Neon: Venlafaxine withdrawal

[Vasherr]

Hi @Neon how are You doing lately? You haven't posted for a while, but who am I to judge, I too don't post on my topic too often.. 

 

I have found that further reducing my dose was an answer for me, it would seem that my system is so sensitised that even low doses generate adverse effects, but I had to carefully analyse my daily symptom pattern to find that answer. I'm not saying that it would be an answer for You and for sure it would be a risky move as it could make matters worse, so proceed with utmost care, no one here would like to see You suffer.

 

Sending more healing vibes to You with my GF as I've told her a little about Your struggle and she has hope You will come out on top as do I

[Neon]

Dear @Vasherr I am so happy you are doing better and finally stabilizing! Good job about finding that out 🙂

 

Unfortunately I am miserable. My akathisia has gotten to a point where I am genuinely frightened for my life, either because I give in to the strong SI surges or either because I die from lack of sleep or food.

I am only able to exist on ever increasing doses of the benzo and that cant go on forever.

sorry but its pretty bleak.

[Ariel]

Hi @Neon

I've been reading your thread. I'm sorry for your suffering.

How are you doing?

A.

[Neon]

Hi Ariel, its so sweet of you to drop by and ask.

It has been tough to be honest but I had a ten-day-window where I felt almost normal so I am just hoping that it repeats itself.. 

how are you doing?

[Ariel]

Hi @Neon

Good to hear from you. I'm sorry it's been tough. 

Yes, these windows are like lucky charms we carry with us through the waves... It is so good that you can rely on these experiences to help you navigate the rough seas. 

Healing is happening all the time, even when we cannot consciously feel it. 

Sending love and light,

A.

[Neon]

@FrogieI hope it is okay to tag you but you are the benzo expert and I am at a loss.

I didnt change my medication at all during the past months (apart of thr fact that I stopped smoking and cut my Olanzapine dose 40% accordingly. I did a lot of research and smoking lowers the dose available in the body by 40% and accordingly you need to lower it 40% when you stop. I smoked a pack a day to keep the dose stable and really had to stop) and I just wanted to get stable and wait until the akathisia is gone. It was tough but bearable.

Since a few days my sleep has significantly deteriorater and I have very strong anxiety, palpitations and vibrating feeling in my body. My sleep was bad before so it could be the benzo losing effect even though I didnt really have noticed any effect past month 1. the anxiety is new though, I didnt have it before and I am at a loss what to do. I am afraid I am in tolerance withdrawal. I realize that is extremely rare but here I am experiencing something like it. 

What should I do? I am nowhere near stable even though I had 5 good days before this without akathisia or anything. should I taper, should I updose.. I think this will only get worse, it has in the past 5 days. I am afraid I lose sleep completely. I am already doing all the techniques advocated on this site. 

Maybe you have some insight.

Thank you so much in advance.

[Frogie]

@Neon

 

I am reading your signature really quickly and see you are taking Lorazepam also? And you are up to 4mg? Do you take this all at once? You have become dependent on this amount now, so you will need to continue to take it, however, you need to take it in split doses at least twice a day because it only stays in your system about 10 hours. So you will need to take 1/2 your dose and move it up an hour each day until the doses are 12 hours apart. 

 

Example: If you take it at 10pm, you would take 2mg at 9pm and 2mg at 10pm, the next day 2mg at 8pm and 2mg at 10pm, until you have moved the once dose to 10am.

 

If that doesn't help, you may need to split into 3 doses throughout the day.

 

Let me know how you feel after doing this.

[Neon]

@frogie I take it in 4 split doses, at 8,12,17 and 21o‘clock. is it better to take in two morning and evening?

I know I am dependent on it but I have symptoms like I am in withdrawal suddenly, anxiety, palpitations, sleep deteriorating and I dont know why, I am afraid I am in tolerance withdrawal and dont know what to do. Everyday I feel worse.

thank you so much for taking the time

[Neon]

@Frogie

[Frogie]

@Neon

 

No, keep taking it on that schedule. It could be your recent drop of Olanzapine that you are feeling. If you still feel bad in a couple of days, you could updose the Olanzapine a tiny bit and see if that helps.

[Neon]

@Frogie okay thank you

[MrAnxious]

4 hours ago, Neon said:

@Frogie okay thank you

I hope and pray for you Neon, if you read my story with my journey with Effexor aka Venaflaxine, I struggled for a long time too, but know you will eventually figure this all out. Feel free to message me to my inbox and we can chat ! 

[Vasherr]

@Neon It's great to hear that You had a break in symptoms, fingers crossed for more of that in the veeeeeeeryyyy near future

 

[Vasherr]

Also wishing Your sleep problems go away, it's almost holidays time so they can go on vacation!

[Neon]

@Vasherr I am actually having a new window since a few days ❤️❤️❤️ thanks for stopping by, it is really nice to not have anxiety or akathisia for a bit..

and the sleeping problems can go for a sabbatical never to return ☺️

unfortunately it seems they like their work too much atm

 

@Frogie you were right, my anxiety dissipated, so I guess it was from the Olanzapine drop afterall 😊

 

[Neon]

@Frogie after a week without symptoms I suddenly have strong palpitations and a strong vibrating feeling all day long all over my body and I am scared again this could be tolerance withdrawal from the Lorazepam.. how can I tell, what should I do.. my sleep is suffering.. I didnt do any med changes..

 

I hope it is okay to tag you. I am just really lost

[Neon]

I read up on it on this site and on benzobuddies and apparently all you can do is to slowly reduce the benzo and heal afterward. Which is not ideal given I have been without akathisia for two weeks only now. 

 

sorry to be such a complicated case. 

[Altostrata]

Unlike benzobuddies, we do not recommend continuing to taper when withdrawal symptoms appear. 

 

When and what was your last drug increase? Exactly what are you taking now, at what times o'clock and dosages?

[Neon]

@Altostrata you can see what I am taking in my signature.

I take 93.75mg Venlafaxine 8pm

3mg Olanzapine 10pm

and 4mg Lorazepam 1mg each at 8-12-17-21 o‘clock

 

my last dose increase from the Lorazepam was 1 1/2 months ago (involuntarily but the smoking stop affected the benzo too and it increased, I cant tell by how much, only that before I didnt feel anything anymore when I took it and afterwards I felt sedation again but only for a week, now I dont feel anything when I take it, I develop tolerance quite rapidly)

 

Apart of that I only adjusted the Olanzapine when I stopped smoking, I didnt feel any symptoms for two weeks afterwards, then some anxiety.. then a bout of akathisia and then again I felt fine for a week and then suddenly I developed this vibrating feeling and pulsating and burning skin sensation all over my body plus I slept only 2-3 hours the past few nights which made my akathisia return.

So it is all a mess. I have been holding all my meds so far and absolutely dont know what to do. 

When it is tolerance withdrawal it wont improve by waiting.

Before the involuntary increase of Lorazepam by the smoking stop I also started getting palpitations and vibrations which then stopped for a while.

[Neon]

The feeling is so unrelenting, its there 24/7 and its paired with 24/7 anxiety

 

 

this is the paper regarding the smoking olanzapine connection I consulted among many others, it also mentions the benzo smoking correlation

[Altostrata]

Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

[Neon]

It is definitely not an adverse drug effect, I have been taking these drugs like this for months now and have had periods where I was completely fine.

The question is whether I have tolerance withdrawal and what to do if I have.

I suddenly stopped sleeping after three months of being okay with it and it is aggravating my akathisia.

[ChessieCat]

Drawing attention to this previous post:

 

On 5/28/2022 at 8:43 PM, Neon said:

@FrogieI hope it is okay to tag you but you are the benzo expert and I am at a loss.

I didnt change my medication at all during the past months (apart of thr fact that I stopped smoking and cut my Olanzapine dose 40% accordingly. I did a lot of research and smoking lowers the dose available in the body by 40% and accordingly you need to lower it 40% when you stop. I smoked a pack a day to keep the dose stable and really had to stop) and I just wanted to get stable and wait until the akathisia is gone. It was tough but bearable.

Since a few days my sleep has significantly deteriorater and I have very strong anxiety, palpitations and vibrating feeling in my body. My sleep was bad before so it could be the benzo losing effect even though I didnt really have noticed any effect past month 1. the anxiety is new though, I didnt have it before and I am at a loss what to do. I am afraid I am in tolerance withdrawal. I realize that is extremely rare but here I am experiencing something like it. 

What should I do? I am nowhere near stable even though I had 5 good days before this without akathisia or anything. should I taper, should I updose.. I think this will only get worse, it has in the past 5 days. I am afraid I lose sleep completely. I am already doing all the techniques advocated on this site. 

Maybe you have some insight.

Thank you so much in advance.

 

[Neon]

@ChessieCat

I switched to vaping so I didnt change my nicotine intake. I did not feel side effects from that at all.

I posted the paper outlining the Olanzapine smoking correlation, there should not have been more than a slight drop in my blood stream levels at all.

[hayduke]

Neon.  I am pretty sure that it's the big olanzapine cut that is causing your issues.  I would seriously consider updosing to somewhere between 1/4-1/2 of the difference, and holding.  It will still suck for a while if you do that.

I don't think your logic that there is a direct trade-off between the prescription drug and the smoking is that sound.  There are multiple dimensions to all these substances and just because a couple correlate doesn't mean the others do.

I quit smoking within weeks of being drugged with olanzapine, interestingly.  Wasn't easy, but since everything else sucked at the time, maybe I didn't fully notice how much it sucks.

In your case I would've dropped the cigs, then adjusted to what I felt from the prescription in response.

[Neon]

@haydukethanks for dropping by 🙂 

I read several papers on it and did as they recommended. One I posted above.

It is just strange that I felt normal for two weeks after and then one week was sh*tty and then I was better again and now suddenly sleep is gone and akathisia is back with it.
 

I quit smoking before while still on it and I definitely noticed an increase because I got Olanzapine hunger which is terrible in itself.

I just thought it would be more gentle on my CNS to try to not let the Olanzapine go up and then back down again.

A week ago I was fine with intact sleep and no akathisia. Why would the withdrawal start so late?

 

And now I have tolerance withdrawal looming over me.

[Neon]

The thing is nobody can know if it is withdrawal from the Olanzapine or tolerance withdrawal at this point.

[Altostrata]

Still need to see those daily symptom notes.

[Neon]

04:00 wake with akathisia, burning skin, pulsating, vibrating feeling

lie in bed in agony

08:00 take Venlafaxine, Lorazepam, feel no change

continue to lie in bed in agony, same symptoms

12:00 take Lorazepam, feel no change

14:00 eat lunch, can hardly sit still

dip in pool for burning sensation

continue to lie in bed in agony, same symptoms

17:00 take Lorazepam, no change

18:00 lunch, can hardly sit

continue to lie in bed in agony

21:30 take Olanzapine, Lorazepam, feel no change

23:00 sleep

 

I remembered a couple of days ago I had diarrhea for three days, could that have messed with my meds? especially the Venlafaxine since the diarrhea was in the mornings. I think it was an enteritis.

 

[Altostrata]

Please add dosage for each dose in your symptom notes.

 

When did you add lorazepam, how long have you been taking this amount of daily lorazepam on this schedule? Why are you taking lorazepam with venlafaxine in the morning and olanzapine at night?

 

Please condense and update your signature.

[Neon]

19/06/2022

02am wake up, akathisia, burning skin, vibration feeling, palpitations, hell

increases til

8am take Venlafaxine 93,75mg, Lorazepam 1mg, dont feel a difference

same symptoms until

12am take Lorazepam 1mg, dont feel difference

eat lunch, can hardly sit still, can hardly eat

same symptoms continue, lie in bed in agony or pace around

5pm take 1mg Lorazepam, am in hell, feel no difference, same symptoms

7pm eat dinner, can again hardly eat, so much adrenaline rushing through me plus physical symptoms

10pm take 3mg Olanzapine, 1mg Lorazepam, feel the same

12pm fall asleep

 

20/06/2022

02am wake up with same symptoms, lie in agony in bed until

8am take 93,75mg Venlafaxine, 1mg Lorazepam, feel no difference

lie in bed all morning apart of one dip in the pool to cool my burning skin, helps for maybe 20mins, total agony apart of that

12am take 1mg Lorazepam, eat lunch, can only eat some fruit salad

lie in bed again apart of a dip in the pool with adrenaline rushing through me, burning and vibrating skin, palpitations all over my body, akathisia

5pm take 1mg Lorazepam, feel no difference

7pm eat dinner

lie again in bed in agony

10pm cave in take 1,25mg Lorazepam and 3mg Olanzapine, feel sedated, other symptoms persist, go to bed

12pm fall asleep

 

21/06/2022

6am wake up, same symptoms

8pm, take 1,25mg Lorazepam, symptoms get a little better, less burning skin and vibrating

12pm take 1,25mg Lorazepam, feel a little better, eat lunch with no appetite

lie in bed with less intense symptoms

17pm take 1.25mg Lorazepam, symptoms improve

7pm eat dinner

 

I take my morning and evening meds always together. I have been taking 4mg Lorazepam on this schedule for 2 1/2 months, akathisia came and went but I got some pretty good windows until lately when the vibrating and pulsating started and suddenly I always woke up 2 hours after I went to sleep which triggered severe akathisia again.

 

I dont know if it was simply the Lorazepam losing effectiveness which stopped my sleeping or if it was tolerance withdrawal or if it was withdrawal of the Olanzapine afterall even though I didnt notice any withdrawal symptoms for two weeks after at all. I just dont know. I caved in and took more Lorazepam, the suffering and SI surges were too intense.

So I guess there is not much for you to do anymore.

Lorazepam will lose effectiveness again, my sleep will go again and then the akathisia comes back again and I just feel like I am doomed.

 

[Altostrata]

56 minutes ago, Neon said:

So I guess there is not much for you to do anymore.

 

I agree with this. I cannot follow your self-medication attempts. Sorry.

[Vasherr]

Hi, @Neon, sorry that I was away for such a long time, I was trying to use the blissful time of what I now think of as a window to be with my girlfriend and live my life.

 

But WD again decided to bite me and once again I feel rather bad, so I came here to connect with the few people that understand this unbelievably hard condition...

 

How are You lately? I have hope that You are taking care of Yourself as much as You are able to?

 

Wishing You a lifelong window!

V.

[Neon]

hey @Vasherr it is really good hearing from you! although of course I am sorry that you are feeling bad again. What are your symptoms? I hope you get a really long forever window soon!! And I am happy you could enjoy parts of summer 🙂

 

I am doing a lot better. I am going to this woman who does NIS (neurolink integration system) and it has really helped with my symptoms. Maybe somebody does it near you also, I can really recommend it. Summer was awful for me but hopefully fall will be better. Hope for you too!

[Vasherr]

Hey, @Neon,

 

my symptoms were waves of lets call it anxiety but it is an understatement, hot flashes, dry mouth, chest buzzing like an electric toothbrush, the usual draining joy from life WD stuff 😜

 

I am happy to say that there was a linear recovery trend from Thursday up until today, still going so I hope that maybe I can even get to feeling average or something, surely hope so as I am almost 30 as is my girlfriend and we would like to have a child before she will get into an age in which there is a higher chance of complications, and I want to be a good father, not a bedridden by WD wreck.

 

I am very happy to hear that You are feeling better, it was heartbreaking to see Your suffering, no one should have to go through something like that... Keeping my fingers crossed that Your recovery trend will also carry You to stability.

 

As to myself trying NIS, I will think about it if I am feeling really desperate, really sensitised people tend to get worse with treatments like that, and if I can barely tolerate 1/4 of lowest dose of venlafaxine than I think it is risky for me to try something like that, maybe when I will fully stabilise and feel good for a while, but I appreciate Your input and will remember it.

 

Wishing a lifelong window for the both of us!

V.

[Lauren90]

Hi @Neon how are you doing?