Trevor19: Olanzapine withdrawal

[brassmonkey]

Hi @Trevor19 welcome to SA. I'm so glad you found us, but very sorry that you are having so much trouble with your drugs. Would you please start a thread for your self in the introduction forum. That will be the best place for asking questions and keeping records. Please give us as much information as possible about your situation so we can get a full understanding and be able to better help you.

[Trevor19]

Hi

My name is Trevor. My pdoc placed me on olanzapine 20mg daily., I have been on the drug for only a month thought I could withdraw abruptly due side effect of the drug. 

3 days of being off the drug was hell..

A pharmacist friend introduced medical marijuana (cbd oil) which helped me sleep for a while and then stopped working. 

Now its been a week and five days i came off olanzapine and I only sleep 1-2hours that’s even if I sleep at all.  

 

I don’t know if I will get better or should I go back on olanzapine and start tapering? 

Thanks you,

Trevor.

Edited March 7, 2021 by manymoretodays

[Trevor19]

Hi

My name is Trevor from Nigeria. My pdoc placed me on olanzapine 20mg daily, I have been on the drug for only a month thought I could withdraw abruptly due side effect of the drug.         

3days of being off the drug was hell. A pharmacist friend introduced medical marijuana (cbd oil) for sleep which worked for a while and then stoped working.

 

It’s been 13days now am off the drug, My pharmacist placed me on omega 3 supplement, Epilim 200mg and Aspain to sleep. I sleep 3-4hours each night 

 

I don’t know if I will get better or should I go back on olanzapine and start tapering? 

Thank you, @brassmonkey

Trevor

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Trevor19.  This is your Introduction topic.  Only one Introduction topic per member, so please don't start any new topics.  We have a small staff of volunteers and sometimes it takes a little time to respond to members.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Withdrawal can result from only a month of use of psychiatric drugs, so it's not surprising that you're suffering from insomnia, which is one of the most common withdrawal symptoms.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain the healing process really well.

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

On 1/24/2021 at 1:40 AM, Trevor19 said:

don’t know if I will get better or should I go back on olanzapine and start tapering? 

 

Reinstatement of a very small dosage of your previous drug is the only known way to alleviate withdrawal.  Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.  The alternative is to wait until your system stabilizes, but there's no way to predict how long that will take.  If you decide to reinstate, you should not reinstate the full 20mg Olanzapine you were taking.  Your system is very sensitized and taking too much can overwhelm it and make things worse.  3-4 hours sleep per night isn't really that bad for someone in withdrawal.

 

 If you decide you want to reinstate, I'drecommend reinstating 1mg Olanzapine--no more.  The following link explains how to get the small dose you'd need for a reinstatement.

 

Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

 

It takes four days for the reinstated dose to reach full strength in your blood steams and a few days longer to register in your brain, so be patient and give it time to work.  Reinstatement is one of those situations where more in definitely not better.  If reinstatement does work for you, it can take several months to stabilize.  

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that ae single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can complete your drug signature, questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Gridley

[Trevor19]

Thank you so much for getting back @GridleyI don’t plan on reinstatement or putting back the poison into my system. I think I will be patient while waiting to heal 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

Hi Trevor19,

I am sorry for ur suffering but l am happy to hear u got ur self out of the antipsychotic sooner than later. No one can tell u for sure if the best choice for you would be reinstainment or riding the symptoms of discontinuation but based on my personal experience with an antidepressant (Zoloft poison) I think you are making the correct choice. I was on low dose of Zoloft for 4 weeks and had crazy side effects, and instead of stopping it I did a taper for another four weeks (from 25mg to zero) and the next 3 months OFF Zoloft has been a nightmare that I have no words to describe. The good news is that I am at least 50% better today (exactly 3 months off) but I think if I had just stopped or done a fast one week tapper, I wouldn’t have suffered so immensely. Hoping u ll recover faster and easier than me, it is good u only have one symptom, I have had over 10 symptoms during and after Zoloft discontinuation (NEVER had these symptoms before Zoloft) feeling like I  am about to either end up in a psychiatric yard or just die. You ll heal faster than me I am sure... 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Trevor19 and welcome,

When did you start the Eplim?

And I'm finding the Eplim is another psychotropic drug, also called Sodium Valproate.

 

Epilim is a medicine used to for the treatment of epilepsy in adults and children. Epilepsy is a condition where you have repeated seizures (fits). There are many different types of seizures, ranging from mild to severe. Epilim belongs to a group of medicines called anticonvulsants.

Epilim (Sodium Valproate) Drug / Medicine Information

 

It's often used for mood stabilization, and brain dulling, or apparently sleep.

 

And it does sound like your body adapted in the months time that you were on it, to the Olanzapine.

Or adapted a bit around the olanzapine.  And that can be one of the most common WD(withdrawal) difficulties with it, the insomnia.

 

That's also a pretty high dosage, of Olanzapine, for sleep.

Is that why your doctor put you on it?

How did you do on olanzapine?

And how are you doing now?  Any other symptoms besides the sleeplessness?

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur. And sleep is really important during withdrawal.  Insomnia is no small deal. 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system.   Read through these links, at least the first couple of posts in them, to see if what you have started makes sense so far.  We've got a lot of information around here.  I hope you like reading.

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

And it looks like you've started some Omega 3's now.  What dose did you start at?

 

Can you update your signature, with the date that you started the Epilim?

Just go to AccountSettings/Signatures and then hit save when you have it updated

 

Also when do you take your drug(s) and supplements?

 

Welcome Trevor19, and best.  I'm just wanting to gather a bit more information right now, prior to any suggests.  And so thank you.  And thank you for getting to your signature as well!  Excellent.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

Edited January 25, 2021 by manymoretodays

[Trevor19]

I started taking Epilim on the 21 of January which is 5days ago. 

My doctor put me on olanzapine because I explain to her I don’t get much sleep at night. Since I started olanzapine I feel like am in mental prison. I’m less focused can’t concentrate on my studies, and am in my final year in school.

 

I think sleeplessness is the only symptoms I have. What should I do about Epilim since am withdrawing form olanzapine? @manymoretodays

[Hopela]

1 hour ago, Trevor19 said:

My doctor put me on olanzapine because I explain to her I don’t get much sleep at night

First measure and for having sleep problems: 20mg Olanzapine. I would call it a criminally bad action. Good call to come off and joining site to get guidance. Good luck!

[Trevor19]

4 hours ago, Hopela said:

Good call to come off and joining site to get guidance. Good luck!

Thank you. @Hopela

[Trevor19]

19 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

And sleep is really important during withdrawal.  Insomnia is no small deal. 

Yes you’re right! I get really scared in the evening... any suggestions on what I should do @manymoretodays

[manymoretodays]

Thanks Trevor19. For answering questions so well.

 

Hey, do you have any olanzapine left?

 

7 hours ago, Trevor19 said:

My doctor put me on olanzapine because I explain to her I don’t get much sleep at night. Since I started olanzapine I feel like am in mental prison. I’m less focused can’t concentrate on my studies, and am in my final year in school.

 

I think sleeplessness is the only symptoms I have. What should I do about Epilim since am withdrawing form olanzapine?

 

Any improvement in the "mental prison" feeling?  Since off the olanzapine.

 

On 1/24/2021 at 1:06 AM, Trevor19 said:

Now its been a week and five days i came off olanzapine and I only sleep 1-2hours that’s even if I sleep at all.

 

On 1/24/2021 at 11:31 PM, Trevor19 said:

I sleep 3-4hours each night 

 

Did the sleep improve with the Epilim? 

The 3-4 hours is better than the 1-2 hours, so that's good..........don't freak out, or get too scared Trevor.  Are you able to get to classes, and get most of your schoolwork done?

 

I wanted to see what the other moderators thought too, so check on back for more replies.

 

In the meantime.........you can have a look at some of the sleep tips here:

 

Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

And best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[Trevor19]

Yes I still have a packet of olanzapine pill left (10mg)

There’s been improvement, i don’t feel dizzy, weak or depressed while off olanzapine. I have more energy now...

 

I have been able to get to classes but haven’t done most of my schoolwork.

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

Did the sleep improve with the Epilim? 

Yes I think I slept 5hours yesterday @manymoretodays

[manymoretodays]

3 minutes ago, Trevor19 said:

Yes I still have a packet of olanzapine pill left (10mg)

There’s been improvement, i don’t feel dizzy, weak or depressed while off olanzapine. I have more energy now...

 

Oh yay, or great on ^

 

I'm just going give you what we've got on:  Tips for tapering off Zyprexa(olanzapine)

 

And:  Tips for tapering off sodium valproate and valproic acid(divalproex sodium, Depakote, Depakene)

* you'll find some more on Epilim ^

 

And since you've only been on the Epilim(Sodium Valproate) now for 5 days, my hope is that it has not caused too much dependency.

What kind of Epilim do you have?  I mean is it a capsule or a pill/tablet?

 

If it was me, I'd want off, and as quick as possible.  We'll often advise quick tapers of decreasing the dose by 1/4, until off.......when someone has not been on a drug for long.

The problem of insomnia getting worse again, may recur though.  And you've not really recovered from that too well yet.

Olanzapine WD can be pretty awful with the insomnia.  And I went through that, to some degree.......way back in time, when coming off of that drug myself.    I got really thrown into some anxiety too, at that time, as I recall.......or maybe it was just inner agitation and restlessness.  Unfortunately, I probably wound up re-medicated for it, at some point then.

 

So.....a bit more for you to look at now, and think about, while we wait to see what Altostrata has to say, or another moderator.

 

Your doing great Trevor19.  I too, don't get it........why you were ever put on the olanzapine to begin with.  Ugh, ugh, ugh!!!!!!!!!!

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[Trevor19]

I got this message late it’s 8:29pm here, I already took my 6th Epilim few minutes ago. 

The kind of Epilim I take is tablet/pill

54 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

  I too, don't get it........why you were ever put on the olanzapine to begin with.  Ugh, ugh, ugh!!!!!!!!!!

My parents noticed i haven’t been sleeping for a while at home, they advised me to meet a psychiatrist, I didn’t want to go at first but then agreed.

So they took me to the hospital the next morning. I meet a doctor she only asked me few questions! She didn’t diagnosed me or run any test, Next thing she did was to prescribe  olanzapine 10mg at day and 10mg at night for 3month. I wasn’t aware of risk and the danger of this poison. @manymoretodays

[Trevor19]

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

If it was me, I'd want off, and as quick as possible.  We'll often advise quick tapers of decreasing the dose by 1/4, until off.......when someone has not been on a drug for long.

I have only been on them six days now isn’t it possible to just stop them abruptly? @manymoretodays

[manymoretodays]

Dropping by 1/4 of your dose each taper, would be considered pretty abrupt.......had you been on it the Sodium Valproate longer. 

And you might find that even with a lower dose, it still helps your sleep, and then you could taper off later.  And you have less to taper off from, correctly, or in the more harm reduction way.

 

No worries Trevor19, on having taken your dose already. 

And I'm still waiting to further input too, so we can get the best suggests for your case.  So, no worries, okay?

 

And I know.......again, don't freak out.......I'm glad that you are not on all that olanzapine right now, aren't you?  You are going to be fine, top notch.......soon.  I'm thinking you'll do really well.  And so glad you did find us too!

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @Trevor19

 

I am sorry your doctor foolishly prescribed an antipsychotic for sleep. Sodium Valproate is another antipsychotic.

 

Did the Sodium Valproate help your sleep problem at all? If not, since you've been taking it only about a week, you might simply stop it.

 

If I were you, I'd make a liquid from the olanzapine you have left and take 1mg per night to ease the withdrawal symptoms. This topic explains how to make a liquid Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

 

You would stay on this for some weeks, at least until your sleep returns, and then taper off by tiny amounts. If you can, you should get a prescription for a compounded liquid from a pharmacy.

 

Since you had prior sleep problems, you probably should make some lifestyle changes so you don't have that problem any more. See

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

[Trevor19]

11 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

11 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

I'm glad that you are not on all that olanzapine right now, aren't you?  You are going to be fine, top notch.......soon.  I'm thinking you'll do really well.  And so glad you did find us too!

I’m glad too! Thank you so much @manymoretodays

[Bobblehead]

Hello Trevor19, welcome to the forums.

 

I've been on Olanzapine for almost two decades at 40mg/day. I started my taper 4 years ago, its been a rough ride, once I went below 5mg I started have insomnia problems too. I've read many stories on the internet and withdrawal insomnia is very common and apparently long lasting. I've read about people who still have insomnia after 10-12 months. Unfortunately I've only read a few success stories about quitting.

 

I've been off Olanzapine 8 weeks today and my insomnia is no better than when it started. I've tried antihistamines, supplements, benzos and antidepressants to help me sleep but they don't work that well. I am very seriously considering reinstating tonight and see what happens. I haven't decided whether to reinstate at 2.5mg or 5mg but I feel like crap from lack of sleep and the withdrawal. This website has a page about reinstating at a low dose and raise it slowly until you stabilize.

 

There are others on this forum with the same Olanzapine withdrawal insomnia as you, you are not alone. It's definitely a struggle. I hope things work out for you.

[Trevor19]

Thank you @Altostrata 

I was able to make liquid olanzapine from the tablet I have left, I will be taking 1mg per night. 

Should I add any supplement like omega’s? 

 

How many weeks interval should I tapper when my sleep returns?

 

At what tiny amount would you suggest? 

[Rebmik5555]

I would suggest, if you can, to join a Facebook group called Zyprexa should be illegal...unfortunately we have lost our moderator so I'm not sure if they are adding and new people.  If they do look at the files section.  There is very specific information regarding tapering Zyprexa, including a spreadsheet.  I was tapering 5% every 2 weeks.  That is not 5% of the original dose, but 5% of each previous dose, but that was too fast, so I am now at 2.5% and sometimes have to hold that dose for up to a month to stabilize.  It is without a doubt the most crippling medication and absolute horror to get off of...but going slow and low you can reduce and get off of it.  I was put on it for sleep too, which is criminal that doctors are doing this.  A moderator said you have to sneak away from Zyprexa, I just keep telling myself that....my sleep is ok now, but can become poor if I taper too quickly.

Good luck.

[Bobblehead]

@Rebmik5555 Thanks, I was able to download it

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hey Trevor19,

And you are welcome.

I just did some quoting and moving some of the posts more pertaining to Bobblehead, to Bobbleheads topic.  And then hi again Rebmik5555, I just moved and asked about one of your posts, on your topic too.  And yes, yes........I agree, sneak on down, ever so slowly.  That's what the taper by 10% of previous dosage, is all about.  Harm reduction and then hopefully too.......I mean I hope that some can taper, without getting into much WD.

2 hours ago, Rebmik5555 said:

 A moderator said you have to sneak away from Zyprexa, I just keep telling myself that....my sleep is ok now, but can become poor if I taper too quickly.

So anyway, thank you for participating here.

 

3 hours ago, Trevor19 said:

I was able to make liquid olanzapine from the tablet I have left, I will be taking 1mg per night. 

Should I add any supplement like omega’s? 

 

How many weeks interval should I tapper when my sleep returns?

 

At what tiny amount would you suggest? 

 

And I'm just going to jump in here too Trevor19.   On the supplements:

 

On 1/25/2021 at 1:08 PM, manymoretodays said:

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

And it looks like you've started some Omega 3's now.  What dose did you start at?

 

Do stick with single ingredient supplements though(rather than any that have more than one ingredient in them), and then just make one change at a time, start low with one or the other.  That way you know better,  what might be responsible for any new symptoms.

 

And then, as you stated, you last got 4-5 hours of sleep, which is fabulous........really.  And so, as you transition to the olanzapine reinstatement, you may get some bumps.  Often stabilization, and then even healing is not linear.

 

So.......use all the non-drug coping that you can.  You'll see some, in the above posts.  Don't panic, or freak out........easy to say, huh?

 

And then, I'm thinking a couple of months, before you might consider a nice slow taper, even from the 1 mg of olanzapine. 

 

Please keep us updated as well.

 

And best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[Trevor19]

16 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

And then, I'm thinking a couple of months, before you might consider a nice slow taper, even from the 1 mg of olanzapine. 

 

Please keep us updated as well.

 

And best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

Alright, I will for sure.... thanks for the help so far. @manymoretodays

[Trevor19]

 

Hi @manymoretodays

After I reinstated I felt relief in my system. I have been sleeping for 7hours although I had a little insomnia yesterday which is probably the bumps(waves) you’re talking about.... I’m motivated to go through this journey.

 

I’m using (10mg in 20mL) then I measure 1mg using 2mL syringe as my daily dose.

 

I’m a bit confused at tapering.... since 1mg is 2mL syringe, you said nice slow taper so if I keep reducing my dose gradually (3 weeks intervals) when I get to 0.1mg which is the last line of my syringe would that be a good point to jump off? 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Trevor19,

Yes, you have 1 mg of active ingredient now, of the olanzapine, in each 2 mL.

And so......when you do start to taper off this, there's a simple way to do the math, to figure out what a 10% drop looks like from your current dose.

1 mg X .90 = 0.9 mg, which is then the dose strength that you would go to next

 

With the concentration you have, that would measure out in liquid to be 1.8 mL

 

Have you discontinued the Epilim?

 

Thanks.  L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[Trevor19]

Yes, I have discontinued Epilim a week ago. Also I don’t take any supplement either.... I really think am doing ok without them. 

Thanks for getting back @manymoretodays

[Trevor19]

Hi @brassmonkey I read getting to zero isn’t the end of it ‘wow’ my question is can you still struggle from insomnia even as you slowly taper to zero? 

[brassmonkey]

Insomnia is one of the more prevalent ADWD symptoms. It comes and goes throughout the entire tapering process and in some cases can continue on for a while even after reaching "0". Although it is not dangerous people tend to find it very upsetting which causes anxiety which cause more insomnia. There is a lot of information about dealing with insomnia on the site a quick search should bring it up.

[Trevor19]

Ok that sounds convincing,thanks brassmonkey.. am yet to stabilize on 1mg before I start to taper off it. I’m only afraid that if reach zero i might still be struggling with insomnia which make me want to lose hope.

 

When I start to taper in a month time, I will be doing 10% reduction every 3 weeks don’t know if it’s too fast but I Feel since I was on AD for a month I can go for 3 weeks reduction.

 

Also I make liquid suspension of olanzapine using syringe to get 1mg so I calculated my tapering it will take me a year to get down from 1mg to 0.1mg and then make the jump.. it’s ok right? @brassmonkey

[brassmonkey]

You'll have to pay close attention to how your body is reacting to each reduction. 10% every 3 weeks is pretty fast and can cause unresolved symptoms to back up until they cause a crash. Waiting for that crash to stabilize before you can taper again can take a very long time. It usually goes a lot faster to take things slowly and not rush the original taper.

 

Using the numbers you mention yes it will take about a year to get to 0.1mg. In my opinion 0.1mg is on the high end of the scale to make the jump. I would aim for 0.02mg, but again, it s up to how your body is reacting to the reductions when you get there.

[Trevor19]

Ok I understand the part of going slow 10% every 4 weeks which is recommended on the site. Let me explain better where am really confused at. 

I’m using (10mg in 20mL)then I measure out 1mg using 2mL syringe as my daily dose.

So I did my calculations and found out that the last line on the 2mL syringe would be 0.1mg which is a drop I think. Before your last reply I actually thought that’s was my last dose strength. To be honest I really have no idea how I can get down to 0.02mg from that. 

@brassmonkey

[Tattycorum]

6 hours ago, Trevor19 said:

....I’m using (10mg in 20mL)then I measure out 1mg using 2mL syringe as my daily dose....

To be honest I really have no idea how I can get down to 0.02mg from that. 

@brassmonkey

At the appropriate time, you could change the dilution to 10mg in 40mL or 100mL or 200mL (etc.) and do the math to be able to use the existing syringe to get the dose you want. This is what I have done as I taper down at exit.  

[Trevor19]

Thanks but I still need detailed information on how to get down to 0.02mg... 

So you mean If I double the dilution 10mg in 40mL and use the existing syringe 2mL, I will have an active ingredient of 0.09mg as my starting point. Not sure if am correct... @Tattycorum

[Tattycorum]

I find it easier to use a dropper like this. And I use a beaker to measure the dilution. Anyway:

So, currently you are diluting 10 mg in 20mL, so each mL is 0.5 mg. 

If you dilute 10 mg in 50 mL, then each mL is 0.2 mg.

If you dilute 10 mg in 500 mL, then each mL is 0.02 mg.

 

So... Make a chart of the target dosages you want to taper at, and use arithmetic to calculate how much dilution of the 10mg will create each target dose as one mL (or two, or however it is easier to measure.)

 

Something like this, below. The formula is divide 10 by your target dose in Mg to see how many mL of dilution you need to yield your target dose in one mL of solution.  Hope this helps!

 

 

...