Alan1234: desperately seeking help

[Alan1234]

On 12/5/2021 at 12:50 PM, Rosetta said:

Thinking of you, Alan.  Just do what you can and rest when you need to.  Please keep taking notes, ok?  Take care, R

 

Hi Rosetta I’m clearly in another withdrawal after the last 5wks of failed trial of Vortioxetine/Venlafaxine. This is easily the worse I’ve ever been. I’m now housebound, practically bed bound with the paradox I literally can’t sleep. It’s  4nights again. I’m so tired i want to rest but I can’t. I can’t tolerate reading for more than 5/10mins or TV and I’m so restless and can’t relax even though I’m exhausted. 
 

My Doctor is recommending 2mg of diazepam 3x a day for 4wks to try and stabilise and help me he through this. I really don’t have a clue but leaving my body like this feels like it’s causing more damage by the day. Perhaps diazepam will break this cycle and if I get some sleep it will be good for my CNS. 
 

symptoms 

06:30awoke severe nerve leg pains, restless legs, high anxiety, feel so tired I want to sleep but leg pains and anxiety won’t allow 

07:00 breakfast 07:00 unrinate

8:00 urinate 

9:25 unrinate 

10:45 Urinate 

11:15 Anxiety so high unremitting

12:26 Urinate leg cramps, high heart rate, chest pain, leg pains 

13:30 urinate

14:30 urinate 

14:45 lunch

 

15:15 urinate, high anxiety getting worse, head spinning, tinnitus high, unable to read or focus, panic 

 

16:00 urinate as above 

 

16:55 tried to walk 200yards down the road as being in the garden helps anxiety. 75yrds had panic attack severe dizziness had to stop and lean against fence. Turned around 25yrs happened again, had to stop and sit down. Another 25yrs dizziness passed out. Got home immediately took 10mg Propranolol 

 

18:25 urinate, depersonalisation, detachment from mother unable to have a conversation. 

18:30 Dinner

19:30 urinate, read a book anxiety wave increasing 

20:45 urinate 

21:00 mediate (3 x 20mins)

22:00 urinate, bed, chest palpitations, heart ectopics, brain zaps, terrors everytime nearly nodded off

 

00:00 urinate, stomach pain, muscle twitches constant down back of arm

1.75mg Zopliclone, made feel tired but symptoms as same as 22:00 anxiety very high, sat up went outside for 30mins

 

01:30 urinate symptoms same

02:50 urinate, muscle twitches 

04:00 not slept for 3 night prior terrors unbearable took 1mg Diazepam 

05:00 Slept 

08:30 awoke, urinate, high anxiety, leg pains, restless legs, feel so tired but above stopping me sleeping 

09:00 so tired but so anxious, restless legs worst been for last 2wks

09:00 breakfast 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by ChessieCat
Resized font

[Rosetta]

Hi, Alan,

 

That is exactly how I felt after I took the drugs the doctor gave me in the doses he prescribed. After Trazodone and Xanax, I was a wreck.  I really wish doctors knew what they are doing.

This is to tell you the risks of your doctor’s plan.  I don’t think it’s worth these risks, myself. 

1. Two mg of diazapam may be way too much, first of all.

2. You will become addicted to diazapam very, very quickly.  It takes less than 2 weeks to get addicted, especially for people who are all ready in withdrawal.  If the doctor takes it away after 4 weeks, you will add yet another withdrawal.

3. You may have a bad reaction to it.

4. The only way to avoid addiction would be to take it no more than once a week.
5. You would need to start with the smallest dose possible to see how it goes so that any bad reaction would be small.  I would not take more than 0.5 mg to begin.

For the possibility of relief once a week, I would say it’s too risky.  The scariest risk is that, if it helps you, you will be very tempted to take it twice a day every day.  A bad reaction can happen at any time even if all goes well at first, and if the doctor does not let you have it indefinitely — meaning months or maybe over a year — you will add another withdrawal.  I just can’t believe the power these doctors have to harm people with their ignorance.

 

I’m sorry you are suffering much, and all I have are dire warnings and pessimism.  I do believe you will heal on your own.  It’s going to be a very hard experience as mine has been.  I’m sorry.

 

Rosetta

 

[Alan1234]

9 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Hi, Alan,

 

That is exactly how I felt after I took the drugs the doctor gave me in the doses he prescribed. After Trazodone and Xanax, I was a wreck.  I really wish doctors knew what they are doing.

This is to tell you the risks of your doctor’s plan.  I don’t think it’s worth these risks, myself. 

1. Two mg of diazapam may be way too much, first of all.

2. You will become addicted to diazapam very, very quickly.  It takes less than 2 weeks to get addicted, especially for people who are all ready in withdrawal.  If the doctor takes it away after 4 weeks, you will add yet another withdrawal.

3. You may have a bad reaction to it.

4. The only way to avoid addiction would be to take it no more than once a week.
5. You would need to start with the smallest dose possible to see how it goes so that any bad reaction would be small.  I would not take more than 0.5 mg to begin.

For the possibility of relief once a week, I would say it’s too risky.  The scariest risk is that, if it helps you, you will be very tempted to take it twice a day every day.  A bad reaction can happen at any time even if all goes well at first, and if the doctor does not let you have it indefinitely — meaning months or maybe over a year — you will add another withdrawal.  I just can’t believe the power these doctors have to harm people with their ignorance.

 

I’m sorry you are suffering much, and all I have are dire warnings and pessimism.  I do believe you will heal on your own.  It’s going to be a very hard experience as mine has been.  I’m sorry.

 

Rosetta

 

Thank you for replaying Rosetta

 

can you advise or get a moderator to advise?

 

do I need to reinstate a small dose of Venlafaxine (even though I got sides)?

 

Do I need to taper Zopliclone even though it’s not helping me get any sleep ? If so how with scales or can I make a liquid ?

 

Do I need to taper Diazepam I’ve taken   4 doses over the last week?

 

should I not take propranolol, over th me last 4wks I’ve taken it 8times? Do I need to taper ? 

 

i really can’t get any free hours from anxiety and I am in a panic attack with chest pains over the the last 3/4days, as such I literally can’t sleep ?

 

Is this level of extreme symptoms less beneficial to healing than taking a small dose of a one drug if it means I can turn the anxiety off for some time so I can sleep?

 

wouldn the sleep not be more important to get for my healing, I don’t see how I can heal with this severity of anxiety, panic insomnia? Especially after 20mths if insomnia 

 

Do I need to taper off all these drugs one at a time now even though  vort/ven (5wks) Zopliclone (6wks use) Daizapem (2wks) and Propranolol (4wks) use

 

i really couldn’t get worse the Terrors, heart starts, palpitations, missed beats, anxiety and panic/extreme dizziness feel like there telling me I need something 

[Rosetta]

I would stop diazapam.  It is not giving you any sleep at all, right?  No more Ven, that for sure.

 

I would not taper anything right now.  

Anything PRN as you are taking propanalol is risky as it is jerking your system about.  I thought that was a beta blocker for your heart. There is a short acting and a long acting version.  Do you know which you have?

 

I don’t know what to say about propranolol as it is for your heart.  I’m not a doctor.

You need stability, and with that will come sleep.  The way to get your sleep back is to NOT change Zopiclone right now.  Sleep induced by drugs is not ideal, and it hinders your body’s ability to get back to sleeping naturally, but you are dependent on Zopiclone even though it does not appear to be helping.

[HugHK]

52 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

I would stop diazapam.  It is not giving you any sleep at all, right?  No more Ven, that for sure.

 

I would not taper anything right now.  

Anything PRN as you are taking propanalol is risky as it is jerking your system about.  I thought that was a beta blocker for your heart. There is a short acting and a long acting version.  Do you know which you have?

 

I don’t know what to say about propranolol as it is for your heart.  I’m not a doctor.

You need stability, and with that will come sleep.  The way to get your sleep back is to NOT change Zopiclone right now.  Sleep induced by drugs is not ideal, and it hinders your body’s ability to get back to sleeping naturally, but you are dependent on Zopiclone even though it does not appear to be helping.

 

Hmm I was wondering too about propranolol for withdrawal. My understanding of your point is that it's not great as affects nervous system, but if it is for a heart condition / risk due to permanently elevated heart rate during withdrawal, then it's better to take it just to avoid anything life threatening?

 

 

[Believer]

Hi Alan,

I agree with Rosetta about not adding any more drugs. If you read my thread, you’ll see that I experienced many of the the same things you’re experiencing, about 10 months ago. 
 

You’re sleep will return and your other symptoms will subside. It will take time and be very uncomfortable but it will happen. Do everything you think of to calm yourself, then do them again and again.

 

You got this.

[Alan1234]

1 hour ago, Rosetta said:

Hi, Alan,

 

That is exactly how I felt after I took the drugs the doctor gave me in the doses he prescribed. After Trazodone and Xanax, I was a wreck.  I really wish doctors knew what they are doing.

This is to tell you the risks of your doctor’s plan.  I don’t think it’s worth these risks, myself. 

1. Two mg of diazapam may be way too much, first of all.

2. You will become addicted to diazapam very, very quickly.  It takes less than 2 weeks to get addicted, especially for people who are all ready in withdrawal.  If the doctor takes it away after 4 weeks, you will add yet another withdrawal.

3. You may have a bad reaction to it.

4. The only way to avoid addiction would be to take it no more than once a week.
5. You would need to start with the smallest dose possible to see how it goes so that any bad reaction would be small.  I would not take more than 0.5 mg to begin.

For the possibility of relief once a week, I would say it’s too risky.  The scariest risk is that, if it helps you, you will be very tempted to take it twice a day every day.  A bad reaction can happen at any time even if all goes well at first, and if the doctor does not let you have it indefinitely — meaning months or maybe over a year — you will add another withdrawal.  I just can’t believe the power these doctors have to harm people with their ignorance.

 

I’m sorry you are suffering much, and all I have are dire warnings and pessimism.  I do believe you will heal on your own.  It’s going to be a very hard experience as mine has been.  I’m sorry.

 

Rosetta

 

I’m sorry I had to take 2mg again 4hrs ago. I managed to get another 2.5hrs deep sleep. It doesn’t not take the tinnitus away but does stop the acute panic. I haven’t had any reaction to it so far but I doubt I have used it enough 

[Alan1234]

1 hour ago, Rosetta said:

I would stop diazapam.  It is not giving you any sleep at all, right?  No more Ven, that for sure.

 

I would not taper anything right now.  

Anything PRN as you are taking propanalol is risky as it is jerking your system about.  I thought that was a beta blocker for your heart. There is a short acting and a long acting version.  Do you know which you have?

 

I don’t know what to say about propranolol as it is for your heart.  I’m not a doctor.

You need stability, and with that will come sleep.  The way to get your sleep back is to NOT change Zopiclone right now.  Sleep induced by drugs is not ideal, and it hinders your body’s ability to get back to sleeping naturally, but you are dependent on Zopiclone even though it does not appear to be helping.

Ok no more Ven. It has caused me to become housebound this latest withdrawal.

 

No the Zopliclone isn’t giving me anymore sleep. The diazepam is the only thing that’s given me any sleep. 
 

the propranolol PRN is 10mg. It’s the lowest possible dose and it’s instant release. At 10mg it doesn’t do anything so I have to take 30/40mg but then it gives me a headache, and a funny taste in my mouth and makes my insomnia worse. It’s not been prescribed for my heart but for anxiety. My doctor has said my heart is racing and my blood pressure is stage 1 but it’s all from the chronic anxiety/stress/panic if it sleeping.

 

Zoplicolone I am taking 1.85mg a night. I have tapered this as it wasn’t working at the 3.75mg dose my doctor prescribed. It helped hit and miss at 7.5mg on the nights when anxiety wasn’t as bad but it only allowed me to get to sleep about 2/3hrs sleep but then the anxiety and urination awoke me and kept me awake and then I felt lousy off it . 

[Alan1234]

35 minutes ago, HugHK said:

 

Hmm I was wondering too about propranolol for withdrawal. My understanding of your point is that it's not great as affects nervous system, but if it is for a heart condition / risk due to permanently elevated heart rate during withdrawal, then it's better to take it just to avoid anything life threatening?

 

 

I was previously under a cardiologist in June/July for VT. They took me in hospital for a week as it can cause sudden death because it’s a very serious alteration of the electrical activity in your heart that coordinates the different chambers beating your heart. I was discharged without any beta blocker because they couldn’t find a cause and said it’s not happening often enough to require a implanted defib fitted. They did say it could have been caused by an adrenal gland dysfunction or the Covid jabs or very high stress over a period of time. My doctor has just referred me

back to the cardiologist who wants me to wear a 2wk Ecg again. It’s looking like withdrawal is the cause. 
 

Atm Diazepam appears to be the drug that calms me the most. I don’t want to introduce new drugs and would be scared then if that withdrawal but I do know the stress that’s been going on nearly 22mths now isn’t good for my heart 

[Alan1234]

23 minutes ago, Believer said:

Hi Alan,

I agree with Rosetta about not adding any more drugs. If you read my thread, you’ll see that I experienced many of the the same things you’re experiencing, about 10 months ago. 
 

You’re sleep will return and your other symptoms will subside. It will take time and be very uncomfortable but it will happen. Do everything you think of to calm yourself, then do them again and again.

 

You got this.

Hey @Believer

 

i really do want to believe you. My sleep had bene this bad since the badly advised abrupt taper of Venlafaxine in March 2020. Sleep was never an issue before. I did get some relief as in I was managing to get 2, occasionally 3 nights broken sleep a week from April 2021 until October 2021. This is when my world has come crashing down and I developed a whole new level of symptoms. I’m getting panic attacks leading to pre syncope, anxiety that doesn’t recide just increases to terror and  vertigo with tinnitus and severe leg cramping and nerve pains. This has been day after day and constant since mid October. The sleeping tablets introduced in mid October helped for a week, then they weren’t powerful enough to keep me asleep longer than 2/3hours. 
 

im caught in this constant cycle of extreme symptoms that the coping symptoms don’t help with. I mediate and practice them every single day but mostly I can’t even focus or listen to them as it’s so severe. It’s so severe it seems counter intuitive to try and live with, I can’t sleep a wink for 5days and I’m took I’ll to walk. I was just thinking if I could get some stability with some sleep then I would feel so much better. Remember I haven’t slept for more than 3nights broken sleep for 22mths because of the insomnia and bladder issue i have. Now it’s one nights broken sleep 5/6 hours once per week for the last 2/3wks. As it was in October pre sleeping tablets

 

i will definitely read your posts from 10mths ago though

 

thank you for your comments and help  

[Alan1234]

40 minutes ago, Believer said:

Hi Alan,

I agree with Rosetta about not adding any more drugs. If you read my thread, you’ll see that I experienced many of the the same things you’re experiencing, about 10 months ago. 
 

You’re sleep will return and your other symptoms will subside. It will take time and be very uncomfortable but it will happen. Do everything you think of to calm yourself, then do them again and again.

 

You got this.

Hey @Believer

 

i really do want to believe you. My sleep had bene this bad since the badly advised abrupt taper of Venlafaxine in March 2020. Sleep was never an issue before. I did get some relief as in I was managing to get 2, occasionally 3 nights broken sleep a week from April 2021 until October 2021. This is when my world has come crashing down and I developed a whole new level of symptoms. I’m getting panic attacks leading to pre syncope, anxiety that doesn’t recide just increases to terror and  vertigo with tinnitus and severe leg cramping and nerve pains. This has been day after day and constant since mid October. The sleeping tablets introduced in mid October helped for a week, then they weren’t powerful enough to keep me asleep longer than 2/3hours. 
 

im caught in this constant cycle of extreme symptoms that the coping symptoms don’t help with. I mediate and practice them every single day but mostly I can’t even focus or listen to them as it’s so severe. It’s so severe it seems counter intuitive to try and live with, I can’t sleep a wink for 5days and I’m took I’ll to walk. I was just thinking if I could get some stability with some sleep then I would feel so much better. Remember I haven’t slept for more than 3nights broken sleep for 22mths because of the insomnia and bladder issue i have. Now it’s one nights broken sleep 5/6 hours once per week for the last 2/3wks. As it was in October pre sleeping tablets

 

i will definitely read your posts from 10mths ago though

 

thank you for your comments and help  

[Alan1234]

I’m not trying to ignore advice and be argumentative on purpose. I appreciate everyone who is taking the time to reply to me.

 

I’m so scared because my taper off Venlafaxine In march 2020 was basically a badly advised CT by my GP. I’ve been so damaged since then and I didn’t know what withdrawal was. I was still able to work, drive and even exercise fully up until February 2021. 
 

I feel I need a moderator or some more help to decide the best course today going forward. Since last year my body has been repeatedly damaged by bad advice and my desperation to keep trying to live a normal life by trying a drug reinstatement. 
 

everyone is giving me great advice but it feels like when I read their drug histories and compare them to mine and when I describe my own symptoms of anxiety, panic, terror and insomnia compared to there’s it appears a lot worse. Everyone has clearly felt the same feelings as me but then when I get advice it’s the right advise for most people but it’s like the advise doesn’t take into consideration that I’ve been on 9 psych meds every one of them hasn’t been  tapered like they should have been. Everytime up until my failed trial of Vortioxetine/Venlafaxine hasn’t been my fault it was taken out of my hands by a doctor or psychiatrist. 
 

im hanging in for my life. Is their anyone with my mind of history of so many CT from drugs over a period of time with the same level of symptoms on this site ? 
 

would it be safer for my body to be on something like Diazepam to stop these severe symptoms. I can’t imagine they could be possibly worse. 
 

im not exaggerating in any way when  I feel like I’m dying from these physiological symptoms.

 

I have read that this can happen to people in withdrawal especially from Alcohol etc. Does this not need to be considered that by me trying to survive theses horrifically severe  symptoms this could be  killing me?

 

Do I not need to consider anything that would abate these symptoms?

 

im not exaggerating them  in any way!

I feel like although I’m getting great advice and sympathy people can’t see the state or realise how bad a way I really am in.

 

im only able to even write on here this much as I’ve taken two lots of diazepam today and it’s given me a small window from the terror, panic anxiety and heart symptoms, some sleep , it’s not taken the vertigo or tinnitus or  we’ve pains in legs and cramps but it has helped with the symptoms that feel life threatening 

[Believer]

Alan,

 

All of my symptoms came up without any drug changes, I had been holding for 16 months. The only things that changed were increased stress and Covid vaccines. I have improved significantly over the past several months but know where near my withdrawal normal. I just have to believe it will continue to improve in time. I have only had a couple of drug changes/additional drugs and they only made things worse. But everyone is different.
 

Why don’t you tag a mod and see if they have any thoughts on your situation. 

[Alan1234]

39 minutes ago, Believer said:

Alan,

 

All of my symptoms came up without any drug changes, I had been holding for 16 months. The only things that changed were increased stress and Covid vaccines. I have improved significantly over the past several months but know where near my withdrawal normal. I just have to believe it will continue to improve in time. I have only had a couple of drug changes/additional drugs and they only made things worse. But everyone is different.
 

Why don’t you tag a mod and see if they have any thoughts on your situation. 

@Believer thank you for getting back to me again. It’s really hard because I don’t think anyone realises exactly however bad I am without seeing me which I understand why this is.

 

I honestly find it so difficult to even write on her. Forgive me how/which moderator should I tag? I’m not going sure which ones there are or best for me, I think after me going back on Drugs In October they have distanced themselves away from me. 
 

so how do in i tag and should i tag them in one of my last posts ?

 

im finding it really hard and to a point more triggering being on here but im doing it because I feel like my body is dying from this. That is how bad I feel

 

I have no one else who understands or    believes me when I say this is drug induced withdrawal. My mum just said it’s depression and it’s because I didn’t stick to the drugs. No one has any idea the worse being my estranged wife and daughter. 

[AlanC]

Alan, back on page 9 of your thread, on 2nd October, you were talking to Altostrata about Diazepam. Go back and take look at what she said, then maybe tag her to see if she is still of the same opinion.

 

I'm really sorry to see just how bad things have got for you.

[Alan1234]

On 10/2/2021 at 11:01 PM, Altostrata said:

I wouldn't argue with it if it works.

@Altostrata please please please could you look at my latest posts and advise if you still have an opinion on wether a low dose diazepam is an option for me, as per Above posts Oct 2.

 

ive had extremely bad reactions to failed restatements of anti depressants in Late Oct/Nov. 
 

Please could you advise. It’s hard for someone to see how bad I am on here. I’m not exaggerating but I feel like I’m dying with my symptoms their that severe. My insomnia as it stands is getting to 4/5 days without sleep and I can no longer go outside to walk without passing out with panic attacks. These started in the latest reinstatement and have got worse since stopping. I have constant chest pains and missed heart beats and palpitations and feel if i continue as I am my body might fail soon. I’m not trying to be dramatic i feel that bad

 

god bless  

[Alan1234]

26 minutes ago, AlanC said:

Alan, back on page 9 of your thread, on 2nd October, you were talking to Altostrata about Diazepam. Go back and take look at what she said, then maybe tag her to see if she is still of the same opinion.

 

I'm really sorry to see just how bad things have got for you.

Thank you @AlanC that is a great idea and piece of advice. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

 

I hope you are doing well 

[Altostrata]

On 10/2/2021 at 12:49 PM, Altostrata said:

Given your situation, I would not consider taking the minimum effect dosage of diazepam to be a worse mess. Your prescriber would have to understand you have no desire to continue it and intend to taper off in some months. We can assist you in tapering.

 

I cannot predict if diazepam will work for you. Be sure to start with a micro-dose to see what it does.

[Alan1234]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

I cannot predict if diazepam will work for you. Be sure to start with a micro-dose to see what it does.

Ok 

[AlanC]

20 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

 

My Doctor is recommending 2mg of diazepam 3x a day for 4wks to try and stabilise and help me through this. 

 

 

 

Alan, you must talk to your doctor about this. Four weeks is more than long enough for you to become dependent on the Diazepam, and if your doctor just stops it abruptly at the end of the four weeks then you could easily be adding benzo withdrawal to all the other problems you currently have.

 

You absolutely need to follow Altostrata's advice, all of it. Make absolutely sure your doctor understands that you intend to taper off the diazepam - doctors are well aware how easily you can become dependent on benzos, and it's possible he may have heard about Prof. Heather Ashton who literally wrote the book on the subject - meaning you'll need him to keep prescribing the diazepam while you do the taper.

 

If your doctor won't agree to that then you'll have to decide whether the considerable risk of benzo withdrawal is worth four weeks of whatever relief the diazepam might bring you. I would absolutely agree with everything Rosetta and Believer have said: adding another drug, knowing that your doctor is going to effectively cold turkey you in a matter of weeks, is just going to make everything worse and you really don't need that on top of everything you're currently suffering.

 

Read Rosetta's post about the risks of your doctor's plan again: it's an excellent description of what you would need to do.

[Rosetta]

Thank you, AlanC.  
 

Alan, I do understand how bad your condition is, and if I trusted your doctor to give you the right dose of diazepam and continue prescribing it until your system stabilized, I would agree that it’s worth the risk.  The fact that he is saying 4 weeks is terrifying to me.  

Your doctor’s plan tells me that he has no idea how easily one becomes addicted and that he is sprinkling benzo addicted people in withdrawal all across his territory.  I’m sure he means well, but he is completely unaware of the timeline for addiction.

 

You cannot add benzo withdrawal to your condition.  It will kill you, period.  AD withdrawal is horrible, but benzo withdrawal is a different ball of wax entirely.  Again, if you could be sure that you would be allowed to stabilize and taper at your own rate, via the modified Dr. Heather Ashton protocol, I would feel that diazepam was an option.  The modification to her protocol is very, very important, and it is that the taper goes on far past 1 mg of the drug.  Reducing by 10% of the last dose can go on down to 0.05 mg or whichever dose the patient needs.  The taper is NEVER rushed to get the patient off the drug, and there is none of this “lowest effective dose”— “just stop because that tiny dose cannot possibly be affecting you” nonsense either.

[Alan1234]

1 hour ago, Rosetta said:

Thank you, AlanC.  
 

Alan, I do understand how bad your condition is, and if I trusted your doctor to give you the right dose of diazepam and continue prescribing it until your system stabilized, I would agree that it’s worth the risk.  The fact that he is saying 4 weeks is terrifying to me.  

Your doctor’s plan tells me that he has no idea how easily one becomes addicted and that he is sprinkling benzo addicted people in withdrawal all across his territory.  I’m sure he means well, but he is completely unaware of the timeline for addiction.

 

You cannot add benzo withdrawal to your condition.  It will kill you, period.  AD withdrawal is horrible, but benzo withdrawal is a different ball of wax entirely.  Again, if you could be sure that you would be allowed to stabilize and taper at your own rate, via the modified Dr. Heather Ashton protocol, I would feel that diazepam was an option.  The modification to her protocol is very, very important, and it is that the taper goes on far past 1 mg of the drug.  Reducing by 10% of the last dose can go on down to 0.05 mg or whichever dose the patient needs.  The taper is NEVER rushed to get the patient off the drug, and there is none of this “lowest effective dose”— “just stop because that tiny dose cannot possibly be affecting you” nonsense either.

Hi Rosetta 

I have spoken to me Doctor again and he is happy to support a longer time and taper of diazepam if needed. 
 

I have to admit I had to take a quarter of a 2mg so 0.5mg of diazepam last night and it helped me get 7hrs sleep. I don’t know if this was the diazepam or because I hadn’t sleep for days again.

 

I tried to quarter the tablets and make a powder to weight. I found this incredibly difficult to be accurate with measures so it does concern me how if I did a short trail on a very small dose how I would manage to do micro tapers. In the Professor Ashton manual I found online I couldn’t see any tapers for less than 1mg?

 

I am now tachycardic most of the day which is obviously anxiety driven but it’s so marked as previously up until June of this year because of my previous level of fitness I was always brachdcardic. Even up until the latest Vortioxetine in Oct I had a fairly low pulse.

 

my doctor wants me to take the diazepam and a beta blocker. The beta blockers cause more insomnia, headaches so I’ve told him I’m not going to go on two new drugs. He said my blood pressure is only stage 1 hyper tension atm so he is happy if I don’t Want to take a beta blocker for the time being.

 

I have stopped the Zopliclone.

 

I feel all the anxiety and high rate is being exacerbated by how much I urinate. I am now using bags to help with this. 
 

I feel I should try and do some short walks again before I loose complete ability and remain chronically housebound, which could present a bigger hurdle to get over.

 

I completely understand what you are saying regarding diazepam and that it could kill me. I can’t imagine having to go through anymore than I am at present and that fear also concerns me. 
 

i know this isn’t easy to answer this but I was wondering if there was anyway I could microdose perhaps much lower than 0.5mg for say the next 3/4wks, starting in an immediate taper if you like to help get me through this latest AD withdrawal. The strain in my heart isn’t good and I feel a tiny dose could be beneficial. 
 

I don’t think you can reliably make diazepam liquid and I would have to find a diazepam taper schedule for microdoses. Maths was never my strong point but I would need to find a suitably small doses that could effectively be tapered in a short time. I think even if I could get a weeks sleep this could really help and then taper straight away after this. I certainly don’t want to risk taking it for more than one month.

 

I know my thoughts are very scary about taking it and I shouldn’t even consider it. I just don’t know if I can get through if i dont. Equally if I don’t do this right this could go badly wrong and kill me 

[AlanC]

Alan, there's some information about dissolving benzos in the Benzo Tapering and Recovery forum:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/3162-benzo-tapering-nuggets/?do=findComment&comment=312525

 

That might make it easier for you to control exactly how much you're getting.

[Altostrata]

4 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

I have to admit I had to take a quarter of a 2mg so 0.5mg of diazepam last night and it helped me get 7hrs sleep. I don’t know if this was the diazepam or because I hadn’t sleep for days again.

 

I tried to quarter the tablets and make a powder to weight. I found this incredibly difficult to be accurate with measures so it does concern me how if I did a short trail on a very small dose how I would manage to do micro tapers. In the Professor Ashton manual I found online I couldn’t see any tapers for less than 1mg?

 

That's good. You might be able to get by with one dose of 0.5mg diazepam in the evening. It has a long half-life.

 

We expect you will develop physiological dependence on diazepam taken every day for some months. This relatively short period will not kill you or cause brain degeneration. We have experience tapering small amounts. We will help you taper off after you stabilize. 

 

You may find making a liquid to be a more convenient way to take 0.5mg diazepam. @Frogie will help you with this.

[Frogie]

@AlanC

 

Take a look at this YouTube video. It explains really well how to make a liquid solution.

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1UiTq3LwZDOjuR4ZG7Zoiw

 

Please let me know if you have any questions and I'll be happy to help.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[AlanC]

8 minutes ago, Frogie said:

@AlanC

 

Take a look at this YouTube video. It explains really well how to make a liquid solution.

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1UiTq3LwZDOjuR4ZG7Zoiw

 

Please let me know if you have any questions and I'll be happy to help.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

Wrong Alan, Frogie. You want to tag @Alan1234

[Frogie]

5 minutes ago, AlanC said:

 

Wrong Alan, Frogie. You want to tag @Alan1234

I am so sorry!

[Frogie]

@Alan1234

 

Take a look at this YouTube video. It explains really well how to make a liquid solution.

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1UiTq3LwZDOjuR4ZG7Zoiw

 

Please let me know if you have any questions and I'll be happy to help.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Alan1234]

Symptom diary 

 

 

9:00 wake 

9:25 unrinate 

9:30 breakfast 

10:30 high anxiety 

11:30 tachycardic 125bpm standing 

11:15 Anxiety so high 

13:30 palpitations 

14:30 panic attack

15:00 lunch

16:00 high anxiety getting worse, head spinning, tinnitus high, unable to read or focus, panic 

17:00 tachycardic but felt calmer 

18:30 Dinner 

20:30 palpitations chest anxiety, left sided neck pain 

22:30 took 0.5mg diazepam 

23:00 bed 

23:10 anxiety horrific, palpitations, racing heart 

23:20 meditations for an hour 

 

00:30 trying to sleep brain spinning like vertigo and feel like I’m falling struggling to lie down in bed

 

01:00 perceived self meditation mantras

 

01:45 started to get tired as drifting to sleep severe heart/ starts sleep starts/terrors. Head spinning like falling then violently jolt with heart feeling like it’s stoped a beat causing high anxiety 

 

02:00 same cycle repeated for 1 hour happened 5times, can’t tolerate lying flat too scary heart racing, head spinning and palpitations. Had to sit up and stay awake as soon as lay down it would start again

 

02:00-06:00 am awake but sat up can’t lie down due to terror and heart starts, vertigo, palpitations etc

 

06:00 so tired, really scared don’t know how much longer I can deal with no sleep and these episodes. It feels like I’m dying. It happened for a 2 wks in April after the Psychiatrist CT Mirtazapine to swap to Paxil that I had to CT. since then it has happened a few times a week but not multiple times a night. I realise this is driving my insomnia as I’m scared of bedtime and sleep. I also think this could be what’s affected my heart I’m so stressed.

 

06:30 breakfast 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by ChessieCat
Resized font

[Alan1234]

I’m really scared these are so violent and my brain spins uncontrollably inside my skull then I feel like I fall then boom my heart feels like it explodes suddenly and i violently wake. They happen as I’m trying to fall asleep. I’ve had them before in March, April and a few times a week since but they are getting more violent? 
 

I had them originally but very infrequent when I first came off Venlafaxine in 2020. It’s making me too scared to try and sleep. That’s why I’ve tried sleeping tablets and now diazepam. My doctor says they are just panic attacks. They feel too violent for a panic attack. 
 

They aren’t a type of seizure are they ? 
 

it’s like my heart is violently waking me because It thinks i will die if I go to sleep. 
 

I know i desperately need sleep though as now after 20mths insomnia it’s causing so many other health issues now. 
 

There are others who have had severe insomnia in withdrawal too, did they have these issues? Am I better to nkt try and sleep there so frightening 

[Rosetta]

Oh, you are having jerks.  I had those, too, and they are awful, awful, awful.  I’m so sorry.  They won’t hurt you, and it’s not a seizure.  It’s your fight or flight system malfunctioning.

 

It is a huge relief to me that your doctor is cooperative.  I feel much better, and I’m sure you do, too.  You need not feel bad about needing diazepam.  Used properly, it can work out well.  I’m glad you got some sleep.  That’s super!  You are in good hands here in terms of dosing and tapering diazepam.  Frogie is wonderful.  I did not taper or use solutions, of course, but I’ll be here for you in any way I can.  
 

[AlanC]

The sudden waking with a huge burst of anxiety is something that happened to me, as well. Coming awake with my heart pounding and anxiety so bad I just wanted to jump out of the window. It was horrible, one of the most distressing symptoms of the withdrawal. It went away eventually, but it has come back occasionally when I'm getting badly stressed.

 

I'm really glad your doctor is finally giving you the support you need to get through this. You've been treated terribly by the medical profession to date.

[Alan1234]

1 hour ago, AlanC said:

The sudden waking with a huge burst of anxiety is something that happened to me, as well. Coming awake with my heart pounding and anxiety so bad I just wanted to jump out of the window. It was horrible, one of the most distressing symptoms of the withdrawal. It went away eventually, but it has come back occasionally when I'm getting badly stressed.

 

I'm really glad your doctor is finally giving you the support you need to get through this. You've been treated terribly by the medical profession to date.

It’s awful on bad nights it can happen 6+ times. I’ve developed panic about falling to sleep. On those nights I can’t tolerate lying down and have to just sit up in a chair or walk or sit In the back yard. Thanks for your support Alan 

[Alan1234]

Unfortunately I’ve had some bad news.

i was called to come into hospital for tests yesterday some the cardiologist referred me for in June. 
 

they have found the cause of my bladder and heart issue. They’ve told me I am positive for Diabetes insipidous. I’m now being given a hormone to ascertain what type it is if it’s nephrogenic diabetes lnsipidous. 
They have said it explains the heart aryhtmia symptoms. 
 

im very angry as I’ve googled it and one of the main causes for a adult to develop it if it is damage to the kidney from drugs. 
 

Please pray for me that’s it’s treatable, i feel so down. There keeping me in for another day at least 

[Alan1234]

22 hours ago, Frogie said:

@Alan1234

 

Take a look at this YouTube video. It explains really well how to make a liquid solution.

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1UiTq3LwZDOjuR4ZG7Zoiw

 

Please let me know if you have any questions and I'll be happy to help.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

My only question is about propylene glycol. Is there any other way of desolving diazepam without using this chemical that you know of? 
 

sorry I’m just trying to cut everything possible out that could be neurotoxic 

[Alan1234]

23 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

That's good. You might be able to get by with one dose of 0.5mg diazepam in the evening. It has a long half-life.

 

We expect you will develop physiological dependence on diazepam taken every day for some months. This relatively short period will not kill you or cause brain degeneration. We have experience tapering small amounts. We will help you taper off after you stabilize. 

 

You may find making a liquid to be a more convenient way to take 0.5mg diazepam. @Frogie will help you with this.

Should i start this with the view to attaining any stability for my symptoms. Rather then start with the view that I will only take it for 8/12wks then taper/or include taper in this time.

Or just Reassess on a 4wk basis ?