MaryMoo429: Introduction

[MaryMoo429]

@ChessieCat No I don’t take a calcium supplement. 
 

How should I take the magnesium?

 

I feel like I’m going to die right now, my anxiety is SOOO bad! 

[ChessieCat]

I included the link to the magnesium topic in my last post.  Post #1 has a lot of information.

[MaryMoo429]

@ChessieCat Ok, I see. I will try splitting what I’m taking now into half-teaspoons and dosing 4 times (spread out evenly) throughout the day. I didn’t realize it would be absorbed poorly if taken all at once. Is it ok to just switch right to that schedule this morning? 

[ChessieCat]

Please do not use tagging of staff for general questions.  SA is staffed by a small number of unrostered, unpaid peers who assist members as they can.  Staff regularly check the new posts made by members in the Introduction forum.  Please do not tag me in future for any reason.  Thank you.

 

10 minutes ago, MaryMoo429 said:

Is it ok to just switch right to that schedule this morning? 

 

Yes, that is okay.  It is not like a psychiatric drug.

[Mia1]

I’m sorry you’re having such a difficult time right now, I can relate. The reason I went on medication in the first place was because of anxiety and panic and OCD which really disrupted my sleep. It was scary and confusing and I was desperate to have it stop. 

 

As I started to come off the medication all of these symptoms came back and I knew if I were to med free I needed to find a way to heal it naturally. It was only when I started meditating every day did I start to understand anxiety/panic/OCD and as a result was able to change my relationship with it. 
 

I know I have mentioned meditation to you before and you said it’s not really your thing but I thought I would try one more time as you seem to be struggling. It has a lot of scientifically proven benefits on mental health including reducing cortisol, lowering the fight/flight response and promoting a good night sleep. It’s quite literally like taking an antidepressant. I’ll link an article here that details more.

 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/12-benefits-of-meditation

 

What I found is it’s the daily practice that is key to feeling the full benefits. Whatever your experience with this in the past maybe you can put that aside and commit to a full month of this and then see the positive benefits for yourself. If nothing else it’s really relaxing.

 

 I’m now tapering my last medication, Klonopin, which I have been on for 22 years. Although it can feel really intense at times I haven’t experienced any high anxiety or panic and I sleep every night. It’s remarkable and it’s a direct result of my daily meditation practice, which I have been doing for a year now. 
 

Whatever you decide to do I hope you feel better soon, sending you lots of healing energy and love 💖

[MaryMoo429]

@Mia1 I used the one you sent me on living with chronic pain as well as the one for psychiatric drug withdrawal and really liked both of them. The meditations would work once in a while but not always. It’s like my body just gets this gross physical feeling some nights and I know it’ll be a night where I can’t sleep. When I have that feeling the mediations don’t touch it and can sometimes make it worse and make me more anxious. I will definitely try it again though as I’m absolutely desperate. It really sucks because I feel like the only thing that would help me right now is a benzo and I know I can’t take one. I just want to sleep and I think I’d feel like 40% better. 
 

Thanks for your recommendations and checking in. I’m happy to hear your taper is going well! I rely on stories and advice from people like you to help me keep going on the days I feel like I’m drowning. 

[Mia1]

4 minutes ago, MaryMoo429 said:

The meditations would work once in a while but not always. It’s like my body just gets this gross physical feeling some nights and I know it’ll be a night where I can’t sleep. When I have that feeling the mediations don’t touch it and can sometimes make it worse and make me more anxious.

Remember, it’s the cumulative action of meditating every day for a period of time that will have the effect on you. It must be done every day no matter what your mind is telling you.
 

When you can change your relationship to these symptoms and start to view them objectively they will lose power over you. Meditation helps create the space to see that thoughts are just thoughts and uncomfortable physical sensations don’t actually have to ruin your day/night. We’re not changing what’s happening but rather our perception of what’s happening. 
 

It’s definitely a practice though so am happy to hear you’re going to give it a try!!

 

 

 

 

[MaryMoo429]

Ya I have a horrible relationship with my thoughts and physical feelings for sure. It’s that whole radical acceptance thing that I constantly am at war with. The thoughts/feelings are just so loud and dominating and I’m still not strong enough to surmount them. Feeling really physically ill as I do right now after not sleeping for two days (and therefore not able to exercise) makes it really hard to not see them as a horrible obstacle trying to stop me from succeeding and healing. In essence, my mind says they have ruined my day because I was unable to go to work and function to the degree and at the capacity to which I would like. I see having to take two days off from work as a failure and one that I cannot afford. I will be able to manage today though since I took the day off and re-scheduled my car appointment. If only I didn’t have to work until I got through this. Hopefully I can get some sleep soon. Thank you @Mia1❤️🙏

[almuPA]

Dear @MaryMoo429,

 

I am so sorry to read that you are having a tough time. 

 

I know It is hard, but try to see It as something that will pass. Remember all those times where you thought you couldnt make It and you did. Remember that more people had gone through the same and have survived. Remember that the next window may be closer than you think. 

 

I know what you are going thru and I am sorry I cant give you a magic solution. 

 

I understand you about meditating. To me, is like opening the door to all the irrational and scary thoughts I have in my mind. However, I think I am going to try to do It 5 minutes a day. 

 

I also understand you a lot with the food (I am refering to older posts, where you commented about not being able to go to yoga). Right now, all of our strength needs to be focused on getting better from this WD. We will have time latter to worry about this kind of things(or not, in your pictures you look so beautiful). With this I don't mean that you cant excercise. Do It if It makes you feel better, but don't stress if you cant. 

 

I really Hope that you can have some good sleep soon.

 

I send you a hug.

 

[MaryMoo429]

Thanks for checking in @almuPA. My brother ended up coming to visit me today and my mom is going to stay tonight in our spare room. Having family come to visit can be really beneficial to me when I am feeling so awful, alone and symptomatic. I’m trying to just lay low and not beat myself up for having to call out of work two days in a row and not being able to exercise. Hopefully tonight will be better and I will get some rest and can move past this. I did get in touch with my doctor and am going to be tested for Lyme next week as this is something that has been a growing concern of mine recently. I just feel so incredibly unwell. Thank you for reminding me to see this as something that will pass. When the symptoms are so severe it can be hard to believe that things will ever get better. I hope you are doing well and continuing to heal❤️❤️❤️

[Timberline]

Hi @MaryMoo429  I hope you’re feeling better. I know the awful feeling of no sleep. It’s literally the worst ever. Nothing seems manageable when you’re utterly exhausted! Try to have some grace with yourself. Slow down. Take a breath. Stay in the moment. Remind yourself that this is temporary and that everything feels heightened right now because of the lack of sleep. I used to drive myself crazy thinking about what work will think if I call out again or what my family will think knowing I’m suffering. I spent way too much mental energy on thinking about others when I was the one hurting and needing to give myself that attention. Now I say to myself, “What about me? What do I need right now and can I give myself this time to take care of me?” Of course no one wants to get fired or lose their job and the idea that this is something we have to worry about while we’re healing is inhumane. You’re not being irresponsible, you’re not a bad employee. You’re hurting. And everyone on this planet deserves to be held and cared for when they’re hurting. Not reprimanded and judged.

 

A quick question about your supplements:

Magnesium: I take about 1000mg a day. 300 in the am, 300 midday and 400 at night. This is certainly something you need to experiment with but high doses work really well for me.

L-Theanine: is this working for you? I’ve had to stay away from amino acids personally but wondering how you find it to be for you?

Valerian: I’m an herbalist and im

not giving medical advice but valerian is strong. Almost like an herbal benzo. It’s also a warming herb. There’s herbs that are warming and herbs that are cooling. For me personally, I need to stick with cooling herbs. Think about it this way, warming = energy, stimulation, movement, etc. When I’m using an herb for my nervous system, this is not the action I want. I want cooling, relaxing, calming, restoring. My favorites are lemon balm, motherwort and hawthorn.

Melatonin: Never took this but have heard mixed reviews! If it works for you great but I’m curious how it’s helped you!

 

I really like to take a look at every supplement I’m taking every so often and ask myself, how is this helping me. And maybe switch things up when I run into a rough patch. 
 

You’re not alone in this. Give yourself a tight hug and tell the part of you that’s in pain right now that it’s going to get better. Here’s what I say to myself when it seems unbearable:

”Im right here sweetie. I got you. Nothing bad is going to happen. You‘ve felt this way before and you know this will pass. No matter how long this takes, I’ll never leave your side. I love you and I’m so proud of you. I can’t wait to see the life we will create together when we’ve come out the other end of this. It’s going to be so damn beautiful!”

 

There is a part of you that is hurting/feeling all this pain and there is another part of you that is whole and completely alive! Let them speak to each other. They each have a lot to offer. (I hope this makes sense and doesn’t sound too crazy!!)

 

Sending lots of love and deep deep rest! Xoxo

[MaryMoo429]

@Timberline Thank you so much for your post I really enjoyed reading it and found it so supportive. Very helpful to hear. thank you for reminding me to take cafe of myself first. My boss actually called me an hour ago to check in and see if she could do anything to help. When she hung up she even said that she would love to see my face tomorrow but to take all the time that I need and not to worry. It was really nice to hear and relieved a lot of anxiety. 

As far as the supplements go, the reason I’m still taking any of these (aside from the magnesium - I will take this forever) is because I was taking them before I went into withdrawal and have been nervous to just stop. I really want to stop all of them, however. I’m currently tapering the valerian slowly. I’m decreasing by one drop (33.3mg) every month or two months. I was taking Like 2,400mg at one point until I found this website and learned that this could affect my withdrawal. I’ve been tapering this for almost a year and was doing it quickly at first but recently have have slowed it way down. That’s interesting about it being a warming herb. Would you think it better to take in the morning? I don’t want to make a change that is going to further upset my nervous system as it clearly is so very unstable at this time.
 

Is it ok to take that high a dose of magnesium? I really like the magnesium but thought it wasn’t supposed to be taken at doses higher than what I am doing. 
 

L Theanine: I am not sure what this does as I’ve been taking it at this dose and time of day since before going into withdrawal. What do amino acids do to you to make you unable to take them? 

Melatonin: Same thing as above. I started taking this when I jumped off of Remeron back in the spring of 2020 because I was worried about not being able to sleep. I am

not sure if this helps or not because I haven’t not taken it since I've been in withdrawal. I have come down from 3mg to 2mg in that span of time though as I’d like to get off of it entirely eventually. 
 

I also was on Kava when withdrawal started and weened myself off over the course of a few months this last winter. 
 

Thankss again for the uplifting pep talk and I will make sure to hug and call myself sweetie several times tonight 😁🙌
 

 

[Timberline]

@MaryMoo429thats great that your boss is so understanding!! happy to hear that!

 

totally understand feeling nervous to stop the supplements. makes sense and i wouldn't change anything unless you were certain it was adding to your discomfort!

 

i've taken 1000mg of magnesium for years now. it works great for me and is so helpful with heart related symptoms. i used to work for a chiropractor and he explained to me that the body, especially under stress, burns through magnesium quickly. so its good to replenish throughout the day and my stressed out body loves this dosage!

 

and as far as amino acids go, i've just always noticed an increase in anxiety whenever i tried experimenting. possibly because im still on an ssri. may have different effects once i'm fully off!

 

i hope you got some rest last night and are feeling some relief? thinking of you! xoxo

[MaryMoo429]

@Timberline interesting about the magnesium dosage, I didn’t know it was safe to take more than like 400mg a day. Maybe I will think about upping my dose a little bit. I know that most people are unable to get enough from diet alone. I also was told that magnesium is one of the first things our bodies burn through when under stress and mine is operating from the stress response just about all day long, so this shouldn’t hurt! 

I did end up getting sleep Wednesday and Thursday night. I put my phone away at 7:00 and got ready for bed at 7:30. Once in bed I did two different meditations - one for  chronic pain and one for sleep. After, I took my supplements, put my fan on and got into bed. I still had that tired but wired, “I’m not gonna sleep” feeling so put on a video of thunderstorm sounds and out my eye mask on to block out the light. This ended up working both nights.
 

Last night, however, I was unable to get to sleep until 1:30am, despite being in bed at 8 and following the same routine as the nights prior. As frustrated as I was I just put on meditation after mediation and tried to accept the anxious feelings as they kept flooding over me, trying to react to them as little as possible. it truly sucked and it took so much effort to not to stand up, scream and tear my hair out. Patience and acceptance. Jeeeze.

 

I woke up at 5, 20 minutes before my alarm clock went off and decided 3.5 hours of sleep was better than nothing so I got up and drove to 6am power yoga class. I’m glad I went, as it actually made me have a better day today at work, despite being symptomatic (with the same old things I’ve been dealing with since going into withdrawal). My mood was better so I feel like I was better equipped to deal with the unwanted feelings. 
 

I’m happy it’s Friday and that I am able to say I made it another week. I Hope you’re doing well and that you have a wonderful, Halloween weekend❤️🎃

 

[ChessieCat]

23 minutes ago, MaryMoo429 said:

I didn’t know it was safe to take more than like 400mg a day.

 

From Post #1 of the magnesium topic:

  

On 10/8/2011 at 6:22 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Don't overdo taking magnesium -- too much will give you diarrhea. Start with 25mg. (I was never able to take more than 50mg-75mg at a time, but others can take much more.) To start, you will want to get 100mg tablets you can cut up or 100mg capsules you can open, so you can try a lower dose and gradually increase if you wish.

 

 

[deg1979]

I, too, slept 3.5 hours last night. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one. I know the exact, buzzy "I'm not gonna sleep" feeling. Sometimes it takes so much just to hold still and not bolt from the bed! I usually do give up around 4 or 5 am. In my case, I slept from 9 pm -12:30 am, then did not sleep after that. 

 

I am learning that we can set things up just right, but we shouldn't put too much stock in what works and what doesn't work (as long as we're maintaining good sleep hygiene). I'm trying to "let go" and just let the insomnia exist. I was developing so much anxiety about sleeping that it was seriously compounding the problem (I had some serious insomnia as a kid, so it just brings it all back). 

 

Good job getting through the day! I'm almost done. Just a few hours to go. 

[MaryMoo429]

@deg1979 I’m sorry to hear that you struggle with this symptom too, it’s really an awful one. It definitely does take a lot of effort to not get up and bolt from the bed. When the anxiety rises, the patience wears thin and the clock keeps ticking forward it’s hard to just lie there and try to be calm and still. Like I said, it literally makes me want to scream obscenities in the air and tear my hair out.
 

I like your thoughts around not focusing so much on what works and what doesn’t work but committing to sticking to a good sleep routine/schedule no matter what the outcome. I generally feel that for the most part there is no rhyme or reason to why I am able to sleep one night but not the other. All I can do is try my best to “let go” as you said and let it exist without reacting to it so intensely.

 

I also now have anxiety about not being able to sleep, which definitely compounds the problem and in turn makes both my physical and emotional symptoms of withdrawal very unmanageable. its definitely way worse Sunday-Thursday night as I know I have to work the following morning. Friday and Saturday nights tend to be way easier.
 

Sure enough, I got into bed last night sometime between 8:30 and 9:30 and had no problem falling asleep. I woke up at 6am on the dot and my tv was still on (the Roku Home Screen - so no sound) I was lying on both my remote and phone, my fairy lights were still on and my dog was pretty much asleep on my head snoring. Basically everything that should have made for an awful night of sleep was in play and yet I can feel  that I actually got restful, deep sleep. 

 

Before even getting into bed I could just sense in my body that sleep wouldn’t be an issue for me. I passed out before I could even do my mediation and didn’t wake once in a span of probably 7 hours or so. The fact that I don’t know exactly when I fell asleep just shows that my sleep anxiety was pretty non-existent last night and that I didn’t toss and turn one bit. 
 

I think a combination of not sleeping well the night before, going to 6am power yoga (despite poor sleep), working 8-4 and having it be a Friday night, created the perfect scenario for my body to sleep. This is why I’m hoping to follow through with my plan to switch my yoga routine from evening classes after work to morning ones before work. My plan was to make this switch Monday but then I suffered that awful, two-day bout of anxiety Sunday-Monday night, which totally threw a giant wrench in it. 
 

This is when my anxiety kicks in though and I worry that since I got decent sleep last night, I will not get it tonight because I am no longer at a sleep deficit. This is where, like you said, I feel it is important to continue to practice good sleep hygiene anyways. Tonight I will make sure to put my phone away at least an hour before bed, and practice yoga nidra and/or other meditations. 
 

I’m going to get up now and start the day by taking Bubba Goose for a walk in the rain and follow that with 9am power yoga. The heated studio definitely feels best on wet, dreary days like this one. 🧘🏼‍♀️🐶❤️

 

[Mia1]

Hi @MaryMoo429I can relate to sleep anxiety, I developed a really bad case of this for months when I CT’d MMJ. I’ve written about it a lot here, this is what I’ve said: 

 

Yes, I completely understand this. So take the worry of sleep away by giving yourself permission to not sleep, put the focus on rest. If you do this then there’s no more stress, tension or anxiety about not sleeping. I know this can seem crazy because you want to sleep, right? But because sleep anxiety is a performance anxiety you have to take away the pressure. So it’s paradoxical, by giving yourself permission to not sleep you’re ensuring that you’ll most likely sleep. 

 

Like I said before though you really have to mean it. Just put the focus on resting and relaxing as deeply as you can and don’t focus on your thoughts. If you don’t sleep well it’s very important you don’t react to it. It will do nothing to help the situation and will only reinforce the sleep anxiety. You accept it and go about your day as calmly and mindfully as you can. By doing this consistently you are breaking the habit of your sleep anxiety. You are telling your brain that if you don’t sleep or sleep well it’s okay. When your brain gets the message it’s okay it stops worrying about sleep. When you don’t worry about sleep you sleep, see how that works?

 

What we focus on creates our reality so if we’re constantly focused on everything that will go wrong then that’s all we see. Acceptance is such a big part of this journey because when we accept a situation we are essentially giving ourselves permission to stop thinking about it. You’re not resigning yourself to this life, you’re just saying “okay, right now my life is like this. I’m going to meditate and practice mindfulness and other non drug coping skills. I’m going to do everything I can to change it for the better but beyond that I’ll accept whatever happens as part of the learning experience. I won’t worry about it because everything will work out.” And it really will.

 

As @deg1979said letting go of the insomnia really is key.  You seem to have good awareness surrounding this and it helps you’re practicing good sleep hygiene. I too listen to sleep sounds at night and it helps me take my focus off my thoughts. 

 

You sound good today, very positive attitude. Keep up the good work, it will only get better from here. Enjoy the weekend 🎃🧡🍁

[deg1979]

I fell asleep at 9:07 last night and woke up at 5:56 am (according to my Apple Watch). Hooray! I woke up to a thunderstorm, too, which was kind of fun and unusual. 

 

I feel optimistic today. Going to a pumpkin patch with my kids later! I'm so glad I got some rest, because I have an extra cousin today who can be a bit of a handful. I was worried I'd have another sleepless night and have to let the kids down. I, too, have less anxiety about sleeping on Friday and Saturday nights. So much of my sleep problems are caused by my worries about not sleeping. I noticed after a sleepless night, not only do I sleep better to make up the lost sleep, but my extreme exhaustion also leads to this kind of "drunken" feeling of not caring and ridiculousness. I think, "Honestly, at this point, who the F cares?" But it helps. Other times I just get so darn sick of the endless suffering and anxiety, I think I really do not care anymore. I am so over this. It helps, but I can't always maintain that feeling. 

 

I started reading Claire Weekes' Hope and Help for Your Nerves:  End Anxiety Now, and it's making a lot of sense to me. Have you guys read it? I do find myself wishing that I ONLY have anxiety that can be "cured" in the way she describes, and not actual withdrawals from meds. Still, any help I can get with anxiety is welcome!

 

But, yeah, I guess "letting go" of all of it is kind of key. And it actually sounds a lot like that super meditative stuff I never really had a reason to pay much attention to before this. I have seen some of the veteran members talk about how much this attitude has helped them, not just through recovery, but through life in general. I want to say that I am generally I super optimistic person, and I've gone through most of my life looking for "reasons" to be happy even when times are super tough. 

 

So I would just like to say, we are going to be so much stronger when we get through this. And not just that, we're actually ALREADY stronger than we were. I was on a walk the other day, which I enjoy, but I started mentally beating myself up because I had PLANS for this fall--things I wanted to do with my life. And prior to this whole fiasco, I was running daily. I can't do that right now. I was thinking, "Instead of moving forward in life, you are moving backward." But the next thought was, "No, you are ALWAYS moving forward." 

 

Every experience we have in life DOES help us to move forward. It's all experience that we need to have in order to grow. Now, not everyone does grow when they face challenges. It is a choice. But I see every single person who posts on this site moving forward. It may not look like our previous definition of "progress," and people outside of our struggle aren't going to recognize it, but WE know. We can see the progress we make, and we can see how we begin to overcome the anxiety and become stronger. 

 

Most of the pain and sorrow and anxiety we experience in life is because we are learning to let go of something, I think. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have those feelings--it's part of our experience as human beings. We can learn from the pain and sorrow and anxiety, and we can let it go over time. And it will help us that much more with the next life experience that brings those struggles back. 

 

So happy Halloween weekend, all! I hope this weekend brings you joy, and that you all sleep well, even on Sunday night, because what will be, will be. And we'll get through it. And I'm so grateful for this site to help us connect with one another. 

[Altostrata]

Good advice, @deg1979 One of the things about drug-induced problems that cause panic is that they feel so out of control. But the fact is, we cannot control everything, and need to let the wisdom of the body take over.

[MaryMoo429]

Thanks @Mia1 I have never thought of sleep anxiety as a form of performance anxiety but this makes total sense. On the nights I struggle with insomnia I most certainly am scared of not being able to perform at the level I am used to or that I would like to the following day. I am also scared of the pain and discomfort that comes with it.
 

Since lack of sleep makes me physically ill and very symptomatic these days, it’s no surprise that I also fear it. As a recovering alcoholic/addict (and simply as a human, I suppose) I have always done everything in my power and gone to any length necessary to avoid discomfort. Of course, I now know that in order to heal, grow and get better I most likely need to welcome the pain and allow my world to burn around me with as little of a reaction as possible. 
 

like you said, @deg1979most of the pain, sorrow and anxiety we experience in life comes from putting up a fight and trying to hold on to the control that we have (or think that we have). this constant fight to hold onto something we never even had in the first place only tortures us. There’s actually some comfort in the idea that most things are out of our control. It allows room to breathe and relax. 
 

Also, @deg1979 I have not read that book but it sound interesting and you’ll have to share anything you find helpful or interesting with us. 

 
I’m digging the “letting go” theme within these last posts and find it very fitting. Earlier I went on YouTube to find a meditation to do tonight before bed and landed on Alan Watts “The Power of Letting Go.” I find his voice to be very comforting and soothing. 
 

I wish everyone reading this a night of peaceful, rejuvenating sleep. if that is out of the question, I wish everyone the ability to simply let go. Even if just for the night. 🙏❤️🌜

[deg1979]

I'll have to look that up on YouTube. I had two nights in a row of great sleep! How about you?

 

[almuPA]

Hello @MaryMoo429,

 

I am so glad to read that you had a couple of nights of good sleep!! 😄

 

How are you doing? Were you able to keep that path?

 

On 10/30/2021 at 4:52 PM, deg1979 said:

So I would just like to say, we are going to be so much stronger when we get through this. And not just that, we're actually ALREADY stronger than we were.

@deg1979 That is my greatest hope, that after all this hell, I will be a much stronger person and that I would have learnt something. Thanks for the reminder.

[MaryMoo429]

@deg1979 I’m so happy to hear that you had a solid couple nights of sleep! Has this continued? 
 

@almuPAI have been sleeping better than I was a week ago for sure. I actually just got back from a 4 day property management conference in another state so had to sleep in a hotel for three nights. Surprisingly I didn’t sleep that terribly. I was averaging about 5-6 hours of sleep per night.

 

How are you doing? 

 

I have been having those energy rushes over my chest recently, however when I’m trying to fall asleep. They’re annoying and pretty uncomfortable but they no longer freak me out like they used to. They still do make me jump up and gasp for air sometimes though. 
 

Today is actually my 2 year “sober-thday.”What’s funny is I won a bottle of wine in a raffle at the conference. I even said to my friend right before they drew the winner, “just watch me win the liquor. It’ll be a sign from God that he wants me to drink.” And sure enough I won it. I didn’t drink it, however and gave it to my friend instead. I just thought it was wild.
 

To add to it, the following night I won another raffle for a $50 gas card. I NEVER win raffles either. Especially ones between 200 people. What are the odds? I like to think that it was some kind of sign reassuring me that I’m following the right path. Who knows though? 

I did dust my Big Book off last night and read The Doctor’s Opinion and Bill’s Story for the first time in well over a year. I followed that with another Alan Watts speech. I slept pretty well last night so think I will stick to a similar routine tonight.

❤️🙏

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by ChessieCat
changed to wine

[ChessieCat]

  

1 hour ago, MaryMoo429 said:

Today is actually my 2 year “sober-thday.”What’s funny is I won a bottle of wine in a raffle at the conference.

 

That is ironic isn't it?  I'm glad you weren't tempted.

 

Congratulations!!!  And to have won the wine a few days before.  That's funny.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by ChessieCat
removed extra quote

[deg1979]

I have been sleeping well this week! 

 

Your funny wine story reminds me of Alanis Morrisette's Isn't it Ironic? song!

 

Insomnia and anxiety really are a terrible combination. The strange this is, I battled them from ages 9-11, then not again until this past year. It's so frustrating. I thought I was over that struggle, or that I had conquered it and would never face it again. It has been humbling to realize anxiety and insomnia were always just kind of waiting to reappear! I'm much better equipped to deal with them at my age than I was when I was little.

 

The feeling you have in your chest--is it like a really intense wave of squeezing and almost like a burning, overwhelming sensation? That happens to me also. Sometimes I can't tell which comes first--the feeling or the anxiety. Congratulations on your soberthday! I come from a long line of alcoholics who never recovered, so I am impressed. I only avoided it myself by being so afraid of the stuff I never tried drinking it!

 

I had a setback Mon/Tues because I thought I was doing so well I might be OK eating Halloween candy for lunch both days. Let's just say it caught up with me! I felt a lot more anxiety. 

 

My husband suffers from really extreme vestibular migraines. He had one Halloween night. He's still pretty sick from it. I feel bad for him when it happens, but at the same time this one was caused by cold turkey quitting his meds--300 mg gabapentin and 50 mg topiramate. I will say I was upset with him for apparently not listening to anything I've said in the last two months about what I have learned about quitting medications from SAD! 

 

In related news, I decided to try one of those low histamine, anti-inflammatory type diets. To help him, and maybe help me as well. It's kind of strange, but almost all of my kids have some kind of issue with having abnormal electrical activity in their brains. My husband has the vestibular migraines, my oldest son has migraines, one daughter has bipolar disorder, one has epilepsy, and then two other so far just have some anxiety issues. (Yes, I have a lot of kids.) The particular diet we will be attempting to follow is the migraine prevention diet detailed in the book Heal Your Headache. I also found a good blog with recipes called thedizzycook.com. I've seen other members mention low histamine diets, and since hydroxyzine is currently helping me in some mysterious way (and it's an antihistamine), I thought it is worth a try at least. Anyone ever tried this?

[MaryMoo429]

Hey @deg1979. Happy Saturday  

 

The feeling I get in my chest is not a burning or squeezing but what I can best describe as this rush of warm anxious energy that flows over my heart area and jolts me awake often causing me to jump up and gasp for air. It happens RIGHT as I’m about to bridge the gap between sleep and wakefulness. 
 

Many times it also feels as though my heart stops beating. My resting heart rate is very low with an average around 46. When I’m sleeping it sometimes dips to like 38bpm so when this started happening to me last winter and I noticed how low my heart rate was I convinced myself something was wrong structurally or electrically.

 

I seriously abused Adderall and other prescribed amphetamines for 11+ years so this was something that had always been very much in the back of my mind as an absolute possibility. So when these feelings started happening every night I was certain that my heart was failing on me and was going to stop beating.
 

This thought only exacerbated these awful sensations and I think subconsciously I was trying to will my own heart to keep beating because I didn’t believe it was going to be able to do it own it’s own. They only got better when I tried to let go of some of that pseudo control and trust in my body’s organic physiology. It was challenging though and I really wasn’t able to do so until I had hard evidence. I had several ekgs done as well as an echocardiogram and after the echo I was finally able to trust the diagnostics a great deal more. 
 

I feel you with the Halloween candy, I have a love for sugar myself. Since getting sober this is something that nags at me pretty hard. I really have to be careful I don’t switch one addiction for another with the sugar, so really try to be mindful of my eating. I have a history with eating disorders as well so this is something that is always present and that I’m constantly working on.
 

I struggle a lot and fall on my face every so often but I do my best to keep moving forward and trying to stay healthy with both diet and exercise. Less black and white, all or nothing thinking and more in the gray area(which is hard for me and many others with addiction issues). 

 

Oohh I’ve heard several people on here talk about following a histamine diet. I also took hydroxyzine for a little bit when I was trying to come off benzos but I gave it up after a few weeks - month as I felt it did absolutely nothing for my anxiety at that time. Like giving an opiate addict an aspirin. 
 

Please let me know how the diet goes, I’m very curious to hear of any benefits! Also hoping your husband feels better soon! Gabapentin is no joke and doctors treat it as such and prescribe it for EVERYTHING now. This is another one I was prescribed but didn’t take longer than a few weeks to a month as I didn’t want to get addicted to it and have to withdraw from it.

 

I actually had to inform my doctor that people highly abuse gabapentin (especially people using opiates simultaneously) and that you have withdrawals from it. She basically told me I was wrong when I have been to treatment and lived in sober houses with many people who have done just this.
 

The kicker is that she tried to prescribe it to me at another appointment a few months later (this last winter) when she knows my substance abuse history as well as my belief that psych meds damaged me and that I DO NOT WANT ANY MORE. 

 

I’m off to morning yoga but hope you enjoy this lovely Saturday. Peace, happiness and healing to you🙏❤️☮️
 

 

[MaryMoo429]

A year ago today I had my first “episode” after coming off of my last medication on September 14th 2020. Its been a downward spiral that I haven’t come back from yet. I’m holding onto Hope that the key word here is “yet.”

 

If I made it through one year I believe I have the strength to make it through one more and go from there. To think of anything more than a year at a time is too much for me to handle and seems overwhelming and unattainable. 

 

“Patience” and “loving kindness” are my words of the day❤️

[deg1979]

@MaryMoo429, Yay, happy one year of surviving! Today is my two month mark for my adverse reaction from Lexapro. I can't help but be impressed by so many members who struggle for so long. Before this experience, I was completely unaware that suffering of this kind existed. 

 

I made a mistake. I tried to add a supplement and it did not go well. I'm having one of those awful days where I think I slept 1-2 hrs total, jerking awake constantly with a pounding heart. It was frustrating, and I could calm myself, but it was super hard. And then I would fall back asleep only to jerk awake in the same hyperaware condition just a little while later. 

 

I'm trying to keep a good attitude about it. Before this happened, if I had a night with little sleep, I'd think longingly of my bed all day long. Like, oh, I can't wait to go to bed tonight. Since this and the incredibly horrific anxiety that have followed, I have been battling that performance sleep anxiety we discussed. So today I am really trying to channel that old, "I can't wait to go to bed tonight," feeling rather than the, "Oh my gosh, what if I can't sleep tonight, too," feeling!

 

I hate trying to figure out what is going on all the time. It's exhausting. It could be the supplement, but I'm also wondering if it could be a menstrual cycle/hormone thing. I noticed that my adverse reaction happened 9/9, and I looked back at 10/9, which was also brutal, and here we are on 11/9. Maybe I will start tracking my basal body temp in the mornings to see if I am ovulating. I have a Mirena IUD, so I'm not sure if I am or not. Do you notice much cycle related anxiety?

 

I feel like I set myself way back as far as my poor central nervous system, but hopefully it will resolve and turn around soon. I think I need to learn that same lesson that I feel like we are all learning--just let it be. Let time heal. Trying to hard seems to end up hurting, more often than not. 

[MaryMoo429]

Hey @deg1979 sorry to hear about your setback. What supplement did you try to add? I know on here everyone says that the only supplements ok to take are magnesium and fish oil. I take others but only do so because I was already taking them before I went into withdrawal.

 

Like you I’m also continuing to fight the insomnia and sleep anxiety. Some nights are better than others and there often doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason as to why. Very frustrating.

 

Yes, some months I definitely notice that my anxiety and symptoms are heightened around the time of my cycle. I read that the amount of serotonin in your brain continues to decrease right up until you start your period and then starts to rise again. I’m guessing that this has something to do with it. 
 

Ive been having a rough week. Today I’ve been battling extreme depression, alcoholic thought patterns and RIDfulness (restless, irritable and discontent). These are feeling that have always been there since before withdrawal but definitely are heightened now.  
 

Lots of anger and feelings of wanting to scream and break things. Also feeling bad about myself for feeling this way. Angry that I can’t get out of my own way. Really want to drink. Really, really want to drink.
 

I went on a drive to listen to a new album that one of my favorite bands just put out yesterday and I pulled over and sobbed. It felt good for a minute.
 

Last night I had an appointment with a new psychiatric NP. He told me that at this point after two years being sober and 14 months being off meds that I’m at my baseline. Made me feel crazy and misunderstood. Nothing new. 
 

He suggested Lexapro, Clonidine and Propanalol. I refused all. Also told him that I passed out in a yoga class once while in withdrawals from Kratom and on Clonidine. I also almost passed out from Propanalol in a yoga class a few years prior as well. 
 

I told him no thank you and explained the reasons why. I was very frustrated and after the appointment I called my mom and cried. I don’t even know why I bothered to try to see a professor again. 
 

I’m seeing my doctor on the 29th and having a blood test done for Lyme disease. I asked her if we can test for autoimmune diseases or if there’s a way to test me for long haul covid syndrome since I’ve been vaccinated. She told me she wants to examine me before she orders more tests.

 

I keep pulling deer ticks off my dog and it’s freaking me out. I live in northern New England where Lyme is prevalent so it’s always a huge concern. Many of the chronic Lyme symptoms are similar to what I’m experiencing.  
 

My hair has been failing out in large amounts every time I shower too. This has been happening since February. I looked back on my patient portal and found a message from me to my doctor from March 3rd telling her of this new symptom. Looking back it’s right after I had my second covid shot. 
 

So many physical and mental symptoms that I don’t know what’s happening in my body. Not sure if all of this is from withdrawal or not. Feeling very depressed and hopeless about it all today. Hopefully these feelings will pass soon. Today I’m heavy in the depression which sucks but is honestly way more tolerable than the anxiety. 
 

I have two mental states of being these days: one of extreme anxiety and one of depression. rather than get upset with myself for feeling miserable today I’m just going to wallow in it for a bit and let it run its course. Nothing is permanent. I must remember that. 
 

[deg1979]

My week was also not great. After the all-nighter, I woke up every morning during the 4 o'clock hour. It was so aggravating. The kind of wake up where you bolt awake in full adrenaline mode, ready to wrestle a bear or something. I wasn't ever able to sleep afterward. Super annoying. I agree; the only thing that seems to dictate my sleep is really whether I'm in a wave or a window, or whether I'm experiencing depression or anxiety. And my body totally does its own thing when it makes me bolt awake around 4:30 am every morning. 

 

I took an "anxiety relief" combo with ashwagandha and L-theanine in it. It made me extremely irritable and activated at first, then the anxiety just amped up until I was in that awful state where all I could really do was ride it out and pray it ended soon. It's so frustrating, because I really don't know what caused it. I'm not touching another supplement. 

 

I understand completely all of your health worries. I have the same thing going on. I mean, different worries, same health anxiety. I personally think (and my dr agrees) that the covid vaccines can cause some massive inflammation in some people. She has a patient who developed Bell's palsy afterward, then there was a local man in his 30s who had a pulmonary embolism and died, and I had a deep vein thrombosis and then a pulmonary embolism after my second dose. I am not antivax in any way. I was vaccinated somewhat early, so ever step of the way in emergency care I was told it wasn't possible to get a clot from the vaccine. I have gotten all of my kids vaccinated when they become eligible, and I do not share my story with those who I know are antivax or who aren't vaccinated yet. But I definitely think it can be a catalyst for some inflammation related issues in our bodies under the right (or wrong) circumstances. 

 

I know several people who have had Lyme, and I have had a scare myself and gotten tested several years ago. It certainly can't hurt, and hopefully you can be treated for it and find some relief if that's it. I am currently trying to avoid health-anxiety-obsessing about the whole histamine thing. They talk about if you have low diamine oxidase levels you can't keep up with the histamine levels inside the body. And I think there's a connection between DAO levels and whether or not you methylate correctly. I know I don't, because my dr did a psychiatric med DNA panel on me last month. I have two copies of the "bad methylation" gene. I take Methylfolate and have for years, because my daughter has bipolar disorder and had the same panel done on her a few years back. She also is a poor methylator, and I figured she got it from me. Now that I researched the connected between low DAO, histamine levels, and migraine activity, I think my husband is probably a bad methylator, too. We're about a week into the low-histamine migraine diet. It's a little hard to get the kinks worked out, so I don't think I can say whether it has helped at all yet. 

 

My hair falls out really bad after I have a hormone shift that lowers my estrogen levels. I lose like half the hair on my head every time I have a baby. I had to go off the combo pill after the DVT & PE in Feb, so my hair fell out for 6 months or so. 

 

I don't think your blurry vision is caused by your age. My husband and I noticed no significant changes in vision until after 40, and then it starts to happen pretty dramatically. And it's your near vision that it affects as well as the ability to quickly switch back and forth from near to far. 

 

I feel the same as you in always searching for answers and solutions for what my body and brain are going through. I think we are trying to solve the problem and fix ourselves. It is hard to strike a balance between actually helping and not further increasing our anxiety. This week I recognized I shouldn't keep researching all of the histamine DAO stuff with the amped up anxiety I had going on. More often than not, I think the anxiety we experience in withdrawal is the "chemical" variety, or instigated by some unknown process our brains are going through as they struggle to heal. But we can definitely make it worse once that starts, I think.

 

It is incredibly frustrating to have anxiety and depression so terrifying that we're afraid we're losing our minds, and yet we know if we seek help from they psych community we will only end up on more drugs. One of my fears that I do not let myself dwell on is that I will have to be admitted to the psych ward and will be put on more meds. Luckily my PMHNP just smiled and nodded when I said I just wanted to try to get off the hydroxyzine. I agree that it does maybe not much for the anxiety. I am really mystified as to how it helps me at all. I mean, I assume it does. I think it must be lowering inflammation in my brain. Somewhere else on this site I posted a study I found about the benefits of treating autistic children with hydroxyzine rather than benzodiazepines or SSRIs (the horror of treating autistic kids with those things!), in part for hydroxyzine's ability to lower inflammation in the brain. That was about when I made my peace with taking it for now. I worry about getting off of it, though, because I'm not sure I'll ever believe anyone again when they say I "should" be able to just stop taking something at any time!

 

I forgot to mention to you that my heart rate is also low, and I couldn't tolerate propranolol for the same reason. I often have that low blood pressure fade-out of my vision when I stand, and anxiety often makes it worse, so adding to propranolol got me to the point where one day I was having to sit repeatedly in random places as I talked to my kids because I honestly think I was going to pass out. My vision wasn't fading back in like it does after a few seconds. Also, I was taking the propranolol 4x a day, and it gave me incredibly disturbing dreams. So my normal resting heart rate is about 55--it can be lower some days, but it's higher on my more anxious days. I am a runner, but not a distance runner. Prior to my adverse reaction, I just ran 3 miles 5-6 days a week. I also lifted weights. Now I just walk, but it's more hiking because it's very hilly. I am trying to get back into the weights. I run if I am feeling good mentally and physically, or when I am having a day where I just say F this withdrawals, I'm going to do what I want, but it does seem to activate the anxiety mechanism. Not the act of running, which I find meditative, but afterward I have this weird kind of exhausted feeling that I never had before, and it turns into what I call the live wire feeling, or my dr calls "psychomotor agitation," but feels like my own version of hell. I agree, the depression is brutal, but anxiety is my personal bogeyman.

 

The physical toll of withdrawal is no joke. It's not as disturbing as the mental aspects of it, but it's scary nonetheless. When I sleep, my heart rate normally goes to 38-39 beats at its lowest point. When I am anxious it actually doesn't go as low, which I have been using to gauge how messed up I am on any given day/week. I noticed that the week I had good sleep my heart rate was going that low, which is normal for me when I look back at my Apple Health history, but when I am struggling with the panic waking, the lowest my heart rate goes is 50. But yeah, that was the reason I gave my psych person for refusing propranolol. 

 

They really don't understand, and it's frustrating. I had plans for this fall. I have five kids, and finally my youngest was starting kindergarten. I was going to finish up the last bits of my bachelor's degree and then get my master's and become a LMFT, or marriage and family therapist. When the depression hits and tells me I'm failing to meet my goals, I try to hit it back by saying that we're always moving forward, even if it isn't in the way we expected or planned. This experience will help us. It shapes us, and makes us more compassionate, understanding people. And lord knows, the world needs more of those!

 

 

 

 

 

[getofflex]

19 hours ago, MaryMoo429 said:

Last night I had an appointment with a new psychiatric NP. He told me that at this point after two years being sober and 14 months being off meds that I’m at my baseline. Made me feel crazy and misunderstood. Nothing new. 
 

He suggested Lexapro, Clonidine and Propanalol. I refused all.

What did he mean by "at my baseline"?  He does not sounds like a good fit for you, if he made you feel crazy and misunderstood.  I've been to several therapists, some good, some bad, and some in between.  I'm proud of you for refusing the drugs that he tried to prescribe to you.  

[MaryMoo429]

@getofflex I took it as him meaning that I should be stabilized by now and no longer suffering from withdrawal. That the symptoms I’m experiencing are part of my anxiety/mental illness and that this is how I’m going to be forever. Unless I go back on meds. 
 

I got my Moderna booster shot yesterday after work so have just been taking it easy since then. Just a weird headache but honestly it’s not much different from how I usually feel. 
 

@deg1979 I hope you’re having a good week my friend  

 

Will post more when I’m feeling a little better mentally and physically. 

[deg1979]

@MaryMoo429, I am doing pretty well! Hanging in there. Glad to hear your booster isn't bugging you too much. I'm afraid to get mine right now, so I'm holding out. Mostly I was holding out for the Moderna booster (I had Pfizer the first two), so hopefully it will be available here soon. I also had an adverse reaction to my covid vaccinations, so I'm a little hesitant. 2021 has been a s*&% year). I'm also afraid it will further upset my nervous system. But my 5 and 11 year olds are getting their shots next week! Pretty soon our entire family will be vaccinated, which gives me some peace of mind. 

[getofflex]

3 hours ago, MaryMoo429 said:

@getofflex I took it as him meaning that I should be stabilized by now and no longer suffering from withdrawal. That the symptoms I’m experiencing are part of my anxiety/mental illness and that this is how I’m going to be forever. Unless I go back on meds. 

S/he has no way of knowing if this is your baseline.  Personally, I suspect that you will continue to improve.  You were on many meds, and it can take multiple years to fully recover.  Shep is a prime example of this. Read her story here: 

 

Shep's Success Leaving Plato's Cave

[MaryMoo429]

@getofflex I also agree that he has no way of knowing what my baseline is but I'm starting to fear that I don't know either as it was when I was 13. I never has the level of anxiety that I do now at that age but wonder if getting older, personal experiences, traumas and the meds and drugs I was on/abused for years created the "baseline" I have right now. I just don't know. 

 

On Saturday night I was lying in bed and around 11pm I felt a PVC in my heart. These happen to me frequently and normally they correct themselves after a few seconds but this episode lasted for over a minute. My heart rhythm would not correct itself and it scared me so much that I then had a massive panic attack where my body was shaking/tremoring uncontrollably and I couldn't get myself up off my bedroom floor. my BP was elevated and got up to 150/99 (which is notably very high for me) and it took over an hour to come back down.

 

My mom was with me and was so upset by the whole event. She see's how terribly I'm doing and its killing her. I also hate it as my dad just had surgery on hit other hip and I'm selfishly consuming all their energy when things should be focused on him. 

 

The next day I was so traumatized by the night before that I couldn't do anything but lay on my couch under my weighed blanket. My mom had to take me grocery shopping as I was terrified to go alone. I was certain that I was going to have a heart attack. 

 

Yesterday I woke up and felt as if someone had kicked a soccer ball into my chest. I also had crippling anxiety about the vaccine I had Friday, the episode Saturday night and wondering if something had happened to my heart. I went to work but had such bad anxiety coupled with physical symptoms that I had a massive panic attack while driving to meet a client that I had to turn around and head to the hospital. I thought I was going to die and/or cause and accident while trying to get myself there. 

 

I was at urgent care for just shy of 5 hours and they did and ekg, full panel blood test, and a Troponin test (to see if I'd had a heart attack). All of these came back fine. I went home so utterly exhausted and drained from the chain of events that I got straight in bed. I called my mom freaking out again as I thought they missed something as I still felt horrible and like I was dying. She was so upset again. 

 

I made it to work today but now just feel traumatized by the last 4 days. I can't continue to live like this. I keep having to use sick time and am becoming unreliable as I can't show up for work or obligations or my life AT ALL. I am definitely getting worse. As much as I hate the idea of it, I am starting to consider reinstating a low dose SSRI. I understand that this can further upset my nervous system and make withdraws worse but I honestly can't live like this any longer. 

 

I'm thinking of talking to my doctor when I see her on Monday. I have an appointment with her then to get tests done for Lyme and autoimmune diseases. I really don't want to go back on them and am terrified to do so, but I don't know how things could get much worse than they are now.