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EveningMuffin: how to get off Quetiapine (Seroquel) for insomnia


EveningMuffin

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  • Moderator

I would also add that I don't think your post-medication sleep situation is necessarily hopeless. I'm sure there are plenty of behavioral techniques that you haven't tried, and I don't know what was going on at the time the sleep problems began. Sometimes people do activities that society perceives as normal but which can cause problems in some people, like drinking coffee regularly, eating late, drinking regularly, smoking, lack of exercise etc etc. or sometimes psychology can takeover and the worry about sleep also causes problems with sleep. Remember that there are always many potential causes of the problem, and therefore many potential solutions : )

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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EveningMuffin

Thanks @DataGuy for the feedback.

I think I could try 5% reduction next time and see if the change is more smooth. Then I could try to do next 5% in 3 weeks (if I am stable and without symptoms) so the 10% reduction is achieved in 6 weeks not 4.

Of course I am eager to get rid of this @$%t as soon as possible, but also understand the need not to screw it up.

I remember how miserable I was when I CT from my coctail and I am reading this forum and see how people struggle.

Regarding my post-medication sleep - I do hope I would be able to sleep without the drugs trying no-medication methods.

last two nights sleep was ok, less deep sleep towards the morning, as usual, getting 6-7 hours.

Small anxiety/iritability and a bit of rumination/saddness. Otherwise ok.

 

October 2019 - March 2020 - Trazadone 150 mg

October 2019 - March 2020 - Halcion (triazolamum) 0.25 mg - for sleep

October 2019 - March 2020 - Neurontin (gabapentinum) 300  mg

October 2019 - March 2020 - Lamictal ??

October 2019 - March 2021 - Fluanxol 1 mg

June 2020 - April 2021 - escitalopram 10 mg

March 2020 - April 2021 - Lorafen (lorazepam) 2.5 mg

March 2020 - 16.06.2021 100 mg Quetiapine, 16.06.2021. -16.07.2021 90 mg Q, 16.07.2021 - 12.08.2021 85.5 mg Q, 13.08.2021 - 09.09.2021 77.0 mg Q, 10.09.2021 - current 69.3 mg Q

 

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  • Moderator

That sounds good @EveningMuffin. I think once people get to this stage they all are very impatient to get off the drug. I know I was. But getting off too quickly can be a huge mistake you regret for years. You are doing great, having reduced more than 30% and still sleeping 6-7 hours. Just need to keep it up

: ). I think more frequent, smaller reductions are probably easier for the body to handle, anyway. 

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

Sleep has definitely become not so deep and I am waking up few times during the night.

Duration roughly the same though. The hangover and drugged feeling in the morning is definitely less or almost non-existent. Either I have become used to Q or the smaller dosage works better.

I have read that the smaller dose of Q the stronger the sedative effect should be but I have not felt it that way.

To deepen the sleep I will try to wean me off the caffeine - I do coffee in the morning only, but 3-4 coffee cups could be too much.

I was off caffeine once many years ago for 3 years. Honestly, I don't remember that I slept better without coffee. I do remember I had unpleasant withdrawal symptoms for 8 - 10 days without coffee. I did CT then. And I am not sure I would like those symptoms felt again.

 

October 2019 - March 2020 - Trazadone 150 mg

October 2019 - March 2020 - Halcion (triazolamum) 0.25 mg - for sleep

October 2019 - March 2020 - Neurontin (gabapentinum) 300  mg

October 2019 - March 2020 - Lamictal ??

October 2019 - March 2021 - Fluanxol 1 mg

June 2020 - April 2021 - escitalopram 10 mg

March 2020 - April 2021 - Lorafen (lorazepam) 2.5 mg

March 2020 - 16.06.2021 100 mg Quetiapine, 16.06.2021. -16.07.2021 90 mg Q, 16.07.2021 - 12.08.2021 85.5 mg Q, 13.08.2021 - 09.09.2021 77.0 mg Q, 10.09.2021 - current 69.3 mg Q

 

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  • Moderator

Sounds good @EveningMuffin. Caffeine is definitely working against you if you are trying to get your brain to adapt to life without the drug. I would argue that no one on a psychotropic that has sedative effects should be drinking caffeinated coffee, very self-defeating and potentially harmful. There is a bit of research showing that caffeine may be neurotoxic itself and seems to enhance the neurotoxicity of sedative, anesthetic and anti-epileptic drugs (SAD). Although Quetiapine is not in this classification of drug, I don't think I would want to chance that it may have a similar synergistic interaction with caffeine. And you're right, important to wean slowly off the caffeine. 

 

The Quetiapine is sedating at lower doses but I don't know that it gets less sedating as you get higher...The histamine receptors are the first on the cascade to become saturated, since Quetiapine has the highest affinity for the H1 (histamine) receptor. Once that is relatively full, it does not bind there quite as preferentially and moves on to other receptors, as explained energetically by this typically deranged psychiatrist in a blog post from 2007.

Edited by DataGuy

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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Hello @EveningMuffin I’m new here and have been following your seroquel tapering journey and insomnia with interest as I was prescribed Quertiapine as an off-label sleep aid. I have reduced to 50mg now and holding. 

Well done for coming this far.

I decided to come off caffeine about 18 months ago by slowly swapping out caffeinated coffee grinds for decaffinated coffee grinds in my daily brew. It worked a treat with no withdrawal symptoms at all and I still get to enjoy the coffee ritual and taste. I’d be mindful of doing anything too drastic as I am learning how raw and sensitive our nervous system has become and you don’t want to do anything to disturb it. While not the complete solution I believe the quality of my sleep is much deeper without the caffeine in my system.

Wishing you all the best and deep sleepy nights.

 

 

1990 - 2004 citalopram 2010 lexapro 2016 DIY taper off lexapro 2016 Pristiq
Oct 2020 - Jan 2021 DIY taper off Pristiq 100mg to 25mg
Feb 2021 Pristiq 100mg + Seroquel 100mg
March 2021 began taper of Pristiq to 0mg 06/21
June 2021 Seroquel taper 25mg at a time

4th August - 18th August 15mg of Mirtazapine - Came straight off.

August 2021 50mg Seroquel

 

Morning - Cognisense, Vitamin C & Fish Oil

Evening - Magnesium & Fish Oil

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@DataGuy - thanks your input, as usual, very helpful and encouraging.

I agree, I get this kind of feeling that coffee is self-defeating, as you put it right. I'm starting to feel the same about the coffee I had many years ago (25 years already, in fact...time is running... sigh) about smoking - I was smoking and feeling stupid doing so. It helped me to finally stop the habit, CT, but I was ready to stop. Not smoking for 26 years already.

I do hope that you are feeling better yourself too, thanks for the support indeed.

@sacredohana, thanks your feedback about your experience with getting off of the coffee. I will try mixing initially as well. And congratulations on dropping to 50 mg! I'm looking forward to that number as well. It would be a kind of milestone number for me. How do you sleep on 50 mg comparing to 100 mg? Do you stay on 50 mg waiting for the sleep to improve? I see you are on quetiapine not very long.

Wishing you both all the best!

October 2019 - March 2020 - Trazadone 150 mg

October 2019 - March 2020 - Halcion (triazolamum) 0.25 mg - for sleep

October 2019 - March 2020 - Neurontin (gabapentinum) 300  mg

October 2019 - March 2020 - Lamictal ??

October 2019 - March 2021 - Fluanxol 1 mg

June 2020 - April 2021 - escitalopram 10 mg

March 2020 - April 2021 - Lorafen (lorazepam) 2.5 mg

March 2020 - 16.06.2021 100 mg Quetiapine, 16.06.2021. -16.07.2021 90 mg Q, 16.07.2021 - 12.08.2021 85.5 mg Q, 13.08.2021 - 09.09.2021 77.0 mg Q, 10.09.2021 - current 69.3 mg Q

 

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  • Mentor

 

Hi, just be aware that  chemicals used in the decaffeination process can be a trigger for migraines in many healthy people so if you make the change over and you don't do well, it may be best to make a regular cup and just drink half of it to wean off the caffeine.  If you don't notice any side effects, other than the ones listed, you should be ok.

 

I suppose with everything else, as the one article says, it's just best to go with the organic and not risk adding another toxin for your WD symptoms to have to deal with.  Good luck!

 

Is Decaffeinated Coffee Bad for You? - Consumer Reports

 

5 Unexpected Side Effects Of Decaf Coffee You Must Be Aware Of (stylecraze.com)

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs  8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) 6/28/21: Compound started" 0.12mgs 2X day, 8/2921: 0.22mgs, 

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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@Colonialgood call regarding the decaf. I've also read that coffee in general is susceptible to toxins and mould and yes agree! - high grade organic all the way!

 

@EveningMuffinthanks for the encouragement. Know that I am here by your side on your journey to 50mg and beyond. 

 

I DIY dropped from 100mg to 50mg not quite knowing what I was doing. Now I am stabilising here until sleep and mood improves. Complicated by a too fast taper off an AD - Pristiq. I am working with a sleep coach that has helped somewhat and involves CBT and some sleep restriction techniques such as creating a "sleep window" that more accurately reflects the amount of sleep you are getting.  For weeks I have had one good night followed by a bad night. I have just had 2 nights of good sleep in a row so fingers crossed things are settling.  I have to be very protective of my environment and am super sensitive to stress to the point of zero tolerance.  I can't wait for a time where I can be more carefree.  If you are interested here is the link to the sleep coach...he has some great tips and videos on you tube...https://insomniacoach.com/

1990 - 2004 citalopram 2010 lexapro 2016 DIY taper off lexapro 2016 Pristiq
Oct 2020 - Jan 2021 DIY taper off Pristiq 100mg to 25mg
Feb 2021 Pristiq 100mg + Seroquel 100mg
March 2021 began taper of Pristiq to 0mg 06/21
June 2021 Seroquel taper 25mg at a time

4th August - 18th August 15mg of Mirtazapine - Came straight off.

August 2021 50mg Seroquel

 

Morning - Cognisense, Vitamin C & Fish Oil

Evening - Magnesium & Fish Oil

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