Alan1234: desperately seeking help

[92sharks]

@Alan1234Thank YOU for making my day! I feel like I have some experience and knowledge to offer. One can take it or leave it. I struggle with my 24 yr old because she actively and verbally chooses to leave it! 😂🤷🏼‍♀️ (I can understand, and I am learning, although very slowly, that unsolicited concerns and thoughts are not appreciated!) I only wanted to comment that I found too much exercise is also triggering of wd symptoms. I think what I have learned recently during wd is less is better. Whatever you can do, make it gentle. For me personally, 20 min on an exercise bike is too much. At the moment I am just trying to form the habit and not do anything but increase my metabolism possibly. I'm not even trying to induce a sweat because that was too much. 🥴 If the bike is too much, a gentle walk outside might work. One self-care thing I haven't tried is epsom salt baths. Some on SA say they are helpful to them. I look for self-care things to do that don't require a lot of effort or a lot of fighting with myself to do as fatigue and anhedonia are two symptoms I struggle with when in a wave.  I will say that I don't do any type of breathing exercises when I meditate. I didn't think I could do meditation. But it is actually quite simple. I found a site that said begin with 5-10 minutes and she talked about how much her mind wandered, and she was constantly having to refocus. What I think I figured out is to just do what you can. It doesn't have to be right or perfect. In fact it can be very messy and still provide benefits. I set a timer for 10 minutes. All I do is sit (been know to lay down, too) and just envision my normal breath going in and out through my nose. I concentrate on my normal breathing just as a place for my brain to focus on. Sometimes I focus on my abdomen rising up and down. And the location changes often during the 10 minutes. I try to focus on a spot in my line of vision with my eyes closed and just try to stay focused on my breathing. My monkey brain pulls in all kinds of thoughts constantly. I try to use the 10 minutes to refocus my concentration back on my regular relaxed breathing and the "spot", and not sit there and "think".  I don't go into a trance, and my mind certainly doesn't go blank! I don't work on anything other than recognizing how rapidly a random thought or conversation enters my focus and tell it "nope, not right now" and refocus on my breathing until the next thought occurs. I don't know whether this is meditation. I think it is trying to meditate. But I noticed after a few days while NOT meditating I could think of other things or had a more relaxed brain than running away with whatever thought randomly occurred. I wasn't continually following that thought to the end. It has helped a lot with ruminating, too. I attribute these improvements to the "meditation" I was doing. Again, we are all different. If you feel like it, set a timer, try sitting, breathing normally for you, and refocusing if your mind wanders for 2 minutes, or 3 minutes, or 5. I recommend the timer, otherwise I would be focusing on how many minutes I had remaining. As I've meditated longer, the minutes are not as tedious and the time is more enjoyable. I completely understand being irritated with guided meditations. As I said, I avoid them right now because I think they would annoy me, too. There is a person on SA that I enjoyed reading his posts. He was tapering off of Lexapro, I believe and has been off for a couple of years. I don't know if you would find his story interesting or triggering, but I thought of him (not sure why) as I read your recent post to me about your history of athleticism. If you're interested I will give you his name.  

[Altostrata]

Thanks very much for those excellent responses to Alan, @92sharks

 

4 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

Ok I guess the question is leave it a week let my system calm if I can. Then make a decision on mirtazapine and if I should try to updose for my sleep and overall withdrawal symptoms.

 

That is correct. We also need to verify that the itching continues to go away. There is a possibility you became allergic to both drugs.

 

I cannot say what to do about your other symptoms, some may be drug-related and some not. You know the histamine bucket theory? It says your body tolerates only so much allergic reaction, then it can't handle the excess histamine your body is creating. The histamine overflow causes other health problems, such as your skin reactions.

 

Anything you can do to reduce histamine can help empty the bucket to a level your body can tolerate. For example, you also might want to go on a histamine intolerance diet, in case you have become sensitive to the histamine in foods. See

 

Elimination or exclusion diets for reactions to food (food intolerance)

 

Histamine intolerance

[Rosetta]

Hi, Alan.  I’m back from my trip.  Just checking in on you.  You are struggling, I see, with reactions to drugs — antibiotics, etc.  Most of us go through something the same or similar after prolonged withdrawal sets in.  I hope you feel better soon!

 

Rosetta

[92sharks]

@AltostrataThank you so much. It is my pleasure to help. I've been helped so much by you and others on SA. ❤️

[Alan1234]

8 hours ago, 92sharks said:

@Alan1234Thank YOU for making my day! I feel like I have some experience and knowledge to offer. One can take it or leave it. I struggle with my 24 yr old because she actively and verbally chooses to leave it! 😂🤷🏼‍♀️ (I can understand, and I am learning, although very slowly, that unsolicited concerns and thoughts are not appreciated!) I only wanted to comment that I found too much exercise is also triggering of wd symptoms. I think what I have learned recently during wd is less is better. Whatever you can do, make it gentle. For me personally, 20 min on an exercise bike is too much. At the moment I am just trying to form the habit and not do anything but increase my metabolism possibly. I'm not even trying to induce a sweat because that was too much. 🥴 If the bike is too much, a gentle walk outside might work. One self-care thing I haven't tried is epsom salt baths. Some on SA say they are helpful to them. I look for self-care things to do that don't require a lot of effort or a lot of fighting with myself to do as fatigue and anhedonia are two symptoms I struggle with when in a wave.  I will say that I don't do any type of breathing exercises when I meditate. I didn't think I could do meditation. But it is actually quite simple. I found a site that said begin with 5-10 minutes and she talked about how much her mind wandered, and she was constantly having to refocus. What I think I figured out is to just do what you can. It doesn't have to be right or perfect. In fact it can be very messy and still provide benefits. I set a timer for 10 minutes. All I do is sit (been know to lay down, too) and just envision my normal breath going in and out through my nose. I concentrate on my normal breathing just as a place for my brain to focus on. Sometimes I focus on my abdomen rising up and down. And the location changes often during the 10 minutes. I try to focus on a spot in my line of vision with my eyes closed and just try to stay focused on my breathing. My monkey brain pulls in all kinds of thoughts constantly. I try to use the 10 minutes to refocus my concentration back on my regular relaxed breathing and the "spot", and not sit there and "think".  I don't go into a trance, and my mind certainly doesn't go blank! I don't work on anything other than recognizing how rapidly a random thought or conversation enters my focus and tell it "nope, not right now" and refocus on my breathing until the next thought occurs. I don't know whether this is meditation. I think it is trying to meditate. But I noticed after a few days while NOT meditating I could think of other things or had a more relaxed brain than running away with whatever thought randomly occurred. I wasn't continually following that thought to the end. It has helped a lot with ruminating, too. I attribute these improvements to the "meditation" I was doing. Again, we are all different. If you feel like it, set a timer, try sitting, breathing normally for you, and refocusing if your mind wanders for 2 minutes, or 3 minutes, or 5. I recommend the timer, otherwise I would be focusing on how many minutes I had remaining. As I've meditated longer, the minutes are not as tedious and the time is more enjoyable. I completely understand being irritated with guided meditations. As I said, I avoid them right now because I think they would annoy me, too. There is a person on SA that I enjoyed reading his posts. He was tapering off of Lexapro, I believe and has been off for a couple of years. I don't know if you would find his story interesting or triggering, but I thought of him (not sure why) as I read your recent post to me about your history of athleticism. If you're interested I will give you his name.  

@92sharks yes i identify with your meditation experiences. 
I am interested in his story so if you could find his name that would be great. Thank you 

[Alan1234]

5 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Hi, Alan.  I’m back from my trip.  Just checking in on you.  You are struggling, I see, with reactions to drugs — antibiotics, etc.  Most of us go through something the same or similar after prolonged withdrawal sets in.  I hope you feel better soon!

 

Rosetta

I hope you had a nice trip. 
the frustrating thing is the physical symptoms have just got worse which for some reason i expected they would slowly improve 

[Alan1234]

12 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Hi, Alan.  I’m back from my trip.  Just checking in on you.  You are struggling, I see, with reactions to drugs — antibiotics, etc.  Most of us go through something the same or similar after prolonged withdrawal sets in.  I hope you feel better soon!

 

Rosetta

I hope you had a nice trip. 
the frustrating thing is the physical symptoms have just got worse which for some reason i expected they would slowly improve 

[Alan1234]

I’m really grateful today for everyone’s support on here I really don’t know where I would be without it.

 

just another complaint though again today and feeling hopeless.

 

my rosacea has really flared up today and is quite sore on my face. I think it’s because I had to stop taking the antibiotics. I also don’t know if the mirtazapine is making it worse because it burns a lot and feels itchy. 
 

however I found an old photograph of myself from March 2020 just shortly before I finished my too fast taper from venlafaxine and the start of my conscious withdrawal experience. When I look closely on the photo I can see early signs of Rosacea even then which I never noticed or realised I had even then. So like my bladder I think the damage from Venlafaxine was silently bubbling away under the surface. 
 

im going to have to go back to my doctor and see if there’s anything other than oral antibiotics I can try for it. It seems all the latest withdrawal symptoms that have been getting worse has just made it a real problem for me for the first time. 
 

I suppose all I can do is pray and have patience. It’s hard because the mental affects and symptoms of withdrawal we can try to hide and probably can hide many of them from strangers but now this on my face I feel like it make me feel worse because people will stare at it, it’s like a warning and a sign of my overall health and it looks awful. 

[Faure]

18 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

In terms of meditation I have tried all the apps, headspace and balance. I like them at first but I get frustrated because after daily use I can predict what the narrator is going to say before he says it and I find my mind then gets occupied wishing for him to hurry up and say it then I just wish the session to be over.

Hi Alan, what wonderful words from 92Sharks ☺️ You probably already know this, but when you start having impatient thoughts in meditation all you have to do is notice them and return to your breath. Nothing else.

I have been doing this body scan almost daily since lockdown 1 in the uk. About a year after I started, I noticed him saying something like notice how your right foot feels, don’t worry how you think it should feel, just be with it how it is feeling - I had a huge realisation - after a year of hearing this (!) that I could do this with how I was feeling emotionally.  I’ve been very fatigued because of the mirtazepine and it has been a huge frustration and led to worry when I get very tired of a relapse / will I feel this tired for ever / etc etc. Once I realised I could apply the noticing to how my emotions were, and not just my foot it was a big breakthrough!  I was able to tell myself I’m having ‘my usual tired / catastrophic thoughts’ and not get drawn into worrying about them!  This is the easiest meditation I have found and it doesn’t manipulate your breath, just invites you to breathe into whatever body part he’s on. I know it’s super hard to meditate when you’re in such a state so maybe you might not want to try it at the moment, but do think about it for another time☺️
 

Hang on in there ☺️

[Alan1234]

2 minutes ago, Faure said:

Hi Alan, what wonderful words from 92Sharks ☺️ You probably already know this, but when you start having impatient thoughts in meditation all you have to do is notice them and return to your breath. Nothing else.

I have been doing this body scan almost daily since lockdown 1 in the uk. About a year after I started, I noticed him saying something like notice how your right foot feels, don’t worry how you think it should feel, just be with it how it is feeling - I had a huge realisation - after a year of hearing this (!) that I could do this with how I was feeling emotionally.  I’ve been very fatigued because of the mirtazepine and it has been a huge frustration and led to worry when I get very tired of a relapse / will I feel this tired for ever / etc etc. Once I realised I could apply the noticing to how my emotions were, and not just my foot it was a big breakthrough!  I was able to tell myself I’m having ‘my usual tired / catastrophic thoughts’ and not get drawn into worrying about them!  This is the easiest meditation I have found and it doesn’t manipulate your breath, just invites you to breathe into whatever body part he’s on. I know it’s super hard to meditate when you’re in such a state so maybe you might not want to try it at the moment, but do think about it for another time☺️
 

Hang on in there ☺️

Thanks that’s great advice I will look at it over the next few days.

 

im just so angry. My Venlafaxine withdrawal hit me in 2020 I didn’t know what it was. Eventually I was stabilised on mirtazapine then the psychiatrist told me to CT and switch to Paroxetine which didn’t work for a week in March 2021 it gave me Akathisia. Ever since March I’m getting constant fatigue and nerve pains and weakness on top of the anxiety from the first withdrawal. I can’t believe I never knew about this stuff and trusted Doctors. Until March I felt relatively not too bad for withdrawal but to do it to my body twice it’s really produced some damage. I can’t believe it I really can’t understand what I have done to deserve this for me or my family 

[Alan1234]

I read success stories off people on multiple high dose anti psychotic drugs for 10/15 years who appear to have less symptoms from there story and make miraculous recoveries. Surely those drugs are worse then anti depressants to recover from I just wonder how they have managed it. Their stories never seem to talk about the same withdrawal as stories from anti depressants 

[Faure]

59 minutes ago, Alan1234 said:

im just so angry. My Venlafaxine withdrawal hit me in 2020 I didn’t know what it was. Eventually I was stabilised on mirtazapine then the psychiatrist told me to CT and switch to Paroxetine which didn’t work for a week in March 2021 it gave me Akathisia. Ever since March I’m getting constant fatigue and nerve pains and weakness on top of the anxiety from the first withdrawal. I can’t believe I never knew about this stuff and trusted Doctors.

I agree. It is appalling that doctors don’t know any better. When I wanted to withdraw from mirtazepine I spoke to my GP earlier this year for advice (you know, just in case he had anything useful!) he suggested skipping days.  This was 18 months after he first met me when i was in a bad state because I’d tried to come off by - guess what -  skipping days!! When I told him about that he told me ‘you’re in a better place now’ well, I was in a good place last time before I skipped days. Fortunately I already knew all about this site having found it when WD hit the first time, so got advice here before I started.
 

Are you journaling about your anger? 92sharks suggested this and I totally agree it is a great, free tool to use to work thorough emotions. You have a lot to be angry about it. Write it down, rant and rave, don’t worry about punctuation or anything else. Just get it out of you. It helps. I used this a lot when I was working through some very difficult issues a few years ago. I still use it if I need to now. You will probably need to do it lots, repeating yourself again and again while you get it all out of you. 
 

Maybe eventually, when you’re feeling better you can do something constructive with the anger and raise awareness. But that’s for the future. 

[Alan1234]

35 minutes ago, Faure said:

I agree. It is appalling that doctors don’t know any better. When I wanted to withdraw from mirtazepine I spoke to my GP earlier this year for advice (you know, just in case he had anything useful!) he suggested skipping days.  This was 18 months after he first met me when i was in a bad state because I’d tried to come off by - guess what -  skipping days!! When I told him about that he told me ‘you’re in a better place now’ well, I was in a good place last time before I skipped days. Fortunately I already knew all about this site having found it when WD hit the first time, so got advice here before I started.
 

Are you journaling about your anger? 92sharks suggested this and I totally agree it is a great, free tool to use to work thorough emotions. You have a lot to be angry about it. Write it down, rant and rave, don’t worry about punctuation or anything else. Just get it out of you. It helps. I used this a lot when I was working through some very difficult issues a few years ago. I still use it if I need to now. You will probably need to do it lots, repeating yourself again and again while you get it all out of you. 
 

Maybe eventually, when you’re feeling better you can do something constructive with the anger and raise awareness. But that’s for the future. 

Yes that’s great advice. I literally can’t get my head around all the physical symptoms the weakness, the constant nerve pains, fatigue. I wouldn’t believe it if it wasn’t happening to me that it is even possible. But now I know from this website and how badly I’ve withdrawn twice after so long on these meds. I literally don’t know if it’s even possible to recover because for some reason the symptoms are getting worse since March particularly after this second withdrawal. I didn’t have them after the first not the nerve pains or weakness and fatigue. I don’t know if they’ve created a physical dependance through the physiological changes the drugs must have made. I wasn’t even on the high doses. At my age I’m not sure I can recover if I continue to get worse I might have to consider reinstatement. I’m sorry I shouldn’t talk like this to you In your own recovery or if other people are reading this. I should perhaps take a break from the site and I need to help myself more and put into practice the advice I’m given.

 

im sorry thank you for your messages.

I hope your ok and if you want to know anything or have any questions that might help you even though I’m not doing great please don’t hesitate to reach out  

[92sharks]

@Alan1234Stop beating up yourself. It is clear in your posts that your anxiety is all consuming, as are your physical symptoms. And you want answers and reasons. You seem like you still want to take meds to fix things. Maybe you're correct. Maybe you're not. We don't know. You don't know. We know you feel absolutely horrible. You think you should be getting better yet you are continuing to have more symptoms. It isn't unusual for one to have concurrent medical issues independently of wd. But what you chose to accept for treatment for these issues may affect your wd symptoms. The treatments or medications may make your other wd symptoms worse, or prolong recovery. The hope is certainly that they won't. But anything you ingest, or any activity, or any illness, etc, etc will affect your CNS in some manner. You are in a very bad wave. These thoughts and the anxiety are wd symptoms. Any lack of confidence in your ability is a wd symptom. The hopelessness is a wd symptom. They feel very true and real, but they are wd symptoms. In the absence of answers, it might be beneficial to make a plan for tomorrow, a list of 2 self-care things to try over the next week. The fixes are going to be small and constantly practiced when you feel like you can. We want to help you to get better. For at least a few days try 1 or 2 new things. You don't have to do anything perfectly. Over time you will begin to think your needs and self-care is necessary, important, and beneficial. There is no quick fix here. Please don't stop posting unless you feel this site is too triggering right now. You do not have to give back to others until you feel like you are able. You will feel like it in the future. Right now you need things from us. Btw, I'm 64. I think many of us are older because so many of us have been on ADs for so many years, then have tried to get off, maybe multiple times.    

[92sharks]

@Alan1234 Iowan is the person I thought you should read. Larry S is also tapering Venlafaxine. He is 73.

[Alan1234]

22 hours ago, 92sharks said:

@Alan1234 Iowan is the person I thought you should read. Larry S is also tapering Venlafaxine. He is 73.

Thank you for this.

I hope you are doing good 

[Alan1234]

22 hours ago, 92sharks said:

@Alan1234Stop beating up yourself. It is clear in your posts that your anxiety is all consuming, as are your physical symptoms. And you want answers and reasons. You seem like you still want to take meds to fix things. Maybe you're correct. Maybe you're not. We don't know. You don't know. We know you feel absolutely horrible. You think you should be getting better yet you are continuing to have more symptoms. It isn't unusual for one to have concurrent medical issues independently of wd. But what you chose to accept for treatment for these issues may affect your wd symptoms. The treatments or medications may make your other wd symptoms worse, or prolong recovery. The hope is certainly that they won't. But anything you ingest, or any activity, or any illness, etc, etc will affect your CNS in some manner. You are in a very bad wave. These thoughts and the anxiety are wd symptoms. Any lack of confidence in your ability is a wd symptom. The hopelessness is a wd symptom. They feel very true and real, but they are wd symptoms. In the absence of answers, it might be beneficial to make a plan for tomorrow, a list of 2 self-care things to try over the next week. The fixes are going to be small and constantly practiced when you feel like you can. We want to help you to get better. For at least a few days try 1 or 2 new things. You don't have to do anything perfectly. Over time you will begin to think your needs and self-care is necessary, important, and beneficial. There is no quick fix here. Please don't stop posting unless you feel this site is too triggering right now. You do not have to give back to others until you feel like you are able. You will feel like it in the future. Right now you need things from us. Btw, I'm 64. I think many of us are older because so many of us have been on ADs for so many years, then have tried to get off, maybe multiple times.    

I have decided to do breath work just for 10mins every morning as soon as I get up. I am keeping a diary of it so it encourages me to stick with it and also so I can see my progress when I look back. I have also decided to start cold showers only for 1min to begin with daily. I’m not sure if it will be too much of a shock to my system, but I did them before for a few weeks in December 2020 and they seemed to help them. 
 

im going to try these two things daily at first. I also would like to spend some time with animals as I love animals so when I’m feeling anti better I will look into how I can do this. 
 

ive been to see my daughter today which took tremendous effort even though I really love seeing her. My ex wife was nice when she spoke to me. However she doesn’t know I’ve lost my job again. I couldn’t bring myself to tell her or talk about it as it would cause her much worry and myself also make me worse. I know this isn’t good not being honest,  but I couldn’t physically deal with it and don’t want to shame her and my daughter. Hopefully my     mind will be stronger soon and I will approach it then. I know it will cause a lot of stress coming upto Christmas etc. 
 

I have also been abit rash and hope I can physically follow it through. I asked my daughter to come on holiday  with me for a week. I will have to use all my savings but I feel I really need a massive boost from somewhere. All I did was cry all night last night. I need to accept but fight through this 

[Faure]

On 10/15/2021 at 7:59 PM, Alan1234 said:

I’m sorry I shouldn’t talk like this to you In your own recovery or if other people are reading this. I should perhaps take a break from the site and I need to help myself more and put into practice the advice I’m given.

Don’t go away, (unless it’s not helpful being here). That’s what the site is here for. I just learned that the drug you ct’d off (venlafaxine) is Effexor. This is horrendous to get off. No wonder you are in such a state.  Remember if it the site gets too much for people they don’t have to visit it. (I took a break yesterday ☺️)

 

15 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

have decided to do breath work just for 10mins every morning as soon as I get up. I am keeping a diary of it so it encourages me to stick with it and also so I can see my progress when I look back. I have also decided to start cold showers only for 1min to begin with daily.

Well done, you have a plan, no mean feat when you’re feeling as bad as you do right now. Be careful about the showers, doesn’t sound like a good idea in your current state. But if it helps great. 
 

Brassmonkey said this:

 

—————————————————————————-—————————————
 

“Trusting that your body knows what needs to be done to heal and will do it naturally is one of the hardest parts of doing this. The amount of trust that we have to have is amazing and the ability to accept what happens and move through it, even if it isn't what we had planned, is equally so. We have all been taught to think things  through and do what we think is best, but sometimes our logic gets the best of us. We can think too much and see too many sides of the coin.

 

To me ADWD is proof that nature is in control despite what we think. In most cases we have to get out of the way and let it happen. We may want a specific outcome by next weekend, but the choice isn't ours. If our body wants to heal in that direction by them it may happen, but usually it needs to do something else, which it knows is more important for the healing process. It doesn't really care what our weekend plans are, but rather knows what it needs to do to heal.

 

Giving up that control is very hard because we think about the problem toomuch”

 

————————————————————————————————————————-
 

It made me think I must share it with you ☺️ 

[Rosetta]

I’m thinking of you, Alan.  I’m glad you saw your daughter. —R

[Alan1234]

8 hours ago, Faure said:

Don’t go away, (unless it’s not helpful being here). That’s what the site is here for. I just learned that the drug you ct’d off (venlafaxine) is Effexor. This is horrendous to get off. No wonder you are in such a state.  Remember if it the site gets too much for people they don’t have to visit it. (I took a break yesterday ☺️)

 

Well done, you have a plan, no mean feat when you’re feeling as bad as you do right now. Be careful about the showers, doesn’t sound like a good idea in your current state. But if it helps great. 
 

Brassmonkey said this:

 

—————————————————————————-—————————————
 

 

“Trusting that your body knows what needs to be done to heal and will do it naturally is one of the hardest parts of doing this. The amount of trust that we have to have is amazing and the ability to accept what happens and move through it, even if it isn't what we had planned, is equally so. We have all been taught to think things  through and do what we think is best, but sometimes our logic gets the best of us. We can think too much and see too many sides of the coin.

 

To me ADWD is proof that nature is in control despite what we think. In most cases we have to get out of the way and let it happen. We may want a specific outcome by next weekend, but the choice isn't ours. If our body wants to heal in that direction by them it may happen, but usually it needs to do something else, which it knows is more important for the healing process. It doesn't really care what our weekend plans are, but rather knows what it needs to do to heal.

 

Giving up that control is very hard because we think about the problem toomuch”

 

————————————————————————————————————————-
 

It made me think I must share it with you ☺️ 

@Faure thank you for your support. I’ve had a really bad day today panic attacks constantly while walking in the park and can’t stop crying. But yesterday was better so can’t have it all ways. I think even though I love my daughter and want to see her, the stress of it all and my frustration with my life right now in meaning I can’t give her and provide for her right now has triggered me today 

[Alan1234]

7 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I’m thinking of you, Alan.  I’m glad you saw your daughter. —R

Thank you Rosetta. I loved seeing her but I’ve had one of my worse days ever today. I’ve been feeling suicidal. I think after I see her is a trigger to my whole reality and Situation. I need to learn to deal with this better somehow. I have planned to start a Alpha course a local church on Weds but I’m not sure I’m upto it and it’s a good idea. I just need to try and help myself more. I really want to be able to work and need some ideas of what I can do where I don’t make my anxiety and stress more and I don’t need to deal with people much. I was thinking gardening would be best, but it’s coming upto winter so will probably struggle to find anything like that. I really need to be able to give my daughter money like a normal dad so she doesn’t realise what’s happening to me.  

[92sharks]

@Alan1234The best advice I can give you is listen to yourself re: your last post. I don't know how old your daughter is. My youngest is 24 and I've had to back away from being the person I've been and want to be to her because she doesn't need me to be that person right now. It is heartbreaking for me, but healthy for both of us. I have to take care of myself (protect myself) from that stress and hurt for now. Independence and space is what we need. I know it will get better in the future and our relationship will be stronger. You are trying to be someone you're not able to be right now. I would simply suggest being yourself, being honest with her, and your wife. If your daughter is used to you buying her things, taking her on holiday, etc, and you can't provide that because of your health and finances, you're doing her a disservice to keep doing that. What you can do if it is possible at this time is be open and honest with her. Build a relationship of caring for one another when things aren't perfect. Relationships are built on sharing your inner self with others, not material items. You can teach her that. Many people and many children take up a LOT of emotional space. You probably do not have the capacity for that, but I know you don't want to push her away or make her feel like she's too much for you. You may want to think of some easier activities that you two can share together. Gentle, self-care type things. The things I am suggesting I don't think I could have done when I was in terrible wd years ago and some I wouldn't have been able to do in my most recent wave. Don't beat yourself up if you can't do any of them right now. Walks around the block, coloring (even adult coloring), reading the same book, watching a tv series together, card games, board games, learning to knit, learning a foreign language, baking something, cooking a single dish, figuring out things to do together that are easy & free. It could be that she could also learn some helpful activities that will help her with what she is experiencing emotionally with you not living with her. As with your own attempts at self-care, these attempts may be messy or imperfect or take a while to show any improvement. But you can show your daughter that when life throws curve balls it is possible to change things in beneficial ways. You need your money to take care of yourself. Again, I don't know how old she is and I don't know your financial situation or what you are responsible for re: your wife and daughter. I don't want to know. I just want to encourage you to take care of yourself and don't over-extend yourself emotionally and financially in unnecessary ways. 

[92sharks]

@Alan1234You said you love animals. Maybe look into fostering or volunteering at a shelter when you feel up to it. You also mentioned gardening. You could start one indoor herb. These things you could also do with your daughter. I will say that I absolutely hate it when someone suggests that I do something. I always think if I wanted to or felt like I could do any of these things I'd already be doing them. And I don't feel like doing a single one of them! So I understand completely if any one of these sounds like too much. Most of the activities requires you to care for someone or something other than yourself. It requires energy that you do not have. And not feeling like you can do anything is one of the most difficult symptoms of wd. It is heartbreaking. But you must remember that this IS wd, not you.  

[Alan1234]

1 minute ago, 92sharks said:

@Alan1234You said you love animals. Maybe look into fostering or volunteering at a shelter when you feel up to it. You also mentioned gardening. You could start one indoor herb. These things you could also do with your daughter. I will say that I absolutely hate it when someone suggests that I do something. I always think if I wanted to or felt like I could do any of these things I'd already be doing them. And I don't feel like doing a single one of them! So I understand completely if any one of these sounds like too much. Most of the activities requires you to care for someone or something other than yourself. It requires energy that you do not have. And not feeling like you can do anything is one of the most difficult symptoms of wd. It is heartbreaking. But you must remember that this IS wd, not you.  

I know your absolutely right.

I just need patience.

it’s all just hitting me.

I can’t watch TV it’s too activating or something all the colours and pictures changing make me feel funny. I’ve tried to watch it a hand full times over the last few months but last night I realised why I haven’t.

I can’t even do DIY, well I can but it really really raises my anxiety through the roof. It’s insane I’ve gone from being very very capable to almost anything sets me off. It’s a learning curve. I know I still need to expose my self to things or stuff is never going to get better. Thank you again for all your help. One day at a time, your right I can get much better at relationships. I know I’m not ready yet to volunteer with animals as emotionally I’m not strong enough. I would love to foster an animal but I don’t have my own place so I wouldn’t be able to do that. I could look into offering to dog walk so probably need to set my sites abit lower with everything.  

[Faure]

17 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

But yesterday was better

You had a window - that’s great. Do you keep a diary of your ups and downs so you can look at it and see that everything isn’t always all bad? It’s so easy to believe things are always bad when we’re in a wave. I had a massive one several months ago and was convinced I’d wasted a whole year achieving nothing (when in fact I’d achieved so much!). When we’re in a wave we believe it has always been that way and will always be so. A diary helps us remember it’s not. 
 

Just do little manageable things. Don’t try or expect to be able to do the things you used to. Eventually that will come. But that’s not now.  
 

[Alan1234]

I have been feeling suicidal the last couple of days. Can I try updosing mirtazapine? I feel very scared 

[Rosetta]

Hi, Alan.  You don’t yet have the confidence that the thoughts will pass.  That confidence will come eventually.  For now, remember that every time you make a change, there is the potential for more upset in your system.  I feel that unless you are having no good hours, you should be cautious about raising the dose.  
 

Could you track how often you feel suicidal?  You might see, on paper, that it comes and goes.  Of course, you know that.  Seeing it on a chart might help you build confidence.

 

Confidence is battered during certain states of mind caused by WD no matter how much evidence there is that we can make it through these times.  That’s just a fact.  Many, many times I went from feeling sure that I would heal to feeling completely despondent and suicidal in a matter of hours.  It’s so miserable.  The key is to find a way to distract through the bad times until you finally reach a level of healing that allows you to “see through” the downturns.  Then, even when you feel hopeless, you will know in your heart that it’s just one of WD’s lies.  
 

What can you do to distract?  I understand that you can’t watch tv.  Can you read? Can you listen to books on tape? Going for a walk every day whether you feel like it or not may not be very distracting at first, but it does wonders for us.  
 

I think that updosing is somewhat risky, but if you do so by only a tiny bit, it could be ok.  It’s just unlikely to make the kind of difference you are hoping.  That’s why I’m trying to direct you to find other ways to take your mind off of the suicidal feelings until they pass.  They always pass.  They come back again, and that’s really frustrating (to say the least).  Believe it or not, they are proof your brain is changing, and that’s a good thing.  You have to find a way to make the thoughts less disturbing, and taking your mind off of them is one way.

 

Learning something is a nice way to distract.  Is there anything you might try to learn.  You may not have much motivation, but once you start to learn just a bit that might encourage you to keep going.
 

 

[Faure]

On 10/15/2021 at 12:28 AM, Altostrata said:

On 10/14/2021 at 7:51 PM, Alan1234 said:

Ok I guess the question is leave it a week let my system calm if I can. Then make a decision on mirtazapine and if I should try to updose for my sleep and overall withdrawal symptoms.

 

That is correct. We also need to verify that the itching continues to go away. There is a possibility you became allergic to both drugs.

Hi Alan so sorry you are feeling suicidal. Do you remember you said on Friday you’d give it a week? Can you hang on? You had a better day on Saturday. Maybe seeing your family is too difficult at the moment and having some space might help?  Keeping a diary will help you see patterns.

 

I too find it very hard to watch tv sometimes when I’m feeling bad. I have though liked looking at images of nature. If you have Netflix, Moving Art is lovely, or maybe there is something on YouTube, or listening to ‘sleep’ playlists…if watching is too much. 

 

Did you manage to try the 10 mins of breathing? 
 

How is the itching?

 

 

[Faure]

https://www.letstalkwithdrawal.com/podcast/
 

Just found this podcast.  It probably isn’t to listen to at the moment but maybe for the future with your desire to do something to make a difference.

[Altostrata]

@Alan1234, what do you mean by "feeling suicidal"? What thoughts precede this?

[Alan1234]

I’m sorry everyone I can’t cope anymore 

 

unfortunately I couldn’t bear it so I took a 5mg Vortioxetine pill and a 7.5mg Zopliclone pill. I haven’t slept again. 
 

I have no idea what is wrong with me and why I have been getting worse not better. The insomnia for 13mths isn’t letting up the anxiety is getting so severe  I’m struggling to leave the house and now I’m feeling suicidal

 

i can’t see any improvement and literally I’m in no fit state anymore to know what’s best for me never mind have the mental capacity/insight  and strength to make rational decisions and to be able to stick with them

[Rosetta]

Alan, I’m so sorry this is happening to you.  Please call one of the hotlines.  Ok?  You said the zopiclone did not make you sleep? Did you feel anything from it?  If so, what did you feel?

[Alan1234]

5 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Alan, I’m so sorry this is happening to you.  Please call one of the hotlines.  Ok?  You said the zopiclone did not make you sleep? Did you feel anything from it?  If so, what did you feel?

Thank you. I’m so sorry that i

couldnt cope and did what i did. I did call the hotlines last night it helped me calm down. I have had a tiny window of less anxiety today and even managed to make a joke. Of course this might not be real and down to the tablet I took. I was really stupid and dumb but I’ve been getting very scared and I keep putting pressure on myself. The Zopliclone sent me to sleep for one and half hours. I was highly anxious and crying when I took it and I woke up extremely anxious. I was then like that all night from 1am and couldn’t get back to sleep. I tried lots of meditation type techniques such as breathing into it and listening to soothing music. They slightly decreased it for a handful of mins at a time but I still could not sleep. I’ve realised I couldnt stop myself ruminating and this is a constant problem for me atm. I realize that I’m in this cycle all day nearly everyday. I also am so forgetful and have thoughts to do a admin chore like an email then secs later I cannot remember what it is I wanted to do. I am going to write things down as a reminder. I have realised when I have a mini window that sitting here on my own all the time isn’t taking away or distraction me from the anxiety such is it’s strength. I’m generally too poorly at the moment to be able to manage to do things to distract myself unless it involves ruminants on the internet. I now realise that this is a big problem for me as Artificial Intelligence on websites are then constantly putting feeds up on my browser on topics  that are feeding all my fears and making me a whole lot worse. 
I have a medium term goal to hopefully find some sort of part time employment,  I think this would be more beneficial as a distraction from my anxiety. Ideally this would be in a role where I don’t have much pressure and have to deal with customers etc. I realize that this is pie in the sky and literally I could be having suicidal thoughts again in an hour but I need to find the strength to help myself and get through without setting myself up to fail. I realize this is what has happened with my normal job, and that i am quite a bit off as being stable or fit enough to work. I feel maybe the first step towards this would be to find some sort of social/church group. However im not upto meeting a whole group of strangers yet and where I live there isn’t anything yet because of Covid and the area is semi isolated. 
 

I hope your ok and thank you to everyone who has helped me over the last few days. 
 

although I don’t really want to go back on drugs at this minute and generally. I have to acknowledge that I’m very poorly and don’t want to continue the pattern of beating myself up about last night and beating myself up in general. I do think however I do need to try a updose of the mirtazapine as the sleep issue is truly horrendous and I do need some sort of crutch to help stabilise me. 
 

I will of course look at how I update my drug signature again. Sorry 😳 I simply can’t retain any information or remember how to do it or most things, even though you have told me how to do it on numerous occasions. I’m also trying no to get stressed about it, as I realize when  I have a small window that almost everything can trigger me 

[Alan1234]

On 10/19/2021 at 10:38 PM, Altostrata said:

@Alan1234, what do you mean by "feeling suicidal"? What thoughts precede this?

My thoughts are always centred around regrets about decisions I’ve made in the past meaning I’m not financially stable, not been able to help my daughters as I would wish. I have no finances/assets anything and about feeling inadequate and incapable of being well enough to be able to cope with ‘normal’ life to be able to give them money or help them get in the property ladder etc etc. I feel like I’m a failure to them and In life and they deserved better to be brought into this world with a father like me with mental health issues etc. 
I then ruminate of the present that although I’m relatively young i fear for how or when im well enough to change this situation. Im also listed for a double level lumbar fusion as I have a scoliosis that has caused my spine to degenerate quite young. I’ve obviously put this operation off as it’s a major surgery where I require both a ALIF and PLIF and im not any fit state to deal with it in the near future. I know rationally the anxiety I have over the financial things won’t help in any way but i feel suicidal because I have no income and im not entitled to any benefits at the moment as im still married to my wife and have to prove separation, I don’t know when im going to be realistically capable of working again and also knowing will need further substantial time off in the future to have a spinal surgery and again won’t have any income. They have told me this could be the potential cause of my bladder issue so if it keeps getting worse I will have no option but to have it done. I think more likely it’s my anxiety that is causing that. I’m just constantly scared and worried about the future and the above just overwhelms me constantly. I realise if I wasn’t in withdrawal I would be in a much better stronger place mentally to rationally deal with it.

[Alan1234]

On 10/19/2021 at 5:35 PM, Faure said:

Hi Alan so sorry you are feeling suicidal. Do you remember you said on Friday you’d give it a week? Can you hang on? You had a better day on Saturday. Maybe seeing your family is too difficult at the moment and having some space might help?  Keeping a diary will help you see patterns.

 

I too find it very hard to watch tv sometimes when I’m feeling bad. I have though liked looking at images of nature. If you have Netflix, Moving Art is lovely, or maybe there is something on YouTube, or listening to ‘sleep’ playlists…if watching is too much. 

 

Did you manage to try the 10 mins of breathing? 
 

How is the itching?

 

 

Hi Faure

Thank you for your kind support. I hope you are doing well?

 

I think your right about seeing my daughter/ex wife. Tbh they don’t know I’ve lost my job but I couldn’t face telling them as it will worry them financially. They must see me struggling as they are kindly inviting me down once every week or two. They just don’t realise how bad. I can’t tell them as that’s why I was asked to leave by them both in March. I don’t want to stress them or worry them anymore. I think that is stressing me massively and because they’ve never seen me so feeble and passive like this they must have an intuition that something is wrong. 
 

yes I’m doing the breathing mostly every morning.
 

the itching is lots lots better thank you. I’ve not had much other than the odd times but not full body or constant like before.
 

thank you again  

[Alan1234]

I was also thinking of taping my mouth up at night to see if that helps me sleep, obviously with a semi breathable tape. I thought it might stop me mouth breathing due to the anxiety and fight or flight I’m stuck in and help me nasal breathe and calm me down if I am able to tolerate it ?