Matheus: Has someone been on two antidepressants at the same time?

[Matheus]

Is this a question of adaptation to the generic brand or the are in  fact a little less efective?

 

[Colonial]

 

 

On 4/10/2021 at 4:00 PM, Colonial said:

For your drug signature, if you can put the month and day (as best as you can remember) you have been on each med that you are currently taking, at at what times.. "March" is very recent, and depending on what med you started at what time, complications can develop.

 

Hi, can you please put these dates of when you started the 3 medications, at their current strengths, month and date, in the signature line?

We need this information for quick reference and without it, it is problematic to give good answers

 

On 3/31/2021 at 11:27 AM, Matheus said:

In the beginining of december i reinstated paroxetine, and my symptons slightly improved( diarrhea stoped), but i still had a lot of crazy symptoms( dizziness was the worse).

 

However your med signature says:  "Aug 2019: back to paroxetine 40 mg and zolpiden 6, 25."

 

You do not have listened anywhere in you thread when you started the zolpiden and WHY

If you started it before the reinstatement, or near the same time in Aug 2019, the dizziness could be a side effect of the zolpiden by itself.

It is a highly reported side effect.

Or it could be the combination of that and the Paxil as a drug interaction.

These can happen at any time

 

If your insomnia was from AD withdrawal now that you are back on it, you may very well no longer need a sleep aid.

Tapering off it first may be the smartest move since the dizziness is your main issue and Zolpiden is a likely culprit.

 

However, we more detail as to why and when you started it, and what other drug changes were going on at that time.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Colonial

[Matheus]

Ok. @Colonial. Thankyou for your help. I will change my signature tomorrow whem i have time

 

But to make it clear: i am taking zolpiden since august 2019 with paxil. In aug 2019, i was felling very bad and could not sleep( i had the dizziness too, but not as intense as now), and my doctor put me back on paxil and added zolpiden. So i started with zolpiden at night in august 2019 more or less. And i had no problem with taking them togheter, i stabilized and was feeling very well( although paxil wasnt making much difference, i think it pooped out), but i was able to get back to life, little by little.

 

Problem is in oct 2020, i decided to stop both paroxetine and zolpiden all togheter( big, big mistake), and crashed hard.  But i only knew cold turkeyingy was the problem a month later( i didnt know about WD).

 

So around december ( i dont know exaxtly when or the day) i got back on paxil but the damage was already done, and it eased a liiitle bit the symptons but not everyone( a little bit later i got back on zolpiden too).

 

Im february  i changed doctor, and since i was suffering so much he advised me to try venlafaxine and stop paroxetine. I did what he said( i didnt know at the time it was a baad idea), and took venlafaxine and zolpiden at night. Venlafaxine was no help, made me worse, with agitation, i even upped the dose( 75mg) but made me even more restless.

 

So i decided  to low the dose, and get back to paxil, because i thought it could alleviate the symptons.

 

This is when i knew about SA and learned about WD and decided to keep on paxil since my wd was from it all the time but i couldnt stop venlafaxine cause i was already hook. 

 

Confuse story, right?

But it is what it is.

 

Tomorrow ill change my signature and make ir clearer.

 

Thankyou for your help, very apreciated, hope u doing ok!

[Colonial]

35 minutes ago, Matheus said:

i am taking zolpiden since august 2019 with paxil. In aug 2019, i was felling very bad and could not sleep( i had the dizziness too, but not as intense as now), and my doctor put me back on paxil and added zolpiden.

 

Yes, we already have that information in that repeated long post.

Please listen to what is being asked, what we need is concise dates and amounts.

 

You had been on Paxil BEFORE Aug 2019 and then stopped.

We need to know what dose you had been on, how long, and how you tapered that Paxil before Aug 2019.

 

The insomnia was probably a WD symptom from stopping that round of Paxil and repeated drops

That is why I am saying you may not need the sleep aide now that you have reinstated.

 

I understand you had dizziness BEFORE starting the Zolpiden, it may have been WD as well as the original insomnia.

But You must understand that it is also a side effect of the Zolpiden alone AND...

Now you are also taking it with 2 medications that make it more likely to have dizziness, The Paxil And venlafaxine.

 

It is likely the drug responsible for your continued dizziness.

You changed the Paxil formulation and now it has gotten worse as a result of a change in interaction.

 

Once you have stabilized on the new generic Paxil it may be the best drug to begin to taper first.

Your insomnia may no longer be an issue if you continue to taper properly in the future.

 

The goal is to address the worst symptom that is causing the most distress and problem functioning.

For You that is the dizziness.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Colonial

[Matheus]

Hi everyone!

 

Hello, @Colonial, i tried to changr my signature but it only accepts 12 lines. My story is so confuse and im trying to make it fit in there.

 

Oh my god, my dizziness is so bad i cant do anything ☹️☹️☹️

 

I just dont know what to do... if i stop zolpiden now, without a routine, a life, i am sure i wont sleep. If i could get out of house and do things i could stop zolpiden but now i cant...

[Matheus]

I just dont know if should start tappering venlafaxine or reduce paroxetine... im trying to stabilize in my current medication but i dont know i will since im feeling soo bad

 

In my gut when i begin to tapper i must taper venlafaxine first because it is the last drug added to the mix, and the one i think is causing more problems

 

This generic paroxetine isnt of any help either, i think it makes a lot of diference compared to the name brand 

[Altostrata]

You're taking a hefty dose of paroxetine. Taking the 2 drugs together is not recommended.

[Matheus]

Hi @Altostrata!

 

Yeah, i know, but im stuck with it. I cant simply stop taking effexor because when i reduced by half i vomited...

[Altostrata]

If I were you, I'd go off paroxetine first, if possible. But if you're set on your own plan, why are you asking what to do?

[Matheus]

I am just taking this drugs so i dont get even worse...

[Matheus]

@Altostrata, why would you get off paxil first?

 

Yeah, youre right, seens like i am trying get reassured of my own decison... 

[Colonial]

12 hours ago, Matheus said:

. if i stop zolpiden now, without a routine, a life, i am sure i wont sleep. If i could get out of house and do things i could stop zolpiden but now i cant...

 

I did not mean to stop it altogether, I was referring to tapering it correctly so the rebound insomnia would not restart.

That is why I thought you were taking it

But now I am not sure if that is your only reason since you are thinking if you could do things out of the house you would not need it.

 

7 hours ago, Matheus said:

I cant simply stop taking effexor because when i reduced by half i vomited...

 

Again, you need a tapering plan, stopping 50% of any medication all at once is not recommended and can make you sick.

Whatever drug you choose to start with, it must be a gradual percentage decrease.

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Colonial

[Altostrata]

As explained before, paroxetine is arguably a worse drug than Effexor. If you want to go off Effexor and stay on paroxetine, it's your choice. 

 

I've contributed all I have to say to this discussion. The decision is up to you.

[Matheus]

21 hours ago, Altostrata said:

As explained before, paroxetine is arguably a worse drug than Effexor. If you want to go off Effexor and stay on paroxetine, it's your choice. 

 

I've contributed all I have to say to this discussion. The decision is up to you.

@Altostrata, ok alto i recognize at the end of the day the decision is up to me.

 

Do you think is possible for me to estabilize and feel ok while taking alll this drugs? It feels they are so much for me, but ill have to tapper it anyway.

 

@Colonial yeah, i learned my lesson: never stop any psichiatric medication abruptly. 

When i said i cant get of the house is because i fell so dizzy, unbalanced and i prefer to stay at home so it dont get worse. I mean i can get out, but i prefer not to.

 

Thankyou for your help my friends, this whole processe is sometimes very frustrating, but it will get beter, i hope so.

 

Last two days i think i had a bit of a window after taking a small cup of coffe in the afternon. Today not so good. Hope u guys are feeling ok

[Altostrata]

18 minutes ago, Matheus said:

Do you think is possible for me to estabilize and feel ok while taking alll this drugs?

 

I have no idea. 

 

Please put ALL your drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php

and copy and paste the results or a link to them in this topic. You can better see the risks of taking your cocktail.

[Matheus]

I cant even stop cofee cold turkey... i take one cup of cofee at 16h everyday. Even cofee ill have to tapper cause the WD is too tough.

 

[Matheus]

https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=1800-0,2296-0,2333-0

 

 @AltostrataThis is my drug interaction checker!

[Altostrata]

Do you experience any of the symptoms described in the interactions?

[Matheus]

No @Altostrata. I mean, i do have dizziness but is with me since i CTed my medication. Some times worse some times better, but always with me. So i dont think it is due to interaction between drugs.

 

Im quitting cofee( really hard for me) and i am feeling better, with much more Energy. Cofee was a big addiction to me even drinking just a cup per day.

[Fallensoul]

Hello Matheus,

I'm also taking two ad's, allmost three, but that Mirtazipine at very low dose for sleep, 2,3mg now, and mostly hit histamine receptors.

I take paroxetine 20 years now and it stopped working 3 years agoo.

I tried many additions, but apart from buspar nothing worked.

I began tapering the paroxetine and at 10 I tried to cross over to Clomipramine, but that didn't do much good. I have taken 50mg for a short period and it made me worse, so I tapered that fast down to 25, and now 21,5. I try to lower it to 20, and hold it there, and taper the poopedout paroxetine first along with the benzo's.

So like you now two ad's to taper

I have tapered tapered the paroxetine to 5,28mg.

Some day are really tough, esp.the mornings, with a lot off stress/panic/tension.

Bad mood and pure anxiety has lifted, but happyness is far away though.

[Altostrata]

Good to hear you're feeling better after stopping caffeine.

 

Please let us know if you would like support for tapering any of your drugs.

[Yesyes123]

18 hours ago, Matheus said:

Im quitting cofee( really hard for me) and i am feeling better, with much more Energy. Cofee was a big addiction to me even drinking just a cup per day.

 

Be careful quitting coffee or making any alteration to substances you usually put in your body - running into caffeine withdrawal on top of psych drug WD can be a problem.

 

I surely had problems during WD when trying to stop drinking soda + coffee. I found taking low doses of those daily was the best for me since I have been drinking those pretty much daily for years.

[Matheus]

 

@Fallensoulhello buddy! I am so sorry you are suffering, but trust me, you WILL get better, just give it time. Keep it simple, slow and stable, like this site advised.

 

Few weeks later i was in despair, and now i am so much better. So you can trust me when i way  you will feel better. And you can count on me in this process

 

This people here is really saving lifes...

 

 

 

[Matheus]

@Altostrata ok, alto i will need help when i start tappering, but now i am just holding. Trying to get as stable as i can.

[Matheus]

@Yesyes123 oi amigo!!! Yes, quitting cofee is no easy task if foi are taking it daily as i did too. 

 

I kinda tappered it A little bit... I was making it weaker  and weaker, untill i finally stop it. Best thing i ever did.

 

Boa noite amigo!! Espero q esteja bem!! Tamo junto!

 

 

[Matheus]

One thing is really frustrating about dealing with these drugs: when you make a change sometimes you feel good, or at least not that bad, and you think:" Ok, i can hand that change in dosage", but some days later  you are feeling real bad....

 

Ok, i've read the Science begin it, how it takes days to our system registar a change in dosage, but WHY do de actually feel better when reduce a drug, or is our mind fooling us??

 

Everytime i tried to get off my drugs, i was decieved by this "ok feeling good" when i stop my meds... very confusing to me.

[Matheus]

Is paxil considered a more activacting drug thank Effexor?

 

@Altostrata, what do u think?

[Erell]

14 minutes ago, Matheus said:

Is paxil considered a more activacting drug thank Effexor?

 

@Altostrata, what do u think?

 

Hello Matheus,

 

To my knowledge, I don't think one is more activating than the other.

However, as Altostrata suggested in your thread, Paxil is considered as one of the worse SSRI, and taking two AD is definitely not recommended.

 

On 4/17/2021 at 10:21 PM, Altostrata said:

If I were you, I'd go off paroxetine first, if possible. 

 

 

Take care ☀️

[Matheus]

Hi @Erell!!! Thanks for your reply.

 

Yeah, ive been thinking a lot about it... i mean, if alto says i should  do it that way probably she is right.

 

The reason i was planning to get off paxil first os because im on it longe, and the switch to Effexor didnt help in symptons from paxil WD.

 

Unfortunatelly i had to change my generic from from Effexor, so now it is extended release. But the good news is that i can count beads( it comes in capsules).

[Erell]

Hello @Matheus

 

I understand, really. It can be very difficult to make decisions while feeling like things are in chaos, and  while nobody can predict how ones body will react.

I send you all my support ☀️

 

The thing is, you are currently taking 2 ADs and quite a hefty dose of Paroxetine.

The safest path sounds like it could be to lower your drug overload.

 

 

As Paroxetine is considered as one of the most difficult drug to withdraw, that's probably why Altostrata suggested to taper this one first.

 

It sounds like you have fears about doing any changes : how do you feel about a small drop, like 5% or 3 or 2%, to test the waters ?

 

Take care ☀️

[Matheus]

helooo, @Erell. Iam sorry i took so long to return your message😅 how are u doing?? i am really gratefull for your suport.

 

yeah, thats true i am afraid of making changes, but as i had to do this change( generic manufacturer of venlafaxine), i am going to wait another month, just to let thing settle a little, and then if i am feeling ok ill do a reduction on paxil (maybe less than 10%).

 

i am having some estrefull time too, and thats another reason why i am holding. having to work and family visit from another city.

 

But i do have one question for you guys, and i hope u can help me. The thing is a have this friend of mine, i am almost a member of her family, but i dont talk to her a lot, bc i am closer to her brother. turns out she started to take escitalopran this week ( she told me today), and i dont know if i should talk to her about WD. I mean, should i warn her, or this is not of my business. I care so much about her and i really dont want her to be in this medications, but i am afraid if i tell her, she will be terrified and make things worse... dont know if i am being clear here...

 

she is one of the most intelligent person i know, beautifull girl, and i just dont want her to suffer, but i dont know what to do...

 

how do u guys deal in this situation?

 

[Yesyes123]

1 hour ago, Matheus said:

helooo, @Erell. Iam sorry i took so long to return your message😅 how are u doing?? i am really gratefull for your suport.

 

yeah, thats true i am afraid of making changes, but as i had to do this change( generic manufacturer of venlafaxine), i am going to wait another month, just to let thing settle a little, and then if i am feeling ok ill do a reduction on paxil (maybe less than 10%).

 

i am having some estrefull time too, and thats another reason why i am holding. having to work and family visit from another city.

 

But i do have one question for you guys, and i hope u can help me. The thing is a have this friend of mine, i am almost a member of her family, but i dont talk to her a lot, bc i am closer to her brother. turns out she started to take escitalopran this week ( she told me today), and i dont know if i should talk to her about WD. I mean, should i warn her, or this is not of my business. I care so much about her and i really dont want her to be in this medications, but i am afraid if i tell her, she will be terrified and make things worse... dont know if i am being clear here...

 

she is one of the most intelligent person i know, beautifull girl, and i just dont want her to suffer, but i dont know what to do...

 

how do u guys deal in this situation?

 

 

You should show her the horror stories like this one

 

 

 

 

[Nanda]

Olá Matheus, também sou brasileira. Como você está hoje? Espero que bem! 
 

Fiz uma redução muito rápida do duloxetina 60mg e tive sintomas terríveis. Reintegrei numa dosagem menor 30mg e estou tentando estabilizar. Não está sendo fácil, o que está me ajudando é o clonazepan. Meu médico criou um plano de tomar 16 gotas divididas em 3 doses diárias durante uma semana e ir diminuindo gradualmente 2 gotas por semana até zerar. O pensamento dele e o meu tb é que nesses 2 meses eu consigo estar mais estabilizada com a dose menor de 30mg de duloxetina, pois ele não quer que voltemos a dose inicial de 60mg, para meu doc seria regredir. Então ele está preferindo usar um benzo para meu período de estabilização, a ter que voltar para dosagem maior do antidepressivo. 
 

Tem dias que me sinto bem, tem dias que não, estou entrado na terceira semana do plano. Algumas vezes tenho insônia e tomo zolpiden (eu tomava ele antes pra dormir), mas o médico pediu pra eu não tomá-lo  enquanto estiver fazendo o tratamento de 2 meses com o benzo. O motivo? Não sei. Assim como você, o zolpiden também me faz muito bem, durmo rapidinho e tenho um sono reparador. 
 

Essa Droga que você está tomando a venlafaxina é da mesma família da duloxetina, são os chamados duais, pois interferem tanto na serotonina como noradrenalina. 

 

Eu estou tomando também omega 3 e magnésio, eles me ajudam um pouco. Também uso óleo essencial de lavanda, ajuda a acalmar. Gostaria de sugerir para você também um podcast chamado autoconsciente, tem no Deezer e no site www.autoconscientepodcast.com.br. São ensinamento incríveis para o processo de autocura. 
 

Desejo que fique bem e em paz. 
 

Um forte abraço 

[Nanda]

Hi Matheus, I'm Brazilian too.  How are you today?  I hope well!

 I had a very rapid reduction of duloxetine 60mg and had terrible symptoms.  I reinstated it in a lower 30mg dosage and I'm trying to stabilize it.  It hasn't been easy, clonazepan is helping me.  My doctor created a plan to take 16 drops, divided into 3 daily doses for a week and gradually taper down to 2 drops a week until it was zero.  His thought and mine is that in these 2 months I can be more stabilized with the lower dose of 30mg of duloxetine, because he doesn't want us to go back to the initial dose of 60mg, for my doc it would be regressing.  So he's preferring to use a benzo for my stabilization period, rather than having to go back to a higher dose of the antidepressant.

 There are days that I feel good, there are days that I don't, I'm entering the third week of the plan.  Sometimes I have insomnia and I take zolpiden (I used to take it before bed), but the doctor asked me not to take it while I'm on the 2-month treatment with the benzo.  The reason?  I do not know.  Like you, the zolpiden does me very well, I sleep quickly and have a restful sleep.

 This drug you are taking, venlafaxine, belongs to the same family as duloxetine, they are called duals, as they interfere with both serotonin and noradrenaline.

 I am also taking omega 3 and magnesium, they help me a little.  I also use lavender essential oil, it helps to calm down.  I would also like to suggest for you a podcast called autoconsciente, available on Deezer and on the website www.autoconscientepodcast.com.br.  They are incredible teachings for the self-healing process.

 I wish you to be well and at peace.

 A big hug

[Matheus]

oiii, Nanda! que bom encontrar outro brasileiro!!!

 

eu sinto muito que vc passou por isso, ta conseguindo estabilizar? Esses remedios sao muito complicados, mesmo. Mas agora parece que voce esta no caminho certo. Tenta seguir os conselhos dados aqui nesse site, principalmente a regra dos tres ks: keep it simple, keep it slow, keep it stable. nosso corpo gosta muito de estabilidade e é uma coisa muito importante. Mas voce vai ficar bem, logo logo estará.

 

Eu tô bem. Claro, ainda longe de 100%, mas pelo menos um pouco estável. Vou conferir, sim, essa dica que você deu do podcast.

 

tenha um bom dia, minha amiga!!! qualquer coisa, se precisar de ajuda pode mandar mensagem no privado.

[Nanda]

Obrigada, Matheus. Desejo que fique bem também. Iniciei essa semana um pouco mais estável e disposta, mas assim como vc, longe de 100%. 
 

Devagar e sempre… vamos seguindo.

 

Se precisar de mim, estou à disposição. 
 

Fique com Deus!