Kiasofia: Recovering from the damage done by Escitalopram and tapering Lamictal

[Greatful]

@Kiasofia  Good to hear from you.  You stabilized that is great................  It is a good idea to wait until until your ready and take it slowww.

You did your time in horror land.  You are almost off of everything.🤩

 

I am dreaming of being stabilized.......................

I am still stuck where at the same spot.  Waiting in a wave.  

 

Hang it there you are an inspiration❤️

 

 

[Kiasofia]

Thank you @Greatful! I really hope you stabilize soon! Best wishes❤️

[Kiasofia]

On 8/10/2021 at 5:58 PM, Kiasofia said:

I'm hoping that once 32.5 mg becomes the new normal for my body and brain and not 1/3 of the dose it's used to, that tapering can happen a bit faster.

I've been reading about transporter occupancy and it doesn't seem to work this way. Tapering past this point will probably be a challenge even with a long hold since I've reached what Alto calls the "oh-oh point" of my taper. But people hit rough spots and get past them, so there is still hope of being drug free one day. The long hold (and reading and learning) continues for now...

 

 

[Greatful]

@Kiasofia

3 hours ago, Kiasofia said:

But people hit rough spots and get past them, so there is still hope of being drug free one day. The long hold (and reading and learning) continues for now...

 

You have hit a few rough patches and are doing great 🌻  You are learning and holding until you are ready,  you will be drug free.❤️

 

[Greatful]

@Kiasofia  How are you doing?

[Kiasofia]

@Greatful Thanks for checking in  😊 The past two weeks I've been in a good mood and like my normal self. So although I'm well aware that healing is not linear, I again have hope that I've stabilized at 32.5mg. At least I'm certain there will not be a need to ever updose and being stuck at this dose long term is not the worst scenario thinkable, although the dream of being drug free remains.

 

I'm really enjoying feeling normal, so I will continue to hold for the time being. And then figure out if there is a tapering rate that allows me to keep functioning. If it means reducing by 1 mg a year, then so be it. I think once I get to a new chapter in life, where things are more in place, it will be easier to taper, than when things are as up in the air as they are now. When I get overwhelmed with hopelessness now, I have a good reason to feel that way, so it doesn't help that it's withdrawal causing the intense feeling. When I'm stabilized, like now, I am able to deal with my life situation. And right now, that's too important to mess with. So I just have to keep waiting for the right time to start tapering again. For now I will enjoy my "vacation from tapering"🙃

 

How have you been doing these past weeks?

[Greatful]

@Kiasofia  I think that is a good idea.  You are on a pretty low dose as and  you are not having any side affect from the drug you might as well take a break.  You have done some amazing work getting off the meds.  The last little bit will wait. 

I am starting a 2% taper on the Lexapro, am I ready no, but I am sick of the side affects, no appetite, nausea, and I think it stimulates me to much. 

Hoping to do okay with the small cut.  We will see, I am scared.  I have been in this nightmare for about 9 months.

 

Are you going to hang around the site as you are holding?  I hope so.❤️

 

I hope everything in your life settles down and you can enjoy it❤️

[Kiasofia]

Thank you @Greatful! I'll still be on the site and I  have it set up to get email notifications if someone posts here 😊 I'm reading and learning all I can about these drugs and if/when I do manage to taper more, I want to keep this thread updated. I'm very lucky to not have side effects (at least not noticeable...who knows what the drug is actually doing...but it is a low dose at least). I really feel for people like you who are suffering side effects on top of withdrawal effects❤️. I hope the Lexapro taper goes well! At least your on this site and can get good advice along the way.

[DataGuy]

@Kiasofia that is great to hear that you are feeling better. Anything like that is a sign of healing. It may come and go unpredictably, but it should become more frequent as time passes. You have really gotten a strong handle on the concepts. Terrific work : ) 

[Kiasofia]

Thanks @DataGuy😊 The wealth of information on SA has been so helpful! If it wasn't for this site I would have thought there were only two options: stay on Lamictal forever or power through the horror of withdrawal using oxazepam to make it bearable and risk benzo-addiction. Out of fear I would have chosen option one and been crushed to stay trapped on this drug. But learning how to slow taper and reading journeys like Rhiannon's has shown me there's a third option. And doing a long hold, like I am now, is not giving up but an important part of a successful taper. Thank you for all your advice and help!

[DataGuy]

You're welcome @Kiasofia. Please feel free to come back and update whenever you wish. If you feel like attaining more expertise in withdrawal, tapering and post-withdrawal management, we are always looking for help with mentorship, moderating etc. 

 

Hope you are doing well : )

[Kiasofia]

Well the windows and waves pattern holds very true! I've had some good windows but also some waves. Mainly depression and anxiety that are the issue a long with occasionally getting hit with headache and nausea that has me stuck in bed for a day. Like so many on this forum I wonder when it will end and know that there is no answer, but that one day it will!

 

On 9/29/2021 at 11:47 AM, DataGuy said:

If you feel like attaining more expertise in withdrawal, tapering and post-withdrawal management, we are always looking for help with mentorship, moderating etc. 

I've been thinking about this recently actually. I do have the time and I would like to help others in any way I can. I have absorbed a lot of information so far that I would like to put to use and am always interested in learning more. I don't know what it takes to qualify as a moderator? I still get stumped about a lot of questions people ask, and often there are no sure answers to offer, but I think I have a good handle on the basics by now. And mentorship I suppose is a matter of checking in on people's threads like Greateful does

[Greatful]

@Kiasofia  Hi there, how are you doing?  

[Kiasofia]

Hi @Greatful! Thank you for checking in❤️ I've had some rough waves but also a lot of long good windows. So I haven't stabilized, but I'm having some good days again now after two weeks of feeling down. I realize it's normal for a person's mood to shift, but I can tell it's still withdrawal warping my way of thinking and looking at things, because I still feel very different from when I was on 50 mg. If I could go back in time I would have stayed at 35 mg in May for a long hold. I think I was just in a window, and mistook it for having stabilized at 35 mg. I think I'm still adjusting to the taper from 50 mg and down. At least I can function! I just need to be very mindful of my thoughts and not pay them too much attention! How are you these days?

[Greatful]

@Kiasofia

It is crazy how going from 35mg to 32.5mg can make a difference.  What is stable anyways.  I feel like we have window and waves for quite some time.  I guess they say W/D normal is when you still have symptoms, but you can still function,  the symptoms just stable out from up and down so much.    

I know that I am in still in w/d but we did a 3% drop in the Lex. 12 days ago and let me tell you that was not a fun ride for a few days.  I think I am coming around but slowly.  Feeling really fatigued and low mood today. Did you ever get the chills.  I have been having freezing cold spells.  I just wish my brain would work right ugh.

On 9/29/2021 at 4:47 AM, DataGuy said:

we are always looking for help with mentorship, moderating etc. 

I think you should do this, at least the mentorship.  There is so many hurting people that need support.  Man I hate these drugs.........

Have you ever looked around the theinnercompass site?  There is a lot of good information here also.

https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org

 

Hang in there, if you are having good windows you are past the half way point I'd say☺️

 

[DataGuy]

On 9/30/2021 at 9:50 AM, Kiasofia said:

Well the windows and waves pattern holds very true! I've had some good windows but also some waves. Mainly depression and anxiety that are the issue a long with occasionally getting hit with headache and nausea that has me stuck in bed for a day. Like so many on this forum I wonder when it will end and know that there is no answer, but that one day it will!

 

I've been thinking about this recently actually. I do have the time and I would like to help others in any way I can. I have absorbed a lot of information so far that I would like to put to use and am always interested in learning more. I don't know what it takes to qualify as a moderator? I still get stumped about a lot of questions people ask, and often there are no sure answers to offer, but I think I have a good handle on the basics by now. And mentorship I suppose is a matter of checking in on people's threads like Greateful does

 

Yes, exactly, @Kiasofia. Ideally you have a good idea of the site and its contents, as well as some knowledge on tapering, stabilizing etc. I think it is a great sign that you stabilized yourself so well using what you learned here. Anything you don't know, you can always brush up on later. I think I have learned more about science and medicine in the last 3 years than I ever did prior to that, and I was actually interested before!

 

Alto will periodically take on more mentors and moderators, but she is pretty busy. In the meantime you can try poking around the site and helping where you feel you have some knowledge, which I see you've already started to do. Very gratifying to help someone in distress where doctors cannot. Many of the moderators still have wd problems (not to mention life demands) of their own, so it's always good to have extra people to help out : )

[Kiasofia]

@DataGuy @Greatful Alto contacted me and invited me to become a moderator🙂 I'm looking forward to it! This is such an important site and I can imagine there's always a need for more help. I sadly don't see the psych drug epidemic ending any time soon....

 

[Greatful]

@Kiasofia  Congratulations Kiasofia.  You have endured so much with these drugs and the physic field in general.  

You have to motivation to help and support all of us that are enduring to understand what in the world happened to me.  

9 minutes ago, Kiasofia said:

I sadly don't see the psych drug epidemic ending any time soon....

I would love to see so changes in how these meds are viewed.  There are more and more people speaking out.  But yes it may take awhile for things to come to  ahead and changes made.  It will be hard to fight big Pharma.  The seem to have their hands in to may places!

Technology will help in spreading the word.  

 

 

[Kiasofia]

14 hours ago, Greatful said:

Technology will help in spreading the word.

Yes! How could a peer support like this site exist without the internet. Using "Dr. Google" is often mocked and "listening to the internet" rather than a doctor is considered irresponsible, but sadly (and scarily) most doctors give advice that only works for some people and is dangerous for others. I was told by the psychiatrist who put me on lithium to just quit lamictal once I felt stable since "lithium and lamictal do the same thing (mood stabilizers) so there's no point in taking both". I've read enough here to know this is pure nonsense and shows a complete lack of knowledge about how these drugs work. If I trusted the expert and quit lamictal I would for sure have been hospitalized again and I shudder to think of what "help" I would have been given then. Imagine going from 100 to 0 mg lamictal when the journey from 50 mg to 32.5 mg  has been this rough!

[DataGuy]

Great to hear @Kiasofia. I'm glad you are willing to donate your time to help people navigate this treacherous journey. It's a great learning experience. People like you and @Greatful are invaluable. Both doing lots of important work : )

[Greatful]

@Kiasofia  Hi there, are you working on becoming a moderator?  How are you doing other wise?😊

[Kiasofia]

@GreatfulI'm just getting started🙂 I've continued to feel good the past two weeks except I got knocked out with a headache and nausea again on Wednesday and Thursday and some anxiety waves. But otherwise not too bad! It's been a while since I've been overwhelmed with despair and hopelessness, so I'm very grateful for that! How are you?

[DataGuy]

How are you doing, @Kiasofia? Has moderating kicked up any additional symptoms? Can be a bit stressful (but rewarding). Hope all is well. 

[Kiasofia]

Thanks for checking in @DataGuy

I could see how moderating/spending considerably more time on the forum could kick up symptoms, but so far so good. No new wave yet. Maybe this window is true stabilization...it's been about 4 weeks....so I dare to hope at least.

 

It's been very interesting getting to know the forum better and meeting new members. Before I became a moderator I was only focusing on what is relevant to know for my case. So it's given me a reason to expand my knowledge of this field and I enjoy learning more. Trying not to get too overwhelmed. And not get too frustrated....I'll avoid repeating my "doctor rant"! But the drug cocktails people are put on...why....how... Deciphering drug signatures and understanding what is going on and what to do is not easy!

[DataGuy]

That is great to hear, @Kiasofia. Stability is terrific, whether it is the result of windows or actual, lasting stability. Allows us to feel much more secure in trying new things and being productive, without the fear we will fall back into the pit of wd. 

 

Yes, it is very easy to get overwhelmed. There is quite a bit to learn. I have been here for over a year and am still missing plenty of knowledge. It's comforting to know that even with partial "core" knowledge we can still improve upon what doctors do. We can get people stabilized, stop the destructive pattern of new prescriptions or polypharmacy and hopefully get them back to functionality (eventually). At this point in history, psychiatric treatment is mostly a dead-end of disability or perpetual instability. Very strange that it is the patients who have to figure this out. 

[Kiasofia]

On 10/31/2021 at 6:56 AM, DataGuy said:

At this point in history, psychiatric treatment is mostly a dead-end of disability or perpetual instability.

I think about this a lot. And while on the one hand I've been told I have been very unlucky (having an adverse reaction, getting long term memory loss from ECT), the more I learn and the more case stories I get to know, I realize I was in fact very lucky!

 

If it wasn't for being academically minded, maintaining good persuasive communication skills throughout my hospitalization and having family confirming that I'd had an adverse reaction, I think I would have been lost in the system forever. Getting more drugs, reacting badly to them and piling on the diagnoses.

 

Especially this documentary made me see that:

 

Happy Pill documentary

 

A woman spent 10 years being force injected with APs for "schizophrenia". But then was cured of this chronic disease when she discontinued the drugs. We are the same age and grown up in the same country, so I really feel her story could have been mine.

 

This one is similar, except she "only" lost 1 year of her life to the madness.

 

The pill that steals lives

 

And now the SSRI Fluvoxamine is reccomended to treat Covid...How many more will suffer as a result? Though I start to get the sense that very few people alive today will make it through life never having taken an AD. Medical professionals can find a reason to put most people on them, for whatever reason. And then it's a matter of being lucky or unlucky how one reacts to starting, taking and quitting them. Meanwhile we'll just have to support those who suffer as best we can, until the medical professionals wake up...

 

Ok....that was today's rant🙈 Time for a walk, fresh air, nature and not dwelling on this!

[DataGuy]

Thanks @Kiasofia. I will check out those two videos. CEPUK is an excellent organization. I have read Luke Montagu's story. Gotzsche is a giant of evidence-based medicine. He has probably been the highest profile advocate against mainstream psychiatric treatment on a scientific basis. Very interesting guy. 

 

It's bizarre that doctors see these drugs as benign. I suppose it is in part because the adverse effects often look like various MH problems. This is why I think it's important that drugs actually show that they improve discrete health outcomes like all-cause mortality in trials. Otherwise you end up with pointless medication regimens with little expectation of them working.

 

I'm sorry you received ECT. It's a ridiculous "therapy" that makes no sense on numerous levels. The evidence for it is terrible, there is little bioplausibility, it is clearly dangerous....very embarrassing for the medical profession. I think it shows that doctors simply lack a scientific education. 

[Dreamingaboutbetterdays]

Hi @Kiasofia,

 

reading your story gives me hope that healing is possible. Are you fully functional now, when on Lamictal? 

And do you think that going to the hospital for ECT was a bad decision? I am asking because I myself, suffered adverse reaction by taking high doses of St. John's Wort for only three days, while being in protracted withdrawal from paroxetine (10mg). Actually my withdrawal from paroxetine was not so bad, but I started to feel a little bit low in the 3rd month, and my psychologist suggested some natural remedy that could help me. So I decided why not to try, it is only a herb... I did not know back then that it was the worst decision of my life, did not know surviving antidepressants back then. On the third day all hell broke loose. I could not sleep, could not eat, was suicidal, depressed, anxious, etc..just like you. 

Now it's been one and a half month and my life is still hell and I can not believe that. I am doing slightly better mentally, see some slight improvements, but overall I can barely function. My doctor wants to put me back on paroxetine and does not believe in adverse reaction... When you were in hospital, did they actually admitted that you had bad reaction to drug? I feel so hopeless talking to psychiatrists, who think that all I am experiencing right now is my depression coming back..

 

 

[Kiasofia]

Hi @Dreamingaboutbetterdays

Wow, I didn't know St. John's Wort could do that. I was considering taking it instead of restarting escitalopram when I was in withdrawal, but the psychiatrist said it wasn't strong enough. Instead she had me take 10mg escitalopram and have me go insane. I've been frustrated that I didn't try something safer like St. John's Wort, but knowing what happened to you I will no longer think that. I'm so sorry you are suffering and not getting needed support and help from professionals!

 

My withdrawal symptoms from Lamictal are rare and not bad.I didn't really decide to get ECT, but once I was hospitalized, they offered it and I was desperate to be put out of my horrible condition. I really wish I could have it undone! They say long term memory loss is very rare. But that is pure nonsense. The truth is that those with long term memory loss (which is most people!) are told it's what depression does to people and not ECT.... As if depression can cause you to not remember a course you took or a vacation you were on...

 

I was hospitalized for six weeks and it took four weeks before they accepted that it was "likely" that I'd had an adverse reaction and submitted a report about it. Most psychiatrists will see "a return of the original condition". More important than convincing them that they are wrong, is finding a safe path for dealing with withdrawal. I highly recommend using this forum for that! In my experience, listening to "the professionals" can be dangerous.

[Kiasofia]

12 hours ago, DataGuy said:

I suppose it is in part because the adverse effects often look like various MH problems

Yes. That is what is so horrible. A profession that is meant to help the mentally ill, gives people pills that makes them mentally ill and doesn't even realize it.

 

The woman in Happy Pill documentary  actually goes to Denmark and talks to Gotzsche.

 

12 hours ago, DataGuy said:

I'm sorry you received ECT. It's a ridiculous "therapy" that makes no sense on numerous levels. The evidence for it is terrible, there is little bioplausibility, it is clearly dangerous....very embarrassing for the medical profession. I think it shows that doctors simply lack a scientific education. 

 

Thanks. I'm sorry too. It's pretty bizarre they recommended it. It made me euphoric and they saw me as cured. Mission accomplished. But being deranged in a good mood or deranged in a bad mood is still deranged... CEPUK has this article on ECT...Should ECT be judged by the standards of homeopathy?

Basically about how unscientific the basis for using it is. It's just the doctor's and patient's subjective experience. No hard science. I've heard the term "Scientism" used to describe psychiatry. Because it's just a belief system, not science. And scarily, it ignores science.

[DataGuy]

On 11/3/2021 at 5:26 PM, Kiasofia said:

 

 

 

Thanks. I'm sorry too. It's pretty bizarre they recommended it. It made me euphoric and they saw me as cured. Mission accomplished. But being deranged in a good mood or deranged in a bad mood is still deranged... CEPUK has this article on ECT...Should ECT be judged by the standards of homeopathy?

Basically about how unscientific the basis for using it is. It's just the doctor's and patient's subjective experience. No hard science. I've heard the term "Scientism" used to describe psychiatry. Because it's just a belief system, not science. And scarily, it ignores science.

 

That is an excellent article. The case against ECT is pretty clear and it isn't terribly irrefutable. Many great articles on the subject, including that one. They do not have a single quality study and I think the same thing is happening with TMS. Too little regulation in the medical devices area and it leads to predatory research practices.

 

Glad you are doing better now. Very lucky you were able to stabilize and can now make your way down the mountain cautiously. You have had a lot to recover from, and hopefully the recovery is complete in the next few years : )

[Greatful]

@Kiasofia

How are you doing?  I see that you are very busy and learning a lot.  Are you managing okay?  ☺️

 

[Kiasofia]

@Greatful It's been a busy week! Very many people joining the forum. I'm relieved people find their way here, but wish the need didn't exist. That these drugs were banned, or at the very least that doctors used common sense in prescribing. No polydrugging, no cold turkey and no high doses. Thanks for chiming in and sharing words of comfort here and there on people's threads. It's very much needed! How is your lexapro tapering going? Do you use a liquid or scale?

[Greatful]

@Kiasofia  You sure a busy woman.  I saw you link Meditating Normal on a members thread.

I went there. What do I need to do.   Buy a ticket then does it stream to my computer?  It said that they are streaming it June 30 to Dec.30

Thanks for all you are doing.

 

How are you doing yourself?🤗 

[Kiasofia]

23 minutes ago, Greatful said:

You sure a busy woman.

At times😅 And so are you!! It's a busy forum! So sad...when what we offer of advice should be so obvious for doctors to provide instead.

 

26 minutes ago, Greatful said:

I saw you link Meditating Normal on a members thread.

I went there. What do I need to do.   Buy a ticket then does it stream to my computer?

Yes, you press Get Tickets (7$) and then it streams to your computer. I don't remember how long a ticket lasts for but I think it's a few days at least. And can be done until the end of the year it says. But I'm sure they will have viewing options in 2022 as well. I know they are hoping to get on Netflix or another streaming site. I hope they do!

 

I'm doing ok/good. Had a minor wave the past week, where I just felt more blah than I had been for a few weeks. But nothing like the waves I had this summer/early fall. It seems to be improving. It helps to be on the forum then and focus on others instead of myself. Thanks for checking in❤️

[ThatOneGirlStitch]

Just wanted to stop by to wish you well and thank you for your work here.