Fallensoul: introducing my story, a fallen soul, when happiness turns into horror

[Fallensoul]

Today extremely stressed, nervous and much tension. Time to take a brake in tapering and let the body adjust for 1 or 2 weeks. Awfull, every sound is to much

[Erell]

Sorry to hear about your issues : when I find that sounds are too much, I often like to spend some time in a dark room.

Might sound silly as it's about light, but I find that it helps with overstimulation.

This and taking deep belly breath and visualising myself healed, happy, at peace 🙃

 

Take care 

[Fallensoul]

^ Thanks, well I have to much motivation to retrieve in a dark room ;), and the weather was also very nice today here in Holland, so took some natural vit D.
I aslo have breathing OCD, so avoid breathing techniques when I'm in this state.

Sometimes I have a feeling the time arrived to break free from this, but it just not happened yet, I still have to much disruption in my mind/CNS to get functioning again, and I also want to work badly, but I cann't, the stress is still to big.  Well at least anxity and depression hass lessend in fact are mostly gone, but the CNS is still chaos with lots of restlessness, nervous etc. You probably know it to well too.

Stay strong too and hopefully you wil notice improvements soon. 

[Erell]

Oh I'm so glad to read that anxiety and depression are giving you a break, and that you managed to enjoy the sun today, Spring is definitely coming ☀️

 

About breathing OCD, I understand  : during my benzo taper I had a lot of anxious thoughts about my breath, and relaxation techniques/focusing on my breath was stressfull.

But guess what ? It disappeared after my Prazepam taper and now I can focus on my breath.

Things do change ❤

 

Take care 

[Fallensoul]

Correct, when I'm in a window it doesn't border me at all. It's only when I'm uping/tapering or changing AD's this comes up. Its all drug induced.
Good to hear it's gone, its the last really tough mental issue I still face today and I'm wondering if I gonna take therapy for it. I think it won't help and isn't neccesary when eventually out of WD.

[Fallensoul]

After the extreme tension and stress, now exhausted again mentally and physically, totally empty...

It seems a pattern after every taper cycle.

Do I taper to fast?

 

I taper paroxetine at 2%/week, benzo at 10%/month, clomipramine on hold for now, or extreme slowly to 20 and stay there for a while.

Mirt with 2-5%/month.

[Fallensoul]

In the evening fading fatique and brainfog and tempory some anxiety and breathing ocd in exchange (bad deal )
It seems I won't have to worry about missing the crazy symptoms this week.
 

[Estman]

On 4/22/2021 at 7:42 PM, Fallensoul said:

After the extreme tension and stress, now exhausted again mentally and physically, totally empty...

It seems a pattern after every taper cycle.

Do I taper to fast?

 

I taper paroxetine at 2%/week, benzo at 10%/month, clomipramine on hold for now, or extreme slowly to 20 and stay there for a while.

Mirt with 2-5%/month.

I'm just as tired and sleep most of the time
32 days (8%) have elapsed since the last reduction in clomipramine
Unfortunately, I had a stomach virus 17 days ago
There was extreme malaise and vomiting
Since then, there has been great weakness and constant fatigue
Like you .I tired very quickly
I am very tired when waking up at night and also when waking up in the morning
Currently, do not rest at night, in addition, the whole body is like painful
There is also a fast pulse and it sometimes interferes with falling asleep

[Fallensoul]

Well with me the last days tiredness is now more exchanged with extreme tension/ stress etc.
 I can't get any rest in my head and body and also constant thinking about this situation, because feeling like this takes away thinking about normal things, doing normal things, its very tough. I can't control myself to get calm, getting allmost crazy from it

My CNS becomes very easely severely overstimulated.

Mood finally became more normal, but now I get this...disabled again.

At the end of the day I'm exhaused from all the stress and tension...Awfull day's atm...

[Fallensoul]

Also intrussive thoughts about breathing again, takes away everything arroud me. Living in my own insanty bubble atm. 

 

I thought the worsed had passed...

[Rosetta]

Hi.  Your taper — multiple tapers at once — that looks very odd to me.  I really doubt the Mods think this is what is best for you.  ??? You are tapering 4 or 5 drugs at once?  Overall, the total amount is more than 10 % per month.  And these drugs work against each other.  
 

Normally, I see someone taper one drug at a time unless there is a serious problem.  Maybe the dangerous interaction is that?  Could be.  Even so I’m thinking you may need to re-evaluate.
 

Sometimes, a person will taper one drug for a while, then hold a bit and taper another for a while, but more than 2 or 3 in the same month?  I’m raising the alarm here.  I’m not saying I know what you should do differently, but this looks wrong to me, in my humble opinion.  You seem to be miserable, too.
 

You never drive a car, right?  I hope you don’t have to because, well, your CNS is really compromised.  Maybe you should stop tapering everything but one benzo and leave the rest alone?  I’m wondering if that is what Alto meant when she suggested tapering the benzo.  I could be wrong, but I’m not sure the Mods expected you to taper more than one drug at a time.  Three at a time?  I’m doubtful.
 

Hope you feel better soon.

 

Rosetta

[Fallensoul]

Hi Rosetta,

 

You're right I have tapered too may drugs at once, but I became so sick (adverse effects) from the 50mg dose clomipramine, I needed to bring that down, and It made me indeed a lot better in mood and anxiety when coming at a lower dose.

My plan is to stay at 22, or 20mg clomipramine and taper the paroxetine and benzo's first.

The paroxetine is pooped out and I became also very bad when continueing taking 20 mg.

 

I also dropped the mirt for sleep a bit, but that is also on hold now, its too much at once I realise.

 

I plan to hold the paroxetine taper for an extra week or two and see if things are getting better.

I try to taper the benzo's along with the paroxetine if possible, but at a really slow rate like 10% in 6 weeks.
 

It's unbelievable how symtoms dissapear allmost completely once I take my 2.4 mg mirt at night.
It's a clear sign of a overstimulated/destabelised CNS?

 

 

[Rosetta]

It’s very hard to tell which symptoms are caused by the destabilization of the nervous system and which are caused by an AD dose.  You need many days of diaries to see if a dose is causing your problems or if you are having random changes in your symptoms.  Generally, the person who is suffering can’t see the patterns himself.  
 

Why don’t you post daily symptom logs before you change the paroxetine dose again? You are making so many changes so fast that it’s a recipe for disaster.  Those drops in drug concentration tend to catch up with people after several weeks or months and then the person crashes.  Coming back from that can take months.  
 

You should be posting the times you take these drugs and the way you feel after each dose.  If you are asleep in between those doses, say so in your notes.
 

It’s easy to let worry and fear override our better judgement.  You aren’t getting the advice you need from people outside the situation because you are creating a lot of chaos in your system.  I’m not sure a Mod could tell what’s what from only a few days of logs at this point.  You would be better off if you stop tapering, let your system calm down, and meanwhile post logs everyday.

Maybe a Mod would say to keep tapering one of the benzos because you have so many breaks at once.  I don’t know, but I feel very suspicious that you would feel better if you taper just one benzo and stop changing your other drug doses.

 

Its good that the mirt lets you sleep.  That is very good.  Sleep is so important.

[Fallensoul]

I am afraid if I taper the benzo's first, it will be much tougher to taper the AD's. I rather be a bit sedated then restless/nervous or anxious in my tapering proces.
And the last few days I'm far from sedated.

But I agree, it was to much at once, and will hold that and take a break in tapering,  to see if things calm down.

[Rosetta]

That may be so at this time.  However, lorazepam is a benzo - sedating.  Lormetazapam (never heard of it, myself) is a benzo — sedating.  Clomipramine is an SSRI (never heard of it), and it can be sedating, and mirtazipine appears to be sedating for you.  Paroxetine (Paxil) is an SSRI, and although anti-depressants are considered activating, generally, a side effect of paroxetine is drowsiness.  That doesn’t sound like a safe cocktail to me.
 

Lorazepam at .45 mg can be, more or less, the equivalent of 2 to 3 mg of Valium.  For some people it could be as low as 1 mg of Valium in equivalence, BUT if your liver is trying to process all those other drugs, you might have an effect from Lorazepam that is equal to up to 4.5 mg of Valium or more.  That’s quite a bit of Valium if I’m not mistaken.  Different people have different effects from benzos, and some benzos have a more pronounced sedating effect on certain people.  The other benzo — I don’t know what it’s Valium equivalent might be, but you take .45 mg of that, too.  You might be on the equivalent of 10 mg of Valium for all you know.

 

After I was experiencing anxiety because of Zoloft WD, I was prescribed Xanax, and it knocked me out completely.  I don’t think my doctor intended that.  I think my very sensitive system reacted to the Xanax poorly, and it’s effect was exaggerated.  Do you see my point?
 

I understand that you are feeling very activated and upset right now, but it seems that Alto suggested you taper one of the benzos first for a good reason.  Your system is fighting back against all the brakes.  It’s producing more and more activating substances in reaction to the drugs.  I understand that it may be scary to take your foot off of one of the brakes even a little bit.  You could taper it by a very small amount to make it easier.  
 

You can’t, unfortunately, use your immediate reaction to a reduction in the benzo on one day or two days as an indication that your Paroxetine dose is too high.  It’s all very complicated how the body reacts to drugs.  Please consider posting some more logs.  It’s the only way anyone can help you.

[Fallensoul]

Thanks for response and thinking with me

 

Until a week ago I was improving every day, but after the last paroxetine drop I became very stressed. I guess I have to take a temporary break in tapering.

I also made the fault to smoke to early, I was nervous and couldn't wait after dinner, when I dont have any problems smoking.

 

Smoking has a disrupting effect on my nerves atm., and accellerate metabolisem, so I have lower serum value's, that could be a reason too.

 

As for the benzo's, I know the body tries to adapt and want to work to homeostasis, so it could be indeed reebound effects making me nervous. 

 

What I gonna do;

-stop smoking before dinner

-take a break in tapering;

-when things ease, resume benzo and paroxetine taper.

 

I really feel the paroxetine is working against me, this stuff needs to go.

I also have to follow a really slow rate for the benzo tapering.

 

Paroxetine was never sedating for me btw.

[Fallensoul]

Still mostly depression and anxiety free, but feeling stressed and agitated with a lot of "noise" in my head . Made another small drop with Mirt and Paroxetine.
If I get calm enough at the end of next week, the Lorazepam goes to 0,8 or 0,85 mg. Things are tolerable, but tough.

[Fallensoul]

Pff, the paroxetine drop to 5,28 (from 5,34) was origionally an accident, it broke just 1% onder the value I wanted and thought:  "what the hack 1% shouldn't make a difference", so holding that for 5 days now, but I couldn't be more wrong, increased nervousness, tension, almost panicly. Gooing to hold that now for some time to stabilise. Unbelieveable 1% is so noticeable....
Mirt is doing it's sleeping job also with 2,3 mg, so I hold that to for a while.

I'm think it would indeed a wise idea to concentrate on benzo's first, and let the paroxetine alone, or goiing on a micro taper if things are manageable over time.
It looks like nearing 5mg paroxetine gets very though. Made also the smoking error (smoking to early in the day make me nervous), it puts the CNS at extra stress. Lessons learned.  
 

[Fallensoul]

Some have experience with this?

Is medication effective at all when pooped out state is reached?

Esp. when everything is downregulated by a receptorwide drug as paroxetine?

 

Because I wonder if the Clomipramine is doing anything at all, because I still struggle with these issues....

 

[Fallensoul]

I hoped some would share some experiences about tapering paroxetine when reached low doses, ~5mg and if pooped out, is it easier or tougher when reaching that lower dose.
Second, if someone crossed over to TCA's and had relief with it? I really havn't, and wonder what the clomipramine's role in my current situation.

I am slowly getting getting better highs/windows, but still have lows/waves in the form of much tension/stress/being in flight or fight mode, so strong it disables me still, esp. after wakeup.
The improvement is very slow and far from linear, but that's normal afaik.
I also get much stress about loosing my job (and house) if not recovered on time (july). Unbelievable this poison could destroy me in al facettes

I also wonder why it's so bad after wakeup and feeling almost normal in the late evening.
Every day the whole story repeats it self after wakeup. I'm wondering, is it Mirt rebound effect?

[Fallensoul]

Dissapointing this thread ends up my monologue....

[Fallensoul]

Today suffering by unrelated heavy bodystress/tension. It disables me from functioning most of the day.

Nerves in chest are tight.

 

How can I relate this to a medicine is beyond me. Is it the last paroxetine drop? Rebound from benzo's or mirt? I can't taper the benzo's any further in this state.

 

Mental/Emotional is now not so much an issue anymore.

 

[Hanna72]

Hi @Fallensoul

On 5/5/2021 at 5:43 PM, Fallensoul said:

 

I hoped some would share some experiences about tapering paroxetine when reached low doses, ~5mg and if pooped out, is it easier or tougher when reaching that lower dose

 

The lower you get in dosage, the harder it is. Even if you have pooped out, I would still recommend a slow taper. 

 

On 5/5/2021 at 5:43 PM, Fallensoul said:

I also wonder why it's so bad after wakeup and feeling almost normal in the late evening.

Many people here have experienced this along with myself. I don’t really know why this happens, but many of us have adrenaline surges when we wake up. Might be cause our nervous system is very sensitive.

 

On 5/5/2021 at 5:43 PM, Fallensoul said:

Unbelievable this poison could destroy me in al facettes

NO it will not destroy us. There are so many success stories in here, and we will get there one day💪

You are down to 6 mg Paxil. That’s a huge accomplishment.

Focus on one step at a time, because in the end those steps will get you one by one to your end goal.

One day at a time, patience and faith and visualise your own victory 🙏

[Fallensoul]

Thank you Hanna!
Its seems the clomipramine doesn't do anything. I regret I took that one, which I also have to taper.
Today again extreme nervous in body and mind, gooing to lie down again for a while.
Keep strong for you too.

 

[Fallensoul]

And now tired for a chance.

Reaction to all the stress days I guess? Time for the next drop paroxetine?

[Fallensoul]

Symptoms are allmost physical only now. Feeling stressed/restless and jumping allmost 10 feet high in reaction to noises. Sometimes tired/unwel feeling due the stress.

 

I will give the tapering a break now.

In 4 weeks I have start working, or I lose my dreamjob. I will fight with all I have to keep it. Hopefully the break in tapering will improve things.

 

[Fallensoul]

Strange things happening here.

Feeling so stressed, allmost panic, I dont know where to sit, stay, lie etc. Also a flare up of breathing ocd.

On the other hand I feel new positive emotions, the smell of spring, the nature when walking with the dog.

It looks like reborn again, but its not a happy story yet, alltough I feel normality is close, but just out of reach yet.

The stress is killing me, the beathing ocd is constant playing tricks, awfull. 

[Fallensoul]

Stress is easing, I feel normalisch knocking on the door, but it's just such a thin line between panic and peace. This so crazy, I feel the goodness coming, but it's blocked by the thoughts of fear from getting panicly for the breathing ocd.

 

[Fallensoul]

Feeling terrible nervous and panicly after wakeup. I set cl. back on 22, and hold everything in hope things will ease. Feeling awfull atm.

[Erell]

20 hours ago, Fallensoul said:

Feeling terrible nervous and panicly after wakeup. I set cl. back on 22, and hold everything in hope things will ease. Feeling awfull atm.

I'm sorry and send you all my support ☀️

 

What do you think about only tapering one med at a time ?

I don't know but it might be easier on your system if only one thing is changed while the rest stay steady.

 

Hang on !

[Fallensoul]

Thank you Erell! Yes, I think I only continueing with the paroxetine taper when my nerves settled down.

 

I'm suffering restlessness/akathisia,  diarrhea and almost panicly/nervous.

My mood is not sad or low at least, but so noisy/uncalm, (maye I also need a step back, and go to 5,3mg?

 

I keep the clomipramine at 22mg for a long time, and maybe if I am calm enough, I drop I tiny bit of lorazepam again.

 

@Altostrata (or other mods) what is your opinion ?

I'm not tired anymore, just the opposite. I it now wise the focus on paroxetine which is pooped out and do the benzo's later?

[Fallensoul]

I mean a step back with the paroxetine taper and go to 5,3 mg.

The restlessness (also in my mind) is unbearable atm.

[Fallensoul]

@any mods giving some advice.

I'm feeling so stressed and panicly in the body mostly, getting pretty crazy from it.

[Hanna72]

Hi @Fallensoul

I would like to share something with you about anxiety and busy mind.

Its tempting to look at one’s own mind and identity so called imperfections as obstacles. But it is our approach and our perception that defines the experience and outcome of such things.

So when you experience for example anxiety, you might look at it and think, if only I can get rid of it then everything will be ok.

But the more we look at it, we see that actually the anxiety is not really the issue, but our perception of the anxiety. 
So if you can shift the perception a little bit and see that anxiety is nothing to be afraid of. We are not trying to change the anxiety, we are trying to change the way we experience it, changing our relationship with it.

 

This thinking is helping me, and along with deep breathing and holds after each breath.

So you might want to have this in mind when you start having anxiety and a busy mind.

Take care 🙏

 

 

 

[Fallensoul]

Thanks Hanna,

 

I will keep that mind, but I haven't real anxiety anymore.

 

My issues are more heading to extreme stress, restless, tensed, had even diarrhea and very unwell feeling in body and mind.

Cns should be disrupted completely.

@mods, please advice, should I do a step back with the paroxetine taper, so go back to 5,3 from 5,22?

[Altostrata]

What drugs are you taking now, at what dosages, and what times of day? Your signature is unclear about your current regimen.