Oaktree1: tapering from Remeron while dealing with Cymbalta withdrawal

January 14, 2022

Keep fighting, feel the pain and let the pain out......As you know emotions are morphed in WD.

Do you see a therapist?

Hang in there and take it one day at a time.❤️

January 14, 2022

Thanks for the update @Oaktree1

W/d is unbelievable, it is so challenging. In my experience, the rage feelings and intense reactions to threat (perceived, or imagined) are horribly exaggerated and inflamed during this time. Very hard to stand back and observe the storm, though I know it helps. I hope you can just plain hunker down, rest, and find some peace. You've been going through such a lot--

All my best to you 💜

Arbor

January 27, 2022

On 1/14/2022 at 2:22 AM, Overwhelmedlady said:

.I have just read what you wrote about anger.It's just an emotion among many others and sometimes it's necessary or let's say natural reaction when you feel that somebody has harmed you. Now if you keep the anger it's not healthy for you .let me say also that anger,many times masks pain.it's a defense mechanism.it happened to me in the past.I know what you are talking about.

Thanks @Overwhelmedlady

I live in the same house with someone who abused me in the past and has gotten away with it. He got away with everything he ever did in his life. Highly respected and liked in the relatively small community I live in. I paid the price - my siblings did too but not so much as me. I got a letter from local mental health unit today - my diagnoses have been reduced to borderline and autism now and the bipolar has been taken off. I had to leave the other place as the electricity and heating were not working and have to be upgraded and I could not afford it. Longterm it's not so good for me - I can't report them - I would not be believed because of my psychiatric labels - I've seen that happen to other people too.. Don't believe there is actually any future for me at this point... out of work for years, no pension, no chance of getting work as over 50...another bad incident last weekend...very shook after it. If I do anything or say anything I can be put back in a mental hospital again like what happened to me in my twenties. The world is a very bad place in my experience and there is little justice in it for those who are weak or vulnerable, children, the poor, those labelled mentally ill, the homeless those scarred by war.. women. I keep going from day to day but I hope no hope now and am only waiting really. I don't really care anymore that I am posting this here in a public forum as I've kind of gone past that stage now.

January 27, 2022

@Oaktree1You sound so sad....I wish I could give a big hug and hold you for awhile.🤗

I carry you in my heart Oaktree......How are you doing in the WD/tapering department?

Please keep talking to us here on SA. We care about you. We may not be able to do much but extend an ear and listen with a caring heart.........❤️

January 28, 2022

Dear @Oaktree1--

It sure doesn't sound good where you're staying. This is a lot of emotional stress at the best of times, let alone when you're withdrawing from these meds. Please know you're in my heart.

11 hours ago, Oaktree1 said:

there is little justice in it for those who are weak or vulnerable, children, the poor, those labelled mentally ill, the homeless those scarred by war.. women. I keep going from day to day but I hope no hope now and am only waiting really.

Stay in touch🙏

Arbor

January 28, 2022

Hi @Oaktree1I have just read your answer. I do not believe in labels .I have already learnt about many people who have been wrongly diagnosed and hence wrongly medicated. I know you ar in the UK and in spite of all the difficulties there are mental health resources you could try to explore. I read about MIND. www.mind.org.uk. is one of them. There is also slamrecoverycollege.co.uk. I remember this guy, who has a quite well known blog,the skint foodie whose story is worth reading ,who recovered and is now working with them. Don't lose hope I am absolutely convinced that there are people out there who can help you get out of that situation. I totally understand this feeling of no future because I feel the same but I also know that very adverse circumstances make it close to impossible to imagine good outcomes. It's ok with me if you post in an open forum.I have done the same.You also have the private messenger in case you should need it. Whatever you choose,we all do it here and it's Fine.I will not refer to personal details,neither will I ask you questions,but just remember this.People who harm others are deeply troubled individuals themselves . The outcome for them,is not a rosy one in most cases.if you were strictly referring to legal consequences,may be you are right but life is long and you never know what the future has in store for them .I do believe in cause and effect. It's a sad story. Please do not lose hope,there might be a tiny road to find that can lead to a different scenario.I tell you this and at the same time I whisper it to myself. Many of us are here if you need support .sending you a big hug and hope to read you soon.🤗🌹

January 28, 2022

Thanks @Overwhelmedlady for your very thoughtful and kind reply.

18 hours ago, Overwhelmedlady said:

Please do not lose hope,there might be a tiny road to find that can lead to a different scenario.I tell you this and at the same time I whisper it to myself.

I know that for you too life is very tough - that is a very evocative way of putting it.

Sadly this person I refer to has had a very easy life and is now at the end of it more or less so no karma for him.

I am not in the UK but the skint foodie site you recommended is fascinating thank you. That person 'Tony' I see does volunteer work with the Maudsley Pyschiatric Hospital - that is where my psychiatrist relative trained - a very posh madhouse.

The tiny road that can lead to a different scenario as you put it is a very good way of putting it. Another more pedestrian way I suppose is to say it is where there's life there's hope... I don't know but I feel comforted by your words and you've done me a good service. I wish the same for you - continued hope and a different scenario.

Oaktree

January 28, 2022

21 hours ago, arbor said:

It sure doesn't sound good where you're staying. This is a lot of emotional stress at the best of times, let alone when you're withdrawing from these meds. Please know you're in my heart

That's putting it mildly @arbor and thanks for your kind wishes. I know you are recuperating from a very nasty episode so thank you for posting. Means a lot

Oaktree

January 28, 2022

On 1/14/2022 at 3:05 PM, Greatful said:

Hang in there and take it one day at a time.❤️

Thanks @Grateful

I wish the same for you; you are sure going through some major drug changes at the moment and riding some roller coasters with withdrawal. I am barely moving with my own taper. Just not able for it psychologically with all the other stuff. I only reduced by .1mg this month. Come February though I am going down by .3mg. I get bad mood drops where I feel dreadful and yesterday I could not stop but post here as I felt so lonely and awful; today it slightly lifted.

Oaktree🌺

January 28, 2022

@GratefulI replied to your previous comment instead of your last one - my brain is not working properly at present-I do feel very sad and but I do feel your hug virtually .

🌺

Oaktree

January 31, 2022

Hi @Oaktree1I tried to send you a message but you can't receive messages.Anyway,I am not sure why I thought you were in the UK.Now Im curious about your location. I was going to ask you via messenger but that's not an option.As regards the skint foodie,I believe the voluntary work was the first stage of his recovery while still on the dole.He's been working for one of these institutions for a while and no longer on benefits from the state. Hope you are feeling slightly better .send you a big hug from the south.🤗

February 2, 2022

Thanks @Overwhelmedlady

I'm next door to the UK but in different country - Ireland. I lived in the UK once and loved it - I don't care for where I live - too many bad experiences there. I got a message from someone else much - I must check it out why that does not work.

I made another reduction yesterday of .3mg - a quite big one. Very itchy today as a result.

I know work would be restorative psychologically. I had four years of job rejections before I succumbed to applying for disability on the advice of my psychiatrist at the time. I don't know if I would even be employable now . I am trying to find an affordable place to live at the moment which is difficult. Thanks so much for keeping in touch - I know you are not posting much for reading and watching things online related to activism in this area- I am doing a lot of that too - gives one a bit of knowledge and hope. I wish you peace and comfort.

Oaktree

February 3, 2022

Thinking of you @Oaktree1 Hope your reduction is not causing too many issues for you.

16 hours ago, Oaktree1 said:

I am trying to find an affordable place to live at the moment which is difficult

This is so challenging--especially while going through w/d. All my best to you❤️

Arbor

February 4, 2022

Hi @Oaktree1I read about other issues as well,not just mental health, but to be honest the more I read about other people's bad experiences with mental health services psychiatry and medication,the more I reject the whole system. I would go as far as to say that the harm caused by these prescribed drugs can even be worse than the one caused by illicit drugs, particularly because it's neither acknowledged nor treated as iatrogenic harm. I am glad you're considering the possibility of finding another place because it will surely bring you some peace and relief. Send you a big hug and hope you feel better.🌹

February 8, 2022

On 2/4/2022 at 4:52 AM, Overwhelmedlady said:

Hi @Oaktree1I read about other issues as well,not just mental health, but to be honest the more I read about other people's bad experiences with mental health services psychiatry and medication,the more I reject the whole system. I would go as far as to say that the harm caused by these prescribed drugs can even be worse than the one caused by illicit drugs, particularly because it's neither acknowledged nor treated as iatrogenic harm

I am with you there. I have been reading and watching videos about psychotropic drugs and the whole system. It makes me feel slightly better. I know how conned I was.

The damage caused by these drugs is worse in my view than that caused by illicit drugs for a few reasons:- there are treatment programmes for illicit drugs; the damage they cause is acknowledged and people with addiction issues are supported and helped; people applaud them for going clean.

People who go off psychotropic drugs however have no real support other than online communities; their experiences are generally disbelieved by their doctors, frequently by their families and by the wider community. They not only have to deal with severe and in many cases long lasting and debilitating health effects from these drugs but they have to deal with the cognitive dissonance of being told that they are relapsing rather than suffering withdrawal They are widely judged as being irresponsible in going off their 'medication' or non compliant. So in addition to damage caused by the drugs, they have to deal more widely with society's denial of their experience and with unjustified moral censure. That represents inhumanity at its finest and is one of the reasons why I have a profound distrust and I have to say at this point dislike of our species in general with a few exceptions.

I am putting the rest of the post here to document some of my past experience:-

I spent four years of my 20's being told I had various lifelong mental health disorders which had to be medicated with drugs. I was a compliant patient. At my first appointment as an out patient, I was given firstly a low dose tricyclic Surmontil along with an anti psychotic. I was told nothing about the anti psychotic except that it was non addictive and great for anxiety. I was 22. I was sleeping and eating well and was not remotely suicidal; I was not psychotic and did not have any 'delusions' or 'hallucinations'. I was failing my college courses and a few months previously had failed to make the grade on an acting course I had set my heart on. I was failing at realising my childhood dreams or ambitions and finding that tough. I was also dealing with loneliness, the difficulties of being an adult and the legacies of childhood abuse and bullying.

I had no somatic or extreme emotional problems that needed blunting with drugs and yet the highly recommended child and adolescent psychiatrist just put me on drugs and did nothing further. There was no mention of my talking to anyone like a counsellor. There was no informed consent to the drugs I was given as he didn't tell me anything about side effects. When I got the prescription filled they used to give the drugs to me in a transparent bag a lot of the time . I recall that I didn't even get the sheet with the side effects on them a lot of the time. When I did occasionally I didn't even bother looking at instructions - I presumed I was in the hands of experts. Every month I would go back to the hospital for a 20 minute appointment based on a checklist of queries with the psychiatrist that most people on this site are probably familiar with - sleep, anxiety level, appetite...it was the same box ticking format each time and coda was the fresh prescription I was handed.

I took the drugs for six months. The only effects they had on me were that I became dopey, chronically constipated, slept 12 hours a day and put on half a stone.

I returned to college six months later and was barely able to get my work done as my head felt like it was full of cotton wool. I started to get back pain at that stage. Eventually I complained to the psychiatrist about the sedation, impaired brain function and weight gain and he said to me 'there's this wonderful new drug that's just come on the market, it's great for weight loss'. That drug was paroxetine (Seroxat). He asked me if I would like to try it. I didn't hesitate. From the first night that I switched drugs I couldn't sleep and remained unable to sleep for six weeks but the weight fell off and I felt marvellous. I was still taking the anti psychotic. The psychiatrist added a sleeping pill so that I could sleep.

For the next nine months I felt amazing. I imagine it's was similar to what cocaine does (I've never taken it). I felt confident, my anxiety around everything including the constant social anxiety I suffered from just melted away. My sedation disappeared and my brain worked fast. I thought I was sorted for life - this was the happy pill that I had been told about, a member of this new wonderful class of drugs that would remove all negative emotions. For the first nine months I didn't have any negative emotions. It was like I was a new person - the person I had been before the severe adverse childhood experiences. I remember a Michael Douglas film where a HR manager said to MIchael Douglas's character something like 'calm down... take a Prozac'. I thought it was that simple.

It was all fine until November of that year. I was lying in bed one night and I remember clearly this thought just popped into my head - 'why don't you kill yourself' I had never been suicidal...ever... until that point. From then on it got worse and worse. The anxiety returned only this time it was worse because for the first time in my entire life I was unable to concentrate; I could not read a book - this had never happened to me before. I I had extreme agitation. My distress was such that I swallowed a bottle of cough medicine.

The response of the psychiatrist was to put me in hospital. The paroxetine was raised in hospital and the agitation became worse. After two weeks of severe akathisia I was sent home suicidal. I was told not to tell anyone at college and was again taken out on medical grounds. I started to cut myself - something I had never done before or since. The psychiatrist once so chummy and comfortable refused to return any of my mother's phone calls begging him for help as at that stage I was actively threatening suicide.

This was just two years into the start of a nightmare that changed the entire course of my life as I was never right after it. I saw people say and do things during that period that destroyed my ability to trust completely. I didn't trust myself afterwards either.

Before all this happened I was in the top three of my class at school; I had been deputy head girl one year; I had a lead role in a school play, captained a debating team and won best speaker in some interschool debates. I had travelled abroad and done a few more plays, sang as an entertainer, and sang as a back up singer in a band.

That person disappeared completely after my years in the psychiatric system. In my bedroom I put the trophy I won for best speaker in 1984 on my mantel piece to remind myself that once upon a time before I became a psychiatric patient I was able to do stuff and thought I was going to have a life.

Of course all any clinician reading this would say is that I had latent bipolar disorder which only came into bloom after I took the Paroxetine. All I can say to that is that I was never suicidal until I took this drug; I never self harmed until I took this drug. What would have happened to me if I had never taken it? If I had had instead access to a decent counselor or a concerned and wise elder adult who might have helped me. None of the life problems that led me to seeing a psychiatrist in the first place were ever dealt with.

I am using this forum to document this and that is why it is such a long post. I am not asking for advice or help on this. It is past and there is nothing I can do about it only document it here thanks to Alto Strata's creation of this site and her and the moderators maintenance of this site.

Maybe one day people will wake up about these drugs and conventional psychiatry although I am doubtful. A lot of bad people have gotten very rich on this stuff but then as an (admittedly poor) student of history which I took for my primary degree bad people are generally the ones who rise to the top and dictate the terms of reality.

I took a look online a while ago on the first psychiatrist who treated me back in the day. He's still on the go - I saw a photograph of him with his colleagues at some function. He looks delighted with himself as do his two colleagues. This man returned not one of my mother's numerous phone calls begging him for help that I was threatening suicide. I remember the biros on his desk advertising Seroxat (Paxil).

As to my current taper, today is day 8 of the 3% cut I made on the 1st February. The itching that started on day 1 stopped on day 7; today I had a slight headache and widespread body pain. Tomorrow marks three years off Cymbalta and I am a year and one month off Seroquel.

As to the future I don't have any hope but for the moment I follow Samuel Beckett line 'I can't go on; I'll go on'. I'm an odd looking mid life woman facing homelessness and poverty but I am still alive as of this evening anyway. We all die eventually even pharma heads and psychiatrists will face eventually their own debility and death. That gives me a lot of comfort.

February 9, 2022

5 hours ago, Oaktree1 said:

I am with you there. I have been reading and watching videos about psychotropic drugs and the whole system. It makes me feel slightly better. I know how conned I was.

The damage caused by these drugs is worse in my view than that caused by illicit drugs for a few reasons:- there are treatment programmes for illicit drugs; the damage they cause is acknowledged and people with addiction issues are supported and helped; people applaud them for going clean.

People who go off psychotropic drugs however have no real support other than online communities; their experiences are generally disbelieved by their doctors, frequently by their families and by the wider community. They not only have to deal with severe and in many cases long lasting and debilitating health effects from these drugs but they have to deal with the cognitive dissonance of being told that they are relapsing rather than suffering withdrawal They are widely judged as being irresponsible in going off their 'medication' or non compliant. So in addition to damage caused by the drugs, they have to deal more widely with society's denial of their experience and with unjustified moral censure. That represents inhumanity at its finest and is one of the reasons why I have a profound distrust and I have to say at this point dislike of our species in general with a few exceptions.

I am putting the rest of the post here to document some of my past experience:-

I spent four years of my 20's being told I had various lifelong mental health disorders which had to be medicated with drugs. I was a compliant patient. At my first appointment as an out patient, I was given firstly a low dose tricyclic Surmontil along with an anti psychotic. I was told nothing about the anti psychotic except that it was non addictive and great for anxiety. I was 22. I was sleeping and eating well and was not remotely suicidal; I was not psychotic and did not have any 'delusions' or 'hallucinations'. I was failing my college courses and a few months previously had failed to make the grade on an acting course I had set my heart on. I was failing at realising my childhood dreams or ambitions and finding that tough. I was also dealing with loneliness, the difficulties of being an adult and the legacies of childhood abuse and bullying.

I had no somatic or extreme emotional problems that needed blunting with drugs and yet the highly recommended child and adolescent psychiatrist just put me on drugs and did nothing further. There was no mention of my talking to anyone like a counsellor. There was no informed consent to the drugs I was given as he didn't tell me anything about side effects. When I got the prescription filled they used to give the drugs to me in a transparent bag a lot of the time . I recall that I didn't even get the sheet with the side effects on them a lot of the time. When I did occasionally I didn't even bother looking at instructions - I presumed I was in the hands of experts. Every month I would go back to the hospital for a 20 minute appointment based on a checklist of queries with the psychiatrist that most people on this site are probably familiar with - sleep, anxiety level, appetite...it was the same box ticking format each time and coda was the fresh prescription I was handed.

I took the drugs for six months. The only effects they had on me were that I became dopey, chronically constipated, slept 12 hours a day and put on half a stone.

I returned to college six months later and was barely able to get my work done as my head felt like it was full of cotton wool. I started to get back pain at that stage. Eventually I complained to the psychiatrist about the sedation, impaired brain function and weight gain and he said to me 'there's this wonderful new drug that's just come on the market, it's great for weight loss'. That drug was paroxetine (Seroxat). He asked me if I would like to try it. I didn't hesitate. From the first night that I switched drugs I couldn't sleep and remained unable to sleep for six weeks but the weight fell off and I felt marvellous. I was still taking the anti psychotic. The psychiatrist added a sleeping pill so that I could sleep.

For the next nine months I felt amazing. I imagine it's was similar to what cocaine does (I've never taken it). I felt confident, my anxiety around everything including the constant social anxiety I suffered from just melted away. My sedation disappeared and my brain worked fast. I thought I was sorted for life - this was the happy pill that I had been told about, a member of this new wonderful class of drugs that would remove all negative emotions. For the first nine months I didn't have any negative emotions. It was like I was a new person - the person I had been before the severe adverse childhood experiences. I remember a Michael Douglas film where a HR manager said to MIchael Douglas's character something like 'calm down... take a Prozac'. I thought it was that simple.

It was all fine until November of that year. I was lying in bed one night and I remember clearly this thought just popped into my head - 'why don't you kill yourself' I had never been suicidal...ever... until that point. From then on it got worse and worse. The anxiety returned only this time it was worse because for the first time in my entire life I was unable to concentrate; I could not read a book - this had never happened to me before. I I had extreme agitation. My distress was such that I swallowed a bottle of cough medicine.

The response of the psychiatrist was to put me in hospital. The paroxetine was raised in hospital and the agitation became worse. After two weeks of severe akathisia I was sent home suicidal. I was told not to tell anyone at college and was again taken out on medical grounds. I started to cut myself - something I had never done before or since. The psychiatrist once so chummy and comfortable refused to return any of my mother's phone calls begging him for help as at that stage I was actively threatening suicide.

This was just two years into the start of a nightmare that changed the entire course of my life as I was never right after it. I saw people say and do things during that period that destroyed my ability to trust completely. I didn't trust myself afterwards either.

Before all this happened I was in the top three of my class at school; I had been deputy head girl one year; I had a lead role in a school play, captained a debating team and won best speaker in some interschool debates. I had travelled abroad and done a few more plays, sang as an entertainer, and sang as a back up singer in a band.

That person disappeared completely after my years in the psychiatric system. In my bedroom I put the trophy I won for best speaker in 1984 on my mantel piece to remind myself that once upon a time before I became a psychiatric patient I was able to do stuff and thought I was going to have a life.

Of course all any clinician reading this would say is that I had latent bipolar disorder which only came into bloom after I took the Paroxetine. All I can say to that is that I was never suicidal until I took this drug; I never self harmed until I took this drug. What would have happened to me if I had never taken it? If I had had instead access to a decent counselor or a concerned and wise elder adult who might have helped me. None of the life problems that led me to seeing a psychiatrist in the first place were ever dealt with.

I am using this forum to document this and that is why it is such a long post. I am not asking for advice or help on this. It is past and there is nothing I can do about it only document it here thanks to Alto Strata's creation of this site and her and the moderators maintenance of this site.

Maybe one day people will wake up about these drugs and conventional psychiatry although I am doubtful. A lot of bad people have gotten very rich on this stuff but then as an (admittedly poor) student of history which I took for my primary degree bad people are generally the ones who rise to the top and dictate the terms of reality.

I took a look online a while ago on the first psychiatrist who treated me back in the day. He's still on the go - I saw a photograph of him with his colleagues at some function. He looks delighted with himself as do his two colleagues. This man returned not one of my mother's numerous phone calls begging him for help that I was threatening suicide. I remember the biros on his desk advertising Seroxat (Paxil).

As to my current taper, today is day 8 of the 3% cut I made on the 1st February. The itching that started on day 1 stopped on day 7; today I had a slight headache and widespread body pain. Tomorrow marks three years off Cymbalta and I am a year and one month off Seroquel.

As to the future I don't have any hope but for the moment I follow Samuel Beckett line 'I can't go on; I'll go on'. I'm an odd looking mid life woman facing homelessness and poverty but I am still alive as of this evening anyway.  We all die eventually even pharma heads and psychiatrists will face eventually their own debility and death. That gives me a lot of comfort.

You are so right on everything you say… no one warns you about dangers of ADs (on the contrary my doctor told me they age beneficial and safe drugs) and no one will say “she is suffering from AD withdrawal, she needs time and support”. Pharma heads and psychiatrists have caused much suffering and I believe one day they ll pay the price of what they have done. I have stop counting the times I have heard doctors telling me “it’s not Zoloft , there was an underlying illness that brought all these symptoms “ while I had none absolutely none of my current symptoms before zoloft. They see the suffering these poisons cause and yet they prefer to justify it by attributing it to other causes, it is too hard to admit they went to medical school for years to just end up prescribing drugs that destroy lives. We are their victims, suffering day after day but are souls are pure …. Their drugs haven’t touched them ….

February 9, 2022

7 hours ago, JesusSavemefromWD said:

You are so right on everything you say… no one warns you about dangers of ADs (on the contrary my doctor told me they age beneficial and safe drugs) and no one will say “she is suffering from AD withdrawal, she needs time and support”. Pharma heads and psychiatrists have caused much suffering and I believe one day they ll pay the price of what they have done. I have stop counting the times I have heard doctors telling me “it’s not Zoloft , there was an underlying illness that brought all these symptoms “ while I had none absolutely none of my current symptoms before zoloft. They see the suffering these poisons cause and yet they prefer to justify it by attributing it to other causes, it is too hard to admit they went to medical school for years to just end up prescribing drugs that destroy lives. We are their victims, suffering day after day but are souls are pure …. Their drugs haven’t touched them ….

Yes - you're right they're invested in the whole system. When you have gone through an expensive and rigorous'though largely fraudulent training and you have a nice life and the status of a being a medical expert, taking a stand that might deprive you of that is too much to ask of most people even in the face of the evidence.

I suppose I can understand that a bit.. no one wants to risk social disenfranchisement and all that that entails. Very few people want to admit that they've trained in a specialty that is ****. Two of my immediate family of origin have had very affluent lives out of it. One of them travels widely; at least until Covid hit; he has several properties and enjoys the enhanced social status that being a consultant provides. Why would you give that up?

I suppose also that psychiatrists are so inured to seeing their patients as broken people both from their training and their clinical practice that they genuinely might not see their patients' perceptions as trustworthy. Perhaps if I had been trained in that specialty I might be the same.

February 10, 2022

17 hours ago, Oaktree1 said:

Yes - you're right they're invested in the whole system. When you have gone through an expensive and rigorous'though largely fraudulent training and you have a nice life and the status of a being a medical expert, taking a stand that might deprive you of that is too much to ask of most people even in the face of the evidence.

I suppose I can understand that a bit.. no one wants to risk social disenfranchisement and all that that entails. Very few people want to admit that they've trained in a specialty that is ****. Two of my immediate family of origin have had very affluent lives out of it. One of them travels widely; at least until Covid hit; he has several properties and enjoys the enhanced social status that being a consultant provides. Why would you give that up?

I suppose also that psychiatrists are so inured to seeing their patients as broken people both from their training and their clinical practice that they genuinely might not see their patients' perceptions as trustworthy. Perhaps if I had been trained in that specialty I might be the same.

There is no excuse for the harm they have caused. They need to have their eyes and ears open and put patients above their ego. Dr Shipko is a psychiatrist well respected and still he has openly spoken of the dangers of these drugs. I wish my stupid doctor had done this for me. I asked repeatedly if these drugs are safe and was told how safe and mild Zoloft is and that the only possible site effect is diarrhea and nausea. 15 months after I trusted this doctor I am a bedridden vegetable….. if I had been told about long lasting site effects even if rare i wouldn’t have taken the risk of these drugs. I only had some chest tightness for God s sake. It’s like someone goes to the doctor complaining for headaches and gets pills that take the headaches away but give brain tumour as a side effect. No excuse for the suffering they have caused and do not even admit it ….
How are you feeling these days? What is your worst symptom? Mine is dpdr and Akathisia but if the dpdr would lift i would be able to function cause my Akathisia lasts about 4-6 hrs per day and then completely stops

February 10, 2022

4 hours ago, JesusSavemefromWD said:

They need to have their eyes and ears open and put patients above their ego. Dr Shipko is a psychiatrist well respected and still he has openly spoken of the dangers of these drugs. I wish my stupid doctor had done this for me. I asked repeatedly if these drugs are safe and was told how safe and mild Zoloft is and that the only possible site effect is diarrhea and nausea. 15 months after I trusted this doctor I am a bedridden vegetable….. if I had been told about long lasting site effects even if rare i wouldn’t have taken the risk of these drugs.

I am glad that the world occasionally produces people like Dr Shipko and I am totally in your corner. Like yourself I trusted the doctors too. What has happened to a highly functioning person like you were before you took this drugs is ...I don't know what to say what it is....sometimes things are indescribable. I never made an informed consent to anything I took and I was so bamboozled by their authority that it took me a long time to see the damage the drugs were doing. You would think that I would have had the cop not to go back on the drugs either but I did so 12 years after getting off all drugs later for insomnia and fibromyalgia (another made up medical diagnosis with no bio markers)

I think a lot of them or at least the ones I met genuinely believed in the drugs. Then I saw an online meeting in which Mark Horowitz was speaking on the Medicating Normal site on Youtube. He said that many of the GP's are not told about the dangers of the drugs but that the guys at the top are aware of the real situation. I tried attaching the link below to the meeting- you may have already seen it. That's it really - it comes down to power at the end of the day - they have it and patients don't. They probably rationalise what they're doing to themselves and if they don't they're psychopathic.

As to the withdrawal from the last drop - I had itchy skin for the first four days and for the last three days the itchiness (pruritis they call it) was gone and instead muscle cramps (myalgia I think they call it); slight nausea, sore throat and tiredness. I have calculated my taper schedule based on the withdrawals I have experienced so far and based on the hyperbolic taper methodology and I am looking at a three year taper. I can't see any other way around that.

The only good news I have to report is that the protracted withdrawal from Cymbalta after three years off seems to have resolved or at least I am getting a window. The Cymbalta withdrawal caused akathisia, insomnia and severe suicidal ideation. I could not read a book or concentrate - now I am able to read and concentrate a bit better - that is some improvement. I am calmer.. that is something.

I am hoping that there will be a turn in the road for you and a gradual improvement of your symptoms. That is what they all say in the video above - time and the waiting game seems to be the only thing.

Oaktree

February 10, 2022

11 hours ago, Oaktree1 said:

I am glad that the world occasionally produces people like Dr Shipko and I am totally in your corner. Like yourself I trusted the doctors too. What has happened to a highly functioning person like you were before you took this drugs is ...I don't know what to say what it is....sometimes things are indescribable. I never made an informed consent to anything I took and I was so bamboozled by their authority that it took me a long time to see the damage the drugs were doing. You would think that I would have had the cop not to go back on the drugs either but I did so 12 years after getting off all drugs later for insomnia and fibromyalgia (another made up medical diagnosis with no bio markers)

I think a lot of them or at least the ones I met genuinely believed in the drugs. Then I saw an online meeting in which Mark Horowitz was speaking on the Medicating Normal site on Youtube. He said that many of the GP's are not told about the dangers of the drugs but that the guys at the top are aware of the real situation. I tried attaching the link below to the meeting- you may have already seen it. That's it really - it comes down to power at the end of the day - they have it and patients don't. They probably rationalise what they're doing to themselves and if they don't they're psychopathic.

As to the withdrawal from the last drop - I had itchy skin for the first four days and for the last three days the itchiness (pruritis they call it) was gone and instead muscle cramps (myalgia I think they call it); slight nausea, sore throat and tiredness. I have calculated my taper schedule based on the withdrawals I have experienced so far and based on the hyperbolic taper methodology and I am looking at a three year taper. I can't see any other way around that.

The only good news I have to report is that the protracted withdrawal from Cymbalta after three years off seems to have resolved or at least I am getting a window. The Cymbalta withdrawal caused akathisia, insomnia and severe suicidal ideation. I could not read a book or concentrate - now I am able to read and concentrate a bit better - that is some improvement. I am calmer.. that is something.

I am hoping that there will be a turn in the road for you and a gradual improvement of your symptoms. That is what they all say in the video above - time and the waiting game seems to be the only thing.

Oaktree

I am glad to hear that your cymbalta WD symptoms are fainting. Thank you for your wishes for my recovery. If someone goes over my thread they ll probably think I am exaggerating….. I wish I was….. but it’s true I am completely disabled with minor improvements over the 15 months of this suffering which give me hope for future healing . One thing is for sure, I ll never find a place in my heart to justify or forgive what doctors did to me…..

February 10, 2022

@Oaktree1Oh oaktree you are amazing. the wd from Cymbalta is finally subsiding......that's great.......You're going to get off of the Remeron too. You have more courage then you know.

I see you do a lot of research about these drugs........It does give you a motivation to keep putting one step in front of the other.......

Hang in there❤️

February 13, 2022

Oaktree, I have read some of your thread, but cannot read much due to my lack of concentration caused by neurotoxic poisoning from Cymbalta. I am 5.5 months off of it after a 4.5 year slow taper from 60 mg. The taper was brutal and agonizing and I am no better, and worse in many ways, since completing the taper. My experience shows that a very slow, proper taper is no guarantee of even a somewhat smooth ride.

I had horrific itching and bloody rashes the whole time I was on Cymbalta and dermatologist's prescriptions did absolutely nothing. It is only now subsiding and for that I am grateful.

I am unable to socialize at all and have become a complete recluse because of the drug. I've lost my home and all relationships and am completely alone at age 69 which is very frightening.

I just wanted to let you know that I admire your obvious intelligence and stamina. I used to be able to communicate clearly as you do, but cannot now. But I appreciate all that you write as it resonates with me.

February 13, 2022

9 hours ago, gardenlady said:

Oaktree, I have read some of your thread, but cannot read much due to my lack of concentration caused by neurotoxic poisoning from Cymbalta. I am 5.5 months off of it after a 4.5 year slow taper from 60 mg. The taper was brutal and agonizing and I am no better, and worse in many ways, since completing the taper. My experience shows that a very slow, proper taper is no guarantee of even a somewhat smooth ride.

Hi @gardenlady

Thanks very much for commenting on my thread . I am sorry you had to go through such suffering and that you are still suffering. I have read a lot of your own thread and you went through an awful lot completely on your own except for online support sites. I like the reply that Shep made to you on the 21st December 2019 - I would that reply over and over if I was you - I think it's very comforting. I suppose the only way forward is to think that every day brings you one step closer to healing from it - at least you write that itchiness and rashes have stopped and you are actually off all psychotropics -I would love to be off everything so you have climbed the mountain there too which is a huge achievement I think.

It must be a relief at least that the rashes have gone and at least you have evidence there that you are healing. Like you the dermatologists I attended proved useless. My eczema more or less stopped in June 2020 - I had constantly scaling and bleeding hands and feet for three years so I know how distressing that is. I hope it does not come back as I reduce the Mirt.

9 hours ago, gardenlady said:

I am unable to socialize at all and have become a complete recluse because of the drug. I've lost my home and all relationships and am completely alone at age 69 which is very frightening.

I'm pretty similar to you there as regards socialising and I lost my last friend in September 2020 - I was lucky I had access to the Samaritans that night when the friendship ended and was able to speak to a wonderfully kind and empathetic person on the phone.

I hope that as time passes your health will continue to improve and that you won't feel as bad. It is dreadful that you lost your home - I hope you have a secure place to live now.

I think our society is very sick. I don't think it is right that anyone should be completely alone and that is very hard to live with. In the country I am from there is a charity that deals specifically with befriending people who are over a certain age who are on their own. I don't know if you have anything similar in the States. I hope that as you heal from this drug that you might perhaps be able to make some connections -I know how hard that is. Thanks again for commenting.

Oaktree

February 13, 2022

On 2/10/2022 at 10:09 PM, Greatful said:

the wd from Cymbalta is finally subsiding......that's great.......You're going to get off of the Remeron too. You have more courage then you know.

Thanks @Grateful

for your kind remarks and for reaching out in spite of your own withdrawal issues. I suppose that remains to be seen whether I will get off the Mirt.

I think it's probably important though even though I have a generally negative mindset to post something positive here for others coming off and it is true that the intense agitation and akathisia and active suicidal ideation has mostly subsided at present.

I hope you are holding up 🌸

Oaktree

February 13, 2022

On 2/10/2022 at 9:37 PM, JesusSavemefromWD said:

One thing is for sure, I ll never find a place in my heart to justify or forgive what doctors did to me…..

@JesusSavemefromWD - I can't argue with you there...first do not harm and all that...bit of a joke really...it's hard to laugh at though.

February 13, 2022

1 hour ago, Oaktree1 said:

@JesusSavemefromWD - I can't argue with you there...first do not harm and all that...bit of a joke really...it's hard to laugh at though.

Yea, it is tragic …. Almost month 16 and I can barely survive every day after just few weeks on Zoloft and doctors are still trying to find the cause of my mental illness….. it can’t be Zoloft they say …. It’s all a big coincidence that I was fully functional just before starting this poison …. I am so desperate all I can think is maybe a RI at a low dose might save me from this torture but I don’t dare to take this poison again. Have you seen any more improvements lately? I keep praying for us…

February 15, 2022

On 2/13/2022 at 6:12 PM, JesusSavemefromWD said:

I am so desperate all I can think is maybe a RI at a low dose might save me from this torture but I don’t dare to take this poison again. Have you seen any more improvements lately? I keep praying for us…

I would feel the same as you about taking a low dose but the moderators would know more.

I have seen some improvements in my own condition in the past while but I am aware now of how fragile I am and how easily any bit of stress can throw me. I get very angry very easily but then again I was like that long before I took drugs. Being aware of those things as opposed to denying them or being angry with myself for being the way I am helps.

I suppose the only thing to do is wait it out... and in the meantime to try within the limits of what you can bear to find something that distracts you if that is possible... I am making marmalade at the moment. It was a 'family' tradition carried down over three generations and was one of the ways that I tried to create some function within the family. Now the 'family' has more or less fallen apart but I am still making it - it gives me something to do; it's repetitive and calms my brain down .

Oaktree

February 23, 2022

Update: - :since I posted the last time my mood has deteriorated again. This mood is different in that I have no agitation and akathisia. I would characterise it as a deeply depressed mood with severe suicidal ideation. It is a strange development and dissimilar to the agitation and akathisia I have previously experienced. This mood developed in the last 5 days. The suicidal ideation is very intense. I am sleeping well and not waking up at night - I am just having very vivid dreams. My appetite remains unaffected except that find myself craving white carbohydrates more than usual. That is very different to what I experienced previously when my sleep was badly affected. I am going to update this page periodically if things change.

One of the limitations to this forum is that everyone's history and biochemistry is different so while the title to my story is 'Tapering from Remeron while dealing with Cymbalta withdrawal' there is a limit to its usefulness because another person's history will be different to mine. They might be younger; have a bigger support network or not; be a different gender, have other physical health issues etc.

I am well aware that any young or older clinicians looking at this thread would diagnose me with one or perhaps all three of the mental health conditions I have listed previously and based on the current DSM they would not be wrong.

I am continuing the taper from Mirtazapine mainly because of the eczema, allergies and muscle and joint pain and because I am tired of ingesting toxins that adversely affect every organ in my body on the basis that they will make me feel better psychologically. My quality of life is pretty poor at this stage but these physical issues make it more unpleasant.

Oaktree.

February 23, 2022

@Oaktree1I am sorry to hear about the deep dark mood you are having.......The depression is terrible hard to go through...On a lighter note, things must be changing and healing for you. You know that the brain is healing and changing you lost the akathesia and agitation, but sadly it switched to another spot in your brain that is affecting the emotional region of the brain.

That's sounded good anyway lol. I have know idea if that's really how it works, but it makes sense.

Boy can I relate to wanting to get the toxins out of your body and out of our brains! Every time I drop I feel a little more rational and clearer.....I just have to put up with the other WD garbage that comes with it..........

I know you are strong and determined to succeed on your journey to get drug free and you know what you will❤️.......Look how far you have come, how much you have gone through proves that you are a remarkable woman.

Those awful SI thoughts are just that thoughts.. Yep I sure know how real they feel........

Claire Weeks and she talks about depression. From what I get we just let ourselves feel it and not fight it.........accept it, as well as anything that comes with it. It will pass. So hard to do but what choice do we have.......

My heart goes out to you Oaktree, I know you don't have support at home, but know that you do have it here.❤️

February 23, 2022

4 hours ago, Greatful said:

Claire Weeks and she talks about depression. From what I get we just let ourselves feel it and not fight it.........accept it, as well as anything that comes with it. It will pass. So hard to do but what choice do we have.......

My heart goes out to you Oaktree, I know you don't have support at home, but know that you do have it here.❤️

@Grateful

Your post is so empathetic and kind and helpful.

4 hours ago, Greatful said:

Boy can I relate to wanting to get the toxins out of your body and out of our brains! Every time I drop I feel a little more rational and clearer.....I just have to put up with the other WD garbage that comes with it..........

It is great that you are feeling more rational and clearer after tapering - that's a great feeling.

Thank you

Oaktree 🌸

February 25, 2022

Dear @Oaktree1 The mood you describe (a deeply depressed mood with severe suicidal ideation) is one I can relate to. It is utterly challenging and I am so sorry that you are having to experience it. My blind speculations change everyday, but today I'm going with the thought that these moods are expressions of the healing process. Perhaps as our brains recover from the poisoning of the drugs, side effects may include nightmares and extreme despondency. I find it so hard to not listen to my brain during these waves. That's why a message from you on my intro site helps me hang on. It's difficult being on your own--and also in our culture that doesn't recognize the devastation these drugs readily create. I hope you can put aside the lists of disorders and remember how many heroines (and heroes) would have been slapped with such suspicious acronyms in the past.

You're very brave, oaktree💜

Hugs to you.

Your friend,

Arbor

February 27, 2022

On 2/25/2022 at 7:50 PM, arbor said:

That's why a message from you on my intro site helps me hang on. It's difficult being on your own--and also in our culture that doesn't recognize the devastation these drugs readily create.

Thanks Arbor for posting,

It is very difficult I agree having to go through this on your own - very tough. I have someone in the house with me but it is like a flat mate I don't really communicate with - a bad shared history and no support. Little to no conversation - alcohol use periodically which is difficult. I suppose it is good to have another being in the house. Being completely on your own is tough.

I agree with you that despite a lot of critical voices the mainstream culture in the States doesn't appear to recognise the damage these drugs do. Mark Horowitz has to some extent made inroads into this culture in the UK with the publication of the advice on withdrawal problems and has support from other psychiatrists and in particular the British Psychological Society. However on the many wonderful meetings I have seen hosted on the Inner Compass an Medicating Normal sites many of the speakers have spoken about the difficulties of ever having the damage acknowledged in the mainstream because corporate interests play such an unrestricted role in US life. They are heavily represented on the FDA. Ireland is very similar to the US on that - there are a lot of US pharma and bio tech companies here and the economy is very dependent on them so there is absolutely no criticism of that culture whatsoever in the mainstream Irish media which is tiresome. At least Obama brought in an act that required psychiatrists to declare their financial remuneration from drug companies I think.

I have kind of given up accepting that I will be believed as such. I state calmly to family members - 'No I don't drink alcohol any more. I am unable to metabolise it now thanks to the psychotropic drugs I took (true); and I have told the two female members of my family that I know I got the eczema (now much better) and allergies (still there unfortunately) I suffer from today because of the drugs. I state it calmly. I don't look for support.

Sooner or later, probably later people will come around when enough damage has been done to enough people and then these drugs will be regarded with the same distrust and opprobrium that benzodiazepines are regarded with now. It is too funny that if you mention the name of any benzo or even the word itself on Facebook the content moderators will shut you or a support site down - they are being demonised the way tobacco is now. It's almost impossible to get a prescription for one where I come from whether from a GP or psychiatric services. They are not remotely as destructive to health as the anti psychotics that are being handed out like confetti in their stead. It's absurd really and if you can laugh at the absurdity of it I find that helps a bit.

I was so immersed in the Ukraine today and other matters I am just replying now. I am enthralled with the bravery of the Ukrainians - they are extraordinary. They have actually renewed a little bit of my faith in human nature which was hovering around ground zero. I watch the news of the women and men staying behind to fight for their country and of those who have already died defending it and it lifts me up. I see mothers walking with backpacks leading small children who have left their partners behind to stay and fight to knowing that they might never see them again and am enthralled at their stoicism and courage. Looking at them has given me renewed courage in my own little battles. I have posted on your own page just now about them but they look puny in comparison.

On 2/25/2022 at 7:50 PM, arbor said:

I hope you can put aside the lists of disorders and remember how many heroines (and heroes) would have been slapped with such suspicious acronyms in the past.

Thanks so much for your kind words. You write so well - I love the alliteration in 'slapped with such suspicious acronyms'. I think you must be some 'class' as we say where I am from of an academic or someone who deals in words for a living. I have kind of just gone zen now about the labels and just focus now on what I can do about my own behaviour. What led me to psychiatric services in the first place? What can I do to watch my own behaviour ?

I had my meeting in psychiatric services the other day. I have to say... the local free service that I have been attending for the past two years - I can't really fault them. I have met people there who are kind and compassionate; who really wanted to help; who saw that I was dealing with with my family dynamics and how destructive it was to me. I met a wonderful young Egyptian registrar who saw me in crisis and gave me time and listened to my story - the next time I saw him he handed me phone numbers of a number of organisations and spoke to me about healthy boundaries - a young man barely 30 I would say ; and he had more wisdom in his little finger than all the so called highly paid experts I saw for four years in my early 20's in the 1990's when this advice should have been given to me. A young woman who gave me practical advice - all registrars but lovely. And the person at the top of it is lovely too. Perhaps something is changing in psychiatry - I don't know. I don't encounter the arrogance there that I did in my 20's.

My previous psychiatrist was also a wise and empathetic woman - she knew very little about drugs but she was wise about why I was the way I was and she told me flat out when I asked about a diagnosis that she didn't believe in labels. I had to get access to all my medical reports when applying for a disability payment and her reports stand out for the compassionate way they were written. I think it is necessary to say - not all psychiatrists are bad people; this was a woman who clearly wanted to help people and I knew of other people through a support groups I attended who said they owed their lives to her. I tend to be black and white and I haven't wanted to acknowledge the white part part. There are people out there practicing psychiatry who are motivated by compassion and the desire to alleviate suffering. The problem of course is the ignorance of the damage that these drugs do. Short term when someone is very distressed a short course of benzo's or something else even like a first generation tricyclic can be life saving but the problem is that they are not used like that.

I think it is important if you have a positive experience to state it. I hadn't wanted to really as I like things black and white but sometimes they're not.

I hope you have a better day and night in your time zone. It's midnight here and time to clean the kitchen and go to bed with Johann Hari's new book 'Stolen Focus'.

Oaktree 🌸

March 8, 2022

Dear @Oaktree1Thank you for the above post. Forgive me for taking awhile to respond. To be honest, I'm having a difficult time functioning beyond just basics. You mention positive experiences and interactions, and I'm very glad for that.

On 2/26/2022 at 4:00 PM, Oaktree1 said:

I think it is important if you have a positive experience to state it.

I want for you every kind of healing possible. My hope is that positive stabilizing continues as your system works with the effects of the drugs. Acceptance of the situations we've landed in from the psychotropic drugs is a challenging state of mind for me, but looking to the positive can only help. Your book sounds like a good read.

Hugs to you,

Arbor

March 9, 2022

Hi @arbor

Thanks for your post above. I know what you mean about basic day to day function. I have gone backwards over the past two weeks thanks to concerns over my cat and the war in Ukraine and another family member whom I had been trying to have a relationship with cut me off. The pain of that is almost unbearable.

I worked hard to have a relationship with them but have to accept there is something about me - I am angry and reactive and sad and ultimately people don't like that. Continual emotional distress is unattractive to people particularly if they are transnational although the older I get the more I think that most human relationships are like that. Bottom line is - life is hard and people have their own problems and don't want to be around toxic, angry people.

I hope you continue to heal or wish you the strength just to get through the day. That's all I wish for myself right now to what purpose though I don't know.

Oaktree

March 10, 2022

11 hours ago, Oaktree1 said:

Continual emotional distress is unattractive to people particularly if they are transnational

oops - meant to write transactional but spellcheck changed it

March 13, 2022

I am going to keep this page updated and try in future just to confine myself to issues related to withdrawal without going too deeply anymore in biographical stuff or life stressors. I am keeping this page updated primarily to add to the data on Mirtazapine which is not listed in the UK Brochure on psychiatric drug withdrawal as the most difficult category of drugs to withdraw from. I think that it is incorrect largely because Mirtazapine acts on so many brain receptors and because it is a very large anti histamine so causes severe rebound insomnia on withdrawal. I have read a lot of histories of people who have come off this drug and struggle and people who have tried and failed to get off it.

On Tuesday the 8th February I reduced .3mg to 5.98. The insomnia set in on day one of the reduction; that has continued; on Friday I got a migraine; on Saturday four days into it the migraine was so severe I could not function at all - I had nausea in addition. Deeply depressed mood since Wednesday - so much so that I had impaired motor function.

Last night after a few nights of no sleep I took a half a Lexathan. Today I feel more normal. I find magnesium glycinate absolutely useless for sleep - if anything it energises me. As I am now five days into the change and I have read that it takes 3 to 9 days for withdrawal to show up I am going to hold at this dose for the next six weeks unless my symptoms become so debilitating that it becomes impossible. I was sleeping quite well (for me that equals 6.5 hours a night) before this dose change. As soon as I changed it I woke up after 2 hours and could not get back to sleep - I hope it resolves.

I am using the products from Deep Recovery purchasable on Amazon which are helpful for pain, particularly the Neck Track for trigger point massage and myofascial release. It is possible to place your face or temples on it too and it is relaxing it you have pain or spasm in your jaw or the side of your head. The neck track is made of soft plastic or rubber and it has indentations in it for massage balls that can also be purchased from the site. The indentations hold the balls in place and allow you to rest your neck or face on the device without the hassle of having to exert pressure to keep the balls in place - you can just relax into it. The pressure calms my nervous system down. I have also found the Occipivot another American product designed by a physical therapist very helpful for neck release and traction of the upper and middle back particularly if I place a small exercise ball on the coccyx so that my whole back is suspended. I don't have any disk or serious spinal issues but for someone who has this might be dangerous so just putting out the warning. Putting this out here as a non drug way or helping someone relax or deal with pain.

Oaktree1: tapering from Remeron while dealing with Cymbalta withdrawal

Recommended Posts

Greatful

Link to comment

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Oaktree1

Oaktree1

Greatful

arbor

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

Greatful

Link to comment

arbor

Link to comment

Overwhelmedlady

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

Overwhelmedlady

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

arbor

Link to comment

Overwhelmedlady

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

JesusSavemefromWD

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

JesusSavemefromWD

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

JesusSavemefromWD

Link to comment

Greatful

Link to comment

gardenlady

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

JesusSavemefromWD

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

Greatful

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

arbor

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

arbor

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment

Oaktree1

Link to comment