HopeForTomorrow: SSRI and benzo withdrawal

January 3, 2022

@Altostrata

@Frogie

One more quick question and I’ll leave you alone!

I wanted to ask - Is there any chance this TD is from the Celexa 1mg?

or do you think this is all benzo withdrawal?

I was thinking I was stable on the Celexa since PGAD symptoms are controlled but now starting to question it.

Thank you so much!

January 3, 2022

Did these symptoms start after you think you messed up the benzo? If they did, I would say it is the benzo.

If not, you haven't tapered the Celexa since July 2020? You might drop it even 2% or so and see if that helps.

I would tend to believe it was the benzo though.

January 3, 2022

1 hour ago, Frogie said:

Did these symptoms start after you think you messed up the benzo? If they did, I would say it is the benzo.

If not, you haven't tapered the Celexa since July 2020? You might drop it even 2% or so and see if that helps.

I would tend to believe it was the benzo though.

I have not touched the Celexa 1mg since I reinstated July 2020.

These symptoms started after cutting and messing with the benzo. If I don’t stabilize on this new weighing method with filler, I may try to cut Celexa. I’m not sure how I’m going to cut Celexa in small increments like 2% though.

My dose is 1mg but I have the solution that is 1mg/.5ml. So I take .5ml and the lines go up by 2s on my syringe. So the next dose down would be .48ml/.96mg.

So a 4% cut? Or I could try to go between the lines and cut by 2%.

This is if I can’t stabilize from this benzo. Right now, I’m in very bad shape so hoping and praying the more accurate dosing will help.

I hope nobody reads this and is discouraged though. Although I cannot handle talking to people or messaging people (I try to stay away and be as close to normal life and exposure as possible), I still want to encourage right now. There have been moments of stability for me and we’re all going to heal from this no matter how hard. Every single moment has brought me closer to Jesus and built an endurance and strength that I will use forever. Is it fair? Absolutely not. Will I fight tooth and nail to bring awareness and justice once I get through this? Absolutely. But if you’re reading this, do not be discouraged, we will all heal and be fighters and I can’t wait for our testimonies and success stories!

January 3, 2022

2 hours ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

I wanted to ask - Is there any chance this TD is from the Celexa 1mg?

Are you talking about blinking from your pink eye infection??

January 3, 2022

8 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Are you talking about blinking from your pink eye infection??

No - I’m sorry. I confused pink eye with all of this. So it started a couple weeks ago when I think I messed up my benzo dosage due to the scale not reading accurately. I’m extremely sensitive and have only been able to do 4% cuts every 5-6 weeks. I think I made around a 14-16% cut and still not sure if weights are accurate but I’m doing the best I can until the filler gets here.

When I realized the weighing error, I thought I would just try to stabilize at .20mg/day (I was previously at .21mg before the weighing error that made my dose anywhere from .18mg-.2mg/day). I took 2 of the doses to get me to .20mg and it was too much medicine, I had akathisia bad. So the next day, I settled back down to .18mg/day guessing that that’s where I was when I made the accidental cut. I got pink eye the next day and the brain burning/movements and blinking eyes went away for a week that week. I only had pink eye for 2 days.

I weighed again the following Sunday and I got worse again throughout the week and the blinking/brain burning/movements came back but worse. So it made me think I made another error in weighing OR the scale is just not accurate and my dosing is fluctuating within .01mg-.03mg.

Now, it’s constant blinking and eye rolling to the left - probably every 20-30 seconds. Brain burning and eye pain/strain from all of the twitching and blinking. I can’t describe it better than this but it’s torturous. Also added insomnia.

I just hadn’t heard of it happening with benzos (but I also try not to read into too much) so I wasn’t sure if it was benzo withdrawal or something with the Celexa.

I am trying to accurately dose .06mg, 3 times a day. Each pill weighs .006grams and it fluctuates a lot. I’m doing the very best I can until the filler gets here (it was supposed to be today but it’s delayed).

I was driving and working and fighting through other symptoms easily 3 weeks ago, even 2 weeks ago with pink eye and even after but now I’m bedridden and trying to figure out what I’ve done.

January 4, 2022

Doubtful it's the 1mg Celexa. How often are you taking promethazine? It's an old antipsychotic and can cause dyskinesia.

Zhang, Ruili BSca,b; Lai, Jianbo MMa,b,c; Huang, Jinwen BSca,b,∗ Acute onset of orofacial dystonia from promethazine treatment, Medicine: October 2019 - Volume 98 - Issue 43 - p e17675
doi: 10.1097/MD.0000000000017675 full text here

Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardive_dyskinesia

Patients need to educate themselves about potential adverse effects of every drug they take. Drugs.com is a good source.

Irregular benzodiazepine dosing might also have caused the eye movement. What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages? Is the movement symptom worse at any particular times of day?

January 4, 2022

15 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Doubtful it's the 1mg Celexa. How often are you taking promethazine? It's an old antipsychotic and can cause dyskinesia.

The last time I took this was December 3rd. I did not know this but will never take it again! I took probably 2mg. Do you think that caused this? If so, is it permanent? Symptoms first arose the week of December 12th.

19 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Irregular benzodiazepine dosing might also have caused the eye movement. What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages? Is the movement symptom worse at any particular times of day?

5:30am - Lorazepam .06mg

8:30am - Dexilant 30mg and probiotic

9:30am - Celexa 1mg

1:30pm - Lorazepam .06mg

9:30pm - Lorazepam .06mg

i would say I guess it’s a little better in the morning hours because I’ve rested and my eyes were closed all night. It gets worse throughout the day. Intense physical/chemical anxiety is also around when it’s at its worst. Haven’t had that in a long time.

January 4, 2022

Why are you taking lorazepam on that schedule? Att @Frogie

Please put ALL your drugs in this Interactions Checker and post the report or a link to it in this topic.

Daily notes, 24 hours of notes at a time, would be helpful. Please use this simple list format

January 4, 2022

19 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Why are you taking lorazepam on that schedule? Att @Frogie

I was told since lorazepam is a short acting benzo, it’s best to space it out 8 hours apart to avoid tolerance withdrawal. So I did that early on as soon as I realized I was dependent.

I am now concerned about the very sporadic use of promethazine I was using. I would say I maybe used it once every 2 months. It was my rescue - if I was working or our out and extreme panic or nausea hit, it was my last resort. Do you believe that could cause TD or are you thinking this is more of a benzo issue that will subside once stable?

20 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Please put ALL your drugs in this Interactions Checker and post the report or a link to it in this topic.

Moderate

LORazepam citalopram

Applies to: lorazepam, Celexa (citalopram)

Using LORazepam together with citaloprammay increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

There is also this one for promethazine + citalapram which I am not taking promethazine anymore but it was good to see:

Major

promethazine citalopram

Applies to: Phenergan (promethazine), Celexa (citalopram)

Using citalopram together with promethazinecan increase the risk of an irregular heart rhythm that may be serious and potentially life-threatening, although it is a relatively rare side effect. You may be more susceptible if you have a heart condition called congenital long QT syndrome, other cardiac diseases, conduction abnormalities, or electrolyte disturbances (for example, magnesium or potassium loss due to severe or prolonged diarrhea or vomiting). Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may already be aware of the risks, but has determined that this is the best course of treatment for you and has taken appropriate precautions and is monitoring you closely for any potential complications. You should seek immediate medical attention if you develop sudden dizziness, lightheadedness, fainting, shortness of breath, or heart palpitationsduring treatment with these medications, whether together or alone. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

27 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Daily notes, 24 hours of notes at a time, would be helpful. Please use this simple list format

I have been doing notes trying to figure out some sort of pattern here or reason but I’m struggling.

DATE: 01/02/2022

Very hard time falling asleep night before - finally fell asleep at around 4am and slept until 5:30am

5:30am - .06mg Lorazepam

5:45am-8:30am - sleep

woke up feeling draggy, exhausted, eyes sore from so much blinking and muscle strain day before

8:30am - Dexilant 30mg and Probiotic

9:30am - Citalapram 1mg liquid

Tried to distract - cleaned around the house

12:00pm - rested on the couch. Blinking/dyskinesia/brain burning getting worse each hour and eye soreness. Physical/chemical anxiety getting worse. Extremely emotional because the symptoms so bad. Feel physically terrible with fatigue and overall malaise, as well.

1:30pm - Lorazepam .06mg

2:30pm - small walk, fresh air

4:00pm - blinking/dyskinesia/brain burning feeling worse. Emotional again because I’m in torture with this symptom it feels like. Chemical/physical anxiety ramped as it gets worse, as well.
8:30pm - by this time, I’m extremely emotional, eye soreness/pain, brain burning/pain, muscle soreness around neck/back of head and shoulders, extreme physical anxiety where im just miserable, honestly

9:30pm - Lorazepam .06mg and reading a book. Insomnia big time - did not fall asleep until 3am

I tried to switch to a liquid oil based compound 3 times and failed. After the 3rd time, pharmacist decided to tell me that the oil is not soluble so no matter how much you shake it, you could be getting inaccurate doses. I thought, well that’s why I’m in windows and waves. I decided to switch back to pills and stabilize and just dry cut. I stabilized on pills at .225mg and cut .001mg every 4-6 weeks. I would have withdrawal insomnia for a day the first week, the second week a wave of symptoms then they would gradually get better until I get as ready to cut again. I never dealt with insomnia except for one night after a cut. I also haven’t felt the physical anxiety in a long time. Mental, yes but I work through that and distract.

This new symptoms of dyskinesia (most troublesome) came what seems like out of nowhere paired with the insomnia, physical anxiety/fear/terror, brain burning and severe headaches and pain/malaise.

January 4, 2022

Hi @HopeForTomorrow

You are correct. Lorazepam lasts about 6 to 8 hours in your system. Just curious, why at 5:30 am? Is that when you get up in the morning?

If you need to take it around 9 pm, then I would would work backwards on the times. So you would take it at 9am, 1 pm and 9 pm. That would be every 6 hours. Unless you feel you need it first thing in the morning. I took my Xanax at 8 am, 2 pm, and 8 pm, and that was a pretty good schedule because then I could relax a little before bed.

You want to take it 1-2 hours after your Celexa, which you are doing already.

If you do decide to change the schedule, do it by taking the dose 1 hour before/after every day/night to move it up or down.'

Hope that helped.

January 4, 2022

Did you include Dexilant and any other drugs in your Drug Interaction Report?

January 4, 2022

13 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Did you include Dexilant and any other drugs in your Drug Interaction Report?

I forgot propranolol! I also forgot it in my schedule above. I take 5mg Propranolol at 8:00pm, .06mg Lorazepam at 9:30pm and 500mg Vitamin C at 10pm. I have not had an insomnia issue since this latest issue.

There is no issue with Dexilant interactions. Here is the correct one. I removed Promethazine since I haven't taken it and will not take it again.

Moderate

LORazepam citalopram

Applies to: lorazepam, Celexa (citalopram)

MONITOR: Central nervous system- and/or respiratory-depressant effects may be additively or synergistically increased in patients taking multiple drugs that cause these effects, especially in elderly or debilitated patients. Sedation and impairment of attention, judgment, thinking, and psychomotor skills may increase.

MANAGEMENT: During concomitant use of these drugs, patients should be monitored for potentially excessive or prolonged CNS and respiratory depression. Cautious dosage titration may be required, particularly at treatment initiation. Ambulatory patients should be counseled to avoid hazardous activities requiring mental alertness and motor coordination until they know how these agents affect them, and to notify their physician if they experience excessive or prolonged CNS effects that interfere with their normal activities.

propranolol LORazepam

Applies to: propranolol, lorazepam

The pharmacologic effects of some benzodiazepines may be increased by some beta-blockers. Propranolol and metoprolol may inhibit the hepatic metabolism of diazepam and other mechanisms may also be involved. Most changes have been clinically insignificant; however, increased reaction times and/or decreased kinetic visual acuity have been reported with some combinations. Observation for altered benzodiazepine effects is recommended if these drugs must be used together. Patients should be warned against driving or operating hazardous machinery.

January 4, 2022

7 hours ago, Frogie said:

Just curious, why at 5:30 am? Is that when you get up in the morning?

In the beginning, I would have morning cortisol urges so 5:30 was a good time to take it. When I'm in a wave, I seem to have the same things so it has worked. I thought they had to be dosed exactly 8 hours apart? Do I need to change my scheduling?

Just an update for you both - I got the filler in so now I'm weighing more accurately at .06mg 3 times a day. 18mg/day.

Should I hold here for a bit until this dyskinesia (HOPEFULLY) subsides?

January 4, 2022

20 hours ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

Now, it’s constant blinking and eye rolling to the left - probably every 20-30 seconds. Brain burning and eye pain/strain from all of the twitching and blinking. I can’t describe it better than this but it’s torturous. Also added insomnia.

How far back do the odd eye movements go? Did you get them intermittently, say, a couple of years ago?

It would be unusual for dyskinesia to be caused by the low amounts of psychiatric drugs you've taken in the last year. Of all of them, promethazine would be the most prominent suspect, but it appears you took it only occasionally. Some PPIs have been implicated in causing dyskinesia, but very few reports for Dexilant. If you do not have a serious medical need for Dexilant, you might gradually decrease it to see if the eye movement changes.

Otherwise, you've been on and off psychiatric drugs for at least 9 years. Could be the benzo has been masking this all along, and reducing it has unmasked it.

January 4, 2022

4 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

How far back do the odd eye movements go? Did you get them intermittently, say, a couple of years ago?

I blink both eyes but the left eye kind of just looks to the top left. I have never had anything remotely similar to this symptom. I would say I started getting dry eyes around September of this year and then it slowly arose. Went away for a week then came back.

7 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

It would be unusual for dyskinesia to be caused by the low amounts of psychiatric drugs you've taken in the last year. Of all of them, promethazine would be the most prominent suspect, but it appears you took it only occasionally. Some PPIs have been implicated in causing dyskinesia, but very few reports for Dexilant. If you do not have a serious medical need for Dexilant, you might gradually decrease it to see if the eye movement changes.

Otherwise, you've been on and off psychiatric drugs for at least 9 years. Could be the benzo has been masking this all along, and reducing it has unmasked it.

That's what I was thinking too but even then, I only took such a low, sporadic dose of promethazine. Even when I had the adverse reaction to Celexa 30mg, I had akathisia but not this. I reinstated 1mg and still nothing even remotely similar. Then came the benzo. Do you think this is permanent or healing comes as I go down?

With the PPI (Dexilant) - I have a kidney disease that causes acid reflux and rubs my throat raw. I do want to try and come off of it but don't want it to hurt benzo or AD withdrawal.

I have had such a hard time coming off of this drug. I'll be stable for a couple days to a week and then tank. It is SO up and down. I have never felt anywhere near close to 100% but functional - working (since stabilizing on Celexa in November), doing things, getting out of the house, fighting through symptoms. Now I am almost bedridden.

I got the filler (Microcrystalline) in today and did the weighing capsules with filler to weigh. I did everything by the book and took my 1:30pm dose of .06mg. At first I had a sense of calm - then I've had 2 waves of doom go over me (almost akathisia-ish), mild GI upset, floating head and depersonalization, chest tightness, shivering and weakness, some panic and almost the feeling of being on "too much" medicine like I was with the adverse reaction to Celexa. Maybe I was on a lower dose than I thought because of the weight differential. Am I having a reaction to the gelatin capsules or microcystalline filler or is this just a normal reaction when switching to a different way of dosing? Any suggestions?

I don't understand why it's such a nightmare for me with this benzo to stabilize on something that I can actually taper accurately. It's either my nervous system is so destabilized from the cold turkey a year and a half ago and reinstatement of Celexa or this benzo is wreaking havoc on my system. I am so beyond sensitive.

January 4, 2022

You may wish to reverse your most recent lorazepam decrease and hold on everything for a good while. You might also ask your doctor if there's a substitute for Dexilant.

January 4, 2022

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

You may wish to reverse your most recent lorazepam decrease and hold on everything for a good while. You might also ask your doctor if there's a substitute for Dexilant.

With this reaction to the filler, I am going to go back to weighing pills and hold.

I tried to go up to .2mg but had akathisia but ironically, 2 days later I got pink eye and the odd eye movement subsided for a week. Do you think I should still try to go up or do you think there's a possibility I'll stabilize here?

I will see about switching Dexilant or getting off of it. Psych meds could have been the reason for acid reflux anyway, who knows at this point.

I am hoping to hold and see a decrease in odd eye movements. If not, some stability and improvement but in the meantime -

I have a question that maybe you or @Frogie know from experience. Is there a form of liquid compound I can get for Lorazepam that's a solution with not a lot of ingredients (since I'm obviously extremely sensitive?)

Thanks so much!

January 4, 2022

@HopeForTomorrow

Liquid would be awesome if your insurance will pay for it. It makes it so much easier to taper.

January 5, 2022

17 hours ago, Frogie said:

@HopeForTomorrow

Liquid would be awesome if your insurance will pay for it. It makes it so much easier to taper.

Okay I may try that - I want to try and get stable here before a change because I'm in bad shape.

Thanks Frogie!

January 5, 2022

Yesterday afternoon at 1:30pm is when I tried a new method of dosing/weighing by adding fillers.

I had a reaction - weakness, impending doom, heavy chest, then visibly shook/trembled/shivered for an hour. Not sure what that was but obviously a reaction of some sorts. My physical anxiety also got extremely bad paired with the eye movements and I had to take a 1/2 of a benadryl. I rarely go to benadryl but it just got so bad. The benadryl really calmed my anxiety down a lot and my eye movements were there but less intense. I decided not to do filler for my evening dose and just go back to weighing as I was and just try my best to ensure the weight is correct.

Date 1/4

5:30am - .06mg Lorazepam PILL

5:45am-8:30am - sleep

woke up feeling draggy, exhausted, eyes sore from so much blinking and muscle strain day before

eye movements - 3/10

8:30am - Dexilant 30mg and Probiotic

9:30am - Citalapram 1mg liquid

10:00am - filler arrived so I started new method of weighing pills.

12:00pm - Blinking/dyskinesia/brain burning getting worse each hour and eye soreness. Physical/chemical anxiety getting worse. Extremely emotional because the symptoms so bad. Feel physically terrible with fatigue and overall malaise, as well.

1:30pm - Lorazepam .06mg WITH FILLER

2:30pm - Reaction starts - couldn't finish sentences, overwhelming sense of doom, heart racing, got upstairs, out of breath, lay in bed shivering for an hour.

4:00pm - blinking/dyskinesia/brain burning feeling worse. Emotional again because I’m in torture with this symptom it feels like. Chemical/physical anxiety ramped, as well. Still reacting to filler pill but calming down some from the reaction.
7:30pm - by this time, I’m extremely emotional, eye soreness/pain, brain burning/pain, muscle soreness around neck/back of head and shoulders, extreme physical anxiety where I'm just miserable, honestly - eye movements very often - 9/10

7:30pm - took 1/2 benadryl

8:30pm - still feeling some residual affects of reaction but feeling more calm, positive, RELIEF, weak but my brain chilled out - eye movements 4/10 - laid down and read a book

9:00pm - Vitamin C and Propranalol

9:30pm - Lorazepam .06mg and reading a book.

10:15pm - fell asleep

11:45pm - woke up heart racing, cortisol surge (side note - over the last week since things have intensified, I either feel wired when I take my 9:30pm dose and can't sleep or I fall asleep and wake up a little bit later in a panic)

12:30pm-3:00 - in and out of sleep but awake until 5:30am

5:30am - Lorazepam .006mg PILL

6:00am-7:45am - sleep

Wake up feeling groggy - I'm guessing from Benadryl and destabilization from reaction to filler.

Still feeling this all morning - eye movements are still kind of calm - maybe 4/10 but my heart races when I walk, when I stand up I get light headed. Feel pretty bad, out of it but with anxiety too.

@Altostrata @Frogie

Alto - I'm just having a hard time figuring out what is happening. I haven't felt this destabilized since the beginning of all of this a year and a half ago. This new symptom of eye movements has really thrown me on the ground. I'm back to feeling hopeless in withdrawal, insomnia, physical anxiety/fear, panic, depression, no joy, depersonalization/derealization - I have not had this in a very, very long time. I was cutting but my symptoms were manageable, you know?

I was grocery shopping Monday, 12/27 - I worked, put together furniture for my son, cleaned house, put down decorations and now I'm bedridden since last Wednesday 12/29. Since then, the GI issues started, the eye movements came back, physical anxiety and insomnia here (I was getting 7 hours prior to last week). It's got me questioning everything so I'm trying to get sound advice from your knowledge and experience.

Here are my thoughts - can you weigh in?

1. Continue doing the pill weights at a dose of .18mg. Continue on 1mg Lexapro. Try to stabilize here while getting off Dexilant.

-If this goes okay and I stabilize and eye movements dissipate, do I consider a crossover to Valium? Or consider switching to liquid? I'm extremely sensitive. My nervous system is not liking any change, any medicine, etc. so I want to do this correctly. Side note - Lorazepam crumbs are so small - weights fluctuate a lot so I know I'm not going to be able to dry cut the entire way down.

2. If I do not stabilize and eye movements continue, do I consider the thought that the eye movements are from Lexapro? Maybe hold on benzo taper and switch the Lexapro? This worries me for further destabilization but I don't want to do any further damage to my eye movements if that's the cause.

I would feel a lot better if this eye movement symptom would dissipate. I feel like I can work through anything but this symptom has knocked me flat on my back and my brain feels so unstable. There is a integrative neurologist near me that does all natural things - chiropractic, therapies, etc. No medication - should I consider seeing them at this point?

Thank you both so much for your help. I do look at BenzoBuddies but they don't know/understand the horrors of antidepressants or polydrugging so I feel somewhat alone here except for you guys.

January 5, 2022

Would it help do you think if you went back up to .21 mg. It hasn't been that long and you could be having wd symptoms because you tapered so drastically?

January 5, 2022

36 minutes ago, Frogie said:

Would it help do you think if you went back up to .21 mg. It hasn't been that long and you could be having wd symptoms because you tapered so drastically?

I thought about that but hear me out -

-I was at .21mg January 2020

-I tried to dry cut to .18mg and updosed back to .21mg due to withdrawal symptoms

-I then tried a water mixture thinking that would be an easier taper - one dose, diarrhea and sickness - went back to pill

-I held and stabilized

-Tried to switch to almond oil liquid compound - caused PGAD

-Back to Pills

-Tried to switch to olive oil liquid compound - horrible sx's - realized they crushed up a new manufacturer dose

-Back to Pills

-Tried to switch to olive oil liquid compound with correct lorazepam - not good - updosed to .225mg and stabilized for a week

-I then cut .001mg every 4 weeks, I was so up and down, I could not stabilize. I called another compound pharmacy - they said with the oil based compound, it's not soluble so you could be getting a small amount some days, and bigger amount others. I shook it like crazy but this was enough to scare me back to pills.

-Stabilized on pills and felt better - cut 4% every 5-6 weeks, still had waves and windows but bearable - slept great(ish), no physical anxiety - cuts produced more physical symptoms like fatigue.

Something happened over the last couple of weeks. I don't know if the scale differences caused it or if this new pop up symptom of dyskinesia caused me to panic and my nervous system tanked but I feel very much in the thick of it.

Just an update - dyskinesia/brain burning, anxiety, severe brain fog are HIGH starting mid-afternoon to night time. Right now, debilitating.

I think I'm pretty accurate on my scale, it's honestly hard to tell. I have to scales to compare - one gives me .18mg which I think is correct because it's the one I've used from the beginning...but at this point being so messed up - do I consider trying liquid ativan solution or try to hold here?

I tried to go up on dose 12/27 to .2mg and had akathisia and insomnia. Went back down to .18mg and felt better for a week. Got pink eye, eye movements went away for a week.

And then now in crisis mode.

January 5, 2022

Since it's only been a few days since you tapered down (and didn't intend to), you could go back up to the .21 mg and see if that helps with the wd symptoms. But you'll have to hold for a few days to see if that will help or not.

I think all the up and down, liquid to pill form has really messed with your CNS.

In the meantime, keep the notes coming please.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Frogie

January 5, 2022

15 minutes ago, Frogie said:

Since it's only been a few days since you tapered down (and didn't intend to), you could go back up to the .21 mg and see if that helps with the wd symptoms. But you'll have to hold for a few days to see if that will help or not.

I think all the up and down, liquid to pill form has really messed with your CNS.

In the meantime, keep the notes coming please.

I agree - but I have no idea what to do to fix it to get out of this fight or flight mode. I can't take magnesium, it flares PGAD. Benadryl helps with eye movements and physical anxiety for 24 hours but causes brain fog and sluggishness the next day - possibly some rebound anxiety. And I would rather not have to take something to get out of this mode.

The last time I was this bad it was the beginning AD withdrawal and then benzo addition. I stabilized then on 1mg Celexa and .375mg Lorazepam and was able to live my life functionally (although hard).

I tried to go up on dose 12/27 (week after error) to .2mg and had akathisia and insomnia. Went back down to .18mg and felt better for a week. Got pink eye, eye movements went away for a week and a half. I thought that meant .18mg was better. This is why this week just doesn't make sense to me.

Today 1/5:

Wake up feeling groggy - I'm guessing from Benadryl and destabilization from reaction to filler.

Still feeling this all morning - eye movements are still kind of calm - maybe 4/10 but my heart races when I walk, when I stand up I get light headed. Feel pretty bad, out of it but with anxiety too. Bad brain Fog

8:30am - Dexilant 30mg and Probiotic

9:30am - Citalopram 1mg

10-1:30pm - Still just groggy - eye movements 4/10, anxiety okay, feeling more sluggish so anxiety under control - bad brain fog, obsessive thoughts about how to get out of this wave and why it's so bad

1:30pm - Lorazapam .06mg

2:00pm-Now - Eye movements 8/10, anxiety/brain burning bad, GI upset

Also - I have been able to eat really well (paleo diet and cooking my own food) since I stabilized last year on Citalopram and Lorazepam. Now I can barely eat this last week and sleep is back how it was then. Is this just my reality now the whole way down on Lorazepam?

January 5, 2022

You could try an increase of 19.5. That would be right in the middle and see if that might help.

Did you receive antibiotic ointment or antibiotic drops for the pink eye? That could be causing some of the side effects also.

I wouldn't take the Benadryl unless it's absolutely necessary.

January 5, 2022

7 minutes ago, Frogie said:

Did you receive antibiotic ointment or antibiotic drops for the pink eye? That could be causing some of the side effects also.

They prescribed it but I healed it with homeopathic drops and didn't need them.

8 minutes ago, Frogie said:

You could try an increase of 19.5. That would be right in the middle and see if that might help.

Do you think this dyskinesia + all other symptoms is benzo withdrawal? It's really worrying me - ugh it gets so bad. If the increase will take that away, I'll do it in a heartbeat! I may just up my evening dose from .06mg to .07mg. I can't really measure .001mg with the scale.

9 minutes ago, Frogie said:

I wouldn't take the Benadryl unless it's absolutely necessary.

I will only take it now for crisis - last night I was just desperate for calm and a little more sleep. Even though I still felt horrible - it was glorious for an hour or so not to have that chemical anxiety.

January 5, 2022

1 minute ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

They prescribed it but I healed it with homeopathic drops and didn't need them.

That's great you were able to heal with homeopathic drops, but even some homeopathic supplements can cause symptoms when you are taking these medications. What did you use?

3 minutes ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

If the increase will take that away, I'll do it in a heartbeat! I may just up my evening dose from .06mg to .07mg. I can't really measure .001mg with the scale.

The increase may help because you went up and down a few times in a short period of time. I would try just the evening dose like you said and see how you do for a few days. Keep notes. Otherwise, we may need to stated tapering you off a bit faster if that doesn't help. But I think your CNS is very sensitive from the changes in a just a few days.

5 minutes ago, HopeForTomorrow said:

I will only take it now for crisis - last night I was just desperate for calm and a little more sleep. Even though I still felt horrible - it was glorious for an hour or so not to have that chemical anxiety.

I totally understand all about sleep. You take what you can get. I still am like that. But just don't get used to the Benadryl. It can cause problems down the road. Not to scare you at all, I just don't want you to become dependent on it to sleep. Can you take melatonin? I tried it twice and had a horrible headache the next day, but I know a lot of members on here use it.

January 5, 2022

20 minutes ago, Frogie said:

That's great you were able to heal with homeopathic drops, but even some homeopathic supplements can cause symptoms when you are taking these medications. What did you use?

Well I had the eye thing a week before but it calmed down when I got pink eye. I did think it was weird that it was this left eye but thought it was caused from me rubbing on it and pulling at it when I had the twitching. Then came back way worse the week after. Started with diarrhea, nausea no appetite, then anxiety and it's just gotten worse. The eye drops I used were Similasan Pink Eye Relief. Ingredients: Belladonna 6X, Euphrasia Officinalis 6X, Hespar Sulphuris 12X containing .000002% alkaloids calculated as hyoscyamine, borate butter, silver sulfate, sodium nitrate.

Could any of those ingredients caused this?

January 5, 2022

I don't think anything in that should cause the problems you are having. I just wanted to make sure.

Try the little evening updose for a few days and let me know. Keep notes.

Otherwise we will start tapering you off a little faster. It's just not fun at all. I'm still having problems and my taper was 15 1/2 months, but off 3 mg a day.

January 5, 2022

4 minutes ago, Frogie said:

I don't think anything in that should cause the problems you are having. I just wanted to make sure.

Try the little evening updose for a few days and let me know. Keep notes.

Otherwise we will start tapering you off a little faster. It's just not fun at all. I'm still having problems and my taper was 15 1/2 months, but off 3 mg a day.

Freaking out a little bit - I just found this on Belladonna. I had the twitching the week before but nowhere near as bad as the week after the pink eye. Do you think this could have contributed? I know I'm extremely med sensitive but WOW. I just used it today because the eye doctor said "It's just like water" so I thought it was good for moisture.

The full title of this UK paper is "Three Poisonous Plants (Oenanthe, Cicuta and Anamirta) That Antagonise the Effect of γ-aminobutyric Acid in Human Brain".

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32539046/

Abstract

Although we are familiar with common British plants that are poisonous, such as Atropa belladonna (deadly nightshade) and Aconitum napellus (monkshood), the two most poisonous plants in the British Flora are Oenanthe crocata (dead man's fingers) and Cicuta virosa (cowbane). In recent years their poisons have been shown to be polyacetylenes (n-C2H2). The plants closely resemble two of the most common plants in the family Apiaceae (Umbelliferae), celery and parsley. Unwittingly, they are ingested by naive foragers and death occurs very rapidly. The third plant Anamirta derives from South-East Asia and contains a powerful convulsant, picrotoxin, which has been used from time immemorial to catch fish, and more recently to poison Birds of Paradise. All three poisons have been shown to block the γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA) system in the human brain that normally has a powerful inhibitory neuronal action. It has also been established that two groups of sedative drugs, barbiturates and benzodiazepines, exert their inhibitory action by stimulating the GABA system. These drugs are the treatments of choice for poisoning by the three vicious plants.

January 5, 2022

No, I think you're safe. You had pink eye. You're fine I think

Read this article that I found:

Why is My Eyelid Twitching? | UPMC HealthBeat

January 5, 2022

1 minute ago, Frogie said:

No, I think you're safe. You had pink eye. You're fine I think

Read this article that I found:

Why is My Eyelid Twitching? | UPMC HealthBeat

Well, it's definitely more severe than eye twitching. It's like blinking very hard like squinting or Tourette's looking and then my left eye spasms up. I'll stop doing the drops just in case but dang, I thought I had an answer to this god awful symptom.

January 5, 2022

It's normal for your eyes to twitch during withdrawal also. I wouldn't read too much into it.

January 6, 2022

48 minutes ago, Frogie said:

It's normal for your eyes to twitch during withdrawal also. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Thank you Frogie. Weird thing - when I did the drops, chemical anxiety calmed some, had GI distress and eye symptoms went down to 4/10.

Now I’m genuinely wondering if it either helped withdrawal symptoms, masked symptoms or caused a small dependency and I’m somewhat withdrawing from it.

I know it’s a smallish amount but with me being so sensitive, it’s a big thought. I was probably doing it every 2 hours with pink eye.

January 6, 2022

I could be coincidence, or that it really did a little something?

I know you are really sensitive to this stuff, so just watch the evening dose🙂

January 7, 2022

Hi @Altostrata & @Frogie,

I just wanted to update you. I ended up having a massive reaction the the eye drops.

Thursday morning, I woke up vomiting, my heart rate sky rocketed and blood pressure shot up, my oxygen lowered, I couldn’t lift my head. I can’t even explain the horror. My family called my doctor (I almost called an ambulance) and he told me to take a Benadryl and if symptoms didn't calm, go to the ER. After an hour on the Benadryl, the worst symptoms calmed. I am now trying to recover. I have severe migraine, weakness, some mental symptoms, involuntary eye movements are pretty bad and tinnitus which I haven’t had really. I am much better than I was yesterday but still recovering and praying this doesn’t set me back horribly. My doctor (I usually take what he says with a grain of salt) said since I’m so sensitive, I was basically slowly poisoning myself with those drops over the last 2 weeks and it just came to a head. It was very scary and I’m still scared of a huge setback. The belladonna was not good, I will never assume something is okay just because it’s not ingested orally or is homeopathic.

I am going to hold on these pills until I recover from this reaction which is hopefully soon.

My question is this - with the involuntary eye movements/dyskinesia, should my next steps be holding the benzo and withdrawing from Citalopram? I don’t want to be in 2 withdrawals (even though I guess I kind of am since CT and reinstatement of Citalopram in 2020)

Do we think the eye movements are Citalopram or Lorazepam withdrawal? Are the withdrawal symptoms I’m having Lorazepam withdrawal and Citalopram withdrawal was stopped with reinstatement? Do the symptoms of either differ?

The eye movements are extremely uncomfortable and if it’s Citalopram, I don’t want to do any further damage. My eye feels swollen, my eyes are dry and raw and the movements happen often - every 30 seconds sometimes and it’s hard to function.

Thank you so much!

HopeForTomorrow: SSRI and benzo withdrawal

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