rubywednesday: Olanzapine withdrawal

[rubywednesday]

20 hours ago, rubywednesday said:

@brassmonkey sorry to bother you but I would like some advice re how I'm doing my meds. 

 

I'm weighing every tablet and capsule (separately) and work out the (almost) exact weight of each tablet of duloxetine I need to take, ie the beads weigh  0.338 +/- 0.010? and I multiply 35/60 to get that day's tablet (I'm taking 35 mg of a 60 mg tablet) plus the weight of the capsule.  I'm struggling a bit to do it now cause my hands shake, and maybe counting would be more accurate but I've tried that on numerous occasions and really feel unable to do it.  If I ever get to low doses I'll try counting the beads but I'm saving up my 20mg tablets for that purpose.  I think I've bought a fairly accurate scales but they seem to vary by up to about 0.005 or so.  I also calibrate them every night, except Sunday as I forgot to do them until quite late.  I used to take my meds religiously at 10 am and 10 pm but it's varying a bit if I'm sleeping (I went to bed Sunday night at 7.30pm because I got no sleep the night before) and didn't remember to take them til 11.30 am Monday morning.  I'm feeling much more stable today (it might just be a window).  I would be very grateful if you could advise and, like a numpty, I now know I've been doing too fast a taper but I believe it's too late to updose (I've updated my signature for the dates/doses etc).  I have no plans to do any more tapering until I am totally stable for weeks/months?  The SI has passed but I've been a bit tearful today. 

 

I've also wondered about a bridge with fluoxetine (I read most of the article about that).  I've taken it (and many other meds) over the years and never had a problem with it or changing from one med to another under a quacks instructions.  Obviously it wouldn't be until I'm stable.  I don't know if the risk is worth it but I've heard that Duloxetine is one of the hardest to come off of? 

 

I also wondered if a mod could change my thread to 'RubyWednesday: Olanzapine and Duloxetine withdrawal'.  Any advice would be gratefully received.

 

Ruby x

 

20 hours ago, rubywednesday said:

 

 

[rubywednesday]

Day 312 (well that's what it feels like lol).  Had a bit better day, been tearful off and on (no real SI) but been reaching out for help and trying to make myself eat/look after myself.  Really struggling with so much trauma in other people's lives, none of my friends are in a good place at the moment, There's been quite a few deaths of friend's relatives (and my brother in April) etc and really not looking forward to going to this funeral but I want to support my friend and she's been so good to me.  She brought me round latte pods and caramel tarts and made me laugh, that's her way of coping, I'm more of a talker.   Still not feeling great physically although my sleep has been a bit better.  Got a very busy day tomorrow - phone a client, counselling appointment and the theatre and a meal tomorrow night.  My ex partner has been pretty good too, he puts up with me constantly phoning but he's not a talker either.  That's my biggest problem is not having any/many people I can talk to about my problems/traumas.   Another problem is I feel misunderstood/misjudged or not believed.  Texted a friend, so I'm going to see her Friday and another one to arrange to go to a 70s night.  My diary's pretty full, just hope I don't eff up and let people down.  The guy from the mental health charity was pretty rubbish, trying to get me to join groups when I really needed to talk!  But we got talking about the poems I got published a few years ago and I've emailed them to him and hoping to join the Writing Group when it starts up again, cheered me up quite a bit (maybe I'm not as useless as my sister's would have me believe).  Lost about a kg and a half in weight over the last 10 days, probably fluid.  Still struggling to do my meditation and write my journals but I'll try again tonight/tomorrow.  Still not phoned my sister (I hung up on her last week?) and don't know if/when I will.  She's so lacking in empathy, everything she's been through is ten times worse than anybody else! 

 

Tomorrow I'm going get myself up early, bathe, dress and have a great day!!!  Must stop chain smoking!  Need to phone Kris tomorrow, see if I can extend the befriending a bit longer.  Enough waffle, gotta go weigh my drugs lol !.

 

Ruby x

[rubywednesday]

Sorry I posted this tuesday but I don't think I tagged you right, I would be grateful for any advice.  The scales I have are Hoosiwee 20mg to 0.001 mg I think and are identical to ones I've seen pictured on this site.

 

@brassmonkey sorry to bother you but I would like some advice re how I'm doing my meds. 

 

I'm weighing every tablet and capsule (separately) and work out the (almost) exact weight of each tablet of duloxetine I need to take, ie the beads weigh  0.338 +/- 0.010? and I multiply 35/60 to get that day's tablet (I'm taking 35 mg of a 60 mg tablet) plus the weight of the capsule.  I'm struggling a bit to do it now cause my hands shake, and maybe counting would be more accurate but I've tried that on numerous occasions and really feel unable to do it.  If I ever get to low doses I'll try counting the beads but I'm saving up my 20mg tablets for that purpose.  I think I've bought a fairly accurate scales but they seem to vary by up to about 0.005 or so.  I also calibrate them every night, except Sunday as I forgot to do them until quite late.  I used to take my meds religiously at 10 am and 10 pm but it's varying a bit if I'm sleeping (I went to bed Sunday night at 7.30pm because I got no sleep the night before) and didn't remember to take them til 11.30 am Monday morning.  I'm feeling much more stable today (it might just be a window).  I would be very grateful if you could advise and, like a numpty, I now know I've been doing too fast a taper but I believe it's too late to updose (I've updated my signature for the dates/doses etc).  I have no plans to do any more tapering until I am totally stable for weeks/months?  The SI has passed but I've been a bit tearful today. 

 

I've also wondered about a bridge with fluoxetine (I read most of the article about that).  I've taken it (and many other meds) over the years and never had a problem with it or changing from one med to another under a quacks instructions.  Obviously it wouldn't be until I'm stable.  I don't know if the risk is worth it but I've heard that Duloxetine is one of the hardest to come off of? 

 

I also wondered if a mod could change my thread to 'RubyWednesday: Olanzapine and Duloxetine withdrawal'.  Any advice would be gratefully received.

 

Ruby x

 

 

 

[rubywednesday]

Forgot to mention been getting a bit RLS since Monday, only minor and I think I'm getting a bit paranoia today (probably not withdrawal but the return of my symptoms).  The anxiety has been worse than for many years but comes and goes.  IBS bad again.

 

Day 34 & 35, Had an extremely stressful day yesterday, struggled to understand the client I had to call but I persevered and managed to update my notes/letters ok.  Had my first appointment with a counsellor, person centred counselling.  I was very anxious but I couldn't stop talking and the only thing I'm worried about is that it's only 6 sessions (with maybe an option to increase).  I found it helpful but it's also brought up a lot of trauma which is to be expected I guess.  This left me late for the restaurant and theatre, Chicago, it was great.  Not happy sitting in a theatre with 3,000 people, no social distancing and having to wear a mask for 3 hours wasn't fun but had a good day overall.  Was late taking my meds (11pm) as I wasn't home til late.

 

Slept ok last night, went to a friend's house for coffee and we had a good blether, talked quite a lot about how we've been treated by psychiatrists etc and about our past lives!  Popped in to see another friend on the way home, lovely woman but not someone I can talk to.  Forgot to eat, so treated myself to a pizza!  Mood better than it's been.  Also got a call from a manager at the mental health charity I used to go to and she said she thought I was bipolar (and not borderline personality disorder), it meant a lot to me and its largely why I fell out with the quacks.  Maybe it's serendipity, I'm doing better on my own than with those bastards.  Emailed my smoking counsellor and an addiction worker (who I know very well as he used to be my support worker), hopefully they'll get back to me next week.  Cancelled a meal at my friend's son's house for tomorrow as he's just recovered from Covid and I don't want to take any chances.  Might be seeing Robert tomorrow instead, only known him a few months but last week I told him about some of my mental health issues and he told me about some terrible things he did in the past which I was shocked about but 10/10 for honesty (which is a huge plus for me).  Getting a sore throat and maybe coming down with a cold, the joys of smoking!

 

Ruby x

[rubywednesday]

Day 36, did bugger all, got up quite late and sat thinking of what I want to say to the counsellor, ate a little, listened to music.  Robert was busy so been in all day/night.  Too lazy to go out on my bike (not to mention the weather - but I am British lol). Thought about getting a bottle of wine but luckily didn't, hate to think of the state I'd be in if I did.  Mood a little low, a little tearful but starting to feel stronger by the day (I hope).  Broke a tooth, must see the dentist next week.  (Free dental is one of the perks of being on welfare!)  

 

Ruby x

[Greatful]

@rubywednesday

Sounds like you are doing better.  Wd is a bugger.  I would try and stay away from the alcohol, most people in WD do not do well with alcohol.  This can make your wd symptoms worse.  Maybe you already knew that?

You sure are a busy little person.  On the go, I know that is helps to stay busy, but don't over do it and tire your self out.

Hang in there girl❤️

 

[rubywednesday]

23 hours ago, Greatful said:

@rubywednesday

Sounds like you are doing better.  Wd is a bugger.  I would try and stay away from the alcohol, most people in WD do not do well with alcohol.  This can make your wd symptoms worse.  Maybe you already knew that?

You sure are a busy little person.  On the go, I know that is helps to stay busy, but don't over do it and tire your self out.

Hang in there girl❤️

 

Thanks @Greatful, yeah I really think I've turned a corner.  I've rejoined an alcohol forum to help with the cravings for alcohol and hoping a real life alcohol/drugs group will call me tomorrow (or this week).  I want to ask them about support for prescribed medication withdrawal as well as the alcohol as I read on Cymbalta Hurts Worse that this might be possible in the UK.   Emailed a University about my bipolar (Ultradian Cycling) to see if I can get any information. 

 

A bit worried that the counselling is only 6 sessions.  I can't imagine they can work miracles in that time (I've got a lot of life to talk about lol).  Skived the Salvation Army today so I could watch the London Marathon and surprise surprise eat cake with Jane!  One thing I love about the reduced drugs is my sense of humour is starting to return, I've been such a bore for sooo long!   Hope you are ok today and that tomorrow will be better.

 

Day 37, another sunny day in paradise lol!

 

Ruby x

[rubywednesday]

Day 42, a better day today, had a couple of friends round for coffee which was a good distraction and we ate cake!  Had pretty bad SI on Tuesday and was really struggling to cope on Wednesday during the day but by evening I felt calmer.  My friends's mum's funeral was yesterday which was stressful but glad I was there to support her, so glad it's over.  I guess I've been going through the windows and waves and not really realising it but hopefully the waves will be fewer and further between and the windows brighter.  Sleep's still very variable but I feel ok on it.  Need to practice more self care, eating, exercise, meditation etc, will work on that tomorrow.

 

R x  

[rubywednesday]

Day 45, I wish I wouldn't doubt that this is withdrawal, I feel so angry all the time (I read that this is a withdrawal symptom as well as side effect of duloxetine).   I don't think I've ever been like this before, but the headspace meditation helped and meeting a (virtual) friend for lunch today was nice too.  There's so many nice people out there, why do I pick the idiots!  Boundaries!

 

I went to a 70s night on Saturday and would have enjoyed it if it weren't for 2 of my 'friends'.  Anyway I sent an eff off email to one today, hope I never set eyes on him again and the other I haven't (and will not) accepted her friend request on FB.  Met some of my neighbours who were lovely and another friend came that I hadn't seen in such a long time.   

 

Practising more self care and concentrating on me, trying to fill in my gratitude journal and accepting that w/d will happen and it's a sign of healing.  Hope anyone reading this is not struggling too much and gotta believe there is an end in sight in the not too distant future.  Got my counselling tomorrow, fingers crossed it goes well.

 

Ruby x

[Onmyway]

3 hours ago, rubywednesday said:

Day 45, I wish I wouldn't doubt that this is withdrawal, I feel so angry all the time (I read that this is a withdrawal symptom as well as side effect of duloxetine).   I don't think I've ever been like this before, but the headspace meditation helped and meeting a (virtual) friend for lunch today was nice too.  There's so many nice people out there, why do I pick the idiots!  Boundaries!

 

I went to a 70s night on Saturday and would have enjoyed it if it weren't for 2 of my 'friends'.  Anyway I sent an eff off email to one today, hope I never set eyes on him again and the other I haven't (and will not) accepted her friend request on FB.  Met some of my neighbours who were lovely and another friend came that I hadn't seen in such a long time.   

 

Practising more self care and concentrating on me, trying to fill in my gratitude journal and accepting that w/d will happen and it's a sign of healing.  Hope anyone reading this is not struggling too much and gotta believe there is an end in sight in the not too distant future.  Got my counselling tomorrow, fingers crossed it goes well.

 

Ruby x

Hi Rubywednesday (I like your play on words in your name 🙂).

 

Anger and rage are very common symptoms of WD and they are very prone to getting worse through spirals. It is hard to do this and I haven't always done what I'm preaching now but it's best to send angry emails after a few days/weeks (ideally when you are in a window). Most often you will not even need/want to send the emails. I have thought something that someone did was the most outrageous thing when in a wave and then a month later it seemed completely innocuous. It's hard to trust our emotions in withdrawal.

 

(I'm not saying that what your friend did or didn't do is ok or that your reaction is not appropriate just give yourself time to react.)

 

Take care of yourself. 

OMW

 

[rubywednesday]

42 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

Hi Rubywednesday (I like your play on words in your name 🙂).

 

Anger and rage are very common symptoms of WD and they are very prone to getting worse through spirals. It is hard to do this and I haven't always done what I'm preaching now but it's best to send angry emails after a few days/weeks (ideally when you are in a window). Most often you will not even need/want to send the emails. I have thought something that someone did was the most outrageous thing when in a wave and then a month later it seemed completely innocuous. It's hard to trust our emotions in withdrawal.

 

(I'm not saying that what your friend did or didn't do is ok or that your reaction is not appropriate just give yourself time to react.)

 

Take care of yourself. 

OMW

 

Hi @Onmyway, it is a play on the Stones but my old cat was called Ruby and she was a bit slow, so I used to say she turned up on Wednesday lol.

 

Thanks for confirming about the anger and I know it's good advice in not replying to people when you feel that way but  I've felt like this about this guy for a long time, and for the first time I've given him a piece of my mind.  All I'm worried about is that he won't get it (I may have an old email address for him).  But I feel better having ended the friendship.  I suspect it was the meditation that changed my mood, I now feel calm, a little down but nothing to worry about.  I'm thinking of writing to my sister as I don't feel she's good for my mental health but I definitely would leave it for a while or not post it but I find it helps to get it out of my system.

 

You take care of yourself too and thanks again. 

 

Ruby x

[rubywednesday]

@Onmyway sorry to bother you but I was speaking to my Counsellor today who was trying to get me to tell my doctor about my tapering (my GP thinks I'm on 100 mg when I'm on 35 mg duloxetine).  I don't want to do that but I'm a bit worried that she might tell her if my w/d doesn't get any better the next time I see her.  My w/d isn't that bad on the scale of things but I had quite bad SI last week (I have a long history of suicide attempts) and the anger gets me down a bit and I was wondering if you thought updosing might help, maybe 1 or 2 mg?  Failing that, have you any idea how long this w/d will last?  This is day 46 of 35mg but I realise prior to that I tapered far too fast not realising the cumulative effects of duloxetine (my initial drops actually improved my mood to start with, but I now realise how stupid that was).  Any advice would be gratefully received, thanks.

 

Hope you are well.

 

Ruby x

[Onmyway]

Hi Ruby, 

I haven't actually had a chance to read your thread and I am travelling and working and exhausted so take this advice with a bit of salt. I promise I will try to catch up in 10 days and hopefully give you better advice. 

 

You seem to have lowered your dosage way too fast (which you already know) so the question now is how to manage the symptoms until your body catches up/adapts. One way is to updose and see if that makes a difference. You could for example updose by 1mg as you suggested and see if it makes things better. My advice, usually, is to bear things through if possible as more changes create more chaos. But that is not always possible and suicidal ideation, while by itself is not necessarily dangerous, given your history may indicate that you need to be careful. I see that you took nitrazepam recently and it must be because you really needed it, so if you are resorting to that, maybe it is better to updose and avoid any other brain active chemicals. 

 

What are your current symptoms? How are you managing them? Do you have specific resources - i.e. CBT or DBT worksheets/tools to deal with crises? Do you have a plan for when you are in a crisis like that - i.e. call therapist/friend etc. Do you feel safe despite the suicidal ideation? 

 

I am really sorry that you are suffering this much but take heart, it will get better. How long is hard to say when our brains have been thrown into chaos but the good thing is that it also won't be this bad all the time, especially if you stop tapering and hold for a long time now. 

 

I am hoping that you get some respite soon and please please don't change any of your drugs for a very long while if you can. 

 

Will check in on you soon, 
OMW

[rubywednesday]

Thank you so much OMW, somehow I missed the notification that you'd replied, doh.  I think it's great advice, I really try not to take the nitrazepam but I had a funeral to go to last week and needed to sleep.  So sorry to bother you when you're so busy and exhausted yourself.  (that's why I've not tagged you).  I'll try the 1mg for a while and see if it helps and I'll steer clear of any other medications/changes.  It's been a week or so since I had the SI, mostly my symptoms are anger and some anxiety, mood is low but not that depressed.   I've done DBT years ago but didn't find it helpful apart from the mindfulness/meditation which I've started doing again with some success.  I also do a journal/gratitude journal and today I managed a half hour walk which is the first exercise I've done in a long time.  Luckily I have some great friends who (I've got rid of the arseholes lol) who are helping me, even if it's to make sure I eat/help me with my housework.

 

When in crisis I have a few helplines I can call which really helped the other day and I've got my counsellor but, like I said, I'm a bit worried about her 'duty of care' as informing my doctor is the last thing I want, she seems to be quite knowledgeable about psychiatric drug withdrawal which is refreshing and she seemed to think it was advisable to contact SA and that a 1mg updose was the best way forward.  I also have SA of course which is just an amazing website.  I also spoke to a drug/alcohol manager today regarding support for antidepressant discontinuation syndrome, he's gonna phone me back in a few weeks to let me know if that's within his remit (it probably isn't but the next step is to write to his boss/funders to see if they'll consider it).

 

Thank you so much and I'm sorry for bothering you when you've got so much on yourself.

Take care.

 

Ruby x

[rubywednesday]

Forget the previous post, unfortunately I've not got an option to edit it?  I've been reading about supplements, especially B6 and read that it can cause anxiety (my anxiety has been worse than it has for years) and possibly irritability (could this account for my anger?).   So I've decided to stop both my magnesium + B6 supplement and menopause tablet and see if it makes a difference.  I'm really hoping this helps.  Not sure if this is w/d but I've been getting to sleep better than for such a long time but I can't stay asleep (waking hourly for half the night), it makes mornings awful and I'm sick of the daily headaches which resolve after an hour or two.

 

Ruby x

[Greatful]

@rubywednesday

23 hours ago, rubywednesday said:

So I've decided to stop both my magnesium + B6 supplement and menopause tablet and see if it makes a difference. 

Man, I think they really recommend stopping only one thing at a time, even when it comes to supplements.  I would start with the B6 first since B's can be stimulating.  Stopping all might cause to much a change to your already fragile CNS.  And you won't know which one could be causing the activation. Just my 2 cents. 

 

Plus are you going to up you your med at the same time?

 

The never ending guessing game when it comes to trying to help ourselves.  I get tired of worrying, if I eat this will it make my CNS worse, am I taking to much or not enough of my magnesium,  should I stop taking L Theanine.  Is it really helping.  I guess the quick fix is not going to happen,   Oh that's right, they try to tell us time is the only thing that is constant when it comes to healing🥴 

 

 

 

[rubywednesday]

@Greatful, yeah I wasn't sure about that.  The menopause tablet has over 700% of your daily intake of B6 so I'm definitely stopping that and, with hindsight, the rage started about 2 days (I think) after taking it.  I stupidly thought that because I'd taken it in the past there wouldn't be a problem!  What's really annoying is I asked the pharmacist if it was ok to take the two together and, without reading the box, she said yeah that's fine.  As for the magnesium & B6 tablet I only wanted magnesium but that was all the shop sold.  I'll try and find a magnesium only supplement.  I'm just gonna hold the duloxetine and wait to see if I get a bit better without the menopause tablet.  I was also told that it can take up to a month to come out of your system, so I'm gonna have to be patient, not my strong suit!.  I posted on another site and, even though the moderators mentioned that anger/rage is a well known w/d symptom, there were a few people who had also had really bad reactions to B6.  I've read the B6 thread here which only really mentions anxiety.  I may be clutching at straws but who knows.

 

I feel for you regarding the supplements, someone once recommended to me that I take L-theanine which I did for a short while but didn't notice a difference one way or the other so I stopped it.  I've read that some people have a negative reaction to it, who knows, certainly not the quacks! 

 

Day 48, had a much better day today, no anger/rage, didn't sleep great but had a long lie so felt a bit better, sore head.  If this is a window, long may it last!  Besides Cameron Norrie won the quarter final in the tennis, happy days lol.

 

Ruby x

[Greatful]

@rubywednesday

Oh ruby I love you.  I get a lot of good chuckles from your quick wit.  

As for patience, or should I say the lack of patience, I think I have everyone beat.😆

I get my Magnesium glycinate, Omega, and Pro-biotics on line from Amazon.  Do they service your area?

Quack Quack Quack.

Let the fun continue🙄

[rubywednesday]

19 hours ago, Greatful said:

@rubywednesday

Oh ruby I love you.  I get a lot of good chuckles from your quick wit.  

As for patience, or should I say the lack of patience, I think I have everyone beat.😆

I get my Magnesium glycinate, Omega, and Pro-biotics on line from Amazon.  Do they service your area?

Quack Quack Quack.

Let the fun continue🙄

@Greatfulthat's so kind of you to say, so many of my old friends (the ones I've now dumped) thought I was thick as I was so heavily medicated and I'm a bit deaf so often didn't hear the punchline!  You seem to have a hell of a lot more patience than me but I think impatience is a side effect of duloxetine (I always had to be first in the queue when I was getting my food etc lol).   I was having Epsom salt baths which I think is a gentler way of absorbing magnesium so I'll try that for a while and see if I need to reintroduce a supplement but I do have Amazon here and will bear it in mind if I need anything.  

 

Day 49 woke up feeling so much better, still waking up every hour for half the night but not nearly as tired.  Mood was great until I went out on my bike (first time in weeks).  I was doing fine until an idiot did a u-turn in front of me and I nearly fell off my bike, not only that but he was on his cell phone at the time and had the cheek to shout at me!  I'm gonna get a helmet camera, I just dare them to do it again.  It felt like 'normal' road rage but I was a little disappointed as I thought the anger/rage had passed.  Someone suggested a B6 toxicity group, scary symptoms some people have (small fiber neuropathy), it must be awful but my symptoms aren't/weren't on the same scale.  I think I've learnt my lesson about supplements and will consider long and hard before I put anything in my body (maybe a little red wine - only kidding lol).  

 

Take care everyone.

 

Ruby x

 

PS my ex-partner came to see me (he's still shielding) which he hasn't done in months which was lovely.  Had a visual migraine, no idea if it's related to anything I'm doing, maybe stress but I've not had one in a long time.

[rubywednesday]

Day 50, feeling so much better being off the menopause supplement, anger is gone, fatigue much better, although still not getting great sleep, not as dehydrated/craving salt.  Got out on my bike and visited a friend to cheer her up and her wee dog is just delightful, having a quiet evening as my man friend is busy.  Almost feeling back to normal.  Trying to improve my diet rather than relying on supplements.

 

Ruby x

[Greatful]

@rubywednesday

I haven't heard from you for little while. Is everything okay?

[rubywednesday]

@GreatfulI was in the hospital but they threw me out.  I'm staying with my ex partner as I'm not coping at home.  Hope you are coping ok

 

Ruby x

[Greatful]

@rubywednesday

Oh ruby I am so sorry that you are having such a bad time.  How long were you in the hospital?

I have to say I chuckled at the "they threw me out"  What happened?

I am so relieved that you have somewhere safe to be.  Give your ex a big hug from me.

 

This is a very hard time in life for us.  Hang in there and take care of yourself.❤️

[Greatful]

@rubywednesday How are you ruby?❤️

[rubywednesday]

Thanks for asking @Grateful.  I'm going to stay with my expartner in a day or two.  I've been suicidal and have increased my drugs but I'm finally going to get some help from the ot and psychiatrist.  I guess coming off drugs isn't for everyone.  I'm sorry I've not kept up with your struggles but I hope things are getting better for you and everyone else on here.  

 

Best wishes

 

Ruby xx

 

[Neon]

I wouldnt say you cant live without drugs, you just tapered veeery fast. I mean of course I dont know your underlying condition but you tapered way too fast in my opinion and what they usually recommend on here. so there is some hope, it might just take a while 🙂