HopeForTomorrow: SSRI and benzo withdrawal

[HopeForTomorrow]

Hi friends. I have been getting information from this site for a while so it's about time I made an account. I have been handed a pretty crappy situation (like everyone else here) and trying to decide what to do. The beginning was very rough. The awakening of what happened and what was to come, then trying to cope after seeing it all. Thank God I found Benzo Buddies and SA or I probably would've been polydrugged even more....so for that, thank you to whoever started and helps keeps this site going.

 

I would love some advice from you guys because right now, I feel stuck. And maybe that means holding? I'm not sure.

 

Here's the low down:

Zoloft 2008-2009? CT - No Issues - Underage! 14 years old. Had anxiety (looking back...gut issues/hormones/recurring UTI's caused it)
Xanax - as needed VERY RARELY 2008-2018 - maybe 1-2 a year? for random bouts of anxiety
Celexa 10mg - 2012-2014 - Started after a panic attack. Looking back, I didn't eat a good breakfast and had too much caffeine but here we go.
Crossover to Paxil 20mg - 2014 - Celexa pooped out. Paxil "worked"
Crossover from Paxil to Lexapro 20mg - 2016 - because I was told Lexapro is better when I'm ready to get pregnant 😐
Crossover from Lexapro to Celexa - May 2020 - gradually increased to 30mg. - because I had hormone issues/stomach issues that triggered anxiety (or Lexapro pooped, I don't know) Also prescribed Lorazepam for help with the anxiety. Took it randomly
Once hit 30mg, adverse reaction. Akathisia/anxiety BAD - worst experience of my life. Was in this torture for 2 weeks - I was told it couldn't be my meds but that it may be so cold Turkey July 2020
Withdrawal hit hard 5 days later - hypersexual. Discovered PGAD through google - freaked out thinking the only "cure" was medicine because that's what PGAD facebook group said...bad idea - PGAD is a nightmare symptom. 
Was told to take Lorazepam for symptoms - around .25-.5mg/day
Propranalol 5mg at night - current
Tried Buspar 10mg 3 days (didn't help pgad), nortiptyline 1mg a week (helped pgad, heart symptoms) - STOPPED.
Realized meds may be the problem. Stopped lorazepam for a day, AWFUL symptoms, realized I was dependent. Found Benzo Buddies
Benzo Buddies and Google led me to SA.org - told doctor I wanted to reinstate Celexa at a low dose. Started 1mg Celexa liquid and held. PGAD calmed down A LOT (only random flares) so I knew reinstatement was working.
Got on Lorazepam schedule of .125mg 3 times a day.
Stabilized on 1mg Celexa and .375mg Lorazepam (rough - nowhere near 100% just a gradual state of feeling bad with waves that are worse)
Started cutting lorazepam randomly with dry cuts. Got down to .20mg Lorazepam by January 2021. Tried to cut 15%, hit a wall. Realized with BB that it may be easier with liquid for cuts. Pill was tiny and I had a hard time weighing. I tried to make my own liquid, one dose and I was in bad shape so knew I needed a compound to help.

Prescribed Lorazepam compound with almond oil, felt okay but almond oil caused worse PGAD (I have learned magnesium flares PGAD for me and almond oil, almonds, and almond milk contains magnesium - crazy I'm so sensitive)
Switched back to pills, stabilized. Went back to try another liquid with olive oil. No pgad but they used a generic pill instead of the powder they used before, bad symptoms. Went back to pill, stabilized.
Then switched to new compound with olive oil. Had to updose to .225mg to transition - stabilized for 3 days finally.
Cut .001mg every week. Now down to .219mg and last few cuts have been really bad with insomnia/anxiety/feeling really bad.

 

Insomnia only lasts for about 2 days each cut but the anxiety and feeling bad lasts for a while before I stabilize. I'm still not stable from my last .001mg cut on Sunday.

 

ALSO - I found out last Monday I have a UTI. Initial test was negative, culture came in with E-Coli. Due to my severe sensitivies, I am treating with dmannose, cantharis and Uva Ursi tea I will start soon. The symptoms have calmed but still feel overall terrible. I'm hoping the last cut was bad because the UTI made it worse?

 

Anyway - I have been through so much over the last year and I feel like I've hit a wall. I would really love some advice.

 

Benzo Buddies has helped but they're not familiar with SSRI withdrawal.

My initial thought at this point was to stabilize and lower SSRI using Brass Monkey Taper but the Celexa does keep the PGAD at bay most of the time.

 

Since that is the case, my thought is to get off of the lorazepam first. I am definitely learning how to listen to my body/surrender to this all.

With that said - my questions:

1. Should I have held longer with the switch to liquid? I'm starting to think I should have held longer to allow my nervous system to adjust but not sure. Is that why my teeny tiny cuts are bad right now?

2. Is it a good plan to drop lorazepam first? I am in a pickle because I started feeling worse (malaise) around the time I got on the Ativan schedule so I'm not sure if it's making everything worse, etc. I haven't felt good on it but I'm also in SSRI withdrawal so not sure what is what?

3. I know this is a really long time from now BUT after withdrawing from Lorazepam, how long should I wait to taper the Celexa OR do I just follow my gut/symptoms?

 

I need to be as functional as possible, of course. Right now, I feel overall crappy when I'm stable but able to push through.

Brain burning, anxiety, stomach issues, bladder issues, fatigue, malaise, body aches BUT sleeping okay and working and taking care of my family. Fighting!

Each tiny cut I've made from Lorazepam since switching to liquid brings on insomnia for a couple of days and bad fear/anxiety/sensitive to noise/irritability/tinnitus/anger/laying on the couch a lot.

 

I would love any advice. I will try to put this all in my signature! 

 

Thank you so so much for your help.

 I know one day healing will come but getting there is a struggle that you all know oh so well.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Gridley

[HopeForTomorrow]

I also want to say too:

 

I tried to add magnesium (Doctors Best), it was calming but made PGAD flare

I added omega-3 fish oil (NOW Foods) for a while. It helped with fatigue and crying spells BUT started making me jittery after taking

I added vitamin C to help with cortisol spikes. I don't think I've had any reactions to it.

I eat very clean - mostly paleo. Lots of salmon. NO sugar, NO caffeine, NO alcohol.

I seem to be extremely sensitive to changes, foods and supplements.

 

My doctor is willing to help me through this all.

My therapist is great - she watched the "medicating normal" video so she is listening to me.

 

I believe my control issues and "quick fix" attitude got me into this mess as well as doctors not educating me or my parents.

I believe I will heal with God's grace and mercy and be better because of this and I WILL help others through this when I heal.

 

Thank you so much!

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, HopeForTomorrow.  Thank you for completing your drug signature.

 

We recommend tapering activating drugs, like SSRI's such as Celexa, first, leaving sedating drugs, like benzos such as Lorazepam, in place to taper later.  This is to help preserve sleep.

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

Because you've made many changes, I would hold where you are for at least three months in order to stabilize.  You may need longer--listen to your body.  

 

When you're ready to taper, this link is specifically about tapering Celexa.

 

Tips for tapering off citalopram (Celexa)

 

Regarding the Magnesium and Omega-3's, since you've had mixed results, you'll have to decide whether the benefits outweigh the detriments.  Whether starting or stopping a supplement, do so with only one at a time so you can gauge your symptoms as to what is causing what.

 

Here is some helpful information on withdrawal and the healing process.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain the healing process really well.

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mia1]

Have you tried organic cranberry capsules for the recurring UTI’s? 

[HopeForTomorrow]

2 hours ago, Gridley said:

We recommend tapering activating drugs, like SSRI's such as Celexa, first, leaving sedating drugs, like benzos such as Lorazepam, in place to taper later.  This is to help preserve sleep.

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

This was my first thought too but couple of things (let me know what you all think!):

1. Celexa reinstatement stopped the PGAD (thank God I read about a low reinstatement here) and that was by far the most debilitating and terrifying symptom of all time that left me bedridden. I am scared once I start dropping that, those symptoms with arise which to me, are unbearable.

2. I haven't been on Lorazepam as long but I have never felt well on it. I'm fatigued really badly, not like myself, it contributes to anhedonia. Before I was on a steady schedule of Lorazepam, I did not deal with the anhedonia/fatigue so a part of me always questions if it's never meshed well with me. The yucky side effects. As I did the big cuts of Lorazepam, I actually started to feel a little better until I hit a wall.

3. Has anyone ever done a taper at the same time? Let's say cut SSRI, hold. Cut benzo, hold? Not sure what's best. 

 

2 hours ago, Gridley said:

Because you've made many changes, I would hold where you are for at least three months in order to stabilize.  You may need longer--listen to your body.  

 

When you're ready to taper, this link is specifically about tapering Celexa.

 

Tips for tapering off citalopram (Celexa)

 

As frustrating as this is, I have to agree here. I am not feeling stable at all. I'll feel stable for a week, make a tiny drop and feel terrible. The goal here is for the cuts to be manageable, correct? And stabilizing first for a while first is crucial?

 

Thank you so much Gridley! How was your Lexapro taper? You have come such a long way. So proud of you.

 

Also, how is the crossover to Valium + why did you choose that route? My doctor suggested this as an option at one point but I told her no since my dose is low. 

 

She doesn't understand 100% but she had PAWS from cold turkey tramadol a long time ago so she gets it a tiny bit.

[HopeForTomorrow]

1 hour ago, Mia1 said:

Have you tried organic cranberry capsules for the recurring UTI’s? 

 

Hi Mia! I have not but I'm about to start today. I use Dmannose and I ordered Uvi Urva tea because I heard it can help. 

 

When I get a UTI, it's not normal symptoms. I get severe anxiety/flushing/agitation+urinary stuff...it's insane. I got an antibiotic today after trying to treat it homeopathically for 2 weeks.

[Gridley]

41 minutes ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

As I did the big cuts of Lorazepam, I actually started to feel a little better until I hit a wall.

3. Has anyone ever done a taper at the same time? Let's say cut SSRI, hold. Cut benzo, hold? Not sure what's best. 

 

Those are certainly valid arguments for tapering the Lorazepam first.  You will have to decide.

 

Some members have posted about tapering one drug for a while, then another. It's tricky.  It's not our general recommendation but some members have had success with this.  The posts I've read from these members indicate that they are very attuned to their systems.  It would, I believe, take that type of close attention to go this route.

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

How was your Lexapro taper? You have come such a long way. So proud of you.

 

Also, how is the crossover to Valium + why did you choose that route? My doctor suggested this as an option at one point but I told her no since my dose is low. 

Thanks for asking.  On whole, my Lexapro taper was smooth, with a few to-be-expected bumps along the way.  I'm 6.5 months off now.

 

I wouldn't have done the crossover except that Lorazepam stopped being available in Ecuador (the second time that's happened to me) and Valium was.  I would've preferred tapering the Lorazepam (I believe the dance-with-the-one-you-came-with approach in tapering) but I had no choice.  Crossovers are tricky, and I had some depression initially (a known side effect of Valium) but that resolved.  So the crossover was a success ultimately and I'm slowly tapering down.

[HopeForTomorrow]

28 minutes ago, Gridley said:

1 hour ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

 

Those are certainly valid arguments for tapering the Lorazepam first.  You will have to decide.

 

Some members have posted about tapering one drug for a while, then another. It's tricky.  It's not our general recommendation but some members have had success with this.  The posts I've read from these members indicate that they are very attuned to their systems.  It would, I believe, take that type of close attention to go this route.

I think I’ll focus on stabilizing for a month or 2 and then decide which route to go. It’s going to be a hard decision. I guess I could cut Celexa and see how I do. I just don’t want to mess my symptoms up if I had to hold because of PGAD and go back to tapering lorazepam. It will be hard. 

[HopeForTomorrow]

15 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Thanks for asking.  On whole, my Lexapro taper was smooth, with a few to-be-expected bumps along the way.  I'm 6.5 months off now.

That’s incredible. I plan on doing the Brass Monkey slide for tapering my Celexa when the time comes. Did you get liquid lexapro or cut and weigh pills?

 

16 minutes ago, Gridley said:

I wouldn't have done the crossover except that Lorazepam stopped being available in Ecuador (the second time that's happened to me) and Valium was.  I would've preferred tapering the Lorazepam (I believe the dance-with-the-one-you-came-with approach in tapering) but I had no choice.  Crossovers are tricky, and I had some depression initially (a known side effect of Valium) but that resolved.  So the crossover was a success ultimately and I'm slowly tapering down.

Wow! I am so sorry that happened. There is 100% a reason for this though so maybe there’s a blessing in it all. I’m glad the depression is subsiding some. I have definitely heard that Valium causes that at first. 
 

How was the drop off from lexapro? Did you feel good before you started the crossover to Valium?

[Gridley]

33 minutes ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

Did you get liquid lexapro or cut and weigh pills?

There's no liquid Lexapro in Ecuador.  I weighed powder.

 

34 minutes ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

 

How was the drop off from lexapro?

My drug history is complicated in that (to the best of my knowledge) I'm still feeling the symptoms of a too fast pre-SA taper of Imipramine 5 years ago. 

 

But I didn't notice any worsening symptoms after I dropped to zero on Lexapro, and I'm very happy to be off it.  

 

38 minutes ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

Did you feel good before you started the crossover to Valium?

I felt stable.

[Gridley]

49 minutes ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

I think I’ll focus on stabilizing for a month or 2 and then decide which route to go.

That's an excellent idea.

[HopeForTomorrow]

Hey guys! 
 

Hoping for advice here. I have been fighting a UTI for a couple of weeks. I tried to treat it naturally with dmannose mostly. I tried Cantharis and colloidal silver for a couple of days. The symptoms varied but ended up getting worse on Friday. I got a shot of rocephin. I immediately had some diminishing symptoms from the UTI but definitely didn’t knock it out. My doctor prescribed macrobid (nitrofurantoin) to take twice a day for 7 days. I took it this morning and have had irritability, inner restlessness, some nausea and diarrhea. 
 

I am wondering if I should stop it and try a different, safer antibiotic like amoxicillin or if I should just ride out the macrobid? If it gets any worse, I don’t think I can handle. It feels a bit like akathisia. 
 

I do not want this to send me backwards

[HopeForTomorrow]

On 5/21/2021 at 5:28 PM, Gridley said:

There's no liquid Lexapro in Ecuador.  I weighed powder.

 

My drug history is complicated in that (to the best of my knowledge) I'm still feeling the symptoms of a too fast pre-SA taper of Imipramine 5 years ago. 

 

But I didn't notice any worsening symptoms after I dropped to zero on Lexapro, and I'm very happy to be off it.  

 

I felt stable.

I was cold turkeyed from Celexa, reinstated at 1mg a couple months later. It stopped PGAD and I was able to stabilize/get to withdrawal normal after also steadying the lorazepam. 
 

Since I was cold turkeyed and reinstated, how do I know when it’s safe to taper it? I guess what I’m asking is, does cold turkeying and reinstating damage you for your future taper?

 

That’s great you felt stable enough to start the Valium taper after tapering lexapro. It gives me hope.

 

Are you functioning well? (As well and symptom free as possible?)

 

I wish you so so much healing. 
 

THANK you for your help!

[Gridley]

35 minutes ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

I guess what I’m asking is, does cold turkeying and reinstating damage you for your future taper?

No, a cold turkey and reinstatement does not damage you permanently for future tapering.   The important thing is to stabilize after the reinstatement.  This typically takes several months after the RI  before you start thinking about tapering again.  You will know it's safe to taper again when you feel stable.  Stable does not mean you feel good, but rather that you feel the same degree of blah or so-so every day with no big swings in symptoms.  From your post, it sounds like you're getting there. 

 

35 minutes ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

Are you functioning well? (As well and symptom free as possible?)

I'm functioning pretty well.  I have symptoms, but, as I said earlier, my case is complicated because of polydrugging.  Some symptoms that were troubling in the past have in large part disappeared, such as cortisol mornings, anxiety, and severe back of neck pain.  Lately I've embarked on projects around the house that were beyond me a year ago.  I attribute this, at least in part, to the lessening of my drug burden.  I feel less numbed and more at peace.  One very big thing for me is the recent return of my conscious connection to spiritual matters, which had disappeared for much of my taper.

 

Your drug burden isn't high, and you will do fine.

 

35 minutes ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

I wish you so so much healing. 

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Gridley

[HopeForTomorrow]

@Altostrata @Gridley

 

I’m so sorry to tag you both. I am due to take my next dose of antibiotic at 8:30. 
 

I have had on and off inner akathisia since I took my first dose this morning. 
 

Should I stop and call the doctor for a new antibiotic tomorrow or take it and tough it out?

 

The waves of akathisia and nausea/diarrhea are troublesome. I had a shot of rocephin with no symptoms like this.

 

If I stay on it, I think I will have to take Benadryl or an antihistamine to deal with it. Is that safe temporarily?

[Gridley]

24 minutes ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

 

Should I stop and call the doctor for a new antibiotic tomorrow or take it and tough it out?

Alto might know better than I.  If you've done okay before on other antibiotics but not on this one, I'd be inclined to call the doctor for a different antibiotic.  

 

You probably know this, but definitely don't take any of the fluoroquinolone family of antibiotics, such as Cipro. The fluoroquinolones can cause major problems, especially when you're taking a  benzo, as they occupy the same receptor sites as benzos and displace them, throwing you into withdrawal.

 

Fluoroquinolone antibiotics  

 

For more on antibiotics during withdrawal, please see:

 

Cipro, Levaquin, Azithromycin (Z-Pack), and other antibiotics

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/11/01/fluoroquinolone-antibiotic-side-effects.aspx

 

[Altostrata]

How much of each drug are you taking now? Please update your signature.

 

You're taking 1mg Celexa? You do not have to go off it first. You can lower lorazepam at least to a point where you're not getting adverse effects from it.

 

However, you need to get your UTI treated before you do anything else. You may be getting an adverse reaction to an antibiotic. You'll have to discuss this and the alternative antibiotics with your doctors. Nobody here knows the right antibiotic for you. (The quinolones, such as Cipro, have a bad reputation.) We cannot provide general medical advice, gynecological advice, or urological advice.

[HopeForTomorrow]

37 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Alto might know better than I.  If you've done okay before on other antibiotics but not on this one, I'd be inclined to call the doctor for a different antibiotic.  

 

You probably know this, but definitely don't take any of the fluoroquinolone family of antibiotics, such as Cipro. The fluoroquinolone can cause major problems, especially when you're taking a  benzo, as they occupy the same receptor sites as benzos and displace them, throwing you into withdrawal.

 

Fluoroquinolone antibiotics  

 

For more on antibiotics during withdrawal, please see:

 

Cipro, Levaquin, Azithromycin (Z-Pack), and other antibiotics

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/11/01/fluoroquinolone-antibiotic-side-effects.aspx

 

That’s good to know that I’m not crazy. Were you taking it for a UTI? Did you do well with amoxicillin or something similar? My doctor will do what I ask. She believes me, thank God. 
 

Yes, absolutely no fluoroquinolones!

[HopeForTomorrow]

8 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

How much of each drug are you taking now? Please update your signature.

 

You're taking 1mg Celexa? You do not have to go off it first. You can lower lorazepam at least to a point where you're not getting adverse effects from it.

1mg Celexa liquid 9:30am

.219mg Lorazepam (.073 3 times a day) compound olive oil liquid 5:30am, 1:30pm, 9:30pm

5mg Propranolol 8pm

30mg Dexilant PPI 10am

 

Vitamin C 500mg 7pm

 

It’s under current meds but the spacing is terrible. I couldn’t fit everything - maybe too detailed. 
 

I didn’t join at the time but I decided to reinstate once I saw this site. I was in bad withdrawals/sick. Worst was the PGAD which calmed pretty quickly after reinstating. This site was and is a God send. Anxiety and physical symptoms were bad but who knows if it was Ativan adverse effects, withdrawal, etc.

 

I did stabilize. In the beginning I was super tired all the time. I made big cuts to lorazepam which helped some but I hit a wall in January on it. The pills were tiny and hard to weigh and I wasn’t able to do anymore big cuts. Tried to switch to liquid compound 3 times. 2 times I failed then the 3rd, I updosed a tad and stabilized. 
 

After switching to liquid, I felt stable but each .001mg cut is debilitating over the last month or so. Could be I didn’t wait long enough after switch to liquid. Could be from fighting infection I was unaware of, not sure. I’m DEFINITELY going to get it treated and stabilize before making any changes. 

 

35 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

However, you need to get your UTI treated before you do anything else. You may be getting an adverse reaction to an antibiotic. You'll have to discuss this and the alternative antibiotics with your doctors. Nobody here knows the right antibiotic for you. (The quinolones, such as Cipro, have a bad reputation.) We cannot provide general medical advice, gynecological advice, or urological advice.

 
Sorry about that, I know better! I have emailed my doctor to switch antibiotics. Hopefully that helps!

 

Thank you both for all of your help here!

[Altostrata]

You're welcome. If I were you, I'd hold on those drugs until after your UTI is resolved.

[HopeForTomorrow]

14 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

You're welcome. If I were you, I'd hold on those drugs until after your UTI is resolved.

Thank you! I most definitely will and I will keep you all posted. 
 

Praying for healing and stability. 
 

Have a great week!

[Gridley]

15 hours ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

Were you taking it for a UTI? Did you do well with amoxicillin or something similar? My doctor will do what I ask. She believes me, thank God. 

It's been a while and I don't remember what I was taking an antibiotic for.  It wasn't a UTI.  If I recall correctly, I've done well with amoxicillin or something similar.

[HopeForTomorrow]

Hey friends -

 

Just an update. That one dose of antibiotic has sent me so far off of stability. Severe burning, feeling like little seizures or currents in my brain (not brain zaps, been there, done that), insomnia; no appetite/stomach upset, anxiety/inner restlessness, depression/hopelessness. 

 

I am going to hold here until this all lets up then regroup. Period is also coming soon so I’m sure it’s all exacerbated.
 

If you’re the praying kind, please say a prayer for stability/healing from this setback. 
 

Thank you so much. 
Stay well everyone, we’ll all heal!

[HopeForTomorrow]

Hey guys!

 

Looking for a little advice. My “baseline” since the UTI and med reaction has not been great and nowhere near as predictable as prior to it. 
 

I have not cut Lorazepam since 5/17. I have been holding and it’s very much up and down. A “goodish” day here and there but mostly struggling to keep my head above water. 
 

At this point and from your experience, is it beneficial to hold or am I prolonging the suffering?

 

Current symptoms: nausea/stomach upset, some anxiety, fear! (when I used to be stable, this was manageable), trouble sleeping, fatigue and malaise - hard to do anything! some depression. bouts of anger/irritability and anhedonia.
 

I have been trying to listen to my body and follow my gut in this process but unsure what is best at this point.

 

I feel like I’ve hit a wall with the numerous changes trying to get to liquid (ironic since I was trying to crossover to compound liquid to help make withdrawal easier but haven’t been able to hardly cut at all since!)

 

Any suggestions @Altostrataor @Gridley
 

I am feeling discouraged. If holding for longer will stabilize me and make future cuts easier, I am 100% willing to do that. Just trying to figure out what is best to be functional yet still come off it all.

 

Thank you so much. 

[Altostrata]

Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

[HopeForTomorrow]

Current bothering symptoms - extreme fatigue/malaise, tired/sleepy, trouble sleeping, stomach issues, anhedonia and irritability. 
 

So backtracking here. In the beginning with the lorazepam schedule, I was so sleepy. I was able to make bigger cuts (see history) without too much issue until January when I hit .201mg. Once I hit .201mg, I hit a wall. I could not make another cut like I was doing. Also, the pill was getting crumbled and hard to weigh. I attempted to do the liquid myself, huge fail. I found a compound pharmacy thinking the liquid compound would be easier to taper. First liquid, mental symptoms not bad at all. I was so excited. A little sleepier BUT after 3 days the almond oil (magnesium) made my PGAD flare bad. Went back to pills. Tried another liquid compound with olive oil, bad symptoms immediately. Called pharmacy, they used a different manufacturer than the first liquid because they were out of powder - they crushed pills that weren’t the same manufacturer as the pills I was previously on. I went back to pills. They said they could do another compound with the same powder lorazepam that they used in the first compound with olive oil. I tried one dose, bad symptoms so updosed my 3 doses and was able to transition fully. Note - this powder lorazepam is what was in the 1st compound liquid with almond oil - NOT the same manufacturer as the pills if that matters. 

 

I felt stable for a week 4/13-4/19 after transition to liquid. I would rate it a 7 in symptoms. If I ate bad during the transition to liquid (sugar, especially) it would cause a wave with insomnia/mental symptoms but felt pretty stable 4/13-4/19. I was sleeping 8-9 hours a night. I cut .001mg 4/20 and had bad withdrawal symptoms within hours of cut. Looking back, I maybe should have held on this liquid compound a lot longer before cutting?

 

Ever since hitting the wall at .201mg pill, I feel withdrawal symptoms within 4 hours of a cut. It is insane and I’m stumped. The only thing I can think is I introduced foods last week I haven’t ate in a couple months - ranch dressing, ketchup, chicken tenders, potato salad. I know I’m food sensitive but could it really cause such a bad wave? Maybe. I’m back to eating clean - not worth it eating that stuff. 

 

Please also note- I got another refill a couple weeks ago because my current compound expires 7/1. I took one dose of it a couple weeks ago and had withdrawal symptoms within several hours. I don’t know if it’s coincidence but I’m going to have to switch to that one this week which worries me when I’m already in this bad wave. 

 

6/27

8:15pm-9:30pm

Symptoms rating- 5

Jolts of fear + anhedonia (brain feeling so ill - worst symptoms - hard to push through this one), mixed with some intrusive thoughts, nausea, fatigue/malaise/sleepiness, not much physical anxiety, more mental anxiety

 

9:00pm - Vitamin C 500mg and Propranolol 5mg

9:30pm - Lorazepam .073mg

 

9:45pm- sleepier. 

Symptoms rating - 6 

Mask on, ear plugs in, dosed off

 

10:30pm - 

Symptoms rating 5 - awakened by irritability. If I grab phone or read go distract, I’m sleepy and dozing off. If I turn over and try to sleep, irritability/insomnia strikes. I also feel my heart is pounding. 

 

11:15pm - melatonin .3mg

11:30pm-3:30pm - sleep

 

2:30am-4:30am

Symptoms rating 4 - wake up with same irritable feeling, heart pounding. Still sleepy though. If I distract by reading, irritability/inner restlessness not as bad. When I try to sleep, it’s back.

 

4:30am-5:30am - sleep

 

5:30am - Lorazepam .073mg

 

5:30am-6:30am - sleep

 

6:30am - symptoms rating 6 - nausea/stomach upset, malaise/fatigue

 

7:30am - 8:30am - sleep

 

8:30am - symptoms rating 5 - nausea, feel like nausea is making me anxious/depressed if that makes sense?

 

9:30am - gluten free toast

Probiotic

Dexilant 30mg

Citalapram 1mg

 

10:00am - symptoms rating 5 - nausea, feel like nausea is making me anxious/depressed if that makes sense?

Desperate - took 1.25mg promethazine. It calmed down nausea and anxiety - makes me sleepy though. Hate taking it.

 

12:30pm - symptoms rating 6 - nausea calmed down - random waves of fear/anxiety. Fatigue/malaise

 

1:30pm - ate grilled chicken breast and broccoli - lorazepam .073mg

 

2:30pm - symptoms rating still 6

Had diarrhea. nausea not too bad. Random waves of fear/anxiety and fatigue/malaise. Fear of withdrawal and these symptoms which doesn’t happen too much when stable.

 

4:30pm-5:30pm - symptoms rating still 6. a little out of it - probably from promethazine but felt this overall unwell feeling yesterday. Fear/anxiety, anhedonia, irritability. 

 

6:30pm - baked chicken and black eyed peas

 

6:30pm-8:30pm Symptoms rating about a 5.5 - nausea back just not as intense. Fatigue/malaise and fear

 

9:30pm - Lorazepam .073mg

 

10:30pm-4:45am - sleep

 

4:45am-5:30am - symptoms rating 6 - some nausea/irritability

 

5:30am-7:45am - sleep

 

7:45am-10am - symptoms rating 7 - some nausea/fatigue, little anxiety

 

9:30am - gluten free toast

Citalapram 1mg

Probiotic and Dexilant

 

10am-1:30pm - symptoms rating 6 - nausea subsided but extreme fatigue/sleepiness and irritability/anhedonia with some anxiety 

 

1:30pm - Lorazepam .073mg

 

2:00pm-4:00pm - symptoms rating 6-7

so fatigued/sleepy, irritable/angry, anhedonia

 

 

The fatigue/sleepiness is brutal. I hate complaining about it because physical anxiety/PGAD are way worse to cope with. I guess I’m just trying to get to the bottom of new symptoms when I’ve been holding at .219mg for over a month. It’s hard to distract and push through when it’s hard to function from crushing fatigue. 
 

Any suggestions? Thank you for your help and experience @Altostrata

[HopeForTomorrow]

Hey guys -

 

I’m really struggling. I don’t know whether to white knuckle and hold where I’m at or do something else?

 

My insomnia is really getting the best of me. If I don’t take promethazine in the middle of the day or melatonin at night, I don’t sleep at all. I have always gauged my withdrawal symptoms on sleep.

 

This happened to me in the beginning of withdrawal and then with a couple of cuts but I haven’t made any cuts in over a month and this wave is brutal. I am praying it’s a wave and not my new normal because I’m having a hard time coping.
 

I was hoping to stabilize before switching to my new refill but I have to switch tomorrow. I’m just hoping it doesn’t get worse. 
 

is this what “tolerance” is? And what steps do I take?

Really trying to stay calm. Ignoring the panic and fear thoughts and really trying to deflect those but finding it much harder feeling this sick. 
 

Thank you for your help guys. 

[Altostrata]

@HopeForTomorrow what is your usual lorazepam schedule? Are you sort of taking it as needed?

 

Why do you take citalopram and Dexilant together?

 

Alert to @Frogie, Hope may need some help scheduling lorazepam.

 

[HopeForTomorrow]

I usually take the dexilant an hour before Celexa. I’ll go back to taking dexilant at 8:30am and Celexa at 9:30am
 

I take lorazepam:

5:30am -.073mg

1:30pm - .073mg

9:30pm - .073mg

 

So I have a little bit of a mess. I called the pharmacy and my new refill is the same lorazepam but a different formula that’s not PCCA stability tested and they didn’t tell me. 
 

I called another pharmacy and they said there’s no way to get an oil based compound stable and consistent so they think that’s my problem. They could either do a compound that’s PCCA stability tested that had like 5 ingredients (alcohol, sorbitol, propylene glycol, flavor + lorazepam - .1mg/1ml) or I could do the standard manufacturer liquid of 2mg/1ml I would just have to dilute with water at home. 

 

If I did the 2mg/1ml and mixed with water - is that safe/stable? How would I do that and come up with a taper plan?

 

I tried the water titration at one point myself and that was a complete fail. 
 

If this doesn’t work, I think I’ll have to go back to pills and dry cut which is so hard because the weight of one dose is .007grams and my scale barely registers it - it takes a long time. 
 

I have to find a solution and call my doctor today so any help is so appreciated at this point. 

[Frogie]

It would be fine if you could get the manufacture solution. Then we can set up a schedule and get you stable on this.

 

It’s all going to work out somehow, just take a deep breath and advise the dr what you would like. As long as you are reasonable they should be also.

 

Let me know what happens.

[ThatOneGirlStitch]

Hello hope, how are you holding up? 

[HopeForTomorrow]

Hi @Frogieand @Altostrata!

I hope you both are doing amazing! 
 

I like to stay away just so I don’t come across anything triggering. I came back because I’m having a new, very troubling symptom.

 

To catch you up-

I switched back to weighing pills in June since I could just not adjust to the liquid compound. I stabilized and have gradually cut to .18mg based on symptoms. 
 

About a month ago(at .21mg Ativan/day), I started getting eye dryness/pain/brain burning that eased off then would come back. 2 weeks ago,  I started having severe blinking and other new symptoms of anxiety which I hadn’t had much of. I had weighed my pills that Sunday and by Saturday, the blinking was worse so I thought “maybe I should weigh the rest of the pills to see if the scale made an error”. Well it seemed it did because most of them totaled me taking .18mg/day instead of .21mg. This is a big jump for me considering I was taking .01mg cuts and holding over a month until symptoms eased. I decided to stay at .18mg and ordered filler (so that I can add to the weight and weigh that way for more accuracy/less room for error)
 

I then got pink eye (probably from rubbing my eyes so much) and the blinking/TD went away for about a week.  I didn’t take anything for pink eye except homeopathic drops. 
 

Well, it came back with a vengeance + added insomnia this week for what seems to be no reason except - I weighed again Sunday (I usually weigh weekly) so I thought, maybe my scale errored again. I reweighed the pills yesterday and I got different weights again. This seemed to vary from .15mg-.18mg. 
 

So long story short, the pills are impossible to get accurate at this low weight so I have no idea what ups and downs I have done to my brain. 
 

The filler will finally be in tomorrow so I can start weighing that weigh but in the meantime, the TD, insomnia and anxiety is absolutely horrific. 
 

My question is -

1. Do you think this has anything to do with my 1mg of Celexa or do you think it’s all related to the inaccuracy in weighing benzos at the lower doses?

2. If it is the benzos, once I get accurate dosing tomorrow, do I hold here and wait until the TD calms down for a while to make any changes?

3. Is this TD a permanent thing? I made the mistake of googling what was wrong with my eyes/brain and of course it said “long term use of antipsychotics and other psychotropic drugs” so of course I’m worried from my SSRI use.

 

I’m using all of my tools to try to calm the anxiety but the TD symptoms and realization of what it is has me terribly worried. Of course, a lot of this is withdrawal lies so I try to keep that in mind and reassure myself I’m healing but wow, that’s hard to with this new symptom. 
 

Thank you both so much!

[Frogie]

Hi @HopeForTomorrow

 

I'm sorry you have been going through that. Did you get a new prescription or is it a new brand? That could be some of the problem if they changed manufacturers.

 

Sometimes you need to re-calibrate your scale also. That could be some of it also.

 

I wouldn't think rubbing your eyes or your dry eyes would cause pink eye, as pink eye is a virus. You usually have to be in contact with someone that has it. It's very contagious, you could have picked it up in a store or work even. 

 

I would re-weigh and re-calibrate your scale before you add fillers to it to get it to the correct weight.

 

How long have you been taking the .18 mg? If it's only been a few days you could go back up to the .21 mg. If it's been a week or so, I would keep it at the .18 mg and hold for a while until you feel stable again.

 

I hope you have a blessed New Year. 

[HopeForTomorrow]

4 hours ago, Frogie said:

'm sorry you have been going through that. Did you get a new prescription or is it a new brand? That could be some of the problem if they changed manufacturers.

Thank you so much Frogie. No new brand. 
 

4 hours ago, Frogie said:

Sometimes you need to re-calibrate your scale also. That could be some of it also.

I re-calibrate often but the pills are just so tiny - literally .006 grams a piece. They’re just so hard to get accurate and it fluctuates often. 
 

4 hours ago, Frogie said:

How long have you been taking the .18 mg? If it's only been a few days you could go back up to the .21 mg. If it's been a week or so, I would keep it at the .18 mg and hold for a while until you feel stable again.

 

I hope you have a blessed New Year. 

I am assuming around 3 weeks. I do think that’s I’ve messed up and went up to .21mg and back down some because the scale is just not accurate and fluctuates. I am making an assumption that I am at .18mg so that’s what I’m going to use as my start with the filler. 
 

I am praying so badly this stabilizes me. I have had the worst time getting off of this medicine. I am a strong fighter and can “fake it until I make it” through A LOT but I have had the worst symptoms from the list.

 

It makes me worry it could be permanent and I’ll never stabilize. I don’t voice that out loud because #goodvibes but wow, this is torture. 
 

Happy New Year Frogie!!!!

[Frogie]

You need to take 10 tablets and weigh them together to get an average weight of the tablets. Because each tablet is going to weigh different due to the fillers.

 

An example would be: 10 tablets weigh 10 grams (mg) so 1 tablet would weigh 1 gram (mg). Then you crush 10 or so tablets at a time and weigh and measure from there. Does that make sense?

 

This link should help:

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

If you think you have gone back to the .21 mg in the last few days, then stick with that. Just please don't go up and down with the dosage as that just messes up your central nervous system badly.

 

Please let me know if I can help any further.