montymonkey: Please help me with chlomipramine tapering

[montymonkey]

Hi, I have ocd and tried numerous anti depressants in young life for short periods. I was then put on chlomipramine 23 years ago and up to the maximum dose for a long time which came down to around 200mg I think. Then I had a heart attack 7 years ago and dropped to 150mg. Since then I have managed to go through hell to get it down to about 0.5mg daily. I have tried to reduce this and I am down to a measured dose with a razor blade now to around .25mg daily. But I have tried to go off completely before and I thought I was going to die. Constant pain, mania, heart skipping beats a lot and urinating in my sleep every night. I have tried twice to take the jump. I don't get any support from drs who always say its in my head and not happening but I ended up in a&e a few times and getting the all clear but thinking I was about to die. Its been hell. So many issues that it was 24/7 unbearable. I really need help on getting off completely. I had just started to decide to skip days as my dose is so small now but have decided not to as I read this. Ive just started to get symptoms again as im so low but it seems I cant take that final jump. I have no support to see if its worth carrying on with. I want off of this drug so badly. I don't have friends that understand and no family support. I need to know what to do and where to go now in somebodies opinion. I know people are different but I any advice is something. Really hope someone takes time to help.Thanks Dean

 

P.s.

Oh forgot to say, I get various stages of withdrawal when attempting. Flu to start and familiar drug withdrawal and the rest comes on around 4 weeks or months later. I'd really like to know the idea behind not going low as poss and then taking that lowest dose every other day, then every 3 days and so on, is this proven to be a bad idea or is it just one person's assumption? I'm new and not being rude, I'm just at a real important stage and I'm affected so badly by withdrawal that I just want to get this right and know the best way possible. Thank you.

[montymonkey]

Oh forgot to say, I get various stages of withdrawal when attempting. Flu to start and familiar drug withdrawal and the rest comes on around 4 weeks or months later.

[montymonkey]

Hi, I am struggling to kick chlomipramine after a couple of decades and have been very ill when I've come off of it before, even though I tapered to best of my knowledge. I have capsules that are 10mg and I'm splitting them and measuring with a razer blade into different lines very carefully to enable me to then consume what I need. I have got it down to 1mg or less before. I know you can do it by liquid but am I right in thinking that if I'm careful getting the correct split into different sizes I can get a decent enough measurement to taper without going down the dissolving route? Its a capsule not a tablet. Are there fillers that I may not be able to know what percentage of them are in each line I make? Or are the fillers just in the solid outer capsules? I've been doing this way for a while but im on my own with it all and lost as drs dont care. Any knowledge or information would be much appreciated as I really need some help. Thank you

[montymonkey]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and its the first forum I've ever registered with. I do everything alone as I live on my own and no support. I have been reading the very informative articles and posts in the site and need a little bit of help with something please. Ive been struggling with getting off chlomipramine for decades now and I'm very low dose now but have hit hurdles and get very ill when taking jump. I take capsules and split them very carefully but I am trying to follow your turning into liquid advice. Its just the calculation I need help with as I can't grasp it due to learning issues. I have carefully worked out that over time im on a dose approx 0.06536mg. That is a 10mg pill split into 11 and then split into 9. Its very time consuming with razor blade and can't get exact but I've managed to get to that and be on it a while but to go further can you help me with what amount of water to dissolve a 10mg capsule in and what measurement in syringe I need. I am really reaching out to someone for some help on this please as I really need just guidance on that. Not assistance in what I'm doing really. Also if anyone can share when they have made the jump to zero? What micro mg they ended on. I really hope everyone is well and am new to any forum. Hope someone can help please. Thank you dean x

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @montymonkey

 

On 3/30/2021 at 2:48 PM, montymonkey said:

I have tried to reduce this and I am down to a measured dose with a razor blade now to around .25mg daily.

 

How do you feel taking 0.25mg daily? How long have you been taking this dosage? Please do not skip doses to go off, we'll figure out something.

[montymonkey]

Hi Altostrata, thank you so much for replying. Im so alone with all of this.

I have read a lot on this forum after finding it recently and have learned a lot in the process. Ive had many failed attempts in the past and have realised ive made many mistakes after reading this forum lately.

 

I took a too bigger jump to zero a couple of times I tried. I didn't realise you had to go so low. Also in the past, as I thought it was logical after getting so low on dose, twice, I skipped days. 1 then 2 then 3. After reading this I have found out its a big error. Luckily reinstatement of a regular dose stepping back over time, corrected things a lot.

I am currently doing the liquid route that have seen on the video in this forum after splitting my chlomipramine capsules for ages now and making doses with razor blades and getting very low dose, (which must be uneven due to guess work), I started it 2 weeks ago now.

I am on a very low dose. Ive found it so hard the lower I get.

I'm sort of OK with the dose im on. Stabilised as much as I can be. 

 

I wonder if you can help me understand a couple of questions please?..

 

1/ im using tap water but mixing it and using it quite quickly. Is it ok to use tap water? Or should I put the water through a water filter? I dont mind making fresh every time I do it.

 

2/ how low do people seem to go before making the jump? I know I'm not allowed advice as such and all people are different but I dont know how low people go.

 

3/ im confused by the 10% reduction after 4 to 8 weeks of dropping. Is it 10% of the last drop you made? If that's the case, surely it will never end?

 

Really appreciate your time. In 20 or more years, you are the first person to show any help or interest and most of all, acknowledge whats happening to me. I thought I was going crazy. Even friends just think "oh well if drs say none of these things are related to withdrawal then drs know what they are doing do it must be in his head" nobody has ever believed me but I have always known its down to this. So thank you so much. I so want to be free of them.

[montymonkey]

Hi. Im hoping Altostrata or someone is there. Ive got myself in a real mess.

I started mixing chlomipramine into water and ive obviously tapered too quickly. Ive become ill with palpitations, anxiety in a massive way and pain in body. Its been a while but I've put it down to other things and its increased massively. Ive only just realised its due to this.

This is what I have managed to get down to...

 

Method

100ml water 10mg chlom
10ml water 1mg chlomipramine
1mg water 0.1
Half mg water 0.05 chlomipramine

 

Started 0.1mg and went down to....

recently
Anti depressants dose chlomipramine 
1st april 0.05mg
0.5mg syringe from 100mg water
18th May..0.45mg syringe from 100mg water
26th June..0.4mg syringe with 100mg water

 

Heart racing and blood pressure up and cant sleep. Going crazy in head.

 

i am suggesting and updose. I took 0.7mg last few nights. Should I go back to .05mg or 0.06mg. I just want to try and stabilise.

 

I know its not advice but should I uprisupdose slowly just like tapering or what dose should I try do you think?

 

I prey somebody is out there for me. I live alone and its hell what I'm going through.

[montymonkey]

I must add i have felt this for a couple of months now but put it down to other things and its just progressed beyond coping now. I have nobody to talk to about it. No family and close friends don't really understand. Im at end of tether. Really just need some guidance to make my own decisions from. 

Last year I basically got as far as I could with cutting a 10mg capsule and taking a very small amount and then I learned from your site to mix with water and syringe. It started OK but not now. 

I do use natural spring water and mix it with precise doses of water and swill it around until dissolved and take it within 10 mins. Then I remake on daily basis.

Thats the info. Think I've felt worse last 3 days taking .07mg from .04mg. Im totally lost. I just need some guidance and opinions please. X

 

My extra info i have recorded in phone is...

2/4 2020 3.3333mg
2.5mg from 24/5
2mg from 2/7
10mg into 7  26/9  1.428mg
10mg into 8  30/9  1.25mg
1mg of drug 

 

Cant find records in between 

 

1st april 2021 0.05mg
0.5mg syringe from 100mg water
18th May..0.45mg syringe from 100mg water
26th June..0.4mg syringe with 100mg water.

 

how long does it take when going up dose to feel better on average?

is it something you do in steps or straight to 1mg from 0.4mg for example? How long gaps staggering back up?

 

I'm so worried i won't be able to get normal again. I just want to feel ok again. Even if I have to stay on them.

 

[montymonkey]

Is anybody there?

On 4/5/2021 at 6:35 AM, Altostrata said:

Welcome, @montymonkey

 

 

How do you feel taking 0.25mg daily? How long have you been taking this dosage? Please do not skip doses to go off, we'll figure out something.

Is anybody there? Hope someone can help. 

[montymonkey]

I'm in such a desperate state. Im now taking 0.05mg in 5mg water for last 4 days after looking through site for information. I cant remember what dose I feel will stabilise me as ive gradually got worse over a few months and didnt realise it was the chlomipramine so have continued to down dose every month (ish) ive been on them for 20 years. I just want to have some kind of idea what to do with dosing so I can try and stabilise. 

 

Wish I'd never have done this now.

 

How often can I updose? Every week or when?

How much can I updose per time?

 

Thats the information I'm trying to get.

 

Thank you. I hope someone is out there.

[montymonkey]

Post moved (on 16 Oct 2021) from "How to talk to your doctor about tapering" topic.

 

Hi. Im trying to get some help.

If you updose due to struggling like crazy but can't remember what dose u felt comfortable with do you step back in doses or can you jump?

It may sound small but I have been taking 0.04mg if chlomipramine for a month 

0.045mg month before that

0.05mg before that

Back from 0.1mg. 1mg solution.

I mix it in water. So 100mg syringe. 4mg solution being 0.04mg

I have been on it over 20 years so its real hard. Ive had symptoms but put it down to something else many times but now I know its full on issues with this. So I'm at a loss of where to go back to.

Can I go to 0.1mg thatvi wasnon last year or close to beginning of this year to be sure or is it best to step backwards and for how long? 

I'm at a loss with this and in distress badly.

I have gone back to 0.05mg for 4 days now.

 

I want to know what quickest way to try and stabilise is.

 

Please help me. Thank you.

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by ChessieCat
added topic info before moving to intro

[Altostrata]

@montymonkey Apologies for missing your questions.

 

It appears you have been having withdrawal symptoms all along while reducing clomipramine, is that correct? You have reduced too far, too fast.

 

Please stop attempting to taper. If I were you, I would increase by 0.05mg every 3 days until you are taking 0.25mg. Be sure to take your dose at the same time each day. Please let us know how you're doing throughout this process.

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[montymonkey]

Thank you so much. I was kind of ok before i went on to liquid form. Then slowly declined and now awful is an understatement. So if I was on 0.1 mg at beginning of year its fine to quickly go back to 0.25mg in 3 days increments? I was worried i had to do the exact reverse of what I've done. Just want to be sure.

Thank you.

I've just taken 0.05mg so shall I do another 0.05mg now. Its been 4 days since I upped it last by minor amount. 

I will do that and report back

[montymonkey]

53 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

@montymonkey Apologies for missing your questions.

 

It appears you have been having withdrawal symptoms all along while reducing clomipramine, is that correct? You have reduced too far, too fast.

 

Please stop attempting to taper. If I were you, I would increase by 0.05mg every 3 days until you are taking 0.25mg. Be sure to take your dose at the same time each day. Please let us know how you're doing throughout this process.

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

MOST IMPORTANTLY DO YOU MEAN 0.25MG OF THE DRUG OR 0.25MG OF THE WATER SOLUTION????

 

SO IMPORTANT I GET THIS RIGHT.

I dilute it in 100mg water.

 

Hi I have added a comment below as I really need some help as been in  a&e today.

I have come from 250mg years ago but ran into issues this year mostly. I turned to liquid at beginning of year to go from 0.1mg down to 0.04mg recently. Can you have a quick look and see my last comment to see if you can judge I don't do anything in the wrong order.

 

If you can just take a short time to view all my messages ive sent on this thread as it shows my full history of taper over last year or more. I just want to be certain I try this correctly first time. Then I can get on with it and report back.

 

I appreciate the time you take.

Thank you

[Altostrata]

I alway refer to dosage in milligrams of active drug. 

 

What is your method to prepare your liquid? How long do you keep it? @brassmonkey will kindly review your method.

 

Not knowing your tapering schedule, I suggest you go gradually back to a higher level. You can stop at 0.10mg for a week. Let us know how you're doing every day.

 

We need you to follow these instructions Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[montymonkey]

6 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

I alway refer to dosage in milligrams of active drug. 

 

What is your method to prepare your liquid? How long do you keep it? @brassmonkey will kindly review your method.

 

Not knowing your tapering schedule, I suggest you go gradually back to a higher level. You can stop at 0.10mg for a week. Let us know how you're doing every day.

 

We need you to follow these instructions Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

 

6 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

I alway refer to dosage in milligrams of active drug. 

 

What is your method to prepare your liquid? How long do you keep it? @brassmonkey will kindly review your method.

 

Not knowing your tapering schedule, I suggest you go gradually back to a higher level. You can stop at 0.10mg for a week. Let us know how you're doing every day.

 

We need you to follow these instructions Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

Hi. This is my tapering dose and recorded on phone. This year. Bit missing in between.

I'm taking my dose very soon tonight which is 0.05mg. As I upped from 0.04mg 5 days ago.

What do you suggest I do. If you can please help I appreciate it as I live alone and desperate.

Just want a plan to stick to so I can go full into stability. Heres my recent taper...

2/4 2020 3.3333mg
2.5mg from 24/5
2mg from 2/7
10mg into 7  26/9  1.428mg
10mg into 8  30/9  1.25mg
1mg of drug 

 

Cant find records in between 

 

1st april 2021 0.05mg
0.5mg syringe from 100mg water
18th May..0.45mg syringe from 100mg water
26th June..0.4mg syringe with 100mg water.

 

Now taking 0.05mg if drug.

 

I fill 100mg spring water and dilute 10mg chlomipramine in it for 5 to 10 mins and swill around. Then I draw 0.5mg in another syringe and take on back of tongue and wash down with water. I then throw away rest and remake each day. I take it within 10 mins of mixing.

 

Hope you still there as taking in a few mins.

thank you

[Altostrata]

Suggest you increase your dosage.

 

Yes, you tapered rapidly. An updose probably will help.

[montymonkey]

2 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Suggest you increase your dosage.

 

Yes, you tapered rapidly. An updose probably will help.

Thank you but what suggestion do you make to updose over what period?

 

Do you think 0.05mg (doubling) like you said as i take 0.05mg now and three days time upping again or take it slower.

As soon as you recommend, I will go ahead and report back but im so unsure and I just want your opinion if you don't mind. I really do appreciate your help and knowledge.

I will then leave you be and report back if you can just let me know what you would do if you were me after looking at my tapering. Just want a plan to get on with.

Thank you.

 

[Altostrata]

Suggest you take 0.10mg for your first step in updosing. We need to observe the effect for some days.

[montymonkey]

OK I will double tonight then. 0.10mg from 0.05mg.

Then shall I get back to you and see in a week? Or few days?

Thank you for helping you are the only person that is.

Dont want to pester just want to know what I'm doing at then try it 

[montymonkey]

27 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Suggest you take 0.10mg for your first step in updosing. We need to observe the effect for some days.

 

montymonkey

Posted 13 minutes ago

•  

OK I will double tonight then. 0.10mg from 0.05mg.

Then shall I get back to you and see in a week? Or few days?

Thank you for helping you are the only person that is.

Dont want to pester just want to know what I'm doing and then get down to doing it.

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

We need you to follow these instructions Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

 

[montymonkey]

32 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

I dont have a computer at the moment unfortunately but I have listed my tapering from the last 2 years that I had on my phone in the messages on this thread. I kept most of them but accidentally deleted a bit in between.

 

Chlomipramine....

I started over 20 years ago and was on mostly 150mg or 200mg. Was in 250mg too. Then I slowly over time got down to 100, 80, 50, and lower all the way down to 10. That was about 4 years ago.

Then slowly got further by cutting with razor blade into lines (but like addicts make cocaine) shifted 10mg into 2 lines, then 3 and so on until I got to smallest amount i could actually cut to.

 

Then I went onto water method after finding your site.

Then..

2/4 2020    3.3333mg
2.5mg from 24/5
2mg from 2/7
10mg into 7  26/9  1.428mg
10mg into 8  30/9  1.25mg
1mg of drug 

 

Cant find records in between 

Poss jan this year 0.1mg I think

 

1st april 2021    0.05mg
0.5mg syringe from 100mg water
18th May..0.45mg syringe from 100mg water
26th June..0.4mg syringe with 100mg water..

 

i then updosed to 0.5mg this week

And

Now 0.1mg today. Same as I think i took in January.

 

Thats the sort of history I have. Hope it helps but I cant get a computer unfortunately.

 

Hope you can read this schedule as its best I can do without computer. So you can see my history.

 

I shall stay on 0.1mg unless you say otherwise after reading and report back very soon on it. Anybody else that wanted to have a look is great but 

I appreciate anybodies help on this forum. I am alone and suffering.

I wish you all well.

 

 

[Altostrata]

3 hours ago, montymonkey said:

Then shall I get back to you and see in a week? Or few days?

 

It will take several days for this change to fully take effect. Please let us know of any unusual symptoms every day.

[montymonkey]

43 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

It will take several days for this change to fully take effect. Please let us know of any unusual symptoms every day.

Thank you. 

[montymonkey]

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

It will take several days for this change to fully take effect. Please let us know of any unusual symptoms every day.

Really felt like it made  difference to my sleep and felt a bit better in morning and then wham! Massive anxiety, panic, floods af adrenaline and palpitations. Fear floods me. Can't wait to take next dose. Maybe it was all in my head but it seemed to make an immediate difference. Maybe its because you are helping me. But it crept up on me and is as bad as yesterday now. Just later in the day. 

I assume I take 0.1mg again tonight. Any idea of next stage of updosing and when? I know I'm jumping the gun. Just wondering about a plan. I just want to feel stable again and then discuss a taper method with people here. 

Thanks for listening.

[montymonkey]

19 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Hi. I actually think I was on 1mg of chlomipramine in January. And went to 0.05 by April. Im really lost. 

Please can you help.

Should I up dose more. I was too eager.

I felt OK at the time so kept going. Im not sure I lost my records, Im so lost with all of this. Please help.

I've found this on my phone....

 

2/4 10mg into 3.3333mg
2.5mg from 24/5
2mg from 2/7
10mg into 7  26/9  1.428mg
10mg into 8  30/9  1.25mg
1mg now. Jan

 

That was from 2020 so im led to believe i went to 1mg in jan 2021. Ive obviously mis calculated. Im not sure.

Definitely april 2021 I was on 0.05mg.

 

So lost. Just need help please

 

[montymonkey]

12 minutes ago, montymonkey said:

Hi. I actually think I was on 1mg of chlomipramine in January. And went to 0.05 by April. Im really lost. 

Please can you help.

Should I up dose more. I was too eager.

I felt OK at the time so kept going. Im not sure I lost my records, Im so lost with all of this. Please help.

I've found this on my phone....

 

2/4 10mg into 3.3333mg
2.5mg from 24/5
2mg from 2/7
10mg into 7  26/9  1.428mg
10mg into 8  30/9  1.25mg
1mg now. Jan

 

That was from 2020 so im led to believe i went to 1mg in jan 2021. Ive obviously mis calculated. Im not sure.

Definitely april 2021 I was on 0.05mg.

 

So lost. Just need help please

Im just not sure to be honest. I know it sounds crazy. Is it bad for me to updose to a bigger amount? Will I be able to jump to bigger amounts or is that not advisable?

Im panicking 

 

12 minutes ago, montymonkey said:

 

 

[montymonkey]

Im sure I can remember cutting down the pills much further than 1mg though. As I was into about 17 lines of powder at one point. Gradually went further until I had to do liquid and that was obviously when I got in touch with you. Im so lost with it all. I just want the quickest fix to get stable safely even if that means being in drug again at a smallish dose. Can you help with that please.

[montymonkey]

I can see that these notes...

 

 

2/4 10mg into 3.3333mg
2.5mg from 24/5
2mg from 2/7
10mg into 7  26/9  1.428mg
10mg into 8  30/9  1.25mg
1mg now. Jan

 

Were saved on my phone on 6th August 2020 so I must have been referring to Jan 2020 on that. 

sorry so confused and panic is immense.

I'm ever so sorry im doing this but I live alone as ive said and suffer with issues that make things hard to grasp. I get ever so confused and I panic and with this going on its made it worse. I just don't know where I'm at. 

 

 

[montymonkey]

1 hour ago, montymonkey said:

Really felt like it made  difference to my sleep and felt a bit better in morning and then wham! Massive anxiety, panic, floods af adrenaline and palpitations. Fear floods me. Can't wait to take next dose. Maybe it was all in my head but it seemed to make an immediate difference. Maybe its because you are helping me. But it crept up on me and is as bad as yesterday now. Just later in the day. 

I assume I take 0.1mg again tonight. Any idea of next stage of updosing and when? I know I'm jumping the gun. Just wondering about a plan. I just want to feel stable again and then discuss a taper method with people here. Whats the highest immediate safe kind of dose increase? Can I take .5mg now? Or 1mg or is that too bigger increase? I've got to point where I just want to feel better. What do you think in yr opinion?

Thanks for listening.

 

 

[Altostrata]

18 hours ago, Altostrata said:

It will take several days for this change to fully take effect. Please let us know of any unusual symptoms every day.

 

As it appears taking a little more made you feel better, that's going in the right direction. Please maintain dosage and observe for several days and let us know of any unusual symptoms every day.

[montymonkey]

7 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

As it appears taking a little more made you feel better, that's going in the right direction. Please maintain dosage and observe for several days and let us know of any unusual symptoms every day.

Thanks for getting back. Ive just had a terrible later day than yesterday. I took a codeine only 15mg last night so dont know if that helped as I dont take them often. I just wondered if you thought I could up it again this early as I thought I felt a bit better but now I feel terrible. I just want to get stable as quick as possible. Is it safe to up again or would you advise against it. At this time I just want to feel well and taper is last on my mind. If a bigger dose helps I woukd go for that immediately. I know I've rambled on in my posts today (not ones in reply to you( but if you could have a look at them as there's valuable information. 

Thank you for getting back and hope you can advise me just a bit more for reassurance. I do thank you. Im just wanting to feel normal again whether thats on pills or not. Whatever is quickest fix to be honest.

[Altostrata]

Taking the odd drug here and there, such as codeine, can cause a wave of unusual symptoms.

 

When I recommended observing for several days, that is what I meant. No changes.

[montymonkey]

2 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Taking the odd drug here and there, such as codeine, can cause a wave of unusual symptoms.

 

When I recommended observing for several days, that is what I meant. No changes.

OK thank you. Just wanted quickest way out of feeling like this weather it meant back on higher dose or not. Its the panic and palpations/skipped beats that bother me the most. Seem to happen a lot. I get rushes of fear and anxiety thru the roof which raises my blood pressure too. Horrid time at moment. Wish I was well again.

I am taking paracetamol for pains I assume thats OK and I cannot take codeine then? Will that make things worse? Or interfere? Just was for the bad Headaches.

[Altostrata]

How often do you take codeine, at what times of day?

 

Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take ALL your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.