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Dantheman Life after Effexor/Venlafaxine taper


Dantheman

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Hi friends,

 

I am on a quest to live without psych meds for the first time in decades. I was able to stop one drug (lamictal) in December, and now I have just reached the end of a 3.5 month taper of Effexor. My last drug is Depakote, which I hope to start tapering soon. Why am I doing this? Two reasons. One, I don't think these drugs are helping me. I have not had any stability or time away from depression or mixed/uncomfortable states in recent years. It seems that things may in fact have gotten worse. Two, I think that there is a new wave  of psychiatry commencing. I would like to try psilocybin, for example, in a theraputic setting (I live in Oregon, it's legal!)

 

My past few months tapering the drug have been better than the previous years. I've felt more time happy, stable, and have had less time in crippling depression. My moods have felt more malleable--I can change my mood  more easily and I am less likely to get stuck. I have more access to my emotions and am able  to  deal with past traumas consciously.

 

However: Things are sometimes a little scary, especially since  I went down to zero on Effexor. Some days it feels like the bottom has just fallen out. Benedryl does fix this--both physical and mental symptoms. Why?

 

I also want to learn more about  supplements. Which and why?

 

I have read this forum a bit, and I know people are  going to tell me I have gone too fast. But  here I am! I don't want to go  back on it! I also do think that there  are people out there  that have had an easier time  getting off of these drugs! (they wouldn't be searching out our forum, right?)

 

Anyway, I really  appreciate all the research you've done. This is the only place I have found  where this kind of work is  being  done. Thanks so much for listening to me!

1994-2002 sertraline 150mg

2000-2002 lithium (forgot dosage)

2008-Dec 2020 lamotrigine 50mg (tapered off in one month)

2002-2021 Venlafaxine ER 150mg

 

January 2021 began Venlafaxine taper.

112.5mg--3 weeks, 75mg--3 weeks, 37.5mg--3 weeks, 18.5--3 weeks, went to zero in April 2021. Off for three weeks, reinstated 18.5 May 5 due to living hell.

2001-present divalproex er 750mg

2020-present vitamin d3 1000iu at night

2020-present omega-3 fish oil 1100mg at morning 1100mg at night

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  • Altostrata changed the title to Dantheman Life after Effexor/Venlafaxine taper
  • Administrator

Welcome, @Dantheman

 

On 5/3/2021 at 3:17 PM, Dantheman said:

However: Things are sometimes a little scary, especially since  I went down to zero on Effexor. Some days it feels like the bottom has just fallen out. Benedryl does fix this--both physical and mental symptoms. Why?

 

It seems you must be aware you risked withdrawal symptoms from going off Effexor the way you did (what was your method?) Now you have withdrawal syndrome. Still, it sounds like you're doing pretty well, if you're feeling better than before.

 

Withdrawal syndrome means your nervous system has been destabilized from your going on and off psychiatric drugs. This might be a good time for you to take a rest from tapering anything, to let your nervous system settle down. Then you might carefully go off whatever's left.

 

You will not want to experiment with the new psychedelics, which tend to be serotonergics, when you have a destabilized nervous system.

 

What drugs are you taking now, at what dosages and what times of day?

 

Generally, we see fish oil and magnesium supplements to be helpful, see


https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/


https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

 

We probably recommend much more than you're taking.

 

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thanks for your response.

 

Tonight, I feel like hell. Like, as bad as I've felt in my whole life. I've been off Effexor for three and a half weeks. It seemed like it was going well, but now maybe not so much.

 

It seems like consensus on this site is to reintroduce it at a low dose as soon as possible. I don't want to, but right now my situation is not something I can bare. Should I tough it out?

 

 

1994-2002 sertraline 150mg

2000-2002 lithium (forgot dosage)

2008-Dec 2020 lamotrigine 50mg (tapered off in one month)

2002-2021 Venlafaxine ER 150mg

 

January 2021 began Venlafaxine taper.

112.5mg--3 weeks, 75mg--3 weeks, 37.5mg--3 weeks, 18.5--3 weeks, went to zero in April 2021. Off for three weeks, reinstated 18.5 May 5 due to living hell.

2001-present divalproex er 750mg

2020-present vitamin d3 1000iu at night

2020-present omega-3 fish oil 1100mg at morning 1100mg at night

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  • Administrator
23 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What drugs are you taking now, at what dosages and what times of day?

 

How has your daily symptom pattern changed since you went off venlafaxine? Did you get withdrawal symptoms while you were tapering?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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6 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

How has your daily symptom pattern changed since you went off venlafaxine? Did you get withdrawal symptoms while you were tapering?

I did have symptoms when tapering. I had brain zaps, mood swings,  and chills, but I would wait until they had subsided until going to the next taper. This was NOTHING compared to what I'm feeling now. I'm in a horrible, horrible place--unable to sleep, panic, deep depression. It just doesn't make sense that these symptoms would just be showing up now all at once.

 

I took an 18.5 dose of Effexor last night. My brain zaps have gone, but the mood remains. Have I totally screwed myself?

1994-2002 sertraline 150mg

2000-2002 lithium (forgot dosage)

2008-Dec 2020 lamotrigine 50mg (tapered off in one month)

2002-2021 Venlafaxine ER 150mg

 

January 2021 began Venlafaxine taper.

112.5mg--3 weeks, 75mg--3 weeks, 37.5mg--3 weeks, 18.5--3 weeks, went to zero in April 2021. Off for three weeks, reinstated 18.5 May 5 due to living hell.

2001-present divalproex er 750mg

2020-present vitamin d3 1000iu at night

2020-present omega-3 fish oil 1100mg at morning 1100mg at night

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  • Administrator

How did you measure 18.5mg?

 

Reinstatement is often a good way to relieve withdrawal symptoms. For venlafaxine, I'd observe over 4 days -- if 18.5 seems to be too much, you might do with less.

 

It may take some time for your nervous system to stabilize with reinstatement. You can taper off by tiny amounts later.


What is withdrawal syndrome? 
 
About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms 
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thank you, kind friend.

 

I will take your advice. I make my own doses by just breaking open the capsules and emptying half the beads in another capsule. I know that I will have to get good at this.

1994-2002 sertraline 150mg

2000-2002 lithium (forgot dosage)

2008-Dec 2020 lamotrigine 50mg (tapered off in one month)

2002-2021 Venlafaxine ER 150mg

 

January 2021 began Venlafaxine taper.

112.5mg--3 weeks, 75mg--3 weeks, 37.5mg--3 weeks, 18.5--3 weeks, went to zero in April 2021. Off for three weeks, reinstated 18.5 May 5 due to living hell.

2001-present divalproex er 750mg

2020-present vitamin d3 1000iu at night

2020-present omega-3 fish oil 1100mg at morning 1100mg at night

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  • Administrator

Half of a 37.5mg capsule is 18.75mg. 

 

Yes, you're going to have to measure more exactly if you want to control your dosage.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thanks. I know it will have to be exact. I'm getting a lot of good advice. Both yesterday and today were unbelievably hard, even with the the reintroduction of the 18.75 of Effexor. Again, physical symptoms gone, but I am in a terrifying world of panic and depression and cannot fulfill my duties as a person. It is alarming.

 

I have friends suggesting 5htp to get through this. I don't know if this is a good idea. I hear about waves and windows, but this does not feel like a window is coming to save me. This feels PERMANENT.

1994-2002 sertraline 150mg

2000-2002 lithium (forgot dosage)

2008-Dec 2020 lamotrigine 50mg (tapered off in one month)

2002-2021 Venlafaxine ER 150mg

 

January 2021 began Venlafaxine taper.

112.5mg--3 weeks, 75mg--3 weeks, 37.5mg--3 weeks, 18.5--3 weeks, went to zero in April 2021. Off for three weeks, reinstated 18.5 May 5 due to living hell.

2001-present divalproex er 750mg

2020-present vitamin d3 1000iu at night

2020-present omega-3 fish oil 1100mg at morning 1100mg at night

Link to comment

Also,

 

I read a little bit about "kindling". I ask for your counsel--would it be better to take a lower dose of  Effexor than my last dose to avoid this risk?

1994-2002 sertraline 150mg

2000-2002 lithium (forgot dosage)

2008-Dec 2020 lamotrigine 50mg (tapered off in one month)

2002-2021 Venlafaxine ER 150mg

 

January 2021 began Venlafaxine taper.

112.5mg--3 weeks, 75mg--3 weeks, 37.5mg--3 weeks, 18.5--3 weeks, went to zero in April 2021. Off for three weeks, reinstated 18.5 May 5 due to living hell.

2001-present divalproex er 750mg

2020-present vitamin d3 1000iu at night

2020-present omega-3 fish oil 1100mg at morning 1100mg at night

Link to comment
  • Administrator

I would not add the complication of 5-HTP, another serotonergic, to your situation.

 

If you felt benefit and it didn't cause activation, you are not kindled by reinstating Effexor. It will take at least 4 days to ramp up to full effect. What effects do you feel today compared to yesterday?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I am bedridden both today and yesterday. I took an Ativan last night to sleep, which I haven't done in many years.

 

I am in a world of horrible terror. I'm very scared to feel this way long term. Just a few days ago I was a functional person. I have been like this long term before, and I am terrified that this is the beginning of another episode.

 

I can keep taking the 18.75 of Effexor, but I don't really see benefit other than the removal of the brain zaps. My anxiety and depression is as bad as when I reinstated.

1994-2002 sertraline 150mg

2000-2002 lithium (forgot dosage)

2008-Dec 2020 lamotrigine 50mg (tapered off in one month)

2002-2021 Venlafaxine ER 150mg

 

January 2021 began Venlafaxine taper.

112.5mg--3 weeks, 75mg--3 weeks, 37.5mg--3 weeks, 18.5--3 weeks, went to zero in April 2021. Off for three weeks, reinstated 18.5 May 5 due to living hell.

2001-present divalproex er 750mg

2020-present vitamin d3 1000iu at night

2020-present omega-3 fish oil 1100mg at morning 1100mg at night

Link to comment
  • Administrator

Please describe the anxiety and depression. What do they feel like? Are they constant or irregular? Worse at any particular times of day?

 

Do you feel better or worse after you take venlafaxine?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Sure.

 

The depression is complete lack of ability to feel joy. Everything that used to bring me joy feels deeply dark and terrifying. I am afraid to leave my bed. I am jolted awake by terror if I try to sleep.  It seems to be worse in the late afternoon. I had some slight relief today, but it was just numbness.

 

So this just started full force Wednesday night. It just took a couple of hours of feeling like that before I sought out another effexor dose. Before that, it was more waves and windows over my taper and final withdrawal--lots of good, productive emotions, as well as some dark times. But this is not something normal. This is like being tortured. It is intolerable.

 

I take effexor before bed. It was a few hours before the brain zaps that I'd been feeling for weeks departed. But there's been no noticeable affect on the symptoms that matter :(

1994-2002 sertraline 150mg

2000-2002 lithium (forgot dosage)

2008-Dec 2020 lamotrigine 50mg (tapered off in one month)

2002-2021 Venlafaxine ER 150mg

 

January 2021 began Venlafaxine taper.

112.5mg--3 weeks, 75mg--3 weeks, 37.5mg--3 weeks, 18.5--3 weeks, went to zero in April 2021. Off for three weeks, reinstated 18.5 May 5 due to living hell.

2001-present divalproex er 750mg

2020-present vitamin d3 1000iu at night

2020-present omega-3 fish oil 1100mg at morning 1100mg at night

Link to comment
  • Administrator

From what I can tell, 3 days of reinstatement is doing what we want reinstatement to do. It's not going to instantly reverse your withdrawal syndrome. Stabilization will take time. See 

 

What is withdrawal syndrome? 
 
About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms 
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Emotional anesthesia is a common adverse effect of antidepressants that can emerge after you go off them. It's not depression, it's how the drug remodeled your nervous system. When the drug was removed, your emotional nervous system lost its fuel.

 

Likewise, the problems with sleep are a very common withdrawal symptom. Suggest you follow these tips to strengthen your sleep while your system works on stabilizing:

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Strange sensations while falling asleep -- surges, zaps, jerks

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing the morning cortisol spike

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Just an update.

 

It lifted last night after 4 days of hell. I feel calm today, but deeply traumatized. My shrink of course wants to rocket me back up to 150mg as quickly as possible. I do not want to do this.

 

What does the collective wisdom say I do instead?

1994-2002 sertraline 150mg

2000-2002 lithium (forgot dosage)

2008-Dec 2020 lamotrigine 50mg (tapered off in one month)

2002-2021 Venlafaxine ER 150mg

 

January 2021 began Venlafaxine taper.

112.5mg--3 weeks, 75mg--3 weeks, 37.5mg--3 weeks, 18.5--3 weeks, went to zero in April 2021. Off for three weeks, reinstated 18.5 May 5 due to living hell.

2001-present divalproex er 750mg

2020-present vitamin d3 1000iu at night

2020-present omega-3 fish oil 1100mg at morning 1100mg at night

Link to comment
  • Administrator

If you want to live without psychiatric drugs, increasing the Effexor dosage is the wrong way to go.

 

It's very, very common that doctors mistake withdrawal symptoms for "relapse" and want to aggressively treat them with drugs intended to treat psychiatric disorders. But withdrawal is not a psychiatric disorder, it is an adverse drug event.

 

As explained earlier, full stabilization can take some time. Suggest you read 

 

What is withdrawal syndrome? 
 
About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms 
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

and other topics in the Symptoms and Self-Care forum.

 

It is likely you will continue to feel emotional anesthesia, as that is a common effect of antidepressants. They do not make you happy.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thank you again. I have carefully read everything you have suggested.

 

An update:

 

I do feel better--but very shaky and out of it. I don't feel panicked or in the type of hellscape I was in for the past several days. I am very scattered and discombobulated. I feel strong effects from both what I have experienced and perhaps the reintroduction of the medication.

 

Again, 18.75mg was my final dose three and a half weeks before this happened. I do intend to go off of it, and I don't want to risk worsening.

 

I am inclined to reduce tonight's dosage to 12mg and attempt to make that my reinstatement stablization dose.

 

Mistake?

1994-2002 sertraline 150mg

2000-2002 lithium (forgot dosage)

2008-Dec 2020 lamotrigine 50mg (tapered off in one month)

2002-2021 Venlafaxine ER 150mg

 

January 2021 began Venlafaxine taper.

112.5mg--3 weeks, 75mg--3 weeks, 37.5mg--3 weeks, 18.5--3 weeks, went to zero in April 2021. Off for three weeks, reinstated 18.5 May 5 due to living hell.

2001-present divalproex er 750mg

2020-present vitamin d3 1000iu at night

2020-present omega-3 fish oil 1100mg at morning 1100mg at night

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Dantheman

I feel we are in a very similar situation (feel free to click on my profile and read). I didn't even make it all the way off after a slow taper. I have a stressor and threw me into withdrawals. I've been in misery since January! As you explain, the feelings are unexplainable and unimaginable. I have never, ever had depression, just anxiety. I have now been in such a dark place, no emotions, no desire or joy. It is terrible and I feel it is permanent. I have slowly made increases. Had a small window after getting back up to 31mg, that left and symptoms resumed. Just this past Saturday I went to 37.5, hoping the "lowest therapeutic dose" may lift some. 7 doses of that an no change or if anything, maybe worse. I'm so scared. I'm waiting for a mod to reply and hopefully provide some advice. 

 

How are you now, since your last post was 12 days ago?

 

Effexor 75mg 2007

2014 dropped to 37.5mg per MD. Back to 75mg in 4 days. 

February 2020 began slow taper 7-10% monthly 75mg-12.20.20 23.75mg

1.7.21 22.45mg, 1.28 21.1 mg, Received COVID vaccine Pfizer- had increase heart rate which led to panic attack, nausea, lost appetite.

5 days of severe panic/anxiety after 

1.31.21 increased 22.9mg, 2.25.21 increased 23.25mg, 3.14.21 22.5mg

3.23.21 22.125mg, Had a sudden loss of family member. Loss of appetite, anxiety, nausea 

3.25.21 Increased 22.5mg, 4.8.21 increased 23.625 mg, 4.19.21 increase 24.75 mg

5.1.21 Increased 31mg (had a few good days and felt hungry) 5.15.21 Increased 37.5mg (emotional numbness set in) June 5.21 Increased 43.75mg June 15.21 Increased 50mg 

Since 2007 I have also had alprazolam 0.25mg prescribed, but use infrequently.

 

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