☼ WhitePhoenix: tapering quetiapine

[WhitePhoenix]

Hi all,

 

I've been affected by depression since my teens. That also brought me sleep problems which I still have to this day. I started trying to fix this in 2006 with the help of a psychiatrist which was a wrong call since my body is, till now, addicted to psychiatric medication.

I've been successfully tapering this meds for about 5 years now, my main problem is tapering Quetiapine. The benzos, antidepressants, etc were easy to taper compared to this drug.

 

I was only on 5mg and doing well when I thought that I could start to do it on a quicker pace, since it was such a small dose. It appears that was a wrong move. After being almost 2 months with no medication whatsoever, I decided to reinstate since I was having problems with sleep that were affecting my general well being. 

I restarted at only 2mg but after a few days still with sleeping problems decided to up it to 5mg which is the dose I'm taking now.

 

I was a few days without sleeping problems but this week has been terrible again. There's also the problem that I have some things in life that are stressing me out which certainly doesn't help with this, though I think that's not the main problem. I think the main problem is that I should have tapered more slowly when I was at 5mg. 

 

Any tips on what I should be doing next? I guess it's probably better if I wait a good while to see if my brain stabilizes on this dose (5mg)? Or should I up the dose a bit again to see if I can sleep better? Or do you have any other tip?
The sleeping problems I'm having now are really affecting me. I'm also suffering a bit with depression issues again (sleeping problems are just making it worth).

 

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Gridley

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, WhitePhoenix.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.  Please include the doses, dates and rate of your taper and the dates of your reinstatement of 2mg and of 5mg.  Use this link:

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

I would not increase the Quetiapine any further. Your system is destabilized from your fast taper, and too high a reinstatement can overwhelm your system and destabilize you further.  I will be better able to help if you let me know when you increased from 2mg reinstatement to 5mg.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that are single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can complete your drug signature, answer my question, ask your own questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WhitePhoenix]

Hi Gridley,

 

Thank you very much for your tips!

 

Yeah that's what I thought about increasing the dose, that it would be best not to since it can make things worse by further destabilizing my nervous system. 

 

I'm already taking a few supplements:

• Magnesium 
• L-Tryptophan
• Melatonin 1mg before bed time
• Some supplements for gut health like Kyo Dophilus probiotics and drinking Kefir
• Vitamin D

Thanks for the suggestion on Omega3 supplements, I'll try to add that too.

I'm thinking I might also increase the melatonin dose (I was once on 3mg). Though the melatonin supplement I have now has other stuff in it so I'm going to buy one that only has melatonin (like you say better to buy something that only has the supplement itself).

 

Thanks again,

 

 

[Gridley]

37 minutes ago, WhitePhoenix said:

I'm thinking I might also increase the melatonin dose (I was once on 3mg). Though the melatonin supplement I have now has other stuff in it so I'm going to buy one that only has melatonin (like you say better to buy something that only has the supplement itself).

 

Melatonin can have a paradoxical effect (keep you awake) if you take too high a dose.  This is especially so for people in withdrawal.

I'd be wary of bumping up to 3mg.

 

39 minutes ago, WhitePhoenix said:

Yeah that's what I thought about increasing the dose, that it would be best not to since it can make things worse by further destabilizing my nervous system. 

 

Please respond to my question in my previous post.  My recommendation of whether to stay where you are or to decrease back to 2mg depends on your answer.  Here's what I asked:

 

56 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 I will be better able to help if you let me know when you increased from 2mg reinstatement to 5mg.

 

[WhitePhoenix]

I responded by changing the signature. The history is all there. Can you see my signature?

[WhitePhoenix]

Hi all,

 

So an update on my taper.

 

I'm now back at almost quitting all psych meds. Only Quetiapine left and I'm only taking 2mg of it which might be the same as taking nothing but just to be safe I'm going super slow.

I'm thinking of totally quitting Quetiapine in a few weeks or about 1 month from now. That is if I'm relatively OK with my sleep and all.

 

Up until about 1 or 1 and a half year ago things were going good. Tapering was going well, some side effects but mostly my life and well being was going steadily upwards. 

Things started to go downhill 1 / 1,5 years ago. I'm not totally sure that it's because of the tapper but I would say I'm about 70% inclined to think that is the case. About 1 year ago I started to experience feelings of anguish, sadness and anxiety from time to time that didn't seem to make much sense.

I still experience them some days. Some days or during some parts of the day it's like I have a complete lack of positive emotions and it doesn't seem like there's really absolutely something in my day do day life that would justify it. Some times it really feels like my brain is unbalanced and not functioning well when it comes to the emotional side.

Seems like the very last tappers (when the dose is small) are the worst.

 

So I was wondering if anyone has experienced something like this when getting to the very end of the tapper or when quitting, especially someone tapering off Quetiapine? Does it get better over time? How long till you felt emotionally balanced again?

 

Thanks!

[ChessieCat]

7 hours ago, WhitePhoenix said:

Only Quetiapine left and I'm only taking 2mg of it which might be the same as taking nothing but just to be safe I'm going super slow.

 

Please don't be deceived.  Psychiatric drugs can have a big effect even at low doses.  And many members find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go, reducing less and/or holding longer.

 

It is better to continue reducing nice and slowly and know that you will get off eventually then to try to go too fast and have to try and updose/reinstate and then stabilise.  And we have members who have tried to get off too quickly and it has ended up taking longer than if they had gone at a steady rate.  It has nothing to do with how strong or determined you are as a person.  The brain has adapted to getting the drug and we need to sneak it away.

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

After all the good work that you have done it would be silly to mess things up now.  If you stop at too high a dose you might  experience insomnia.  Sometimes reinstating the dose will not work, even if it did before, because the effect of psychiatric drugs is cumulative.

 

The suggestion is to try and go as low as you can before stopping.  Brassmonkey when to 0.016mg before stopping Paxil, which was the lowest dose that he could weigh and then divide manually.  Because I could make a liquid and I had other health issues going on I decided to keep going lower and stopped at 0.0025mg Pristiq, which seems like a ridiculously small amount but I had tapered for 6 years and wanted to get off with minimal issues, and it worked and was worth it.

 

When to end the taper and jump to zero?

 

You might be able to see what was the last dose the successful members stopped at:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=seroquel&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=28

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=Quetiapine&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=28

 

 

[ChessieCat]

I don't think you have been given this link.  There is a link in Post #1 to a post which explains how to get non standard doses:

 

Tips for tapering off quetiapine (Seroquel)

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by ChessieCat

[WhitePhoenix]

Hi @ChessieCat

 

Thanks a lot for the valuable piece of information that you posted!

It's really great to hear that. 

 

I think I've already messed up my tapering by going too quick. Last year it was perfectly clear to me because I suddenly started to experience symptoms of anguish, depression, anxiety, lack of positive feelings, insomnia, etc when a few months back I was fine. I was at 8mg/7mg and jumped to 0 in a period of 3 months (quetiapine minimum dosage that is commercially available is 25mg).

 

According to the logs I keep, I've only been able to reduce 50% of the dosage each year (50% of the previous dosage) while still remaining psychologically balanced. I broke that last year when I quickly tried to jump to 0 because I thought what I was taking was close to nothing.

Lesson here is, just like you said, one should continue tapering slowly even at extremely low doses.

According to this 50% formula, I should be at 4mg by now and not at 2mg as I am. 

 

I could reinstate again to 4mg, but perhaps that's not a good idea as going down and up again with the dosage can destabilize my brain (I've already upped the dosage last year due to problematic withdrawal symptoms). So I think I'll just stay at 2mg for a bunch of months (maybe even till the end of this year) and wait for my brain to stabilize again. What do you think?

 

I'll be extra careful now as, I think what I did last year really screwed me up psychologically. 

 

Another problem I'll have is going lower than 2mg, although I won't have to think about that in the coming days/months. My digital scale can only measure 5mg at a minimum and I wouldn't want to go with a liquid solution as I've already read in this forum that Quetiapine doesn't mix well or doesn't work well in liquid form.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

 

[WhitePhoenix]

Or should I bump up my dosage to 3mg or 4mg in hopes that my nervous system and my mood stabilizes?

 

I don't like where I'm at right now (since 1 year ago when I've tried to tapper more quickly).

When I thought I had completely beaten depression (I felt good, with no real symptoms of depression for around 4 years), it came back again and I think my rapid tapper is most likely the biggest catalyzer.

I do seem to be getting better, however, for some parts of some days I still feel pretty bad.

 

Other things I'm doing to help me stabilize:

- exercise regularly

- eat well

- Suplements: Turmeric Curcumin, Vitamin D, L-Tryptophan, melatonin

- Meditation

 

I've recently enrolled in an online meditation course to try to get better at meditation. I've been meditating for 1 year and a half and it does seem to help even though I'm at a very novice level as I've learned it by myself, reading books, etc.

I might also try to add steady state cardio back again at the maximum aerobic heart rate (MAHR). On the days that I sleep badly and I'm feeling a bit trashed but can still do some moderate exercise, I feel it helps to get me back up again.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, WhitePhoenix said:

I could reinstate again to 4mg

 

You have been on 2mg since November 27, 2021.  That is 2 months.  Your brain will have made adjustments to 2mg during that time and taking 4mg now might be too much.

 

If your withdrawal symptoms are bearable it is better not to trying updosing and hold until you reach WDnormal.

 

(Sorry if these have been duplicated).

 

SA strongly encourages members to learn and use non drug coping skills:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

It's important to listen to your body/symptoms and not taper if you are still experiencing withdrawal symptoms.

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Stability

 

WDnormal

 

And Brassmonkey talks more about it here:

 

tao-of-the-brassmonkey

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, WhitePhoenix said:

My digital scale can only measure 5mg at a minimum

 

Q:  What type of scale do you have? 

 

The Gemini-20 and similar scales can measure a lot less than that amount.

 

See: 

 

using-a-scale-to-weigh-and-measure-doses

 

2 hours ago, WhitePhoenix said:

Or should I bump up my dosage to 3mg or 4mg in hopes that my nervous system and my mood stabilizes?

 

Q:  What dose are you currently taking?  2mg or 3mg?

 

Your drug signature says 2mg.  Please update if necessary.

 

5 hours ago, WhitePhoenix said:

I could reinstate again to 4mg, but perhaps that's not a good idea as going down and up again with the dosage can destabilize my brain

 

2 hours ago, WhitePhoenix said:

Or should I bump up my dosage to 3mg or 4mg in hopes that my nervous system and my mood stabilizes?

 

You have already answered your own question.

 

2 hours ago, WhitePhoenix said:

I don't like where I'm at right now (since 1 year ago when I've tried to tapper more quickly).

When I thought I had completely beaten depression (I felt good, with no real symptoms of depression for around 4 years), it came back again and I think my rapid tapper is most likely the biggest catalyzer.

I do seem to be getting better, however, for some parts of some days I still feel pretty bad.

 

You have tapered too quickly.  The solution is generally to do a long hold.  The fact that you have noticed improvement is a good sign.  It is "normal" in this situation to have variations in how you feel.

 

the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization

 

These are both excellent:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

On 12/27/2015 at 6:37 AM, Altostrata said:

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made. 

 

 

[WhitePhoenix]

Hi again @ChessieCat

 

Thanks you very much for all your support, tips and insights. Really appreciate it!

 

I created this account recently but I'm not actually new to this forum. I've been following it for years.

 

 

13 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

The Gemini-20 and similar scales can measure a lot less than that amount.

 

I bought the digital scale because of this forum. I tried to follow what others were doing and buy the Gemini-20, I can't remember exactly but I think I ended up buying an equivalent or very similar model to the Gemini-20. Maybe I'm just mistaken but I've never got a reading below 4mg in the scale or maybe it's not actually the same as the Gemini-20.

 

I was also thinking that since the effects of the medication are cumulative, at least at the dosage I'm on, it doesn't seem to count the dosage you take each day but the mean of the dosage you take for several days (this is also denoted by withdrawal symptoms only actually appearing after around 2 months of the tapper), I could, for example, also play with taking the 5mg one day on, one day off (if for example I wanted to tapper by 50%) if the scale doesn't measure below 5mg (5mg whole pill weight equals around 2mg active substance). If I wanted to tapper by 10% I could take the medicine 9 days and not take it on the 10th day.

 

13 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Your drug signature says 2mg.  Please update if necessary.

Yes my signature is correct. I am at 2mg active substance of Quetiapine.

 

13 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

You have tapered too quickly.  The solution is generally to do a long hold.  The fact that you have noticed improvement is a good sign.  It is "normal" in this situation to have variations in how you feel.

Yes, I still feel my brain isn't 100% but I do feel some improvements.

I notice my sleep is a bit strange and probably not as repairing as it once was. My mood is also on some days and for some period of those days altered. Lack of positive emotions, depressive mood, etc..

 

Thanks, I'll keep the dosage at 2mg then. I agree, best probably to hold then and I do feel I'm getting better.

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

6 hours ago, WhitePhoenix said:

I could, for example, also play with taking the 5mg one day on, one day off (if for example I wanted to tapper by 50%)

 

NEVER SKIP DOSES TO TAPER

 

6 hours ago, WhitePhoenix said:

Maybe I'm just mistaken but I've never got a reading below 4mg in the scale

 

I have not used a scale myself but there are many SA members who do.  I know you need to "tare" the scales, and I think some members put a weight on the scale, tare it, leave the weight on and add the tablet powder.  And I read mention that you need to change the measurement.  The videos below in the bolded links will probably explain this.

 

Brassmonkey's last dose was 0.016mg (mgai) and he managed to weigh his tablets right down until the very last few reductions where he would weigh the powder and then divide it manually.

 

There are videos and excellent posts in this topic:  using-a-scale-to-weigh-and-measure-doses

 

Somebody posted a video the other day in this post here.  At about the 4m30s mark had starts explaining how to use the scale.

 

And here is the link to a search for the word "video" in the Using a Scale topic so you can find the posts with links to other videos:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=video&quick=1&type=forums_topic&item=1596

[WhitePhoenix]

Thanks so much again, I'll look at the links in depth tomorrow.

 

I'm amazed at your level of support, the dedication, the way it's all explained with reference links for me to follow and the quality of the information. I really truly appreciate it! You're awesome ChessieCat (for the lack of your real name)!

 

<RANT>

And to think that psychiatrists charge a premium value to only give you wrong information and don't have any patience to hear your thoughts on your situation. 

I was with a psychiatrist like this recently. He told me that what I was saying about taper didn't make any sense (basically what everybody that follows this forum is doing), that he would give 4mg to a baby (what I was taking at the time), that all my withdrawal symptoms were a product of my imagination (inverse placedo effect), that all his patients get out of the medication very easily (year right!). In the end I had to pay 90€ for this stupid advice that only made me take wrong decisions afterwards. In the end I told him he didn't know what he was saying (in less direct words) but I still stupidly followed some of his advice which set me back with some bad withdrawal symptoms. These psychiatrists and the pharmaceutical industry really piss me off with their cheesy practices!

Sorry about the rant.

<RANT>

 

[ChessieCat]

When I was talking to my doctor, who would be around my age (64) about tapering I made the comment that I realise that most people can probably get off their psychiatric drug with no issues.  He slowly shook his head and softly said "not many".

 

To give you an idea of how these drugs can affect us, I will tell you of my own experience.  And please don't think that because it was from a high dose that it doesn't relate to your situation.  Many members of SA find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go, reducing less and/or holding longer.  This topic helps to explain why might be why:

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

I was taking 100mg Pristiq and reduced my dose to 50mg.  During the 2 weeks I was on the lower dose I suffered extreme cog fog where even walking took my full concentration.  It was like my head was full of mud.  At the end of the 2 weeks I couldn't type.  Being a professional typist I immediately realised that something was terribly wrong.  I had joined SA a few days before I couldn't type and they had suggested taking more of my drug but I didn't straight away because I was doing a lot of reading trying to understand what was happening.

 

When I couldn't type I decided to take extra Pristiq and after only about 4 HOURS (not days) I was able to type again and the brain fog was lifting.  Because I had a benchmark I knew that it was the drug which had caused it.

 

And when I first started my proper taper I made a 10% reduction and had ear pain.  I took some cold medicine but it didn't do anything.  I then took a tiny bit more of my Pristiq and again within a few hours the symptom went.

[WhitePhoenix]

 

15 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

When I was talking to my doctor, who would be around my age (64) about tapering I made the comment that I realise that most people can probably get off their psychiatric drug with no issues.  He slowly shook his head and softly said "not many".

 

This article from the New York times that was referenced in one of the links you posted: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/05/health/depression-withdrawal-drugs.html says that 78% of people have severe withdrawal symptoms when getting off Paxil.

 

15 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

To give you an idea of how these drugs can affect us, I will tell you of my own experience.  And please don't think that because it was from a high dose that it doesn't relate to your situation.  Many members of SA find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go, reducing less and/or holding longer.  This topic helps to explain why might be why:

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

I was taking 100mg Pristiq and reduced my dose to 50mg.  During the 2 weeks I was on the lower dose I suffered extreme cog fog where even walking took my full concentration.  It was like my head was full of mud.  At the end of the 2 weeks I couldn't type.  Being a professional typist I immediately realised that something was terribly wrong.  I had joined SA a few days before I couldn't type and they had suggested taking more of my drug but I didn't straight away because I was doing a lot of reading trying to understand what was happening.

 

When I couldn't type I decided to take extra Pristiq and after only about 4 HOURS (not days) I was able to type again and the brain fog was lifting.  Because I had a benchmark I knew that it was the drug which had caused it.

 

And when I first started my proper taper I made a 10% reduction and had ear pain.  I took some cold medicine but it didn't do anything.  I then took a tiny bit more of my Pristiq and again within a few hours the symptom went.

 

I've had depression issues since I was a teenager, around 13 years of age. It kept getting worse over the years until it got really bad when I was around 20 years old.

That's when I decided to try to go to a psychiatrist, not because of my depression but because I also couldn't sleep properly. He prescribed me something for sleep but also an antidepressant. 

Things actually started to get better for a while, not sure if because my life circumstances had changed (less stress), a placebo effect from taking the pills, or the actual effect of the medication.

 

However it didn't last long, after about 1 or 2 years things started to get worse again. I started to take more and more psych meds to help combat the depression but at this time they weren't helping much and my depression just got worse and worse.

 

Fast forward to around the age of 34, I went to an isolated place in the woods and  tried to end it all by taking an overdose of pills that would supposedly be fatal. 

I was unconscious for 1 day and a half till just by mere chance someone found me. I was nearly almost dead.

Spent a few months in the hospital recovering and eventually got out. 

I was still in really bad shape when I got out. I had this constant feeling of doom, that I would eventually die some day. I felt so bad that I thought that I wouldn't be able to bare my existence and sooner or later things would end.

 

Somehow, after about 1 year, 1 year and something things started to get better.  I decided at that time that I would quit medication as after more than 10 years taking it, it didn't improve things, on the contrary my life just got worse and worse till I tried to end my existence.
I still can't quite explain exactly what changed things, maybe it was a combination of practices I was adopting and my life circumstances.

 

So things were getting better, things were improving in a bunch of areas of my life. I was also slowly getting off the meds and the side effects from taking them were disappearing, though I was still experiencing withdrawal issue from time to time.

 

For around 4 years things were good and I completely thought they would never get bad again that I had completely beaten my depression.

 

Fast forward again to 1 year and something ago, my depression started to creep in again. Tapering too fast and my life circumstances not being the best are likely the reason.

I'm fighting this with every tactic, coping strategies I can discover. Things aren't nearly as worse as when I was 34. Hopefully they won't get to that stage and hopefully I can get to that place I was 2 years ago. I'm determined to fight this with all the strength.

 

In conclusion: 

Psych meds didn't help my depression in the long run. In fact I might even theorize they made it worse. All those years I was taking them I had side effects, things like cholesterol issues, excessive visceral fat, sleeping too much and feeling tired (I was sleeping 12 hours each day), etc. Thankfully I always took care of my health, I ate healthy, regularly exercised, etc so that probably prevented things from getting worse.

Another bad aspect of psych meds is that when I decided to quit my medication, I had to struggle with withdrawal problems, something I'm still experiencing after 5 and a half years of tapering.

 

People taking the psych meds either get a boost in well being initially because of a placebo effect or because the meds actually work in the short term. But they don't actually work on the mid, long term and in fact they make things far worse.

 

So I think psych meds are a really bad solution that only contribute to the problem. They're probably only prescribed because they give good profit to the pharmaceutical industry as they are so addictive and hard to get out off. After watching the tv series "Dopesick", documentaries, reading news about the pharmaceutical industry and its practices, etc, I'm more and more convinced of this. 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

4 hours ago, WhitePhoenix said:

Psych meds didn't help my depression in the long run. In fact I might even theorize they made it worse.

 

There is a book by Peter Breggin titled:  Your Drug May Be Your Problem.

[WhitePhoenix]

Thanks for the book reference. Sounds like an interesting book!

 

Yeah I think there's definitely more to psych meds than the pharmaceutical industry would like us to know.

 

[WhitePhoenix]

I've been browsing through the forum resources on how to combat depression. I've already read a few posts.

 

I was wondering whether you know more resources, websites, practices, etc?

 

Thanks again! 🙂

[ChessieCat]

This site seems to have very good resources:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/depression.htm

[WhitePhoenix]

Thanks CessieCat!

[WhitePhoenix]

Hi!

 

An update to my situation..

 

I've been feeling OK for a bunch of days now. Today, it's going to be 12 weeks since I started on the dosage I'm in now.

 

So I guess I was destabilized probably due to withdrawal symptoms and my brain has now adapted to the new dosage.

 

@ChessieCat Re-reading our conversation about weighing with a digital scale I realize now that there was a confusion and we weren't talking exactly about the same thing. 

 

I was saying I was on 2mg (which is 5 mg whole pill weight) and you were saying brassmonkey's last dosage was 0.016mg. In Europe we would say (though not sure if that confusion was caused because of localization) that brassmonkey's last dosage was 16mg (not 0.016mg).

So brassmonkey's last dosage was effectively 3 times the dosage I'm in now. My scale is also identical to the videos so probably the same used by brassmonkey which doesn't go below 5mg (or 0.005mg as you say).

 

In conclusion, I think I'll quit my psych meds completely today. Fingers crossed it all goes fine.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

0.005mg = 5mcg (micrograms)

 

https://www.convertunits.com/from/0.05+mg/to/mcg

[WhitePhoenix]

Your scales measure micrograms?

My scale looks exactly like the one in the videos, it also has gem20 written on it so it likely is the same scale (or very similar).
Under its small screen it has this written: "Capacity: 20g x 0.001g". So it only measures from 1mg to 20mg (milligrams).

[WhitePhoenix]

https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-GEMINI-20-Portable-MilliGram/dp/B0012TDNAM

" American Weigh Scales GEMINI-20 Portable MilliGram Scale

The GEMINI-20 is Portable, highly accurate, Milligrams (0.001g=1mg) digital scale, perfect for precious stones such as gems, diamonds, etc.

-20g x 0.001g (capacity / accuracy)."

[brassmonkey]

My final dosage was 0.016mg or 0.000016g. A very tiny dose.

 

Things can get confused translating between the European use of a "," and the American use of a ".".

 

The gemini-20 and all its clones measure in milligrams. The display reading 00.000g. A scale that could measure in mcg would be so expensive your average person could not afford it. The gemini-20 loses its accuracy at weights below 4mg (0.004g) making it impractical to measure anything smaller.

 

There are two methods to measure the small doses required for The Endgame Taper: use a liquid solution and calculate the dose strength by changing the dilution ratio and dose volume or use the visual division of a known weight to estimate the dose amount. This is the method I used. Starting with 4mgpw (milligrams pill weight) and visually dividing the material into smaller and smaller units. I ended up with approximately 1/4 of 1/4 of 1/4 of that 4mg (I'd have to dig out my records to be more exact). Using a liquid is much more exact, but the visual divisions worked quite well.

[ChessieCat]

Sorry if I confused anyone.  I have added BrassMonkey's information to Post #1 of this topic:

 

using-a-scale-to-weigh-and-measure-doses

[WhitePhoenix]

2 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

The gemini-20 loses its accuracy at weights below 4mg (0.004g) making it impractical to measure anything smaller.

Yes that's my experience as well. I'm now on no psych meds since yesterday. My previous dose was 0.005g (5mg) and I noticed that anything tinier than that would read as 0mg on the gemini scale.

[WhitePhoenix]

45 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Sorry if I confused anyone.  I have added BrassMonkey's information to Post #1 of this topic:

 

using-a-scale-to-weigh-and-measure-doses

 

Thanks @ChessieCat just a bit of confusion between units of measurements (mg, g, mcg)... all good now.

As always thank you very much for your support and thanks @brassmonkey too!

[ChessieCat]

19 minutes ago, WhitePhoenix said:

Yes that's my experience as well. I'm now on no psych meds since yesterday. My previous dose was 0.005g (5mg) and I noticed that anything tinier than that would read as 0mg on the gemini scale.

 

Congratulations!  Please remember to add the dose that you last took and the date to your drug signature.

 

It Doesn’t end at “0”

[brassmonkey]

5mg is much too high to make the jump to "0". I would strongly recommend reinstating at 5mg, waiting a few weeks and then continuing to taper using either of the methods I mentioned. From what Ican make out from your signature, which needs updated and cleaned up, you are reducing from 300mg of Seroquel. That would make your Theoretical Exit Dose around 0.2mg.

[ChessieCat]

24 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

From what Ican make out from your signature, which needs updated and cleaned up

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature
Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[WhitePhoenix]

On 2/19/2022 at 8:53 PM, brassmonkey said:

5mg is much too high to make the jump to "0". I would strongly recommend reinstating at 5mg, waiting a few weeks and then continuing to taper using either of the methods I mentioned. From what Ican make out from your signature, which needs updated and cleaned up, you are reducing from 300mg of Seroquel. That would make your Theoretical Exit Dose around 0.2mg.

Again a bit of confusion between units of measurement. My 5mg (2mg active substance) is 1/3 the last dosage you took before you quit entirely. The gemini scale doesn't go below 4mg, no way for me to measure lower anyway.
Side note: Quetiapine lowest sold dose is 25mg which is more than 10 times what I was taking before quitting. As far as I can tell I'm not experiencing any significant withdrawal symptoms so far, lets hope it lasts (I think I'll be fine this time).

Thanks.

[WhitePhoenix]

On 2/19/2022 at 9:18 PM, ChessieCat said:

From what Ican make out from your signature, which needs updated and cleaned up

Can you guys tell me what info doesn't need to be in my signature? Perhaps easier if I start cleaning up by removing what doesn't need to be there. Thanks! 

[ChessieCat]

4 hours ago, WhitePhoenix said:

Can you guys tell me what info doesn't need to be in my signature? Perhaps easier if I start cleaning up by removing what doesn't need to be there. Thanks! 

 

I suggest that you copy and paste your current drug signature into a post here in your topic BEFORE you edit it.

 

Basically we need to see details for the last 2 years and a summary of anything older.  See:

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature

 

This link goes straight to your drug signature:

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature