HardWork: looking for guidance

[HardWork]

Hi, I am new here and so awe-inspired by this supportive network of intelligent informed people. I am tapering off Lithium, doing it slowly. The problem is I haven’t found yet the right psychiatrist... Can anyone share a psych in New York who is taper-savvy & patient-friendly? Also, any live support group for ppl in the tapering process? I so appreciate this support! Good luck to all who are sweating this through! Take of yourself!
<Desperate>

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @HardWork

 

FYI, here's Tips for tapering off lithium

 

We offer online support, please do post here about how you're doing. 

 

To connect with others near you, see New York members, please check in here

[HardWork]

Thank you so much! I will surely check out “tips on tapering off Lithium”. Going through withdrawal waves currently, makes it too difficult for me to concentrate to share how I’m doing🙄... At the same time increase in clarity and stability with each taper is what keeps me going... So in the meantime I’ll find support from shares of others and other info on this website, which is hard as well; computer screens are dizzying these days. I am very educated in tapering & about psych-bluff, despite my zombie-ing state I managed to educate myself through books and sites. I do a huge amount of self care and stress reduction. The way I feel now is GOLD compared to where I’m coming from (tapering over a year already, very very slow). I’m grateful for the way I’m feeling, out of zombie land! Searching for a (anti)psychiatrist- even out of NY, it’s all virtual anyhow now with Covid... Keep it up! You’re truly the best!!!!!

[Altostrata]

Thank you! Please do make yourself at home in our community.

[HardWork]

Hi! I finally received my medication from a compounding pharmacy after struggling with breaking pills in quarters for such a long time... Ordered my meds from a diff state, I feel so accomplished! Before I start taking it, Im wondering- is there anything to beware of?, like- can different brand cause more side-effects, or anything else to watch out? Or is compounding all good and i should just go ahead with taking it? If yes, Id love to start tonight! so please let me know asap!! Thank you so much!!

Also, can I relate my grueling side-effects to pill-cutting, as its impossible to cut evenly?

[brassmonkey]

I saw this on one of the other forums and felt that it would be better to answer it here.

 

"Hi! I finally received my medication from a compounding pharmacy after struggling with breaking pills in quarters for such a long time... Ordered my meds from a diff state, I feel so accomplished! Before I start taking it, Im wondering- is there anything to beware of?, like- can different brand cause more side-effects, or anything else to watch out? Or is compounding all good and i should just go ahead with taking it? If yes, Id love to start tonight! so please let me know asap!! Thank you so much!!

Also, can I relate my grueling side-effects to pill-cutting, as its impossible to cut evenly?"

 

There should be little trouble with switching to the compounded pills. Your dosing will be more accurate and it will make things easier all around. There should be no problem with starting tonight. You will probably find that having a more consistent dose will help mitigate some of your symptoms.

 

In the past we have seen that some people will react differently to different brands of the same medication, so there is a possibility that this could happen for you. Also there can be a sensitivity to changing how ones dose is prepared, so just the change from cutting up pills to using a compounded pill could also cause an uptick in symptoms. Unless either is a very severe reaction then it is just something that needs to be put up with until it settles down, which can take several days to several weeks, but tings will settle down. This is not to scare you but to bring the possibility to your attention so you won't be shocked if it were to happen.

[HardWork]

Thank you so much! Another question that came up... I took Lithium ER until now (took entire dose, 825 at night) The compounding dose is SR- slow release. Do I need to divide dosage over the day? If yes, how many times (I got 3 capsules per dosage). Im pretty forgetful these days, dividing would make it trickier, but if I need to I will...

Also, is an uptick in symptoms common? Because I generally do fear symptoms! (and definitely dont want to go through self-placeboed-symptoms.

Thanks again!!!!

[brassmonkey]

There shouldn't be much difference between the ER and the SR. About the only way to tell is give it a try and see how it goes. If there is a spike of symptoms during the day, then spreading out the dose might be called for. Keep a symptom diary to try and pinpoint any fluctuations.

[HardWork]

Thanks! The pharmacy did say it’s different... Is there better chance to first decrease to 750- whole pills only, and then switch to compounded pills? Thanks for your patience!

Also, is there a good psychiatrist in the US you can recommend? I’m too bleared from meds to go through the list or research. Thanks in advance!

[HardWork]

I did switch over to compounded pills last night! Twas a big step as im petrified of physical symptoms... At first i had like acid reflux (maybe twas just fear) but now in the morning feeling so great! So far so good... Thank you so much for your assistance! And thank you to everyone who is helping out! Its the first time in 10 YEARS that i actually have support in everything i intuitively knew, yet was in it all alone! Heartwarming!!! Thank you once again!!!

Ps i havent yet come across one insane message from all these "mentally-ill" participants... 

Any recommendation for a good (non) psychiatrist who is taper-savvy and non-controlling? As well as a therapist? Thanks in advance

[HardWork]

Follow up: first 3-4 days on compound felt heavy at night, and mild detachment, fizzled/waves in head by day. But I think I’m fine now. Still have agitation at end of day- things turn me off fast, losing temper/control. It’s not terrible, just hard to control. Food helps. 
physically I feel a lot better- like a sea after storm, & my mind much clearer...

Is it safer to divide dosage into day/night... Or is it ok to leave it to just night?

Another question: thinking of DBT therapy... Is it worth a try? Please try to respond as I need to follow up with DBT therapist whether I’m interested. Thanks in advance!

[HardWork]

Hi, thanks to the good-hearted people who have helped me until now. I am a brand new person on compounded pills! Whoa! No comparison... so many side-effects gone! Much clearer, more grounded, & all horrible physical effects are history... words can’t really describe... Pharmacy said it’s due to the fact that they don’t use additives/inactive ingredients that commercial pills have.

2 questions- 1. Is there a psychiatrist that can help me with tapering PLEASE? So far I’m seeing someone for Medicaid who is that birdbrained; has the benefit that she just listens to ME. I’m the one controlling the taper COMPLETELY. All for free... but I do need the support. Any suggestions?

2. when is it considered a bad withdrawal reaction and when is it normal? In other words- how do I know if my 10% taper is not considered too fast? Here’s the thing- I feel really miserable at first but then back to normal. Is that considered regular.. I do match up my bad symptoms to broken pills though, wasn’t so miserable on whole pills I think. (When my previous $400 psychiatrist went too fast, when I was still ignorant, yep those were dangerous reactions no doubt (close to mania-from lithium. And dissociation- from Zoloft)- are those the too fast signals we’re looking for? Or even milder is not okay) what are the tell tales to go slower? The fact that my symptoms eventually go away is good enough (although maybe harsh- or normal, not sure..,)? I wait 3 months bet doses, I don’t feel safer to go faster. 
Thanks for reading! I hope I was clear enough... Looking forward to your response!

[HardWork]

6 minutes ago, HardWork said:

Hi, thanks to the good-hearted people who have helped me until now. I am a brand new person on compounded pills! Whoa! No comparison... so many side-effects gone! Much clearer, more grounded, & all horrible physical effects are history... words can’t really describe... Pharmacy said it’s due to the fact that they don’t use additives/inactive ingredients that commercial pills have.

2 questions- 1. Is there a psychiatrist that can help me with tapering PLEASE? So far I’m seeing someone for Medicaid who is that birdbrained; has the benefit that she just listens to ME. I’m the one controlling the taper COMPLETELY. All for free... but I do need the support. Any suggestions?

2. when is it considered a bad withdrawal reaction and when is it normal? In other words- how do I know if my 10% taper is not considered too fast? Here’s the thing- I feel really miserable at first but then back to normal. Is that considered regular.. I do match up my bad symptoms to broken pills though, wasn’t so miserable on whole pills I think. (When my previous $400 psychiatrist went too fast, when I was still ignorant, yep those were dangerous reactions no doubt (close to mania-from lithium. And dissociation- from Zoloft)- are those the too fast signals we’re looking for? Or even milder is not okay) what are the tell tales to go slower? The fact that my symptoms eventually go away is good enough (although maybe harsh- or normal, not sure..,)? I wait 3 months bet doses, I don’t feel safer to go faster. 
Thanks for reading! I hope I was clear enough... Looking forward to your response!

 

[HardWork]

Thanks for your amazing work! Compounds work fantastic! The support on this website keeps me going! Finally finally I’m starting to feel SO MUCH CLEARER!!! Able to express more concise as well… Today- June 16, 2021, congratulations- first time I had the clarity to create my signature! Was impossible beforehand…. Thanks again! Just recently, by my first post I hardly knew my name. Keep it up!!!!!

[siderale]

Hello @HardWork! I have no advice to offer regarding lithium taper, but I am happy to read such a good update. It is so encouraging to feel clearer!

I never heard about compounding before, it sounds super helpful.

Best of luck with your taper off!

[HardWork]

Thank you so much for your encouraging words!

[HardWork]

Do you have or know of a helpful psychiatrist or tapering coach?

[Altostrata]

Hello, @HardWork, we wish we could refer all our members to knowledgeable doctors! They are very few. See Recommended doctors, therapists, and clinics

 

It sounds like you're doing well reducing with your compounded doses. How much are you taking now? What has your tapering schedule been?

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[Altostrata]

Hello, @HardWork, how are you doing?

[HardWork]

Hi, thanks for getting back. sorry about delayed response, i dont have constant online access. Yes Im a BRAND NEW PERSON on compounds!!- much clearer and calmer! Will decrease to 675 this week.. 

Btw are you aware that compounding pharmacies leave out a lot of the toxins of the meds? Not sure if all of them, but they told me they omit all the inactive ingredients, like red dye, preservatives, glue etc etc... its LITHIUM ONLY. Therefore i felt miraculously better just by switchng to compounds even before reducing dosage!

-Question- does it make sense it takes me 3 months to feel ready (solid and stable on ground) for next dose, when its just 10%? or should i try a different style, like 5% every other week? or maybe i should stick to 10% every 3 months and not rock the boat? or any other suggestion?

Thanks a million for helping me!!!😍

[HardWork]

Hi @Altostrata, finally figuring out this site... A week on 675mg, doing well. on commercial meds symptoms were mental (anxiety, energized, depersonalization etc) on compounds symptoms are physical-hard but much easier than menta! (flu-like, corona like. sinus, colds, acid reflux)

I have 2 questions- 1- I saw on this site that supplements besides for omega-magnesium arent recommended. so i recently stopped them though i was believer in supplements, maybe itll help my withrawal. can u explain to me why not or send link to that info? (dont rmmbr where i saw it)

2- diff subject. i was on 900 lithium throughout pregnancy. my child was born w no serious issues, yet has issues all the time (enlarged tonsils/adenoids, sometimes immature-can stop using bathroom etc etc) is there a way to detox/make sure she has detoxed?...

 id appreciate a response to question i posted earlier as well.

thanks in advance!!

[HardWork]

Any beneficial app for tapering... for tracking dosages with symptoms/progress...with graph/calculation over time?

[Altostrata]

TaperTracker is a phone app. Also see How to calculate dosages and dilutions? Spreadsheets and calculators

 

From what we've seen fish oil and magnesium are the most consistently beneficial for withdrawal symptoms, but some people are so sensitized, they cannot tolerate even fish oil and magnesium. Other supplements may or may not be helpful and some sold specifically for withdrawal are outright scams.

 

The B vitamins and vitamin D can be activating -- causing symptoms of anxiety, sleeplessness, etc.

 

Use search in the Symptoms and Self-Care forum to find discussions of specific supplements.

 

By this time, I am sure your child does not currently have more than a normal amount of lithium in her body.

 

On 7/28/2021 at 1:02 PM, HardWork said:

-Question- does it make sense it takes me 3 months to feel ready (solid and stable on ground) for next dose, when its just 10%? or should i try a different style, like 5% every other week?

 

Either makes sense! You might find a reduction of 5% every other week to be much more tolerable. Be sure to keep notes of your dosages and when you change them, so you can trace back if your symptom pattern changes.

 

To answer your earlier question, in my opinion, DBT may be helpful for just about any thoughtful person.

 

Good to see you taking charge of your taper!

[HardWork]

Thank you @Altostrata! Recently read about brassmonkey taper. 2.5% per week, then hold for 2 weeks. body constantly adjusting to change is more tolerable? I guess bec doses are smaller? Is that the most tolerable taper? I wanna take the quickest (of slowest) route.. and safety first of course

Doing DBT for 3 months already (if my brain still calculates correctly), as meds are lowered i feel less and less the need. and it wouldnt help when my brain was haywire.. yes enjoying it as any thoughtful person...

I dont care about sense, just wondering if im overdoing it, if im imagining that the landing happens at 3 months, or that the concept is real

Thanks for links and your encouraging support Altostrata! Will check them out...

@brassmonkey, may i have your input as well on a suitable tapering style for me?

Thank you so much!

[HardWork]

.

[HardWork]

@Altostrata, Is there a possibility the supplements are what interferes w a quicker taper? Hope I didnt make a mistake by dropping them... Can you please send the link where you explain abt neuro-emotions and supplements... Dont rememberwhere i saw it. thanks

[HardWork]

I love this calculator http://www.taperoff.co... thanks @Altostrata. should i just go by this?  the sad reality is that the ppl who need it most cant grapple themselves out of it 😣. Im watching myself getting clearer and clearer thanks to SA, and slowly slowly improving my tapeting method as im a little healthier... i feel like butterfly paining its way out of a cocoon. Cant wait to pick up my wings and FLY!

question: i had asked abt dr not bec i need/want one! my healing started when i LEFT the doctors! its just that my husband is a believer in doctors, (he thinks im still w a dr) i need him to hear from "DOCTOR" that i dont need meds, and thatvi dont hv any diagnosis...

BTW im doing something very smart. Doing a journal in dialogue form of doctor visits where i am my own doctor. what id say/want to hear as doctor/patient

for example-

doctor: in our practice we believe that patients know best. we doctors dont have magic thinking caps to see through your brain, we dont do blood work either. we are EQUAL HUMANS. we cant evaluate your brain EVER. If anything, your BETTER at it since you own your self. you have your customized intuition

Me: wow so glad to be your patient. that is so validating but scary at the same time. i am not sure i can do this myself

Doctor:theres nothing to fear and nothing to do. your bodys intelligence together with your inelligence is all built in

Me: that makes sense. But still withdrawal is a delicate matter

Doctor: oh, thats what im here for. for some support and guidance, while you lead. ill give you some tips and tricks and what to look out for.. we can discuss that. are you ready?... 

Etc etc etc

This is VERY HEALING for me... Having lots of Self-doctoring appointments.. with cartoons and caricatures as well to help me laugh from my doctors in a strong way (was petrified to let go of them.) this method gave me a very strong sense of security as well as "re-dctoring" myself w love heals the trauma i had from my doctors. yes trauma!

[brassmonkey]

" I wanna take the quickest (of slowest) route.. and safety first of course"

 

If this is what you are looking for in a taper, then the standard Brassmonkey Slide will be the best. If you go with a lower percentage reduction you will add significant time to the process, as well as if you add longer holds. Now, each person needs to individually adjust their taper to fit how their body reacts. We have great success with the standard Brassmonkey Slide, but some people find it to be a bit harsh and need to go with a smaller percentage reduction.

 

Our starting recommended taper is a straight cut of 10% with a 4 week hold. This usually gives a very hard hit of symptoms in the first couple of days that then take at least four weeks to calm down before you do it again. It can be quite shocking to the body and many people have problems with it.  The idea behind the Brassmonkey Slide is to still reduce by 10% but spread it over several smaller reductions and then give it some time to settle out. This cuts the initial symptom hit substantially by spreading it out. Yes it takes a bit longer, but it is much more comfortable. There is also a reduced need for adding extended holds throughout the taper period. 

[Altostrata]

Yes, you can use that calculator.

 

This is brilliant! Please start your own topic about this in Symptoms and Self-Care!

15 hours ago, HardWork said:

 the sad reality is that the ppl who need it most cant grapple themselves out of it 😣. Im watching myself getting clearer and clearer thanks to SA, and slowly slowly improving my tapeting method as im a little healthier... i feel like butterfly paining its way out of a cocoon. Cant wait to pick up my wings and FLY!

question: i had asked abt dr not bec i need/want one! my healing started when i LEFT the doctors! its just that my husband is a believer in doctors, (he thinks im still w a dr) i need him to hear from "DOCTOR" that i dont need meds, and thatvi dont hv any diagnosis...

BTW im doing something very smart. Doing a journal in dialogue form of doctor visits where i am my own doctor. what id say/want to hear as doctor/patient

for example-

doctor: in our practice we believe that patients know best. we doctors dont have magic thinking caps to see through your brain, we dont do blood work either. we are EQUAL HUMANS. we cant evaluate your brain EVER. If anything, your BETTER at it since you own your self. you have your customized intuition

Me: wow so glad to be your patient. that is so validating but scary at the same time. i am not sure i can do this myself

Doctor:theres nothing to fear and nothing to do. your bodys intelligence together with your inelligence is all built in

Me: that makes sense. But still withdrawal is a delicate matter

Doctor: oh, thats what im here for. for some support and guidance, while you lead. ill give you some tips and tricks and what to look out for.. we can discuss that. are you ready?... 

Etc etc etc

This is VERY HEALING for me... Having lots of Self-doctoring appointments.. with cartoons and caricatures as well to help me laugh from my doctors in a strong way (was petrified to let go of them.) this method gave me a very strong sense of security as well as "re-dctoring" myself w love heals the trauma i had from my doctors. yes trauma!

 

[Greatful]

@HardWork  I was reading through your thread.  You are doing fantastic.  I love your attitude, you sound very bubbly. 

 

Have you  had a chance to look over the whole SA site?  A lot of information that might answer some of your questions.  Symptoms & Self-Care forum is a good place to start.

Also check out the success stories.  Really motivational.

I will check in with you later.

Click on the title and it should open

 

[HardWork]

Thank you @Greatful! Your words are so encouraging and mean so much to me! Havent read all of SA, theres a lot, did read part of it.. thanks for guiding me where to find the info i need. Really appreciate it! You seem so clear, hope youre doing well!

[HardWork]

Thanks @Altostrata! I will start it in symptoms and self-care.... I feel honored you added it to Best of SA...

QUESTION: Lately Ive been experiencing chills in my head, not just chills- along with teightening, cant describe it. wonder if thats what ppl refer to as-brain zaps/electric shocks? either way is it concerning or just discomforting? its manageablr, just freightens me (fret is not ideal now)

QUESTION 2: i searched for taper tracker app, couldnt find it. is it for tablet as well? im not able to track withdrawal symptoms as the symptoms dont allow it... A guided app would help, i do well with those...

Thanks in advance!!

[HardWork]

8 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

" I wanna take the quickest (of slowest) route.. and safety first of course"

 

If this is what you are looking for in a taper, then the standard Brassmonkey Slide will be the best. If you go with a lower percentage reduction you will add significant time to the process, as well as if you add longer holds. Now, each person needs to individually adjust their taper to fit how their body reacts. We have great success with the standard Brassmonkey Slide, but some people find it to be a bit harsh and need to go with a smaller percentage reduction.

 

Our starting recommended taper is a straight cut of 10% with a 4 week hold. This usually gives a very hard hit of symptoms in the first couple of days that then take at least four weeks to calm down before you do it again. It can be quite shocking to the body and many people have problems with it.  The idea behind the Brassmonkey Slide is to still reduce by 10% but spread it over several smaller reductions and then give it some time to settle out. This cuts the initial symptom hit substantially by spreading it out. Yes it takes a bit longer, but it is much more comfortable. There is also a reduced need for adding extended holds throughout the taper period. 

Thank you @brassmonkey! Brassmonkey slide method seems amazing! Is it your idea?-named in your honor? My one issue with it is that id need my dr to cooperate w weekly prescriptions (compounds) 😏😞 as calculating and weighing is my weakness esp during withdrawal!

May I give a suggestion? One of the mods here should become a psychiatrist (after non sense schooling) and then have the license to dispense proper dosages for the members (for $ of course 😉). I wish!

[brassmonkey]

I came up with the idea many years ago when I was preparing to do my taper. I was reading a lot of information about the 10% method, which at the time was just becoming popular, and was surprised by the amount of symptoms people were reporting right after the reduction. Through logic I decided that spreading the reduction out over several weeks should help but it still needed a hold period to let the symptoms stabilize and calm down. So I started with it from the very beginning. After talking about it on another forum, which is now closed, one of the other members gave it the name. I had great success with it and kept talking about it to others. Slowly, over time other members tried it and reported great success too. So it has just mushroomed and really caught on.

 

Getting a doctors help with a taper is tricky enough. Getting weekly prescriptions changes would be a real problem.  Making up the doses actually is quite simple after a bit of practice. All the moderators are versed in the calculations required and once you get the pattern established they are quite easy with a calculator. My doctor actually thinks I'm still taking 40mg pf paxil a day, all he did was supply the pills while I did all the rest.

 

We have a number of members who are in or heading toward med school with just that sort of thing in mind. More on the activist level than writing prescriptions, but still involved in trying to make changes.

[HardWork]

@brassmonkey. Thanks for your patient and clear reply... Brilliant! Especially under the affluence of drugs! Wowow!! Through logic that "professionals" doctors dont have. You shouldve patented it! 

 

Exactly about drs tricky enough.. Its not about calculating dosages, doing that w 10% as well.. The weighing/scales/drops part. Just thinking about it has my blood pressure go up... lol 40 paxil a day... you got me laughing, that i thought mybe there should be "joke of the day" daily on this site (maybe these kinds...)

My doctor is super dumb even in general life,  thats why i chose her. Because im able to be in control. like: "the pharmacy said you should send them 2 additional refills with each prescription". But staying on 40 mg entire time is smart.. love it👍

 

Congrats about members heading to school! You made my day!

 

Did you hear of rebellious/former psychiatrist Andrew Kaufman? I had one session w him. he told me w proper elimination through organic diet etc he can get me off lithium in a week. that hes done that a lot.. (until i ask these drs for reference they suddenly take the confidential highway...) what do u think of him or what he says?

[HardWork]

On 8/8/2021 at 2:13 PM, Altostrata said:

TaperTracker is a phone app. 

@Altostrata. thanks for your help and clear answers! do you mybe mean taper tracer? Couldnt find taper tracker