Alan1234: desperately seeking help

[Altostrata]

10 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

I have access to a printer but I won’t be able to get a face to face appointment with my doctor. They stopped doing them due to Covid and have conveniently not started them back up now the rest of the world is back to normal 

 

Mail it or e-mail it.

 

We're not about to recommend experimenting with random drugs for withdrawal syndrome. If you want to try agomelantine, that's between you and your prescriber.

[Alan1234]

3 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Mail it or e-mail it.

 

We're not about to recommend experimenting with random drugs for withdrawal syndrome. If you want to try agomelantine, that's between you and your prescriber.

My GP had a hard enough time making a phone call for the appointment. It might sound like an excuse but there’s no way he would provide me his practice email address and look at it from my previous experiences. 
 

I know you are trying to help me and I do very much appreciate it. I’m sorry you think I’m asking you advise on ‘random drugs’. Forgive me as we had had a discussion around diazepam I wrongly assumed you may have an expert opinion on the drug I mentioned and be able to advise. I obviously take more stock and value your opinion far more than ‘my prescriber’, hence I would trust your judgement more. 

[Altostrata]

I suggested diazepam or zopiclone because you said they worked for you. We don't know of any miracle drugs, or we'd recommend them.

[Rosetta]

Are you feeling any better?  I hope so. -R

[Alan1234]

45 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Are you feeling any better?  I hope so. -R

I’m afraid not, the anxiety and panic is constant which I’m sure is the cause of the insomnia. The tinnitus is also like it was at the beginning and I have bilateral nerve symptoms in both calves like the Akathisia but I can resist moving them to a point. However it makes lying and relaxing impossible. 

thank you for your thoughts though 

[Rosetta]

Oh my.  I’m so sorry to hear that.  I wish I could fast forward the process for you.

[Alan1234]

1 hour ago, Rosetta said:

Oh my.  I’m so sorry to hear that.  I wish I could fast forward the process for you.

I know thank you. I’m just going to have to accept it 

[Alan1234]

Just looking for more advice although I understand with how I am that this is increasing difficult to provide.

 

I have had ongoing issues on my skin and face which dates back approx 20mths. More recently over the last 6mths i developed a new condition which is presumably due to the stress of and withdrawal. 
 

my doctor sent me to a dermatologist who has told me the new problem is Rosacea and I also have perioral dermatitis which started a while ago. 
 

He has prescribed me 2mths of an anti biotic oxytetracycline. I have noticed that my tinnitus has been made worse since starting the antibiotics 3 days ago and again I haven’t slept. 
 

is it safe for me to continue to take the antibiotics as long as the effects don’t get anymore severe? The dermatologist said that because if the severity of the conditions it needed treating like this and as soon as possible. I’ve read that antibiotics affect the CNS presumably they can’t affect it to the same degree as the AD that have caused this ?

[Anya324]

@Alan1234
Personally, I would not take the antibiotic if it made wd worse. It wipes out the good gut bacteria and messes with hormones and all sorts of stuff. Are they giving it to you as an anti-inflammatory or because you have pustule bumps (sign of actual infection)?  Read up on antibiotics for rosacea and make an informed decision as to whether it’s worth it or not. 
 

Since my too fast taper, I have experienced several symptoms of histamine intolerance. I am seeing a functional medicine doctor on Thursday and will confirm this. Many of your symptoms fall under the histamine intolerance as well (or even MCAS). If you’re able, read up on these and try to find a FMD. It think the trauma of WD causes a systemic reaction in our bodies and a fire begins. 
 

Praying for relief for you soon 

[Alan1234]

3 hours ago, Anya324 said:

@Alan1234
Personally, I would not take the antibiotic if it made wd worse. It wipes out the good gut bacteria and messes with hormones and all sorts of stuff. Are they giving it to you as an anti-inflammatory or because you have pustule bumps (sign of actual infection)?  Read up on antibiotics for rosacea and make an informed decision as to whether it’s worth it or not. 
 

Since my too fast taper, I have experienced several symptoms of histamine intolerance. I am seeing a functional medicine doctor on Thursday and will confirm this. Many of your symptoms fall under the histamine intolerance as well (or even MCAS). If you’re able, read up on these and try to find a FMD. It think the trauma of WD causes a systemic reaction in our bodies and a fire begins. 
 

Praying for relief for you soon 

@Anya324 thank you for your help and thoughts. Yes the antibiotics are for the bumps. I’ve left it over 18mths and each time the flares are getting worse and they happen every 1/2 wks. 
I think I will have to persevere with them. Unfortunately I can’t access a FMD as I’m unable to work anymore as my symptoms and issues are that bad and I have literally no income or eligible for any benefits. 
 

ive not slept for the last 3 nights again and i have a constant raving heart rate, constant raging anxiety and I’m losing weight quite fast but obviously with the anxiety that’s rl be expected. I’m so tired too but the anxiety won’t allow me to sleep. I think I’m just being paranoid now as I navel had any problems before but do you think I should ask my doctor to check my thyroid or is it that my symptoms are simply a bad withdrawal?

[Alan1234]

16 hours ago, Anya324 said:

@Alan1234
Personally, I would not take the antibiotic if it made wd worse. It wipes out the good gut bacteria and messes with hormones and all sorts of stuff. Are they giving it to you as an anti-inflammatory or because you have pustule bumps (sign of actual infection)?  Read up on antibiotics for rosacea and make an informed decision as to whether it’s worth it or not. 
 

Since my too fast taper, I have experienced several symptoms of histamine intolerance. I am seeing a functional medicine doctor on Thursday and will confirm this. Many of your symptoms fall under the histamine intolerance as well (or even MCAS). If you’re able, read up on these and try to find a FMD. It think the trauma of WD causes a systemic reaction in our bodies and a fire begins. 
 

Praying for relief for you soon 

@Anya324 thank you for your help and thoughts. Yes the antibiotics are for the bumps. I’ve left it over 18mths and each time the flares are getting worse and they happen every 1/2 wks. 
I think I will have to persevere with them. Unfortunately I can’t access a FMD as I’m unable to work anymore as my symptoms and issues are that bad and I have literally no income or eligible for any benefits. 
 

ive not slept for the last 3 nights again and i have a constant raving heart rate, constant raging anxiety and I’m losing weight quite fast but obviously with the anxiety that’s rl be expected. I’m so tired too but the anxiety won’t allow me to sleep. I think I’m just being paranoid now as I navel had any problems before but do you think I should ask my doctor to check my thyroid or is it that my symptoms are simply a bad withdrawal?

[Alan1234]

4 days without sleep, it’s getting worse not better how long can I go on without sleep 

[Alan1234]

@Altostrata My doctor has agreed to prescribe me Zopliclone or Amitriptalyine for my sleep. He won’t prescribe Diazepam. I am going to take the Zopliclone. Do I need to stop the mirtazapine 1.75mg or should I taper ?

[Carmie]

4 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

4 days without sleep, it’s getting worse not better how long can I go on without sleep 

Hi Alan, 

 

I hope you eventually get some sleep. It’s awful when our nervous system goes into the hyper fight or flight stage. 
 

I’m not sure if this may help or not, but do you put blue blocking lights and glasses on in the evening? Do you go outside first thing in the morning? Have you gotten rid of caffeine and sugary and processed foods? Have you tried acupuncture, the relaxing kind, not the one that ramps up your nervous system? Do you do grounding, go outside everyday and put your bare feet on the ground for at least an hour? Do you take magnesium? Have you tried FasterEFT to help with your emotions? 
 

I really hope you’re able to get some sleep soon🤗

[Alan1234]

2 minutes ago, Carmie said:

Hi Alan, 

 

I hope you eventually get some sleep. It’s awful when our nervous system goes into the hyper fight or flight stage. 
 

I’m not sure if this may help or not, but do you put blue blocking lights and glasses on in the evening? Do you go outside first thing in the morning? Have you gotten rid of caffeine and sugary and processed foods? Have you tried acupuncture, the relaxing kind, not the one that ramps up your nervous system? Do you do grounding, go outside everyday and put your bare feet on the ground for at least an hour? Do you take magnesium? Have you tried FasterEFT to help with your emotions? 
 

I really hope you’re able to get some sleep soon🤗

Hi Carmie

ive never heard of blue blocking light glasses I will look into them. Yes I have been decaf for over a year. Although I read that this is possibly more harmful because of the decaf process and the beneficial parts of the tea etc are lost. Unfortunately I’ve lost my job and have no income for acupuncture sessions. I go outside everyday in my back yard yes. I take magnesium that seemed to help a little at first as did melotonin but neither have any affect now. I will look at Faster EFT but most often the anxiety is so bad I can’t find a window where I’m upto the usual coping techniques like meditation, breathing and trying them just makes me worse. 
thank you for all your help and sui

[Carmie]

3 minutes ago, Alan1234 said:

@Altostrata My doctor has agreed to prescribe me Zopliclone or Amitriptalyine for my sleep. He won’t prescribe Diazepam. I am going to take the Zopliclone. Do I need to stop the mirtazapine 1.75mg or should I taper ?

 
We messaged on here at the same time Alan😁, 

 

I’ll leave Alto to answer the question you tagged her in as I don’t know much about the meds you mentioned, but yes, you definitely have to taper slowly off the mirtazapine. 
 

Take care🤗

[Alan1234]

Just now, Carmie said:

 
We messaged on here at the same time Alan😁, 

 

I’ll leave Alto to answer the question you tagged her in as I don’t know much about the meds you mentioned, but yes, you definitely have to taper slowly off the mirtazapine. 
 

Take care🤗

Yes the idiot psychiatrist told me to CT off it at 15mg and switch to paroxetine in March and everything has just got worse since then with new symptoms almost everyweek 

[Carmie]

3 minutes ago, Alan1234 said:

Hi Carmie

ive never heard of blue blocking light glasses I will look into them. Yes I have been decaf for over a year. Although I read that this is possibly more harmful because of the decaf process and the beneficial parts of the tea etc are lost. Unfortunately I’ve lost my job and have no income for acupuncture sessions. I go outside everyday in my back yard yes. I take magnesium that seemed to help a little at first as did melotonin but neither have any affect now. I will look at Faster EFT but most often the anxiety is so bad I can’t find a window where I’m upto the usual coping techniques like meditation, breathing and trying them just makes me worse. 
thank you for all your help and sui

The blue light blocking glasses help to get your circadium rhythms back to normal, that’s why it’s important to go out in the light first thing and put those glasses on in the evening. It might slowly regulate that again. 
 

Have you tried rooibus tea? It’s really nice and it’s naturally caffeine free.

Sugar and processed carbs can really hype you up too. I don’t eat anything like that as I’m on an autoimmune diet for an illness I have. The sweetest thing I have is some occasional fruit.

 

As the regards the FasterEFT, there are plenty of videos on YouTube. I have a friend who is a practitioner as well, though I just do it on my own too. I’ve kind of gotten out of the habit and I must start it up again. I always found it extremely beneficial.

 

7 minutes ago, Alan1234 said:

Yes the idiot psychiatrist told me to CT off it at 15mg and switch to paroxetine in March and everything has just got worse since then with new symptoms almost everyweek 

 

 

Yes, the psychiatrists don’t know anything about withdrawals and how swapping and changing meds can cause a lot of problems. They did the same to me and I ended up in the psych ward twice because of severe Akathisia caused by the medication. I was originally put on medication because of chronic pain, and what they did to me was worse than the pain. 
 

At the time I thought there was something terribly wrong with me mentally, but it was the medication. I was so glad when I found out it was the medication, but at the same time very annoyed at what they did to me. 
 

I can only taper by tiny amounts with long holds, otherwise I will get severe Akathisia again. It’s going to take me forever to get off these meds.
 

 We will get there in the end, it’s just a very slow process.

 

Again, I hope you find some relief for your insomnia🧡

[Altostrata]

On 10/3/2021 at 1:14 PM, Altostrata said:

Once you're taking diazepam, yes, I would stop the mirtazapine.

 

Same if you're taking zopiclone.

 

Do you still have itching? Are you still taking solifenacin? Have you tried dropping it to see if the itching stops?

 

If your allergy is to solifenacin and you discontinue it, you might be able to increase mirtazapine for sleep rather than start on zopiclone, which will have to be continued for a while so you can taper it. Did your doctor assure you he or she would do this?

[Alan1234]

10 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Same if you're taking zopiclone.

 

Do you still have itching? Are you still taking solifenacin? Have you tried dropping it to see if the itching stops?

 

If your allergy is to solifenacin and you discontinue it, you might be able to increase mirtazapine for sleep rather than start on zopiclone, which will have to be continued for a while so you can taper it. Did your doctor assure you he or she would do this?

Thank you so much for getting back to me. I stopped Solfenacin 3 days ago. 
 

The itching wasn’t as bad but I tried an updose of Mirtazapine to 3.75mg 2 days ago and my neck was itching and I had quite bad restless legs which is why I had to stop the 30mg of it. Immediately when I was put up to 30mg from 15mg it gave me restless legs in Nov/Dec 2020. The sedative affect also rebounded and didn’t work when I went back down to 15mg then. 
I have a feeling I am developing over sensitivity to many things so it’s hard to ascertain if it was the Solfenacin or the mirtazapine. I feel like it was the combination but then a small increase in Mirt also caused it. The Solfenacin half life will probably mean it is still in my system. 
 

The Doctor is clueless around withdrawal and medications but  it he has referred me to a sleep clinic. I know it’s the withdrawal causing insomnia. When I first started taking Venlafaxine it caused apnea’s and when I was doing a short taper they started again. They only stopped around June of this year. No it’s like my body is in high alert and won’t let me drift to a deep sleep.

The  Doctor said to try Zopliclone 3.75mg (low dose) or low dose Amitriptayline 10/20mg. He didn’t assure me explicitly how long he would prescribe them for but suggested he would prescribe half the normal dose a month at a time as a trial. 
 

So i just have to make good decisions and what think best to give me some stability 

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Alan1234 said:

The Solfenacin half life will probably mean it is still in my system. 

 

This is correct. It will take at least 10 days for the solfenacin to completely leave your system. Until then, you may experience itching after you take mirtazapine because of the drug interaction, but it should progressively decrease as the solfenacin is metabolized.

 

It is unfortunate that you chose to increase mirtazapine before seeing the effect of removing solfenacin, because we cannot tell if your reaction was from increased mirtazapine or increased interaction with the remaining solfenacin.

 

If the itching after your mirtazapine dose does not decrease over the next week, stays the same, or increases, your allergy is to mirtazapine. If it decreases, it was to solfenacin. 

[Alan1234]

7 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

This is correct. It will take at least 10 days for the solfenacin to completely leave your system. Until then, you may experience itching after you take mirtazapine because of the drug interaction, but it should progressively decrease as the solfenacin is metabolized.

 

It is unfortunate that you chose to increase mirtazapine before seeing the effect of removing solfenacin, because we cannot tell if your reaction was from increased mirtazapine or increased interaction with the remaining solfenacin.

 

If the itching after your mirtazapine dose does not decrease over the next week, stays the same, or increases, your allergy is to mirtazapine. If it decreases, it was to solfenacin. 

Yes so then it seems sensible to hold off Zopliclone then for another week 

[Alan1234]

Just now, Alan1234 said:

Yes so then it seems sensible to hold off Zopliclone then for another week 

The mirtazapine isn’t helping me get any appreciable sleep anyway but it is the only way me In my system so I suppose an updose could also be considered after a week 

[Alan1234]

20 minutes ago, Alan1234 said:

The mirtazapine isn’t helping me get any appreciable sleep anyway but it is the only way me In my system so I suppose an updose could also be considered after a week 

I’ve also stopped the antibiotic oxytetracycline that I was prescribed Oct 7 for the Rosacea and perioral dermatitis. It made my tinnitus that started at the beginning of withdrawal significantly worse 

[Altostrata]

We are seeing that antibiotics may make withdrawal syndrome much worse.

 

Did you have the itching before you took oxytetracycline or did it start after? Please divulge any drugs you've added when you're reporting a change in symptom pattern.

[Alan1234]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

We are seeing that antibiotics may make withdrawal syndrome much worse.

 

Did you have the itching before you took oxytetracycline or did it start after? Please divulge any drugs you've added when you're reporting a change in symptom pattern.

The itching started much before I took the Oxytetracycline. I was itching last night and still this morning. Obviously the Solfenacin is still in my system but my haunch tells me it’s the mirtazapine. I’m obviously concerned about stopping this CT after a week of if it is the case. Depending on the severity of the itching I’m thinking I might have to taper 

[Faure]

I don’t know if this will be any help but I have Blepharitis which is inflammation of the eyelids. I think this is connected to the rosacea I also have. I have noticed that when I am good about looking after the blepharitis the rosacea subsides. Fortunately neither are too bad. So you might try some blepharitis care. I have an eye mask but you don’t need one. When I lost it for a bit I dampened a face flannel, microwaved it (as warm as I can comfortably bear it) and then put it in a plastic bag which replaces the need for an actual eye mask. I boil some water and put this in a mug for later.  Then I cover my eyes with the eye mask for 10 or so minutes (until it is cooled down). After that I massage the eyelids (the part near to the eye) and then use a clean cotton bud dipped in the hot water (previously boiled) to run round the inside of the bottom eyelids a few times and run across the outside of my upper eye lids. If you give this a go for a few weeks it might help with the calming the rosacea down. A friend says when he was googling he saw a side effect of mirtazepine is rosacea. 
 

So sorry you’re not getting any sleep. I know just how awful that is. I really hope things start calming down for you soon. 

[Alan1234]

4 hours ago, Faure said:

I don’t know if this will be any help but I have Blepharitis which is inflammation of the eyelids. I think this is connected to the rosacea I also have. I have noticed that when I am good about looking after the blepharitis the rosacea subsides. Fortunately neither are too bad. So you might try some blepharitis care. I have an eye mask but you don’t need one. When I lost it for a bit I dampened a face flannel, microwaved it (as warm as I can comfortably bear it) and then put it in a plastic bag which replaces the need for an actual eye mask. I boil some water and put this in a mug for later.  Then I cover my eyes with the eye mask for 10 or so minutes (until it is cooled down). After that I massage the eyelids (the part near to the eye) and then use a clean cotton bud dipped in the hot water (previously boiled) to run round the inside of the bottom eyelids a few times and run across the outside of my upper eye lids. If you give this a go for a few weeks it might help with the calming the rosacea down. A friend says when he was googling he saw a side effect of mirtazepine is rosacea. 
 

So sorry you’re not getting any sleep. I know just how awful that is. I really hope things start calming down for you soon. 

Thank you so much for your help.

yes the Rosacea has only started after taking mirtazapine so that’s strange 

[Altostrata]

Has the itching diminished, increased, or stayed the same since you stopped solfenacin 4 days ago?

[Alan1234]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Has the itching diminished, increased, or stayed the same since you stopped solfenacin 4 days ago?

I would say it’s generally diminished as I haven’t any whole body itching attacks as I developed. And my body isn’t red anymore. 

 

I’m still getting an itchy neck and face, but the face is from perioral dermatitis that the antibiotics were prescribed for. I’m just going to have to explore natural ways to help that suck as apple cider vinegar etc. I’m no Doctor but I’m sure it’s to do with histamine that these anti depressants seem to mess with. I just don’t know if it’s from mirtazapine as I’m only on 1.75mg and I withdrew off 3.75mg in June and Venlafaxine withdrawal was May2020 so seems abit delayed for that to be a cause? 
 

I have also realised that this was the third course of anti biotics in the space of 7wks. I developed a fever and a chest infection 7wks ago and it took 2 courses of other antibiotics to help lift it and my White blood cell count was still high two weeks ago. Upon reflection even though I wasn’t doing great before my insomnia was no where near as bad and my anxiety wasn’t as bad before all these antibiotics so I definitely think they have really upset my nervous system as this is the worse wave I’ve ever had since being in withdrawal and now all the skin problems too in top

[Altostrata]

It appears you were allergic to solfenacin.

[Alan1234]

2 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

It appears you were allergic to solfenacin.

Ok I guess the question is leave it a week let my system calm if I can. Then make a decision on mirtazapine and if I should try to updose for my sleep and overall withdrawal symptoms. I’m wondering if mirtazapine acts like an anti histamine and having relatively come off it being on such a low dose that my body is rebounding and being super sensitive to lots of things and without the mirtazapine acting as a strong anti histamine it’s being compounded.

 

In protected withdrawal is any progress generally improvement over time from the beginning? I do realise that it’s certainly not linear but the amount of new systems I’m getting is quite astounding 

[92sharks]

@Alan1234It sounds as if you are having a terrible time with wd and trying to figure out what is causing what in order to stabilize. I want to suggest that you do, take, make changes as little as possible so your body/CNS have some chance to recover. Each change can take days, weeks, months to settle. In the case of a possible allergic reaction to a drug you unfortunately have no recourse but to stop it immediately. But stop it and let your system adjust. Don't then make another change trying to fix the allergy symptoms or the increase in wd symptoms resulting from an allergic reaction. You have been on SO many medications. This is not your fault, but it is time to say probably no more for me right now. (In the case of antibiotics for some infections or some other medications for chronic conditions, I would never say no) However, it is pretty obvious your physician(s) are medication happy, which is what western medicine is. They don't always know what to do or what's going on, but they know there's another medication to try. Don't fall for this. Trying each one of those medications possibly slows down you getting to a place where your wd symptoms are tolerable. Do your research. Trust yourself, your intuition, and your body. IF you feel that you want to try something new, make and adjustment, etc, please ask Altrostrata before making a change. She will get back to you. Once you've updosed or added another drug or stopped a drug the damage to your CNS is already happening. I will admit that I haven't read your intro, so I may be saying things that you already know. But please understand that your CNS is affected by any medication, stress, illness, activity (good or bad), exercise, visit to the store, alcoholic drink, caffeinated drink, good or bad night's sleep, etc, etc, etc. We have all been struggling with wd symptoms and the tragic effects they have on our lives, plus the necessary painfully slow taper process. There is no good way to get off of these meds except to realize if you want to be able to live "comfortably" and get off of the meds, you make minuscule changes infrequently. You ride the waves, read, learn, practice many self-care activities, ask questions and get support from SA, give support to others, and protect your CNS. You wait and wait and wait. You get to a point you can almost forget the wd symptoms and you wait some more. Then maybe you try a very small decrease in your dose. Tapering should be in the background of the life you're living. I don't know how you survived CTing Venlafaxine from 18.5mg. And yes, that is when your wd symptoms began. That is drug I'm tapering. I CT'd Venlafaxine 12 years ago from 37.5 and it was hell until I reinstated it. I've tried again, tapering for the past 3 years.  Venlafaxine, along with these other ADs & Benzos, etc are horrible to get off of. Don't try to "fix" all of your symptoms in a week's time and don't fix them with updosing or additional drugs without instructions or advice from Altostrata. Slow it way down. The moderators do know what they are talking about. They will give you the best, most common sense, and experienced advice they know. Thrust their experience. I am not a medical doctor and would never encourage one to avoid medications necessary to correct medical conditions. Do you practice self-care activities? Sending support and best thoughts. 

[Alan1234]

44 minutes ago, 92sharks said:

@Alan1234It sounds as if you are having a terrible time with wd and trying to figure out what is causing what in order to stabilize. I want to suggest that you do, take, make changes as little as possible so your body/CNS have some chance to recover. Each change can take days, weeks, months to settle. In the case of a possible allergic reaction to a drug you unfortunately have no recourse but to stop it immediately. But stop it and let your system adjust. Don't then make another change trying to fix the allergy symptoms or the increase in wd symptoms resulting from an allergic reaction. You have been on SO many medications. This is not your fault, but it is time to say probably no more for me right now. (In the case of antibiotics for some infections or some other medications for chronic conditions, I would never say no) However, it is pretty obvious your physician(s) are medication happy, which is what western medicine is. They don't always know what to do or what's going on, but they know there's another medication to try. Don't fall for this. Trying each one of those medications possibly slows down you getting to a place where your wd symptoms are tolerable. Do your research. Trust yourself, your intuition, and your body. IF you feel that you want to try something new, make and adjustment, etc, please ask Altrostrata before making a change. She will get back to you. Once you've updosed or added another drug or stopped a drug the damage to your CNS is already happening. I will admit that I haven't read your intro, so I may be saying things that you already know. But please understand that your CNS is affected by any medication, stress, illness, activity (good or bad), exercise, visit to the store, alcoholic drink, caffeinated drink, good or bad night's sleep, etc, etc, etc. We have all been struggling with wd symptoms and the tragic effects they have on our lives, plus the necessary painfully slow taper process. There is no good way to get off of these meds except to realize if you want to be able to live "comfortably" and get off of the meds, you make minuscule changes infrequently. You ride the waves, read, learn, practice many self-care activities, ask questions and get support from SA, give support to others, and protect your CNS. You wait and wait and wait. You get to a point you can almost forget the wd symptoms and you wait some more. Then maybe you try a very small decrease in your dose. Tapering should be in the background of the life you're living. I don't know how you survived CTing Venlafaxine from 18.5mg. And yes, that is when your wd symptoms began. That is drug I'm tapering. I CT'd Venlafaxine 12 years ago from 37.5 and it was hell until I reinstated it. I've tried again, tapering for the past 3 years.  Venlafaxine, along with these other ADs & Benzos, etc are horrible to get off of. Don't try to "fix" all of your symptoms in a week's time and don't fix them with updosing or additional drugs without instructions or advice from Altostrata. Slow it way down. The moderators do know what they are talking about. They will give you the best, most common sense, and experienced advice they know. Thrust their experience. I am not a medical doctor and would never encourage one to avoid medications necessary to correct medical conditions. Do you practice self-care activities? Sending support and best thoughts. 

@92sharks thank you for taking so much time to write a such well thought out and detailed great advice to me. I know everything you have said is 100% true. 
im so angry right now what these drugs have done to me and what I have lost and if i will ever get any of the those things or my family back. My anger is because I knew no different and never thought the Venlafaxine was the cause of my bladder trouble until a Urologist told me. Then the fact these absolute imbeciles told me to taper off so quickly then a psychiatrist telling me to CT another drug is beyond belief for me. For everything I have lost I really wish I had the resources to try and sue these people and also bring it to mainstream media attention for I would never wish anyone to go through what I have and i am going through. I trusted these Doctors and had no reason not to trust them and in good faith assumed that those that so called specialise in this area would not be upto date In best practice and not inform me or know the dangers of too fast taper/CT certainly after leaving me on these drugs for so long without review. I’m absolutely staggered that with little effort that all the research and information is easily found online yet it isn’t criminal what they have done to me and quite possibly many others day after day that have the unfortunate experience of having these same doctors. 
 

im so sorry to go in so much. I’m so grateful for everyone on here as truly no one else understands including family. When you lose you wife, have to leave you daughter they then loose your family home and finally my job it’s the hardest thing in the world to experience on top of the constant feelings of severe anxiety and insomnia. 
 

my main aim somehow is to prevent this ever happening to anyone again. I have absolutely no idea how to achieve this but I would like to start to highlight this somehow in the media as it really is inexplicable practice. 

[92sharks]

@Alan1234I think your anger is justified and rightly placed. And I would so much rather see you angry than dejected. To me anger has a purpose and hope attached. For now, I think the best way to use your anger is to use it to productively for your betterment. When I think back of how I felt when I was in wd 12 years ago and I didn't have SA, I didn't feel like I could breathe, much less do anything to get better. I woke up every morning and cried because it was another day of suffering. We bought a treadmill so I could "exercise" and get better. I would almost crawl to it and drape myself over the front, crying because it was was so hard to do. I would cry when taking a bath because it was so hard and everything hurt. It was absolute hell. I was so fortunate to have had a supportive husband and children. They didn't really understand, and my husband wasn't always supportive, but I had a place to live and I didn't have to work. Like you, there would have been no way for me to hold down a job. This attempt off of Venlafaxine has been a vacation in comparison. I did go back and read most of your pages and actually had read much of it before. You have not been as fortunate as me with your family. I'm so very sorry. But there is a future that will prove differently than your current situation. There is hope, even if you are not able to feel it today. In all honesty, I do think there has been improvement in you from just a couple of weeks ago. I am not minimizing any of your difficulties, symptoms, or your desperation over the last few months. I and all of the others posting believe you and we know how badly you've been feeling because we've had many of those same symptoms. I think your sleep deprivation is your worst issue as it interferes with all of our body systems. Also, according to a google search it can cause your Gilbert's Syndrome to worsen its symptoms. The self-care things that are easiest for me or the ones that take the least energy and fighting with myself are silent meditation (5-10 min), acupuncture, resting, a weighted blanket, and journaling. Consistently doing these things has shown me that the results are cumulative. I read you said meditation makes your anxiety worse. What type of meditation are you doing? My meditation is kind of ridiculous, but it has truly helped my anxious brain. I can only do 10 minutes. My brain is continually throwing in thoughts to distract me, but I just refocus on my relaxed breathing in and out until the next thought interrupts (usually 1-2 seconds) and I refocus again. But I am working/retraining the entire time, which is not exactly what meditation is for; but retraining or refocusing my thoughts is what is working for me at this moment. Guided meditations are not my thing at the moment because I don't have a big need for them to relax. But I have benefitted from them in the past. Whatever I am doing, including walking on the treadmill for 20 min 3-4x week is helping. I still get lots and lots of anxiety, but I notice I recover from it. It clears up within a few minutes instead of crippling me for the entire day. I am certain acupuncture is helping me, as well. I saw you do not have the finances for acupuncture at this time. I can certainly understand this. I am also talking more with my husband. Talking is so beneficial for me. If there is any way you could talk with a therapist or friend to get some of your over active thoughts out of your mind may help. I know that it could be difficult to do that with limited resources. Journaling can be helpful in the absence of a live person; just getting all of those thoughts out of your head and organized into sentences can be freeing. Use your voice to ask for what you need. You are important. If any of the self-care activities are too hard to think of doing them, I understand. I've been that fatigued before. I had to just decide to do one for a few days in a row, then another one without feeling any ounce of motivation. Enough from me. I'm so glad you are here on earth and on SA, Alan.

[Alan1234]

2 minutes ago, 92sharks said:

@Alan1234I think your anger is justified and rightly placed. And I would so much rather see you angry than dejected. To me anger has a purpose and hope attached. For now, I think the best way to use your anger is to use it to productively for your betterment. When I think back of how I felt when I was in wd 12 years ago and I didn't have SA, I didn't feel like I could breathe, much less do anything to get better. I woke up every morning and cried because it was another day of suffering. We bought a treadmill so I could "exercise" and get better. I would almost crawl to it and drape myself over the front, crying because it was was so hard to do. I would cry when taking a bath because it was so hard and everything hurt. It was absolute hell. I was so fortunate to have had a supportive husband and children. They didn't really understand, and my husband wasn't always supportive, but I had a place to live and I didn't have to work. Like you, there would have been no way for me to hold down a job. This attempt off of Venlafaxine has been a vacation in comparison. I did go back and read most of your pages and actually had read much of it before. You have not been as fortunate as me with your family. I'm so very sorry. But there is a future that will prove differently than your current situation. There is hope, even if you are not able to feel it today. In all honesty, I do think there has been improvement in you from just a couple of weeks ago. I am not minimizing any of your difficulties, symptoms, or your desperation over the last few months. I and all of the others posting believe you and we know how badly you've been feeling because we've had many of those same symptoms. I think your sleep deprivation is your worst issue as it interferes with all of our body systems. Also, according to a google search it can cause your Gilbert's Syndrome to worsen its symptoms. The self-care things that are easiest for me or the ones that take the least energy and fighting with myself are silent meditation (5-10 min), acupuncture, resting, a weighted blanket, and journaling. Consistently doing these things has shown me that the results are cumulative. I read you said meditation makes your anxiety worse. What type of meditation are you doing? My meditation is kind of ridiculous, but it has truly helped my anxious brain. I can only do 10 minutes. My brain is continually throwing in thoughts to distract me, but I just refocus on my relaxed breathing in and out until the next thought interrupts (usually 1-2 seconds) and I refocus again. But I am working/retraining the entire time, which is not exactly what meditation is for; but retraining or refocusing my thoughts is what is working for me at this moment. Guided meditations are not my thing at the moment because I don't have a big need for them to relax. But I have benefitted from them in the past. Whatever I am doing, including walking on the treadmill for 20 min 3-4x week is helping. I still get lots and lots of anxiety, but I notice I recover from it. It clears up within a few minutes instead of crippling me for the entire day. I am certain acupuncture is helping me, as well. I saw you do not have the finances for acupuncture at this time. I can certainly understand this. I am also talking more with my husband. Talking is so beneficial for me. If there is any way you could talk with a therapist or friend to get some of your over active thoughts out of your mind may help. I know that it could be difficult to do that with limited resources. Journaling can be helpful in the absence of a live person; just getting all of those thoughts out of your head and organized into sentences can be freeing. Use your voice to ask for what you need. You are important. If any of the self-care activities are too hard to think of doing them, I understand. I've been that fatigued before. I had to just decide to do one for a few days in a row, then another one without feeling any ounce of motivation. Enough from me. I'm so glad you are here on earth and on SA, Alan.

@92sharks god bless you. Thank you so much for your messages. They have lifted my spirits so much today more than I thought possible or could imagine. This is a gift I am truly thankful for and it fills me with hope that somebody has taken so much of their time and given me so much with their great advice. It really has lifted me and given me hope. 
 

Last year and even until May if this year I was able to continue and exercise quite well on many days. Obviously more recently I have been very bad so I have been unable to get out of the house some days unfortunately. Strangely and more frustratingly physically I’ve progressively got worse and worse even though mentally other than the anxiety i have probably improved. I think exercise has stressed my nervous system too much which I tried to do too much earlier in the year and I am paying for it now. I notice even after gentle 20mins on a exercise bike that I never sleep when I have attempted this only 2 days per week. On the other days when not going on the bike I can more likely get a couple of hours or sometimes more. So I have had to cut the bike to once a week and the same thing seems to happen. I think over exercising earlier in the year now I reflect back was the cause of my VT and my heart scares. 
 

In terms of meditation I have tried all the apps, headspace and balance. I like them at first but I get frustrated because after daily use I can predict what the narrator is going to say before he says it and I find my mind then gets occupied wishing for him to hurry up and say it then I just wish the session to be over. The other problem with it is the breathe work such is my anxiety and background high Heartrate/respiratory rate from the withdrawal that I simply cant exhale and breathe at the slower rates the meditations and a lot of breathing techniques suggest. If I try and do it and force myself for as many breaths as I can. I very quickly get a rebound breathlessness like almost drowning feeling. I realise it’s just the anxiety. When I’m having a better time In the day I will revisit it and work within my limits and say do a 3sec inhale, 3 sec hold and aim for a 3/5sec exhale. This is about my limit when I’m having a mini window or less anxious in the day. I guess it’s learning to accept this and just doing what I can. It’s just really hard as my whole previous identity paradoxically was based on being very fit for my age, even much fitter than most old work colleagues who were 25yrs younger and that’s bearing in mind I worked within professional sport. The ego though has no place in withdrawal which I have found to my peril. Not that i was a bid person before by any means but all I can do now is work at myself in hopefully becoming a better person and find meaning in all this so somehow I can help others. 
 

I hope you start to feel better and your messages have meant so much thank you from the bottom of my heart