Alan1234: desperately seeking help

[Alan1234]

Hi 

I was just wondering how to taper the small tapers people are managing to do on this site. I would really appreciate your help 

 

I have been on Anti Depressants for almost 20yrs

2003-2014 seroxat 20mg

2014-2020 venlafaxine 150mg tapered off for 2years

Aug 2020 - now mitazepine 15mg

approx 4/6 weeks after tapering off I developed insomnia and severe anxiety, palpations, tinnitus vertigo in bed and finally depression from chronic insomnia. I have been given Zopliclone, diazepam , trazadone all helped for about 3/4 days then made my symptoms worse again. 

 

I want to get off these drugs forever I feel they have completely ruined me. I was never anywhere near like this before I took them.

 

how do I get from 15mg Mitazepine to 0mg ? With a pill cutter I can only seem to cut the pills in half otherwise if I try to cut into quarters they crumble .

Edited March 21, 2021 by getofflex
I merged this second thread into the thread that already had responses. It may be confusing because of the dates.

[Alan1234]

Hi I’ve been on Anti depressants for approx 20yrs. After coming off Venlafaxine in May 2020 my life has fell apart.  After being off it for approx 4wks I started to develop severe anxiety and insomnia.  I also have developed tinnitus, facial skin problems and OAB. I just want my anxiety and insomnia to go as now my mood is really depressed again and I can’t see a way out. Since May 2020 I’ve been prescribed sertraline, prozac, Mitazepine Trazadone, diazepam, beta blockers, Zopliclone.

 

Each day varies between severe anxiety, or next day anxiety and depression with constant battle with insomnia. I may sleep 2/3 days a week at present.

 

i want to get off all these drugs but don’t know why way to turn. I have a psychiatrist appointment in 4 days.

 

Do I need drugs to get rid of the anxiety and depression first before starting a taper? 
I feel I’ve battled anxiety/insomnia/insomnia depression since May so should I just taper Mitazepine/Trazadone now and dig in for the long haul. That is what my heart is telling me, I just don’t know how to do it. 
 

I don’t understand how you divide tablets into tiny adjusted micro taper? I use a pill cutter but it’s very difficult to do small dose adjustments.

 

your help will be greatly appreciated 

I have no where to turn as Doctors aren’t interested 

 

history

2001-2014 Paxil 20mg

2014-May 2020 Venlafaxine tapered over 3 years from 150mg to 18.75mg to every other day, to every 3 days

 

Currently 

mitazapine 15mg pd

Trazodone 150mg pd

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Gridley

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Alan1234.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.  You can simply copy the information in your post using the following link.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

The symptoms you describe sound like classic typical withdrawal symptoms, including anxiety and depression. Aside from a cold turkey, there is no surer way to bring about withdrawal than skipping doses.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain the healing process really well.

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

4 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

Do I need drugs to get rid of the anxiety and depression first before starting a taper? 

No.  You have tried a number of drugs and they haven't helped.  Continuing down this same road is not likely to help.

 

4 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

so should I just taper Mitazepine/Trazadone now

You should taper only one drug at a time.  Otherwise, if problems arise, you won't know the cause.  We recommend tapering the more activating drug first, leaving the sedating  drug to preserve sleep as a buffer to taper later.  Since both mirtazapine and trazodone are sedating drugs, you'll have to decide which to taper first.  Read carefully the following two links to help you decide.  Both links contain information about how to get the small nonstandard doses you'll need for your taper.  We can talk further about methods of taper later once you've absorbed the information provided here.  There are several possibilities.

 

Tips for tapering off mirtazapine (Remeron)

Tips for tapering off trazodone (Desyrel)
Aka Oleptro, Beneficat, Deprax, Desirel, Molipaxin, Thombran, Trazorel, Trialodine, Trittico, and Mesyrel

 

As you'll see from the post on tapering trazodone, it's a particularly nasty drug and has negative interactions with mirtazapine, so it's a good idea to get off one or the other (but not both at the same time).

 

We recommend tapering by no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks--no faster and no skipping doses.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that ae single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

When you see your psychiatrist, keep in mind that the vast majority of psychiatrists know nothing about safe tapering and don't believe in the existence of withdrawal.  They get their information from the pharmaceutical companies, who have little incentive to talk about the dangers of withdrawal from their extremely profitable product.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can complete your drug signature, ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Gridley

[Alan1234]

Hey Gridley 

 

thanks for your reply 

your help is very much appreciated

 

im constantly stressed and anxious atm so my thought process isn’t the clearest.

 

I can find tapering dosage guidance on the site but I literally don’t understand how or know the first place to start in how to make the minute adjustments to tablets dosage for consumption.

 

what equipment do you need and where can I get it from?

 

are there any video links or anything I can use to help start this process as obviously my withdrawal from venlafaxine has created all this as I wasn’t able to get the taper as dialled in by splitting tablets like I did

[Gridley]

25 minutes ago, Alan1234 said:

 

I can find tapering dosage guidance on the site but I literally don’t understand how or know the first place to start in how to make the minute adjustments to tablets dosage for consumption.

 

what equipment do you need and where can I get it from?

 

Please read the links about tapering  mirtazapine and trazodone.  They list several several methods.  See which is most comfortable for you.  Making a liquid is a favored method by many on this site.

 

The method I chose was dry cutting.  I tapered off Lexapro by crushing the tablet between two spoons and then weighing powder using the Gemini 20 scale available on Amazon.com.  I was able to reduce my dose little by little this way.  I can help you step by step if you choose this method.

 

But before you do anything, read the links, especially on tapering the two drugs.  That will help you decide which drug to taper first and what method to use.

 

Here are relevant links:

GEMINI-20 Portable Precision Digital Milligram ... - Amazon.com

Here is information on using a scale:

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

And for liquid, please see:

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Gridley

[Alan1234]

Hi Gridley

 

yes if you could help me I would really really like that. I don’t have anyone who knows or who has experienced this stuff to help me.

 

I have lost two jobs since venlafaxine withdrawal and I’m not able to work at the moment and I have had to move out of the family home, as my side affects have affected others.

 

Are you able to work and have your withdrawal symptoms got better? 
 

I have only been taking trazadone for one week so it seems wise to stop that first. I was given it for the insomnia which has raged since May 2020 after stopping Venlafaxine.

 

if you crush and weigh the tablet taper dose do you just then swallow the powder with a drink?

[Gridley]

28 minutes ago, Alan1234 said:

 

Are you able to work and have your withdrawal symptoms got better? 

I'm retired, so luckily for me work isn't an issue.  My withdrawal symptoms have definitely gotten better as I tapered off the Lexapro very slowly.

 

28 minutes ago, Alan1234 said:

 

I have only been taking trazadone for one week so it seems wise to stop that first.

You are correct.  If you've been taking the trazodone for only one week, you can simply stop taking it.  A person is at risk of withdrawal after a month on a psychiatric drug, and you are well short of that.

 

28 minutes ago, Alan1234 said:

 

if you crush and weigh the tablet taper dose do you just then swallow the powder with a drink?

 

Before you start tapering the mirtazapine, I would get off the trazodone and make no changes to the mirtazapine for two weeks  How long have you been on the mirtazapine?  Please complete your drug signature (instructions in my first post to you).  The signature will then appear after each of your posts and is very helpful to us.

 

Before you start tapering the mirtazapine, I need to give you some specific instruction on how to calculate 10% of your current dose.  So don't do anything yet on that.  To answer your question, the best way to take a powder (once you've calculated and weighed your dose) is to pour the powder into a size 0 or 00 gelatin capsule, available on Amazon.com.  If you want to get all your equipment in one order, you could order the Gemini scale and the gelatin capsules at the same time.  I also found a powder measuring spoon (Google "powder measuring spoon") to see several options.  But hold off on the mirt taper for two weeks and we can go from there at that point to get you off the mirtazapine.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Gridley

[Alan1234]

Thanks Gridley that’s great help

 

yes I will follow your guidance 

 

I think I need to look for a suitable none stressful job for the long haul while my body recovers from 20+yrs of these drugs. They have literally wrecked me mentally and it has destroyed my family. My wife isn’t supportive and just wants me to take the drugs and get stable again as financially they are reliant on me. 
 

I have moved out of the family home but I do want to help financially support her and my daughter for my own self respect and also not to let the whole destruction these drugs have caused.

 

I’ll Order the equipment and get ready for the next fight 

[Alan1234]

On the powder measuring spoons what size do you need?

 

i assume it doesn’t really matter as it’s just to put the weighed  powder in the capsule ?

[Alan1234]

If I’ve spent more of my life on Anti Depressants (25yrs) is it possible to ever not be on them and be healthy and have a normal life ?

 

I don’t know how much longer I can go on like this for 

[ChessieCat]

Each member has only 1 Introduction topic which is the best place to ask questions about your own situation and journal your progress.  This way your history is all in one place and you will not have to repeat your story.  The moderators regularly check the Introduction forum for new posts.

 

Check out the Success Stories forum. 

 

Success stories: Recovery from withdrawal

 

Shep and GiaK were on drug cocktails and are both now drug free.  Click on the links I provided and check out their drug signatures (at the bottom of their first post) to see an overview of their drug history.

 

You can also find members who are still taking drug/s but are much improved:

 

To find the topics marked with a sun ( ☼), enter this in Google search (has to be Google):

site:survivingantidepressants.org ☼ 

 

This will return all the ☼ topics. (☼ is the Unicode for this symbol. It does not work in site search.)

 

The ☼ topics are people who have turned the corner and are on their roads to recovery.

[Alan1234]

I’m sorry I’m really down.

I really never knew after not realising being on these drugs for 20yrs of what it would be like. My withdrawal is severe and it’s ruining not only my life but my estranged wife and daughter as there getting more and more anxious now I can’t financially support them. 
I really don’t know how the site works and I know you can’t give advice on drugs but now I’m questioning my selfishness and having fears and doubts that I should go back on them so I give money for my wife and child even though I don’t live with them anymore. They don’t understand and it’s making them worse.

 

social support in the uk is terrible, I feel like my anxiety is a tumble dryer I can’t escape from. I need to work but my symptoms stop me at present but the longer I can’t the anxiety and symptoms get worse with the worry as to when it will end 

[ChessieCat]

SA strongly encourages members to learn and use non drug techniques.

 

Non-drug techniques

[ChessieCat]

This topic will be moved to your original Introduction topic here:

 

alan1234-desperately-seeking-help

 

We have other members who are in a similar situation to you.  You might find helpful discussion in this area of the site:

 

relationships-and-social-life

Edited March 23, 2021 by getofflex
topics merged

[ChessieCat]

@Alan1234

 

Your topics have been merged.

 

This is your Introduction topic.  Please post here.

 

On 3/23/2021 at 7:42 AM, ChessieCat said:

Each member has only 1 Introduction topic which is the best place to ask questions about your own situation and journal your progress.  This way your history is all in one place and you will not have to repeat your story.  The moderators regularly check the Introduction forum for new posts.

 

[Rosetta]

Alan, 

 

I’m so sorry you are struggling.  Please believe me as I have been through it — you will not get better by taking any new drugs the doctor gives you.   They will hurt you more.  I know because I followed the doctor’s advice, and I became very, very sick.  

After I became so sick, I made a huge mistake by cold turkey-ing Zoloft.  Don’t cold turkey mirtazapine.  What you need to do is let your nervous system settle down by giving it consistency.  Unless a Moderator here says otherwise, stay with your 15 mg dose, and be very careful to take it every day, without fail, at the same time of day.

 

The way I started to recover was by letting my nervous system alone, but you don’t want to do what I did — quit the drug your nervous system needs to remain somewhat functional.  I went through months of unnecessary suffering by doing that.  You need mirtazapine ONLY because you have taken it for too long, but now you are stuck with it for the time being.  Just don’t make any changes right now.
 

Your nervous system experienced a shock when you reduced the dose of venlafaxine, then another when you reduced again, and another when you dropped the dose again.  When you quit venlafaxine that was another shock.  A big one.  
 

These drugs are not interchangable.  The same thing happened to me when a doctor switched me from one to the other.  It’s called a cold switch.  It’s as bad as cold turkey or worse.  Then, when you took Sertraline, Prozac, and Busiprione each increased the harm.  They each shocked your system - your very fragile and abused nervous system.

Mirtazpine:

It was a long time ago that you switched to mirtazapine as far as your brain is concerned.  When your doctor increased the dose to 30 that shocked your system again.  With each shock the degree of dysfunction in the nervous system increases.  With each change of mirtazapine, it’s a shock, including the reductions.  These drugs should be very carefully changed by tiny doses that are not available in pill form from the makers.
 

You have identified the problem as the drugs, but the solution is something the doctors cannot accept.  Stop drastically changing things!  If there is a problem, reduce the drug very, very slowly.  That’s the solution.  Switching drugs and jerking doses around, up and down, is very harmful.  Adding drugs is very harmful.

 

Once your nervous system has been made dysfunctional by these changes, after that, every time you take a new drug the system is shocked again.  The doses that a normal nervous system should be able to handle are far too much for a sensitized system after a cold switch, cold turkey, or even just a large change - up or down - in dose.  It’s like having a stroke or a traumatic brain injury.  
 

My husband noticed the similarity to the descriptions of TBI and what was happening to me.  If only we had known not to cold turkey.

 

Taking new drugs will not fix you like a Tylenol fixes a headache.  You are not being irresponsible by wanting to avoid more drugs.  To the contrary, you must protect yourself from any changes and any new drugs if you want to recover!  If you want to help your wife and daughter, you must not allow your nervous system to be destabilized any further.  Your way back to health is to be very gentle with your system.

It’s a very delicate dance — you need to:

 

1. Stay on the drug you have been taking for a while or you will feel worse; (Yes, this is essentially addiction except you won’t crave the drugs.  Otherwise, it’s the same thing.)

2. Avoid new drugs at all cost;

3. Take your doses at the same time every day (within 15 minutes or so);

4.  Never take a double dose to make up for a missed dose (Very, very important)

5. Do not miss doses (Also very important)

After you do this for a while, then you can worry about how to reduce the dose you are taking.  You need to “stabilize.”  Let your brain operate on that 15 mg for a while until you start to feel better.

 

Trazodone is a horrible drug that can cause anxiety during the day even while it helps you “sleep” at night.  Dump it.  It is very dangerous and should be banned, in my opinion.  It doesn’t give you real sleep either.  It’s more like anesthesia.  You are out!  Guess why? Because your very sensitive nervous system can’t handle that dose.  If the doctor knew how much that drug is affecting you, he would be shocked.  I was given 150 mg of Traz.  I was dead to the world.

Going back to Venlafaxine will not help.  Don’t let a doctor tell you that you should try that.  You have been on mirtazapine long enough that your brain needs it, but don’t increase the dose whatever you do.  Increasing the dose may increase your symptoms by a surprising amount.
 

Don’t let any doctor give you benzos!  Benzos are absolutely as addictive and dangerous as heroin.  People are addicted in less than two weeks.  And, of course, they will shock your sensitive system just like any other drug.

 

To be clear, they last time you took Sertraline, Prozac or Busipirone was prior to September of 2020, correct?

 

I wish there were an easy solution for you, but it’s important that you know that taking more drugs is not at all the “responsible” way to handle what has happened to you.  You will only get sicker if you do that.  Most people and even doctors have no idea what these drugs do to people.  

A virgin nervous system might be able to handle what the doctors recommend, but once we have messed with that system once and created a destabilized situation, all bets are off.  The drug trials don’t account for sensitized nervous systems.  When a subject’s response to a drug is unexpected that person is out of the trial.  That fact is never taken into account when (almost all) doctors are prescribing.
 

I hope you start to feel better soon.  You will heal.  Of that, I am certain.  It is going to take a while, I’m afraid.  You will have to accept that no one is going to be happy in the meantime, but for you to have time with your daughter down the road, you have to “stop the train” now.  
 

My best, Rosetta

[Rosetta]

Oh, I forgot, alcohol is a drug, too.  Definitely don’t drink.  Your system can’t handle that.

 

The brain can heal from this; the nervous system can heal from this.  It’s miraculous.  The fact that it appears as TBI or stroke means nothing.  It’s not TBI or stroke in the sense that the brain will heal - all by itself if giving the proper care.

[Alan1234]

Hi Rosetta

 

thanks for the detailed reply.

it’s correct I haven’t taken Sertraline, Prozac or Buspirone since Sept 2020.

 

As my insomnia is so bad and I’m having severe episodes of Hypic jerks often most nights, my doctor wants me to take Zopliclone for 2wks to try and get a established sleep routine and Propanalol for anxiety.

 

he knows I’m reluctant to take drugs and I rejected the diazepam he keeps offering me. 

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Alan1234 said:

my doctor wants me to take Zopliclone for 2wks to try and get a established sleep routine and Propanalol for anxiety.

Rosetta has given you excellent advice about holding steady and not adding more drugs.

 

 

 

 

[AlanC]

Hello Alan, really sorry to hear you're having such a hard time.

 

I'm also going to back up what Rosetta has said. I've been through a similar situation with a doctor doing a rapid switch from Citalopram to Mirtazapine, using Zopiclone to try and smooth over the transition. To say it didn't work is a huge understatement: it resulted in some sort of manic or psychotic episode that I'm still deeply frightened by more than three years later. Of course, this is just my own personal experience, but you'll find so many people on this forum who have been on antidepressants for a long time have reacted in unexpected, paradoxical ways when new drugs have been introduced.

 

On the subject of Zopiclone, while it's not a benzo it has very similar effects and, apparently, is just as likely to cause dependence. I remember it in particular for a side effect listed in the leaflet: sleep driving. Apparently some people have taken it, gone to "sleep" and then gone off for a drive in their car: they're apparently sufficiently aware to be able to drive but aren't awake.

 

Only you can decide whether you want to follow your doctor's suggestion to try additional drugs in an effort to stop the withdrawal, but you might like to listen to the Mad in America - Online Support Groups for Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal podcast that ChessieCat linked to recently. There's some interesting information in there about the ongoing development of NHS support for people withdrawing from antidepressants, and Prof. John Read (who has been a major influence in getting the problem recognised) talks about how those services will be based on the knowledge found in the on-line groups and forums, and about his survey of GP's to determine their knowledge of how to handle withdrawal.

[Alan1234]

Yes I understand 

 

it’s  I only get some sleep every 3days after 3nights of crippling anxiety which causes the insomnia 

I really don’t know how long I can go on like this for. It’s getting worse over the last 3wks not better.

 

my heart is beating out of my chest all day everyday screaming out in discomfort because it can’t rest.

 

I  can’t lie down because when I do I get what I think are hypic jerks and my heart suddenly pounds very hard and then misses a beat. This happens over and over again and makes it so I can’t lie down. I constantly get uncontrollable nerve sensations and restless legs and tinnitus  

the longer this goes on and I don’t sleep I can’t control my thoughts and my own subconscious is screaming with a roaring voice screaming stop 

 

ive tried every sleeping and breathing technique there is and they simply can’t turn this anxiety off it’s too powerful for some reason.

 

my wife has phoned me yesterday and her and my daughter have been asked to leave the rental house we had. She can’t afford another place in her own.

she can’t move all the furniture on her own and I will lose all my possessions. I’m not even well enough to help move the stuff 

 

i really want to help her but I’m powerless to stop all this 

 

I really need some help I can’t do this anymore on my own 

this is indescribable torture and the worse thing imaginable 

I’ve read all the links that I have been directed too, with respect they don’t touch  what I’m experiencing. Yes I know they talk about withdraw,  self help, anxiety and sleep advice but it’s too severe where I’m at to help.

where can I get help, what can I do to stop everyday being unbearable 

 

if I could only sleep if this anxiety and all it’s affects would only stop for some regular time

[AlanC]

Alan, do you have family or friends who could give you some immediate support? It's clear that you're in a very bad situation, and you really do need someone to help you deal with it. The same for your wife: does she have anyone who could give some support for herself and your daughter?

[Alan1234]

Hi Alan

 

my wife has her sisters for support which is lucky and my daughter who struggles with her own mental health and seeing me has made her worse has a friend.

 

I have my mother but I need to be careful as she’s 74 with health issues and has her own anxiety issues and when she worries about me it makes her a lot worse, so I have to be careful about breaking down and crying in front of her for example.

 

i don’t really have any friends only friends who I have met through my job or previous jobs. 
 

ive been honest with them on how I’m feeling to a point with the anxiety and insomnia but not on suicidal thoughts. I only get these as a reaction to the severity of the anxiety and insomnia and it’s unrelenting nature or if I think about how much my health has affected my family. 
 

ive just not told people that I think my symptoms are from taking 20 years worth of anti depressants. They think I’m just having my first major episode of and depression so keep expecting me to be ok in a week or so. My wife obviously knows different but she can’t understand why the new anti depressants haven’t helped me and why I can’t get in an even keel. Because of the length of time it’s been since this protracted withdrawal started 11mths approx it’s caused her her own mental health problems now as her mother is also very sick so I’ve had to move out and now live with my mother. I want to be better for my family as they don’t deserve this but I can’t keep telling her how bad I am as she gets stressed and says what do you want me to do. Then tells me to go to the doctor and when they give me drugs she says I must take them as they know better and it’s my fault as I’m not giving whatever drugs they give me long enough to work. My mother is the same they just think that the doctor knows best and it’s my fault 

[Alan1234]

Hi Alanc

 

thank you for your replies

 

is there any NHS help that have been developed I can’t find anything 

 

i don’t want to sound dramatic but I don’t know how much longer I can keep going on like this

 

i don’t want to go back on drugs like Zopliclone but if it gives me some temporary relief and potentially keeps me here is that not better than how I’m feeling/heading right now. Literally something has to give. I’m not trying to disrespect peoples help on here and I realise no one has all the answers. 
 

Someother people on SA must have gone through this, am I the worst? Why can’t I stop by his? why won’t it end?

 

is it because I have been on these horrible drugs for close to 25yrs? It means I have been on them for nearly half my life. Can my brain ever realistically recover ? No one ever told me about these affects, i wrongly assumed that my doctors have had my best interests at heart, why did they never ever review my medication in all the 25yrs 

 

 

[AlanC]

Hello Alan,

 

According to Prof. John Read in the podcast, the NHS services are in the initial planning stages. He has been appointed as an advisor, so something is definitely happening but, unfortunately, nothing is likely to become available in the immediate future. 

 

You really need one of the moderators to advise you. From their previous advice to other forum members it might be that going back on a very small dose of the Venlafaxine could provide you with some relief from the symptoms, or it might be that you're now sufficiently far from the date you stopped for this to work. The presence of the Mirtazapine complicates everything, and I'm afraid I really can't, and shouldn't, try to give advice here because I don't have the level of knowledge the moderators do.

 

@Gridley Please could you, or one of the other moderators advise Alan whether attempting reinstatement would be possible or advisable at this point?

 

What's happening is, undoubtedly, down to how long you've been on the antidepressants. I spent 17 years out of 20 on various antidepressants and went through some far too rapid discontinuations and swaps between them. This is what makes everything worse and leaves people in the sort of situation you are in now, and that I was in when my doctor attempted a rapid swap from Citalopram to Mirtazapine.

 

The withdrawal feels like it's going to last forever and, rather like depression, when you're trapped in the depths of it you feel like you've always been there and it will never go away. But it will become less, and eventually you will be completely free of it.

[getofflex]

@Alan1234I'm deeply sorry for what you are going through.  I really wish there was more I could do to help.  Unfortunately, these drugs do make significant changes to our nervous systems, and when we go off of them it is hard on our system because it has to undo all the changes to go back to the pre drug state.  Since you were on and off several drugs, it is hard for me to say which drug is doing what.  

 

I do want to reassure you that as you very gradually taper off of them, you will get better, but it will take time.  Withdrawal from psych meds is definitely not easy, but the good news is, our brains are very capable of healing.  Whenever I am tempted to lose hope, I read some of the success stories, and it really helps me.  Perhaps it could help you too.  

 

Insomnia and anxiety have been major issues to me too in withdrawal.  Here is what helps me:  prayer, trusting in God, and at night I listen to very calming music when I'm unable to sleep.  

 

Hang in there, and I'm praying for you. 

[Alan1234]

Hi getofflex

 

I went to see a physiatrist two day’s and he’s told me CT mitazepine and prescribed me Paxil 

 

im literally in a mess and fighting to hold on to life 

 

I simply cannot cope with feeling like this anymore and need Gods help to save me. 
 

im scared I can’t get through this anymore for my family

 

I literally can’t make and stick with any decisions because I feel constantly so bad.

 

im scared to completely CT as I feel so bad. I think I probably need some drug to keep me alive but I just can’t get stable long enough 

 

The psychiatrist said I have a severe anxiety disorder and the only way to get better is getting stable on a new medication (Paxil) 

 

I don’t want to take anymore drugs but I’m scared of losing this battle. Maybe if I take sleeping tablets and no anti depressants this will patch me up for a while

 

i really really need help

if I ring the hospital they will probably take me in and drug me more 

 

please God for all my family help me 

[Gridley]

5 hours ago, AlanC said:

 

@Gridley Please could you, or one of the other moderators advise Alan whether attempting reinstatement would be possible or advisable at this point?

 

You are around 10 months out from Venlafaxine.  The farther out you are the less chance you have for success, which is most predictable within 3 months of the last dose.  Reinstatement is risky and can make things worse.  I'd advise against reinstatement.

[Gridley]

On 3/19/2021 at 2:17 PM, Alan1234 said:

i assume it doesn’t really matter as it’s just to put the weighed  powder in the capsule ?

The spoon I have has a longish handle (6 inches) with a very small spoon portion.  It doesn't really matter; whatever works for you.

I used the spoon more for adding and subtracting powder from the scale to get my dosage.  I used the post-it or weighing paper for pouring into the capsule.

 

9 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

is it because I have been on these horrible drugs for close to 25yrs? It means I have been on them for nearly half my life. Can my brain ever realistically recover

I have been on psychiatric drugs for over 34 years and am healing by tapering very slowly drug by drug.  You can do it.

 

6 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

I have a severe anxiety disorder and the only way to get better is getting stable on a new medication (Paxil) 

We don't put much stock in psychiatric diagnoses on this site.  Paxil is a very difficult drug to taper off.  These drugs aren't interchangeable and CT'ing off Mirtazapine could destabilize you further.  

 

6 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

Maybe if I take sleeping tablets and no anti depressants this will patch me up for a while

I will refer you to Rosetta's wise previous post and make no further changes at this point.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Gridley

[Rosetta]

Please do not switch drugs.  

 

You are in the U.K.?  NHS?  
 

I recognize all your symptoms.  To be unable to work is not something that happens to everyone in withdrawal, but it happened to me, too.  I’m lucky to even be alive as are a lot of people on this forum.  

The moderators tell you to start with tiny doses of fish oil or magnesium (either/or - Not both, and absolutely nothing else!) for a reason.  The same should go for any drug a doctor prescribes, but SA simply will not meddle in the use of psychoactive substances because it is far too dangerous.  The only things that are reasonably safe are fish oil and magnesium.  What we do know is that new drugs almost always harm anyone who is exhibiting the symptoms that you are exhibiting.  We have seen it happen over and over and over again.

I know your doctor sees someone in distress, and wants to help.  He’s not a bad person, but he has not been educated about this syndrome - not in school, not vía continuing education, and not by his peers.  There is a deliberate ignorance in the profession.  However, this syndrome has been around for ages.  It is essentially (meaning exactly) post acute withdrawal syndrome.  It is well known as a consequence of alcohol addiction, benzo addiction, and street drug addiction.  The pharmaceutical industry has been successfully hiding the fact that ADs can cause PAWS since the 1990s.

 

So few doctors have any idea what they are doing with these drugs.  They are killing people.  They don’t know that.  

 

As for propranolol, you will be quite sensitive to it.  You need to know the side effects and act fast if you experience any of the serious ones.  It slows the heart rate, it affects blood sugar, etc.  See https://www.drugs.com/tips/propranolol-patient-tips

 

Read this about zopiclone:

https://www.pathfields.co.uk/zopiclone-aware-yp/#
Zopiclone is extremely addictive.  Two weeks!!?!  Far too long.  You need to research the half life and find out When it leaves your system.  You can’t take it again until after that.  Your system must be free of the drug for some period of time before the next dose to avoid addiction.  You should discuss this issue with your doctor, but don’t take his word for it.  Research it yourself to be sure he has his facts straight.
 

Z is going to affect you to a far greater extent than it would someone who has not taken other drugs and developed WD and a dysfunctional nervous system.  I hope you don’t have to drive at all. 

Someday, it’s going to be widely known that these drugs cause this syndrome and that CTing and using different, new drugs cause adverse effects that look like worsening mental conditions or new conditions.  I think that time is coming within the next 10 years, I hope.  Your wife and mother will find out that your doctor was wrong.  Your job is to live through this and be there when they do - for your daughter’s sake.
 

You have been on mirtazapine too long to quit CT.  I hope you can get the prescription refilled.  For God’s sake, don’t take Paxil!

 

 

[Alan1234]

Rosetta thanks for your help

 

if I now  stop Paxil should I restart the mirt 15mg it’s just that wasn’t helping me sleep and also it was also not helping and my severe anxiety has got worse on it. When they upped the dose of mirt to 30mg it made me have a restless whole body and uncomfortable nerve sensations that were only relived by shaking and moving my limbs 

[ChessieCat]

13 minutes ago, Alan1234 said:

if I now  stop Paxil

 

Q:  Have you started taking Paxil?

 

If yes, when did you start it and what dose?

 

14 minutes ago, Alan1234 said:

should I restart the mirt 15mg

 

Q:  When did you stop taking mirtazapine?

 

What dose did you stop taking?

 

 

[Alan1234]

Yes Rosseta I’m in the UK and yes NHS

 

Just to reiterate I don’t mean to be disrespectful or upset or go against any members or the groups advice. 
I’m here because I know how these drugs have affected me and what to be off them.

 

The problem is if I had known about this site before I came off Venlafaxine than I may not have experienced this hell and still be able to work and have my family and not be in a his severe prolonged withdraw.

 

I know this site will never advocate this but l literally can’t function as a normal human being such are my symptoms atm. I simply can’t go on like this it’s killing me. 
 

i definitely do not take it lightly and feel disgusting I still need to put these drugs in my body after what they have caused and turned me into. However a part of my intuition and intelligence tells me if I could a period of  stability on one of these drugs for a few months then surely a gradual micro taper which is what I should of done for the Venlafaxine is likely to be more successful then where my body and mind are at present. It’s currently in severe shock and a long way off being right. Is two steps back to get stability to go one step forward not a more sensible thing to do than staying in the same place or getting worse for potentially years. I’ve already gone significantly worse since last May.

Mirt has made my insomnia worse, stopped working after about 1mth for sleep and now I’m not taking it I expect I will rebound again 

[Alan1234]

Hi Chessiecat

 

stopped Mirt 15mg 3 days ago

started Paxil 10mg 3 days ago 

[ChessieCat]

If you have decided that you do not want to keep taking Paxil then it would be better to stop is straight away.  Please note that you need to make the decision about whether to keep taking it or to stop it.

[Alan1234]

Hi Chessiecat

 

i don’t want to take any of these drugs.

 

I know and respect that no one on his site would advocate taking another physcological drug. I don’t want to be kicked off this site and appreciate any help more than you know, I’m just clinging on to my life here, just about.

maybe I’m just weak or my drug dependence due to the length of time has had a bigger affect on my nervous system I do not know.

 

Please see my reasons and rationale in the above reply to Rosseta. 

obviously I’m in this hell because of a naive far from optimal taper from long term Venlafaxine 

 

this hell started last June/July it has steadily gotten much worse.

 

i haven’t been stable on any drug since although most I couldn’t tolerate long enough to allow that. 
 

i was able to tolerate low dose mirt it helped abit with stuff like the insomnia and anxiety for a few weeks. 
 

I need some stability as being just on the mirt I was just getting worse and worse and believe you me there isn’t much more I can tolerate and for much longer I can tolerate it. So it’s not a decision I take lightly or one I want to do other than I need to save my life now I’m these moments