Manati: Effexor-withdrawal - in need of help, please!

[tryingtosurvive330]

Manati, how are you? Sorry I haven’t checked in, I have been feeling lost and scared/isolated. Since you haven’t posted in a few days I hope that means things are a little better for you? I have been thinking of you and hope you are ok. The last few weeks sounded so tough 😞 I’m still not sleeping well but the extreme extreme cortisol spikes are not the same as before. I guess it’s progress. 

[Manati]

On 3/1/2021 at 5:41 AM, tryingtosurvive330 said:

Manati, how are you? Sorry I haven’t checked in, I have been feeling lost and scared/isolated. Since you haven’t posted in a few days I hope that means things are a little better for you? I have been thinking of you and hope you are ok. The last few weeks sounded so tough 😞 I’m still not sleeping well but the extreme extreme cortisol spikes are not the same as before. I guess it’s progress. 

 

 

Tryingtosurvive, thank you so much for your kind message!! ❤️

Don't worry at all - I can totally relate to you feeling lost and scared, I feel the very same!! But I wondered how you were doing, all alone in your house. I worry about you, and really hope that the changes in cortisol spikes are a sign of progress. I keep my fingers crossed! Did you try the Ashwagandha?

I'm basically in the same place I was before - I took some Lyrica to help me sleep, but find it difficult to deal with its side effetcs.. So I've been tapering it slowly - and am back to entirely sleepless nights.

I'm feeling pretty desperate - I can't imagine how my brain may heal without sleep?

Sending you a big hug

!

[tryingtosurvive330]

Manati, I’ve been staying with my mom since early January. I have only slept in my house once since then as I also visited my brother in between. I feel so uneasy and like it’s a waste but I can’t bring myself to think of what else to do. 
 

I suppose I can say the horrible death-like feelings associated with the cortisol spike have lowered, but I’m still waking up several times in the night and always, always at 3 or 4am. For a couple weeks, there was really no anxiety when waking but the last two weeks it’s been creeping back in. Now it’s consumed with anxious thoughts about work and life where before I was just slammed with what felt like pure evil and hell. 
 

I did not try the ashwaganda as I was afraid of taking any supplements. I remember taking it the last time doctors thought I was depressed but that was also just wd (when I started on my lexapro journey). But that time I would take antihistamine, ashwaganda, smoke weed, and take some Xanax at times all together and it was such a bad thing to do. I was desperate. Now I am thoroughly afraid of putting anything in my body. yesterday I did take some magnesium in the afternoon. Not sure if it help but maybe I had deeper sleep? 
 

manati, I brought my “anxiety blanket” with my to my moms house a couple days ago, it is weighted and heavy and feels a tiny bit soothing. I wonder if something like that would help with the shocks and jumpiness you feel. By no means am I doing well in any regard but I seek out any source of comfort. Have started to also leave Netflix on all night at the lowest volume; we are told not to do this but I’m starting to find that just the calming sounds don’t calm me at all, and is almost equivalent to silence. 

If your nights are totally sleepless, have you been getting any naps at all? You were able to exercise and run in the beginning, are you still doing that or working?

[Manati]

On 2/21/2021 at 10:10 PM, Gridley said:

Possibly but I can't say for sure.  If you decide to go off, you could drop by 2mg a week for 4 weeks.  If after 4 days after the first drop your symptoms worsen, stop the taper, hold until you stabilize, and then you'd need to do the 10% every 4 week taper.

 

@Gridley I am currently tapering the Lyrica in the way you suggested, and have now reached the point of not sleeping at all - just like before I introduced it. I'm clueless now - what to do without sleep? Without any drug I'm only sleeping every 3rd or 4th night, and fear losing my sanity over this. How can my brain recover without any sleep? I would love to manage this nightmare with melatonin and ashwagandha alone, but it doesn't seem to work - whenenver I get close to falling asleep, my system 'shocks' me awake.

My doctor suggested trazodone as a sleep aid, but I'm reluctant. As I said I would prefer not to introduce another drug to my system, but don't know how to cope. I realize you will recommend to stay off any drug, but I just wanted to ask - from your experience - which of those medications, Lyrica or Trazodone, are causing more harm in the long run/are more difficult to taper? If I can't cope without medication, at least I'd want to pick the lesser evil?

Thank you for your opinion or any input!!

 

[Manati]

Tryingtosurvive ❤️ I'm so relieved to read that you're staying with your mum! I was often wondering how anyone could possibly manage this horror on their own, and worrying about you. I think it's not a waste at all and the best thing for you right now. Don't stay alone in this nightmare. I'm also happy to hear that you've had the chance to see your brother (and his kids?)! I'm sure this lifted you up a little and gave you some strength! It's the people we love that we have to get through this for..

 

Oh, the death-like feelings, the pure evil and hell you are talking about - I know EXACTLY what you mean. Isnt' it weird how this state induces the same associations for so many of us? I can't even count how many times I've read the word 'hell' in this forum, but to me too - it seems to be the most suitable term describing it. It's just the worst imaginable reality. At least, it's a little comforting that we're not alone in this perception.

 

I think it's a really promising sign that you woke up without the anxiety for weeks - doesn't it show that your brain still 'remembers' a state of 'normal'. I'm sure it's gonna stay like that soon, and you're just going through some 'in between' phase right now.

 

I understand that you're afraid of taking supplements, I actually feel the same about them - it is sheer desperation leading me to trying them... I'm sure the magnesium won't do any harm to you, I've never read about anyone reactly badly to it.

 

It's funny that you mention your anxiety blanket - my boyfriend got me one of those for Xmas!! And I find it does help me a little - I mostly put it over my feet and legs, only sometimes covering my shoulders with it (also depending on outside temperature). I suppose it helps you, too?

I might try and leave the sound switched on on low volume - I used to listen to calming tunes on youtube, but grew sort of tired of that... I also can't bear complete darkness, I have to have a at least a little light switched on.

 

While I was taking the Lyrica, I could sleep for a few hours per night - and it made such a difference!! However, I find it really difficult to deal with its side effects. Also I am just desperate to try it without meds. So I've already tapered off about a third of my dose (only 8mg, so a microdose almost...), and - voilà - insomnia has been waiting for me.

 

I spend many hours per day outside with my dog - in fact, walking in nature is the only thing offering me some comfort right now. One of my worst symptoms, apart from the insomnia, is complete emotional 'numbness'. I's horrible! I was blaming the Lyrica for it, but meanwhile, I tend to think I felt as numb since reinstating the few beads of Venlafaxine! It did block out my anxiety, but possibly also all other feelings. It makes me feel 'unhuman'/robotic: I 'think' my feelings, but can't 'feel' them in my system/body - very hard to describe. Do you know a state like that?? For a usually 'overemotional' person like me, this feels like losing myself entirely! I am even considering tapering of those 3 beads alreay, since I'd rather feel pain/anxiety than nothing at all...

 

I wouldn't be able to work in my current staty - fortunately, the nature of my job allows me to stay in 'Kurzarbeit' (some European salary concept for jobs affected by Corona) for a few more months. I hope and pray I'll be able to work once they've passed!

I was also studying for another degree, and would have graduated in July - but will have to postpone it. This is so frustrating, I feel I've lost 'myself' and everything that made up my life.

 

Sorry for rambling, I'm just starting to lose hope that I'll ever be back to normal.

 

BUT I have a lot of hope for you - I think you are really on the way to recovery!

 

Sending you a big hug!

 

 

 

 

38 minutes ago, tryingtosurvive330 said:

Manati, I’ve been staying with my mom since early January. I have only slept in my house once since then as I also visited my brother in between. I feel so uneasy and like it’s a waste but I can’t bring myself to think of what else to do. 
 

I suppose I can say the horrible death-like feelings associated with the cortisol spike have lowered, but I’m still waking up several times in the night and always, always at 3 or 4am. For a couple weeks, there was really no anxiety when waking but the last two weeks it’s been creeping back in. Now it’s consumed with anxious thoughts about work and life where before I was just slammed with what felt like pure evil and hell. 
 

I did not try the ashwaganda as I was afraid of taking any supplements. I remember taking it the last time doctors thought I was depressed but that was also just wd (when I started on my lexapro journey). But that time I would take antihistamine, ashwaganda, smoke weed, and take some Xanax at times all together and it was such a bad thing to do. I was desperate. Now I am thoroughly afraid of putting anything in my body. yesterday I did take some magnesium in the afternoon. Not sure if it help but maybe I had deeper sleep? 
 

manati, I brought my “anxiety blanket” with my to my moms house a couple days ago, it is weighted and heavy and feels a tiny bit soothing. I wonder if something like that would help with the shocks and jumpiness you feel. By no means am I doing well in any regard but I seek out any source of comfort. Have started to also leave Netflix on all night at the lowest volume; we are told not to do this but I’m starting to find that just the calming sounds don’t calm me at all, and is almost equivalent to silence. 

If your nights are totally sleepless, have you been getting any naps at all? You were able to exercise and run in the beginning, are you still doing that or working?

 

[tryingtosurvive330]

3 minutes ago, Manati said:

I think it's a really promising sign that you woke up without the anxiety for weeks - doesn't it show that your brain still 'remembers' a state of 'normal'. I'm sure it's gonna stay like that soon, and you're just going through some 'in between' phase right now.

 

3 minutes ago, Manati said:

One of my worst symptoms, apart from the insomnia, is complete emotional 'numbness'. I's horrible! I was blaming the Lyrica for it, but meanwhile, I tend to think I felt as numb since reinstating the few beads of Venlafaxine! It did block out my anxiety, but possibly also all other feelings. It makes me feel 'unhuman'/robotic: I 'think' my feelings, but can't 'feel' them in my system/body - very hard to describe. Do you know a state like that??

Yes - I know exactly the feeling. And when the anxiety waned, that was the next feeling that crept in and it also felt unbearable. It was like I could only feel cold emptiness or severe dread. 
 

the visit with my brother was so good for me but leaving completely broke me. I was almost back to day 1 in terms of how I felt. I’m so glad you can take time off work. The US is notorious for very little vacation and sick and not making time for employees to heal and become their most effective and happy selves. 
 

I hope you are right that my brain remembers the feeling of no anxiety and that it stays like that. So far I don’t know or remember what it’s like to not have the dark depressive feelings, worry about the future and stress - I guess that is anxiety too but not this electric fire feeling of anxiety. 

[Manati]

Tryingtosurvive - oh wow that't interesting that you had that feeling of emptiness, too! Was that before or after you reinstated? And has is faded/ are you feeling anxious again instead?

I feel that it only started after reinstating. Before, there was anxiety, and afterwards emptiness. I'm SO scared of this emptiness, and at the same time, I can't even properly FEEL that I'm scared..

 

I'm so sorry to read that leaving your brother's place was so hard for you. I can really imagine. I hope you are feeling a bit better meanwhile? Will you be able so see him again anytime soon?

 

Yes, I know we're lucky here in terms of work. The cruelty of the US system leaves me speechless - it' s crushing people!!

 

I'm really thinking that you're on a good way. Hey it's obvious that your brain is operating on different levels of anxiety, I'm sure it will balance itself back to health.

Are you still on your reinstatement?

 

37 minutes ago, tryingtosurvive330 said:

Yes - I know exactly the feeling. And when the anxiety waned, that was the next feeling that crept in and it also felt unbearable. It was like I could only feel cold emptiness or severe dread. 
 

the visit with my brother was so good for me but leaving completely broke me. I was almost back to day 1 in terms of how I felt. I’m so glad you can take time off work. The US is notorious for very little vacation and sick and not making time for employees to heal and become their most effective and happy selves. 
 

I hope you are right that my brain remembers the feeling of no anxiety and that it stays like that. So far I don’t know or remember what it’s like to not have the dark depressive feelings, worry about the future and stress - I guess that is anxiety too but not this electric fire feeling of anxiety. 

 

[tryingtosurvive330]

7 minutes ago, Manati said:

Was that before or after you reinstated? And has is faded/ are you feeling anxious again instead?

I feel that it only started after reinstating. Before, there was anxiety, and afterwards emptiness. I'm SO scared of this emptiness, and at the same time, I can't even properly FEEL that I'm scared..

 

I'm so sorry to read that leaving your brother's place was so hard for you. I can really imagine. I hope you are feeling a bit better meanwhile? Will you be able so see him again anytime soon?

I didn’t realize it until you said it, but the emptiness was after reinstatement. I would sit on the couch and just feel so crummy and I didn’t want to smile and felt like I couldn’t move or do anything. I felt like an empty brick. Heavy and filled with nothing. Prior to that it was sheer and utter terror and fear that I would want to suicide. I am still on the reinstatement at a microdose too and so afraid to go up or down. Go up and I will be on this poison for longer. Go down and risk another crash. Stay the same, and well just don’t feel good at all. Of course you know very well as you’re debating on tapering off tour miscrodoses. I really hope you can do something that gives you some relief. I wish so much that there was an answer. 
 

I think I can visit my brother again. It honestly scares me thinking about how I will feel when this nonexistent  trip will come to an end. Haven’t even planned it and already thinking of the bad feelings to come. 

[Manati]

..that is interesting, Tryingtosurvive, that the emptiness started after the reinstatement for you, too!

 

I also transitioned from constant terror to complete emptiness. I certainly don't miss the terror, but ANY kind of emotion would be welcome right now, and remind me of being alive. I wonder if I'll ever get back to an emotionally 'normal' state during this lifetime??

 

Oh no - I'm sorry to hear that you're stuck in the same reinstatement drama - I'm also clueless if it was the right thing to do (ok it DID block out the nightly panic! But it also made me more agitated/possibly increased my insomnia..).

 

I can imagine how bad you feel about having to leave your brother's place again. It is such a shame he's not living nearby!! Isn't there a way for you to find a job/move closer to his place in the long run? I'm in a similar situation regarding my sister - she lives about 3 hours away in France. Now this might not be a long distance for American standards, but I still hardly get to see her and my nieces..

 

15 hours ago, tryingtosurvive330 said:

I didn’t realize it until you said it, but the emptiness was after reinstatement. I would sit on the couch and just feel so crummy and I didn’t want to smile and felt like I couldn’t move or do anything. I felt like an empty brick. Heavy and filled with nothing. Prior to that it was sheer and utter terror and fear that I would want to suicide. I am still on the reinstatement at a microdose too and so afraid to go up or down. Go up and I will be on this poison for longer. Go down and risk another crash. Stay the same, and well just don’t feel good at all. Of course you know very well as you’re debating on tapering off tour miscrodoses. I really hope you can do something that gives you some relief. I wish so much that there was an answer. 
 

I think I can visit my brother again. It honestly scares me thinking about how I will feel when this nonexistent  trip will come to an end. Haven’t even planned it and already thinking of the bad feelings to come. 

 

[tryingtosurvive330]

12 minutes ago, Manati said:

I can imagine how bad you feel about having to leave your brother's place again. It is such a shame he's not living nearby!! Isn't there a way for you to find a job/move closer to his place in the long run? I'm in a similar situation regarding my sister - she lives about 3 hours away in France. Now this might not be a long distance for American standards, but I still hardly get to see her and my nieces..

Yes, for me it’s him and my nephews too. I could find a job and move closer to him, but he’s about 6 hours away. I have no friends up there at all and my parents are down here near me (they do not live together). If I were to go up near my brother my mom would want to move too and it’s too overwhelming for me to think about. Two houses to decide what to do with. I don’t want to be the thing that shakes everyone up. I just feel very stuck and sad. 

[Manati]

Ah I understand... Sure, right now that would be overwhelming for you, but you'll be better one day. For sure! And you'll be able to visit him more often and not feel as stuck. I have to remind myself, too, that life will not always feel like this. It is so tempting to project our present state into the future. We'll sure feel different and have a lot more strength at some point in the future. You have so many good times ahead of you, with your brother and nephews!

 

 

23 minutes ago, tryingtosurvive330 said:

 

Yes, for me it’s him and my nephews too. I could find a job and move closer to him, but he’s about 6 hours away. I have no friends up there at all and my parents are down here near me (they do not live together). If I were to go up near my brother my mom would want to move too and it’s too overwhelming for me to think about. Two houses to decide what to do with. I don’t want to be the thing that shakes everyone up. I just feel very stuck and sad. 

 

 

[Manati]

@Altostrata the Lyrica at low dose is generally helping me to sleep a little. I'm also taking it to help prevent those terrible 'shocks' upon falling asleep. It helps most of the nights, but not always.

I'm worried the Lyrica might mess with my glutamatergic system / GABA receptors in the medium run, making matters worse? Do you think that is possible?

Or could it work as a crutch to keep the arousal - system in check, for the time the serotonergic system needs to recover?

I feel sleep is so important for recovery, but don't want to take a risk.

Thank you for your opinion!!

 

 

On 2/10/2021 at 6:05 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Manati, how is taking the Lyrica affecting you? You've only taken it about 2 weeks, correct? Does your sleep consistently hover around 3 hours per night?

 

When did you start 3 beads of Effexor, what was the effect? What time of day do you take it?

 

Playing very soft music throughout the nighttime may be soothing. I found that watching droning TV programs, such as nature documentaries or historical dramas, helped me nap, as long as they didn't contain any loud noises.

 

 

 

[Kingfisher86]

Hi dear @Manati

 

Just wanted to say Hi🙋🏻‍♀️ I read some of your posts here, and I see you have knowledge, plan and support now. Keep up the good fight💖

[Manati]

2 hours ago, Kingfisher86 said:

Hi dear @Manati

 

Just wanted to say Hi🙋🏻‍♀️ I read some of your posts here, and I see you have knowledge, plan and support now. Keep up the good fight💖

 

 

@Kingfisher86 ❤️ Thank you so much for your message and kind words - they mean a lot!!

Actually, I don't feel as if I'm any further, despite any measures I take... still lost and scared in those symptoms, and it's hard to imagine they will ever subside!! I try to keep fighting.

I'm so happy to read that you have revovered so well!! I think you'll soon be done with this nightmare.

I'm sending you a big hug to Serbia, my friend!! ❤️

[Kingfisher86]

❤️I fully understand your fear that symptoms will never go away. Everybody here is scared of that. BUT things do change, it is just slower than we would like. 

Honestly, in the beggining I thought symptoms will quickly go away. They did not but they changed and were not as scary. That gives you strength to move forward. Time goes on fast...

 

Brain heals on its own and we can help our brain along the way. I recall how some of the symptoms just vainished. I do not think about them anymore. 

Some symptoms are still with me but less intense... I can see them disappear in next few months.

 

In pain we rush ourselves to heal. We get disappointed when we don’t. But in reality we heal everyday, little by little. You are on a good path. 

 

I keep telling myself and keep reminding my friends: We are a living organisams who trive off food... Food is important in recovery. I was on a strict diet first 5 months. Clean diet with almost zero sugar intake. I cheat now but still try to keep it as clean as possible. 

 

You can do this.

[Manati]

@Kingfisher86 Thank you so much for your kind words and encouragement!! ❤️

 

I know you are right with everything you say. And still, my mind finds ways to convince myself why I might be the exception. Because my drug was so particularly nasty (Venlafaxin), because I took it so long (15 years!), because I'm not 20 anymore (but double that), because I cold turkeyed (!), because I reinstated with questionable succes, because I messed around with another drug (Lyrica) that I'm trying to taper already (more instability..), because I have trouble sleeping, etc etc. I hope and pray that you are right and I'll see at least SOME improvements soon..

I'm sure food is very important indeed, and I do eat fairly healthy. However, I'm probably consuming too much sugar.. I know it's poison...

Keep your fingers crossed for me, I'm also sending you my best wishes!!

[Altostrata]

On 3/7/2021 at 11:35 AM, Manati said:

I'm worried the Lyrica might mess with my glutamatergic system / GABA receptors in the medium run, making matters worse? Do you think that is possible?

 

Are you taking 8mg Lyrica?

 

If it works, it works. I would not overthink it. Do not worry about the effect on receptors. You probably will have to taper off later, but you'll be able to manage it.

[Kingfisher86]

15 hours ago, Manati said:

Because my drug was so particularly nasty (Venlafaxin), because I took it so long (15 years!), because I'm not 20 anymore (but double that), because I cold turkeyed (!), because I reinstated with questionable succes, because I messed around with another drug (Lyrica) that I'm trying to taper already (more instability..)

@Manati Everybody here thinks their drug is the worst. Some people have adverse reaction to less nasty drugs. It is a gamble.

 

Maybe think of it this way, even though Venlafaxin is nasty, hey you were on it for 14 yrs without major crises (as you said it) without your body violently rejecting it. So, Venlafaxin was NOT as nasty to you as to other people.

 

Second, people here were on multiple drugs for 30, 25, 20 year and were able to beat it. So, 15 yrs doesn’t seem to be that big.

Remember, people take some drug for couple of days, have adverse reaction and need some time to recover. Again, it is all in perspective. I read stories of people recovering faster than me and they were on drugs longer. Keep your head up!

 

Your age could be an adventage! Youth are still developing and that can be an advantage as well as disadvantage. We do not know. We are so uniqe. But with your life experiance (you are still very much young!) you can muster up courage to fight, knowing there is always sun after the storm.

 

Yeah cold turkey is no joke, but again it doesn’t have to be all that bad in your case. Do not think about it anymore, it robs you of strength. What is done it’s done. I did a fast taper, wich is close to CT and yes it was horrible but I am recovering well. It is so strange how different we are. Some people CT and were lucky as not to experiance a horrible WD. So many things we do not know, so trust your body can heal itself. Taking care of you mind and body should be on top of your list.

 

As for another drug, now that you are taking it think positive! Have you read articles or watched videos on Placebo effect? Thoughts are powerful! So be realistic (recovery takes time) still be positive (do not tell yourself scary stories).

When you need support, just tag me.

You can do this. 

[Manati]

@Kingfisher86❤️ Thank you SO MUCH for taking your time to write such a kind and thoughtful response!! Thank you also for the video. I realise that the mindset is incredibly important. I will try to adapt a more optimistic outlook, at this point I'm basically crippled with fear.

Especially those nightly shock reactions of my body, and being impaired in my breathing - those experiences are so traumatic, they occupy my mind pretty much all day long. As well as losing my entire 'life' right now.

 

If only I KNEW for sure that my body WILL recover. Not a bit and not perhaps - but for sure and completely!! That would take such a burden off my mind.

 

Thank you so much for trying to encourage me. I know that my parameters are only one part of the equasion, and that everyone's body reacts in a different way. I will try and hold on to that thought!

 

You are a beautiful soul, Kingfisher, and I'm so glad to have you (mentally) by my side in this struggle!

 

Thank you so much!!

 

 

 

On 3/12/2021 at 4:00 PM, Kingfisher86 said:

 

 

 

Everybody here thinks their drug is the worst. Some people have adverse reaction to less nasty drugs. It is a gamble.

 

Maybe think of it this way, even though Venlafaxin is nasty, hey you were on it for 14 yrs without major crises (as you said it) without your body violently rejecting it. So, Venlafaxin was NOT as nasty to you as to other people.

 

Second, people here were on multiple drugs for 30, 25, 20 year and were able to beat it. So, 15 yrs doesn’t seem to be that big.

Remember, people take some drug for couple of days, have adverse reaction and need some time to recover. Again, it is all in perspective. I read stories of people recovering faster than me and they were on drugs longer. Keep your head up!

 

Your age could be an adventage! Youth are still developing and that can be an advantage as well as disadvantage. We do not know. We are so uniqe. But with your life experiance (you are still very much young!) you can muster up courage to fight, knowing there is always sun after the storm.

 

Yeah cold turkey is no joke, but again it doesn’t have to be all that bad in your case. Do not think about it anymore, it robs you of strength. What is done it’s done. I did a fast taper, wich is close to CT and yes it was horrible but I am recovering well. It is so strange how different we are. Some people CT and were lucky as not to experiance a horrible WD. So many things we do not know, so trust your body can heal itself. Taking care of you mind and body should be on top of your list.

 

As for another drug, now that you are taking it think positive! Have you read articles or watched videos on Placebo effect? Thoughts are powerful! So be realistic (recovery takes time) still be positive (do not tell yourself scary stories).

When you need support, just tag me.

You can do this. 

 

[Manati]

Thank you @Altostrata, for your input!

 

I am currently down to 5mg Lyrica. I'm not sure the benefits outweigh the side effects, so I am thinking of tapering off it completely. I have been on it for 7 weeks only, and my highest dose was 8mg.

I read through the 'tapering Lyrica' thread on here which recommends a 10% taper. But I am wondering if I need to taper it over many months after taking it for only 7 weeks at such a low dose?

Or should I try to taper a bit faster, so my CNS won't be exposed to it even longer?

 

Thank you for your opinion!

 

 

On 3/12/2021 at 8:48 AM, Altostrata said:

Are you taking 8mg Lyrica?

 

If it works, it works. I would not overthink it. Do not worry about the effect on receptors. You probably will have to taper off later, but you'll be able to manage it.

 

[Altostrata]

Two days ago, I posted "if it works, it works" and suggested you might stay on it.

 

Now you want to know if you can quit Lyrica?

 

If it helps you sleep, I would not go off it. If you go off it anyway and can't sleep, please do not come back here and complain you can't sleep without it. You are making your own problems.

 

If it helps you sleep but you feel the effect is too strong, I would reduce it by perhaps 10% and see if that's better. It could be that a lower amount is your "sweet spot".

 

If it does not help you sleep, since you've been taking it since January 23, you will need to carefully reduce it by 10% per step to go off it or risk withdrawal symptoms.

[Manati]

Thank you, @Altostrata, for your response.

I totally realise how unreasonable this comes across, and I don't mean to make such decisions light heartedly. I felt that the side effects at higher doses were too much, and tried to find said 'sweet spot' as suggested by you. However, it turned out reducing the dosage by 10% stopped the sleep benefit, while still producing the side effects. I would really stay on it if those side effects weren't so bad. I know tapering off is risky, and I really don't want to mess it up. So I'll stick with reducing 10% per step. Please allow me one more question, would 'a step' in this case be one month?

I'm sorry for bothering you, and would be really grateful for letting me know.

 

 

14 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Two days ago, I posted "if it works, it works" and suggested you might stay on it.

 

Now you want to know if you can quit Lyrica?

 

If it helps you sleep, I would not go off it. If you go off it anyway and can't sleep, please do not come back here and complain you can't sleep without it. You are making your own problems.

 

If it helps you sleep but you feel the effect is too strong, I would reduce it by perhaps 10% and see if that's better. It could be that a lower amount is your "sweet spot".

 

If it does not help you sleep, since you've been taking it since January 23, you will need to carefully reduce it by 10% per step to go off it or risk withdrawal symptoms.

 

[HardTimes]

Just wanted to add my own thanks to @Kingfisher86 for those intelligent words of support! I'm sort of lurking on Manati's page as I've been following her (?) situation with interest, and thought Kingfisher's comments were really encouraging for all of us. 

 

Manati - I hope the sleep improves! At least by now you have confirmation that even when the insomnia is bad, it doesn't actually kill you, so you don't need to panic about it. Also, I thought about those spasm things you mentioned just before falling asleep - If I'm right, they're just hypnogogic jerks, and they're perfectly natural, even if you've never had them before. I've had them from time to time throughout my life, but never to the point where they totally ruin the whole night. I just have a strange spasm just at the moment of falling asleep (kicking my partner, flopping like a madman), I'm awake for a second, and then I go back to sleep. Rarely it will happen 2-3 times in a row, but I can usually just go to sleep after that. Just letting you know (in case you don't!) that this is actually a fairly normal thing loads of people experience regularly, not a weird, unique symptom directly connected to WD. Not that that helps all that much!

 

Anyway, keep hanging in there. 

[Kingfisher86]

On 3/15/2021 at 7:17 PM, HardTimes said:

Just wanted to add my own thanks to @Kingfisher86 for those intelligent words of support! I'm sort of lurking on Manati's page as I've been following her (?) situation with interest, and thought Kingfisher's comments were really encouraging for all of us. 

@HardTimes Thank you for those words.☺️ I tell friends what I keep telling myself. I am happy when it helps others.

[Manati]

@brassmonkey may I ask for your opinion/help?

I have learned to manage many of my symptoms in the meantime, but wasn't prepared for this one: depression hit me with a force. I was anhedonic/suffered from complete emotional anesthesia ever since reinstating, but I am now feeling severely depressed on top of that. It is so overwhelming, I don't know what to do!!?

 

I am still on my Effexor/Venlafaxine reinstatement which suppresses my feelings of panic, but all other emotions, too. Now there's just bleak and painful hopelessness on top.

I desperately want my emotions back and taper off the tiny reinstatement. However, I might be helpless in the face of that panic underneath, so I'm feeling trapped!

 

@brassmonkey I am worried that my 'naturally' anxious/depressed brain will never find into a 'healthy' state after 18years of medication and this cold turkey crash. Do you have experience with similar cases?

 

Does the fact that the Effexor only has a numbing effect mean that no antidepressant will work for me again? Doctors suggest different drugs. I don't want to take more/other drugs, but what if there's no other way out? What would you do in my situation?

 

I'm feeling so hopeless, and would be grateful for any help/input!!

 

Thank You!!

 

 

 

[HardTimes]

HI Manati,

In spite of your situation, it is "nice" to hear from you again, if you know what I mean. I was thinking I'd post something here just to inquire how things are going. And I hope BrassMonkey gets back to you too, I just thought I'd throw in my two cents for whatever they're worth.

 

Once again I feel a surge of familiarity with your situation. For the longest time it seemed that my complaints were primarily physical, along with the insomnia. I was often grumpier in the mornings due to the infamous "cortisol spike", but somehow WD seemed to be mostly a physical thing (brain zaps, heat flashes, neck pain, etc). But, like you, some bouts of depression then hit really freaking hard. It seemed like a totally new phenomenon, unlike any depressive period I'd ever experienced before. Catastrophic system failure type stuff.

 

It is important to realize that we're all different and these things can all go differently for all of us - I don't want to scare you into thinking that my or anyone else's situation will mirror yours. You might bounce back from this fairly quickly as your brain continues to adjust, it might just be a speed bump. But I think several people here have experienced some pretty intense bouts of depression, and even somewhat strange, unfamiliar states too (self-loathing, obsessive regrets and nostalgia, etc), so it may simply be part of the recovery process. Don't panic if that happens - re-read the "neuro-emotions" stuff and try to see it as part of your system seeking homeostasis and nothing more sinister.

 

It is also really important to somehow force yourself to remember that the depression WILL lift. It is not easy, because the very thing that allows you to have hope or courage or a stiff upper lip or a positive attitude is the very thing that is being attacked. When I'm down, it seems impossible to believe that I'll ever feel anything different. But when it does lift, as it always eventually does, I think I've recovered and put the whole horrible thing behind me for good. Today (and the last few days) have been pretty bad for me, but I have to just keep reminding myself that it DOES go away, it WILL change. And I'm 100% certain it will for you too. I can't explain the mechanisms (I've kind of lost faith in all the explanations at this point, which stinks), but I know that it does lift. The blue sky is always there above the clouds. 

 

I'm curious to know if you notice a pattern to your emotional health, and what connection it has to sleep? Do you wake up really early and have bad mornings, and maybe find your outlook a little better later on in the day? Or is it just a constant feeling of nothing? What is your sleep like now? Do you get more sleep at the start of the night, or later on?

 

I won't advise you here about drug changes (though if I do have useful advice to share from my own situation I'll be sure to pass it along), but I will point out that, at least so it seems to me, the situation is always fluid. Slow moving, but fluid. Symptoms can slowly change. So right now you're conceiving of your decision (I think) as one between panic attacks (if you have no Effexor) and emotionless/hopeless depression if you stay on. I'm not sure (unfortunately) that you can see it in those terms, unless you can be sure that the Effexor is responsible for the depression, and that the panic will come back if you go off it. This whole business of windows and waves makes finding causal connections pretty tricky - this might just be a bad wave that will pass if you hold the course. Maybe if you give yourself some sort of timeline - "If I'm still feeling like this in X days/weeks, I will have to try Option B" - this way you don't make rash decisions on the spur of the moment out of desperation, and it can be comforting somehow to just have a plan of SOME kind. 

 

I'd like to remind you that in your experience so far you have already demonstrated your resilience, intelligence, resourcefulness and power to endure. I don't believe anybody is in an "unrecoverable" situation, and if anybody can heal you can. It sucks SOOOO much, but just ride out that hopelessness with whatever can take your mind off it (socializing if possible, mind-distracting movies, forcing yourself to get some exercise, good books...) and know it always lifts eventually. 

 

My heart goes out to you!

[brassmonkey]

HardTimes has done a good job of covering the emotional part of your question. It's really quite funny that depression is a side effect of antidepressants, actually not funny, but you get my point.

 

All antidepressants work by causing us to feel nothing at all, about anything. They don't fix depression they just make us not care about it. So trying to change to another drug won't do anything to help the situation. The only way out is to stop taking them. Once we are off the drugs we no longer have their affects to deal with but go back to having to deal what ever got us on them in the first place. One of our jobs during ADWD is to address those issues so they don't come back.

 

ADWD is a very trying time emotionally. Windows, waves, SI, ruminating thoughts all caused by the drugs. Once they are out of the body we can recover and return to normal. Until that time we have to believe that things will get better in order to cope. With time our beliefs will come true.

[Manati]

@brassmonkey thank you so much for your response!! Before that crash, the venlafaxine/effexor was working for me - it suppressed my anxiety and possibly other sad feelings, but I HAD a full range of emotions. It's only now, after the reinstatement, that it seems to block out ALL emotions.

 

Do you think it is even possible for a naturally anxious/depressed brain to find back into a 'healthy/happy' state of being after 18years on drugs followed by such a crash-landing??

Have you seen similar cases with a happy ending??

 

 

 

 

On 4/4/2021 at 9:46 PM, brassmonkey said:

 

HardTimes has done a good job of covering the emotional part of your question. It's really quite funny that depression is a side effect of antidepressants, actually not funny, but you get my point.

 

All antidepressants work by causing us to feel nothing at all, about anything. They don't fix depression they just make us not care about it. So trying to change to another drug won't do anything to help the situation. The only way out is to stop taking them. Once we are off the drugs we no longer have their affects to deal with but go back to having to deal what ever got us on them in the first place. One of our jobs during ADWD is to address those issues so they don't come back.

 

ADWD is a very trying time emotionally. Windows, waves, SI, ruminating thoughts all caused by the drugs. Once they are out of the body we can recover and return to normal. Until that time we have to believe that things will get better in order to cope. With time our beliefs will come true.

 

[brassmonkey]

ADWD gives us the opportunity to address and work on  many aspects of our thought processes while we have been reduced to a very primal state. The drugs tend to "burn away" all our preconceived behavior patterns and leaves us with just our most basic and solid beliefs. We can then build on them, examining each new emotion as it reemerges and adjusting it to our personal needs. I won't say the it will cure preexisting conditions, but it allows us the chance to examine them at a very deep level and redirect our life and thinking in a more positive direction. ADWD is a pretty horrific thing to go through but our members are proving daily that the final outcome can be very positive.

[Manati]

@Altostrata from your experience, how do you judge the chance of full recovery for someone with my difficult conditions - a cold turkey from Effexor after 15 years long term intake?? Do you know similar cases that have fully recovered? Sorry for the desperate question and thank you for your opinion!

[Altostrata]

Yes, people have fully recovered. See the Success Stories section of the site.

 

I cannot tell the future, so I cannot tell how long it will take for you to recover. You should see very gradual improvement.

[Manati]

Thanks so much for your encouraging response, @Altostrata. I have skimmend through the 'cold turkey' section of the Success Stories, and found only one case with similar preconditions (Coldturkmama). And was a bit unsettled by a fairly pessimistic Dr.Shipko- statement regarding the healing of long term users..

 

 

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Yes, people have fully recovered. See the Success Stories section of the site.

 

I cannot tell the future, so I cannot tell how long it will take for you to recover. You should see very gradual improvement.

 

[Altostrata]

You're not going to find an identical twin whose experience mirrors yours. Please discuss your concerns with the community by posting in the appropriate topics, people go through this questioning period all the time.

[HardTimes]

Hey Manati,

Just wanted to pop in and let you know I've been thinking about you a lot over the last few weeks. Your recent posts made me a bit worried. I really hope you've found some decent coping techniques and are not feeling quite so hopeless. I remember when I went from see-saw to more constant pit-of-dispair, and it was just really, really horrible. When you are down it just doesn't seem possible to get back out of the hole, and it feels like you've always been that way and always will. But as I've said, things DO improve. They really do. You may have a bit of a limp, but you'll be able to walk again, I swear! Just do whatever you need to do to get through each day, one day at a time. 

 

Anyway, no need to post or reply, do whatever you need to do, but just know there are people out in the wide world thinking about you and hoping that things are going OK for you. 

[Manati]

Hardtimes!

Thank you so much.

Your words mean more than you may imagine. To be honest, I suck at coping. I'd need HOPE to cope, but looking at my conditions - ct'ing Effexor after 15/18 years - that's difficult. Having lost all my emotions, I don't even feel human anymore. I'm in nuclear Winter.

Thank you for being such a kind soul.

 

6 hours ago, HardTimes said:

Hey Manati,

Just wanted to pop in and let you know I've been thinking about you a lot over the last few weeks. Your recent posts made me a bit worried. I really hope you've found some decent coping techniques and are not feeling quite so hopeless. I remember when I went from see-saw to more constant pit-of-dispair, and it was just really, really horrible. When you are down it just doesn't seem possible to get back out of the hole, and it feels like you've always been that way and always will. But as I've said, things DO improve. They really do. You may have a bit of a limp, but you'll be able to walk again, I swear! Just do whatever you need to do to get through each day, one day at a time. 

 

Anyway, no need to post or reply, do whatever you need to do, but just know there are people out in the wide world thinking about you and hoping that things are going OK for you. 

 

[Manati]

Hi everyone,

and @Altostrata may I ask for your advice? Looking back to January, I showed quite an adverse reaction to reinstating a microdose of the Venlafaxine (agitation/akathisia and insomnia). However, I stayed on 3, then 2 beads nevertheless, as it also numbed my terrible morning anxiety immediately. The agitation/akathisia improved after introducing the Lyrica, and didn't come back while tapering off of it. I'm still on 2 beads of Venlafaxine 6 months later, and only just found out that adverse reactions can have severe long term effects independent from withdrawal. I was therefore wondering if the 2 beads might cause me more harm than good, even though my system isn't actively rebelling against them anymore. Do you think I should therefore taper off the microdose as soon as possible?

Thank you for your input!