Hank89 Posted May 19, 2022 Author Share Posted May 19, 2022 I will have to switch back to the pills again. I can’t stand this nightmare any longer, having this horribly low mood and being restless at the same time. I can’t work, I haven’t seen my partner and my son since Saturday. I am staying with my parents again, just waiting for the day to pass. Can I switch back to the pills again without a cross-over, considering that I have always talen pills before? I am desperate and very grateful for advice! 2018 sertraline 25-50-75-100-75-50-25-12.5-0 mg Sep-Dec mirtazapine 15 mg Oct- 2019 mirtazapine 15 mg all the time except from 3 weeks at 0 in Apr pregabalin Jan-Mar, then a break and from 13 Jul 150 mg venlafaxine 18 Apr 75 mg, 6 May 150 mg, 1 Jun 225 mg, 9 Jul 150 mg, 7 Nov 75 mg, 10 Dec 37.5 mg 2020 venlafaxine 13 Mar 37.5 to 0 mg, off for 5 months then 26 Aug 75 mg, 19 Sep 37.5 mg, 23 Sep 37.5 to 0 mg mirtazapine 30 Mar 15 to 0 mg, started again 6 May 15 mg, 11 May 30 mg, 13 Jun 45 mg, 4 Aug 60 mg, 18 Sep 45 mg, 13 Nov 30 mg pregabalin started taper 5 Aug 125 mg, 12 Aug 100 mg, 19 Aug 75 mg, 19 Oct 50 mg, 27 Oct 25 mg, 2 Nov 0 mg fluoxetine 23 Sep 10 mg, 29 Sep 20 mg, 23 Oct 20 to 0 mg (30 days in total) escitalopram 14 Nov 5 mg, 22 Nov 10 mg, 11 Dec 5 mg, 16 Dec 5 to 0 mg (27 days in total) 2021 mirtazapine 5 Jan 15 mg, 4 Feb 30 mg, 22 Jul 28.5 mg, 24 Sep 27.8 mg, 8 Oct 27.1 mg, 15 Oct 26.4 mg, 29 Oct 25.7 mg, 5 Nov 25.1 mg Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted May 19, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 19, 2022 It is hard to tell from your previous post quoted below how long you felt okay for before the worsening started. Please provide a clear timeline (I can see the tablet to liquid cross over on the previous page, so do the timeline from when you started 100% liquid) of when you made change and when you started to feel better and then when it worsened. If intensity of symptoms decreased/increased dramatically please make that a separate entry. Example: Date: started 100% liquid date to date: worsening date to date: improving date to date: worsening Q: Are you making your own liquid? Q: Is there a possibility that you have made an error in your dose, either taking too much or a lower dose? Q: Has there been anything else happening during this time, drinking alcohol, sickness, medication, vaccination, stressful event? * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted May 19, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 19, 2022 Q: Have you missed any doses? * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Hank89 Posted May 19, 2022 Author Share Posted May 19, 2022 Thank you ChessieCat for checking in. I have added some notes below, based on my diary. 21 April – 100 % liquid 21 April – 25 April Moderate symptoms of depression, low level of anxiety, slight headache sometimes. 25 April – 29 April Same as above but also nausea every day, especially in the afternoon/evening. Nausea is a new symptom. I have had it on a few occasions before and I can see that it has happened days/weeks after reducing my dose. The nausea was not a big problem except from one day when it was moderate. 30 April Waking up and realize that I feel very low. I get very emotional and afraid. I feel that my life is over. I can´t distract myself. Other symptoms ok. 1 May Horrible feeling when I slept. The day was similar as the day before. 2-3 May Slightly less depressed and emotional. Instead strong anxiety. 4 May Intense depression, crying attacks, strong anxiety and fear. The worst day. 5 May – 8 May Still bad but slightly better. Slight nausea sometimes. 9 May – 11 May Much better mood wise. Moderate symptoms of depression. Go to work etc. Still a little bit more anxiety than usual. Feeling almost well in the evenings. 12 May – 14 May At work on the 12 th but feel that my mood is going downhill again. Pretty bad days again, but not as intense as last time yet. Slight headache and nausea most days at times. Worse sleep and nightmares/feeling unwell during sleep. 15 May Bad start but getting better and better as the day goes on. Moderate depression symptoms and not so many other things going on, except from having a lot of Raynauds. 16 May – Present (19 May) Go to work with some confidence on the 16th, but feel pretty bad as the day goes on. Have a breakdown after work. Since then having a horrible low mood again, feeling my life is over, getting overly emotional and feeling tense and frozen. The anxiety I feel is more self-created because I am afraid of the situation and the future. Q: Are you making your own liquid? Yes. Q: Is there a possibility that you have made an error in your dose, either taking too much or a lower dose? No, I don’t think so. I have been very careful when I have prepared and measured my dose. Q: Has there been anything else happening during this time, drinking alcohol, sickness, medication, vaccination, stressful event? No. Q: Have you missed any doses? No. It is worth mentioning again that I was not stable before the change to liquid. However, the waves were not as extreme as now, on average. The big picture is as follows: In the first year I had short waves, 1-3 days, and clear windows about 50 % of the time. In the second year the waves got longer, 1-2 weeks, and the windows got shorter and still with symptoms, although less intense. January this year was the first time I made visible progress. I had a 4-week window during which I felt pretty stable with manageable symptoms. Then I got Covid and was hit by the worst setback ever which lasted for 6 weeks, but slowly got better. Then I had a approx. 2-week window, followed by a 4-week wave during which I started the switch to liquid. With January being the exception, I feel that I slowly deteriorate mood-wise. Sorry for writing so much, I really appreciate your help. 2018 sertraline 25-50-75-100-75-50-25-12.5-0 mg Sep-Dec mirtazapine 15 mg Oct- 2019 mirtazapine 15 mg all the time except from 3 weeks at 0 in Apr pregabalin Jan-Mar, then a break and from 13 Jul 150 mg venlafaxine 18 Apr 75 mg, 6 May 150 mg, 1 Jun 225 mg, 9 Jul 150 mg, 7 Nov 75 mg, 10 Dec 37.5 mg 2020 venlafaxine 13 Mar 37.5 to 0 mg, off for 5 months then 26 Aug 75 mg, 19 Sep 37.5 mg, 23 Sep 37.5 to 0 mg mirtazapine 30 Mar 15 to 0 mg, started again 6 May 15 mg, 11 May 30 mg, 13 Jun 45 mg, 4 Aug 60 mg, 18 Sep 45 mg, 13 Nov 30 mg pregabalin started taper 5 Aug 125 mg, 12 Aug 100 mg, 19 Aug 75 mg, 19 Oct 50 mg, 27 Oct 25 mg, 2 Nov 0 mg fluoxetine 23 Sep 10 mg, 29 Sep 20 mg, 23 Oct 20 to 0 mg (30 days in total) escitalopram 14 Nov 5 mg, 22 Nov 10 mg, 11 Dec 5 mg, 16 Dec 5 to 0 mg (27 days in total) 2021 mirtazapine 5 Jan 15 mg, 4 Feb 30 mg, 22 Jul 28.5 mg, 24 Sep 27.8 mg, 8 Oct 27.1 mg, 15 Oct 26.4 mg, 29 Oct 25.7 mg, 5 Nov 25.1 mg Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted May 20, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 20, 2022 Thank you that is very helpful. Q: Are you using water or a pharmaceutical liquid? The section of this post below the line was written before I found this post on the previous page. Please re-read this post: _____________________________________________________________ Q: Did your drug manufacturer change? Q: How long are you storing your liquid for, is it in a dark, covered/sealed container (so it won't evaporate) in the fridge? Q: Are you using expired tablets? Q: Are you taking your dose in the morning or the evening? If there is nothing that you can think of that might be causing these worsening symptoms you could try going straight back to 1/2 tablet and 1/2 liquid, or if you are concerned about going straight to that do 1/4 and 3/4 before going back to 1/2 and 1/2 and see if things improve. If they do then you might find it better to go back to all tablet. I really don't know if it would be a good idea to go straight back to tablet from 100% liquid, which is why I was thinking 50/50. But it is your decision. I am just giving you some things to think about. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted May 20, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 20, 2022 I just found this posted in another member's topic. Please see the second paragraph: 13 hours ago, brassmonkey said: A cross taper is what is known as a "Dose Change Event". Any time there is a Dose Change Event it should be followed by a period of time for the body to restabilize. At a minimum this is 4 weeks, but I have found that most people require a bit longer, so I usually suggest 6 weeks. More often than we would like people have trouble switching from solid to liquid. Liquids have a faster absorption rate, higher bioavailability and the like, which can cause stabilization problems and a shock to the system. Many cross tapers are successful, but if they go wrong, it can take several months to recross taper and stabilize before continuing. It is always a good idea to error on the side of slower. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Hank89 Posted May 20, 2022 Author Share Posted May 20, 2022 Thank you for the input. The only thing I can think about is if it is bad to take Mg at the same time as I take mirtazapine? I have done that for a long time, but sometimes I forget to take Mg or I don’t have it available. Is it recommended to separate any intake of supplements from intake of antidepressants? Yesterday evening I decided to go back to 100 % tablet, I have been desperate recent days, and this was before you suggested 50/50. I can only hope that this decision is the right thing to do and that I can recover again. I don’t feel any difference yet, but I know I must be patient. It is somewhat comforting to know that others have faced big issues when switching to liquid, and that it is likely that the switch has caused the worsening of symptoms. It is sad that I ended up so bad after reading everything I could about it in advance and prepared myself. If I had felt worsening of symptoms during the cross over, I would have given it more time or gone back. When I got worse it was already too late. 2018 sertraline 25-50-75-100-75-50-25-12.5-0 mg Sep-Dec mirtazapine 15 mg Oct- 2019 mirtazapine 15 mg all the time except from 3 weeks at 0 in Apr pregabalin Jan-Mar, then a break and from 13 Jul 150 mg venlafaxine 18 Apr 75 mg, 6 May 150 mg, 1 Jun 225 mg, 9 Jul 150 mg, 7 Nov 75 mg, 10 Dec 37.5 mg 2020 venlafaxine 13 Mar 37.5 to 0 mg, off for 5 months then 26 Aug 75 mg, 19 Sep 37.5 mg, 23 Sep 37.5 to 0 mg mirtazapine 30 Mar 15 to 0 mg, started again 6 May 15 mg, 11 May 30 mg, 13 Jun 45 mg, 4 Aug 60 mg, 18 Sep 45 mg, 13 Nov 30 mg pregabalin started taper 5 Aug 125 mg, 12 Aug 100 mg, 19 Aug 75 mg, 19 Oct 50 mg, 27 Oct 25 mg, 2 Nov 0 mg fluoxetine 23 Sep 10 mg, 29 Sep 20 mg, 23 Oct 20 to 0 mg (30 days in total) escitalopram 14 Nov 5 mg, 22 Nov 10 mg, 11 Dec 5 mg, 16 Dec 5 to 0 mg (27 days in total) 2021 mirtazapine 5 Jan 15 mg, 4 Feb 30 mg, 22 Jul 28.5 mg, 24 Sep 27.8 mg, 8 Oct 27.1 mg, 15 Oct 26.4 mg, 29 Oct 25.7 mg, 5 Nov 25.1 mg Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 20, 2022 Administrator Share Posted May 20, 2022 @Hank89, it sounds like the liquid is being absorbed too fast. We suggest making the switch by taking 1/2 of the dose in liquid and 1/2 in tablet form, so you can get used to the liquid. Can you do that? You might also take the liquid with food. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted May 20, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, ChessieCat said: Q: Are you using water or a pharmaceutical liquid? Please answer this question. It adds to our knowledge base. Thank you. If you were using water, it might be that using the pharma liquid might work better and give a more consistent dose. This is something to keep in mind for when your doses get lower. Edited May 20, 2022 by ChessieCat * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Hank89 Posted May 21, 2022 Author Share Posted May 21, 2022 On 5/20/2022 at 11:04 PM, Altostrata said: @Hank89, it sounds like the liquid is being absorbed too fast. We suggest making the switch by taking 1/2 of the dose in liquid and 1/2 in tablet form, so you can get used to the liquid. Can you do that? You might also take the liquid with food. By doing that, do you mean that I should try to go back to 100 % liquid again after a while if I feel better? Or is it to make the switch back to tablet more smooth? 2018 sertraline 25-50-75-100-75-50-25-12.5-0 mg Sep-Dec mirtazapine 15 mg Oct- 2019 mirtazapine 15 mg all the time except from 3 weeks at 0 in Apr pregabalin Jan-Mar, then a break and from 13 Jul 150 mg venlafaxine 18 Apr 75 mg, 6 May 150 mg, 1 Jun 225 mg, 9 Jul 150 mg, 7 Nov 75 mg, 10 Dec 37.5 mg 2020 venlafaxine 13 Mar 37.5 to 0 mg, off for 5 months then 26 Aug 75 mg, 19 Sep 37.5 mg, 23 Sep 37.5 to 0 mg mirtazapine 30 Mar 15 to 0 mg, started again 6 May 15 mg, 11 May 30 mg, 13 Jun 45 mg, 4 Aug 60 mg, 18 Sep 45 mg, 13 Nov 30 mg pregabalin started taper 5 Aug 125 mg, 12 Aug 100 mg, 19 Aug 75 mg, 19 Oct 50 mg, 27 Oct 25 mg, 2 Nov 0 mg fluoxetine 23 Sep 10 mg, 29 Sep 20 mg, 23 Oct 20 to 0 mg (30 days in total) escitalopram 14 Nov 5 mg, 22 Nov 10 mg, 11 Dec 5 mg, 16 Dec 5 to 0 mg (27 days in total) 2021 mirtazapine 5 Jan 15 mg, 4 Feb 30 mg, 22 Jul 28.5 mg, 24 Sep 27.8 mg, 8 Oct 27.1 mg, 15 Oct 26.4 mg, 29 Oct 25.7 mg, 5 Nov 25.1 mg Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 21, 2022 Administrator Share Posted May 21, 2022 If you take 1/2 of your dose in tablet and 1/2 in liquid, then taper from the liquid, you can make a more gradual switch to all-liquid, which you may find more tolerable. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Hank89 Posted May 21, 2022 Author Share Posted May 21, 2022 That sounds like a good idea. I think I need to be very careful. For the last 2 days I have taken the dose as 100% tablet though. The symptoms have been too much to handle and I was afraid of continue to use the liquid. Can I take the dose as 50/50 next time or is that to jump around too much? 2018 sertraline 25-50-75-100-75-50-25-12.5-0 mg Sep-Dec mirtazapine 15 mg Oct- 2019 mirtazapine 15 mg all the time except from 3 weeks at 0 in Apr pregabalin Jan-Mar, then a break and from 13 Jul 150 mg venlafaxine 18 Apr 75 mg, 6 May 150 mg, 1 Jun 225 mg, 9 Jul 150 mg, 7 Nov 75 mg, 10 Dec 37.5 mg 2020 venlafaxine 13 Mar 37.5 to 0 mg, off for 5 months then 26 Aug 75 mg, 19 Sep 37.5 mg, 23 Sep 37.5 to 0 mg mirtazapine 30 Mar 15 to 0 mg, started again 6 May 15 mg, 11 May 30 mg, 13 Jun 45 mg, 4 Aug 60 mg, 18 Sep 45 mg, 13 Nov 30 mg pregabalin started taper 5 Aug 125 mg, 12 Aug 100 mg, 19 Aug 75 mg, 19 Oct 50 mg, 27 Oct 25 mg, 2 Nov 0 mg fluoxetine 23 Sep 10 mg, 29 Sep 20 mg, 23 Oct 20 to 0 mg (30 days in total) escitalopram 14 Nov 5 mg, 22 Nov 10 mg, 11 Dec 5 mg, 16 Dec 5 to 0 mg (27 days in total) 2021 mirtazapine 5 Jan 15 mg, 4 Feb 30 mg, 22 Jul 28.5 mg, 24 Sep 27.8 mg, 8 Oct 27.1 mg, 15 Oct 26.4 mg, 29 Oct 25.7 mg, 5 Nov 25.1 mg Link to comment
Hank89 Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 @ChessieCat, I was using water to solve the tablet. I made a new solution everyday, 2 hours before taking the dose. The tablet seemed to dissolve well. I also stirred well before taking the dose. I can see if it is possible to buy a pharmaceutical liquid if I try liquid again. For now I wait for the symptoms to settle down, no progress so far. 1 2018 sertraline 25-50-75-100-75-50-25-12.5-0 mg Sep-Dec mirtazapine 15 mg Oct- 2019 mirtazapine 15 mg all the time except from 3 weeks at 0 in Apr pregabalin Jan-Mar, then a break and from 13 Jul 150 mg venlafaxine 18 Apr 75 mg, 6 May 150 mg, 1 Jun 225 mg, 9 Jul 150 mg, 7 Nov 75 mg, 10 Dec 37.5 mg 2020 venlafaxine 13 Mar 37.5 to 0 mg, off for 5 months then 26 Aug 75 mg, 19 Sep 37.5 mg, 23 Sep 37.5 to 0 mg mirtazapine 30 Mar 15 to 0 mg, started again 6 May 15 mg, 11 May 30 mg, 13 Jun 45 mg, 4 Aug 60 mg, 18 Sep 45 mg, 13 Nov 30 mg pregabalin started taper 5 Aug 125 mg, 12 Aug 100 mg, 19 Aug 75 mg, 19 Oct 50 mg, 27 Oct 25 mg, 2 Nov 0 mg fluoxetine 23 Sep 10 mg, 29 Sep 20 mg, 23 Oct 20 to 0 mg (30 days in total) escitalopram 14 Nov 5 mg, 22 Nov 10 mg, 11 Dec 5 mg, 16 Dec 5 to 0 mg (27 days in total) 2021 mirtazapine 5 Jan 15 mg, 4 Feb 30 mg, 22 Jul 28.5 mg, 24 Sep 27.8 mg, 8 Oct 27.1 mg, 15 Oct 26.4 mg, 29 Oct 25.7 mg, 5 Nov 25.1 mg Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 22, 2022 Administrator Share Posted May 22, 2022 What changes do you feel from taking your dose in tablet form only? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Hank89 Posted May 23, 2022 Author Share Posted May 23, 2022 I took the first dose in tablet form four days ago. I have not noticed any big changes yet, but perhaps a slight improvement. I have at least not been as extremely emotional or devastated the last two days. 2018 sertraline 25-50-75-100-75-50-25-12.5-0 mg Sep-Dec mirtazapine 15 mg Oct- 2019 mirtazapine 15 mg all the time except from 3 weeks at 0 in Apr pregabalin Jan-Mar, then a break and from 13 Jul 150 mg venlafaxine 18 Apr 75 mg, 6 May 150 mg, 1 Jun 225 mg, 9 Jul 150 mg, 7 Nov 75 mg, 10 Dec 37.5 mg 2020 venlafaxine 13 Mar 37.5 to 0 mg, off for 5 months then 26 Aug 75 mg, 19 Sep 37.5 mg, 23 Sep 37.5 to 0 mg mirtazapine 30 Mar 15 to 0 mg, started again 6 May 15 mg, 11 May 30 mg, 13 Jun 45 mg, 4 Aug 60 mg, 18 Sep 45 mg, 13 Nov 30 mg pregabalin started taper 5 Aug 125 mg, 12 Aug 100 mg, 19 Aug 75 mg, 19 Oct 50 mg, 27 Oct 25 mg, 2 Nov 0 mg fluoxetine 23 Sep 10 mg, 29 Sep 20 mg, 23 Oct 20 to 0 mg (30 days in total) escitalopram 14 Nov 5 mg, 22 Nov 10 mg, 11 Dec 5 mg, 16 Dec 5 to 0 mg (27 days in total) 2021 mirtazapine 5 Jan 15 mg, 4 Feb 30 mg, 22 Jul 28.5 mg, 24 Sep 27.8 mg, 8 Oct 27.1 mg, 15 Oct 26.4 mg, 29 Oct 25.7 mg, 5 Nov 25.1 mg Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 24, 2022 Administrator Share Posted May 24, 2022 Suggest you continue for 10 days to stabilize on tablet only before your next step. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
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