freeaway: adrenaline rush and withdrawal?

[freeaway]

How do I edit my signature?

[Kevman2112]

One thing I have found helpful was tracking how I am feeling on a daily basis in an Excel spreadsheet.  I track the intensity of the withdrawal symptoms and the length of time that they last throughout the day.  Using both measures, and weighting more heavily on intensity than time, I create a daily score and visualize it on a line graph.

 

What I have found is interesting.  My symptoms both follow a pattern and are random.  Generally, after a drop, my symptoms improve in the first few days, then increase over the next 5-10 days and then start subside after day 15.  However, there are random spikes that occur that do not follow that pattern.  I think those spikes speak the the natural variability that can occur and as you mentioned can be scary and make you question what’s going on, whether this is the “new normal” and if the approach we took was flawed in some way. 

 

I say that it has been helpful because knowing this helps me get through those spikes.  I think we have a tendency to question our strategy when those spikes occur.  In some cases, the drops may be too quick but I have found that it’s often natural variability.  Understanding that this natural variability occurs has allowed me to not panic during the spikes and up dose or make some long term change.  
 

Alternatively, if I found that the spike was sustained for a longer period of time and not improving, I might reconsider my strategy and perhaps hold for longer than a month.  I would feel more confident that it was not an instance of natural variability but rather my body/brain telling me things are too fast.

[freeaway]

@Altostrata

First, I want to say I am so sorry you have to go through so much suffering which makes my problem like nothing.

I read and watched your videos on how and what you went through and I feel for you. 😥

 

Thank you for your information. When WD was getting bad I was looking for professional psychiatrist during my taper process since my other doctors all ask "hope you are working with proper psychiatrist during this taper"? 

I am left all alone in this and of course no medical or professional can ever help but the world keep asking to find one.

 

@Kevman2112 

I started using something call Neurofeedback from this place called peakbrain which is run by Dr.Andrew Hill. I heard of people who use this and that got over anxiety, seizure, ADD and depression etc.. so I started using it about a month a go and it is a 3 months program. I started to feel better about a month in with my anxiety so I thought I didn't need to track any more of my symptoms which I regret. Depression and low mood was something I didn't really expect to last for days. So right now I am working with peakbrain and trying see if it will get better. I was told that Neurofeedback result are usually towards end of 3 months period. 

Honestly, I was so desperate to find ways or things to ease my pain or suffering from WD since I was afraid to face it myself all alone.

 

I find it amazing that you are brave enough to deal with this and that you are feeling better while using the journal.

I need to learn more on how to journal and how to utilize it. I think there is a section for that in this website.

I feel comfort in this place where I can share and be understood in my unexplainable mind of suffering.

 

Thank you and feel free to share and talk about whatever you feel.

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

On 4/14/2021 at 7:22 AM, freeaway said:

When WD was getting bad I was looking for professional psychiatrist during my taper process since my other doctors all ask "hope you are working with proper psychiatrist during this taper"? 

I am left all alone in this and of course no medical or professional can ever help but the world keep asking to find one.

 

freeway, everyone goes through the same frustration with finding medical help. It's very rare.

 

How are you tapering Pristiq? How are you feeling now?

[freeaway]

Thank you for your precious reply @Altostrata on your bust schedule.

 

My low mood/depression feeling has been subsided and I have learned not to fight against it. I find it easier to accept it and let myself know to trust my body and it is healing process. 

 

 Now I'm on my 36mg with pristiq for about 4 days in. Feeling ok with no severe symptoms only minor anxiety right around the time I'm supposed to take my medication which is 6pm. After I eat dinner and take my magnesium it gets relaxing. 

 

I am strictly going down 10% no matter what and hopefully my brain will know there is no danger to this process and make it less severe.

 

Thank you again for being here for so many people and taking care of everyone. You and other moderators are such blessing.

 

Always in my prayers 🙏❤

 

[Altostrata]

How are you taking a reduced amount of Pristiq? Are you cutting up the tablet?

 

Did you always take it at night?

[freeaway]

I get it from compounding pharmacy.

Thankfully, they make it with extended formula.

I think I posted the pharmacy information in case anyone needed.

 

I always took at night.

Once I found this website I made it routine to take it at same time.

 

 

[Altostrata]

It is possible that even with the extender, your compounded Pristiq does not sustain effect for 24 hours, which is why your symptoms increase before it's time to take it.

 

You may have a bit of interdose withdrawal. After you take your dose, you feel better.

 

If this is tolerable, it's okay for now. If it gets worse as dosage gets lower, you may need to divide your daily dose in two, or switch to Effexor XR.

 

 

[freeaway]

@Altostrata thank you for letting me know. Pristiq usually comes in tablets but these compounding formula comes in capsule. I wonder if that also could make a difference.

 

I also have used ashwagandha and it definitely makes a difference with my symptoms. But I just didn't want to use it everyday if I can tolerate it.

 

I will consider the other options as you recommended if it gets hard or intolerable. 

Thank you again! 😊

 

 

[ChessieCat]

The easiest way to work out if you are experiencing interdose withdrawal is to keep daily symptoms notes for yourself.  There will be a daily pattern of worsening and improving at certain times of the day, corresponding to 'x' number of hours before and after you take the dose.

 

Here is some information which might help:

 

 If you were able to get and take the ingredient of pure desvenlafaxine then the half life is about 11 hours.  To make a Pristiq tablet, the desvenlafaxine is mixed with other ingredients to make a paste / glue (called matrix) which slows down the access to the drug in the tablet. 

 

If you cut a whole Pristiq tablet in half and take the two halves, the half life will be shorter than the ~24 hours.  If you cut the tablet into quarters and take the 4 quarters the half life will be even shorter.  When you crush the tablet finely then you still have the ingredient desvenlafaxine mixed with other ingredients but when you take the powder the other ingredients do not delay the release of the drug so the half life is ~11 hours, the same as if you took pure desvenlafaxine.

[freeaway]

@ChessieCat 

Thank you for the information of pritiq and it's life span. 

I used to have worst symptoms while I was on pristiq itself it was never a cure or treatment. Even though I'm going through WD it is much better than while I was on Pristiq 100mg. I had more panic attacks and anxiety. 

 

Only if I knew all this before I trusted my doctor to prescribe this poison. 

But, I'm trying to forgive him to truly heal and live on.

 

Thank you again for your precious time @ChessieCat praying and hoping for your health and healing.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Side effects and withdrawal symptoms are 2 different things.

 

Side effects are unwanted effects from taking a drug.  Generally the severity of side effects is related to the dose so when the dose is reduced the side effects tend to lessen.

 

Withdrawal symptoms can happen when the drug is reduced too quickly.  This is because the brain has adapted to getting a set amount of the drug every day.  The brain is always trying to regain homeostasis, or balance things out.  So when we take less of the drug the brain gets busy to trying to work things out.  That is why the larger the reduction the more and/or more intense withdrawal symptoms can be experienced because the brain has more work to do trying to balance things out. 

 

Check out the following:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

[freeaway]

Oh, I see the difference there.

That pdf list is great. I can definitely use it. It's crazy how many symptoms there are on the list. My heart really goes out to others that are going through these.

 

Well thank you @ChessieCat ❤ 

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

You are welcome.

 

There are computer and month at a time printable versions here which are based on the Glenmullen list:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

[freeaway]

I will be using this PDF starting tomorrow. Thank you @ChessieCat 

[Altostrata]

Read this.

On 12/24/2020 at 5:10 AM, Shep said:

Tips for tapering off desvenlafaxine (Pristiq)

 

 

[freeaway]

Thank you @Altostrata 😊

Thank you for saving everyone that are in desperate need like me. 

 

Wish more people could see this site before they decide to go on medication. 

 

Even though I never met any of you @Altostrata @Shep @ChessieCat

I can't thank you enough for providing all the helpful information.

Sending love and appreciation your way. 

[Altostrata]

Thank you!

[freeaway]

@Altostrata @Shep @ChessieCat

Not urgent but I'm having my usual seasonal allergy. I get runny itchy nose and teary eyes ever spring.

Is it safe to take allergy medicine? 

I thought I read it somewhere that certain allergy medication could cause drug interactions with antidepressants.

Just wondering if anyone knows.

 

I'm pretty sure I have taken it couple years ago but that's when I didn't really know about drug interactions. 

I have tried Google searching but not a clear answer.

 

[Altostrata]

Please use search in the Symptoms and Self-Care forum for discussions about allergy treatment.

[freeaway]

Thank you! 😃 

[Kevman2112]

@freeaway how have you been doing with your taper?

[freeaway]

@Kevman2112 hiiii

I'm doing pretty good. 

I think my slow taper and neurofeedback really helped.

I don't have multiple panic attacks anymore. I think it's the time of my window.

I'm pretty sure when the waves come I'll feel anxious and depressed again.

I've noticed it's around my female monthly time it gets intense.

 

But, I'm preparing and taking care of myself better than ever. I have learned so much from this website which really saved my life.

 

I should definitely add exercise too.

I'm starting 32.4mg starting today.

 

How are you????? Are you feeling and doing ok? 

 

[Kevman2112]

Happy to hear you are doing well!  I need to add exercise as well! Glad to hear that slowing down the taper helped as well as the neurofeedback.  I might have to try that myself.  
 

I have had a wave over the last week preceded by a window.  As everyone mentions, it’s discouraging and feels like I’ve always felt that way and that it’s endless.  I am on 12.5mg now, two quarters of a 25, one in the morning and one in the afternoon.  It’s been difficult to get a consistent dose as I’ve gone lower and think that will only continue.

 

Hang in there, we’ll make it!

[freeaway]

I know those waves are difficult to deal with. I started feel these depression which I never felt before even before I started the medication. I hated it so much and felt like I was going to be stuck in that mood forever. I now really understand how much people suffer with depression now. 

 

I'm sorry you are feeling these sensation as well. But the time frame of window does get longer as our brain heal. 

Hang in there @Kevman2112 too

And keep me posted! 

 

Sending you best luck and prayers for your healing.

[freeaway]

@Shep @Altostrata @ChessieCat

This is really odd and concerning I have to ask. 

I have been doing my 10% decrease and I had anxiety, depressive mood and panic attacks which had subsided.

 

Recently about 5 days ago I started having insomnia and feeling hot flashes.

 

Can withdrawal suddenly change like this? I know sleep is crucial for anxiety and mood so am I supposed to increase dose? I take magnesium at night so that relaxes me but I feel so wide awake as soon as i hit the bed.

 

[Shep]

freeaway, any chance the hot flashes may be hormonal, such as peri-menopause? If not, it could be withdrawal-related. Please see:

 

Body temperature dysregulation: fever, chills, shivering, too hot, too cold, flashes, flushes

 

6 hours ago, freeaway said:

Recently about 5 days ago I started having insomnia and feeling hot flashes.

 

Since you reduced on May 13, these new symptoms started May 30, which was 17 days after the reduction. So far in your taper, are you finding any patterns in your symptoms after your reductions? 

 

Your reduction was 10%, so you may want to slow down and do a micro-taper. 

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases
Decreasing your dosage by very tiny amounts more often might be more tolerable than 5% or 10% decreases. Know your symptom pattern first so you can estimate how often you can reduce.

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

If you decide to increase, you may want to only go back up to around 34 mg or so. I wouldn't go all the way back up to 36 mg since it's been 17 days since your last reduction and your nervous system likely has started to adapt to that lower dose. Increasing too much could cause more symptoms. Please note it takes 4 days for your nervous system to register a change in dose and a few weeks to completely adapt. to it. 

[freeaway]

Thank you for your reply I truly appreciate it. 

 

Everytime ive tried to fall asleep a surge of rush to my brain will occur and wake me back up.

This will repeat few times before I fall asleep. Has anyone experience this. 

 

Maybe with pristiq I might need to micro taper. There were wd such as anxiety and mood issues plus the panic attacks but it wasn't so difficult to tolerate or maybe I just fought it through.

But insomnia and other body sensation such as hot flashes (not menopause) and sudden nervousness at night is difficult. I was doing so great until few days back when insomnia suddenly hit.

 

I'm supposed to start my next cut in few days but I guess not. I'll hold at current dosage and if I continue to have this insomnia I'll go back up 32mg. 

 

I can't believe how much problem and dysfunction antidepressants can cause to our body. I'm so worried of my future in this journey.

Most devastating part is what if my brain is so damaged or im just genetically so anxious I'll need to be medicated. I always had anxiety but this wd is adding tremendous pain and suffering.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rusty1]

2 hours ago, freeaway said:

Most devastating part is what if my brain is so damaged or im just genetically so anxious I'll need to be medicated. I always had anxiety but this wd is adding tremendous pain and suffering.

Withdrawal intensifies both.  As you decrease dosage it has less affect on the symptoms you took it for, so you will see an increase in that anxiety.  But our CNS is also becoming sensitive so it can increase anxiety outside of a return of original symptoms.  It can be very hard to discern between the two.

 

I can say that when my CNS was at its most unstable from withdrawal my anxiety was off the charts.  I had never experienced anything close to it before.

Now since my CNS is in the best spot is nearly 8-9 years I can say my anxiety is significantly less than it was during withdrawal.

[freeaway]

@Rusty1 thank you for your reply. 

Did you do anything for your anxiety during your taper? 

 

I went through horrible panic and anxiety previously which now I know it was due to sudden cut and change of meditation.

 

I just saw course conference of mad in America about withdrawal and it sounds pretty devastating for people who were given these meds. 

[Rusty1]

2 minutes ago, freeaway said:

@Rusty1 thank you for your reply. 

Did you do anything for your anxiety during your taper? 

 

I went through horrible panic and anxiety previously which now I know it was due to sudden cut and change of meditation.

 

I just saw course conference of mad in America about withdrawal and it sounds pretty devastating for people who were given these meds. 

To help manage my anxiety I did several things.  They worked to varying degrees.  None got rid of my anxiety, all were forms to help manage it.

 

I did not take any supplements.  I became very intolerant to adding anything.  Some others on this site have had success with various supplements.  I wouldn't expect them to be miracle cures, but may help take some edge of.

 

What I found worked:

- Going to a therapist.  I intentionally did not seek out a psychiatrist, but saw psychologists and therapists.  None ever understood my withdrawal or could provide tapering advice, but all were understanding and a place to talk about how difficult it was and work on coping techniques.

- I had some books I would read through regarding how our mind works with thoughts and feelings.  I tend to be a logical thinker first and emotional thinker second.  This gave me the explanation to how our minds pick and choose thoughts constantly and it is random.  For me it helped put me at ease not to become so invested in all my anxiety.  What I would notice is my anxiety would kick up and be a 10/10 and I felt like I needed to address it right away.  If I fell into that trap it would either start expanding out or go away and come right back.  When I learned the ability to sit and watch it and not react it would slowly start to taper away and give me longer periods between intense anxiety.

- Right in line the the therapist and books, something that is free and more beneficial because you can do it anytime was meditations and relaxation techniques.  There are apps or audio programs online.  I had links and audio files stored on my phone so I could do these anytime I felt I need a 5-10 minute break to really calm myself down.  You become better with these over time.  It got to where I could do one and start to feel drowsy and almost fall asleep.  That was quite refreshing from how hyperaware we can feel in the midst of intense anxiety.

- Even if I didn't feel like it I tried to make sure I went for walks and sat in the sun.  Not sure I felt an immediate reduction.  But there was something calming about the connection between myself and the earth. 

- Sleep can be hard to come by, but I never felt guilty about sleeping in.  You need to try and get it where you can.

- Stayed away from alcohol, limited sugars, and anything else dietary that could increase anxiety.

- Drank teas.  There were definitely some calming effects in different teas.

- Held for my next drop a little longer if I felt I needed a little extra time.

 

As you already know there isn't a magic cure to make this go away.  We are all trying to find coping techniques to manage this the best we can.  These were things I tried to varying success.  I would say they all helped me reduce symptoms for a short period of time.  But I feel in withdrawal that is what we are doing, it feels like we are living on a second by second basis just trying to make it through the next second, minute, hour, day.  It all feels so overwhelming.  I know it is hard from where you are at now, but keep trying your best to do a slow and steady taper and it may not seem like it now, but you will come out the other side in a better place.

I went 2 years without a window and life felt like an absolute torture.  I have now been in a window for over 2 years and only a couple weeks of that in waves.  We aren't guaranteed anything, this may all change for me tomorrow, but I am now finally to the point where I am hopeful I will only feel better and better because that is what is seemingly playing out.

You will get there too.

 

[freeaway]

@Rusty1 Thank you so much for your tips and guideline. 

Yes, I do agree this anxiety won't disappear and be completely gone.

I am learning more about it now more than ever.

It is extremely hard at times to deal with this and having to move on but glad for this website and help from peers who knows the struggle. 

Thank you again and best luck to you on your healing as well.

 

 

 

[freeaway]

@Altostrata @Shep @brassmonkey

Question, this is one thing that really makes me curious and hope maybe I can get an answer.

We know that being on this AD med is toxic to our brain/body but while we are tapering off in such long period of time who knows how long it will take for me, is it safe to drag it this long? Or does the risk of fast taper out weight the extra few years of tapering? I hope my question is not confusing. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Yes, it's safe. As the dosage goes lower, adverse effects decrease.

 

At what dosage did you start to get these symptoms? You might want to hold on tapering for a while. People often have to take breaks, to allow the brain and body to consolidate adjustments. Then you can taper again.

[freeaway]

Hi @Altostrata, I am currently on 32.4mg and you are right I am going to hold for now I was supposed to lower to 29.16 next week but I need to stop.

I have been coming down since last July without holding so my nerves system is out of it.

 

My insomnia started about a week ago and I also stopped my vitamins as well from finding out b complex plays a role in cause of sleep disturbance and insomnia which I didn't know  until today. I also feel like these supplement might be causing more harm than good unless I have deficiency. I might be falling into wrong trap of these marketing for need of supplements just like antidepressants.

[Altostrata]

Very possible you need a rest from tapering. Good job getting down to 32.4mg with steady reductions, and listening to your body so you knew when to stop.

 

How are you taking 32.4mg Pristiq? Please note the form in your signature.