ScottishLass: hello and some help please

[ScottishLass]

I think the future is bad but likely even worse than I perceive. That’s what is dawning and it's just too much. 

[Rosetta]

I know it seems that way, but a large part of this syndrome is having the feeling the future will be much worse than it will be.  Most of us here have struggled with those thoughts and feelings.  When we feel better, we look back and see that the state of our brains caused us to see the situation as worse than it was likely to be. 
 

It’s hard to overcome, but it is the reason that people become Moderators here or, like me, step in give support.  We know there is bright future for you that you cannot begin to imagine.  Imagination, like many other abilities, can be blunted by the syndrome.  What we do imagine while suffering from this syndrome is often a very bleak future.  It was the same for me.  In windows, I caught glimpses of positive outcomes.  That kept me going on some days.  
 

Please believe us when we say you are not thinking the same way you would if you were not dealing with AD WD.  If any illness lasts for weeks, the mind gets pessimistic.  Chronic pain is an example.  This may be more difficult than chronic pain in some ways and easier in others, but the pessimistic mind set of both is very problematic.  I can tell you a thousand times that there is hope when you feel that there is not, and it will be very irritating, but I do think it is both what you need to hear and the truth.

[ScottishLass]

@Rosetta

Thanks 

[ScottishLass]

@Altostrata@Gridley

Or any mods, please can you give me advice about increasing the reinstatement dose. Would it be advisable now and what increase would you suggest? 

Thanks 

SL

[Gridley]

45 minutes ago, ScottishLass said:

@Altostrata@Gridley

Or any mods, please can you give me advice about increasing the reinstatement dose. Would it be advisable now and what increase would you suggest? 

Thanks 

SL

It's been 13 days since you reinstated.  Have you noticed any improvement since you reinstated?  

[ScottishLass]

@Gridley

Initially but it’s all over the place now and WD symptoms are too much. My hands are burning, my mood is really very low, panic high, I can’t sleep properly and I feel removed from myself. I don’t think its sustainable. If I knew this would end soon it would maybe be manageable but not for much longer. That’s why I am asking about increase? I am concerned if this continues as is. I feel like I’ve had a week of some kind of hypomania which I thought was the old me. Now it feels like a massive crash. I don’t know what’s me, what’s not. How to gauge it. 

[Altostrata]

As requested before, we need to see your symptoms 24 hours at a time, in this format 

 

 

This will help tell if you're having a bad reaction to reinstatement or if it's helping. That is the information we need to see if you need to decrease the dosage, or if an increase is warranted.

 

Symptoms that "are all over the place" don't tell us anything.

[ScottishLass]

18 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I know it seems that way, but a large part of this syndrome is having the feeling the future will be much worse than it will be.  Most of us here have struggled with those thoughts and feelings.  When we feel better, we look back and see that the state of our brains caused us to see the situation as worse than it was likely to be. 
 

It’s hard to overcome, but it is the reason that people become Moderators here or, like me, step in give support.  We know there is bright future for you that you cannot begin to imagine.  Imagination, like many other abilities, can be blunted by the syndrome.  What we do imagine while suffering from this syndrome is often a very bleak future.  It was the same for me.  In windows, I caught glimpses of positive outcomes.  That kept me going on some days.  
 

Please believe us when we say you are not thinking the same way you would if you were not dealing with AD WD.  If any illness lasts for weeks, the mind gets pessimistic.  Chronic pain is an example.  This may be more difficult than chronic pain in some ways and easier in others, but the pessimistic mind set of both is very problematic.  I can tell you a thousand times that there is hope when you feel that there is not, and it will be very irritating, but I do think it is both what you need to hear and the truth.

@Rosetta

Thank u so much for this.🙏🏻 It was so welcome and really needed. It’s been a really difficult, dark few days.  However, I have taken heed of your words and am out of the house and now sat beside a beautiful stream in the sunshine nearby and things seem a little more possible. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 Thanks for your kindness, it saved the day...

[Rosetta]

You are welcome.  One thing that is nice about SA is that we can read that sort of thing anytime, and we can read other threads for inspiration.  Reading other people’s threads can be upsetting; there are threads in the Symptoms forum about finding strength to carry on.

[Rosetta]

 

The caveat is that we don’t recommend pushing through symptoms.  We have found it’s important to be very gentle with ourselves.  The extra stress caused by trying to force ourselves to live normal lives slows down the healing.

[ScottishLass]

5 hours ago, Rosetta said:

 

The caveat is that we don’t recommend pushing through symptoms.  We have found it’s important to be very gentle with ourselves.  The extra stress caused by trying to force ourselves to live normal lives slows down the healing.

@Rosetta Thanks for the links. I will watch properly when I can. Just watched a wee bit of the ‘acceptance’ one. Strangely, I never thought about that and this process before. Pretty tough one that but so obviously half the battle when i think about it. 

Re: not pushing through symptoms  - unfortunately that is something that is taken out of your hands if you have to work, pay the mortgage etc, etc However, that is also one of the biggest stresses I agree. So difficult.  I have to try and look and live a normal life from next week when I return to work. The burden of that ‘act’ seems insurmountable at the moment.  I pray that I ‘get away’ with it. That the ‘windows’ fall at work and the ‘waves’ at home. I’m terrified. But, hoping there is a miracle and it works. Suspect I am setting myself up to fall but there is no choice. Otherwise 🤦‍♀️🤯

Thanks again 

SL

[ScottishLass]

Seriously considering going back onto the AD’s full dose.

I am so angry at these fecking drugs ever being in my system.

Feeling so trapped.

On them they will take away all my motivation and point to life, not a life in my eyes. However  these WD symptoms are beyond me. I am unhinged. Unable to function. Terrified of everything. What an absolute nightmare.  HOW CAN THIS BE OK drs throwing out meds like sweeties, not informing people,  then denying any issues with WD etc WTF. I am so at the end of this. So ******* tired. 

 

[Rosetta]

I understand how you feel.  The anger.  The frustration.  The disbelief.  The exhaustion.  
 

Full dose will almost certainly, in my opinion, cause symptoms much worse than demotivation or tiredness.  Incessant activation is much worse than tiredness.  You would be risking that and risking insomnia.   People assume that they will feel the same way they did the last time that they were on the full dose.  That is very rarely what happens.  
 

Reinstatement should never be done with a full dose after several days or weeks off the drug.  Ultimately, no one can tell you if it will go well.  That’s why you need to start with a tiny amount -  probably less than 1 mg given the time that has passed since your last attempt.  This is so very important - to start very low.  If the dose is not tolerable for your system, it will have been a tiny amount instead of a lot.  You will need to post daily notes if you do try a reinstatement.  That is the only way I know of to determine whether the reinstatement is helping or hurting.

 

You are probably in a wave that is building up or has peaked.  Give it some time and then — if you still feel you need to reinstate —- ask for advice about reinstating a teeny amount.  The answer might be that it’s too risky, but I don’t know for sure.  I’m not very knowledgeable about reinstatement, and it’s contraindications.  I understand the basics, but the Mods can give you more info to help you decide.

[Rosetta]

I hope you are feeling ok today.  
 

Rosetta🦋

[ScottishLass]

On 4/28/2021 at 6:05 AM, Rosetta said:

I hope you are feeling ok today.  
 

Rosetta🦋

Thank you. It is tougher than I ever imagined. No words. 

[Rosetta]

Yes, I know.  I found that I had to get angry and decide that I was not going to let the people who did this to me effectively kill me.

[ScottishLass]

I don’t know 

[hayduke]

It's nothing less than a mass atrocity in progress.

 

When I started reading Breggin a few years back and how bad this all is started dawning (at 1:30am on a school night, natch) it felt terribly personal.  Why would they do this to me?

 

Reading on, and finding the site here, from the point of view of the perpetrators of this injustice, it's not _that_ personal.  It helps to realise we're among millions targetted by these creeps.

 

But of course it is ultimately personal at the same time.  It impacts our lives, perceptions, relationships, everything.

 

I agree with Rosetta, learning to channel your anger safely and healthily is a huge part of dealing with this.  We bloody well should be angry for what's been done.  Video games, exercise, writing, many others...there are a lot of good outlets that won't cause more backfires and strife.  Though keeping that balance can certainly be an effort!

 

Anyways wanted to say hi and yes it all sucks massive arse but better to be trudging towards the way out than remain in the doldrums.

 

Cheers

 

[ScottishLass]

29 minutes ago, hayduke said:

It's nothing less than a mass atrocity in progress.

 

When I started reading Breggin a few years back and how bad this all is started dawning (at 1:30am on a school night, natch) it felt terribly personal.  Why would they do this to me?

 

Reading on, and finding the site here, from the point of view of the perpetrators of this injustice, it's not _that_ personal.  It helps to realise we're among millions targetted by these creeps.

 

But of course it is ultimately personal at the same time.  It impacts our lives, perceptions, relationships, everything.

 

I agree with Rosetta, learning to channel your anger safely and healthily is a huge part of dealing with this.  We bloody well should be angry for what's been done.  Video games, exercise, writing, many others...there are a lot of good outlets that won't cause more backfires and strife.  Though keeping that balance can certainly be an effort!

 

Anyways wanted to say hi and yes it all sucks massive arse but better to be trudging towards the way out than remain in the doldrums.

 

Cheers

 

Hi 👋🏻

Thanks! I am trying. So, so hard.  More than I ever have.  It’s just when it’s over and over. When you feel so emotionally ***** and out of control and you don’t know for how long. I was due to go back to work next week after 3 months off already. Today realised that’s not possible. Relieved, gutted, ******* terrified. Spent the morning attempting to speak with GP trying to sort stuff for work......no appointments for 2 weeks, rude fricking medical receptionist/gate keepers. So frustrating and dismissive and triggering. You ******* drs put me on this....don’t shut the door in my face now. Oh....sorry you have. Blaaaaaaaahhhhhhh! It feels very black just now. Exhausting....but I’ll pick myself up. Get the energy, focus to post symptoms here so I can utilise the knowledge of the mods and think of and THANK all for the kindness on here.....which pulls me back from the brink. Each drop in, comment, check in....is amazing to me. 

Thanks SL

 

[Rosetta]

((Scottish Lass)) (That’s a hug.)

[ScottishLass]

48 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

((Scottish Lass)) (That’s a hug.)

@Rosettathank you so much

[getofflex]

6 hours ago, ScottishLass said:

You ******* drs put me on this....don’t shut the door in my face now. Oh....sorry you have.

I so feel you on this.  I gave up on doctors and came here over 2 years ago and got real help.  The trick is to realize that a drug will not solve this problem, just time and endurance.  

[ScottishLass]

17 hours ago, getofflex said:

I so feel you on this.  I gave up on doctors and came here over 2 years ago and got real help.  The trick is to realize that a drug will not solve this problem, just time and endurance.  

Hi 

Thank u @getofflex

Yes. Absolutely a drug won’t solve this. How much to endure though. 

 

[ScottishLass]

Back in the game! **** this ****. Worth more than that. Onwards and upwards. Thanks all 🙏🏻

[Rosetta]

Hi, SL.  How are you?  Are you hanging in there?  Just checking on you.

-Rosetta🧚🏻‍♀️

[ScottishLass]

14 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Hi, SL.  How are you?  Are you hanging in there?  Just checking on you.

-Rosetta🧚🏻‍♀️

Hi @Rosetta

Treading water. Trying to get the headspace to post symptoms as suggested to  get advice on reinstatement/increase etc. Have been so tempted at points to give in and go back onto sôme form of AD as WD has been so difficult this far and frightening at times. I haven't been able to go back to work this week as planned which is another stress. My sleep is also still really terrible so I don't think that is helping.  However, today was ok.....just holding on to that. I just get so panicked when I think that this way of managing may be longer term. I can't perceive how that is sustainable. It's too much and so sad. One moment at a time I guess.  I'm praying that things will improve soon.   I hope you are well. Thank you for your kindness. 🙏🏻😊 X 

SL 

[Rosetta]

You are welcome.  
 

Are you still taking 250 mg of magnesium and 1200 mg of fish oil?  I didn’t notice those doses of Mag and Fish oil.  Maybe you should reduce those doses.  Do you have diarrhea?  Magnesium causes cramps and diarrhea for me.  I wasn’t able to tolerate even 100 mg.  You might try to go a few days on very small doses of your supplements and see what happens.
 

How much Vit D and Calcium do you take.

The daily notes are quite important.  I know it must seem impossible to do those, but it would be very helpful to know if you are getting any adverse effects.  Please post your schedule for when you take the drugs and the supplements.  If you can’t post symptoms yet, at least show the schedule.  Then, start to notice when you have certain symptoms.  After you start to do that, perhaps you can post the daily notes.  Baby steps?

[ScottishLass]

@Rosetta

thanks. Yes I have had diarrhoea for the past weeks, thought it was WD  - but maybe you are right and it is the magnesium or omega. I stopped  those today for a few days to see if  any difference.

Today was bad. My mood is black, explosive and erratic. I am so irrational with thoughts I've never had before. I don't understand. Don't know what's what.  I'm starting to think that this is worse than AD's. I certainly wouldnt go back on Duloxetine but starting to entertain if I should be considering an alternative. I'm not sure I can keep this up. I'm so scared. I have a doc appt next Wednesday and was going to try and discuss AD WD, symptoms, fears, my absolute wish to not take any drugs, ask for their support in this WD and for advice doing this well but I'm so worried. Worried they will say...this is relapse not WD and show me kindness and I will give in and say yeh...I can't do this.....you're right. I'm scared because It's not illness is it.....it's what these drugs have caused. I'm scared because I don't think I can cope with WD.  I'm scared of the absolute nightmare of an alternative that is going back on meds.  I can't get out this loop of feeling so trapped. That there isn't a solution.  Sorry 

[Rosetta]

We have all been where you are now. So scared.  It takes time to find a degree of acceptance that this is happening to you.  You won’t come to that overnight.  
 

There is a thread here about talking to your doctor.  I hope you don’t expect him/her to agree that AD withdrawal can be serious or last a while.  It’s possible, but unlikely that will happen.  It is likely that the doctor will try to prescribe something.  It’s what they do.  
 

I think it would be hard for a doctor to tell someone to her face that no drug is going to fix this — even if the doctor believed that to be true.  They expect a very negative reaction when they can’t give someone a solution.  Plus, they don’t seem to realize just how I much harm these drugs can do to someone in WD.  Most do not know that dysautonomia is a result of ADWD.  Most don’t know what dysautonomia is.  
 

As I read through the threads here for weeks after I found SA, I realized that taking a different drug than Zoloft could only hurt me.  I had had the experience of being switched directly from Celexa to Zoloft.  At first, I had insomnia and anxiety, but the intensity of them came in windows and waves.  I didn’t realize that was what they were.  I felt very, very bad at times, and the doctor raised the dose.  As the dose was raised, I became sicker and sicker.  What I needed was the drug I took until the day my baby was born, not Zoloft.  After five years on Zoloft, I needed Zoloft.
 

Perhaps you are getting 1 mg of  Duloxetine, but you have to wait for your system to calm down a bit.  Am I correct that you are taking 1mg?  Or you decided to stop it?  Either way, your system will calm down.  It may take a while.
 

I hope that taking a break from magnesium and Fish oil will help.  You can add a small amount of one or the other back in, one at a time, in a couple of weeks.
 

Diarrhea can be caused by withdrawal.  For me, PMS increased my withdrawal symptoms and diarrhea  was a part of that.  However, the correlation between magnesium and diarrhea was unmistakable, and it’s a known side effect of magnesium.

 

One thing that you may have trouble remembering is that waves end, the symptoms become less intense and you will return to a more tolerable form of WD.  This is temporary.  Please try to distract yourself until the wave ends.
 

 

[ScottishLass]

@Rosetta

thanks 🙏🏻

I think ur right re the magnesium or omega causing diarrhoea...much less today so far. 

My mood and sleep are just so awful though. I feel in shock, exhausted, panicked and am really fearful and sad about the future. Feel like my fingers are slipping from the edge of the cliff now.

I’m so confused. What if I am ill.  What if I need AD’s. What if I’m making myself worse. Or...have ruined my nervous system with use of them over the years that none of this will work. This is it. 

 

You are right...the Dr will dismiss, offer drugs and say goodbye. Jesus.

WTF. 

 

Why is there no recognition, no support for people?? How do you know if it’s WD or your Ill. How do you know, get through WD without that ruining your life (I’m close to job loss, my relationship at its end) OR the process killing you along the way?  What if I’m making things worse. Who the **** am I. I don’t know anymore. 

I don’t know where to turn in the real world. I feel so alone. 

 

 

[Rosetta]

You aren’t alone.  This forum is full of people because there is no recognition.  It took me months of reading this forum to realize I had prolonged AD WD or PWS.  I wasn’t sure because it seemed so incredible that doctors would do this to me!  Switching a mother’s AD from 60 mg of Celexa to 10 mg of Zoloft on the first night after her baby is born?!  That wasn’t even necessary.  Now, the latest is that Celexa is ok for nursing mothers.

 

You are not ill independent of the AD withdrawal.  This is not permanent.  I hope you can believe that.

[Rosetta]

The omega might be ok.  It’s the mag that causes diarrhea, but I would take a much smaller dose of the omega and work your way up slowly.

[Rosetta]

Feeling that you don’t know who you are is very common in the midst of ADWD.  It will fade.  I know that it’s a horrible feeling because I have been there.  
 

I sorry that your partner isn’t understanding.  There is a book by Robert Whitaker called Anatomy of an Epidemic.  Maybe your partner will read it?  You should read it, too.  It will explain a lot.

[ScottishLass]

@Rosetta

sorry for what u have been through/going through. You are incredible on here. X

[hayduke]

Hey ScottishLass,

 

If it’s unbearable to the point that key relationships and income are getting much harder than usual to navigate, and you’re saying you’re worried about that?…you might want to consider reinstating a small amount.  It’s not ideal, but I know that if I had to taper faster than I have, I wouldn’t have coped with going up the shops much let alone keeping my life in running.

 

Others could advise suggested levels if you wanted to try this, but I understand it’s typically much less than your previous dose.  The idea would be to alleviate the worst of your wd discomfort and stabilise for some time, then look at a gentler taper once you’re ready.

 

Also want to say thank you to @Rosetta for being here with you.

 

You know @ScottishLass in the worst of it long ago I decided to just keep putting one foot in front of the other, thinking of a stoic friend’s advice.  Eventually it has to start improving, then even later what seemed impossible becomes something you do daily and smile… *hugs*
 

Or as a great Sikh friend quoted me “this too shall pass”

[ScottishLass]

@hayduke Thank you 🙏🏻

Yes, I increased to 2mg today instead of 1mg in panic at everything ....didn't know what else to do. Then beat myself up royally.  Relationships and income aren't even being navigated now....and that realisation scares me as that could become a perfect storm for not managing anything and veering out of control further.  Everything feels so fragile.  Have struggled to get it together to track and post daily meds/symptoms but will try and think that through and post them for mod advice.  Moment to moment, that's what I'm attempting - one foot in front of the other...yes....then the rage bubbles up at having to. But...that's all there is I guess. Thanks for wise words and hug. 

Really appreciated.

SL