Kris73: Prozac cold turkey after 25+ years

[Kris73]

Hi. New to Surviving Antidepressants.

Seeking support as I recently stopped taking Prozac after approx 25-30 years. I Felt it wasn't working, and I was only taking it because I was afraid not to. 

After telephone consultation with new psychiatrist, I was advised to simply stop the medication. I felt it was not doing anything and was little better than a placebo. This was 22 Feb this year, almost six weeks ago. I was surprised there was no tapering off period. Although I do know 20 mg is lowest dose available, there is a liquid form of fluoxetine (which surely could be used to taper).  Since then, I notice episodes of tearfulness where tears are pouring and very difficult to stop. I'm having episodes of rage too. Not just irritability or anger, quite wild and scary feelings of rage. I don't like feeling like this. It's not me. The more I read, the more I am convinced it's due to the abrupt withdrawal of 20mg Prozac. Over the years I have been on various doses. The last time I consulted a doctor regarding mood issues was January 2020.  She advised increasing from 20 to 40 mg. I felt no benefit, nothing. A few years ago, I did have a brief spell on Effexor, but switched back to Prozac as I felt no difference or benefit.

I do believe there is an element of tolerance in long term use? 

Also have been told that some people are genetically deficient in serotonin, so simply need antidepressants, just as a diabetic needs insulin.

I recently (last week) increased my intake of omega 3 fish oil to 1000mg and also take Vitamin C, Vitamin D3 (for MS - in remission), Vitamin B complex, Magnesium and Zinc.

Any advice or support would be gratefully received.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @Kris73

 

Yes, one may become tolerant to a psychiatric drug and find it loses effect.

 

However, your current symptoms are most likely withdrawal syndrome. How have your symptoms changed in the last month?

 

No one has a serotonin deficiency, that's a pharma-sponsored folktale.

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[Addax]

Hi Kris.

I’m a survivor of Prozac withdrawal and taper. I was on Prozac for 26 years before I successfully tapered from 60 to 20 mg. I took a break from tapering for several years and am now tapering again. 
one of the things I realized I never talked about and hadn’t attributed to withdrawal until I saw other people’s stories was the rage you’re talking about. I had stopped cold turkey in 2012. At the time I had no idea about withdrawal or that that was what I was experiencing. It wasn’t until I went into withdrawal again in 2014 and then found this site that I realized my experience in 2012 had been withdrawal. In any event, that anger and rage felt horrible and almost uncontrollable.  I felt it toward my dogs. I was successful in not acting on it other then trying to get away from them, but it was horrible and scary, and it wasn’t me. My dogs were my heart and to feel so much anger toward them when I never had before was incredibly unsettling.  It stopped as soon as I reintroduced Prozac, and it didn’t return during my second battle with withdrawal 2 years later.

 

I suspect you may be right about the rage being a symptom of withdrawal. I’m a little rusty as I haven’t been on this site for awhile, so I can’t direct you on where to go to read about reinstatement and such, but I’m sure if you search the forums you’ll find a ton of helpful information. You’ll also get replies here, so stay tuned! 
 

You will get through this. You’ll see.

[Kris73]

Hi, I don't know if I'm doing this correctly, advised to start an Introduction topic for myself a few weeks ago, when I first came on the site.  I've not been back on due to lack of motivation, hope that things would get better given time, and the general upheaval that has been caused mentally by stopping Fluoxetine.  However, I'm now feeling I need to make the effort if I'm to get any help and advice.  Going it alone is not working!  I'm not sure what to do, I have been off Fluoxetine 20mg for almost three months without taper, as advised by psychiatrist, when I expressed my wish to be drug free.  Over the last three months things have deteriorated - in terms of extreme mood swings (particularly almost uncontrollable tearfulness, extreme irritability which verges on rage at times.  I also feel very "slowed down" - mentally and exhausted, not to mention forgetful).

I'm looking for advice/info regarding how I should proceed.  I'm almost at the end of my tether.  I don't know where to start.  Should I go back on meds.  and which meds etc.  If I only knew how long this might last, I might be able to cope, but I guess everyone is different.  Also, I live in the UK, at the moment we can only really speak to a doctor on the telephone due to restrictions, and I am also not good at using the telephone - quite phobic.  I am pretty sure the doctors will just say it's a relapse of depression and go back on the anti-depressant.  I have very little faith in the medical profession as a result of my experiences.  Particularly, being told to stop AD without tapering.

Another factor is, when I first started on anti-depressants, I was teenaged, possibly 18-19 years old (I'm now almost 48), so I don't know what's "normal" for me, except being on anti-depressants/medicated.  I don't know myself, except the medicated me.  However, I do know that life at the moment is pretty unbearable, not only for me, but my husband.

Any information, advice, pointers would be gratefully received.

  

[getofflex]

Previous post moved to your intro topic to keep your history all in one place.  Please post questions and discussion about your situation in this one thread, to avoid confusion and duplication of efforts.  Thank you.  

 

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a peer owned and run forum of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  I'm very sorry to hear you are going through this painful situation.  Frankly, I would like to choke you doctor for telling you to go off cold turkey, especially after being on it so long.  

 

First of all, can you please give us more specific information about your drug history for all drugs you are on and have been on for the past 18-24 months?  It would be especially helpful to have the details of your drugs in a concise list (no symptoms), only drug names, specific dates (as best you can say for example early March if you don't recall the day) and dosages of each medication decrease or increase.  Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

Here is some information about how these drugs actually work.  

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

What is Withdrawal Syndrome?

 

 

Also, as we are recovering, we suggest keeping things slow, simple, and stable. This is extremely important. 

 

Considerations About Stability Stop Jumping Around

 

Keep it Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

When we recover, there are times of feeling OK mixed in with times of feeling bad.  This is called windows and waves.

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

 

Magnesium

 

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

I would suggest a small reinstatement to try to lessen your withdrawal symptoms and make them bearable, with the liquid fluoxetine. Going back on a small dose of your drug, which we call reinstatement, is best done very carefully.  This is temporary, and after stabilizing you would then taper gradually off of this.  There is some risk involved, and we need more specifics about your drug history before we can suggest a good dose at which to reinstate.  Here is some information about reinstatement.  

 

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Reduce Withdrawal Symptoms

 

I've given you quite a bit of information here.  Please read through it, and mull it over, and we will take it from there. In the meantime, take care of yourself, and take heart.  We in this forum have been through this, and we understand first hand the pain and discomfort you are going through.  Please know that the brain is amazing in it's healing abilities.  It takes time, but healing can and will happen. 

 

[Kris73]

Thank you for your response, it is very much appreciated.  I have contacted the doctor this morning and await a response.

 

This is my anti-depressant history since May 2019

 

May 2019 - Feb 2020 Fluoxetine 20mg

Feb 9 2020 Fluoxetine increased to 40 mg by GP.

Felt no benefit from 40mg so went back to 20mg ?May/June 2020 (unsure)

20mg Fluoxetine May 2020 - Feb 23 2021. 

 

Other meds, Cerazette (progesterone only pill), recently started Cetirizine (antihistamine for allergy)

 

Hopeful GP will prescribe Fluoxetine liquid.  As well as the tearfulness/rage I'm also noting some anxiety (esp this morning while waiting to hear from GP, and also some recent social anxiety - meeting people/being in crowds/going shopping for food) 

 

In terms of supplements, I take omega 3, magnesium approx 300mg, Vit B complex, Vitamin D.  I have never used sleeping tablets.

 

Thanks also for the links to extra information, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help.  It has been a lonely and scary few months.

 

Going to read now.. 

[Kris73]

Well, I finally spoke to the doctor late yesterday afternoon.  I think they were totally thrown by the request for Fluoxetine liquid.

 

Before speaking to the actual GP, I had a pharmacist try to intercept and fob me off with 20mg Fluox (because that's the starting dose and that's the dose you WERE on, and that's just how it's done.).  Absolutely zero awareness or acceptance of withdrawal symptoms after stopping AD cold turkey.  I insisted that I did not want to go straight back to 20 mg capsule - I could have done that myself because I still have plenty of capsules left from before I came off.  So frustrating.

 

Eventually spoke to lady GP.  While she was not particularly accepting that people can experience WD from stopping AD, she did listen to me and the reasoning for my request.  I highlighted that I had not had a taper off the Fluox in Feb, and that I suspect this is the reason for Withdrawal symptoms I am currently experiencing (as well as the length of time on med), and that the patient insert information sheet in the med box states there should be withdrawal of at least one to two weeks (HAHA) with Fluoxetine, and that the Royal College of Psychiatrists in GB have stated in a recent publication (2021) that withdrawal effects can and do occur, and vary in severity.  The GP (as did psych in Feb) also stated that Fluox leaves the system in approx 6 days (also refuted by RCP, they state it can take weeks, not days for Fluox to leave the system.) These people are obviously not up to date with their information.  Also in the UK, NICE (National Institute for Clinical Excellence, regulatory body for medicines) in 2019, updated the guidelines for depression to reflect "severity and length for withdrawal symptoms". 

 

The upshot is that she agreed to prescribe Fluox liquid at 2.5ml (10mg) for four weeks and then reduce to 1.25 ml (5mg).  Obviously completely missing the point that I need to reinstate to potentially relieve the withdrawal symptoms, before weaning of this.  She seemed to latch on to my point about not having a taper, and that this will give me a "taper".  DOH, the Fluox is now out of my system - I can't taper from zero.  Jeez!!!   The arrogance of some medics is astounding, but I expect it will be the same with my review appointment with psych at the end of June. Obviously I didn't say this, was glad to get the liquid prescribed at all!  I will be able to negotiate this in four weeks when I phone for review/update.

 

I have collected the Px today and plan to start on Monday at 10mg (if mod thinks this is sensible?)  I have to admit I am very nervous.  And also acutely aware that the AD is out of my system and I'll be putting it back in!

 

Also I have read through the info sent yesterday by Getofflex and it all makes sense.  Very interested in the Magnesium info.  I have been taking Mag, but somewhat haphazardly (maybe 200mg in am followed by 100mg before bed, and sometimes not taking all) and I didn't realise it might be better to take three or four times a day.  I was also taking VitB complex at same time as morning dose, not realising B6 can interact.  So I have omitted B complex today and I will discontinue it for present to see if it makes any difference to me.

 

Thanks again for your input.  I'm now in a much better frame of mind having taken this first step.  Fingers crossed it helps! 

[getofflex]

Hello, I'm glad you got to talk to your doctor.  Here is a link about suggestions on how to talk to medical professionals about withdrawal:

 

How to Talk to Medical People About Tapering and Withdrawal

 

The issue is not just how long it takes the drug to leave the system.  It's that the nervous system has adapted and made changes to itself due to the presence of the drug, and now has to undo all those changes to go back to it's predrug state.  This often takes months if not years, depending on various factors, one of which is how long a person was on the drug.   How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain. If would be great if you could discuss this with your doctor, and get her to see the importance of a careful reinstatement, then doing a very gradual 10% per month taper after you stabilize.  

 

3 hours ago, Kris73 said:

I have collected the Px today and plan to start on Monday at 10mg (if mod thinks this is sensible?)

No, we do not suggest going back on that high of a dose.  It could possibly be too big of a change for your nervous system.  We suggest reinstating at a very low dose, to test the waters and see how you react to it.  I suggest starting at only 1 mg.  Please read the link in my previous post about reinstating.  Stay on this a week, and see how you feel.  Then we can take it from there.  

 

3 hours ago, Kris73 said:

So I have omitted B complex today and I will discontinue it for present to see if it makes any difference to me.

I'm glad you omitted vitamin B, as it can be activating to the nervous system and exacerbate withdrawal symptoms.  

 

There is a moderate drug interaction between two of your meds.  I don't know how big of a deal this will be if you are on such a small dose of fluoxetine - just something to be aware of.  Here is the information from drugs.com: 

 

Interactions between your drugs

Moderate

FLUoxetine  cetirizine

Applies to: fluoxetine, cetirizine

Using cetirizine together with FLUoxetine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid driving, operating machinery, or engaging in potentially hazardous activities requiring mental alertness and motor coordination until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

Please keep us posted, and let us know how you are doing after your reinstatement. 

 

 

[Kris73]

Hi there, thanks again for your input.

My calculation then is 0.25ml for 1mg Fluoxetine? Is this correct.

I appreciate that my nervous system may now be extra sensitive given cold turkey withdrawal. So a very very small dose makes sense. I will give it a week and see how this goes.

Also, regards the cetirizine for allergies, would this be the same for other antihistamines? Thinking specifically of loratadine? In the interests of improvement to my mental health which is my prime consideration, I'll discontinue the cetirizine while reinstating 1mg fluox. I don't know how the cetirizine may affect me when reinstating - I don't find at present it gives me side effects like drowsiness, and I do accept that I need to be really careful with the reinstatement as my nervous system is likely to be hyper sensitive.

The doctor provided two bottles of liquid so I have 140ml...plenty to get started. I won't need to worry about running low and having to convince Dr to prescribe more.

Thanks again👍

 

 

 

 

 

[getofflex]

On 5/22/2021 at 12:48 AM, Kris73 said:

My calculation then is 0.25ml for 1mg Fluoxetine? Is this correct.

I'm not sure.  Please check with your pharmacist - they should know.  Here is the thread for tapering and dosing fluoxetine.  

 

Tips for Dosing and Tapering Fluoxetine

 

 

On 5/22/2021 at 12:48 AM, Kris73 said:

Also, regards the cetirizine for allergies, would this be the same for other antihistamines? Thinking specifically of loratadine?

 

We at SA do not give guidance on other drugs besides tapering off psych meds.  

On 5/22/2021 at 12:48 AM, Kris73 said:

I'll discontinue the cetirizine while reinstating 1mg fluox. I don't know how the cetirizine may affect me when reinstating

That sounds reasonable to me.

 

It sounds like you are on the right track. Keep us posted.  

[Kris73]

Great, thanks again for the excellent information! This morning I start back on 1mg. Tips for tapering link confirms 0.25ml for 1mg fluoxetine. 🙏

[getofflex]

Sounds good.  Give it at least a week, perhaps 2, to allow the reinstatement to take effect and for things to settle.  If it makes you feel worse, then stop.  Let us know how you are doing.

[Kris73]

On 5/24/2021 at 9:27 PM, getofflex said:

Sounds good.  Give it at least a week, perhaps 2, to allow the reinstatement to take effect and for things to settle.  If it makes you feel worse, then stop.  Let us know how you are doing.

Will do, many thanks again

[Kris73]

On 4/14/2021 at 3:39 AM, Addax said:

Hi Kris.

I’m a survivor of Prozac withdrawal and taper. I was on Prozac for 26 years before I successfully tapered from 60 to 20 mg. I took a break from tapering for several years and am now tapering again. 
one of the things I realized I never talked about and hadn’t attributed to withdrawal until I saw other people’s stories was the rage you’re talking about. I had stopped cold turkey in 2012. At the time I had no idea about withdrawal or that that was what I was experiencing. It wasn’t until I went into withdrawal again in 2014 and then found this site that I realized my experience in 2012 had been withdrawal. In any event, that anger and rage felt horrible and almost uncontrollable.  I felt it toward my dogs. I was successful in not acting on it other then trying to get away from them, but it was horrible and scary, and it wasn’t me. My dogs were my heart and to feel so much anger toward them when I never had before was incredibly unsettling.  It stopped as soon as I reintroduced Prozac, and it didn’t return during my second battle with withdrawal 2 years later.

 

I suspect you may be right about the rage being a symptom of withdrawal. I’m a little rusty as I haven’t been on this site for awhile, so I can’t direct you on where to go to read about reinstatement and such, but I’m sure if you search the forums you’ll find a ton of helpful information. You’ll also get replies here, so stay tuned! 
 

You will get through this. You’ll see.

Thanks for your reply in April re rage.  I got a little lost after my first posts - denial and hope that that symptoms would go away.  Just catching up now...  It's good to know that I'm not alone with this rage thing.  It made me feel awful, the dogs are just being dogs after all.  thankfully I didn't act on those feelings!! I love my dogs so much and they are my reason for getting up in the morning! 

I hope things are good for you now, and the withdrawal stuff is behind you.  thanks again 

[Kris73]

On 5/26/2021 at 2:17 PM, Kris73 said:

On 5/24/2021 at 9:27 PM, getofflex said:

Sounds good.  Give it at least a week, perhaps 2, to allow the reinstatement to take effect and for things to settle.  If it makes you feel worse, then stop.  Let us know how you are doing.

Hi again

Update since reinstating 1mg Fluoxetine on Monday 24 May.

The first week, I was still experiencing tearfulness, however, maybe not to the intensity I had been.  First couple of days, headachy and weak feeling with some tiredness.  

Over the last 10-12 days I have noticed an increase in anxiety (however, not sure if that was always there and I just hadn't noted it as much, given that I am now hyper-aware of these things given the re-instatement)

I have also noted my stomach feels more delicate than normal, although no diarrhoea or anything like that.  

Second week I don't think I have been as tearful, however, last couple of days I have noticed the irritability and anger creeping back in.  I have been feeling tired though because it is quite warm overnight recently and difficult to sleep.  I have been finding it difficult to stay awake beyond 7-8pm and wakening 3-4 am with periods of wakefulness through the night.

I don't think there has been a substantial improvement, maybe a slight lessening in intensity of neuro-emotions.  This still feels like a really bad roller coaster ride!  BUT, do I feel worse?  No, I don't think so...

I have felt more motivated to be trying to distract myself with chores and getting out on my bike, given the weather has improved.

Last week I also wrote to my GP with copies of articles - Royal Coll of Psychiatry Stopping Antidepressants, and an article on how the tide is turning regarding recognition of withdrawal symptoms, and also what I am doing with the liquid fluoxetine, starting with 1mg.  

It is so very hard when you feel that medicine is against you, or at the very least unaccepting of what my/our experience is.  I do ruminate quite a lot on what is/has happened to me and feel quite angry.  I get so very stressed if i need to speak to/contact doctors.  I do have a review appointment with the pyschiatrist at the end of June, and I am already worrying about it.

Although I have just read Altostrata's interview in Mad In America, which helps a lot, especially the advice on how to deal with medics.  At the moment It feels easier said than done.

Any pointers, info and guidance will be very much appreciated!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[getofflex]

10 hours ago, Kris73 said:

I don't think there has been a substantial improvement, maybe a slight lessening in intensity of neuro-emotions.  This still feels like a really bad roller coaster ride!  BUT, do I feel worse?  No, I don't think so...

 

I said the very same thing about the roller coaster ride at one time - it's the classic windows and waves pattern of recovery.  (see link in my first post) From what you are saying, it sounds to me like overall, the reinstatement has helped a little bit.  This is good.  A reinstatement won't make it all go away, it just lessens the  WD symptoms.  It may take several months for the benefits of a reinstatement to fall into place, and you may feel some more improvement.  In my opinion, a lot of your emotions may be true emotions, not just neuro emotions.  You definitely have legitimate reasons to be angry, in my opinion, with the shoddy way that your doctor and pharmacist have handled your case.  In my personal experience, my genuine emotions are amplified by the fact that my nervous system is very sensitive.  This could be the case for you, as well.  

 

My suggestion would be to stay on the 1 mg of liquid fluoxetine for a while longer, and allow your nervous system to settle down and stabilize.  Try to keep your life simple, and reduce stress where you can.  Rest, take gentle walks as you are able, eat a healthy diet of whole natural foods if you can, avoid drama and toxic people if possible, and avoid excess stimulation.  These are all things that work for me.  Keep us posted, and hang in there.  This, too, shall pass.  

Edited June 5, 2021 by getofflex

[Toast]

Hi @Kris73,

 

Really sorry to hear about your struggling. I also experienced a lot of (uncharacteristic, for me) rage coming off of Prozac; like Addax mentioned, I think this is a pretty common symptom of coming off of Prozac and it is infuriating that recognition of this (and other withdrawal symptoms) is happening so slowly by medical practitioners. My withdrawal was misdiagnosed as relapse (despite it consisting of symptoms I had previously never experienced in my life), and I had to figure out my taper strategy on my own (and with the help of resources like Surviving Antidepressants -- you are in the right place!). 

 

I see you've been on Prozac for a long time (I can relate here as well) -- I would caution you to be conservative in your tapering. I think you have a good plan, but don't be afraid to take longer than you might have initially planned. I had initially planned for a six-month taper off, but I'm thinking now my taper off may be around two years. The brain needs time to heal and these medications are much more powerful than we have been told. 

 

Take care of yourself! ❤️ 

[arbor]

Oh @Kris73--I can so relate to the shocking rage in going off Fluoxetine.  What it does to the brain--nearly unbearable.  Please hang in there.  I just know it will with time get better for you.

Arbor

[Kris73]

On 6/5/2021 at 8:12 PM, getofflex said:

 

I said the very same thing about the roller coaster ride at one time - it's the classic windows and waves pattern of recovery.  (see link in my first post) From what you are saying, it sounds to me like overall, the reinstatement has helped a little bit.  This is good.  A reinstatement won't make it all go away, it just lessens the  WD symptoms.  It may take several months for the benefits of a reinstatement to fall into place, and you may feel some more improvement.  In my opinion, a lot of your emotions may be true emotions, not just neuro emotions.  You definitely have legitimate reasons to be angry, in my opinion, with the shoddy way that your doctor and pharmacist have handled your case.  In my personal experience, my genuine emotions are amplified by the fact that my nervous system is very sensitive.  This could be the case for you, as well.  

 

My suggestion would be to stay on the 1 mg of liquid fluoxetine for a while longer, and allow your nervous system to settle down and stabilize.  Try to keep your life simple, and reduce stress where you can.  Rest, take gentle walks as you are able, eat a healthy diet of whole natural foods if you can, avoid drama and toxic people if possible, and avoid excess stimulation.  These are all things that work for me.  Keep us posted, and hang in there.  This, too, shall pass.  

Hi there

Thanks for the advice. This week has been horrendous. The tiniest thing is blown totally out of proportion. I feel out of control at times. Also noticing the anxiety, especially in the mornings. I also have this feeling of "inner tension" - only way I can think of to describe it. 

Having some very dark thoughts, struggling to cope with dogs and tiny day to day issues. Also my brain feels like it is blank, this is the first time I have felt scared and almost unable to cope😢. The avoiding drama: it's me that's causing the drama! By struggling to cope with my emotions. I ordered the wrong dog food (2 big bags of expensive food) last week and the dogs wouldn't eat it. For anyone else this would be simple to sort but I found it hard to. It seemed to cause chaos.

The temptation to cave in and go back onto something is very strong. I am lucky I have an understanding husband, but for how much longer. He's encouraging me to ride it out- he used to work in addictions, and he worked out I was in withdrawal from AD without me telling him (although I know they're not addictive per se, but there are similarities) . So I know I am very lucky. However the thought of being like this long term is awful.  I worry I won't be able to live a meaningful life any time soon.

I know also my sleep pattern has been disrupted from taking half an antihistamine for allergy on Monday (got drowsy and slept at wrong time), plus it's warm overnight and I know this is a factor. I feel so guilty I am putting him through this.

What may happen if I move to 2mg, would this be too much? Also from experience, what can happen if people go back into an antidepressant after being off for a few months?

Thanks in advance for your support and guidance 💟

 

[Kris73]

On 6/6/2021 at 8:55 PM, arbor said:

Oh @Kris73--I can so relate to the shocking rage in going off Fluoxetine.  What it does to the brain--nearly unbearable.  Please hang in there.  I just know it will with time get better for you.

Arbor

Thanks for this. I think these feelings are too much for me to cope with, especially given the near total denial of withdrawal symptoms by the medical profession (in the ones I've encountered anyway). My husband is now saying he thinks I should go back on the meds.... I don't know what to do, it seems the path of least resistance, but I'm scared....both of how I feel right now and how I might feel if I restart fluoxetine....

[arbor]

Dear @Kris73,

 

I sure do hear how bad this is for you right now.  I'm glad you came here.  I can experience the rage as so convincing that I lose sight of its psychological triggers.  We may not be able right now to control the biological storm caused by the meds and/or their w/d, but we can become more aware of the conditioned triggers.  One that happens for me is dealing with the medical establishment.  (In fact, I admit to being phobic when having to talk to my doctor.)  It could be different for you, but I've had to focus on calming my sense of betrayal and disappointment that they can't help me at this time, and that they actually trigger a feeling of alienation.  Some kind of "alienation" seems to be a strong neuro-emotion for me during w/d.  I have a biased hope that the doctors' ignorance doesn't need to be part of your decision-making as you cope with such emotional pressure and confusing unknowns.

 

6 hours ago, Kris73 said:

I don't know what to do, it seems the path of least resistance, but I'm scared....both of how I feel right now and how I might feel if I restart fluoxetine....

 

Are you still at 1mg of fluoxetine?  If so, are you considering up-dosing?  As @getofflex mentioned, it seems best to not change dosages too quickly.  Someone with more experience than I have might be able to discern whether your increased reactivity is related to your original W/d and how much to the perturbation of the drug itself, or if it's a combo.  Unfortunately, we don't know enough and don't have the tools to guide the kinds of dilemmas that these drugs have made possible.  My sense is that our brains are perturbed enough that no matter what we do, we're going to have to ride out these difficult effects.

 

Please know you are supported here as we all try to cope with this ride. 

To address some of your immediate symptoms, I would label the inner tension you describe, akathisia.  A few somatic trauma approaches I use for it are simple so you might have already use them.  (Forgive me if such suggestions are small in the face of these neuro-emotions--which are more overwhelming and horrifying than I could have ever imagined.)  Anyway, here are some physical techniques:  1) very strong hugs.  Hug yourself with as much force as possible.  Very helpful is if someone else will power-hug you, especially around the shoulders both straight-on and from behind.   I also use the EMDR Butterfly Hug:  Wrap your arms around yourself so that each hand touches the opposite upper arm or shoulder. Then tap your arms/shoulders in an alternating rhythm, one-two-three, first one hand then the other.   Repeat allowing your breath to calm and deepen.  (There is more information online.)  

2)  Asking someone to rub or rest their hand on your back between the shoulder blades.  It seems to be a sweet spot for calming (that we automatically do with babies(!)  3) If no one's around, you can lie on your back and use a tennis ball, or equivalent, under that spot to massage it.

 

My experience of the rages is that they come, but they also go.  They aren't permanent.  I do believe they will get better.  Also, people and animals (my cat gets lots and lots and more lots of hugs) adapt and accept and support my rollercoaster, especially when I explain about the neuro-emotions.  Oddly enough, I also recently bought the wrong cat food (and a big, expensive amount) that she won't eat!

 

I hold the thought of your eventual peace and healing--

Arbor

 

 

   

[Kris73]

40 minutes ago, arbor said:

One that happens for me is dealing with the medical establishment.  (In fact, I admit to being phobic when having to talk to my doctor.)  It could be different for you, but I've had to focus on calming my sense of betrayal and disappointment that they can't help me at this time, and that they actually trigger a feeling of alienation.

Hi Arbor

Thanks for your really detailed response. I also have the same phobia regards doctors, burgeoning throughout this whole episode. I have an appointment with psychiatrist at end of June, I will struggle to express my feelings and how dreadful this situation is, given how blasé he was in February when he told me to simply stop the fluox, no mention of withdrawal effects. In fact he was not even anticipating any issues because he said he'd discharge me in three months all being well.  

The disappointment is at times overwhelming. These people really think they are helping us. I think it is obvious how brainwashed they are by the big drug companies. 

I don't know what to do with this distress and anger. Making a complaint seems like it would be counterproductive, given that I'd be the one to suffer all the stress. 

I shall show your response to my husband. I'm sure he'll be up for the power hugs. 

I am taking 1mg fluox, and I know it's still early days. Three weeks tomorrow on it. I'm quite scared this will go on for a long time given some of the things I've read on here.. people can still be suffering after years. 

Thank you for your kind thoughts and positive advice. I do think today that I'm over last week's "wave".

[getofflex]

On 6/13/2021 at 4:48 AM, Kris73 said:

My husband is now saying he thinks I should go back on the meds.... I don't know what to do, it seems the path of least resistance

Please be extremely cautious about this decision.  By going back on it, you could just be prolonging the problems.  Each time we go off and on psych meds, we increase the chance of messing up our nervous system even more, and making ourselves even more sick.  Please read this link:  

 

Considerations About Stability Stop Jumping Around

 

I'm really sorry you are going through this painful withdrawal process.  I understand, because I've gone through the same thing.  

 

Oftentimes the best think to do is tough it out and use non drug coping techniques to manage the symptoms.  Using drugs to take away our discomfort is what got us in this predicament in the first place.  From your drug signature, I'm not clear what drug you are on at this time or what dose.  Please update, thank you. 

[Kris73]

Hi Getofflex

I hear you loud and clear! Thank you for your input and sending the info about stability.

I also read your follow up post:

 

"Tough It Out

 

We live in a world where the internet and media lead us to think that we should live a life free of pain and troubles.  But, is this realistic?  Has life on earth ever been easy and fun all the time?  No.  Most of us went on psych meds to take away mental anguish.  For many of us, this worked, at first.  But then, for one reason or another, we needed or wanted to get off the drugs.  However, most of us found that getting off of these drugs was not so easy.  The medical people usually recommend a very fast taper, and most of us who try that end up with significant withdrawal symptoms."...

 

I understand now, and I need to keep reading this post about stability.  You are so right about our " want it now" shiny Instagram society.  Unhappiness is part and parcel of life.  Sadly the drug companies saw fit to patent drugs which promised to end the pain and unhappiness.

 

I can also use this to talk to my husband.  I think going back on to Fluoxetine at 20mg will do no good, and may do much harm.  My worry would be that i'd either resign myself to being on these drugs for the rest of my life (and give up personal autonomy/feel like a failure), or I'd have another battle with NHS docs and psychiatrist to get an adequate and lengthy taper (which would cos more stress than it would be worth!). It's too draining, and not worth the payoff for a few months "peace".  They (medics) don't believe tapering is required, or that withdrawal in any meaningful sense exists.  I'd be banging my head against a brick wall.  I think part of my problem may be that I never grew up, given that I went on ADs at such a young age.  I need to become an adult, and yes, "tough it out". 

 

I AM BETTER OFF WHERE I AM

 

PS I updated my signature, thank-you again for all you help and input

[mstimc]

Hi Kris

 

FWIW, after trying two unsuccessful tapers, I finally made up my mind that I would not reinstate no matter what.  I decided I needed to put my effort into coping strategies and reframing my thinking away from negative thought cycles.  No, it wasn't easy and it wasn't always smooth, and it took two years, but I did it and I've never looked back.  I'm not militantly anti-med; I think they may have value in some situations, but without some long-term behavioral practices, meds aren't a solution.  You can do it! 

[Kris73]

Hey

Thanks for your encouraging words, especially as I had a little weep after I wrote those words 

Enjoy your extended vacation in Portugal,

Best, Kris

[mstimc]

2 minutes ago, Kris73 said:

especially as I had a little weep after I wrote those words

Glad it helped! Nothing wrong with a good cry--its a great emotional release. 

[getofflex]

@Kris73are you feeling any better at all since having the horrendous week last week?  Are you still on the 1 mg of Prozac? 

[Kris73]

On 6/15/2021 at 11:27 PM, getofflex said:

@Kris73are you feeling any better at all since having the horrendous week last week?  Are you still on the 1 mg of Prozac? 

Hi getofflex thanks for asking. 

I am still taking 1mg Prozac.

I think I feel slightly better, but struggling to define how I feel from minute to minute because my emotions are all over the place. I'm making a huge effort to be calm and reasonable with my husband. But I still feel like a boiling pot about to simmer over.  My anxiety is pretty high, not something I used to notice so much before reinstating the 1mg. 

Also preoccupied with my upcoming telephone appointment with psych on 29 June. Causing a great deal of stress because I know there will be resistance to withdrawal and probably an offer/encouragement to go back on Prozac at previous dose. I might be wrong....but I doubt it. I do see a counsellor, and have appointment with her tomorrow.

Having alot of stress with my dogs. Swift is hyperactive and not what I need when I am so volatile myself. Going to parents at weekend for birthday, may stay a couple of days (without husband). See if space makes any difference. 

 

 

[Kris73]

On 6/15/2021 at 3:18 PM, mstimc said:

decided I needed to put my effort into coping strategies and reframing my thinking away from negative thought cycles. 

Hi @mstimcjust wondering if you could give any more information, do you mean CBT? Best wishes, Kris

[mstimc]

Hi Kris

Yes, CBT, but that covers a lot of ground, from intentional catastrophizing to friendly self-talk.  I also use mindfulness and present-thinking.  My object was to create and maintain a "toolbox" of coping strategies to use when needed.  If one thing isn't working, I can use something else. 

 

From your posts, it sounds like one of your sticking points is anticipatory anxiety--thinking about what might go wrong until it becomes a new reality.  Intentional catastrophizing  is a good tool to use for this--thinking about all the things that can go wrong until you bring them to their final and absurd conclusion.  

 

I'm on my way out for a couple hour, but I'd be happy to go into more detail if you want specific information.

[getofflex]

Hello @Kris73  Please think carefully about this question. 

 

Since reinstating on May 24 to 1 mg of liquid prozac,  overall do you feel 1) better, 2) the same, or 3) worse since your reinstatement?   Please try to give a one or two word answer.  I know you have had ups and downs (windows and waves) but try to average it all out.  

 

This will help us to give you future direction. Thank you.  

[Kris73]

Hi @getofflex

I definitely feel worse overall

[getofflex]

In that case, I would stop the reinstatement right away.  I would use some non drug coping techniques.  Please see the link above in my first post for non drug coping techniques.  Please see the links on stability, and try to keep your nervous system as calm as you can by slowing down your activity, and perhaps taking an easy walk during the day, if you are able.  Don't make major changes at this time in your eating, sleeping, activity level, etc.  Avoid negative people and stressful situations, if you can. 

 

Here are some fluoxetine success stories to give you hope and encouragement: 

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21382-cakesgimmecakes-fully-recovered-prozac/?tab=comments#comment-401766

 

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1351-cg-recovered-from-prozac-withdrawal/?tab=comments#comment-12406

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24025-we-see-our-strength-in-hindsight-fluoxetine-taper-story/?tab=comments#comment-517663

 

Please remember that this will come to an end eventually.  In the meantime, try to practice a lot of patience, and try practicing acceptance.  

 

https://www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/radical_acceptance_text.html

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by getofflex

[Gingersdoitbetter]

I totally understand the rage you are feeling and it’s awful. I have a husband and a two year old and I snap very easily on them and then feel so horrible and guilty and depressed ... it’s so bad, but it isn’t truly us... I have to keep telling myself that and I try to walk away when I feel like boiling over which is often... sorry to hear you feel the same

[Kris73]

Hi @getofflex

In that case, I would stop the reinstatement right away.  I would use some non drug coping techniques.

 

I stopped the Prozac liquid 1ml on Friday. Unfortunately I had a stressful weekend with my parents for my birthday. I honestly wanted to just stay home and hide but it wasn't an option.

Thursday today and I'm feeling quite anxious this morning, although this is the first time since Friday I've had significant anxiety. I wonder if the dose of 1mg is also going to provide withdrawal symptoms for a time?

I have spoken to the GP this week (Tuesday) and he threw in a curve ball. Because I am 48, he thinks some of the symptoms could be linked to menopause.  Apparently, SSRIs can mask menopause symptoms. I had bloods done on Wednesday and will get results tomorrow.

My head is in a spin. I feel so sensitised and raw at the moment.  This feels like almost too much too deal with.

I cancelled the telephone appointment with the psychiatrist (upcoming on Tuesday) and told the GP I have no faith in him. The GP was sympathetic as regards what has happened with the cold turkey. So that's one weight off my mind, I feel better I don't need to deal with the psychiatrist. The problem in UK is that there is very little choice as regards medical staff. You get what you get, sadly. Thanks for any further input you might be able to offer.

kris73