Sunflower414: medicated at age 7, now 27

[Sunflower414]

Hi @Grateful I’m hanging in there. How are you? 

[Greatful]

@Sunflower414  Thank you for letting me know that you are hanging on like the rest of us. 

I was worried about you. I really know how hard this is. 

Me, I had about 7 hrs yesterday that I felt about 50% normal.  Then things slow moved the rest of the day and through the night moved back to barely functioning again😥

The small ray of sunshine showed me that my brain is healing and if I can feel 1/2 way normal once, it will happen again.

You've had the same experience, so know that you are healing too❤️

 

 

[Sunflower414]

31 minutes ago, Greatful said:

@Sunflower414  Thank you for letting me know that you are hanging on like the rest of us. 

I was worried about you. I really know how hard this is. 

Me, I had about 7 hrs yesterday that I felt about 50% normal.  Then things slow moved the rest of the day and through the night moved back to barely functioning again😥

The small ray of sunshine showed me that my brain is healing and if I can feel 1/2 way normal once, it will happen again.

You've had the same experience, so know that you are healing too❤️

 

 

thank you — I’m glad you had that small window 🤍

 

I have decreased 2.5% every two weeks since the last time we spoke and I am now at 14.2mg. The last cut was hard for 10 days and then got easier so I’m hoping that happens again. Unfortunately during my monthly cycle things are horrific and that’s where I’m at now. Hoping things get better again.

 

I know I am not helping myself by worrying about how I will ever get off if I can barely do a 2.5% reduction at a time. I also think back to the one year I was off all meds (at age 20) and how horrific it was. 

[Greatful]

@Sunflower414

13 minutes ago, Sunflower414 said:

I have decreased 2.5% every two weeks since the last time we spoke and I am now at 14.2mg. The last cut was hard for 10 days and then got easier so I’m hoping that happens again.

Wow you are doing great with the 2.5% cuts. I would get hit and I wait for about 20-25 days. Please do some holds in there to slow down WD.  From what I have read here, to fast a taper can do a stack up and send into a very hard WD.

 

22 minutes ago, Sunflower414 said:

I know I am not helping myself by worrying about how I will ever get off if I can barely do a 2.5% reduction at a time. I also think back to the one year I was off all meds (at age 20) and how horrific it was. 

I can relate to wondering how we will do off meds and how long it will take to get of them.

I try to refocus to the here and now.  None of us know the future that is in front of us.  You are in a different time in your life, learning coping skills, dealing with any personal issues so don't sell yourself short just yet.  Work through each stage as it comes.  Are you getting outside help at all, therapy etc.  

 

Have you started to notice any clarity to your memories?  Now that I am on less meds I find that my brain is clearer and memories are clearer. I am actually have flashback, some are happy and some are scary. There is hope that once the brain heals more and is not under the influence of all the foreign chemicals you will be singing a different tone.❤️ 

 

You should update your signature,  the mods like to have it up and ready for them when they need to assist you.

[Sunflower414]

11 minutes ago, Greatful said:

@Sunflower414

Wow you are doing great with the 2.5% cuts. I would get hit and I wait for about 20-25 days. Please do some holds in there to slow down WD.  From what I have read here, to fast a taper can do a stack up and send into a very hard WD.

 

I can relate to wondering how we will do off meds and how long it will take to get of them.

I try to refocus to the here and now.  None of us know the future that is in front of us.  You are in a different time in your life, learning coping skills, dealing with any personal issues so don't sell yourself short just yet.  Work through each stage as it comes.  Are you getting outside help at all, therapy etc.  

 

Have you started to notice any clarity to your memories?  Now that I am on less meds I find that my brain is clearer and memories are clearer. I am actually have flashback, some are happy and some are scary. There is hope that once the brain heals more and is not under the influence of all the foreign chemicals you will be singing a different tone.❤️ 

 

You should update your signature,  the mods like to have it up and ready for them when they need to assist you.

Thank you so much. I don’t notice much difference with my memory but I never felt like I had a big issue with that. However I do feel like my emotions are very strong. When someone would be sad I am extremely sad or when someone will be happy it’s a little bit crazy! Thank you very much I may have to slow down there tapering process but I just know this is going to take years and it makes me upset. How do I edit that?

[Greatful]

@Sunflower414

If you are talking about the your signature.  Go to the top of your page/screen you will see your name hi down arrow , go to account settings and  then  way on the left side ,signature  when you are done you have to hit save.  

 

We will get off these drugs❤️

[Sunflower414]

Thank you @Grateful I can’t find it it must be because I’m on my phone. 
 

I notice your signature says you take a few supplements. Do you find these help??

[Sunflower414]

@Altostrata

 

I have been tapering the 2.5% every 2-3 weeks and it seems to be going "okay"

 

Would you recommend continuing this way of tapering, doing the brassmonkey, or trying 10% per month?

[getofflex]

22 minutes ago, Sunflower414 said:

I have been tapering the 2.5% every 2-3 weeks and it seems to be going "okay"

 

Would you recommend continuing this way of tapering, doing the brassmonkey, or trying 10% per month?

I know you asked for Alto's opinion, but I'll go ahead and throw in my 2 cents worth.  

 

In the past, you have shown evidence that your nervous system is pretty sensitized.  The 2.5% every 2-3 weeks seems to be working, so if it were me, I would stick with that.  That is gentler than doing a 10% reduction. Also, the brassmonkey method does the 2.5% taper every week, and that is faster than what you are doing now.  

 

I understand how frustrating it is to have to wean off these drugs so slowly, but that is the best way to do it. I've seen too many people taper too fast, and end up with severe WD, then end up jumping back on the drugs, which is counterproductive.  As the old saying goes, slow and steady wins the race.  

[Sunflower414]

6 minutes ago, getofflex said:

I know you asked for Alto's opinion, but I'll go ahead and throw in my 2 cents worth.  

 

In the past, you have shown evidence that your nervous system is pretty sensitized.  The 2.5% every 2-3 weeks seems to be working, so if it were me, I would stick with that.  That is gentler than doing a 10% reduction. Also, the brassmonkey method does the 2.5% taper every week, and that is faster than what you are doing now.  

 

I understand how frustrating it is to have to wean off these drugs so slowly, but that is the best way to do it. I've seen too many people taper too fast, and end up with severe WD, then end up jumping back on the drugs, which is counterproductive.  As the old saying goes, slow and steady wins the race.  

Thank you! I appreciate your opinion - as I am unsure who to tag I appreciate you giving me this information.

My concern is starting at a 2.5% reduction every 2-3 weeks then thinking "oh maybe I can go faster" then it back firing. I'm not sure if it's worth it to try the brassmonkey or a 10% taper NOW or wait a while. Thanks for your help.

 

Also, I am tapering by measuring with a jewelry scale. Do you think finding a compounding pharmacy is more helpful? Do you know how this process works... does my psychiatrist have to contact that pharmacy?

last question - do you recommend I try adding omega 3 or magnesium?

 

Thank you! 

[getofflex]

5 minutes ago, Sunflower414 said:

Also, I am tapering by measuring with a jewelry scale. Do you think finding a compounding pharmacy is more helpful? Do you know how this process works... does my psychiatrist have to contact that pharmacy?

We recommend using a gemini 20 scale, which precisely measures small amounts:  

 

Using a Scale to Weigh and Measure Doses

 

I'm not sure how the compounding pharmacy process works.  This link should help: 

 

Compounding Pharmacies

 

9 minutes ago, Sunflower414 said:

last question - do you recommend I try adding omega 3 or magnesium?

Yes, I do.  Try one at a time, and start with a small dose to see how it affects you.  Please read these links for info on the best types of magnesium and omega 3, and how to take them. 

Magnesium

 

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

 

 

 

[Sunflower414]

18 minutes ago, getofflex said:

We recommend using a gemini 20 scale, which precisely measures small amounts:  

 

Using a Scale to Weigh and Measure Doses

 

I'm not sure how the compounding pharmacy process works.  This link should help: 

 

Compounding Pharmacies

 

Yes, I do.  Try one at a time, and start with a small dose to see how it affects you.  Please read these links for info on the best types of magnesium and omega 3, and how to take them. 

Magnesium

 

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

 

 

 

Thank you. 

Do you have a specific recommendation of magnesium? I don't know how to figure out what is best. I am in the US.

[Greatful]

@Sunflower414

I take magnesium Glycinate, it comes in 100mg capsules and I pour about 1/2 the capsule in water, drink it down, I do this about several times a day.  Generally around 200mg a day sometimes more. I take Omego 3's too.  

 

How are you doing today?  I see you were able to edit your signature.❤️

 

 

[Sunflower414]

1 minute ago, Greatful said:

@Sunflower414

I take magnesium Glycinate, it comes in 100mg capsules and I pour about 1/2 the capsule in water, drink it down, I do this about several times a day.  Generally around 200mg a day sometimes more. I take Omego 3's too.  

 

How are you doing today?  I see you were able to edit your signature.❤️

 

 

Do you find they help? Do you know what brand magnesium you take? 
 

today was eh. I stayed in bed until 2 pm but got myself out of bed and to the store and on a short walk. How are you doing? 🤍

[Greatful]

@Sunflower414

I order mine off of Amazon  Nested Magnesium Glycinate Chelate.

  Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega  1280mg of Omega  (EPA 650 DHA 450)  2 gels are a serving size, I think I should up it though according to SA I should be taking up to 2000-3000mg of EPA- DHA  I bought vitamin E also but haven't started that yet.  I do take a probiotic also.

I do think the mag. helps.  Most of the time it will take the edge off, I usually take some in the early mornings between 4am and 6am to help with the morning anxiety.  I can be okay all night and then around 4or 5 the anxiety, rumination starts.  When the anxiety is bad not as noticeable.  That is why I am slowly upping it.

Other than that who knows what is what in WD. 

How long have you been taking CBD?  Do you feel like it is helping you?

I am going to start with some lavender oil and peppermint oil.  Lavender for anxiety and peppermint for my ears and the noise sensitivity. I guess it can help with tinnitus.

 

My days can fluctuate on a dime.  One big roller-coaster ride.  I did have a nice little window Wednesday morning until around 3pm.  Not symptoms free by any means but at least I felt good.  But we are healing everyday.❤️   

[Sunflower414]

Thanks @Grateful

 

i will check out that magnesium. I’m worried about adding anything. How did you decide on the brand and mg? 
 

im going super slow with the CBD. I’m only taking 4 drops a day (less than 5mg and people normally start at 50mg) and i noticed a better day the first day. It’s been three weeks. I will up it next week! 
 

I use essential oils all day! Are you in the US? What brand do you like? I use

young living. The deep relief roll on has been a lifesaver for me

[Greatful]

@Sunflower414

I just took a stab in the dark on picking out brand for the supplements.

I just bought  Eden's Garden essential oil off of Amazon.  I don't know how well they work but I will give them a try.  Do you know how to mix them with oil to rub on.

 

I live in Minnesota.  

 

My son uses CBD oil and has offered me some, but like you I am afraid to try things. He researched it and feels he has found a good manufacture out of Colorado.  

[Sunflower414]

Very nice @Grateful

 

i am using Lazarus CBD. I’ll have to look up that magnesium. And yes - you use a carrier oil. I like coconut oil or you can use really any oil!

[Greatful]

@Sunflower414

How many drops to how much coconut oil

[Sunflower414]

@Grateful I don’t really measure lol! Just a little bit of each

[Altostrata]

Agree with @getofflex, you found a tapering method that works with Paxil, which is extraordinarily difficult to taper. I'd leave well enough alone. 

 

In fact, because it's so difficult to taper at lower dosages, I suggest you be mentally prepared to reduce by even smaller amounts when you get to around 5mg.

 

Paroxetine comes in a prescription liquid, or you can make your own. It will be a lot easier to taper with a liquid, especially at lower doses. 

[Sunflower414]

14 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Agree with @getofflex, you found a tapering method that works with Paxil, which is extraordinarily difficult to taper. I'd leave well enough alone. 

 

In fact, because it's so difficult to taper at lower dosages, I suggest you be mentally prepared to reduce by even smaller amounts when you get to around 5mg.

 

Paroxetine comes in a prescription liquid, or you can make your own. It will be a lot easier to taper with a liquid, especially at lower doses. 

 @Altostrata at this rate it would take my 6 years to get off… and I’ve already been doing this for 2. How does one accept they will feel miserable and be tapering for that long when there’s still a possibility even after they get off they’ll be miserable? 

[Altostrata]

How do you feel miserable?

 

A month ago, you realized you had been taking paroxetine, a very difficult drug, on an inconsistent schedule. Did you get your drug schedule stabilized?

 

I recommended this:

 

On 10/21/2021 at 8:23 PM, Altostrata said:

After a period of instability, you may need to stay at a consistent dose for a good long time, probably months, before attempting to taper.

 

And you've been tapering anyway?

 

How long did you take one dose on a consistent schedule before you started tapering again? How did your symptom pattern change while you held the dosage steady?

 

Do you feel miserable in the way you did when you were taking paroxetine on an inconsistent schedule, or do you feel miserable in a different way?

 

Please stop tapering for the time being.

[Sunflower414]

@Altostrata 

 

its similar - a lot of my “miserable” feelings come from feeling upset and worried about the situation, angry I was put on this, the worry it will take years, the worry I will never get off, how much this has effected my life, etc. then on top of that feeling overall irritated, sad, anxious 24/7. I had already held at 15mg for 9 months. I’m sure you understand feeling upset and wanting to get off something you can’t just stop. Sleeping a ton and body is sore constantly. I don’t feel any worse than I did before tapering. Similar but slightly better maybe then before. I fear if I wait until I feel “ready” to taper… that I never will.

[Altostrata]

What did you do about your paroxetine schedule?

 

If you've been destabilizing your nervous system for a long time by not taking paroxetine regularly, if you don't allow it time to stabilize, tapering will destabilize it further. 

 

I am not exaggerating when I say paroxetine is a very difficult drug. It may be the most difficult antidepressant to taper. If you start out with a destabilized nervous system, paroxetine withdrawal symptoms could make this a lot worse.

 

3 minutes ago, Sunflower414 said:

a lot of my “miserable” feelings come from feeling upset and worried about the situation, angry I was put on this, the worry it will take years, the worry I will never get off, how much this has effected my life, etc.

 

These are feelings over which you have control, they are a reaction to your situation, not caused by the drug itself. You might benefit from seeing an understanding psychotherapist instead of planning to punish yourself by going off too fast.

[Sunflower414]

@Altostrata thank you. I have been taking the Paxil at the same time daily. I make sure I take it an noon everyday. 
 

I know Paxil is the toughest. Which is why I had so many tries to switch to something else with no success. 
 

how do you know when you are “stable” and your central nervous system can handle The taper? 
 

thanks for all your help. I’ve seen 4 therapists and none believe this is from withdrawal and all pressure me to stay on medications unfortunately 

[Altostrata]

If I were you, I would not talk to a therapist about withdrawal (they usually know nothing about it), but your habits of worry and resentment.

 

What symptoms do you have now that you believe are drug-induced?

 

 

[Sunflower414]

@Altostrata 

 

extreme fatigue 

crying spells 

Muscle jerking (specifically my legs) 

no enjoyment / happiness in anything 

Anxiety constantly - a lot about social interactions / activities / worry about future 

irritable 

 

 

 

I truly believe I have PTSD from the experiences I’ve had regarding medications these past two years, so I’m sure that doesn’t help me anxiety / depression 

[Altostrata]

It was only September 29 that you reported you were taking paroxetine on an inconsistent schedule. You said you had odd symptoms then. 

 

You could not have been taking it consistently for more than a week. Symptoms resulting from inconsistent dosing can take a lot longer than than a week to resolve.

 

Plus you've made another decrease in dosage? What was your last decrease? Suggest you go back to whatever dose you were taking before your last decrease and hold there, taking paroxetine on a very consistent schedule, for at least several months or more, until these symptoms go away.

[Sunflower414]

Thank you @Altostrata for your help & suggestions. 
 

where is the line between taking the medication you know is harming you, and slowly tapering? 
 

If I wait several months to begin tapering again, this will take more than 6 or so years… and I’ve already been doing it for 2 years. I struggle holding and waiting after I already did a 8 month hold 

[Sunflower414]

@Altostrata@getofflex

 

Do you believe healing is possible while stilll on the drugs? Do you think there’s a point where you cannot heal? 
 

I’ve been on these drugs since I was a child. I worry I cannot recover. I have no idea what’s me or what’s the withdrawal. I don’t know if I will survive this. 
 

im so lost 

[Altostrata]

Please be aware that much of the difficulty you've had on paroxetine may be from your taking it inconsistently for a long time.

 

Stabilizing on one dose taken consistently at the same time will, hopefully, reduce those symptoms.

 

Since you've been taking the drug for such a long time, and it's such a difficult drug to taper, you might think of gradually tapering off as a long-term project. I'm sorry it will take a long time.

 

The alternative is going too fast and coping with withdrawal symptoms, which also could last years. You are in a difficult position.

 

But first, you have to stop taking paroxetine inconsistently and changing the dosage.

[getofflex]

I agree 100% with Altostrata.  I believe that if you take a very consistent dose every day at the same time, and don't change it for a while, you can gradually heal and stabilize.  Then I would try a very slow and cautious taper.  It has taken me over 4 years to get off my Lexapro (my drug sig was too long so I don't show the first few years), and now I'm 60 years old, but it is what it is.  Try to take a big picture view of this.  If you try to rush your taper, or take the drug inconsistently, it will probably take even longer to get off the drug in the long run, and you will have a lot more pain and discomfort.  Try reading this link:  

 

https://www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/radical_acceptance_text.html

Edited November 6, 2021 by getofflex

[Sunflower414]

Thank you @Altostrata and @getofflex I appreciate your responses when I feel like I have no one to go to. You are both so special and a God send. 
 

I am going to read that link. I will continue with this dosage at the same time daily and will pray it gives me some relief.

 

with it being a long term project, how do you accept this? How do you help yourself from worrying 247 about the situation and what could happen? I am also sleeping so much and always exhausted. Do you recommend I let myself sleep or force myself to wake up? 
 

thank you both so much. I pray I will heal. After your four year taper @getofflex do you feel better? 

[getofflex]

The link will help you accept this.  It will reduce your pain when you accept it.  My way of not worrying about things is to place them in the Lords Hands, trust that He will take care of it, and let it go.   Easier said than done. Some days when my brain is in chaos I can’t stop worrying and other days I’m able to let stuff go.  Prayer really helps and Bible reading too.

 

go ahead and allow yourself to sleep.  Many of us would envy your ability to sleep because we can’t sleep. Insomnia was my worst symptoms.  I still have it some times.

 

yes I’m gradually feeling better and better but still have up and downs.  But overal I’m quite better than I was in early recovery.  Yesterday I had a wave but feel fine today.  I think it has to do with PTSD and stress in my life.   You will get better too!  The keys are time patience and being tough enough to sit with discomfort.  

[Greatful]

@Sunflower414

I am scared too.  It is even harder to process things when your brain doesn't work right.  

As things settle down and you have days were you can think better you will see that you are going to do this on day at a time.  Really how can you do it any different. Tomorrow isn't here yet.

God is my strength, I could never do this on my own.

 

@getofflex really has some helpful thoughts on this.

And I also agree with sleeping.  I would love to be able to sleep away this nightmare.  That's not to say you are not struggling in WD.  This is tough all the way around.  

Remember to love and take care of yourself.  Throw out any expectations you put on yourself.  Do what ever it takes to get through each and everyday.

Time and the days will march onward and one day you will be through this and will be who you want to be.❤️

 

By the way how many times a day and how much each time, do you rub on of the oils?