Demi918: Lexapro taper

[Altostrata]

Before you change anything, we need to clarify further. What was the period you felt better? Do your ear symptoms change after you take escitalopram? Please include these details in your daily notes.

[Demi918]

@AltostrataTo day was a complete horror show. My Anxiety was back and I had Headache, concentrating issue, worst double vision and ear pressure. 

I am definitely under Wave window patter seems like.

Feel so horrible today. Felt at worst possible place. 

I took 1 mg Escitalopram at 8:pm (an hour ago) and felt 5% better but can't come out of bed. I am in bed since 3pm. 

[Demi918]

23 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Before you change anything, we need to clarify further. What was the period you felt better? Do your ear symptoms change after you take escitalopram? Please include these details in your daily notes

In last one week, I had two days where I felt bit better and was able to do other outside works. rest 3 days were bad I was able to pull through for most of the day. Last two days is horrible and feels like all symptoms of withdrawal I felted before reinstating 1 mg Escitalopram is back again and may be harder. which makes me feel that I am definitely still under withdrawal symptoms of wave and windows.

 

My tinnitus is same with increased pressure in right ear.

**update**I have an appointment with Chiropractor for my neck and back pain that is unbearable these days.   

[Altostrata]

What period in the day do you felt better? Do your ear symptoms change after you take escitalopram? Please include these details in your daily notes.

[Demi918]

HI @Altostrata,

I have attached my mood recorder through out the day. Last todays where horrible. I had headache this morning as well soon I woke up. But now I am having window of breath I guess as of 5 PM. symptoms are manageable with light dizziness and headache. I am going outside for a walk as I write this.

I am definitely in a wave and window pattern or having a side effect of escitalopram. have to figure this out.

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Do your ear symptoms change after you take escitalopram?

No. symptom remains same after taking escitalopram. they do not change. however my sleep pattern is better now.  I have been sleeping straight 8 hours without any interruption.

 

Added 900 mg fish oil to my supplement today.

 

Mood recorder.xlsx

[Altostrata]

I will need to see your daily symptom pattern in your daily notes, as requested. A record of mood changes will not be helpful.

 

Has your sleep improved since you went off escitalopram or was sleep disruption not part of your withdrawal syndrome?

[Demi918]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

I will need to see your daily symptom pattern in your daily notes, as requested. A record of mood changes will not be helpful.

@AltostrataSure, I will only record symptom and drug that i will take. so far, My few symptom have gone worst while others manageable.

 

Like Morning, Headache, Double vision, blurred vision, painful eye, Agitation, ear pressure, anxiety, body ache, tinnitus, confusion, and Neck and back pain.

Afternoon - Symptoms would stay same just my headache would get bearable as day progress. and my Eye and ear symptoms would get worst.

Evening - Mild Headache with increased in eye and ear pressure. my Agitation and anxiety would increase at this point (having some windows for last todays with anxiety).

Night- would normally take AD with similar symptoms as evening.

 

I am more worried about my eye symptoms lately. My vision would get so blurred and doubled as day progress. Past todays, at evening I thought that I would lose my vision. they are getting more dry. I am using eye drops for dry eye but seems to be ineffective.

 

Have anyone temporary or permanent lost vision due to AD?. I am so worried and paranoid. this increases my anxiety as well.

Eye symptoms are dry eye, blurred vision, double vision and sometimes difficult to concentrate on words or object. This started as part of the withdrawal and getting worst.

 

[Demi918]

Hi @Altostrata,

Today was worst of all. I had Vision issue through out day and I felt I was  dying. my vision get so blurred that I can get to see person standing in front of me clearly. just started this week. intense muscle pain and headache. cannot come out of bed. this is not me. should I start taking 5 mg escitalopram. I will start over and will be start tapering when I feel 100%. I cannot live like this. almost wanna give up.

[Demi918]

@Altostrata, I was wrong about Paroxetine. My GP wants me to start Fluoxetine as it is  easy to withdraw later and is with long half life. she wants me to start at 5 mg and taper as needed.

[Demi918]

My symptoms today are.

Morning, sever Headache, Double vision, blurred vision, painful eye, Agitation, ear pressure, anxiety, body ache, tinnitus, confusion, and Neck and back pain.

Afternoon - Symptoms would stay same just my headache would get bearable as day progress. and my Eye and ear symptoms would get worst.

Evening - sever Headache with increased in eye and ear pressure. my Agitation and anxiety would increase at this point anxious all day along.

I am losing all windows that I was getting this far. looks like I am in complete hell. No windows at all through out the day. 

[Yesyes123]

I hope this doesn't hit you the wrong way. 

 

At the tougher times, I would tell myself "Just don't kill yourself."

 

Anything else is fine... even idealizing death or thinking how great it would be to come out of this right now... As long as you don't act on it.

 

You can do anything else you want. Death is the one thing you can't reverse by any means.

 

Anything else, you can heal and overcome.

 

Once again, I'm sorry if this comes out the wrong way. Personally, this line of thinking is helpful to me. Just keep breathing, just keep waiting. That's all we can do sometimes

[Yesyes123]

I am praying for you.

[Demi918]

34 minutes ago, Yesyes123 said:

You can do anything else you want. Death is the one thing you can't reverse by any means.

I have a 3 year old son a reason not to do anything stupid as you mentioned but due to this condition I am living in a real hell situation.

But again, I will not. 
thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

[Demi918]

38 minutes ago, Yesyes123 said:

 

I am praying for you

 

Really appreciate this. I need this most during this difficult time.

hope your doing great! 
did reinstating Escitalopram helped you??

[Altostrata]

You have withdrawal syndrome. Please try to stay calm.

 

What time of day do you take escitalopram? Do you feel better or worse after you take it?

 

I will need to see your daily symptom pattern in your daily notes in the requested format. Read this

 

Please read my responses carefully and fully answer any questions, such as

 

On 4/13/2021 at 4:16 PM, Altostrata said:

Has your sleep improved since you went off escitalopram or was sleep disruption not part of your withdrawal syndrome?

 

[Yesyes123]

44 minutes ago, Demi918 said:

Really appreciate this. I need this most during this difficult time.

hope your doing great! 
did reinstating Escitalopram helped you??

 

Reinstatement definitely worked for me. I reinstated before finding SA though, and at a higher dosage - which is extremely dangerous and makes no sense. I was following what my (former) doctor was telling me.

 

The first month after reinstatement at 15mg was absolutely terrifying, suicidal - now I see I was more than likely kindled by the higher dosage. Month 2 some improvement. Month 3 and 4 noticeable improvement and then it only got better and better. (*This is all what I recall off the top of my head and not entirely precise but close enough. I am yet to properly update my signature)

 

I think one of the reasons I got so much better so fast is my young age and I also think fish oil and salmon were absolute life-savers. This might as well be because I really freakin' like it lol but I always felt better immediately after eating raw salmon. Also I get to sleep a lot if I can make my own hours, which seems to be crucial for nervous system healing.

 

I will update my signature and everything eventually. Still processing lots of things. 

 

@Demi918 you can ask me or say anything at all, I'll read it carefully asap. You will heal from this eventually, definitely.

[Demi918]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You have withdrawal syndrome. Please try to stay calm

I too feel I am under withdrawal symptoms.

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What time of day do you take escitalopram? Do you feel better or worse after you take it?

I take 1 mg Escitalopram at 8:pm in liquid form everyday.

I don’t feel worse or better. But would rather stays same.

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Has your sleep improved since you went off escitalopram or was sleep disruption not part of your withdrawal syndrome?

 My sleep is never compromised. After I stopped taking AD in March I would woke up twice at night but would go to sleep in about 15-30 min.

but After reinstating Escitalopram, I have full 8-9 hours sleep without any interruptions.

my symptoms for Today are,

 

8 a.m. Woke with anxiety and sever headache
8 :30 a.m. Took my supplements mentioned in signature.
9 a.m. at work, hard to look at computer.
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Came home and took Acetaminophen for headache went to bed straight.
7:30p.m. Felt better after 2 days. Came out off the bed and played with my son for a bit. It was relaxing. Also was anxiety free for a bit (1hour)

8:20 p.m. took dinner. And Escitalopram 1 mg with 2 tab of neurapas.
9:30 p.m. went bed just to relax and to respond to SA.

[Demi918]

1 hour ago, Yesyes123 said:

think one of the reasons I got so much better so fast is my young age and I also think fish oil and salmon were absolute life-savers

I do take fish oil. But I am vegetarian with no seafood at all.

 

1 hour ago, Yesyes123 said:

you can ask me or say anything at all, I'll read it carefully asap. You will heal from this eventually, definitely.

I too hope so. Thank you for your kind support. I did felt bit window of 2 hours after straight 3 days of hell. I came out of bed and was able to play with my kid for a while. 

[Altostrata]

On 4/11/2021 at 10:05 AM, Demi918 said:

So if I read you correctly, you want me to increase my dose to total of 1.5mg at night. and If that cost me my sleep than I would switch that to a morning dose correct?.

also, I feel like I am stabilizing very very slowly but still under that withdrawal symptoms. 

 

If you feel you are slowly stabilizing, it might be best to leave well enough alone and be patient.

 

If symptoms are not tolerable AND taking escitalopram is not increasing tinnitus or impeding your sleep, you might increase it slightly. We cannot predict what it will do though.

 

20 hours ago, Demi918 said:

2 tab of neurapas

 

What is this?

[Demi918]

19 hours ago, Altostrata said:

f symptoms are not tolerable AND taking escitalopram is not increasing tinnitus or impeding your sleep, you might increase it slightly. We cannot predict what it will do though.

@AltostrataI started 1.5mg as of yesterday. My whole day was horrible before I took 1.5 mg. Was under DP/DR and serious Anxiety all day. Vision is compromised too. I thought I would die or go blind. After 1.5mg Escitalopram. I felt no change. But this morning my anxiety is bit under control. I am still devastated. But today it feels like I will go through today as of now.

 

19 hours ago, Altostrata said:

On 4/15/2021 at 9:38 PM, Demi918 said:

2 tab of neurapas

 

What is this?

It is a combination of Passion flower, Valerian and St. John’s wort.

this is from website..

Psychiatric patients often suffer from stress, anxiety and depression. Various plant extracts are known to fight stress (valerian), anxiety (passion flower) or depression (St. John's wort)

[Altostrata]

St. John's Wort is an MAOI. I would not take this or any other supplement that's supposed to be antidepressant while you're trying to stabilize from withdrawal syndrome. Withdrawal syndrome is not "depression", it is nervous system destabilization.

 

Good to hear you're feeling a bit better. Please let us know how you're doing.

[Demi918]

22 hours ago, Altostrata said:

St. John's Wort is an MAOI. I would not take this

I have stopped taking this as you mentioned. Do I have to tapper it or can stop anytime?. I haven't had it yesterday.

I thought that Reinstating 1 mg Escitalopram is not helping and I am having new symptoms everyday. Yesterday after may be 3 weeks of suffering I was fine for a half day. I see light in my life first time. I was may be 5% fine but was happy and couldn't stop crying (Just one time. felt so emotional). I really like to that @Altostrataand other moderators and everyone here who gave me some strength to be strong.

 

I felt only 5% better. Long road to go but what I see is this is not permanent. I still have unbearable anxiety and racing thoughts. My vision issue is still there but this windows are getting bigger and I am loving it. still to early to say that I can manage my symptoms well but hopeful that it will be  fine may be weeks may be months may be years.

[Willfinish]

Hi Demi, do you think reinstatement is working ? Do you have anedhonia o dp/Dr ?

 

best luck

[Demi918]

2 hours ago, Willfinish said:

Hi Demi, do you think reinstatement is working ? Do you have anedhonia o dp/Dr ?

Hi @Willfinish, It is too early for me to say but so far in my 3 weeks journey I have seen hell worst to a light of hope. so for me, Yes. reinstatement work.

Yes, I do have Anhedonia and DP/DR. but not bad as I had in my initial days of withdrawal. I still feel worst and anxiety and all other symptoms. I am may be only 5% better but I do see light as I am getting windows everyday for few hours.

[Altostrata]

How long have you been taking St. John's Wort?

 

I cannot tell what's going on without those daily notes. When you say 5% better, what do you mean?

[Demi918]

51 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

How long have you been taking St. John's Wort?

 

It's been 4 months .

 

 

52 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

I cannot tell what's going on without those daily notes

12am. in deep sleep.

8 a.m. Woke with  mild anxiety and tolerable headache
8 :30 a.m. Took my supplements mentioned in signature.
9 a.m. Was just in a bed being lazy.
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch and anxiety and headache was very mild

1-4pm. was with family in family-room first time in last 1-2 months on weekend.
4 p.m. had tea and was chatting with family still no weird symptoms.

5pm. felt bit anxiety and DP/DR but was gone in about 30 min.
7:30p.m. Felt better for last 2 days. not in bed anymore around this time.

8:20 p.m. took dinner. And Escitalopram 1 mg. stop taking Neutrapas.

 

59 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

When you say 5% better, what do you mean

My main symptoms are still there but at manageable level. much better than I was 2 days back. still early  but will report my daily progress.

[Altostrata]

Overall, your symptoms appear to be mild and improving, which is what we expect from reinstatement.

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see

https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Magnesium can be surprisingly effective for headaches. You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

[Demi918]

@Altostrata, was hit by Insomnia hard. couldn't go to bed for about 3am. hardly had sleep for about 4-5 hours.

Do you think that this is because of stopping neurapas?. I have heard that it also has affect on eye (there are studies on it and available on pubmed.) Can Neurapas (valerian, passion flower or St. John's wort).

Can Neuraps have WD effect?. I have CT'ed it.

 

 

3am. after 3 hours of suffer fall a  sleep.

7:30 a.m. Woke with  mild anxiety and tolerable headache
8 :30 a.m. Took my supplements mentioned in signature.
9 a.m. went to work feel bit DP/DR.
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch and anxiety and headache was mild

1-4pm. working but anxious and nervous.
4 p.m. came home and felt all symptoms came back again.

5pm. felt bit anxiety and DP/DR. wanna go to bed but holding it till i can
7:30p.m. I feel like my eyes are sore and just wanna give up on me. headache is bit tolerable.

8:20 p.m. took dinner. And Escitalopram 1 mg. 

[Altostrata]

2 hours ago, Demi918 said:

Do you think that this is because of stopping neurapas?.

 

I don't know. Maybe.

 

Did you sleep for 4-5 hours?

 

You might want to try melatonin and these other sleep tips:

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing the morning cortisol spike

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

[Demi918]

12 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Did you sleep for 4-5 hours?

Yes, I only had 4-5 sleep. and today I had about 5-6 hours sleep as well.

 

1am.  fall a  sleep.

7:00 a.m. Woke with  mild anxiety and tolerable headache
8 :30 a.m. Took my supplements mentioned in signature.

9;15 am- went to ophthalmologist and said nothing wrong with my eye.
11 a.m. went to work feel more DP/DR.
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch and anxiety and headache is at rooftop.

1-4pm. working but anxious and nervous.
4 p.m. came home and felt all symptoms came back again.

5pm. felt anxiety and DP/DR. wanna go to bed but holding it till I can
7:30p.m. I feel like my eyes are sore and just wanna give up on me. headache is bit tolerable.

8:20 p.m. took dinner. And Escitalopram 1 mg. 

[Altostrata]

4-5 hours of sleep is not too bad for someone recovering from withdrawal syndrome. 

 

Your other symptoms are mild. Suggest you work on strengthening your sleep via the links I gave you and relax about watching your symptom pattern so closely. By focusing on them so much, you may be convincing yourself they're bigger than they are.

[Yesyes123]

27 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

By focusing on them so much, you may be convincing yourself they're bigger than they are.

 

Totally agree. This happens a lot to me.

[Demi918]

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Your other symptoms are mild.

It is getting sharp and keeping me at edge all the time since past 3 days. feels like they are just getting worst day by day again.

 

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

you may be convincing yourself they're bigger than they are

Possible, but to be in this situation is not helping at all.

@Altostrata How about switching to 5 mg Fluoxetine which is has long half life and easy for a taper?

I am getting pressure from my family and GP to start 5 mg that she prescribed to come out of this withdrawals.

[Go2zero]

42 minutes ago, Demi918 said:

How about switching to 5 mg Fluoxetine which is has long half life and easy for a taper?

 

This is something I did. See my introduction post. I had extreme WD from tapering escitalopram too fast. This drug is so powerful that even at 0,25mg one can get in severe WD when tapering too fast.

 

I bridged to Prozac (0,5mg which is an equivalent to 0,25 escitalopram). And I crashed. HARD! 

 

What happened? I still got all the WD effects of stopping Escitalopram! Bridging does not automatically mean that you will make a nice and easy change. In several cases (as in mine) one goes through the complete WD of stopping the first drug and adapting to a new drug....

 

I needed around 7 months to stabilize from this change from escitalopram to prozac.... I hardly slept. I tried sleeping medication which did not work. I ended up with seroquel (low dose) for 2 months, because of these extreme sleeping problems. Had to taper that too then.

 

And almost 2 years after bridging I am still busy tapering Prozac. Which is not easy at all, even with its long half life....

 

OK, we are all different. But do you want to gamble? 

 

With my current knowledge and experience I would never have made this change to prozac. Better taper escitalopram extremely slowly to a minimum of 0,05mg, is my opinion. 

 

Also good to know, after too fast tapering of too fast stopping, it can take months to stabilize again when one reinstates. So maybe you should give it time...

 

[Go2zero]

By the way... 1mg of escitalopram has a SERT (blockage of serotonin receptors) of approximately 45%. A full pill of 10 mg has a SERT of aproximately 78%. So the power of 1mg is more then half of 10mg. The road from 1 mg to zero is way more difficult then the road from 10 to 2 mg.... Take care in these low dose regions. That is where the real dangers are, when tapering...

 

[Demi918]

19 minutes ago, Go2zero said:

By the way... 1mg of escitalopram has a SERT (blockage of serotonin receptors) of approximately 45%. A full pill of 10 mg has a SERT of aproximately 78%. So the power of 1mg is more then half of 10mg. The road from 1 mg to zero is way more difficult then the road from 10 to 2 mg.... Take care in these low dose regions. That is where the real dangers are, when tapering...

@Go2zero, I really appreciate your input in this matter. Sometimes we are so scared that we need some motivation like this.

I will stick to Escitalopram 1.5  mg for now. I won't change it after hearing your story.

It's just My symptoms are so strong sometimes. and As I almost stopped CTed (too fast taper in one month). I almost crashed after one month and half.