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Spiracle - Magnesium threonate and blood / brain barrier


Spiracle

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I have been reading posts about magnesium on the forum , and I decided to try magnesium glycinate. 2 weeks ago I tapered from 65 mg. Ellavil to 63 mg. I went slow to test the waters. My w/d symptoms have been some insomnia and feeling a bit hyper. So far, it's manageable with exersize and magnesium for sleep. After 30 days ,I intend to go down to 60 mg.which would be a 5 percent taper and see how that goes. I wanted to see if anyone knows about mag. Threonate which I hear is the only one that goes thru the blood. /brain barrier. Would that be beneficial for w/d symptoms or too much for the brain to handle?

Spiracle , I look forward to being part of this group . I am starting to resume my taper from ellavil . 

Began ellavil Dec. 2016 at 85 mg.

Began taper from ellavil Jan. 2018 by 5 % decrement until I got to 65 mg. March 2019. Going to resume taper on Dec. 8 2020 to 63 mg.to test the waters

 Also on 200 mg. Neurontin since March , 2008 .

 Also on 20 mg. Diazepam since June , 1981 .

 Goal is to slowly taper ellavil until I am off it despite my fears .

 My concussion doctor says it is interfering with my neural synaptic functions .

 

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  • Moderator

Welcome to SA, Spiracle.

 

From my research, it appears that most if not all magnesium crosses the blood brain barrier.  Threonate certainly does as does glycinate.  I would monitor how much threonate you take and see how it affects you.  Most people in withdrawal do well with magnesium, but some don't.  Increase or decrease your dosage according to how it affects you.  One advantage of glycinate is that it has less of a laxative effect than other varieties.

 

It's very good you're taking it slowly on your taper.  As you know, we recommend tapering by no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.  Some need to go more slowly.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Another taper method that is a bit gentler than the 10% method is the Brssmonkey slide taper.  I used it to taper Lexapro and will be using it to taper Valium.

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

This link is specifically about tapering Elavil (Amitriptyline).

 

Tips for tapering off amitriptyline

 

Could you give us more information about your concussion?

 

The symptoms of insomnia and feeling hyper are typical withdrawal symptoms.  If they become too much, that means you are tapering too fast.

 

 

 

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain the healing process really well.

 

 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that ae single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can complete your drug signature, questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

Edited by Gridley

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of June 15: 10.5mgai.  Taper is  44% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Hi Gridley , thank you for all the information you sent to me about magnesium . Very informative and helpful . I'll tell you more about my concussions , since you asked . 7 years ago I fell in the house and had a mild concussion . In a month I healed and was back to all my athletic activities.  A few months later, I fell in the shower and had another concussion. This one took over a year for me to get back to normal functioning and activities. Then , one night while driving and stopped at a red light , some very young person rammed me from behind at such a force that the entire front of his car was smashed in as was the rear of my car. My concussions now became called traumatic brain injury . I was in shock and really out of it and I still am not able to resume my normal activities even though the accident was 5 years ago. Physical therapy has been helping somewhat, but some neurologist put me on ellavil which did not help. I stilll struggle with headaches and dizziness and can exersize somewhat, but not like I used to. I am disabled and am now struggling to even manage my cut from 65 mg. to 63 mg. This is week 4 of my taper. I am not sure if I should go down again to 60 mg. next week as was my plan. Having a brain injury makes it more complex. But my concussion doctor says it will help my brain functioning. I would appreciate some feedback. Thank you.

Spiracle , I look forward to being part of this group . I am starting to resume my taper from ellavil . 

Began ellavil Dec. 2016 at 85 mg.

Began taper from ellavil Jan. 2018 by 5 % decrement until I got to 65 mg. March 2019. Going to resume taper on Dec. 8 2020 to 63 mg.to test the waters

 Also on 200 mg. Neurontin since March , 2008 .

 Also on 20 mg. Diazepam since June , 1981 .

 Goal is to slowly taper ellavil until I am off it despite my fears .

 My concussion doctor says it is interfering with my neural synaptic functions .

 

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  • Moderator
3 hours ago, Spiracle said:

I am disabled and am now struggling to even manage my cut from 65 mg. to 63 mg. This is week 4 of my taper. I am not sure if I should go down again to 60 mg. next week as was my plan. Having a brain injury makes it more complex. But my concussion doctor says it will help my brain functioning.

Whether or not you go down to 60mg depends on how you feel.  That's much more important than adhering to a plan.  If you're struggle you may need to taper more slowly.

 

If I understand your signature correctly, your doctor says the Elavil is interfering with your synaptic functions.  Traumatic brain injuries are outside the scope of what we do here, but Elavil is a powerful drug that definitely alters your brain functions.  However, that negative needs to be balanced with the dangers of tapering too fast, which can throw you into withdrawal that can be very unpleasant and long-lasting.  If you can, I'd taper slowly.

 

Tips for tapering off amitriptyline

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of June 15: 10.5mgai.  Taper is  44% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Spiracle - having a hard time

      I am into week 5 of tapering ellavil from 65 mg. to 63 mg. and I am in real pain. My anxiety level is really bad at this point and I am very depressed. My main outlet for generating good feelings has always been to exersize, but between my feeling unstable and all the snow outside, I have not been able to even take walks to move and get fresh air and sunshine. I don't know if enduring this level of pain is too smart.

    I expected to go down to 61 mg after 4 wks. but I thought it better to hold being I wasn't feeling stable. But now, after 5 wks., the anxiety just seems to be getting worse . Can anyone give me some feedback about whether I should keep holding or if I should just go back up to 65 mg.and forget about the whole withdrawal thing.

.

Spiracle , I look forward to being part of this group . I am starting to resume my taper from ellavil . 

Began ellavil Dec. 2016 at 85 mg.

Began taper from ellavil Jan. 2018 by 5 % decrement until I got to 65 mg. March 2019. Going to resume taper on Dec. 8 2020 to 63 mg.to test the waters

 Also on 200 mg. Neurontin since March , 2008 .

 Also on 20 mg. Diazepam since June , 1981 .

 Goal is to slowly taper ellavil until I am off it despite my fears .

 My concussion doctor says it is interfering with my neural synaptic functions .

 

Link to post
  • Moderator

@Spiracle

1. At what point in the taper did the depression and anxiety start?

 

2. Is it getting worse or is it about the same from day to day?

 

3. Can you get some exercise inside, walking around?

 

4. Does the depression/anxiery lessen or worsen after you take the Elavil?

 

This restorative yoga pose is very helpful for anxiety.

 

 

 

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of June 15: 10.5mgai.  Taper is  44% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to post

Gridley. 

The depression and anxiety started about 3 weeks in and now they seem to be getting worse and worse. I have no equilibrium and am crying a lot and want to crawl out of my skin. I feel better after about an hour after taking the ellavil, but I take it at 7 pm to ensure I sleep, so it leaves me suffering most of the day.

Spiracle , I look forward to being part of this group . I am starting to resume my taper from ellavil . 

Began ellavil Dec. 2016 at 85 mg.

Began taper from ellavil Jan. 2018 by 5 % decrement until I got to 65 mg. March 2019. Going to resume taper on Dec. 8 2020 to 63 mg.to test the waters

 Also on 200 mg. Neurontin since March , 2008 .

 Also on 20 mg. Diazepam since June , 1981 .

 Goal is to slowly taper ellavil until I am off it despite my fears .

 My concussion doctor says it is interfering with my neural synaptic functions .

 

Link to post
  • Moderator

I would hold and see how you feel in two weeks.  The thing about about updosing back to to 65 is that things have changed since then in your system (further destabilization), due to the the drop to 63)  so there's no guarantee that going back up to 65 will bring you back to he same place as before.

 

I wonder if a divided dose of current dose Elevil before sleep and then during day might provide some general relief.  Just think about it.

 

 

Edited by Gridley

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of June 15: 10.5mgai.  Taper is  44% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to post

I am over 6 wks now on 63 mg of ellavil and yesterday I might have seen the first glimpse of stabilizing. I felt just a little less dizzy and less dread and anxiety and a little more energy. I was even able to shave. I hope this is a sign of stabilizing. When stabilized, I wanted to go down to 62 mg but I think my hospital will be calling me for the vaccine real soon and I do not want to get the vaccine when in withdrawal, so I'll have to delay the next taper. FYI - my psychiatrist said that I should go from 63 mg to 50 mg now and he will give me 10 mg of Prozac to make it easier. Sounds like stupidity to me. What do others think?

Spiracle , I look forward to being part of this group . I am starting to resume my taper from ellavil . 

Began ellavil Dec. 2016 at 85 mg.

Began taper from ellavil Jan. 2018 by 5 % decrement until I got to 65 mg. March 2019. Going to resume taper on Dec. 8 2020 to 63 mg.to test the waters

 Also on 200 mg. Neurontin since March , 2008 .

 Also on 20 mg. Diazepam since June , 1981 .

 Goal is to slowly taper ellavil until I am off it despite my fears .

 My concussion doctor says it is interfering with my neural synaptic functions .

 

Link to post

Since that one good day, I slipped back to feeling horrible. I'm going on 7 wks of the taper and I'm feeling hopeless. I cannot function like this. I'm thinking I should go back to 65 mg. I would try to get out and exersize but the weather has been so bad for the last 3 wks that it's not a possibility. The roads are not even passable. I'm due soon for my vaccination, but I don't know if I'd be able to do it feeling this sick. Maybe my brain just can't stabilize due to my multiple concussions. Please, can someone give me advice?

Spiracle , I look forward to being part of this group . I am starting to resume my taper from ellavil . 

Began ellavil Dec. 2016 at 85 mg.

Began taper from ellavil Jan. 2018 by 5 % decrement until I got to 65 mg. March 2019. Going to resume taper on Dec. 8 2020 to 63 mg.to test the waters

 Also on 200 mg. Neurontin since March , 2008 .

 Also on 20 mg. Diazepam since June , 1981 .

 Goal is to slowly taper ellavil until I am off it despite my fears .

 My concussion doctor says it is interfering with my neural synaptic functions .

 

Link to post
  • Moderator
On 2/17/2021 at 11:59 AM, Spiracle said:

my psychiatrist said that I should go from 63 mg to 50 mg now and he will give me 10 mg of Prozac to make it easier.

That's a huge drop 63 to 50.  We don't recommend adding n another drug to make WD easier.  Thee's no way to tell what effect the Prozac will have on you.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of June 15: 10.5mgai.  Taper is  44% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to post

My depression has become so bad, with violent imagery , chastising myself, crying intensely and not wanting to live. And it's 7 wks since I did the  2 mg cut. It has become unbearable and I'm due for my coved vaccination real soon and I wouldn't be able to do it in this condition. I went back up to 65 mg last night to help me to go get my vaccination. Then I'll reconsider another taper. Should such a small cut -3percent still be intense after 7 wks. What am I doing wrong.? Why wasn't I stabilizing.after 7 wks..?

Spiracle , I look forward to being part of this group . I am starting to resume my taper from ellavil . 

Began ellavil Dec. 2016 at 85 mg.

Began taper from ellavil Jan. 2018 by 5 % decrement until I got to 65 mg. March 2019. Going to resume taper on Dec. 8 2020 to 63 mg.to test the waters

 Also on 200 mg. Neurontin since March , 2008 .

 Also on 20 mg. Diazepam since June , 1981 .

 Goal is to slowly taper ellavil until I am off it despite my fears .

 My concussion doctor says it is interfering with my neural synaptic functions .

 

Link to post
  • Moderator
2 hours ago, Spiracle said:

What am I doing wrong.? Why wasn't I stabilizing.after 7 wks..?

7 weeks isn't that long.  It can take quite a while to stabilize.  You are obviously very sensitive in your reactions in these drugs.  I'd make no further changes. and continue to hold.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of June 15: 10.5mgai.  Taper is  44% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to post
  • 3 weeks later...
Spiracle

It is 9 weeks now that I'm on 63 mg. And I'm still feeling strong withdrawal symptoms. I'm crying a lot , feeling violent thoughts, very depressed and not sleeping well. I do not want to go back up to 65 mg. How long will I have to hold until I stabilize somewhat? Can this somehow be permanent? I still have a long way to go to get off of this drug. I realize my future cuts will have to be 1 mg. or less. Can people please give me feedback so I can keep some hope?

Spiracle , I look forward to being part of this group . I am starting to resume my taper from ellavil . 

Began ellavil Dec. 2016 at 85 mg.

Began taper from ellavil Jan. 2018 by 5 % decrement until I got to 65 mg. March 2019. Going to resume taper on Dec. 8 2020 to 63 mg.to test the waters

 Also on 200 mg. Neurontin since March , 2008 .

 Also on 20 mg. Diazepam since June , 1981 .

 Goal is to slowly taper ellavil until I am off it despite my fears .

 My concussion doctor says it is interfering with my neural synaptic functions .

 

Link to post
  • Moderator
Gridley
2 hours ago, Spiracle said:

I do not want to go back up to 65 mg. How long will I have to hold until I stabilize somewhat? Can this somehow be permanent? I still have a long way to go to get off of this drug. I realize my future cuts will have to be 1 mg. or less.

Unfortunately, there is no way to predict how long it will take to stabilize.  Every case is different.  I can tell you this is not permanent.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of June 15: 10.5mgai.  Taper is  44% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to post
  • 1 month later...
Spiracle

I finally stabilized at 12 weeks. What a horrific ride.The 2 mg drop to 63 mg was a 3% decrement. It seems that was too much for me. For my next cut, I think I will only go down 1 mg to 62 mg to make it easier. That will be about 1.5% drop. That slow pace seems crazy, but maybe my traumatic brain injuries makes my brain more sensitive to this process of withdrawing. For now, I am going to hold so I can enjoy the summer and continue with PT.

Spiracle , I look forward to being part of this group . I am starting to resume my taper from ellavil . 

Began ellavil Dec. 2016 at 85 mg.

Began taper from ellavil Jan. 2018 by 5 % decrement until I got to 65 mg. March 2019. Going to resume taper on Dec. 8 2020 to 63 mg.to test the waters

 Also on 200 mg. Neurontin since March , 2008 .

 Also on 20 mg. Diazepam since June , 1981 .

 Goal is to slowly taper ellavil until I am off it despite my fears .

 My concussion doctor says it is interfering with my neural synaptic functions .

 

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