Fallensoul: introducing my story, a fallen soul, when happiness turns into horror

[Fallensoul]

If it's the benzo's, I  should had have this way earlier, the same counts for Mirt, which I even have used in the day in the past on higher doses.(before the Clomipramine)

 

I suspect the paroxetine,  which is also stimulating, dropping so low, it looses it's effect mostly now. (And offcourse the effect of the downers/brakes will be more noticable).

 

But I will reduce the supplements and micro taper the benzo's, ie 5%/month, to be sure.

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

And another thing to consider is your use of L-Tyrosine. It has an effect on your thyroid, which in turn may cause fatigue.

 

Other than that I really hope that you'll start feeling better when tapering off of some of the benzos. It must be confusing that all these psych meds are having such an effect on you and you can't really distinguish which is doing what...

 

I'm doing quite well. I'm relatively stable tapering off of Paxil. I'm happy with that. Hopefully you'll have a nice weekend without too much problems!

[Fallensoul]

30 minutes ago, PerAsperaAdAstra said:

And another thing to consider is your use of L-Tyrosine. It has an effect on your thyroid, which in turn may cause fatigue.

 

Other than that I really hope that you'll start feeling better when tapering off of some of the benzos. It must be confusing that all these psych meds are having such an effect on you and you can't really distinguish which is doing what...

 

I'm doing quite well. I'm relatively stable tapering off of Paxil. I'm happy with that. Hopefully you'll have a nice weekend without too much problems!

Well it's a dopamine precursor, which have a connection with other neurotransmitters, but I have cut the dose of supplements into half and reduce the benzo's with 10% I seemed less tired during the day, so hopefully this is not an incident. Thanks for the tip!

 

I still had a rough start today though, after wakeup I was still mental tired, couldn't cope with daily impulses right away and had to lie down for an hour.

After this I stand up and try to do daily routines, got some coffee and smoke which was to early on the day and I got panicly and restless/nervous right after it, which lasted 2 hours.
After that I got better and now I'm just agitated and jumpy, but not have a low mood, which is the most important for me. After dinner I could enjoy a smoke and some coffee without getting havok in the CNS again.

Yes, the medscocktail is a pain in the ass, the more because the effects of changing something often comes with a dalyed response. What these meds do is beyond imagination and is impossible to explain to somebody who haven't deal with it.

Good to hear you havn't much problems with tapering. My Paxil pooped out, so I felt terrible all the time, until now, because I got flurries of normal self awarness and feel less disconneted and have some drive later in the day, but its far from stable and normal yet. 
I hope you keep on track and stable the coming time

[Fallensoul]

The last two days where unpleasant, having lowered the benzo's with 10% and the supplements to 50% did not solved the daily tiredness yet. And After I take the Mirt and Clomipramine later in the evening, even hours later I'm still awake and fairly clear. Its has to be the Paroxetine which was very stimulated for me, which is more and more falling away during the taper causing tiredness, but not normal tiredness, it's also mental tiredness, lack positive energy etc. Maybe the Clomipramine is also not good for me. When I was on 40-50mg I was panicly and restless all day, now at 26mg, and tonight at 25mg made me much calmer, although the taper was probably to fast from 40 to 28mg in two weeks, took 40-50mg at least two months), 1,5 week ago reached 28mg, (but I felt so restless I went allmost crazy) now slowly to 25 mg and stay there for a while, while tapering paroxetine and benzo's further down.

 

If wish If mood and energy would improve a bit, but these showing not much movement yet . Also selfawareness is still strange, a bit disconneted, fairly empty thoughts, lack of motivation, joy etc bah. 😒
When walking with the dog in the park, the only thing that forced to stay on my mind is the miserable state I am, and I am really a nature lover...

[Fallensoul]

Its unbelievable how much faces wd have, after a night without sleep I felt a sleep in the early morning and wakeup at the beginning of the afternoon, totally braindead, zero motivation, wanting to get off reality asap again (not suiicidal), awfull. I eat something and feli asleep on the couch till 16u, then I could handle the world and reality a bit better....but far from great.

Intusive thoughts about breathing OCD seems to subseed a bit. Never had so much aversion against live/consiousness

 

Its my heart still beating, but for the rest I feel more dead then alive. I have absolutely zero mental energy/drive.

 

 

   

[Fallensoul]

Have had a not so bad day today, still tired even after a long sleep, after wakeup, but after an hour it got better. Would range this day a 6-, in the evening lurking anxity and that nasty dark feeling trying to creep back in when doing a smoke though. It sucks all the positive feeling back....

[Fallensoul]

Btw, should I be able to taper the paroxetine faster then 10% now I also have the Clomipramine 25mg along with it? I'm on 5,6mg Paroxetine now. 
Are there people who crosstapered and wean the old drug faster then 10%? I really want to quit this, but I'm not stupid, if it can't be done without the risk of severe issues. I won't.
 

[Fallensoul]

The braindead and fatique today where of the roof after wakeup today, after a few hours I slowly be able function. Depression, anxity and panic (racing restless head) seem to subside a litle again.
I read Rosetta's story and it gave me so much strenth to deal with these meds once and for all, she nailed the essence so clear...This stuff, AD's, are so dangarous it should only be discribed in severe cases where no alternatives are sufficient.
 

[DaBro]

Feeling for you. Stay strong.

 

I truly believe the mental fatigue is due to healing. I am sure when you get a window you will feel more like the old you. It’s a miserable journey but every day is 1 day closer to recovery. 

[Fallensoul]

^ Thank you, it would be hope if that's the case! .nd stay strong too if needed, because it seems you are succesfully off the poison for a while, congrats

[DaBro]

Yes. I have 2 or 3 bad days a month now, but I remember weeks and months of insomnia, zero energy, sweating, mental torment etc with just a day or two of feeling OK each month. It will happen for you. 

[Fallensoul]

That sounds great, I certainly could live with that for a start.

 

I hope so, every time now the first part of the day is just liveless, arroud 16u I clime out  the missery bit by bit, and find motivation to do something lately. (but it was much worse before with panic, anxity and restnessless, so that part is better)

 

I still wonder if its paxil withdrawal or clomipramine withdrawal or clomipramine adverse reaction.

I tapered the Clomipramine also quite fast to 25 coming from 50, and feel much better. Do I need the Clomipramine at all do I wonder, or is it just paxil withdrawal fading, and ethe Clomopramine working good on just a low dose. I'm full of questions....

 

You did quite a fast taper btw.

 

I also wonder if I could taper the paxil fast now I am on a low dose Clomipramine. Alto?

 

 

[Fallensoul]

Today again more exhausted, just after my weekly 2% paroxetine taper, zero energy, totally passed out. So it has to be the damn paroxetine tapering, feeling more dead then alive.

[Fallensoul]

withdrawal is so strange, it's not bad mood anymore, but so difficult to start after wakeup, tired in a way that feels you can't tolerate any incentives, nerves overloaded ect.

I sleep 10 hours a day and have 3 hours needed before I function a little. Pain and weak backmucsles, jumpy from noises ect.

 

At last bad mood and anxiety is mostly gone, just some slight breathing ocd fear.

 

I really don't know long this is going to keep this way. If it stays 4 months, I'm gooing to loose my job and house 😧

 

[Fallensoul]

After a smoke immediatly nervousness, things falling out of my hands, very unrelaxed, but mood seems a bit better every day, now the calmness have to come, but i really feel the goodness coming closer and closer, allmost windowworthy.

 

 

[Fallensoul]

Feeling the double taper (benzo's and paxil) now in my nerves, first tired, muscle pain, then jumpy, allmost panicly, tensed etc.,  but mood stays mostly good, that's priceless, no more sadness and motivation is a tiny bit better every day (knock on the wood).

 

Breathing OCD is my biggest fear, and that's also managable atm, but keeps unpredictable.

 

Paxil goes to 5,5 mg end of this week. I'm using a razorblade and microscale, precise at 0,01mg, to cut the pills.

[Fallensoul]

Besides the mornings, which are still one part apart, the second halve of the days seem to be more and more tolerable. (it seems I don't feel much difference tapering the paroxetine, Clomipramine should have take over things finally or are the adverse effects less due dose lowering, because on 50mg it made me restless, anxious, nervous and depressed and didn't help at all)?

 Now on to reach stabilisation and get functional and then micro tapering the Clomipramine.
I pray I'm recovered on time to rescue my job.

[Fallensoul]

I really wonder if the Clomipramine is making me still feeling worse then without it, because I did so bad on it on higher dose......Alto or somebody else what do you think?
 

I never got AD's for low mood, depression or anxiety either, that's stil a result of suddenly pooped out paxil..
Something medcare never admits, due bigpharma.

[Fallensoul]

I know this site is very busy with all those new members, but I hope to get some anwers, if possible ofcourse, at a few questions that are keeping me very busy.

 

My paxil is probably more or less pooped out, it felt allmost like cold turky when it did, while I was still on the 20mg dose.(upping dose to 30 was even worse).

 

1)Can I taper the paxil faster then 10%, due this poop out and the fact that I'm on 23,5mg Clomipramine?

2)Does this "take it" over after a longer time due crossing from another AD?

3)I'm also wondering; does the Clomipramine works/benefit me at all, because I felt bad at higher dose, 50mg, and

   now I have tapered it to 23,5mg, I feel a lot better,  but, that could also mean two things: 

4)I only need/tolerate a small dose, maybe due hypersensative CNS due Paxil suddenly stopped working;

5)I feel better due decreased paxil withdrawal symthoms, because withdrawal of a pooped out AD follows a 

   different path/timeline of sympthoms in stead of the usual path where at the end, the lower doses are the most     

   potent, ie difficult to taper? 

   In this case I wonder, do I need the Clomipramine at al?

 

Thanks in advance.

[ChessieCat]

I suggest you check out Brassmonkey's personal topics.  He experienced Paxil poop out but continued to taper slowly and carefully and managed to remain working until retiring a few years ago.  He actually tapered by less than 10% per month, tailoring a taper method which has become known as the Brassmonkey slide.

 

The link to his original Introduction topic is at the topic of Post #1 of his Success Story:

 

tao-of-the-brassmonkey

 

Brass Monkey Slide

 

Here are some posts that he has made about poop out:

 

Tachyphylaxis, Reaching Tolerance or as It's Lovingly Known “Poop-Out”

 

and:

 

and:

 

 

[Fallensoul]

Thanks Chessie! It sure was frustrating, but it seems very slowly getting better.

Will read it right away!

[Fallensoul]

Today after a very deep sleep, thank  god for this stll happening, again total braindead and exhausted/no energy and drive in mind and body.

I don't know whats happening when l sleep, but I need hours to get a bit clear and functional. Body feels like hit by a train..probably due dose lowering from Paroxetine, Clomipramine and lorazepam a few days ago.

I want the clomipramine to drop to 20mg and the taper further the paroxetine and benzo's, and see how I be when keeping the clomipramine a while at 20mg, taper very, very slowy along with the rest, depending how I feel.

 

More people having so much trouble just after wakeup?

 

I know I taper many things at once, but my mood and  anxiety/panice is better now I get more and ride off these poisons. Clomipramine made me restless, panicly and emotional very unstable. Ocd was high during this higher dose.

[Fallensoul]

 

Quote

 

1)Can I taper the paxil faster then 10%, due the fact that I'm on 23,5mg Clomipramine?

2)Does this "take it"over after a longer time due crossing from another AD?

3)I'm also wondering; does the Clomipramine works/benefit me at all, because I felt bad at higher dose, 50mg, and

   now I have tapered it to 23,5mg, I feel a lot better,  but, that could also mean two things: 

4)I only need/tolerate a small dose, maybe due hypersensative CNS due Paxil suddenly stopped working;

5)I feel better due decreased paxil withdrawal symthoms, because withdrawal of a pooped out AD follows a 

   different path/timeline of sympthoms in stead of the usual path where at the end, the lower doses are the most     

   potent, ie difficult to taper? 

   In this case I wonder, do I need the Clomipramine at al?

 

Thanks in advance.

Someone have an idea or experience about these questions?

 

Today fatique through the whole day. Missing now allmost 3 years of my life, thanks GlaxoSmithKline, but I will deal with them later.

[almuPA]

Hello @Fallensoul,

I am not a mod, so please take my words with caution. As someone Who couldturkeyed, I would not suggest you to rush your tapering. I know you want the drug out if your system, but for what I know, you can save yourself years of suffering if you taper slowly. 

ABout the fatigue, I feel you, thats been my main symptom. You feel so exhausted physically and mentally that just lying on the bed is an effort. It is a normal WD symptom, as hard as It is. 

Hang in there,

Almu.

 

[Fallensoul]

/\ thanks Almu, and alltough it's tough to swallow this poison time after time, I will keep my tapering into accont, and do it slowly.

 

Did the fatique lessen in your case?

[Fallensoul]

Mornings are still bad, tired, exhausted mucsles, no mental energy, nervous, disconnected for a while. Nervous system feels overloaded, can do anything for a while, impulses from surroundings are to much for me for serveral hours after wakeup.

 

I'm now splitting the 5,4 mg Paroxetine dose into a morning and evening dose to keep a more constant serumlevel due the short half life.

@brassmonkey did you do this too when coming down at a low dose?

 

[almuPA]

Hello @Fallensoul,

My fatigue is better now, but not completetly gone. It's been my main symptom since WD started 9 months ago.

Hang in there!

[brassmonkey]

No, I never split my dose. I did a straight 10% Brassmonkey Slide down to 4mgpw. From there I divided things visually as best I could the rest of the way down. I was also pretty hap hazard about the timing of my dose. I would take it first thing after getting up, which was different almost every day.

[Fallensoul]

@almuPAThat sounds good. Today the fatique was exchanged for akathisia because I was so stupid to smoke to early, it brings havok to my brain immediatly when I smoke to early. 
It seems I have akathisia or fatique and they linked with eachother I think, ie akathisia causing the fatique as akathisia is simpley overactive CNS through tapering drugs.

@brassmonkeyNever had problems with interdose withdrawals ? I'm afraid for to low bloodlevels at the and of the daily intake cycle with these low doses, but that's just a theory/guess.  

 

 

[Fallensoul]

Today the first time I allmost wanted to wakeup and face the day!

And after an hour I wanted face the day.

Stll exaggerated, hypersensative, due stressed cns, but increasing mood and no anxiety.

This makes me so exited that I stress myself again, broke a plate while nervously eating,  check breathing, to be sure that this also dondn't panic me anymore.

This hypersensative state is also not pleasant, but mood is king, so I can deal with this.

Dp and dr is better too.

 

A little bit more energy and will pumping iron again after allmost 3 years of missery.

But I know I still have a long way to go for complete recovery though.

 

[Fallensoul]

I thought I treat today like a normal day and started doing intensive tasks on the pc, installing new hardware, take a coffee or 2 with a smoke. Well that didn't last long, mentally and physically tired after 1 hour...back on the couch it is.

Cns is stressed so easy and tiredness follows it's trail.

Damn, I wish I could speedup the rewirering.

Tomorrow paroxetine goes to 5,3mg

 Dose splitting did not make any difference yet.

 

 

[Myles]

Coming from a Lexapro and mirtazapine background and withdrawal from both.

 

Mirt is an anti depressant first and foremost,

a very strong one it works similar to tricyclic antidepressants, It's also an extremely extremely powerful sedative, the lower the dose the more sedating it is, I felt tranquilized at 15mg, the most common complaint on a mirt withdrawal support group I'm in is the extreme sedation when tapering, members on their frequently report of sleeping 15 hours or more and waking up still sedated and debilitated with fatigue...

which gets worse with the lower the dose, most members can't tolerate anything under 5mg.

 

The higher doses 30mg+ is when it starts working as an antidepressant.

 

It's also an extremely strong anti histamine, that's how it works as a sedative, so many people coming off mirt deal with histamine intolerance and issues for years after, people who have never had allergies or intolerances to food.

 

It also hits just about every receptor we have, adrenal, histamine, pain, serotonin etc etc.

 

Conclusion = Low dose doctors prescribe it off label for insomnia, higher dose anti depressant. 

[Fallensoul]

I'm allready a year on a low dose for, after a failed attempt to cross over from the paroxetine. 

 

It was indeed quit hard to taper back to 2.5 coming from 15mg.

 

I also have an idea that I may have daytime restlessness/tension  as a rebound effect. (The body tries to compensate, so when the small dose is depleted on the day, the nervous system is too alert/active.)

So I will taper it extremely slowly down too along the rest.

[Anahita1141]

On 3/17/2021 at 9:05 PM, ChessieCat said:

Please do a drug interaction check and copy and paste the results or a link to the results here in your Introduction topic:

 

Drug.com Interactions Checker
 

This is another interaction checker which might provide some more specific information.  You cannot paste a link to the results like the other checker.

 

Medscape Drug Interaction Checker

Thanks for sharing this website

[Fallensoul]

Sympthoms shifting again, now very tensed,  startled by noises, hypersensative by everything, at the end I get exhausted by this wrecked nervous system.

 

 

[Fallensoul]

Now after wakeup more motivation and better mood, but after a few hours of living again, very tired mentally and physically.
Still sleeping 10+ hours a day. I think tiredness is simply the CNS getting to much inpulses from the disrupted brain.
Mirt goes to 2,4 mg now.

I had a short window when driving in my car, it felt better then anything I've ever felt, my post AD live wil so much diferent, I will enjoy every little thing. Coming out of this hell, will change you for ever.