Intense: Prozac and Olanzapine

[Intense]

Hello all. I'm glad to have found this community.

 

So back in March of 2015, I was forced to go see a psychiatrist after coming out of a mental hospital. I was only in the mental hospital from January to March of 2015. My doctor first put me on 10mg Lexapro and 10mg Olanzapine. Some months later, I complained that the Lexapro wasn't doing anything for my depression, so he switched me to Prozac and lowered the Olanzapine to 5mg. He prescribed both Prozac and Olanzapine for depression and the Olanzapine for what he believes may be schizophreniform disorder, which I'm pretty sure I do not have. I think it's a misdiagnosis. I have not nor have I ever heard voices or had hallucinations or delusions related to schizophrenia. I do have depression though.

 

Fast forward to today, I've tried quitting the Prozac and Olanzapine cold turkey on April 26, and then I had to resume them on May 4 because I suffered bad withdrawals, especially the insomnia which was from discontinuing Olanzapine. So I've now learned the hard way that you cannot quit these meds cold turkey. The reason I want to quit these meds is because I believe they're not doing anything for my depression and I feel like I'm just a slave to these drugs and I'm just taking them to not experience the withdrawals. I believe I don't have schizophreniform disorder, so I don't need to be on Olanzapine. In fact, the only reason I take Olanzapine is just help me go to sleep. And I don't like the Prozac because it dulls my emotions/makes me emotional numb. I don't feel sad, but I don't feel happy either. There are days where the depression comes back and then it's gone, but the depression is still there. The meds are just masking it. 

 

Now, I spoke to my psychiatrist on April 26, 2021 and I told him I don't wanna take these meds anymore and I want him to help me taper off. He told me he doesn't recommend I stop taking them because he's afraid I might end up in a mental hospital again. He said if I really wanted to, I could just quit these meds cold turkey. Well, I learned the hard way that you cannot do that because of the withdrawals. So my doctor is of no help and not listening to me.

 

I was trying to search for information on how to stop taking meds like Prozac and Olanzapine. And the posts I've read on Reddit say to just taper off of them and never go cold turkey. But it doesn't really go into great detail of how to taper off the meds or what the process is. And then I found this forum and I found lots of helpful posts and tips. But what I didn't anticipate was that I didn't know tapering off of meds was going to be such a tedious process.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @Intense

 

In your situation, I would go off Prozac before olanzapine, to maintain sleep. Reduction of any psychiatric drug is likely to cause withdrawal insomnia. We do not recommend cold turkey or skipping doses to go off.

 

See Why taper by 10% of my dosage?
 

Tips for tapering off fluoxetine (Prozac) Fluoxetine comes in a prescription liquid form for easy tapering.

 

Later you'd go off olanzapine, see Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[Intense]

I have a question for the olanzapine. I'm taking 5mg olanzapine round tablets. I want to make a liquid form of it. I know Olanzapine doesn't dissolve in water, so I don't know if I can use water. I was thinking of using the ORA-Plus suspension, but I don't know how much I need to use for tapering off of Olanzapine or what the dosages are or what the process is. And the Olanzapine needs to be in powder form for use in the ORA-Plus suspension?

[Altostrata]

See Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

[Intense]

Thanks for your help. I found the appropriate topics that answered my questions. I'm just still in shock because of how long it's gonna take to taper off of these meds. I have 5mg Olanzapine, it's a round tablet. When I put it in water, it pretty much just dissolves by itself, so that's convenient. The other reason I wanna taper off these meds is because I would like to try psychedelics. But I can't do them because the meds that I'm taking pretty much prevent you from tripping. So that's why I was kinda shocked by how long it's gonna take to taper off the meds.

[Altostrata]

Yes, the difficulty of going off will be a shock to a lot of people who want to try psychedelics. I expect an epidemic of withdrawal syndrome from that.

[JohnBanes]

Please keep us updated on your Olanzapine discontinuation.  It can be tough, particularly because of the insomnia many (including myself) have had when discontinuing.  In my experience, there aren't a lot of hypnotics that work for the insomnia (and the hypnotics are themselves risky).  I used Ativan for a while to address my post-Olanzapine insomnia (but at the time, I had also cross-titrated to Latuda).

 

As for psychedelics, I would go easy on them at least while you are recovering from the psych med withdrawal.  They can be a real shock to the system, and work on many of the same receptors that anti-psychotics (and some anti-depressants) do.

[Intense]

Do you have any recommendations for scales? I wanna try to taper off of the olanzapine using crushed up powder, put it in a capsule, and swallow the capsule. But I need to weigh out the dose first. I bought a digital scale on Amazon and it's not accurate, the weight kept fluctuating. I need a scale that's more precise and accurate.

[ChessieCat]

Many member us the Gemini-20 scale, or something very similar.

 

using-a-scale-to-weigh-and-measure-doses

 

Search results for Gemini in the above topic:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=gemini&quick=1&type=forums_topic&item=1596

 

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, Intense said:

I bought a digital scale on Amazon and it's not accurate, the weight kept fluctuating. I need a scale that's more precise and accurate.

 

There are videos in the weighing topic.

 

Some members leave the tare weight on their scale whilst weighing.  You also need to check the batteries.

 

Search results for video in that topic:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=video&quick=1&type=forums_topic&item=1596

 

2 hours ago, Intense said:

I wanna try to taper off of the olanzapine using crushed up powder

 

Brassmonkey would crush 10 tablets (I think), and use the stock pile.  Link to search results in that topic:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=stock&quick=1&type=forums_topic&item=1596

[Intense]

Ah, ok. I think I just needed to calculate the weight of the tablet and then from there I calculate the next weight by multiplying it by 90%, do the same for the next weight, so on and so forth. I think what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna start with crushed up olanzapine powder, put them in capsules, swallow them. And then when I start getting to really low doses, like when I get to 0.026g weight, or 0.62g dose, I'm probably gonna switch to liquid doses. I'll have to make my own compounded solutions using the DMSO and ORA-Plus. Probably gonna take me 1 year, 1 month, and 3 weeks to fully taper off, but might take longer than that depending on how sensitive I get in the reductions, watching out for withdrawal symptoms, and needing to stabilize a little longer.

[Intense]

So I have a question. I want to try making a liquid dose of olanzapine especially once I start getting to really small doses. Do I use crushed up 5mg olanzapine tablet, put it in 2.5ML of DMSO, let it sit for an hour and keep stirring it. Then after that, I put it in 2.5ML of Ora-Plus, then take the dose? Or alternatively, do I mix 2.5ML of DMSO and 2.5ML of PBS first and then add the crushed up powder, shake it up, let it sit for several hours, then take the dose? I don't know how reliable this method will be once I start getting to really small doses, like 0.23mg dose. Just to clarify, I do want to start off the tapering by using crushed up powder, weighing the contents on a digital milligram scale, put it in capsules, and swallow them. As I get closer to lower doses, I wanna switch to the liquid form. When I get close to the 0.56mg dose, the weight will be in 0.0001g format and my digital milligram scale does not go that far.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Intense
Fix

[ChessieCat]

I suggest you also ask this question both of these topics:

 

tips-for-tapering-off-zyprexa-olanzapine

 

how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

 

[ChessieCat]

49 minutes ago, Intense said:

As I get closer to lower doses, I wanna switch to the liquid form.

 

Please read this topic:

 

cross-over-changing-form-eg-tablet-to-liquid-of-drug-or-changing-brand-of-same-drug

 

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, Intense said:

So I have a question. I want to try making a liquid dose of olanzapine especially once I start getting to really small doses. Do I use crushed up 5mg olanzapine tablet, put it in 2.5ML of DMSO, let it sit for an hour and keep stirring it. Then after that, I put it in 2.5ML of Ora-Plus, then take the dose? Or alternatively, do I mix 2.5ML of DMSO and 2.5ML of PBS first and then add the crushed up powder, shake it up, let it sit for several hours, then take the dose? I don't know how reliable this method will be once I start getting to really small doses, like 0.23mg dose. Just to clarify, I do want to start off the tapering by using crushed up powder, weighing the contents on a digital milligram scale, put it in capsules, and swallow them. As I get closer to lower doses, I wanna switch to the liquid form. When I get close to the 0.56mg dose, the weight will be in 0.0001g format and my digital milligram scale does not go that far.

 

Hayduke responded in the Tips Topic, which I will put here for your reference:

 

 

[Miko789]

On 6/7/2021 at 5:48 AM, JohnBanes said:

In my experience, there aren't a lot of hypnotics that work for the insomnia (and the hypnotics are themselves risky). 

 

hypnotics have lots of sideffects   groggy  and sleep isnt the optimal, i tried them few years back,

 

i have insomnia when tapering shitprexa, when discontinuation happens  have  symptoms,

 

i can tolerate for 10 days , after 10 days I'm out of myself, irritated

[hayduke]

Hey Intense.  How are you feeling after your cut last month?

[Intense]

I've been able to sleep so far. Some days ago I wasn't able to sleep but I blame that on the injuries in my elbows. I have cubital tunnel syndrome in both of my elbows. It's especially bad in my right elbow, my left one is gonna be next if I don't watch it and take the physical rehab more seriously. Because if that happens, it might actually prevent me from falling asleep. The muscles in my back are also getting tight, so my back is starting to collapse. I have issues in my neck, but it's getting better if I keep doing the neck traction everyday. I'm getting ready to drop to 4mg, or 4.0ml of water and I'll have to start watching for withdrawal symptoms.

[hayduke]

Interesting.  I have been reading a bit lately about how these drugs might soften healthy cartilage, leading to osteoarthritis.  

I have had several considerable joint problems which seem to come and go with the different drugs I was on.  Best doctors in the big smoke haven't been able to explain them any other way.  Osteo is a one way trip though, as I understand.  Look after your body and be gentle while you taper eh

I have found remedial massage very helpful.

Good to hear you are travelling ok

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by hayduke

[Intense]

Sorry, I meant to say 40ml water. And I tried doing 4mg, or 40ml water of olanzapine. I was unable to fall asleep. It felt like no matter what I was doing, I just couldn't fall asleep, so I think the dosage reduction was the cause. I think it was also giving me restless leg syndrome. Should I go back to 4.5mg and if so, how much longer should I stay on it?

[hayduke]

It sounds like you were more comfortable on the brass monkey taper.  Why not stick to that.

If you only made the cut to 4.0mg a day or two ago you could try splitting the difference somewhere sensible (4.3?) and seeing how you feel after a bit of a hold.  These experiences are how you develop a good sense of when to taper and what sized cuts your body tolerates better.

Edited March 27, 2022 by hayduke

[Intense]

I was almost at a point where I wanted to try shrooms or LSD so bad and quit olanzapine cold turkey for a couple days, but then today I thought I don't wanna derail my progress and possibly induce long-lasting withdrawal symptoms and end up making the taper take longer. I've decided I need to commit to my taper because in the end, once I get off olanzapine then I could start microdosing. I'm down to 4.38mg now and back on the 2.5% taper. So far no withdrawals. I'll probably be sticking to 2.5% taper since I seem to be very sensitive to big reductions.

[hayduke]

Some discussion on microdosing here.  If you really know the ropes and decided you would benefit, that's one thing, but we really can't recommend it during withdrawals.

You might find your taper will go quicker if you wait till afterwards.  My nervous system is still so sensitised over 6 months post zero I still wouldn't be rushing to try it at this stage, even a 'nano' dose.  It has certainly been helpful in untangling trauma for me in the past, maybe the future, but I can't even have a little weed at the moment without paying for it for days.

 

[Intense]

Well, I think I messed up. Me being impatient, I tried to go off of 5mg olanzapine for at least 3 days so I could go on an LSD or shroom trip and well, I paid a price for that one. Ended up being very sleep deprived and extremely exhausted and uncomfortable, had restless leg syndrome. I felt so awful, I decided to give in and take the olanzapine just to go to sleep. Maybe it's a sign that I need to wait and commit to the taper.

[hayduke]

That won't be a fun time.  Cutting out the prescription for a brief period won't be anything like your pre-script state, I would predict it feeling pretty messy.  I would suggest just doing the taper at a steady and manageable pace.

 

You might find certain yoga classes will get you some of the benefits you are looking for from entheogens.

[hayduke]

On 5/29/2022 at 12:26 PM, Intense said:

Well, I think I messed up. Me being impatient, I tried to go off of 5mg olanzapine for at least 3 days so I could go on an LSD or shroom trip and well, I paid a price for that one. Ended up being very sleep deprived and extremely exhausted and uncomfortable, had restless leg syndrome. I felt so awful, I decided to give in and take the olanzapine just to go to sleep. Maybe it's a sign that I need to wait and commit to the taper.

How did you go mopping this up, Intense?  Feeling better I hope.

[Intense]

Okay, so I'm having a little bit of an issue. I'm currently down to 4.16mg and I'm starting to have trouble going to sleep. I am not sure if I should stay with this dose or if I should bump it back up to a previous dose and try to hold it a little bit longer. What do you suggest?

[Intense]

Nevermind, the medication and the tapering seems to still be working. I'm still able to go to sleep. It's probably just the injuries in my arms and wrists that's making it hard for me to sleep. And it seems like I'm able to trip on psychedelics again, so that seems to be a good sign. But regardless, I'm going to continue this tapering. I'm down to 4.05mg and will get to 3.95mg by next Wednesday. I still got quite a ways to go. Theoretically, if I continue to do tapering with the 2.5% brassmonkey slide taper, because I'm going at such a slow and careful pace, it should minimize a lot of the withdrawal symptoms But it's gonna take a lot of time to get there.

[Intense]

Just a quick update. I just wanna say that when I started this taper, I started it while I was in a stable state. I've been doing the 2.5% brassmonkey slide taper as scheduled. Now I'm down to 2.81mg. And I just had a 500ug acid trip Wednesday, Dec 28, 2022. And wow, I was seriously surprised by how the olanzapine I'm taking now is now not able to block the acid/psilocybin/psychedelic trips. I think I can safely say that I can now have psychedelic trips without the olanzapine fully blocking it. I went a full 35 hours tripping, with the first day (15 hours from when I started) just spent on the comeup phase alone. After those 15 hours, then I started entering the peak. And even when I tried taking my olanzapine to go to sleep, I still couldn't sleep because I was still tripping. By February 20, 2023, I will reach 2.5mg. April 27, 2023, I'll reach about 2.15mg, and somewhere around June, I'll be at 1.75mg. Then I'll reach 1mg by February 2024 and from there, I'll just be spending the rest of 2024 and 2025 just tapering below 1mg, so I have a long journey ahead of me. But so far, no withdrawal symptoms, everything's been going great so far. I'm really grateful I found this 2.5% brassmonkey slide taper. It's really helped me out.

[Intense]

Hey, so I got an update and a little bit of an issue here. So far, my tapering journey so far has been going well with no problems. I made it to 1.15mg with no issues. Well, I did an acid trip on December 26, 2023 and long story short I had a terrible time. So while I was in the peak, I decided I'm gonna take 1.30mg, or 13ml water, hoping it would kill the trip and it didn't. So I started panicking and decided to take a full 5mg olanzapine tablet, hoping it would kill the trip and it didn't. I tried to sleep it off as best I could. But the next day, I decided to try to go back to my 1.15mg dose to go to sleep and it doesn't seem to have worked. I can't tell if maybe it was because of my elbows and my neck that I was having a hard time going to sleep, but I think it had more to do with the olanzapine. Should I just go back to 1.31mg and continue the taper from there? I can't imagine taking just one 5mg olanzapine tablet would ruin everything because I would think you'd have to be on it for at least a week or two before you start becoming dependent on it again. But I think because I was already at a very low dose and because I didn't take the right dose that I needed for sleep, it may have somehow destabilized me.

[LotusRising]

If you were on 1.15mg and only mixed up your dose for one day, I would go back to the 1.15mg. 

 

The acid trip and olanzapine could have for sure destabilized you, but I would think you'd go back to your baseline if you stay on your usual dose.

[Intense]

2 hours ago, LotusRising said:

If you were on 1.15mg and only mixed up your dose for one day, I would go back to the 1.15mg. 

 

The acid trip and olanzapine could have for sure destabilized you, but I would think you'd go back to your baseline if you stay on your usual dose.

Thank you so much man for the quick reply. I will take note of that and go back to 1.15mg. I'm also thinking my elbow and neck injuries is probably what's making it difficult for me to fall asleep, but I'm trying to fix that day by day with the TENS unit muscle stimulator I got on Amazon.