☼ KathyG: amitriptyline taper

[KathyG]

5 minutes ago, KathyG said:

 

Oh I feel better in the evening after eating and taking my dose so even such a small drop my body feels or could also be more a of a mind set.  Yes not a race with anyone but ourselves at times.  I know that full well.  Just want to do this last part slow and easy. thanks again for your response.  Tomorrow is my cut day

Okay here is the type of syringe as as I mentioned think its 0.01ml increments  

[manymoretodays]

Hi KathyG,

OOOH, great syringe image, and yes you have .01 increments marked.  Perfect.

  

21 hours ago, KathyG said:

As I mentioned I think I will start at 4.75mg dose and draw 0.95 which on my syringe is 5 lines.  I think that I will make 2 cuts as I have been doing every 7 days and then instead of the 7 days hold will see how I feel might add in another 7 days and continue from there.  So instead of cutting 1mg over 14 days it will now be 0.5mg.   So calc 5% on previous dose right?  So that is slowing things down right?  Will see how that goes. 

 

No, not really, I don't see the above as slowing things down.  Yes for the next several cuts, it slows things down, and it's good.  I'll explain further......of course. 🙃👩‍🌾  Once we get past a certain point, each taper will not be equivalent to 0.5 mL drops.  You'll see, bear with me.

 

If you do a 4.75 mg dose today, which yes is 0.95 mL in volume, that is a 5% taper from your present dose of 5 mg.

And this is good, for your taper from 5 mg.

And YES, yay, we are on the same page now as far as how you are measuring doses based on your Amitriptyline liquid being 5mg/ 1mL in concentration.

What's your native language KathyG?  I'm just wondering if it is French, if maybe you are in the French Canadian area.  No matter, just wonder.  I'm really basic slang American speaking, I think that can sometimes be hard to interpret.  I wonder if there is an international slang I could use.  Or maybe if I stick to proper English.  Anyway......I digress.

If you cut again, in 7 days , by another .5 mL(volume, millileter), you'll have effectively done a 10% taper from your previous 5 mg dose(5mgai) in 2 weeks time.  This part is fine.....you've done a bit of a slide into a 10% taper.  And we like 10% tapers a lot, or less.  Best though then, would be to hold for 2 weeks to a month even, after you've gotten down 10% from your previous dose of 5 mg.

You are at lower doses now, with the Amitriptyline, and sometimes it will help alot, to taper by a little less, not more, but less of a percentage from the previous dose.

 

 So you recalculate(or I can do that for you, and show you how to) from then the 4.5 mgai dose, and figure out how much it is to draw up into your syringe.

This instead of just tapering by 0.5 mL on your syringe every single time.

 

So after a suitable time period of holding at the 4.5 mgai dose.

What do you want to reduce by?  In percentage of that 4.5 mg dose?

 

If it is another 5%, it would look like this:

4.5 mgai X .95 = 4.27 mgai and then multiply that by 0.2 to find out what you measure out on your syringe for that dose(mgai).

4.27 mgai X 0.2 AIC= .854 mL and this is what you'd measure out. 

(and I would go with measuring out 0.85 mL on your syringe, I rounded down, and you do need to measure in .01 increments)

 

The 0.2 is the AIC or active ingredient concentration I just figured out.

And this will come in real handy, as you keep tapering.  This is how I did that, the calculation for your AIC.

So for every 1 mL we have 5mgai.

If we divide 1 mL by the 5 mgai-  we then come up with an AIC(active ingredient concentration) of  0.2 mL. 

Each 0.2 mL of volume in your syringe contains 1 mg of your active ingredient of Amitrip.

I've got to notify @brassmonkey again here, as I'm excited to use these kind of calculations here, and want them to check, of course.

 

*to figure out the dose mg, or mgai with a 5% taper you multiply the dose X .95    

That will give the next dose you want.

if you want to figure out a 2.5% taper you multiply the present dose  X .975   

Ditto, you will have the dose for a 2.5% taper   

 

So, back to your next taper, which won't be for I'm hoping at least another month, or at least 2 weeks after you get to your second taper.

I'm assuming you are at todays dose, and will still be there:

 

Dose- 4.75 mgai today    Measurement for that- 0.95 mL

Then in a week or 2(I like the idea of you waiting 2 weeks) you go to:

Dose- 4.5 mgai       Meaurement for that- 0. 9 mL

 

Then you hold.  And one option is another then another  5% taper from the 4.5 mgai dose.

Which would be:

Dose-4.27 mgai       Measurement- 0.85 mL on your syringe

 

Do your HOLD period, then,

 

The next 5% taper from 4.27 mgai looks like this:

Dose- 4.05 mg       Measurement for that-  0.81 mL on your syringe

HOLD, and then:

Another 5% taper from 4.05 mgai:

Dose- 3.84 mgai    Measurement- 0.76 mL

HOLD, and then:

5% from 3.84 mgai:

Dose- 3.64 mgai    Measurement- 0.72 mL

 

 

So yes, same page, pretty close to what you had already gotten.  I think as you continue along, follow along above, you will see the variance from what you had previously worked out.   Once getting to around 4 mgai in dose strength, it's beginning to show how it is indeed less than that 0.5 mL volume drop that you were going to do.

 

And I'm going to let you read and digest this.  Then I can calculate next tapers after these ones above. 

 

Okay, I hope. 

(I did have fun with my paper calculations and basic low tech calculator)

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by manymoretodays
clarity?

[manymoretodays]

Here is a link to the post on page one, with links to more topics, including Dr. Glenmullens WD symptom checklist:

Just click on the arrow, upper right and you'll wind up there, on that post, on page one, of your topic.

And a topic on: recording drug schedule and symptoms to track patterns and progress

What you are recording is good too, KathyG, getting all your ducks in a row, prior to making changes.....and then if brain fog is at play, you can relax a little bit too.  It does pass, and sometimes even the notes, journaling will show this, which is great in bolstering confidence as you go along.

I can remember trying to do calculations, and then doing them over and over again.......and getting reeaalllllly frustrated, with a headache to boot.  It got better.....and I gained confidence and continued on my merry way until off drugs completely.

So.....you are doing Great.

[KathyG]

3 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

No, not really, I don't see the above as slowing things down.  Yes for the next several cuts, it slows things down, and it's good.  I'll explain further......of course. 🙃👩‍🌾  Once we get past a certain point, each taper will not be equivalent to 0.5 mL drops.  You'll see, bear with me.

No I meant slowing things down as I continue.  Yes its lower than what I have been doing which is good and I know I need to do this. 

 

3 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

If you do a 4.75 mg dose today, which yes is 0.95 mL in volume, that is a 5% taper from your present dose of 5 mg.

And this is good, for your taper from 5 mg.

And YES, yay, we are on the same page now as far as how you are measuring doses based on your Amitriptyline liquid being 5mg/ 1mL in concentration.

What's your native language KathyG?  I'm just wondering if it is French, if maybe you are in the French Canadian area.  No matter, just wonder.  I'm really basic slang American speaking, I think that can sometimes be hard to interpret.  I wonder if there is an international slang I could use.  Or maybe if I stick to proper English.  Anyway......I digress.

Yes will be starting tomorrow Monday is when I usually make cuts or restart taper and cut to 0.95.  I am Polish by birth but am Canadian not French.  I am in the north part the province if Alberta, the prairies. 

 

3 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

If you cut again, in 7 days , by another .5 mL(volume, millileter), you'll have effectively done a 10% taper from your previous 5 mg dose(5mgai) in 2 weeks time.  This part is fine.....you've done a bit of a slide into a 10% taper.  And we like 10% tapers a lot, or less.  Best though then, would be to hold for 2 weeks to a month even, after you've gotten down 10% from your previous dose of 5 mg.

You are at lower doses now, with the Amitriptyline, and sometimes it will help alot, to taper by a little less, not more, but less of a percentage from the previous dose.

Yes that was my plan to do the 2 cuts and then hold at least 14 days and see how I am feeling and take it from there.

 

3 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

If you cut again, in 7 days , by another .5 mL(volume, millileter), you'll have effectively done a 10% taper from your previous 5 mg dose(5mgai) in 2 weeks time.  This part is fine.....you've done a bit of a slide into a 10% taper.  And we like 10% tapers a lot, or less.  Best though then, would be to hold for 2 weeks to a month even, after you've gotten down 10% from your previous dose of 5 mg.

You are at lower doses now, with the Amitriptyline, and sometimes it will help alot, to taper by a little less, not more, but less of a percentage from the previous dose.

 

 So you recalculate(or I can do that for you, and show you how to) from then the 4.5 mgai dose, and figure out how much it is to draw up into your syringe.

This instead of just tapering by 0.5 mL on your syringe every single time.

Yes this was my plan and then don't know whether to do 5% or 2.5% as I think you mention. 

 

3 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

So, back to your next taper, which won't be for I'm hoping at least another month, or at least 2 weeks after you get to your second taper.

I'm assuming you are at todays dose, and will still be there:

 

Dose- 4.75 mgai today    Measurement for that- 0.95 mL

Then in a week or 2(I like the idea of you waiting 2 weeks) you go to:

Dose- 4.5 mgai       Meaurement for that- 0. 9 mL

 

Then you hold.  And one option is another then another  5% taper from the 4.5 mgai dose.

Which would be:

Dose-4.27 mgai       Measurement- 0.85 mL on your syringe

 

Do your HOLD period, then,

 

The next 5% taper from 4.27 mgai looks like this:

Dose- 4.05 mg       Measurement for that-  0.81 mL on your syringe

HOLD, and then:

Another 5% taper from 4.05 mgai:

Dose- 3.84 mgai    Measurement- 0.76 mL

HOLD, and then:

5% from 3.84 mgai:

Dose- 3.64 mgai    Measurement- 0.72 mL

 

 

So yes, same page, pretty close to what you had already gotten.  I think as you continue along, follow along above, you will see the variance from what you had previously worked out.   Once getting to around 4 mgai in dose strength, it's beginning to show how it is indeed less than that 0.5 mL volume drop that you were going to do.

 

And I'm going to let you read and digest this.  Then I can calculate next tapers after these ones above

So this calc is going 5% every 14 days?  Looks good and then that would bring me to close to 3.5mg left.  Yes starting to be less in dose strength.  Do you think it is doable or is a to high using 5% vs 2.5%.  I guess if I feel intense sxs I could add in more hold days. Then maybe I should push to do the 5% to hit where you have calc to and then go from there.   I know we are all different in how we react but you have gone through tapering an AD after being on a long time.  I have tapered from other AD's but was not on a long time.  Longest one I think was 8 months.  Amitrip is  the longest.     

 

Thanks again for all your help and please continue with the calc.  Its great I got to send the syringe as then you can quote the draw amount nice    Been 2 week hold and super tired today but I have been adding in some Mag L-Threonate like not even a capsule.  I open and take some of the powder as well as Rhodiola again small amount of powder (this one I read attaching the link here for you to read as looks like it could help with the taper) plus some Flower Essences, Homeopathic Remedies and Cell Salts rotating on and off never really taking much just seems to be enough to keep sxs tolerable. 

 

Adjunctive Use

When combined with tricyclic antidepressants, rhodiola use has been associated with reduction of antidepressant side effects, particularly sedation fatigue and sexual dysfunction, as well as an improvement in depressive symptoms. Brown et al. state that they use rhodiola as an adjunctive treatment in depression because it "increases mental and physical energy" and "improves mood and stress tolerance.

https://www.mhanational.org/rhodiola-rosea?fbclid=IwAR07hXTumiuA1jfyMSIO-TpSYjeL50jyJcuCQ9Pulnl9coPEbvHrO_dcHvk

 

Maybe on the link we could start another thread to see if others have used and what their experiences have been.  I have not searched the site to see if there is anything posted.  Maybe you know and can direct me to them. 

KathyG

[KathyG]

Hey another question someone asked me that is tapering amitrip as well as I am in a group on Face Book for amitrip.

"If anybody of you knows how does receptor occupancy for Ami look like? I found study by Horowitz, made for SSRI and Benzos. No TCA´s. What dose of Ami starts the rapid decrease in occupancy of the receptors, please?"

Someone replied

"Definitely below 2mg...possibly even less.  50 percent occupancy at 1mg? It’s frightening how small a dose for full occupancy. I have a friend who has stopped reducing from 15mg after a decade and stopped at 3mg on the advice of her doctor. I’m pretty sure that this is to avoid discontinuation from the anticholinergic and antihistamine affects because they are so problematic after long term use"

For me I have never really investigated or thought much about this aspect as I feel as soon as we start tapering it starts releasing some of its hold on our receptors and CNS which is why we start to feel the w/d and once off then the really healing takes place.  So staying on a small amount for life does not make sense to me. 

What are your thoughts on this asepct??

 

KathyG

[brassmonkey]

@manymoretodays your numbers look fine. Nice to see you using the AIC, a very handy number to calculate.

 

Now that you are into the smaller doses it is very important not to rush things. The SERT occupancy charts are very similar for all of these and point out that very small changes in dose have a huge effect on the occupancy at the lower doses. Because of this it is very important to allow your body enough time to adjust to each reduction. Listening to your body and not paying attention to a preset schedule is key at the lower doses. Small and slow are the recommendations.

[KathyG]

1 hour ago, brassmonkey said:

@manymoretodays your numbers look fine. Nice to see you using the AIC, a very handy number to calculate.

 

Now that you are into the smaller doses it is very important not to rush things. The SERT occupancy charts are very similar for all of these and point out that very small changes in dose have a huge effect on the occupancy at the lower doses. Because of this it is very important to allow your body enough time to adjust to each reduction. Listening to your body and not paying attention to a preset schedule is key at the lower doses. Small and slow are the recommendations.

 

 

Ok great thanks so maybe more than a 2 week hold after I make the 2 cuts or maybe even start adding in a long hold after each cut?  Also do you think I am reaching a bit in the amount that I would like to cut. 

 

KathyG

[manymoretodays]

 

On 1/10/2022 at 1:44 PM, brassmonkey said:

our numbers look fine. Nice to see you using the AIC, a very handy number to calculate.

 

Thanks brassmonkey.  I was seriously and incredibly enthused to use the AIC in liquid calculations.  Very cool, my ah ha moment!

 

On 1/10/2022 at 3:32 PM, KathyG said:

Ok great thanks so maybe more than a 2 week hold after I make the 2 cuts or maybe even start adding in a long hold after each cut?  Also do you think I am reaching a bit in the amount that I would like to cut. 

 

Hi KathyG, And I think, doing the 5 % taper off the previous dose, then a HOLD of 2 weeks, and then if all is well doing the next 5% taper, and then HOLDING for a month, the first time.....might be good.

 

By all is well, I mean you haven't developed new WD symptoms that have not settled down yet, after 2 weeks.

 

So you went to 4.75 mg dose Monday, correct?  Or mgai, as you are learning the lingo.  AND you do want to note that in your signature, or edit it in, the dose in mg.  AccountSettings/signature. 

Here's the last lines in your signature now:

10mg Amitrip as of July 25, 2021 
Holding for at least 21 days maybe more as per reading Brass Monkey 

5mg Amitrip as of Dec 27, 2021

 

And then just add in tapered to 4.75 mg Amitriptyline January 10, 2021

You could just say using a modified brassmonkeyslide method too, if you want, instead of the Holding for 21 days.......

It's up to you, the wording, this is your Introduction and thread and signature.  The signature is meant to just be a brief summary while you are tapering of drugs, and dosages, that we all can refer to, to get a quick idea of where you are at with your taper.

 

Make sure and hit SAVE, at the bottom, after you edit something new in your signature.

 

Then you will go down again 5% from the 4.75 mg on the 24th of January.    To 4.5 mgai or 0.9 mL measurement in your syringe.

On 1/9/2022 at 4:20 PM, KathyG said:

So this calc is going 5% every 14 days?  Looks good and then that would bring me to close to 3.5mg left.  Yes starting to be less in dose strength.  Do you think it is doable or is a to high using 5% vs 2.5%.

 

KathyG,  I think this is fine above.  After the 2nd decrease each month, you might decide to wait 4 weeks before resuming tapers, depending on how you feel.

This is definitely along the lines of the brassmonkey slide.  The only difference is that instead of a 2.5 % taper every week, is that you are doing 5% every 2 weeks.

We can always help you adapt and change any schedule as you would like to.  Time will tell.

 

On 1/10/2022 at 1:44 PM, brassmonkey said:

The SERT occupancy charts are very similar for all of these and point out that very small changes in dose have a huge effect on the occupancy at the lower doses. Because of this it is very important to allow your body enough time to adjust to each reduction. Listening to your body and not paying attention to a preset schedule is key at the lower doses. Small and slow are the recommendations.

 

Great answer to your question.  Thanks brassmonkey.

 

Okie doke.  Best.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by manymoretodays
clarity, another line added

[manymoretodays]

On 1/10/2022 at 11:56 AM, KathyG said:

So staying on a small amount for life does not make sense to me. 

 

Nor me ^.  I think the main take home point for us, is to go slow enough, and at small enough increments with our tapers, to hopefully mitigate any WD symptoms, and give our systems a good chance to normalize back to baseline settings along the way.  I think further adaptations may even continue well after the drug or drugs are gone from our systems too.

 

On 1/9/2022 at 4:20 PM, KathyG said:

I open and take some of the powder as well as Rhodiola again small amount of powder (this one I read attaching the link here for you to read as looks like it could help with the taper) plus some Flower Essences, Homeopathic Remedies and Cell Salts rotating on and off never really taking much just seems to be enough to keep sxs tolerable. 

 

Adjunctive Use

When combined with tricyclic antidepressants, rhodiola use has been associated with reduction of antidepressant side effects, particularly sedation fatigue and sexual dysfunction, as well as an improvement in depressive symptoms. Brown et al. state that they use rhodiola as an adjunctive treatment in depression because it "increases mental and physical energy" and "improves mood and stress tolerance.

https://www.mhanational.org/rhodiola-rosea?fbclid=IwAR07hXTumiuA1jfyMSIO-TpSYjeL50jyJcuCQ9Pulnl9coPEbvHrO_dcHvk

 

Maybe on the link we could start another thread to see if others have used and what their experiences have been.  I have not searched the site to see if there is anything posted.  Maybe you know and can direct me to them. 

 

I found a topic in symptoms and self care:  Rhodiola rosea

I did my usual kind of search using my browser off site and plugged in: survivingantidepressants.org rhodiola and it came right up.

I will take a look/see myself.

 

Just a reminder though too, that the only supplements we really endorse here are these:

BASIC SUPPLEMENT TOOLKIT

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

  

On 6/16/2011 at 6:20 PM, Altostrata said:

Many herbs also have unusual side effects in people with withdrawal syndrome.

Whatever you try, understand you may be hypersensitive to that particular substance or treatment. If you are trying an herb or supplement, take a tiny fraction of a normal dose and see how you react. Don't think you're going to smack a symptom down with a big dose of anything. More is not better when your system is sensitized by withdrawal.

 

From topic: Important topics about tests, supplements, treatments, and diet

 

And also never make more than one change at a time too.  For example, if you are changing a dose-tapering, or adding in something new to your daily regimen, or even trying a new form of a drug(like going from solid to liquid).........don't change or add anything else at the same time.

And then even with supplements, or adding them in, start low, go slow, and keep notes or make observations.  That way you/we get a better feel for what is doing what, or a clearer picture.

 

The rule of 3 KI's, simple, slow, stable

^ explains the whys even better than I ever could 

 

👩‍🌾

( I don't know why I am feeling poetic today or something and so will add......let us all be students, just walking each other home)

[KathyG]

2 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Then you will go down again 5% from the 4.75 mg on the 24th of January.    To 4.5 mgai or 0.9 mL measurement in your syringe.

On 1/9/2022 at 4:20 PM, KathyG said:

So this calc is going 5% every 14 days?  Looks good and then that would bring me to close to 3.5mg left.  Yes starting to be less in dose strength.  Do you think it is doable or is a to high using 5% vs 2.5%.

 

KathyG,  I think this is fine above.  After the 2nd decrease each month, you might decide to wait 4 weeks before resuming tapers, depending on how you feel.

This is definitely along the lines of the brassmonkey slide.  The only difference is that instead of a 2.5 % taper every week, is that you are doing 5% every 2 weeks.

We can always help you adapt and change any schedule as you would like to.  Time will tell.

 

 

I changed the signature.

On your question if I developed any other new sxs on my 14 day hold no still the same ones.

Yes I am at 4.75mg as of Jan 10, Monday and will hold the following week and resume Jan 24 Monday at 4.5mgai  - 0.9ml on syringe and will do the next week hold and see how I am feeling and if off will add in another etc. 

Okay so are you going to do the going forward calc and post so I have the numbers?  As you say we can always change as I go along if need be but at least I would have them.

 

Thanks guys so much for the help great appreciated.

 

KathyG

[manymoretodays]

On 1/12/2022 at 6:29 PM, KathyG said:

Okay so are you going to do the going forward calc and post so I have the numbers?  As you say we can always change as I go along if need be but at least I would have them.

 

Hi Kathy,

Yes, I can make you another chart showing tapers of 5%, and what that will be in dose, and then in mL too.

Looks like I've got until the 24th, or even after that, but I'll get to it ASAP......sooner I hope.

I think I kept going down a few more times, in my previous post, but I'll copy that over, and keep going with it.

 

Thank you on the signature.  You may have to line up some of your tapers, date, drug name, and dose, on the same line at some point, so that you don't exceed the 12 line maximum.  You've got some time before you get to that anyway.  Thanks again.  I 💜 signature up daters.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi KathyG,

Okay here is a chart for 5% reductions based on each previous dose.

And then I'll put how much that will be in mgai, the dose AND in mL(millileter), or the volume of measurement.

 

I need to quote my previous work, and then below that I'll just note the doses in mg, and measurements in volume, or mL, for each successive 5 % taper.  That way you are not locked into any time frame for exactly when you do each taper drop.  And again, if 5% seems like too much to taper each time, then you or we can recalculate for 2.5% tapers.

 

  

On 1/9/2022 at 12:05 PM, manymoretodays said:

The 0.2 is the AIC or active ingredient concentration I just figured out.

And this will come in real handy, as you keep tapering.  This is how I did that, the calculation for your AIC.

So for every 1 mL we have 5mgai.

If we divide 1 mL by the 5 mgai-  we then come up with an AIC(active ingredient concentration) of  0.2 mL. 

Each 0.2 mL of volume in your syringe contains 1 mg of your active ingredient of Amitrip.

I've got to notify @brassmonkey again here, as I'm excited to use these kind of calculations here, and want them to check, of course.

 

*to figure out the dose mg, or mgai with a 5% taper you multiply the dose X .95    

That will give the next dose you want.

if you want to figure out a 2.5% taper you multiply the present dose  X .975   

Ditto, you will have the dose for a 2.5% taper   

 

So, back to your next taper, which won't be for I'm hoping at least another month, or at least 2 weeks after you get to your second taper.

I'm assuming you are at todays dose, and will still be there:

 

Dose- 4.75 mgai today    Measurement for that- 0.95 mL

Then in a week or 2(I like the idea of you waiting 2 weeks) you go to:

Dose- 4.5 mgai       Meaurement for that- 0. 9 mL

 

Then you hold.  And one option is another then another  5% taper from the 4.5 mgai dose.

Which would be:

Dose-4.27 mgai       Measurement- 0.85 mL on your syringe

 

Do your HOLD period, then,

 

The next 5% taper from 4.27 mgai looks like this:

Dose- 4.05 mg       Measurement for that-  0.81 mL on your syringe

HOLD, and then:

Another 5% taper from 4.05 mgai:

Dose- 3.84 mgai    Measurement- 0.76 mL

HOLD, and then:

5% from 3.84 mgai:

Dose- 3.64 mgai    Measurement- 0.72 mL

 

I'll go with dose first in mg and then with the measurement for that too, in each line again.

Based on a 5 mg per each 1 mL (concentration) in your liquid.

Dose:  4.75 mg   Volume:  .95 mL

Dose:  4.5 mg     Volume:  .90 mL

Dose:  4.27 mg   Volume:  .85 mL

Dose:  4.05 mg   Volume:  .81 mL

Dose:  3.84 mg   Volume   .76 mL

Dose:   3.64 mg   Volume  .72 mL

Dose:   3.46 mg   Volume  .69 mL

Dose:  3.29 mg    Volume:  .66 mL

Dose:   3.12 mg    Volume:  .63 mL

Dose:   2.96 mg   Volume:   .59 mL

 

Which brings us just below a 3 mg dose.

And here is a recap of how I calculated this out.

dose in mg X .95 = dose in mg for a 5% taper

dose in mg X 0.2 =  the volume in mL for the dose

(0.2 is the AIC for your liquid concentrated as 5 mg/1 mL)

I also when I did the calculations calculated using my calculator that reads out 4 digits after the decimal point.

I did any rounding up or down after that.    

 

Okay, and happy healthy tapering,

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt 

Edited January 21, 2022 by manymoretodays

[KathyG]

On 1/20/2022 at 8:54 PM, manymoretodays said:

I'll go with dose first in mg and then with the measurement for that too, in each line again.

Based on a 5 mg per each 1 mL (concentration) in your liquid.

Dose:  4.75 mg   Volume:  .95 mL

Dose:  4.5 mg     Volume:  .90 mL

Dose:  4.27 mg   Volume:  .85 mL

Dose:  4.05 mg   Volume:  .81 mL

Dose:  3.84 mg   Volume   .76 mL

Dose:   3.64 mg   Volume  .72 mL

Dose:   3.46 mg   Volume  .69 mL

Dose:  3.29 mg    Volume:  .66 mL

Dose:   3.12 mg    Volume:  .63 mL

Dose:   2.96 mg   Volume:   .59 mL

Hi Many - just wanted to give an update on my progress I have been feeling no to bad so pushing last hold ended Jan 23 and trying to follow your calcs and pretty close to doing that give or take the rounding so sitting at roughly 3.5mg (3.64mg on your schedule).  Hope to push the next 14 days and get to 3.0mg left on March 13.  Will see how I feel and whether I need a hold.  Can you send the next schedule and probably last schedule.  It is great to be able to see the volume I need to draw and I round it up or down. 

 I am so close now and need to stay focused and not push to hard.  Any thoughts?  

I have been using 12 Cell Salts they are homeopathic  as well as Dr. Bach Flower Essences Rescue Remedy and really seem to be helping.

KathyG

[KathyG]

Just an update I have been using 12 Cell Salts they are homeopathic  as well as Dr. Bach Flower Essences Rescue Remedy and really seem to be helping with the tapering as I am getting lower.

[manymoretodays]

On 2/26/2022 at 5:02 PM, KathyG said:

Hi Many - just wanted to give an update on my progress I have been feeling no to bad so pushing last hold ended Jan 23 and trying to follow your calcs and pretty close to doing that give or take the rounding so sitting at roughly 3.5mg (3.64mg on your schedule).  Hope to push the next 14 days and get to 3.0mg left on March 13.  Will see how I feel and whether I need a hold.  Can you send the next schedule and probably last schedule.  It is great to be able to see the volume I need to draw and I round it up or down. 

 I am so close now and need to stay focused and not push to hard.  Any thoughts?  

 

Hi KathyG,

Where are you at now, with your dosage?

Yes, you are closer.......and sometimes the last leg of the journey can be slower, much slower........as the increments in dosage drops become smaller and smaller.

It looked a little faster up until you last posted, than what I gave you.  Do you have trouble measuring the volumes in mL's?  And then, at this point it might be better to round up.  It can seem to go slower.......with the lower doses.  Well worth the time though.

 

Give us an update.  I'm wondering if you went for a longer hold.  And that is always a good thing.   And yes, sure I can try to work out another round for you to go.  Let me know where you are at now.  I am checking in a little more regularly again and Wow.....it has been awhile, so sorry.

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[KathyG]

14 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

Hi KathyG,

Where are you at now, with your dosage?

Yes, you are closer.......and sometimes the last leg of the journey can be slower, much slower........as the increments in dosage drops become smaller and smaller.

It looked a little faster up until you last posted, than what I gave you.  Do you have trouble measuring the volumes in mL's?  And then, at this point it might be better to round up.  It can seem to go slower.......with the lower doses.  Well worth the time though.

 

Give us an update.  I'm wondering if you went for a longer hold.  And that is always a good thing.   And yes, sure I can try to work out another round for you to go.  Let me know where you are at now.  I am checking in a little more regularly again and Wow.....it has been awhile, so sorry.

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Never heard from you so went at my own pace and now I am 55 days finished the taper.  Still feel off and have a weird internal unease and sleep a little rough.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by manymoretodays
removed blank quote

[manymoretodays]

  

On 1/5/2022 at 5:40 PM, KathyG said:

My biggest sxs right now is the scared unease internal feeling that sits with me most days.  Sleep is not bad but wake early morning with that same feeling.  

 

So same symptoms now, as you were having back in January?

 

Windows?  Times when you are not feeling this?  Definitely pay attention to when you are not having symptoms.

 

Counting weeks, and then going with 3.5 mg February 27th, and then 4 week intervals of 10% drops.......I come up with a 2 mg dose on July 4th.

You do seem to be doing okay right now and so......what is done is done.  I'm not feeling like pushing you to do a mini-reinstatement either.  At best those can sometimes mitigate symptoms a bit, but often don't totally remove them.  You don't say much, and I'm reading that you feel okay at this point.  Not perfect but okay.

Any idea on what your final dose in mg was?

 

Is it a morning dread feeling when you come out of sleep?  I know I've struggled with that for years and often will just try to distract.......one foot down on the floor and a "thank you".......the other foot down followed by a "for today" and then just some mindfulness/in the moment, stretching- yoga or walk, some music sometimes, or gratitude lists on paper and journaling.......hopes for the day.  Distractions too.

 

It might be due to some of the morning cortisol, and/or something that just is.  And will be for awhile.

 

If the unease is with you most days.......try some new practices, be oh so good to your self, or even consult with someone who might be able to help you learn new skills.  It is not a shame that we, most of us, have to work at feeling more at ease and peace.......not anything to be ashamed of.  Keep an open, curious mind and do your best KathyG.

 

I am thankful that it doesn't sound like you had a big crash into new WD symptoms.  Correct me if I am wrong there.

And I think it is okay too, to be excited by your accomplishment.  What's done is done. 

 

Anyway.  Let's celebrate a bit.  55 days off!!!  Woohoo.   Enjoy your Sunday.

Non-drug techniques to cope

and work your way down the indexed list in the first post, likely you'll find something that appeals

You are more than welcome to pop around and encourage and support others here, or elsewhere too.  That really can be magic.

Don't be shy. 

 

Go easy and slow and low with anything you might venture to try in the way of supplements.  Don't drink or use drugs.  Not in these early days.

 

Please update again too.  You matter.  Very much so.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

[KathyG]

On 8/28/2022 at 11:39 AM, manymoretodays said:

  

 

So same symptoms now, as you were having back in January?

 

Windows?  Times when you are not feeling this?  Definitely pay attention to when you are not having symptoms.

 

Counting weeks, and then going with 3.5 mg February 27th, and then 4 week intervals of 10% drops.......I come up with a 2 mg dose on July 4th.

You do seem to be doing okay right now and so......what is done is done.  I'm not feeling like pushing you to do a mini-reinstatement either.  At best those can sometimes mitigate symptoms a bit, but often don't totally remove them.  You don't say much, and I'm reading that you feel okay at this point.  Not perfect but okay.

Any idea on what your final dose in mg was?

 

Is it a morning dread feeling when you come out of sleep?  I know I've struggled with that for years and often will just try to distract.......one foot down on the floor and a "thank you".......the other foot down followed by a "for today" and then just some mindfulness/in the moment, stretching- yoga or walk, some music sometimes, or gratitude lists on paper and journaling.......hopes for the day.  Distractions too.

 

It might be due to some of the morning cortisol, and/or something that just is.  And will be for awhile.

 

If the unease is with you most days.......try some new practices, be oh so good to your self, or even consult with someone who might be able to help you learn new skills.  It is not a shame that we, most of us, have to work at feeling more at ease and peace.......not anything to be ashamed of.  Keep an open, curious mind and do your best KathyG.

 

I am thankful that it doesn't sound like you had a big crash into new WD symptoms.  Correct me if I am wrong there.

And I think it is okay too, to be excited by your accomplishment.  What's done is done. 

 

Anyway.  Let's celebrate a bit.  55 days off!!!  Woohoo.   Enjoy your Sunday.

Non-drug techniques to cope

and work your way down the indexed list in the first post, likely you'll find something that appeals

You are more than welcome to pop around and encourage and support others here, or elsewhere too.  That really can be magic.

Don't be shy. 

 

Go easy and slow and low with anything you might venture to try in the way of supplements.  Don't drink or use drugs.  Not in these early days.

 

Please update again too.  You matter.  Very much so.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Yes same sxs not as bad just like I said that strange weird internal unease that just sits on the edge.  Was a little more intense when I first walked off but easing as time goes on.  My final walk off dose was 0.50mg.  I would never reinstate once I am off.  Yes its the cortisol around 6am.  I do volunteer and walk in nature with my dog so have always used distractions to help.  I think its still early and my CNS has been through hell for the past 4 years with as can't remember if mentioned during that time they tried like about 10 different AD's and benzo's on me to see if they would help with the anxiety and I reacted to all and had to taper them.  Klon was last benzo and then the amitrip so think I need more time for the healing.  

Yes I have always when trying anything such as supplements have gone slow and low.  Even opened capsules ans sprinkled on food for over a few days or weeks to see if okay or react.  Some things helped such as homeopathy and flower essences while I was still on the meds but not so much now. 

We are all unique and it will take a while for the body and brain to adjust. They are working hard to recover from iatrogenic harm and find your natural balance again, homeostasis. So eat healthy, getting lots of fresh air and sleep and distraction helps.

yes will try and venture back and see if I can help others. I am in a a few Face Book groups one for amitrip and a few others for benzo's.  The amitrip group they say I have helped in many ways which makes me feel good to give back.

KathyG

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by manymoretodays
none, just copying out KG's response from quote

[manymoretodays]

Okay, and thank you KathyG.

I'm just going to copy here your response, it's folded up in your quote of my post above.

Yes same sxs not as bad just like I said that strange weird internal unease that just sits on the edge.  Was a little more intense when I first walked off but easing as time goes on.  My final walk off dose was 0.50mg.  I would never reinstate once I am off.  Yes its the cortisol around 6am.  I do volunteer and walk in nature with my dog so have always used distractions to help.  I think its still early and my CNS has been through hell for the past 4 years with as can't remember if mentioned during that time they tried like about 10 different AD's and benzo's on me to see if they would help with the anxiety and I reacted to all and had to taper them.  Klon was last benzo and then the amitrip so think I need more time for the healing.  

Yes I have always when trying anything such as supplements have gone slow and low.  Even opened capsules ans sprinkled on food for over a few days or weeks to see if okay or react.  Some things helped such as homeopathy and flower essences while I was still on the meds but not so much now. 

We are all unique and it will take a while for the body and brain to adjust. They are working hard to recover from iatrogenic harm and find your natural balance again, homeostasis. So eat healthy, getting lots of fresh air and sleep and distraction helps.

yes will try and venture back and see if I can help others. I am in a a few Face Book groups one for amitrip and a few others for benzo's.  The amitrip group they say I have helped in many ways which makes me feel good to give back.

KathyG

 

This all sounds good.  And good good on your already helping and giving back.

Don't be a stranger.  Please alert us to when you want your little sunshine symbol too.  It's a little sun that goes by your name, as a sign of recovery and doing well.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[KathyG]

20 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Okay, and thank you KathyG.

I'm just going to copy here your response, it's folded up in your quote of my post above.

Yes same sxs not as bad just like I said that strange weird internal unease that just sits on the edge.  Was a little more intense when I first walked off but easing as time goes on.  My final walk off dose was 0.50mg.  I would never reinstate once I am off.  Yes its the cortisol around 6am.  I do volunteer and walk in nature with my dog so have always used distractions to help.  I think its still early and my CNS has been through hell for the past 4 years with as can't remember if mentioned during that time they tried like about 10 different AD's and benzo's on me to see if they would help with the anxiety and I reacted to all and had to taper them.  Klon was last benzo and then the amitrip so think I need more time for the healing.  

Yes I have always when trying anything such as supplements have gone slow and low.  Even opened capsules ans sprinkled on food for over a few days or weeks to see if okay or react.  Some things helped such as homeopathy and flower essences while I was still on the meds but not so much now. 

We are all unique and it will take a while for the body and brain to adjust. They are working hard to recover from iatrogenic harm and find your natural balance again, homeostasis. So eat healthy, getting lots of fresh air and sleep and distraction helps.

yes will try and venture back and see if I can help others. I am in a a few Face Book groups one for amitrip and a few others for benzo's.  The amitrip group they say I have helped in many ways which makes me feel good to give back.

KathyG

 

This all sounds good.  And good good on your already helping and giving back.

Don't be a stranger.  Please alert us to when you want your little sunshine symbol too.  It's a little sun that goes by your name, as a sign of recovery and doing well.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Yes please on the sunshine.  Gotta get used to the site once again been awhile

 

[manymoretodays]

Because you're feeling better, I added our cheerful "here comes the sun" symbol ☼ to the title of your Intro topic, to show you're recovering.

 

Please continue to let us know how you're doing. I hope you will add your story to our Recovery Success Stories eventually!

 

Please see this topic:  How to write your success story

 

My pleasure KathyG.  ...........because we need a little sunshine.......right this very minute.........(a tune popped into my head, solly).  You sound good. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by manymoretodays