Nosummer: So terrified, Need Advice

[Nosummer]

My withdrawal journey started this September. After a severe depressive episode, a psychiatrist proscribed me 300mg per day of Bupropion. After three days I had horrible tinnitus. She told me to stop. I did, but she just wanted to put me on another drug of the same class. We ended up parting ways because she wouldn’t work with someone hesitant to take drugs. 
 

The next psychiatrist surmised the tinnitus was due to the Bupropion I was given, and the 80mg of Fluoxetine I was already taking, having a bad reaction. He had me taper off the Fluoxetine in a week (80 on Monday, 40 Tuesday, 20 Wednesday, nothing Thursday and my last 20 on Friday). 
 

I was okay for a long time. Actually, I felt great, better than in years.

Six weeks after that I began getting constant dizziness that continues to this day (five weeks later). My head has these “shivers” inside it when I lay down. I have horrible mood swings, irritability, anger (with no cause), I cry every night, I have suicidal ideation, I’m perpetually anxious and binge eating. And I also have no idea if this is withdrawal or not. My doctor says it isn’t. An ENT says it’s vestibular migraines.

 

Has anyone experienced symptoms of withdrawal that started six weeks after stopping the medication? Can withdrawal cause unceasing dizziness that sometimes gets worse when I look left or right or move my head?

 

I don’t know what’s a symptom of what anymore and I’m scared. No psych I’ve contacted seems to know anything about this and won’t help. I don’t know if I should go back on the Fluoxetine and taper more slowly? I’ve heard that can really spike tinnitus. Has anyone got experience with this?

 

I just don’t know what to do anymore. I’m miserable, with no end in sight. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Nosummer,  And welcome. 

 

So you had been on the fluoxetine 80 mg since 2015?

And then the bupropion added in September I see.

 

And yes, it does sound like you had a drug interaction, leading to adverse effects.

 

I just plugged your previous combination in at Drugs.com/Interaction checker, and you may want to take a look too.

https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=440-0,1115-648,703-0

^ is an excellent site for checking interactions, as well as for checking on any drug prescribed before taking it

 

And it does sound pretty awful.  You might want to report psychiatrist # one there, once you feel stable enough to do so.

Filing a complaint about your doctor

 

On 12/22/2020 at 5:23 PM, Nosummer said:

I was okay for a long time. Actually, I felt great, better than in years.

Six weeks after that I began getting constant dizziness that continues to this day (five weeks later). My head has these “shivers” inside it when I lay down. I have horrible mood swings, irritability, anger (with no cause), I cry every night, I have suicidal ideation, I’m perpetually anxious and binge eating. And I also have no idea if this is withdrawal or not. My doctor says it isn’t. An ENT says it’s vestibular migraines.

 

Has anyone experienced symptoms of withdrawal that started six weeks after stopping the medication? Can withdrawal cause unceasing dizziness that sometimes gets worse when I look left or right or move my head?

 

And then due to Prozacs long half life, after that fast taper,  it may have taken longer for WD(withdrawal) symptoms to appear.

Although, we do often see those with fast tapers, off other AD's(antidepressants), with shorter half lives, have a delay in WD symptoms too.

 

How long have you been taking the increased dose of clonazepam now?  It looks like you had to quadruple the dose, since this drug mishap.

What time(s) do you take your 1 mg doses each day?

 

You might want to consider a small reinstatement of fluoxetine.

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

According to what medicine knows about psychiatric drug withdrawal syndrome, reinstatement is the only way to alleviate withdrawal symptoms.

Reinstatement is best done immediately upon appearance of withdrawal symptoms. The more time that passes, the less likely it is to work.

 

And so you are 2 months off of the fluoxetine, with symptoms for about 5 weeks.  You may benefit from a small reinstatement of fluoxetine.

 

And then, we have members just start with reinstatement doses of much, much less, than any of the doses that you had been taking.  Do take a good look at the first post in the reinstatement topic, and see what you think.

 

Do you have any fluoxetine left?  Then generally after a reinstatement, if it's helpful.........and it may take a week or two or longer, to see if it helps, then you would do a 10% taper after at least several months of better stability.

Tips for tapering off Prozac(fluoxetine)

^ this will give you more information about fluoxetine, as how to get the smaller doses needed for reinstatement, or tapering.

 

We do also encourage lot's of non-drug coping, as well.  Do see the Symptoms and Self care forum, when you get a chance, too.  Take a look at some of the top pinned topics.

 

So yes, many members with WD symptoms starting 6 weeks after stopping the medication.

And yes, that dizziness that sometimes gets worse when with head movement, most likely is WD as well.

 

Dizziness, vertigo, light-headedness, rocking or swaying sensations

Dr Glenmulllen's withdrawal symptom checklist

 

 

We generally take a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.  And base each taper, from the previous dosage, at 10% or less

*Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur. 

 

 

*What is withdrawal syndrome.

Brain Remodelling

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

This is your introduction/journal page where you have now introduced yourself to the community, you can ask questions here regarding your specifics, give updates, communicate with members and moderators here,  and just keep a record of your journey.

 

Welcome again.  And best for the Holidays!

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

moderator manymoretodays(mmt)

 

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by manymoretodays
clarity

[Nosummer]

8 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi Nosummer,  And welcome. 

Hi. Thank you for your kind welcome.
 

8 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

I just plugged your previous combination in at Drugs.com/Interaction checker, and you may want to take a look too.

I hate myself sometimes for not doing that when I was prescribed the Bupropion. Usually I do all kinds of research, but so was in such a bad state.

 

8 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Do you have any fluoxetine left?  Then generally after a reinstatement, if it's helpful.........and it may take a week or two or longer, to see if it helps, then you would do a 10% taper after at least several months of better stability.

I do have some left. I’m scared though that it won’t help and that it will cause an increase in my tinnitus. I wish more doctors would help us with this stuff. Research it. 
 

Thank you again for welcoming me to your community and for all the resources you’ve linked for me in your post. I really appreciate it. I’ve been lost for a long time.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Nosummer,

I am going to further confer on the reinstatement, and dose for that.  And sometimes it's surprising, how much just a little reinstatement dose can help.  I'm not sure if it would help with the tinnitus and dizziness, but might help with some of the intensity of those symptoms, as well as the neuroemotions.

I'm estimating that you came off the fluoxetine completely on or around October 23 or 24 th.  That would be the date(s) of the end of the week of October 20th.

So about 2 months off now?

 

Meantime,

22 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

How long have you been taking the increased dose of clonazepam now?  It looks like you had to quadruple the dose, since this drug mishap.

What time(s) do you take your 1 mg doses each day?

 

And go easy on yourself now too.  Most of us arrive here, how we arrive here.......and did not know to check.  And were also trusting of doctor(s).  So no need to beat oneself up.  Most of us get it, completely. 

 

If you could do a simple list, for 24 hours, that will help us, and likely you will benefit as well.  With the times noted on the left, and then on the right note your clonazepam by name and dose, and any other drug(s) or supplements(name and dose).  Keep going with times on the left, and then also note on the right hand side, symptoms as they occur throughout the day, activities, sleep, etc.  Keep daily notes of drug schedules and symptoms to track patterns and progress

And you'll see a further explanation ^, right in the first post.

 

Holly jolly day for you today!  I hope it is tolerable and peaceful for you.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Nosummer]

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

I am going to further confer on the reinstatement, and dose for that.  And sometimes it's surprising, how much just a little reinstatement dose can help.

Thank you so much. I did start reinstatement last night in desperation (I pulled open a 40mg capsule and took 10mgs as best I could estimate.) 

 

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

I'm estimating that you came off the fluoxetine completely on or around October 23 or 24 th.  That would be the date(s) of the end of the week of October 20th.

So about 2 months off now?

Yes. Off for two months, symptoms of withdrawal started at one month ago. I started the increased dose of Clonazepam about a week and a half ago. I take one pill in the morning (8:00 AM ish) and one at night (11:00 PM ish)

 

I’ve started writing my list for today and will update it as the day goes on. (Side note: I could barely get out of bed yesterday but today the symptoms of the dizziness are better at least, not sure if that’s due to the 10mgs of Fluoxetine reinstated or the Prednisone I’m on from the ENT which so also started yesterday. So hard to tell what symptoms are caused by what)
 

12/25/20 - 24 List

 

(Times are later in the day than usual as I got up late today after not sleeping last night - was able to get to sleep but tossed and turned and woke up for seconds at a time at least twenty times)

 

(Times are based off my pill tracking app to make sure they’re accurate)

 

11:25 AM - Prednisone (40mg) - feeling only slightly dizzy as opposed to yesterday when the dizziness kept me bedridden, tinnitus seems to have slightly worsened in right ear, or I’m more sensitive to it because I’m worried about it

11:26 AM - Clonazepam (1mg) 

11:26 AM - Aurovela Fe 1.5/30 (1 pill) 

11:27 AM - Nature’s Bounty Fish Oil (360mg) 

11:27 AM - NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine) (600mg) - Taking for tinnitus 

 

[manymoretodays]

And ho, ho, hold on Nosummer,

I think that less is going to most definitely be more at this point in time.

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple, slow, and stable

 

At most, with the fluoxetine reinstatement dose, I was only going to suggest a 1 mg dose.

And if you refer back to the tapering link for fluoxetine, it will give you different options too, as to how to get a nice low dose like that.  Liquid is nice and easy.

And then it's always important to stick with the same time, same dose, everyday consistently for awhile as well.

 

Did you always take it at night?

 

And then how long on the NAC?

N-acetylcysteine(NAC)

 

We really don't recommend any other supplements for WD here, with the exception of Fish Oil(Omega 3's) and Magnesium.  I did not mention those in my first post, as I did want to get an idea of where you were at with the clonazepam and other first.

Please see:  Important topics about tests, supplements, treatments, and diet

And then:

BASIC SUPPLEMENT TOOLKIT

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

And then, as outlined in the 3KI's post, always best to just start one new addition at a time, at a low dose, and go slow.  That way one can better tell what might be doing what.

 

55 minutes ago, Nosummer said:

Yes. Off for two months, symptoms of withdrawal started at one month ago. I started the increased dose of Clonazepam about a week and a half ago. I take one pill in the morning (8:00 AM ish) and one at night (11:00 PM ish)

 

Were you taking the clonazepam regularly prior to a week and a half ago?  And as you may know, it only takes about 2 weeks to develop a dependency on a benzo.  And then I also wonder just how the clonazepam is affecting your symptoms too.

 

Great start on notes!  Thank you.  Do your best next,to get a whole 24 hour segment posted at once.

 

And then on prednisone:  Steroid risk? Prednisone, prednisolone, etc.

This possibly could backfire, go paradoxical, and/or likely that you are a bit hypersensitive now, in WD, and so oh boy.......I'd go easy, or hold off on this now, if I were you.  I would.

49 minutes ago, Nosummer said:

but today the symptoms of the dizziness are better at least, not sure if that’s due to the 10mgs of Fluoxetine reinstated or the Prednisone I’m on from the ENT which so also started yesterday.

 

And then ^.  Yes, adding multiple things now, is going to make it nearly impossible to know what is doing what.

 

And very glad to hear of some improvement already!  Super.

And then, yes, add your notes, when you get the rest in there.  And do check back, as I have asked the other moderators to take a look at your stuff too.

My turkey smells lovely, and my heart is quite joyful today.......sending healing to all!

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Nosummer]

5 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

At most, with the fluoxetine reinstatement dose, I was only going to suggest a 1 mg dose.

And if you refer back to the tapering link for fluoxetine, it will give you different options too, as to how to get a nice low dose like that.  Liquid is nice and easy.

And then it's always important to stick with the same time, same dose, everyday consistently for awhile as well.

I wish I could go to a lower dose, but 40mgs are all I have to work with (they gave me those and told me to take two for the 80 I was on). I’ve contacted so many psychiatrists in my area and none will prescribe me Prozac unless it’s at my previous dose. The answer I get is that if I need the medicine again I need my dose and if that’s not good enough I need to be on something else (which I do not want to do). I’m on my own here. (Besides you guys - thank you so much I really appreciate and need it - and family, but no doctor support.)
 

I also don’t know how to approach these doctors saying I want to switch to the liquid form - because won’t they ask why and if I tell them they’ll just try to bully me into a new medication saying I clearly need something new. 
 

Before I saw this I took my second 10mg dose. So I probably have to taper from that now anyway right? Because going CT on 10 might give me bad withdrawal symptoms again? Or if I can find a way to get liquid Prozac can I go to 1mg or something lower than 10?

 

5 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

We really don't recommend any other supplements for WD here, with the exception of Fish Oil(Omega 3's) and Magnesium. 

I wish I could be on less but my ENT insists on these other ones for four weeks to rule out vestibular migraines and other causes as the source of my troubles (I really believe it’s withdrawal but I’m scared to stop his treatment just in case)

 

5 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

And then how long on the NAC?

N-acetylcysteine(NAC)

I’ve been on the NAC for three months, since the month after the tinnitus started. It’s also said anecdotally to protect the ears from damage from meds like SSRIs and because my tinnitus bothers me so much already I feel safer staying on the NAC on the off chance it will prevent the Fluoxetine from making my tinnitus worse. 
 

5 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Were you taking the clonazepam regularly prior to a week and a half ago?

I’ve been on Clonazepam for five years. I was on a 0.5mg dose - to take one in the morning and one at night and one as needed (so I often took three making it 1.5mg for the day). I started on the higher dose when my dizziness got worse because the ENT thought that it might help calm the dizziness down if it’s a vestibular issue. 

 

5 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

This possibly could backfire, go paradoxical, and/or likely that you are a bit hypersensitive now, in WD, and so oh boy.......I'd go easy, or hold off on this now, if I were you.  I would.

That worries me. But if the dizziness is due to certain vestibular issues and I don’t lower the inflammation I could go deaf or have permanent dizziness (as you can imagine in my state that flipped me out) so I took the Prednisone without question and now I need to finish the course.

 

So far I don’t feel any worse and I actually felt better this morning so that’s good. I’m doing worse now but still not as bad as yesterday.
 

Here is the list continued: (next post, don’t know why the two posts broke up from one post) It’s a lot and I’m aware it’s not great, but I’m just terrified I’ll cut something out and then find out that my symptoms were a combo of withdrawal and another medical issue and I quit my other medical issue support out. 
 

Note: everyone else reading listen to @manymoretodays and use me as a cautionary never want to go there example. 😭

[Nosummer]

6 hours ago, Nosummer said:

11:25 AM - Prednisone (40mg) - feeling only slightly dizzy as opposed to yesterday when the dizziness kept me bedridden, tinnitus seems to have slightly worsened in right ear, or I’m more sensitive to it because I’m worried about it

11:26 AM - Clonazepam (1mg) 

11:26 AM - Aurovela Fe 1.5/30 (1 pill) 

11:27 AM - Nature’s Bounty Fish Oil (360mg) 

11:27 AM - NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine) (600mg) - Taking for tinnitus 

5:25 PM - Fluoxetine (~10mg) - moving it up slowly throughout the day to get back to taking it in the morning. I honestly took it late last night because I was doing so badly and I just wanted the symptoms to stop. I think I kind of snapped.

5:25 PM - Nature’s Bounty Fish Oil (360mg) - second pill of the day

5:26 PM - Riboflavin (100mg)

5:27 PM - Ginkgo Biloba (Tebonin Formula) (120mg) - For my tinnitus. I think it’s been slowly helping so I want to stay on it. No adverse effects from adding it, I already had all my symptoms when I put it in rotation

5:27 PM - Magnesium (244mg)

6:19 PM - Butterbur (300mg)

6:20 PM - Lucid Hearing Vitamins (2 pills) - Again for tinnitus (includes Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Vitamin B6, Folate, Vitamin B12, Magnesium, Zinc and Ginkgo biloba) - I’ve been on these since the ringing tinnitus started and when I stopped them things got worse, so I think the combo is important for my tinnitus health rotation - I’m kind of treating at least two things here because I had the tinnitus before ever going off the Prozac so I’m treating tinnitus and withdrawal at least.) 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, NoSummer.

 

On 12/22/2020 at 4:23 PM, Nosummer said:

Has anyone experienced symptoms of withdrawal that started six weeks after stopping the medication? Can withdrawal cause unceasing dizziness that sometimes gets worse when I look left or right or move my head?

 

This delay in withdrawal symptoms seems fairly common with Prozac. The dizziness is a common withdrawal symptom; looking left or right often brings on odd sensations, such as "brain zaps".

 

How many times have you taken 10mg Prozac this time around? How are you feeling?

 

It will take a week or so for the 10mg Prozac to fully take effect. If it should start to feel too strong, you may wish to reduce it to 5mg or less. Fluoxetine comes in a prescription liquid for easy titration, or you can make your own liquid, as described in Tips for tapering off Prozac(fluoxetine)

 

Any doctor can prescribe these drugs, it doesn't have to be a psychiatrist.

 

Please post your daily notes 24 hours at a time.

[Nosummer]

28 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

How many times have you taken 10mg Prozac this time around? How are you feeling?

Hi. Thank you for your reply. I’ve taken 10mg twice, today and yesterday. The dizziness was somewhat better today but I think the tinnitus is worse. 
 

Currently my GP won’t prescribe these kinds of meds (I asked), my ENT won’t because he doesn’t think it’s withdrawal and my psych is the same as my ENT. I still haven’t given up looking for a doctor to help me though. 

[Nosummer]

This is the last of today’s meds (I’m listing them now because I’ll probably go right to bed after I take them).
 

27 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Please post your daily notes 24 hours at a time.

Not sure what you mean here. Should I use a different time schedule? This is my long list for one 24hr day (I tried making it one post but it kept breaking up).

11:00 PM - Nature’s Bounty Fish Oil (360mg) 

11:00 PM - Clonazepam (1mg) 

11:00 PM - Magnesium (144mg)

[Altostrata]

Tinnitus is a known adverse effect of SSRIs and bupropion; the combination, as you have found, can trigger tinnitus.

 

You were on a very high dose of both Prozac and bupropion. Your doctor was remiss in not checking drug-drug interactions.

 

Once you have an adverse reaction to psychiatric drugs, your nervous system can be sensitized to other drugs and even supplements. (Alcohol in particular may cause a bad reaction.) Even though you were fine with a much higher dose of Prozac, 10mg may be too much for you now.

 

If 10mg Prozac is exacerbating tinnitus already, you may wish to take less. I am perplexed why your doctors won't help you with this. If I were you, I'd fire all of them and let them know why.

 

It's possible you can find a GP who will prescribe the liquid for you, but if you have no other options, you can make your own liquid, as described in Tips for tapering off Prozac(fluoxetine) We have many people here who have done this. The reason this site exists is because people are finding so little understanding from doctors.

 

 

 

[Nosummer]

I just purchased a milligram scale for precise measurements. I think that will help. And @Altostrata I think you’re right. I think the 10mg dose is too high and I need to start lower.
 

Is it okay to still take @manymoretodays advice and do 1mg and work from there, or have I ruined that option by jumping back on to 10mg?
 

5 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

It's possible you can find a GP who will prescribe the liquid for you, but if you have no other options, you can make your own liquid, as described in Tips for tapering off Prozac(fluoxetine) We have many people here who have done this. The reason this site exists is because people are finding so little understanding from doctors.

I’ll definitely read into this. Thank you so much. 

[Nosummer]

9 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Once you have an adverse reaction to psychiatric drugs, your nervous system can be sensitized to other drugs and even supplements.

Do we ever desensitize again as we heal or is this a permanent alteration to our brains? 

[Altostrata]

The sensitization gradually goes away if you don't do something to rile it up.

[Nosummer]

4 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

The sensitization gradually goes away if you don't do something to rile it up.

Thank you. That gives me so much hope you have no idea.

[manymoretodays]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

If it should start to feel too strong, you may wish to reduce it to 5mg or less.

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

If 10mg Prozac is exacerbating tinnitus already, you may wish to take less. I am perplexed why your doctors won't help you with this. If I were you, I'd fire all of them and let them know why.

 

Hi Nosummer.

Yes, many do make their own liquid too, if that is your only option.

You can scroll down to "Making your own liquid" in the Tapering Prozac topic to read more.

And then further helps:

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

 

Best to protect your liquid from light and store in the refrigerator as well.  You could mix in a container with a lid.  And if you have an amber colored glass bottle or jar, that's ideal.  I did liquid with another medication and used a plastic urine cup with a lid and then protected it from light in the refrigerator, by putting it in a brown paper bag.  Apparently, the liquid is good for 14 days, with Prozac.  I might, if it were me though, discard any remaining after 7 days or a weeks time.

 

I think it would be okay to go to 5 mg next, and continue observations, and NOTES as well.  Those are great.  A ton of supplements, that I need to look at further.  And then get some more of your symptoms in there too, over to the right of the times.  Good and bad.  That will all be really helpful.  Of course, the lower the reinstatement, the less you'll have to taper down from too, later on. 

 

So for now though, let's just take it day by day.

 

And oh, thank you Alto, for your input, as always. 

 

And keep updating Nosummer.  You are doing great!  Thank you for attending to questions so promptly and for getting going with the Notes too.

 

Merry Christmas!

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited December 26, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Nosummer]

Thank you so much @manymoretodays for the info about making liquid. Until I find a doctor to help me I think making my own doses is what I need to do.
 

19 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

I think it would be okay to go to 5 mg next, and continue observations, and NOTES as well. 

 

I’m thinking 2.5mg next if I can stand it just because of my fear about the tinnitus and stirring that up too much. It was really loud late last night after my last post. 
 

19 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

A ton of supplements, that I need to look at further.  And then get some more of your symptoms in there too, over to the right of the times.  Good and bad.  That will all be really helpful.  Of course, the lower the reinstatement, the less you'll have to taper down from too, later on. 

Today’s 24hr list mirrors/will continue to mirror yesterday’s except for moving the Fluoxetine dose down to 2.5mg.

 

Below are my symptoms:

 

11:00 AM - Woke up late again. Had another night of “micro” wake ups where I wake up, go back to sleep and wake up again about twenty to thirty times so I don’t ever get really to sleep. After that stopped I got overheated and woke up nauseous. I had to take all my covers off and cool down before that symptom eased and I finally got real sleep. The tinnitus was louder last night than I’m used to in a long time which put my anxiety and depression into overdrive.

 

This morning the tinnitus was better but not back to where it was before reinstating the Fluoxetine. The dizziness was the same as yesterday morning. Not great but not nearly as bad as it was. I went back to bed because with this level of dizziness I can’t do anything but stare at walls, read (as long as it’s on my phone so I don’t have to move my eyes back and forth so far), watch maybe an 1 or 2 hrs of TV which I hate doing in the morning and sleep (I binge ate “breakfast” before

going back to bed).
 

4:00 PM - Dizziness is increasing as the day gets later, just the same as yesterday. I binge ate again. I also have lightheadedness and pain in my left ear. I’m less stable on my feet and eye movement is more sensitive. I’m also getting these short 10 second periods where the hearing in my right ear cuts out (along with the tinnitus). This has been happening since the tinnitus started but had stopped before when the dizziness started. Now I have both. I’m also more listless and hopeless. I keep thinking there’s no light in my future. This dizziness-enforced bed rest seems like it will never end and the increase in my tinnitus plus the old ear symptoms like losing my hearing for seconds at a time is wearing me down. 
 

Last Night (after my last post) - I thought I’d check in about symptoms that come in later at night (like last night) that I didn’t record yesterday as they happened after my last post when I logged off for the night. In general these symptoms happen every night:

- Increasing dizziness (I can usually stay still long enough - which helps mitigate the dizziness - to watch one or two 1hr shows for some variety in my life before I have to give up and go to bed)

- Agitation

- Extreme anxiety and depression

- Crying spells (EVERY NIGHT) (sometimes over something serious like my worry about family and my condition, but sometimes over something I would normally not cry about: random stuff like a commercial on TV)

- I become more unbalanced, not vertigo and not feeling like my feet aren’t stable under me, just wobbly where I walk into stuff like doorknobs and walls. 

- minor headaches

- congestion and sneezing (which has been going on since symptoms started so a month now so I don’t think it’s a cold though could be an infection - doc said if it was the prednisone would take care of it)

- brain “shivers” as soon as I lie in the bed to sleep. They run across my head, sometimes my face and occasionally all the way down to my chest. 
 

So far no out of nowhere anger lately since restarting the Fluoxetine, which is something I was dealing with before. Also my mood swings are much less severe.
 

I am perseverating on all the ways I got to this point though and that’s not good for me I know. 

[Nosummer]

Update: Decided not to take the Fluoxetine today. I’m reading the Antidepressant Solution by Dr. Glenmullen. His book said it’s okay to take Fluoxetine every-other-day because of the long half-life. That should make today technically a 5mg day. Tomorrow I’ll start on the 2.5mg and try to stabilize there. 
 

I’m worried about my tinnitus, and my hearing seems lowered. Not sure if this is my hyper focus on my ears just playing mental games with me or if Fluoxetine reinstatement has really created a problem. 
 

Second Update: Also dealing with severe SI (I’m safe though) and an escalation in depression from what it’s been like the previous week. Tinnitus seems to be a major depressive trigger for me. It’s what’s driving all my thoughts. Having to live with it worse

than it was already. 

[manymoretodays]

1 hour ago, Nosummer said:

Update: Decided not to take the Fluoxetine today. I’m reading the Antidepressant Solution by Dr. Glenmullen. His book said it’s okay to take Fluoxetine every-other-day because of the long half-life. That should make today technically a 5mg day. Tomorrow I’ll start on the 2.5mg and try to stabilize there. 

 

Stay with the daily if you are going to go with the 2.5 mg.

Never skip dose to taper

And ^ is actually in all caps!  I don't know if Dr. Glenmullen has gotten the next edition done  yet, but I am doubtful that will still be in there.  I know you are NOT tapering but reinstating, but the same applies.

 

1 hour ago, Nosummer said:

Second Update: Also dealing with severe SI (I’m safe though) and an escalation in depression from what it’s been like the previous week. Tinnitus seems to be a major depressive trigger for me. It’s what’s driving all my thoughts. Having to live with it worse

than it was already. 

 

Ooooh, Nosummer.  And okay, a definite escalation in depression.  And then what day are you on with the Prednisone now?

But ugh, I'm so sorry. 

 

So if you can, get yesterday and today into brief note forms and post tomorrow.  And again, it is confusing as you've got multiple variables, medications, supplements, all thrown in now.......but we may see a pattern in relation to the Prozac anyway.  Or not.  Which would be great, if it helps, even a little.

 

Nosummer,  I had the vertigo, for a bit, early on........I could not trust myself on ladders and stuff like that.  It disappeared nicely and completely.  The tinnitus will crop up in just short bursts if I allow myself to get stressed too much.  Nothing unmanageable now though.  Not at all. 

 

I'm coming with soup and tissues.......and will be right there. ❤️

 

Just keep on reminding yourself that these are extreme neuroemotions now, nothing to fear, they won't last too long.

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Hoping that sleep comes easy for you tonight.  Music, bath, anything of comfort now.......blankie?  Chocolate?!

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

p.s. none of this is your fault

Edited December 27, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Nosummer]

Staying with the 2.5mg. Seeing if I can stabilize on that or if I need to use more. I won’t skip again. Thank you for letting me know that book is out of date. I had no idea.
 

And thank you for your kindness @manymoretodays, in regards to my emotional state last night. It was bad but didn’t last long just like you said. The information on Neuroemotions and dealing with emotional spirals was very helpful to put things in perspective. I really needed that. 
 

I’m on day four of the Prednisone, so tomorrow I start reducing the cycle and take 30mg instead of 40mg - and so on until 0 and the course is complete. 

 

22 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

So if you can, get yesterday and today into brief note forms and post tomorrow. 

Okay, below are my brief notes of the two last days. 
 

My Notes:

 

Friday: (24hr log)

Approx. 11:00 AM - Prednisone (40mg), Clonazepam (1mg), Aurovela Fe 1.5/30 (1 pill), Fish Oil (360mg), NAC (600mg) - Symptoms: Feeling slightly less dizzy than before; tinnitus might be worsening in right ear.

Approx. 5:00 PM - Fluoxetine (10mg), Fish Oil (360mg), Riboflavin (100mg), Ginkgo Biloba (120mg), Magnesium (244mg), Butterbur (300mg), Lucid Hearing Vitamins (2 pills) - Symptoms: A little dizzier. Binge eating. Tinnitus the same as morning.
Approx. 11:00 PM - Fish Oil (360mg), Clonazepam (1mg), Magnesium (144mg) - Symptoms: Dizziness has increased again. Agitation and extreme irritability. Anxiety and depression. Crying spells. Not steady on my feet. Brain “shivers”. Congestion/sneezing. 
 

Saturday: (24hr log)

Approx. 11:00 AM - Prednisone (40mg), Clonazepam (1mg), Aurovela Fe 1.5/30 (1 pill), Fish Oil (360mg), NAC (600mg) - Symptoms: same dizziness level as yesterday morning, same tinnitus level as well. Binge ate at breakfast. Some fatigue. 

Approx. 5:00 PM - Fluoxetine (10mg), Fish Oil (360mg), Riboflavin (100mg), Ginkgo Biloba (120mg), Magnesium (244mg), Butterbur (300mg), Lucid Hearing Vitamins (2 pills) - Symptoms: A little dizzier again. More binge eating. Tinnitus the same as morning.
Approx. 11:00 PM - Fish Oil (360mg), Clonazepam (1mg), Magnesium (144mg) - Symptoms: Increased dizziness. Agitation and extreme irritability. Anxiety. Huge depressive spell accompanies by SI. Lots of crying. Congestion/sneezing. Mood swings - from depressed to hopeful to blank (sort of numb).
 

22 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Nosummer,  I had the vertigo, for a bit, early on........I could not trust myself on ladders and stuff like that.  It disappeared nicely and completely.  The tinnitus will crop up in just short bursts if I allow myself to get stressed too much.  Nothing unmanageable now though.  Not at all. 

This gives me hope. Thank you so much for sharing with me. Good to know it can get better, even with the tinnitus. 

 

22 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

I'm coming with soup and tissues.......and will be right there. ❤️

You’re the absolute best. Your help and kindness is so invaluable. Thank you. 
 

Sometimes it’s so hard to feel it’s not my fault. Thank you for saying so and reminding me.

 

[Nosummer]

Medication changes: Lowered my Prednisone dose to 30mg. All other medications and supplements stayed the same.

 

Today’s events (in case needed for symptom context): Had to do a meeting today to discharge from an outpatient psych program. My time was up and really they won’t admit withdrawal exists so I’m not finding it helpful right now.

 

Symptoms update: Woke up with sharp, nails-on-chalkboard tinnitus in my right ear (an escalation). Has continued all day.

 

Dizziness was okay upon waking but after an hour was very dizzy. Found myself very agitated and anxious. Irrational anger towards people in the meeting who didn’t deserve it. Was irritated with them and ranted like a loon to my family about how awful everyone was (they are actually kind people). Logged off meeting early and got rest. It helped.

 

Now suffering depression spike. Worried AGAIN the Fluoxetine reinstatement is causing a reaction with the tinnitus that will make the noise worse and be permanent. 

[Nosummer]

Medication changes: Doubled NAC intake to deal with new screeching in my right ear. (600mg to 1200mg a day). 
 

I seem to tolerate the NAC just fine so I’m not worried too much about this increase (not as worried as I am about protecting my ears anyway), but I am monitoring just in case.
 

Symptoms: Irritation, anxiety, mood swings (today from hopeful to depressed and back and forth). Dizziness is the same. Fatigue. Tinnitus. 
 

Went to another ENT who said I might have TMJ. I also have impacted wisdom teeth.  No idea if this will hinder withdrawal recovery. When I get the wisdom teeth out, they’ll probably want to put me on a pain med and I’ll probably need it. Will that cause problems? Has this ever happened to anyone?

[Humanist56]

Hi Nosummer, 

 

I just wanted to say that I hope your tinnitus anxiety and depression gets better. I’m in the throes myself. I agree with you about neuroemotions and emotional spirals. 
 

I have had several bouts over the years with these drug interactions and over sensitized cns problems. I’ve always gotten thru them but I had my aa club and meetings and now I don’t because of COVID. But I won’t give up and know you won’t either. Every time I’ve ever had these issues they’ve always gotten better. 
 
As far as the dentist there is nothing you can do about it, try not to worry about that right now. Wow, great advice huh? 
 

Anyway, wishing you the best.

 

-Humanist

[manymoretodays]

On 12/27/2020 at 6:31 PM, Nosummer said:

Thank you for letting me know that book is out of date. I had no idea.

 

17 hours ago, Nosummer said:

Medication changes: Doubled NAC intake to deal with new screeching in my right ear. (600mg to 1200mg a day). 

 

17 hours ago, Nosummer said:

Went to another ENT who said I might have TMJ. I also have impacted wisdom teeth.  No idea if this will hinder withdrawal recovery. When I get the wisdom teeth out, they’ll probably want to put me on a pain med and I’ll probably need it. Will that cause problems? Has this ever happened to anyone?

 

Hi Nosummer,

I am getting dizzy.....just reading of all of this.  And then trying to figure out when screeching tinnitus occurred.

 

Much good stuff in Dr. Glenmullen's book, but I've heard a new edition is in the works. 

I don't know much more than that.  So check the publishing date.

 

With the notes, get a whole 24 hours in at a time.  I'm seeing just 12 hours, and then big time gaps, and not much in the way of symptoms.  Big changes could also go in there, for example the NAC increase.

How long did the screeching last?

 

AccountSettings/signature should take you to your signature too.  Please note the date of your reinstatement

 

And then on the ENT and TMJ.  All I know is that a dentist once told me, they were surprised that I did not have TMJ........which I thought was weird.  And back then, I don't recall having any symptoms of it.......but I thought for awhile I would start too.

 

With the wisdom teeth and extraction, it might hinder things.  Right now, you are still in the phase of a reinstatement, and barely getting started with it.  I think if you could at least schedule out for a few weeks, if you can, for wisdom teeth extraction, that would be great.

 

I'm not sure, but I may have gotten thrown post root canal with allowing the dentist to use the usual numbing agent with lidocaine in it, last Spring.  I'm going with carbocaine, from here on out.  And then of course, I'm now 4 years out too, from tapering and medications.  I did manage with very little pain medication post root canal.  I think I only needed 1/2 of a Tylenol with Codeine, and then did okay with just Ibuprofen.  That was a root canal though, not a wisdom tooth extraction.

 

To search for topics here:  Using your main browser, just type in survivingantidepressants.org and then the topic of interest.  You'll also get at least a few members experiences too, in Introduction topics that may or may not prove helpful as you make decisions.

 

And then:

Dental sugery, dental medications, tooth discoloration

Surgery and anesthesia

 

Cipro, Levaquin, Azithromycin(Z-pack), and other antibiotics

 

@Humanist56, online AA is everywhere now, since Covid19.  Can you check your local AA to find out how you might find a Zoom meeting?

 

Best Nosummer.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited December 30, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Humanist56]

1 minute ago, manymoretodays said:

online AA is everywhere now, since Covid19.  Can you check your local AA to find out how you might find a Zoom meeting?

@manymoretodays

 

Yes, I'm plugged in to the AA meetings on zoom, 24/7. Right now they just don't help. The online version is not really an appropriate venue to talk about SI and the like. In person I had a home group that was small and I could talk about the more (outside u issue) type of stuff. 

 

Here is the  link for anyone who might want it.  https://aa-intergroup.org/oiaa/meetings/ 

 

But thanks for the mention and thoughts. 

 

-Humanist

[Nosummer]

@Humanist56 Thank you so much for your kind words and support. @manymoretodays I’ll try to get better and learn as I go. Some of this recording stuff still confuses me. 
 

On 12/30/2020 at 2:52 PM, manymoretodays said:

How long did the screeching last?

Still screeching. Makes me even more fragile. 
 

Thank you so much for the links. Still trying to learn to navigate the site. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Nosummer,

 

I know, I know.  It can be helpful though, not only for us to see, but for you as I way of getting to know your own body and reactions around your medications.

I couldn't do more than just answer questions when I got here.  Seriously.

 

I think you'll get it though, and it will help, like I said.  You and us.  Read that first post by Karma in the link.  She's a champion taperer, and quite wise.  It may inspire you.

 

I'm really glad you popped in anyway.  What was the outcome on possible dental stuff/procedures?

And now I am seeing the 1.25 mg Prozac at night, since the 3rd of January?  Have you always taken it at night?  Why?

 

And then, are you keeping it spaced from your clonazepam dose?

Would you check interactions, all current drug interactions at Drugs.com please.  Copy and paste the results here too.  https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=1115-648,703-0

^ I already got it started.

 

Best to keep drugs that interact spaced at least 2 hours apart.

 

How are you doing this week?

 

I get worried about the supplements, Nosummer.......I just do, from my own experiences.  There were some things I was on before tapering, that I didn't quit, most though I reduced.  Some I just quit.  And it does sound like your usage of NAC proceeded your arrival, and you had not experienced difficulties with it.  So , me......if it was me..... I'd go back down with it, if it did not help at all with the screeching.

 

Where are you at with the prednisone?  No help from that either?

 

I mean, it sounds brutal, but maybe time will prove to be the answer.  Can you muffle the ringing and screeching with soft music and ear buds or head phones?

 

And honest to Pete, I've been so busy lately, and still would love to pore through, more, on members behalf.  Meantime, do your best hanging out, getting familiar with the site, making friends, lending support, and learning how to further research and find answers for you, here, on site, or how to further discern the mighty internet information highway.  Of course, we'd prefer you stay here mainly.  ❤️  And keep us updated and all.

 

Kay.  L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited January 8, 2021 by manymoretodays
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