BlondeAndDrugged: Tapering off risperdol

[BlondeAndDrugged]

Hi, hoping this site is still active, anyway..

 

I was hospitalized following a manic episode recently.   I was given 2mg risperidol and 1200mg lithium, and diagnosed bipolar.  I tend to have fairly high anxiety, and I had a week of poor sleep following by several high stress incidents which triggered my mania, although the episode was generally harmless I did get pretty delusional.

 

Anyway getting home I was feeling okay but after reading about the god awful risperdol I wanted to get off it ASAP and I tried to go cold turkey...  this was a big mistake as I ***** myself up, with body tremors, anxiety, awful insomnia, feelings of despair, and horrible brain fog, where I felt highly disoriented and lacked some physical awareness.  I had been on risperidol for about 10 days and quit for two, then went back to my 2mg dose.  I’ve been dosing back up the last 5 days, although I very much would like to start tapering offf the drug.  My symptoms improved although the brain fog seems to be slowest to lift, I also developed Ed, and noticed that I have a very narrow emotional range, and little drive or pleasure.   The insomnia improved but I only slept 5-6 hrs a night. 
 

how badly did I **** myself by going cold turkey 2 days?  Will this brain fog lift I wonder, it’s been improving each day but it makes everything harder.  I’m going to adhere to the 10% taper method, even though I really want to get off this drug I don’t want to mess myself up further.  Any advice on how to tell when it’s okay to start tapering is appreciated.  Will the symptoms from going CT persist? (Ed, brain fog)

 

Ive heard people mention “windows” on this site, I believe it has to do with brief periods where you feel 100%.  I hope I am still capable of getting there, this drug has defined the last week for me, I’m terrified of it and keep praying there’s a way to get me back to how I was before I got shackled to this drug.

[BlondeAndDrugged]

Another question - has anyone on this site successfully tapered off risperdol?  I saw a couple successful CT’s, but am worried this drug is particularly challenging to taper

[BlondeAndDrugged]

Regarding tapering, would switching to another, more manageable drug, be a decent idea?  My doctor had mentioned trying something else, I was kinda scared to go that route but I do really hate risperdol so maybe it could work?  Any suggestions on something that I could switch to safely?

[DataGuy]

Hi @BlondeAndDrugged

 

Welcome to SA. Glad you found us. Sorry to hear what happened to you.

 

Good that you have already heard about tapering by 10%, here is the link in case you have not read the entire topic yet. Note that tapering too quickly (or cold-stopping) can result in some pretty severe withdrawal symptoms that can last quite a long time (months to years). Tapering slowly helps minimize both symptoms and symptom severity, ensuring you can remain functional while you get off the drug. Reducing more quickly than 10% can be too fast for many people, and as you get to lower doses you may want to slow the reduction even further, since receptor occupancy of these drugs tends to decrease more rapidly at lower doses. Here are some tapering Risperdal specifically.

 

Are Risperidone and lithium the only drugs you are taking? Are you taking any supplements? Some other drugs can interfere with metabolism and can also have psychotropic effects (antibiotics, steroids, some supplements, coffee, nicotine etc.). It would be very helpful if you could create a drug history in your signature like this one. This link will take you directly to the signature. Signatures generally look like this: 

 

Example:

2001–2002 paroxetine 
2003  citalopram 
2004  paroxetine
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to 2016 Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg

 

This will allow any moderator or member to quickly see your history and where you are in your taper, and thus be able to help more easily without too much reading (most people here are volunteers and have other jobs).

 

As for success stories tapering Risperidone, yes, we have many. Here is a link to some. 

 

Sometimes drug switching can cause more problems than it is worth. I don't know that Risperidone is more difficult to taper than other antipsychotics. There is not really any research on that issue and the severity of withdrawal effects of each individual AP are not known with much precision. Some experts have noted that Quetiapine and Clozapine tend to cause some of the most severe withdrawal problems because of their tendency to produce stronger dopamine supersensitization, likely resulting from their particular psychopharm properties. The best thing you can do is the same thing you are currently doing: holding at the same dose and waiting for symptoms to abate. Then after getting symptoms to an absolute minimum, waiting as long as you can manage, you can begin tapering. But it is much better to allow your system to stabilize first. As I mentioned before, symptoms from rapid discontinuation can hang around for a very long time if you simply try to push through them. 

 

In the meantime, you might find some of these non drug coping techniques helpful to ease your symptoms. Hope you start feeling better soon : )

[BlondeAndDrugged]

Hi @DataGuy and thank you for the thoughtful response, it was much appreciated on a day I was feeling so miserable.  I looked up the links you included and read over your post a couple times.

 

Over this week my sleep has stabilized to about 8 hours a night, sometimes 7 but that is usual for me before all this happened.  While I am feeling a bit better and my brain fog isn’t as severe, it’s still there, I feel like I have no thoughts in my head, which used to be busy with activity all the time.  It’s also hard to think very deeply or creatively about something, I used to enjoy pondering ideas, looking at something from multiple angles, that is just gone.  I’ve read it is a common effect when on this poison.  I worry a lot about being permanently less intelligent, brain weight decreasing etc.  To explain fully would take more words than I have energy for, but I’ll just say that it seems the things I valued the most about myself are the things this drug destroys, it’s heartbreaking, but right now I don’t even have a heart to feel with.  Anhedonia is another major change I’ve noticed, I just feel nothing.  Listening to music or dancing makes it blatantly obvious.  Two things that used to put me over the moon now feel are about as emotionally engaging as trying to pass a turd.  Literally I feel nothing, just cold observation.  I think writing this is cathartic though, it feels good to share the darkness that has enveloped me.  I also feel no motivation for anything, the ideal day is now to just eat, lie in bed and sleep.  I used to be super high energy & creative, busy and engaged in life all the time, and very happy.  That life seems like a fantasy now, I’m worried I’ll forget what it was like. I’ve become obsessed with this site and read it for hours each day if I can, looking for hope or similar experiences or whatever it has that I seem to need so badly right now.

 

I’m going to say something that I know goes against the message of this site, but I am going to try a fast taper starting tomorrow.  The reason is I cannot bear the symptoms of this awful drug and it’s poisonous effects are too much.  I plan on slowing down as I get further along, but I’m going to try redducing to 1mg off the bat, then doing 10% cuts after I stabilize there.  Partly because I feel disappointed in myself for failing to go CT, but also because my psychiatrist recommended starting there and she is supportive of me tapering, and I have seen many who were poisoned by risperdol had success with initial large cuts. Mainly I just can’t stomach being on this drug and longer than I absolutely have to, the only reason I wouldn’t go CT again is to preserve my job and relationship, both of which I feel are in jeopardy anyway thanks to the disgusting impairments caused by this poison I was given.  

 

I appreciate this site so much and the generous moderators like yourself who volunteer their time to help reduce the suffering of strangers.  it is a beautiful thing to see despite the hell so many here are going through.  Thank you.

[DataGuy]

Thanks for your post @BlondeAndDrugged. I hope the initial cut is going ok. Remember there is little benefit to suffering through tough symptoms by continuing to taper too quickly, because they can hang around for months or years (hopefully not years, but they do for some people). Then it is very hard to reverse by updosing. You want to avoid allowing severe symptoms to gain a foothold, because then you run the risk of them setting up shop for the long haul. It will be important for you to balance withdrawal symptoms and adverse effects from the drug while tapering. I understand the feeling of wanting to be off as quickly as possible, but it's important to not rush things, as tempting as that is. Remember also that withdrawal symptoms can have a gradual and delayed onset, especially when you are tapering quickly. 

 

It is a bit like tennis. You don't want to get down a game, because then you are playing from behind, and even if you play things well and hold serve, you can still lose the set. Best to keep things on as even a keel as possible, as I'm sure you've found from reading the site. Once things are thrown out of whack, it can take a very long time to put Humpty Dumpty together again. 

 

Glad you found the site, and good luck with the taper : )

 

If you run into problems from tapering too fast, this topic about reinstating or updosing to reduce withdrawal symptoms may be of help, if you have not already read it. There is a definite mention of Humpty Dumpty in there. 

[BlondeAndDrugged]

Hey @DataGuy thank you for writing back to me again and the thoughtful words.  I agree with you and I don’t plan on making any more cuts this large unless by a major stroke of luck I don’t suffer any significant withdrawal symptoms during my entire taper.  I’m really going to feel this out to see if it works, if I have a prolonged bad withdrawal I will consider going to a higher dose like 1.5 or 1.75mg.   
 

I’m on the third day of this cut, so far so good, although I did have some interrupted sleep last night, I’m gonna monitor that.  today I feel less groggy and depressed than I had been feeling, it is very noticeable and I am very happy about this, hoping that this it stays smooth.  

 

can’t express how grateful I am for this site, you guys are literally saving lives.  I’ll post any major updates.

[BlondeAndDrugged]

Every day I seem to becoming more depressed, I hadn’t been depressed in a very long time but it’s been progressing directly with how long I’ve been medicated.  The thought of being on this medicine for such a long period of time combined with the anhedonia I’m feeling has sapped any joy completely from me. I ended a short relationship I had because I was so miserable, I couldn’t summon the will to leave the house.  I wasn’t fit mentally to be dating, I feel completely empty now, what’s the point of doing anything, I won’t be off this poison anytime soon, each day it does more damage, potentially permanent or very long term, who knows, and I’m stuck.  I was happy, vibrant, intelligent before this happened, now I don’t care about anything besides eating and sleeping.  I don’t like to write sad updates like this, sorry for anyone reading it, it’s just an outlet for me.  
 

The only thing I want is to be off the risperidone, but I couldn’t cold turkey it and that breaks my heart, how long can I live like this?  I know I’ll be in this haze a long time, It’s difficult to work, it’s difficult to care about anything.  I couldn’t be more deflated.  I don’t know how people survive years of this, it’s been about a month for me and I feel broken, and the thing is I have made a big reduction in my medicine, and I’m sleeping ok, people go through much worse, but this is already enough, it’s the thought of how much I’ll have to endure and what I’ve lost that gets me.  I’m ashamed to be like this.

[DataGuy]

Hi @BlondeAndDrugged, sorry you feel so bad. Is it possible that you feel awful because of the large cut you made on the med? Important to consider that. Unfortunately there is no good way to get off these drugs other than slowly. Making large cuts or going the rapid withdrawal / CT route are just apt to make you feel worse for longer, so although it is unpleasant to take the drug and remain on it for longer than you want, it may be something you need to come to grips with. Unfortunately many of us need to wait a very long time to feel better, but when it comes, it will be that much sweeter.

 

If you have not read some of the success stories, now might be a good time to do it. Patience and stoicism are both great virtues to cultivate in withdrawal. If you like, I or someone else can recommend a book on those topics. Or perhaps you know one you'd like to read or you've already read. It's important to find inspiration and strength wherever you can. It's definitely not an easy journey. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by DataGuy

[Regularjoe42]

Been in the same boat for about a year now. Everything that you have said holds true to me too. the thing about having 0 thoughts, listening to music and hearing just noise, no motivation, no creative capabilities, sexual dysfunction, no joy, no pleasure is all true. The sad thing is that no one is gonna believe us and the fact that this drug did this to us. I have gone through dozens of threads on this website everybody has reported the same. 

 

This is how this drug works, shutting down everything that makes us human. All that is left after consuming this poison is a lobotomized zombie. Sorry for not bearing any positive feedback. I wish you a speedy recovery. keep updating progress.

[BlondeAndDrugged]

Hey @DataGuy thanks for the ideas about stoicism, I have a little familiarity with it and if you did have a book recommendation I will try to read it if my brain can handle it.  Also the depression might be from reducing lithium simultaneously, I read that is a common side effect with reducing lithium, combined with ending a relationship at the same time.. I was severely depressed all last week up until about Tuesday this week.  That period was truly awful and I think the most depressed I’ve ever been but I’ll not go into details.  It miraculously started lifting this week, and I have started exercising in the evenings which seems to help a lot.  It seems to come and go but it’s a lot better the last couple days.  Im really trying not to dwell on my situation.  

 

I feel very trapped, I want off this medicine so badly, I’m terrified of what it can do to me if I stop, and I absolutely despise what it’s currently doing to me.  My personality is gone, so many things I loved about myself are shut down and for what?  I feel no benefit from this poison at all - I’m just ranting to vent a little, I don’t want to come across wrong, know that basically everyone here suffers a lot, and it’s unfair… it’s just so damn frustrating,I was at one of the best times in my life, and now… this is not a human experience.

 

 anyway I treat this as the only place I can express my frustration and people understand, like regularjoe was saying, no one will believe us.  My sister who I am very close to is one of the only people I have confided my experience to, she said she was very happy I’m on the medicine and I will get better any day now, and I just need to let it heal me.. she works in a hospital and believes in medicine 110%, I can’t even tell her I’m tapering or she’ll be angry with me.

 

@Regularjoe42 I read your story too, I’m sorry you were basically poisoned with this, that’s terrible and insane.  I seem to have the exact same side effects as you.  I read your description it felt exactly like what I’ve experienced.  These are the real effects of this medicine, they should be printed as the intended effects because it’s starting to seem that these are the typical result of what people experience when taking it.  Who would accept that?  the makers of this must have been well aware the whole time.  it makes me feel like if someone has (or is thought to have) a mental illness they don’t matter anymore, any “side” effect is irrelevant and can be ignored.  Anyway sorry that was kinda dark, I appreciate your words and hope things start getting better for you.  At least you are off this poison now, your body is healing, sorry it’s been so long, hope you feel better.

 

 

[DataGuy]

I would not worry @BlondeAndDrugged, your personality will come back as you heal from withdrawal. It's unfortunate that so few people understand the struggle. I think that is why the online communities like this one thrive. Most other people simply can't conceive of what withdrawal is like.

 

I'm sorry your sister doesn't quite understand your situation. In the absence of reading and understanding the medical research and seeing it in practice, most people simply have faith in medicine. And faith is a good word. When confronted by the truth about it in the form of patient outcomes and marginal benefits, most will simply refuse to accept it. It's a bit like challenging someone's religion. To have their mind changed they need to have a genuine curiosity about it and an open mind, but most people would prefer to live under a happy delusion. I think understanding medical research is an important element. It seems like even most people who read the research don't actually understand it, even doctors. I think that is because they see it as science and not marketing. If you look at the research as marketing, it begins to make a bit more sense. But that's a difficult transition to make for some people. Here is the former editor of the BMJ on the subject: "Medical Journals are an Extension of the Marketing Arm of the Pharmaceutical Industry". Pretty bold statement.

 

I would avoid tapering both the lithium and the risperidone simultaneously. It makes things too convoluted. Even tapering one drug can be deceptively complicated. Since you feel you are experiencing the adverse effects of the drug, it will be important to separate out the withdrawal effects from the side effects (SX) of taking the drug. Tapering will be a balancing act between those two. Adding in the taper of another drug on top of that is one trick too many. 

 

As for books, Marcus Aurelius' "Meditations" is probably the most famous book on Stoicism. You can read what a professor of philosophy thinks about it here. A more modern rendering of the principles of Stoicism is "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F***" by Mark Manson. A friend of mine really like that one. It can also be helpful just to read something that takes you far away in time and place. Some sort of fiction or a very distant history that you find engrossing. As long as it is something that you can become absorbed in. 

[BlondeAndDrugged]

wanted to write a small update to just document my progress, although I don’t have that much to report.
 

I appreciate your kind words and reassurance Dataguy.  Also I got the book by mark Manson you suggested and I like it so far.  I may have to get an audio version of Marcus Aurelius If I can, maybe I could meditate to it.  I’ve been trying to be more consistent with walking and exercising, it helps a lot but is very difficult.  I have at least walked 1hour each day in the past week and exercised 3-4 days also.  I’m going to try and keep this schedule, it’s hard since I’m usually not feeling great after work.

 

I’ve been struggling a lot with depression, I live alone, am pretty socially isolated since I’ve been medicated, it’s like my ability and confidence speaking to people is completely gone so I just stick to myself.  Life can feel pretty empty.  My thoughts tend to dive into reflecting on all I’ve lost, and then spiraling worries about my future and all the catastrophes awaiting me, not wanting to live, etc etc.  but the good news is it seems my depression has been lifting as I’ve been reducing my dose, I’ve been able to exercise more like I said and am now practicing breathing exercises to combat my dark thoughts.  The breathing exercises really help, I just have to be extremely disciplined with them I hope I can make a daily habit of this, it could spare me some mental anguish.

 

Ive been tapering very fast by the standards of this site.  I know you guys don’t like this.  So far I haven’t really had any new withdrawal symptoms while tapering.  I hate taking these neurotoxins, I think about going off them everyday, I could rant about how unfair it is to be stuck like this but I’d be preaching to the choir.  I took very good care of my health all my life and now I have no choice but to poison myself daily, sometimes I feel I’m betraying my own body.  Anyway im going to attempt to slow down my taper soonish, I’d like to get to 0.25mg if i can at least before slowing down.  My sleep hasn’t changed thank the sky gods.  

 

appreciate you guys very much, I am here struggling with you

[DataGuy]

Hi @BlondeAndDrugged,

 

I think I may have missed answering some of your initial questions, although you may have already gotten the answers elsewhere.

 

One thing is that windows are just periods where symptoms are better than usual, not necessarily 100% better. The other question I think I forgot to ask was: how long were you initially on Risperdal before you tried to CT it? Did I read right that it was 10 days, or is that a reference to something else? Your drug history says that you started it in May and then started trying taper less than a month later, I guess after the attempted CT and stabilization period?

 

Glad to hear you haven't had too many new withdrawal symptoms. I think most people can sympathize with just wanting to be off the drugs and wanting to rush the process, but that is where so many get into trouble. If you had only taken the drug for a month or so, I think you are in pretty good shape tapering at the speed you are. I had missed the initial period you'd been medicated at the start of your thread. Is the drug history in your signature your entire drug history? Just wondering whether you had an adverse reaction to the Risperdal....although dependence can develop very quickly, less than 2 weeks is pretty rapid. 

[BlondeAndDrugged]

Hey DataGuy

 

yes I first took risperdone on may 11, that was day one, it was aprox 10 days later I CT’d it for two-three days and almost immediately had a awful reaction that freaked me out - eventually figured out it was from stopping the neurotoxin that caused all these symptoms I never experienced before.  So I resumed a full 2mg dose throughout may then started cutting pretty fast.  So I had the full dose a total of 1 month and have been cutting down 1.5months.  
 

Most of those symptoms appeared when I CT’d but have abated.  Sleep is good, I still have anhedonia but it’s less severe, I have some brain fog and memory issues, sexual problems started when I CT’d and haven’t improved since.  I went through a period of bad depression for about a month after CTing but that has improved a lot.  Sorry if my timeline and story is confusing, I don’t really have the clarity of thought/expression anymore so I might skip around and forget things.  
 

But quick summary is may 11 is first use of risperdone & lithium ever, around may 21 I CT’d and it was very bad, sympotms improved after getting the poison back in my system.  Rapid cut since June 6, have not had any new symptoms since and some of the bad ones are fading away, last few days is best I felt since I cold turkeyed actually. 
 

I appreciate your help!  
 

  I also practice intermittent fasting 15hrs a day, no alcohol, no drugs/smoking, almost no caffeine.  I eat pretty healthy, exercise 3-4x a week (getting easier now I’m feeling better, I was a couch potato for a few weeks completely when symptoms were bad).  My whole life I have been careful about my health and avoided pharmaceutical drugs except for a few brief periods.  Being on risperdone &lithium at all has been extremely hard mentally, I hate risperidone especially with all my heart.  If you look at the history, lawsuits and how this drug has been over prescribed it is disgusting, they give this to children.

 

PS:  yes my signature is full drug history, and yes I had a bad reaction after 10 days when I CT’d. Most of the symptoms seemed to come from that time

[DataGuy]

Thanks @BlondeAndDrugged, just wanted to clarify.  

 

Yes, I agree, Risperidone has as sordid history. Most pharma companies do. Dr. Peter Gotzsche has a book called "Deadly Medicines and Organized Crime" in which he argues that it is best to think of pharmaceutical companies are criminal organizations, since they repeatedly violate the law in a similar manner (he has a big list of the fines they have paid to regulators for their particular violations, most in the billions of dollars). Then there is the class action lawsuits...

 

Glad you are feeling better the last few days. Sounds like you are doing a great job taking care of yourself. Definitely a great idea to stay away from drugs, caffeine, tobacco etc. especially given the reaction you had to lithium and risperdal. Interestingly, smoking may interfere with neuroadaptation when trying to heal from withdrawal, according to this paper. I can relate to the cognitive issues. Cognitive function is pretty variable on my end. But you're making great progress. Keep up the good work : )

Edited July 29, 2021 by DataGuy

[Rrsfc]

Hi, just read your thread and stopped by to leave you a word of encouragement. Go easy on yourself, sometimes we have to be patient. On my journey I met online more than one people that unfortunately died because of the drugs. Suicide because they were so frustrated they couldn't get off (fast tapers can also bring about strong suicidal ideation), or by successive cold turkeys that led to even more drugs, crazy sleep disregulation... Please focus on being well like you are doing, eating right, exercising, having hobbies. Obsessing about the taper can make you reckless in your decisions and lead you to trouble. Go as slow as you need, it's better to go slow and steady, believe me. In my darker times I really enjoyed audiobooks, I listened to them while walking. Kirstin Neff's Self Compassion or other uplifting books can help you a lot, just pick one ypu like. Hope you are doing well today, take care. 

[DataGuy]

How're you doing @BlondeAndDrugged? How are your symptoms? I see you have made quite a bit of progress with aggressive cuts. Hope things are going well : )

[BlondeAndDrugged]

Hey Dataguy - thanks for checking in, I have a positive update today.

 

also thanks Rrsfc for your kind message I appreciate it very much.  I do tend to be hard on myself and was pushing my taper pretty fast out of frustration.  The thing you mentioned about suicidal ideation is very real.  I have not talked about this much online.  During most of my taper I was fantasizing about suicide daily, many times a day.  I wouldn’t go through with these ideas, but they were incessant, these are abnormal for me, I know it’s the meds/withdrawal.

 

anyway I think I am one of the lucky ones with withdrawal.  I have been tapering really fast, but wonderfully haven’t been having major side effects, my sleep has been good.  The main symptom that I’d been having was depression/suicidal ideation, however about 5 days ago I dropped my dose to 0.08mg risperidone/day and it seemed like a big fog lifted.  I thought it might be a window, but so far the severe depression,apathy and lack of energy has mostly gone.  I’m not 100% but I’d say my energy level went from like 2/10 to 7-8/10 overnight.  I haven’t been stuck on the sofa constantly like before, or thinking about death 20 times a day.  I am starting to think I might get out of this in decent shape and feel very fortunate and relieved.  I’m crossing my fingers that things continue smoothly, I am so afraid of getting severe symptoms.. but it’s been good lately, please please let me get out of this ok.  I plan to be off risperidone within about 3 weeks if all goes well, not sure about the lithium, I’m on a low dose so I might just drop it in a few weeks also.  There was one other side effect I hadn’t mentioned, I have noticed pretty heavy hair loss the last few weeks, not sure which drug is responsible or if it is a withdrawal symptom, I hope that stops once I’m off the neurotoxins.

 

hope you have a nice day Dataguy.  Thank you for your messages.

[Rrsfc]

I am happy to know you are doing well. You are very brave, best of luck on your taper. 

[DataGuy]

11 hours ago, BlondeAndDrugged said:

Hey Dataguy - thanks for checking in, I have a positive update today.

 

also thanks Rrsfc for your kind message I appreciate it very much.  I do tend to be hard on myself and was pushing my taper pretty fast out of frustration.  The thing you mentioned about suicidal ideation is very real.  I have not talked about this much online.  During most of my taper I was fantasizing about suicide daily, many times a day.  I wouldn’t go through with these ideas, but they were incessant, these are abnormal for me, I know it’s the meds/withdrawal.

 

I'm sorry you have had to deal with this, @BlondeAndDrugged. I hope for your sake that the SI is a result of adverse drug effects and not withdrawal. Just be careful at the end of the taper. 

 

Is your signature correct, you are on 300mg of lithium? I'd recommend not thinking of this as a low dose. I can understand wanting to get rid of it, but the best thing you can do for yourself is to proceed in a slow, step-wise taper. You can go faster than recommended, but I would still make cuts, even if they are large, and then wait a good 5-7 days until blood levels stabilize. Have you read this thread? 

 

Glad you are feeling better and hope it continues. Just don't want a crash ending when you are doing so well. 

[arbor]

Hi @BlondeAndDrugged--I've appreciated reading your posts, and am wondering how you're doing?