Gigi68: introduction

[Gigi68]

Hello, I am 68 and this is my first experience with antidepressants. I began having severe stomach pain summer 2020 and lost 20 pounds. 

 

A gastroenterologist prescribed 7.5mg of Buspirone taken 2x/day. Because I was depressed about my stomach issues, my family insisted I see a psychiatrist who prescribed 7.5mg of Mirtazapine 1x/day. I began taking both about the same time in early December.

 

In addition I began taking Hcl with pepsin for the stomach issues. My stomach issues have resolved and I have gained 6 pounds. But the drugs make me so lethargic and fuzzy brained. At first the Mirtazapine helped with sleep but now I frequently sleep very little, often less than 2 hours a night. 

I have decided to taper off the Mirtazapine and have just started with a 10% drop begun 5 days ago. I have felt ok so far just a little nausea. I need encouragement and ideas for sleep please as well as for my journey. I currently take 400mg of magnesium glycinate (100mg in the morning, 300 mg before bed), do restorative yoga before bed, do guided meditation, and meet with a therapist. Can’t take melatonin, gives me diarrhea. Also my gastroenterologist told me to get off the Mirtazapine but he thinks it can be done in 2 weeks. I am very frightened and anxious about the whole thing.  

Edited February 18, 2021 by manymoretodays
name to title, spaced for ease of readability

[Erell]

Hello Gigi68, 

 

And welcome on SA.

 

This site is run entirely by volunteer Administrators and Moderators, all have been through or going through withdrawal.

There are no commercial interests or influences  involved.

 

And I'm sorry for what you're going through : unfortunately psychiatrists don't seem to understand how powerful these drugs can be.

->I see that you've created a signature : thank you, it will helps us to see your history at a glance. Could you please add supplements and all drugs (are you still taking Hcl ?)

 

-> As the drug you take may conflict with each other, please check your drugs interactions here : https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check
Please paste here the report here.

 

On 2/16/2021 at 9:04 PM, Gigi68 said:

I have decided to taper off the Mirtazapine and have just started with a 10% drop begun 5 days ago. I have felt ok so far just a little nausea. .  

Glad to know that the drop is going ok so far.
Perhaps you'll be interested by this thread : 

 

tips-for-tapering-off-mirtazapine-remeron

 

 

On 2/16/2021 at 9:04 PM, Gigi68 said:

I need encouragement and ideas for sleep please as well as for my journey. 

We all have been or are going through WD, so we do understand  And the good news is, people do get better ☀️
 

About sleep : a lot of folks here are having issues with sleep. Some take melatonine, but you mentioned that it doesn't help you.
You might find ideas in this thread : 

tips-to-help-sleep-so-many-of-us-have-that-awful-withdrawal-insomnia

 

On 2/16/2021 at 9:04 PM, Gigi68 said:

 I currently take 400mg of magnesium glycinate (100mg in the morning, 300 mg before bed), do restorative yoga before bed, do guided meditation, and meet with a therapist. 

 

Good about magnesium, a lot of people find that it helps them during their journey. Some also find that fish oil help : 
king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil

 

And we often recommend people to learn nondrug coping skills : it seems that you already have great tools to help your CNS !

 

On 2/16/2021 at 9:04 PM, Gigi68 said:

I am very frightened and anxious about the whole thing.  

It can be frightening to discover how powerfull those psychdrugs are, and how little psychiatrists know. But honestly ? I think you'll be fine : I can't predict the future, but a lot of us came on SA after lots of mistakes, while you are at the begining of a taper of low doses and you'll have tons of infos in hand to keep symptoms at minimal.

 

On 2/16/2021 at 9:04 PM, Gigi68 said:

to get off the Mirtazapine but he thinks it can be done in 2 weeks.

We don't recommend to go that fast : actually we recommend no more than 10% drops every four weeks. And this is not a universal rule, some people have to do smaller drops or to wait longer between drops. This is not a race : the goal is to remove the drug smoothly, our Central nervous systems are the leader and we adopt his pace

Again welcome  

 

[Gigi68]

Help please! I am 28 days into my first taper-10% from 7.5mg (to 6.7ml) and have discovered I’ve been diluting my 7.5mg Mirtazapine pill in too much liquid. I have been using what I thought was 3.75ml of water and 3.75ml of syrup.I discovered  the mistake because I ordered a graduated cylinder thinking it would be easier to measure liquids in it rather than the 5ml and 1 ml syringes I’ve been using. I decided to check the syringes compared to the cylinder and see that on the 5ml syringe I have actually been using 4.75ml of water and 4.75ml of syrup. I think my mistake has been making sure all of the liquid in the syringe comes out but now I think it should still have 1 ml in the tip. Is this correct? I have been drawing out what I thought was 6.7ml but must actually be 7.7ml.  So my question is, how much of the drug am I actually getting? And what should I do now?

[Altostrata]

@brassmonkey, could you help @Gigi68 with the calculations? Thanks.

[brassmonkey]

It appears that you are trying to make a 1:1 solution using a 7.5mg tablet dissolved in a total of 7.5mL of liquid. Then you want to take a dose containing 6.7mg of Active Ingredient. If your liquid truly is 1:1 then you would measure out a dose of 6.7mL. When you take the dose there will be a little bit of liquid left in the syringe tip. This is taken into consideration in the design of the syringe and does not count for the dose. You can leave it there or clean it out with some water and just toss it away.

 

For doing fine work the syringe is going to be more accurate than the cylinder.

 

How are you making your liquid? I know you are using one 7.5mg tablet, but how much total liquid are you dissolving it in? Are you using a full syringe each of water and syrup? or are you measuring 3.75mL of each one and combining them before dissolving the tablet?

[Gigi68]

Thanks for your reply Brassmonkey. I have been crushing the 7.5mg pill, then adding what I thought was 3.75ml of water, shaking it up and then adding what I thought was 3.75ml of syrup. However I was using a 20ml syringe (not 5ml that I stated in my original post) that had a very long tip. I should have realized that the liquid in the tip should not be used but the drug made me so muddle brained, I just thought everything went in. I used the graduated cylinder to figure out that the tip held almost an additional 1ml of liquid, so that meant I was using almost 2ml more than I should have because of doing it twice, once for water, once for syrup. So I ended up with 9.5ml of solution instead of 7.5ml. Then I drew up what I thought was 6.7ml (6ml in the 20ml syringe and .7ml in my 1ml syringe) However with the additional 1ml in the 20ml syringe, my dose was actually 7.7ml. 
 

My question was how much medication am I taking in a dose with these figures. I believe I have figured it out. Is this correct... Divide the dose 7.7ml by the total liquid 9.5ml? The answer .81 is the percentage of the 7.5mg pill I am taking or 6.075mg. 
 

Since I posted above I have purchased some 10ml syringes and have been using one to measure out 3ml of water and 3ml of syrup, leaving whatever is in the tip behind. Then using a 1ml syringe, I measure out .75ml of water and .75ml of syrup. Shake it up and withdraw 6.1ml for my dose. 
 

I had intended to do a 10% drop, not 19% but it’s been 5 weeks and I seem to have stabilized on this dose but did have some rough moments the first two weeks. Going to try 5% next time!

 

I have one more question. I plan to continue using 7.5ml of solution but what is the least amount of syrup I can use to make a suspension? I would like to minimize the amount of sugar I’m getting. 
 

I hope I have explained all of this clearly. Thanks again for your help!!

[Altostrata]

If you use the liquid in the tip of the syringe, that is at least a constant throughout your taper. I would keep to a consistent method rather than overthink the measurement. Either use the same syringe for measuring the liquid for your suspension or use the graduated cylinder.

 

I do not believe the syrup has sugar in it, it's an artificial flavoring. Please ask your pharmacist about this. I'd suspect you'd want to put enough in for the flavor you like best.

[Gigi68]

Thanks for your reply Altostrata. I have reduced my dose by 5% and am now at 5.9mg. This is the fourth day and I have been fine although today I feel a little bit agitated and have a slight headache. I plan to hold for two weeks and then reduce another 5%.

[Gigi68]

Just want to do an update on my progress. On 5.9ml I developed diarrhea on day 11 of my reduction. I quit magnesium and then my other supplements and it cleared up after a week but then I was constipated. Can’t win. Took 100mg of magnesium glycinate for a couple of days but got diarrhea again. Quit that and now have diarrhea very occasionally. I reduced again to 5.6ml and held that for two weeks. Sleep was good on this dose and I could even nap some which I couldn’t do on higher doses. WD not too bad. I have had blurry vision off and on since starting Mirtazapine. It is mostly better now but a weird thing I have noticed lately is when I’m in a car, my vision is blurry in the middle distance. It’s like my eyes can’t keep up with the rapid change in refocusing. Also I’m having a lot of joint and especially back pain which I have never had in the past. 
 

My current dose is 5.3ml and I’m noticing a lot more sedation on this dose. It seems getting some exercise helps though. 

[marie123]

Hello Gigi. Glad to have found your thread. The Mirt makes me constipated and at times I get the loose bowels too. Light exercise and eating some yummy dried figs help with the constipation. Drink lots of water. The weird focusing while driving, joint/back pain and sedation is all Mirt w/d related. If I cut too much my vision gets real wonky and I can't drive. It happened to me a few times. So I don't make bigger cuts. Cutting 10% per month is a good guideline, but if you think you need to go slower or smaller cuts for less intense symptoms, do that. I go slower than that, about 5% a month.  Have you read the Mirt success stories? I do that every now and then for encouragement. There is a facebook book page with lots of Mirt people. Good luck. Marie.

[Gigi68]

Thanks for the reply Marie. Looks like you are very experienced at tapering! On my first drop my brain was so befuddled that I was using the syringe incorrectly and did a 17% drop when I meant to do 10%. I suffered badly for two weeks but then started feeling much better than I had on 7.5mg. I’ve done 5% drops since then and am trying two week holds now. Yesterday and today have been rough but I’m feeling better this evening. I will have a look at the success stories. 

[marie123]

Hi Gigi. I re-read your post again about your new taper schedule of 2.5% each week for four weeks and then a two week hold. Just be careful, if w/d feels too much as you taper hold. I hope it goes really well for you. Be well. Marie.

[Gigi68]

Thanks Marie, I appreciate your comments. You have a lot more experience with tapering than I do. I have been doing 5% for two weeks at a time since April 23 with a 3 week hold on the last one. Really felt great during that third week. I want to try the 2.5% to see if I can avoid some of WD at the beginning of each reduction. I am hoping to keep up with 10%/month or 6 weeks for as long as possible. Glad you’ve been able to do some gardening. Summer is so precious! We need to be out enjoying it as much as possible!

[Gigi68]

Five months of tapering update. So after 5 months, I am down to 4.5ml from 7.5mg. In mid-June, I started reducing with a variation of the Brass Monkey Slide Method. I’ve been reducing by 2.5% and holding for 7-12 days each. This has been a lot easier for me than doing 5% reductions and I’ve had very few WD symptoms. I feel very lucky to have had far more windows than waves during my taper. 

 

As I’ve gotten lower, I’ve noticed a big reduction in most of the side effects I’ve experienced since I first started taking Mirtazapine. The dizziness, brain fog, agitation, anxiety, joint pain, backache, and blurry vision are gone. I still have some palpitations and globus sensation but both are much better. Still have tinnitus which I’ve had since I first started the drug. The only WD symptoms I continue to notice are very mild nausea, occasional diarrhea, and a little trouble falling asleep sometimes. I often feel sedated but think that is a side effect of the drug and hope it drops out at some point. 
 

I’m on my 4th reduction of  2.5% and plan to hold this for two weeks. I’m just wondering if at some point, I should pause for a month (or more) even if I’m feeling good? There seems to be some thought that because Mirtazapine has such a long half life, that problems can show up much later. Any advice is much appreciated! 
 

 

[Gigi68]

Eight months of tapering and I am at 3.84ml. I held at 3.96ml for a month to give myself a break from tapering. It went well, no surprises as the month went on. But my latest drop to 3.84ml has been different. Typically within the first few days I feel down for a day or two and might have a bit of diarrhea and I insomnia, but I usually stabilize fairly quickly. Not this time. I have had more nausea than previously, bad diarrhea, a return of blurry vision, insomnia, and new symptoms of headache, burning ears and tingling scalp. An interesting and welcome thing is that I don’t have much anxiety any more and don’t feel as sedated as I did. I continue to have palpitations, globus sensation, and tinnitus. I thought I had solved the diarrhea problem when I started a low histamine probiotic. It was gone for 6 weeks but now back. I am 13 days into this reduction and will be holding until symptoms ease. Any suggestions about how to deal with these new symptoms is appreciated. 

[marie123]

Hi Gigi. I just wanted to respond that sometimes when we cut, even if it's the same small amount, the symptoms can be worse. Other symptoms can appear too. This is a sign to me that all my previous cuts are catching up and I'd better slow down and hold until I feel better. That has worked with me with tapering Mirt. We have to keep trudging along tapering but it will get us to the end. This I know. Be well. Marie.

[Mimi65]

Hey Gigi,

sorry things are rough for you, hope they’re improving by now.  I’m struggling myself right now with the last cut, lots of symptoms but the worst for me is the insomnia, I plan on holding now until sleep improves.

[Gigi68]

Hi Marie and Mimi, thanks for your responses. I am feeling better now after 21 days and have stabilized on this dose. Even sleeping ok. I recently traveled from Wyoming to Arizona where I will spend the winter. The trip was ok. I even drove some each day. Thankfully my husband doesn’t mind driving. I am going on a 4 day trip to Mexico 2 weeks from now so I’ll hold at this dose until after the trip. Then it will be time for the next drop. Hope you are both feeling as well as possible.

[savinggrace]

Hi Gigi,

I am trying not to hijack Marie's thread again by posting here.

 

Insomnia has been my Achilles' heel for my whole life...even as a child.   As far as treating the insomnia, EVERYTHING interferes with my drug levels and affects my sleep.  I am severely vitamin D deficient but it gives me immediate insomnia (I have tried it in every form possible).  It is actually a steroid-like hormone that resets your circadian rhythm.  Many claim it helps their sleep but I keep a health journal and it is clear that my sleep deteriorates immediately with D supplementation....even from sun exposure.  Probiotics affect my sleep as well.  Not surprising as our gut is our second brain and lined with neuro-transmitters.   Pretty much all herbs affect and/or interact with these drugs, especially remeron which is affected by anything that affects the CYP 2D6 enzyme.  (they can induce or inhibit the metabolism of a drug).  I don't know if I will live long enough to even try tapering remeron, though Marie's progress has been very encouraging.  (She has had to take so many other drugs for her dental problems; I would never get away with that) We are all so different.   So I don't mess with essential oils or anything else really.  I tough out most of my health problems w/o drugs because of the immediate and dangerous interactions they cause me.  I do know that I have some genetic problems that affect how I metabolize psychiatric drugs.  Too bad the doctors didn't know it, and didn't put me on these drugs to begin with.  My husband and I would have completely changed our lives 25 years ago, and done what we had to do had we had any of this knowledge.  Now my choice is to live in severe w/d, go to rehab, and then be in severe post-acute w/d, or go on different drugs which would just lead to exacerbating the current health problems or cause new ones.

 

I am unclear.  Are you still taking the Buspirone?  If yes, it has benzo-like activity and can eventually ruin your sleep, just like all these drugs do. 

 

If you just on mirtazapine it seems like you are on a good path and will be successful even though the insomnia is tough to deal with.  That said, you wrote yesterday that your sleep was pretty good, so I think you are probably doing as well as can be expected.

 

I wish you luck and have a great time in Mexico.  With some caution, you will probably be just fine.  I am going to check out that Arizona resort you mention right now.  Sounds like a good plan for next winter!

 

Grace

[Gigi68]

Good morning Grace, I am so sorry to hear about all of the troubles you have had with drugs, supplements and more. I don’t really know anything about biochemistry but it seems to me that problems with AD’s and other psychotropic drugs is all about metabolic issues and little to do with mental health. I would have to say that’s Mirtazapine has caused the most mental anguish I have ever had. My 7.5mg dose made me incredibly mentally, physically and emotionally ill and it’s not even considered to be a therapeutic dose! Fortunately as I have tapered I am feeling so much better despite having to deal with some very nasty WD symptoms. It gives me hope that someday I will be able to get off of it. 
 

I am still on Buspirone. I didn’t want to taper more than one drug at a time. I have never felt like it did anything for me positive or negative but it’s hard to say since I started both drugs about the same time.  
 

I had been sleeping ok for about a month until the past week. Then each night I was sleeping less. Now, the past two nights have been much better, so I guess it has been another WD problem. Maybe it will be ok now until my next drop. 
 

Green Valley is a town, not a resort. We rented a house the first two winters we came and then bought one, we liked it here so much. 
 

I am leaving for Mexico on Tuesday. Thanks for the tips! 

 

 

 

[Gigi68]

I have now been tapering for 11 months. Sometimes I am so tired of the whole process- making the liquid every night, having WD symptoms, etc. But when I think back to my life a year ago, I am in a much better place. Mirtazapine made me so incredibly ill. I was barely functioning- couldn't drive, read a book or even do a jigsaw puzzle. The tapering has been difficult but slowly and surely I am getting there. I am now able to drive, read, do puzzles, hike, spend time with friends, and even travel. 

 

My last cut to 3.3 was interesting. I had the usual insomnia, anxiety, and ongoing side effects of globus sensation (getting much better), tinnitus, and dry mouth. But the palpitations have for the most part disappeared and the sedation has gotten much better. This drop involved some bad joint pain in my ankles and left hip during the second week. I have ankle problems anyway, but they seemed much worse that week. They are better now and the hip pain left by the third week. The big unwelcome surprise was bad constipation during the fourth week. On every other drop I've had diarrhea so this was a big change. I have never in my life had problems with constipation. It was very uncomfortable. I ended up taking some Colace and drinking a cup of Senna tea one night which helped. I have upped my consumption of fiber, am drinking more water, and adding the prebiotic, inulin, to my decaf coffee. I've also learned to do abdominal massage to help things along. These have all helped.

 

However, there has been a most welcome change too. For the past 9 nights I have slept better than at any time since I started on Mirtazapine. I sure hope the next drop doesn't disrupt that, at least not for too long. It also, makes me feel like my pace is ok.

 

I feel like my body is undergoing constant upheaval with every drop and I have to figure out all over again what it needs. It can be exhausting at  times! I have been doing a guided meditation each night on the Calm app and really enjoy that. Also, I fall asleep listening to a yoga Nidra. I like the ones by Melissa West on YouTube. 

 

Dropping to 3.1mg tonight. 

[Mimi65]

Much luck with that new drop my friend.

[Gigi68]

Thanks Mimi! How are you doing?

[Mimi65]

I’m doing ok.  I feel the same as you, better with each reduction but just so tired of the whole withdrawal thing.  At this point right now I think fatigue is the difficult thing I’m dealing with, however changes day to day and tomorrow could be something else.  My dose cut to 1.5 was a very nasty one, stayed at that dose for 3 weeks and then decided to cut a little bit more.  I am now a week into a dose of 1.2 and so far, thankfully, this cut has not been as severe.  Seems like you never know what the next reduction will throw at you.  Hope you’re enjoying your time in AZ, I would love to be somewhere warm.  Husband and I are actually at his brothers place at the beach, it’s pretty cold but I’m still enjoying the change of pace.  Good luck again with that 3.1 dose, you’ve come a long way.

[Mimi65]

How’s that last cut going?

[Gigi68]

Today is Day 4. I'm doing ok so far. Went out for a nice mountain bike ride in the desert with a friend today. That always makes me feel better. Still sleeping well which I really appreciate. 

[Mimi65]

Hi Gigi,

how are things going?

[Gigi68]

Hi @Mimi65, things are going ok. I’ve been at 3.1mg for 30 days and have been stable for awhile. My daughters are here for a visit and I didn’t want to drop while they are here. It’s been a wonderful visit and has helped take my mind off the taper. I will drop to 2.9mg tonight. So excited to be down to the 2’s! How are you feeling at .6? Hope you are doing ok. Are you going to taper further? At what point do you think you’ll jump?

[Mimi65]

I’m glad you’re doing ok.  So nice, a visit from your daughters, you’re so right those distractions are so nice from tapering.  Wishing you luck with your next drop tonight.  I actually dropped to .5 2 nights ago but will hang at that dose for a few weeks since hubby and I are going to myrtle beach for 2 weeks.  We are going the 19th so I hoping that things will stabilize by then and I’ll wait til we get back to do another drop.  I don’t know when to jump but I have been dry cutting all the way down and now those cuts are getting pretty tough to handle and weigh.  The .5 dose is a tiny little speck of a pill.  Guess I’ll see how I feel when we get back and maybe figure it out then.  Do you think .5 is still too big of a dose to jump from?

[Gigi68]

Have a wonderful trip to Myrtle Beach. I have never been there. I don't know what a good dose is to jump off. From what I've read on here and in other places .5 would be at the high end. Some say to taper down as far as possible. I read something yesterday to taper until you no longer feel the drops. I'm not sure that's even possible! At any rate, you have done so well to get down so low. Hope you get some stability soon and really enjoy your trip!

[Gigi68]

Just want to do an update. I have been at 2.7mg for 18 days and it’s going well. There have been some off and on insomnia issues  but nothing like I had when on 7.5mg or the beginning of my taper. Constipation has improved with the use of magnesium citrate. Tinnitus is ongoing but I’m used to it so it doesn’t usually bother me. Palpitations returned awhile back but seem to be settling down again. I’m having some joint pain in knees and ankles and don’t know if it’s mirt or my age (70). I had a few weeks of bad nausea and even one episode of vomiting a month ago but haven’t had that on this drop. 

I used to wake up with horrible anxiety that would ease up later in the morning but come on again at random times. I have had no anxiety or any other mental issues since early January. What a relief! All of my problems now are physical. While I don’t like them, they are so much better than dealing with depression, anxiety, agitation and dark thoughts. 
 

Last month I took a class that has been very valuable to me. It was called Tension and Trauma Releasing Exercises. It is easy to do but looks odd if you aren’t aware of the philosophy. It is often used on soldiers with PTSD. Anyone going through AD withdrawals is certainly a candidate. Information can be found on the internet. There are about 500 teachers in the US but I think anyone could figure it out from watching videos on YouTube. 
 

Otherwise I’m enjoying life with lots of mountain biking, hiking, cards, time with friends, watercolor painting, reading and working on a new quilt. I’m going to Mexico for a few days next week. Looking forward to some beach time!

 

 

[Bestill]

@Gigi68 glad things are going well for you and feeling better.  You are getting there!  Enjoy the beach!

[Gigi68]

Thanks @Bestill. How are you feeling? Are you over the cold?

 

[Bestill]

@Gigi68The cold is pretty much gone.  Just the residual stuff that still hangs on for dear life.  I was still able to cut a little last week.

 

things are going well.  I am able to do a lot more than I was back in January. I still feel it more by the end of the day but to look back to see where I was in August.  It’s like night and day.  Just gotta keep going.  I hear such good things from everyone as you get lower and lower and this excites me and I’m able to stay positive and keep going. 
 

Thanks for asking.  ❤️
 

bestill

[Mirtazapain]

On 3/27/2022 at 7:08 PM, Gigi68 said:

Last month I took a class that has been very valuable to me. It was called Tension and Trauma Releasing Exercises.

Gigi68, 

I just read through your introduction posts and I must say you are an inspiration to me. You've been methodically and mindfully working through your taper with such courage and resolve. I am just at the beginning of tapering off 7.5 (currently at 6.75 mg and holding for an extra month). 

 

Your post about TRE caught my eye. I incorporated TRE into my own healing journey when I was actively recovering from PTSD.

 

I am a 56 year old yoga and iRest Yoga Nidra (meditation) teacher from Canada. My focus has always been on the use of these as adjunct modalities for helping with things like anxiety, depression, and trauma. My own meditation practice is what has saved me during my most recent and traumatic cut to 6.75 mg.

 

(Long story short, but I seem to have inadvertently given myself serotonin syndrome by taking low dose trazodone + mirtazapine. If not for the sharp eyes of @Altostrata, I never would have figured this out. Back on track now, hopefully.)

 

I hope you are doing well. I see you, all those many tapers down from 7.5, and it gives me hope.

 

Kind regards 💜

[Gigi68]

@MirtazapainI'm glad my journey gives you hope. There are so many people who have given me hope along the way. It really helps to know we are not alone!

 

I'm so sorry that trazodone and mirtazapine have given you so much trouble. When I first went on mirtazapine, I was already on buspirone and my psychiatrist also prescribed trazodone. I only took it a few times and it really didn't help with sleep. I'm so glad I didn't take it any longer than I did. When I got the prescription I asked the dr. about serotonin syndrome and she poo-pooed the idea. Then when I picked it up I asked the pharmacist about it. He also said it wouldn't be an issue. They really just don't have any idea, do they?

 

I hope you feel better soon. It's a long journey but I'm convinced that patience is the name of the game and I agree that trying different modalities is a good way to go. I had never done meditation until a few months ago. It's been great! I dropped to 2.5mg last night and so far, no problems. I don't want to jinx myself but since I got to 3.1mg, I have felt so much better. I just went on a short trip to a Mexican beach resort with my husband and two other couples. I could not have done that a year ago. 

 

If I can help you in any way, please let me know. I've kept a journal and a list of symptoms since the beginning.