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Oaktree1: tapering from Remeron while dealing with Cymbalta withdrawal


Oaktree1

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Hi @Onmyway,

 

 

On 3/5/2023 at 2:39 AM, Onmyway said:

That means that every 1ml of liquid has 0.9090 (or approximately 0.91 mg) of mirtazapine. 

Thanks very much for replying so comprehensively to my queries.  I am so bad at maths it took me a while to work out how you worked out that you got the following (by dividing 30 by 33).  I actually enjoyed working it out though.

 

On 3/5/2023 at 2:39 AM, Onmyway said:

That is 9.1% less than what you were supposed to be taking. [I find that by subtracting 3.818 from 4.2 and dividing by 4.2 -> (4.2-3.818)/4.2] This means that you have inadvertently reduced by 9.1%.

I just about understand the above - you divide by 4.2 to get the percentage decrease.  I was confused because no division by 100 was used in the calculation which I am used to seeing in percentage calculations.  I was out to lunch for all maths classes from an early age I'm afraid.

 

It would appear that my method i.e. calculating that 33ml was a 10% increase on 30 and so subtracting 10% from my taper leading to a calculation of 3.5mg was wrong.  Good thing that I asked -  I was flying blind there.  Thank you for clearing it up.

 

I am going to continue using the old beaker for the moment.  I am freaked that if I change beakers  and use less liquid that I will get worse side effects.  I am at 4.2ml (3.82ml) and have been there since the 9th December last.  Will amend my signature in the next few days.

 

Thanks very much for your detailed and helpful response - it is much appreciated.

 

There is one more thing I would appreciate some advice on from either yourself or another mod.  I was told last week I needed a hip replacement.  It apparently takes 12 months to recover from it and I will need to go to a step down facility for a while.  The thing is what do I do in hospital or the step down facility ?  I can't very well show them my glass beaker with the solution and tell them to store it in the fridge and bring it over to me every night so I can syringe the right amount down my gullet.  If I get the replacement I'll be pretty immobile for a while in terms of making up a solution.  I have been thinking that I should taper down to 3.75mg which is half a 7.5mg tablet and then stay at that while doing the replacement but I really want to push on with the taper.  I don't want to get the hip replacement needless to say but the pain is becoming unmanageable so I am slowly beginning to accept that I will have to get it.  There is no point in reducing below 3.75mg and then having all the good tapering work undone if they up the dose in hospital because the pill can't really be split beyond quartering it to get it under 3.75mg.

 

Any advice appreciated.

 

Oaktree

 

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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  • Moderator

Hi @Oaktree1,

 

I used some shortcuts instead of dividing by 100, so maybe that was confusing :) No worries for not understanding - we each have our strengths - I am horrible at quite a few things (hand eye coordination during aerobics classes was quite entertaining for the class, I'd say :))  

 

If you get to 3.75 and you don't want to deal with the liquid in hospital (I completely understand), you can use a scale - I think lots of people here are using the Gemini scale and pre-cut 3.75mg tablet in pill box. You don't want to rely on just eyeballing half a tablet when you are sensitive and in withdrawal. 

 

The one thing to remember when you get the scale is that the pill weight when you put it on te scale will actually be much bigger than 7.5mg because it has fillers to bulk it up, so you will take the pill weight and divide that by half for each pill to get the 3.75mg dose. 

 

An alternative would be to make the liquid in larger doses and keep it at room temperature for a few days. When I travel I put some liquid in a jar and take it with me. But the pill seems slightly easier to me. 

 

Let me know when you decide and we can help with that as well. 

 

IF you wanted to get 3.75mg using the current beaker and liquid in preparation for your surgery that will be equivalent to 4.125 ml of your liquid where you dissolve 30mg tablet into a 33ml solution. I got that by dividing 3.75mg by 0.909 (the concentration mg per ml of the beaker solution). This is more than 3.75ml because the concentration is weaker than 1mg :1ml.

 

Going from 4.2 to 4.125 is a 1.8% reduction. So if you were switching to a 3.75mg tablet directly that would be OK but I would advise that you wait a month before making any changes on the tablet, especially if the surgery is happening during that time as well. And then you should keep using the 7.5mg tablet to make your solutions from then on and try to see if you can get the same producer of the generic (you can ask your pharmacy for that). 

 

Hope this is not too confusing. Pls do not hesitate to tag me if you have any questions. 

OMW 

Edited by Onmyway

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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  • Moderator
32 minutes ago, Oaktree1 said:

It would appear that my method i.e. calculating that 33ml was a 10% increase on 30 and so subtracting 10% from my taper leading to a calculation of 3.5mg was wrong. 

The thing about percentages is that they are not the same going up and going down. 

So if you go up from 30ml to 33 ml that is a 10% increase (33-30)/30 = 0.1

[(New value - Old value)/Old Value]*100 is the percentage change formula

Then we multiply by 100 to get 10%. We always divide by the original (starting) value which here is 30. 

 

Going down from 33 though is different. In this case it is [(30-33)/33]*100=-9.09 which I rounded up to 9.1% The minus sign just tells us that it is a decrease. 

 

So even though the change in value is the same - we have changed only 3ml - the percentage change is different if you go up or you go down. 

 

To get a new dosage that is 10% lower that the current dosage you would simply multiply the current dosage by 0.9 which means that you have subtracted 10% from 100% which is now 90% of the previous value. And 90% in decimals is 0.9. 

 

For example, I am taking 13ml of my medicine. If I lower by 10% my new dosage will be 

0.9*13=11.7ml. Note that this is not the amount that I am cutting but  the new dosage that I need to take. 

 

For you a new dosage that is 10% lower than 4.2ml would be 0.9*4.2=3.78ml [I am not suggesting that you do that, just offering as an example]. 

 

I think this is enough math for one night and putting it out here just in case it is helpful to you or to anyone else :)
OMW 

 

 

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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On 3/7/2023 at 12:32 AM, Onmyway said:

If you get to 3.75 and you don't want to deal with the liquid in hospital (I completely understand), you can use a scale - I think lots of people here are using the Gemini scale and pre-cut 3.75mg tablet in pill box. You don't want to rely on just eyeballing half a tablet when you are sensitive and in withdrawal. 

 

The one thing to remember when you get the scale is that the pill weight when you put it on te scale will actually be much bigger than 7.5mg because it has fillers to bulk it up, so you will take the pill weight and divide that by half for each pill to get the 3.75mg dose. 

 

An alternative would be to make the liquid in larger doses and keep it at room temperature for a few days. When I travel I put some liquid in a jar and take it with me. But the pill seems slightly easier to me. 

 

Let me know when you decide and we can help with that as well. 

Hi @Onmyway

 

Thanks very much explaining below how a percentage decrease is calculated differently from a percentage increase.  I have to admit I don't understand the logic of it but I get it as a rule now if that makes sense.  Good to have it explained.

 

I am a bit confused some of paragraph above.   The lowest Mirtazapine tablet I can get is 15mg.  If I halved one of these that would be 7.5mg.  Are you saying that in order to take 3.75mg in tablet form that I would have to take 7.5mg in tablet form?

 

Thanks for the much needed mathematical assistance.

 

Oaktree

 

 

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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1 hour ago, Oaktree1 said:

I am a bit confused some of paragraph above.   The lowest Mirtazapine tablet I can get is 15mg.  If I halved one of these that would be 7.5mg.  Are you saying that in order to take 3.75mg in tablet form that I would have to take 7.5mg in tablet form?

Hi @Oaktree1

sorry I misunderstood. I thought the tablet you were cutting was 7.5mg. So if you wanted to get 3.75 of a 15mg tablet you would need to cut it not in half but in four equal parts and then take one.

 

The pill itself would weigh more than 15mg when you put it on the scale as it has binding agents, chemicals to keep it from spoiling etc. So a pill that has 15mg of the active ingredient mirtazapine may weight 300mg because it has other stuff (inactive ingredients) to it when you put it on the scale. That is all I was saying. If you decide to do this using a scale please let us know and I can help you with it when the time comes. I don't want to stress you further with it now :)

 

OMW

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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  • 1 month later...
  • Mentor

@Oaktree1  Hi Oaktree,  Sounds like you are at the same point  as a few of us......Hard to post...What is there to say....I am impressed with your perseverance at clomping along....I draw courage from that....

I see you are taking Zinc, how much do you take?  I started to take it about a week ago because I read on another persons that she takes it for her ocd and it helps... Anyway I started with about 25mg---I eye ball cut a 50mg in half...Today I took 50mg.  

I think I am going to get my doctor to order a complete vitamin and mineral test and maybe a hormone test.  

 

Take care of yourself and reach any time. 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24894-greatful-is-this-withdrawal-or-to-many-med-changes-at-once/

1995? Prozac,  tried several Paxil, Serzone, St John's Wart back to Prozac and Trazodone ct:d Traz

 Lexapro. Tried to stop Crash in 2015  Kindled   Hospitalized, Vybrid, Seroquel, Effexor, Abilify  Pristiq, Wellbutrin-- 2016  ended back on   Prozac and Lamictal 200mg

5/2020  thru 12/2020 taper from 20mg  Prozac  down to 3mg.  Crashed  12/13/2020 Zoloft 50mg 1/29ct  1/29/2021 Seroquel 50mg ct  2/12/2021 Wellbutrin 75mg.  Became hypo manic 2/1  6ct Trazodone 50mg 4/25  25mg 2/5/ 2021 Lamictal 150mg.  2/24  100mg   4/9  75mg   4/21 37.5 

2/16/2021 Seroquel 50xr  3/3 100mg  3/17  150mg  side effects ct   4/3 2021 Lexapro 5mg  4/14  7.5mg  4/30 10mg  5/10  7.5mg 

2021/ 5/16  5mg Lexapro   37.5 Lamictal   25mg trazadone,   xanax  .0625mg  3x a day   

Lexapro  Taper> Sept/01/2021  4.90mg>  Sept/25  4.75mg>   Oct/19 4.69mg > Nov/14 4.2mg    Jan/30/2022-- Split dosing 2x a day All liquid  4.2mg  (2.20mg at 8am & 2mg at 4pm) 2/17 4mg>  2/24  3.8mg  slow taper to  Aug/12/2022 2.04mg  2023> 2mg,  1.90mg, 1.80mg, 1.70mg, 1.5mg, 1.4mg, 1.3mg 1.2mg, 1.1mg, 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.8mg, 0.7mg 0.65mg, 0.6mg, 0.55mg, 0.5mg, 0.45mg, 0.4mg, 0.35mg, 0.3mg, 0.25,mg, back to once a day dosing 0 .1mg, 0.07mg

Lamictal  taper  4/17/ 2022 25mg, 9/9/ 22 -20mg, 9/25/22- 15mg , 10/20/22-   0

 Trazodone..2023.>down to 14mg, 7mg, 6mg  July 2023   0

Xanax  0.0625 3 x a day,  2023>  0.042 3x a day

Supplements  Magnesium glycinate, Omega 3, D3, vitamin c , zinc, NAC 

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Hi Greatful

 

Thanks for coming on my thread - it is appreciated.  Yup clomping along is a good description.

 

Re the zinc, the only reason I started with that is that it comes in the same tablet as the Lutein I take and I only took that - the Lutein - because it was recommended as helpful for the eczema I got way back in 2018.  I couldn't say whether it helps with anything TBH - it is meant to help with wound healing and that but I took it on its own for a while for eczema and it didn't help at all.  The Lutein definitely helped though with the eczema.  I think it's a good idea to get full blood panel done with your doc to test for minerals and that - would give a good idea of any possible deficiencies. 

 

I know that the only supplements recommended here are magnesium and omega three oils but I started taking the Lutein before I came on here at all.  

I hope the zinc helps you a little bit - as far as I read though to be effective it needs to be combined with vitamin C which apparently is activated to the CNS but that is only what I have read from the net.

 

Good luck with the clomping on anyway ..it's all that can be done one day at a time as the song says

 

Oaktree1

 

 

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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Quick update:- starting heading down again in dose after my three month hold around six weeks ago - see signature using the Brass Monkey method.

 

Sleep apart from the first night of the dose change on balance reset itself after my three month hold and is now good.  The hip pain may be helping with this as I am so whacked after the day that I conk out as soon as I go to bed - if I wake up around 6 or 7am I can go back to sleep.  I hate posting positive stuff as it tends to tempt the arch hitch fate and I get a set back but it only makes sense to chart positive as well as negative.

 

To date - no real eczema problems have re- emerged - touching wood.

 

In my signature I have noted the reduction using my current beaker system and noted in brackets what that represents in real terms following OnMyWays' helpful mathematical calculations so currently I am at 3.9 (3.5).  Please don't ask me to explain this as my brain is not up to it but refer if wished to the very helpful notes left by OnMyWay on my thread.

 

My goal is to get to 1.82mg which is a 16th of the  15mg tablet dose so that when I go into hospital for a hip replacement it will be easier for the nursing staff or I can prepare it in pill form a while before.  I will get out the Gemini scale I used to taper off Cymbalta and make a few tries at doing this with the large stash of Mirtazapine I have built up as the prescription I get still has me on 15mg a day.  OMW suggested if I switch to capsules that I hold for a month afterwards so I aim to do this.  It all depends on when I get offered the operation.  At present one of my cats is dying and I am not going for the op until he has passed so it could be a few months plenty of time to get lower on the dosage hopefully.

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi @Oaktree1

 

Nice to hear that your insomnia is better. I hope that all goes well when you eventually get your hip replacement. 
 

That’s so extremely sad that your cat is dying, my heart goes out to you. It’s heart wrenching when our animals die. I’m so sorry you’re going through this at the moment. 
 

Sending you hugs🤗

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, for chronic pain. Had Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March10=7.25mg ✔️ April17=7.0✔️ June5=6.75✔️ July14=6.50✔️ Aug28=6.25✔️ Oct10=6.20  ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️ Dec16=5.80 ✔️ 2020➡️ Jan 21=5.60 ✔️ April2=5.40 ✔️ May29=5.20 ✔️ Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan31=4.60 mg✔️ April24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️ Aug 28=4.20 ✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov1=4.10 ✔️ Nov21= 4.05✔️ Dec13= 4mg ✔️2022 ➡️ Jan8=3.95✔️ Jan31=3.90✔️ March2=3.85 ✔️ April4=3.80 ✔️ June16=3.75✔️ July26=3.70✔️ Sep2=3.65✔️ Oct21=3.60 ✔️ Dec8=3.55✔️2023➡️ Jan 26=3.50✔️ March 17=3.45✔️ June12=3.40✔️ July30=3.35✔️ Sep14=3.30✔️ Oct31=3.25✔️This is NOT medical advice.Consult your doctor.

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Thanks @Carmie

 

That is very kind of you to comment and commiserate about my cat.  I am trying to make him comfortable in his last days - I was lucky to have him in my life - he was a wonderful cat.  

I follow your own challenges too - you are great at those gratitude lists - will have to do a few.🥰

 

Oaktree

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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Wrote too soon - pruritis (itchyness) came back yesterday for the first time in over two years.  My face is itchy and my body is itchy and reacting to the wool sweater I had been wearing without a problem hitherto.  Head also reacted to the E45 shampoo I had been using with impunity for the last year - the night before I had chocolate, cheese and peppers and tomatoes all histamine causing but which had not been causing problems to date.   I hope this does not get worse.  I really do think that the hitch fate got in on the act after I had posted something positive.  I can take chronic pain as I am used to it but allergies and itchyness ...I hope it is not going to get worse from here on in....this damn drug.....grrrrrrrrrrr

The prospect of the total joylessness of a low histamine diet is too much to deal with at present...so I have upped the quercetin.

 

Memo to self - maybe don't post positive updates because I think someone up there or out there in the ether really has it in for me.

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

That’s no good you’ve got itchiness again @Oaktree1 I don’t eat any of the foods you mentioned either, not because of histamines but because I’m on an autoimmune diet. I’ve been on it forever now and I actually love it. I don’t miss grains, dairy, nightshades, sugar etc. I’m on quercetin as well, it’s in a capsule with black seed oil. 
 

 Do continue to post positive updates, we still have to look at the sun despite the gloominess in our lives. 
 

Sending hugs🤗

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, for chronic pain. Had Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March10=7.25mg ✔️ April17=7.0✔️ June5=6.75✔️ July14=6.50✔️ Aug28=6.25✔️ Oct10=6.20  ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️ Dec16=5.80 ✔️ 2020➡️ Jan 21=5.60 ✔️ April2=5.40 ✔️ May29=5.20 ✔️ Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan31=4.60 mg✔️ April24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️ Aug 28=4.20 ✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov1=4.10 ✔️ Nov21= 4.05✔️ Dec13= 4mg ✔️2022 ➡️ Jan8=3.95✔️ Jan31=3.90✔️ March2=3.85 ✔️ April4=3.80 ✔️ June16=3.75✔️ July26=3.70✔️ Sep2=3.65✔️ Oct21=3.60 ✔️ Dec8=3.55✔️2023➡️ Jan 26=3.50✔️ March 17=3.45✔️ June12=3.40✔️ July30=3.35✔️ Sep14=3.30✔️ Oct31=3.25✔️This is NOT medical advice.Consult your doctor.

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Hi @Carmie

 

Many thanks for replying re the itchy skin.  It is great that you are on a good diet and can manage it.  I would say it is hugely helping although I know you are still struggling with ongoing CFS and breathing problems.  I enjoy reading about your meals in your gratitude lists - can give someone ideas about what to prepare sometimes.

 

I have researched all the diets and it seems that I can't win.  The low histamine diet excludes fermented foods; the auto immune diet includes them; there is also an eczema diet that seems to exclude practically everything including fish oil.  My favourite food is cheese and I love bread.  I cut out my favourite cheese Roquefort which caused severe migraine six months ago; I have stopped eating pasta now and i used to eat it three times a week.  I lowered my consumption of bread to two slices per day.   I did try to cut it out but I love toast and butter for breakfast and I like wheaten crackers.  I discovered that most of the no gluten alternatives I found were made with soy which apparently is just as bad as gluten so I went back on the bread.  I wasn't able to find a palatable gluten free bread that didn't have soy.   What is scary about gluten free bread is that it never seems to go off most of it.  I think it would be good if I could stop eating gluten  - it is just the effort involved seems too much  I live with two elderly people that I tend to do a lot of stuff for and two cats in a large house.  They have a certain diet; there is also the cats to be fed three times a day and one cat that has ckd needs extra help; there is only one kitchen and it seems just too much for me to start a new diet regime.  With the chronic hip pain I get exhausted with doing housework of a large house and living on the top floor up four flights of stairs I have only so much energy.  I hate muesli and non dairy alternatives to milk.  In an ideal world - a fantasy world I would have someone deliver and prepare all these foods for me and I wouldn't have to do all the other stuff but very few of us live in that world.

 

Australia seems to have gorgeous sunny weather but where I am most of the time it is cold wet and damp, a climate that is very conducive to strong black tea with milk and bread and jam for comfort.  I love my black tea - which I have in the afternoon mostly.  I love peanut butter too but I think you are right to be on that diet - the anecdotal evidence particularly from some MD's seems to be pretty conclusive that gluten , nightshades and dairy are not helpful for inflammation particularly for menopausal or post menopausal women who seem to get most of the auto immune conditions.    I wish I had the strength to cut it out completely but I need an alternative 'comfort' food.  Fish oil makes my eczema worse so I only take a small amount.  It is a real pity as it's great from inflammation apparently as I've read in the thread on it here.

Perhaps some day I will get the energy to start a better diet but not at the moment

 

You are right about listing the positives - I have a good physio who gave me a good session today which is helpful and the operation is in the pipeline in the next few months.  Better than no operation as in the old days.

 

 

Oaktree1

 

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Dear @Oaktree1

 

I hope that you find a way of eating that will help with your pruritus. I know, it can be hard when you feel like comfort food. I’ve gotten used to my diet and no longer crave things not on it, but there are certainly days where I feel like comfort food. What I tend to head for though is fruit or plantain chips, that usually does it for me. They are both allowed on AIP anyway. I eat lots of sweet potatoes and sweet potato noodles, that usually helps with carb cravings. I’m sorry that you find it hard to give up gluten, it’s easy for me as I get such severe pain and nausea when I eat it. My body has made that choice for me. I don’t miss grains whatever now. Yes, you living where there’s gloomy weather is certainly conducive to wanting to be cosy and wanting comfort food. 

 

My diet, along with the help from my natural therapist actually had me in remission from my breathing problems a couple of years ago, but since the vax I can’t go back into remission. I’m on all kinds of supplements to try and help with the spike protein. I hope I end up in remission one day again, it’s scary waking up every morning struggling to breathe. 
 

Yeah, wouldn’t it be great if there was a delivery service that would make our meals for us exactly how we needed them, and we could afford it. We need a money tree to afford our own personal chefs😁

 

Your household certainly sounds like a busy one, I live on my own. I do have a cat though. I struggle just to keep on top of things here because of the CFS. Some times the dishes sit there for days on end as I don’t have the strength to stand and do them. As for washing my clothes, I know I have to do a wash when I start running out of underwear😁 I live two stories up n my washing machine is in the garage downstairs.

 

I’m happy you have a good physio and I wish you all the best for you operation once you get it. 
 

Sending hugs your way🤗

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, for chronic pain. Had Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March10=7.25mg ✔️ April17=7.0✔️ June5=6.75✔️ July14=6.50✔️ Aug28=6.25✔️ Oct10=6.20  ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️ Dec16=5.80 ✔️ 2020➡️ Jan 21=5.60 ✔️ April2=5.40 ✔️ May29=5.20 ✔️ Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan31=4.60 mg✔️ April24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️ Aug 28=4.20 ✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov1=4.10 ✔️ Nov21= 4.05✔️ Dec13= 4mg ✔️2022 ➡️ Jan8=3.95✔️ Jan31=3.90✔️ March2=3.85 ✔️ April4=3.80 ✔️ June16=3.75✔️ July26=3.70✔️ Sep2=3.65✔️ Oct21=3.60 ✔️ Dec8=3.55✔️2023➡️ Jan 26=3.50✔️ March 17=3.45✔️ June12=3.40✔️ July30=3.35✔️ Sep14=3.30✔️ Oct31=3.25✔️This is NOT medical advice.Consult your doctor.

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Hi Carmie,

 

I am very sorry to hear about the long setback to your health that the vaccine caused.  I know how frightening struggling to breath is from pneumonia - people who haven't had hypoxia have no idea how frightening it can be.  I really hope that things turn around soon.  Personally I regret having the third and fourth booster.  There was no clinical benefit to these additional vaccines.

I have met a few people now who didn't have any vaccines at all - I am beginning to wonder if I was taken in again.  More and more information is coming out now about it.  I hope that you will improve soon.

 

The pruritis improved three days ago .  I know for definite now some of the foods that really set things off for me: peppers, tomatoes, mushrooms.  For some reason most cheese does not set off symptoms thankfully.  I know I am going to get an eczema breakout on my hands when my fingers start to shrivel like they've been in the water a long time and get very dry.  The next stage is that they crack and start bleeding.  Two days ago they returned to looking unshrivelled.   I ordered a DAO enzyme (apparently you can take it before eating something heavy in histamine to help it break down and lessen symptoms).  I am sorry that you had to give up bread due to nausea - it's amazing how aversion (as in a bad reaction) works to stop one eating offending foods.  Whenever I look at Roquefort cheese now I just see a giant migraine and that stops me eating it. 

 

Thankfully I can eat bread with no symptoms.  I am not giving up bread as long as I can eat it - I love the stuff and there is some really good bread where I live because there is a tradition of baking here ( lots of flour mills were here at one time).  Toast and butter with strong tea is one of the best anti depressants available.  If it worsens the thyroid issue well I'll just end up on the T4 med I suppose.  I had to give up alcohol and nicotine - I still miss them.  I remember the days of drinking cold Sauvignon Blanc on a hot day or lighting up a cigarette after a swim.  I won't experience either of those pleasures again.  When i see young people vaping I can't help but think how they are missing out on the real thing.  Bread is staying with me for a while yet.  I have never eaten Plantain chips but I'm not keen on fruit except apples.  I am glad they work for you comfort food wise.  I am not a sweet potato fan and wish I was - they are meant to be one of the best foods you can eat for inflammation.

 

I have bought some salad seeds and will plant them to get some salad as they are meant to be good with histamine.  I like rockett a lot - bitter greens are meant to be good.

 

I commiserate about your feelings with doing the washing - I am up and down stairs too with washing although I don't have CFS as you do - I would love if clothes would self wash when you put them in the laundry basket and put themselves back neatly folded or hung in one's wardrobe.  I wear my clothes for three or four days or more except for smalls to save on having to clothes wash more than I have to.  Changing bed linen is the worst thing ever - I dread that job.

 

Thank you for the good wishes about my surgery - I am seeing the surgeon soon

 

Made another cut two days ago - doing ok sleepwise for the last week.  Heavy dreams  - I don't mind them - what I do mind is insomnia.  Touch wood my sleep has been ok for the last while.  Very tired by 11.30am; asleep by 12am; wake up sometimes early but I get back to sleep until generally 8 or 8.30am. 

 

I got no sleep last week the night before bringing my cat to the vet but then it resolved the following day.  The cat was chased all over the house to try to get him into a cage to get intravenous fluids at the vets which is the main treatment for kidney failure in cats and can prolong life for a few years and ease symptoms.   He had this once and improved.   I had gotten Neurontin from the vet to drug him because he would not go in a cat carrier.  He cannot be scruffed or picked up - he was feral and will attack.  I know he was sick and eventually asked the vet if he could give me something and he gave me a small amount of Neurontin.  I hated having to do it but that is how the cat was diagnosed with kidney failure and was treated.  Anyway this time the drug did not work and I had a cat grabber and was trying to catch him and he was looking at me in dismay with these 'how can you do this to me ' eyes and the only thing going through my mind was this is what happens to people who are committed to mental health facilities or put on a forcible drug order for 'their 'best interests' and eventually when he reared up to defend himself I had enough and so had the cat.  This cat loves me and I love him.  I decided I will not do this to him again whether it's in his best interests or not.  He will expire at home and I will just have to look at it happening and make him comfortable.  I am not putting him through that again.  Once I made that decision I was able to sleep again.

 

Oaktree1

 

 

 

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

@Oaktree1 I’m so glad to hear that you figured out what foods were causing the pruritis, that’s wonderful news. That’s terrific it’s getting better. Also, fab to hear you’ve been sleeping okay. Sorry to hear about your sleepless night with your cat though, that’s just so heartbreaking. It’s so sad when our animals become so ill. I’m really, really sorry you’re going through this. 
 

I’m happy you’re enjoying your bread and it’s giving you comfort. We all need a little something that brings comfort into our lives. How cool that you’re going to plant your own salad. I eat tons of salad, I usually buy it organic as they use a lot of pesticides on greens. The insects love them. Yum! Yum! 

 

I love your self washing clothes idea, that made me laugh😂. That would be so cool!

 

Sending you big hugs and also a hug for your cat🤗💛

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, for chronic pain. Had Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March10=7.25mg ✔️ April17=7.0✔️ June5=6.75✔️ July14=6.50✔️ Aug28=6.25✔️ Oct10=6.20  ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️ Dec16=5.80 ✔️ 2020➡️ Jan 21=5.60 ✔️ April2=5.40 ✔️ May29=5.20 ✔️ Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan31=4.60 mg✔️ April24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️ Aug 28=4.20 ✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov1=4.10 ✔️ Nov21= 4.05✔️ Dec13= 4mg ✔️2022 ➡️ Jan8=3.95✔️ Jan31=3.90✔️ March2=3.85 ✔️ April4=3.80 ✔️ June16=3.75✔️ July26=3.70✔️ Sep2=3.65✔️ Oct21=3.60 ✔️ Dec8=3.55✔️2023➡️ Jan 26=3.50✔️ March 17=3.45✔️ June12=3.40✔️ July30=3.35✔️ Sep14=3.30✔️ Oct31=3.25✔️This is NOT medical advice.Consult your doctor.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Mentor

@Oaktree1  I wanted to stop by and say hi,  I haven't chatted with you for awhile.  How are things going for you? Do your ever talk to Overwhelmedlady from Argentine.. She hasn't posted since march of 2022  but I see that she has visited the site March of this year.   I hope all is going okay with her. 

 

Does your cat let you pet or cuttle him?   If so love him as much as you can while you can.🌞

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24894-greatful-is-this-withdrawal-or-to-many-med-changes-at-once/

1995? Prozac,  tried several Paxil, Serzone, St John's Wart back to Prozac and Trazodone ct:d Traz

 Lexapro. Tried to stop Crash in 2015  Kindled   Hospitalized, Vybrid, Seroquel, Effexor, Abilify  Pristiq, Wellbutrin-- 2016  ended back on   Prozac and Lamictal 200mg

5/2020  thru 12/2020 taper from 20mg  Prozac  down to 3mg.  Crashed  12/13/2020 Zoloft 50mg 1/29ct  1/29/2021 Seroquel 50mg ct  2/12/2021 Wellbutrin 75mg.  Became hypo manic 2/1  6ct Trazodone 50mg 4/25  25mg 2/5/ 2021 Lamictal 150mg.  2/24  100mg   4/9  75mg   4/21 37.5 

2/16/2021 Seroquel 50xr  3/3 100mg  3/17  150mg  side effects ct   4/3 2021 Lexapro 5mg  4/14  7.5mg  4/30 10mg  5/10  7.5mg 

2021/ 5/16  5mg Lexapro   37.5 Lamictal   25mg trazadone,   xanax  .0625mg  3x a day   

Lexapro  Taper> Sept/01/2021  4.90mg>  Sept/25  4.75mg>   Oct/19 4.69mg > Nov/14 4.2mg    Jan/30/2022-- Split dosing 2x a day All liquid  4.2mg  (2.20mg at 8am & 2mg at 4pm) 2/17 4mg>  2/24  3.8mg  slow taper to  Aug/12/2022 2.04mg  2023> 2mg,  1.90mg, 1.80mg, 1.70mg, 1.5mg, 1.4mg, 1.3mg 1.2mg, 1.1mg, 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.8mg, 0.7mg 0.65mg, 0.6mg, 0.55mg, 0.5mg, 0.45mg, 0.4mg, 0.35mg, 0.3mg, 0.25,mg, back to once a day dosing 0 .1mg, 0.07mg

Lamictal  taper  4/17/ 2022 25mg, 9/9/ 22 -20mg, 9/25/22- 15mg , 10/20/22-   0

 Trazodone..2023.>down to 14mg, 7mg, 6mg  July 2023   0

Xanax  0.0625 3 x a day,  2023>  0.042 3x a day

Supplements  Magnesium glycinate, Omega 3, D3, vitamin c , zinc, NAC 

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Hi Greatful,

 

Thanks for stopping by.  Things aren't great - the same old stuff with my living situation only it got worse because one parent got Covid - no contact from either sibling to me as usual although the sibling that never makes contact actually rang the parent with covid twice - what a miracle haha.  That is my living situation which is separate to drug withdrawal but it is impacting on my taper because it is so horrible where I am and I've few to no options.  Socially isolated, long term unemployed, my CV a giant gap.  I am in my fourth week of the last drop and am going to continue to hold there.  I took two Rivotril over the course of last week when i was told that the parent had Covid.  As usual the other parent did nothing.  He is a masterclass in selfishness.  I did the chicken soup making and other things to try and tempt appetite (she eats like a bird).  The sick person is the only person in my 'family' hahaha, that is even half way in my corner.  The rest of them... well the less said the better.   What I would love is a place of my own in a bit of nature where I never had to have contact or see any of them again except the parent with Covid but that's a fantasy unfortunately.  I don't have any money just my disability payment which is subsistence level.

 

It's a terrible thing to write but I will be happy when the other parent dies.   He got away with everything, absolutely everything he did.  My other parent is just a shell of a person but keeps up appearances with her own friends from childhood and her own family about how awful things actually were...to preserve some dignity I suppose.  She also leaned on me a lot about him and I leaned on her a lot.  The things that man did or didn't do....people would find it hard to believe and then he walks out the door and is charming to all - good reputation where we live.  I was actually dismissed from a place of employment where this man was a partner.  It's hard to get my head around that.  I put myself through my professional training at night over the course of 8 years - paid for it myself - nearly 12 grand - he never paid a penny.  It was a point of honour for me that I paid for it because he had complained that he had to pay for an extra year for my primary degree because I had had a breakdown and had to repeat the year.  He said to me once 'Why aren't you better after all the money I've spent on psychiatrists?'  The so called psychiatrists sided with him - he presented well and is a professional man - a middle class professional like them.  I don't like middle class people much and I come from that background.  They're all about the optics usually.   

 

My mother kept saying going into his business would be a secure job for me and by that stage I had already had two nervous breakdowns and was desperate for any chance at a normal life and security.  Well he just ignored me for the time that I was in there and I was kept doing menial secretarial work and then he refused to give me a professional training.  The other people in charge in the business didn't bother with me - in fairness to them they didn't owe me anything and because it was a small town and my father was a blabber mouth they probably already knew I had mental health issues .  One of them gave me work but she was bullied out and after her, I was just left in a room and every few days someone would come in and take an active file off me.  I got no work - just left there and I knew my days were numbered.  I tried hard to get him to notice me; asked him questions, sent him memos.  He ignored them all.  One of my other siblings was in there too at one stage - he ignored her too but she had more options than me and moved on.  She was married at that stage and her husband had a good income.

 

So I'm feeling pretty vulnerable and frightened at the moment and pretty hopeless.  I love the nature and space of where I live and even though I know I don't own it and it will be sold it's kind of the only place where I felt I belonged even in spite of everything else that went on because it was large enough that I could get away from people.  But now things are closing in and it no longer feels safe.  I know it is a matter of time before someone dies or gets seriously ill and then what will happen to me?  Where will I live?  Where will I go?  How will I survive financially?  What will happen to my cats?  Also living here day after day I used to kind of kid myself that I was basically loved and that this parent loved me but could not show love but reality just keeps hitting me in the face now.  Maybe it's because I have come down on my drugs.  Maybe some intelligence is finally creeping through to my brain...I don't know.  They say that we only see what is bearable for us to see ...willful blindness.... or some philosopher said that mankind cannot bear too much reality.  My siblings saw the reality early on though and they cut and run mostly.  One of them only really came back when she had young offspring and wanted help with childcare.  I was too damaged and had spent too much time living in fantasy land as a kid.  I wanted to believe that I was loved.  I really loved this parent too....much much more than the other two and I kept on loving him until I was 50 and trying to imagine that I was loved by him too.   But the weight of the evidence is there.  He just wasn't bothered.  There were things that were more interesting to him.  He actually asked me once when he had to drive me to the train when I was going into my final year in college having come out of a breakdown, 'what did you get in your exam?'  He was annoyed at having to drive me to the train.  I told him the result and he said 'that's ****'.  Then there was a pause and he said 'What are you studying anyway?'  I was only doing two subjects and had been doing them for three years by that point.  He had so little interest he didn't even know what they were.  When I was acting for a few years I was in quite a few performances -he didn't go to one of them.  When I brought that up he lied and said that I had told him not to go.  what can you say to something like really?  It's absurd.  You couldn't really get through to him or get him to care or even show remorse because he doesn't feel it.  I don't know why the penny took so long to sink for me but I think I know that the main reason was that my emotions were involved because I really adored this parent once upon a time and would have given anything for them to reciprocate.  This person had charm.  Now if I see a charming person I run away...beware, beware people with charm.  Beware most people in fact, haha or that is my experience anyway.  

 

Suppose I have to write something positive.  I am doing some gardening which I quite enjoy and it can slow down the awful thoughts in my brain.  I am looking after my cat who I know does love me because he shows it.  Word to the wise...if someone doesn't pay you attention or show interest in you or show up for you when you need them, that means that they do not love you.  What did it take me so long to work that out?  Well better late than never I suppose.

 

I corresponded with Overwhelmedlady quite a few months ago and she was not in a good place.  I hope that she is ok but perhaps she is not.  There is another person ShiningLight who hasn't posted in nearly two months and was in a very bad place, just managed to get out of a psyche unit and was utterly isolated having to fight her corner against the doctors alone.  There is only so much that people can take I suppose and fighting your corner on your own with no support system when you are highly distressed, financially vulnerable and iatrogenically damaged from years of drug use can eventually break someone.  That is why having supportive family and friends and people in your corner can be so vital and why the people that do have them are so lucky.  That and/or independent means through a job or inheritance.  That buys you safety too and support too.   

 

For example you have to have a minimum income now if you want to access the 'Inner Compass Initiative'.  They used to operate from Facebook but have since set up on another network and introduced payment plans and now they are going all out and erecting a complete paywall.  I got an email there a week or so ago advising that they are now introducing a full membership which will cost 29.99 dollars a month that will allow 'exclusive access to monthly support groups, community discussions, community discussions, talks a media library'.....etc etc etc.  The basic minimum membership is 9.99 dollars which only provides access to the 'main community' whatever that means.  I understand that they need to make a profit even though it is advertised as a non profit but providing different levels of service which is determined on what you can pay left a very bad taste in my mouth.  29.99 dollars a month is too much for those on a restricted income and many former psychiatric patients are.  It is support primarily for those who are financially cushioned.  They have a scholarship that you can apply for but really?  What makes the people on that site any different from the people here who are suffering through drug withdrawal and getting that support for free from the mods here that do it as a public service and from a moral imperative?   Who are they to be offering scholarships to anyone?  They are people who come from a background that is privileged enough that they have the ability to access finance to set up non profit initiatives such as that one when in all other respects they are no different to the members and moderators on here, just laypeople trying to get off psychiatric drugs who know a bit more than most of their doctors who don't believe them.   It reminds me now ever so slightly of Gwyneth Paltrow's Goop - a sub branch of the wellness industry for people who can pay for it.  For a lot of people the minimum required payment is too much and I find the fact that additional access is provided for additional money pretty sick making.  I can't justify paying out nearly 25 euros a month to have access to a support community when I have to pay for therapy and physio for chronic pain on a restricted budget.  I used to enjoy looking at the interviews on FB but thank you I am not paying for your expertise when you know no more than the great warrior moderators on here both past and present.  

 

It's tough anyway but I do think that it is a tougher for women on their own like Overwhelmedlady and ShiningLight and I am on my own too more or less.   One has to be very tough to survive in this life I think, very, very tough.  

 

I did try going back to a two different mental health groups twice- much too triggering.  It was just heartbreaking listening to a teenage girl say that her parents were complaining because she was sleeping 12 hours a day and not getting up by nine in the morning as she was so tired from the drugs.  The others in the group told her that she needed to 'let the medication bed in'.  there was no mention that it might be too much for her.  A few years ago I would have said something.  Not now.  It was my first and last visit and I saw myself in that young girl.  That happened to me too when I was first put on drugs - I slept 12 hours a day and thought I was doing the right thing.  I looked at that nice looking young girl and saw that she was effectively doomed but I knew that nothing I said would make any difference as the group all supported the drug model and I had no power as I was just a newcomer who was looking for support myself.  There was another elderly couple there and the wife was not able to walk from the drugs she was on.  She kept falling.  She was advised by another senior woman that it might not be the drug at all - to get some blood tests - that it could be something else.  I said nothing.  This elderly couple were not very educated but looked like decent if ignorant people used to doing what they were told.  It was sad.  But then again life is now really.  There is really no criticism at all now in this country of drugs or the psychiatric system.  10 years ago it seemed like things were changing.  That is all wiped out now.  There is a veritable tsunami of adolescents looking for appointments with the severely short staffed mental health services.  People want more psychiatrists not less as there is nothing else.  There is only half the EU average per capita here.  The doctors keep leaving because the working conditions are so bad.  So all that is left are these crappy support groups that are run by the users themselves mostly and they aren't many of them.  All support the drug model.  I had hopes that they would provide support but I won't go back.  There wouldn't be the support I would need there. 

 

No need to reply Greatful if you have read this far.  I just felt like journaling today.   

 

Oaktree

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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I am going to copy Carmie and do up a gratitude list even though things seem pretty bad at present.

 

1.  I have enough to eat at present and am not being bombed like the Ukrainians and the Sudanese.  I am not fleeing war or famine like so many people in the world today.

 

2.  Where I live currently is quiet

 

3.  I have two cats whom I can afford to feed at present with good cat food.  My bicolor is now doing very well since his last visit to the vets and is now coming into the house and eating all round him.  He has really come out of himself and I can now see he has a lovely gentle personality.  He regularly licks the ginger cat who has kidney disease on his head and on his body.  It is lovely to see his kindness and affection because the ginger guy is not very nice to him at all.

 

4.  I am not homeless like so many people are living on the streets or in hotels where they can't even cook their own food.  How awful it must be to have no home at all- I have a place to live currently so am very lucky in that.  

 

5.  I am a Judge Judy addict and have an endless supply of episodes that I can watch and pause so I don't have to go through the ads.  I love Judge Judy - she is whippet smart, funny, and very Solomon like.  I love her New Yawk accent and her Judyisms 'Um is not an answer', 'He's an idiot!' 'Beauty fades, dumb is forever'.  I love that she is a postmenopausal woman who doesn't apologise for herself and that her show was the most successful show ever on day time TV.   Judge Judy rocks as many of the successful litigants say about her at the end of the show.  

 

6.  I was able to cook my mother a great chicken soup recipe which I got off Martha Stewart's website which is a lot easier than Jamie Olivers.  It was all eaten.  The eczema on my hands has improved so much that I am now able to cook and garden more.

 

7.  I transplanted dying ferns and lavender that were planted in the wrong place by some idiot that was paid too much to do the garden last year and didn't have a clue.  I water them every few days and even if they die (as strictly speaking it's not transplant time) I know I have given them a better chance than where they were.  Now I have a bank of ferns in a shady place and a large bank of lavender in a sunny dry place.  I have also planted angel wings - a particularly beautiful silver grey shrub in the place where my mother wanted to put them last summer but was not up to doing so at the time.  it has rained so much in the past while that digging is  easier as the ground is softer .

 

8.  I am happy that the focus in gardening now has changed to living with weeds or wild flowers for ecological reasons.  I never liked digging up weeds and dislike how they are distinguished badly from so called flowers.   Digging up and pulling out weeds reminds me of doing the wash up outside as opposed to inside and I hate doing indoor housework.  I was thinking about how weeds are demonised when I was in the garden last week and I thought that really it is not dissimilar to the othering that goes on the mental health system.   Now the focus is letting them live as they provide valuable cover for the ground and protect it from erosion in addition to helping with the insects that have survived.  I see how the bees love the common purple vetch which is very prolific at the moment and they love dandelions and daisies.  

 

9.  Even though I dreaded doing it I managed to have my weekly bath today - absolutely hate doing it but did it - now over thankfully.  I wash the bits that need to be cleaned daily but can only manage a full immersion once a week - I don't shower since the eczema happened 4 years ago as it dries out my skin too much.  On that note I am grateful that someone invented aqueous cream so I don't have to use soap and that Aveeno Dermexa balm and Epaderm exists - thank you whatever chemists were involved in their concoction - you are real skin salvers.

 

10.  I am happy that I have gotten a bit of reality about my reactivity. I have discovered a site called 'The Crappy Childhood Fairy' which has really interesting videos on Youtube - it's run by a woman called Anna Rundle and is all about how complex PTSD can really mess with us.  It really resonated with me and I have enjoyed reading her blogs and listening to her videos for most of the week.  There is a thing called a daily practice course which is free which involves doing daily writing and then a transcendental meditation.  I was too distressed if I am honest over the last two days to attempt it but plan to start doing it tomorrow and see how I get on.  It is specifically created to calm emotional dysregulation.  I know that I have that anyway but withdrawing from drugs has added fuel to the flames so to speak.   I had a go at the transcendental meditation and found it easier to repeat a mantra than just focus on my breath.  At least I have something positive that I can now do next week.

 

11.  I love that I am surrounded by trees and that the hawthorn is out at present - it looks like summer snow and has a strong pungent scent almost like urine.  

 

Well I almost feel ok after writing that...they might be something in gratitude lists.

 

Oatree1

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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Hey Oaktree - nice work on the gratitude!!!!

 

It does seem like your cognition is getting stronger - your writing is beautifully clear!

 

I saw this and had a chuckle:

On 5/21/2023 at 11:51 PM, Oaktree1 said:

For example you have to have a minimum income now if you want to access the 'Inner Compass Initiative'.  They used to operate from Facebook but have since set up on another network and introduced payment plans and now they are going all out and erecting a complete paywall.  I got an email there a week or so ago advising that they are now introducing a full membership which will cost 29.99 dollars a month that will allow 'exclusive access to monthly support groups, community discussions, community discussions, talks a media library'.....etc etc etc.  The basic minimum membership is 9.99 dollars which only provides access to the 'main community' whatever that means.  I understand that they need to make a profit even though it is advertised as a non profit but providing different levels of service which is determined on what you can pay left a very bad taste in my mouth.  29.99 dollars a month is too much for those on a restricted income and many former psychiatric patients are.  It is support primarily for those who are financially cushioned.

 

Ah, yes.  Inner Compass.  They are founded on Alto's protocols, and they invited Alto to participate.  When she realised that this was a "for profit" venture, she declined.  They are making money using the SA framework (Alto has "let it go.").  Since I refuse the paywall, I don't know what they offer that SA doesn't.  Except maybe a little more freedom to whinge (I don't know how it is moderated - the moderation here on SA is quite strict, but that is exactly the reason that SA has been around for over a decade - most websites have a life of about 3-5 years).

Pay $30 a month for companionship?  I wonder when this paywall got so high!

 

It's good to hear about your garden, I'm a little jealous, somewhere between the heavy clay, hubby's ideas of what the garden should be like, and my own personal pain - digging in the garden is too much.  I keep trying to inject catnip (my little girl loves it, and I like it too, in tea!) and a few other little herbs and things - but - with the husband's ideas, it just doesn't get done.  (he can dig, but insists the soil needs to be "better" and so if it's not perfect he won't plant)

 

I'm sorry I haven't visited as much - but I have been reading your thread.  We watched an Irish movie last week, but I can't remember what it was - looking at the green landscapes, I thought of you.

 

I hope you see the Sun today!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Hey there @Oaktree1 Good on you for looking at the positives in your life, despite all. When everything seems too hard it really is good to look for things we are still grateful for. It helps me immensely. 
 

Have fun watching Judge Judy⚖️📺. It was wonderful to hear that the eczema on your hands is a bit better too and you’re back into cooking and gardening, two great distractions🥘🌼
 

Keep up with your gratitude lists, if not on this site, then just for yourself with pen and paper. 
 

Sending hugs🤗💛

Edited by Carmie
Typo. Brain fog🤪

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, for chronic pain. Had Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March10=7.25mg ✔️ April17=7.0✔️ June5=6.75✔️ July14=6.50✔️ Aug28=6.25✔️ Oct10=6.20  ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️ Dec16=5.80 ✔️ 2020➡️ Jan 21=5.60 ✔️ April2=5.40 ✔️ May29=5.20 ✔️ Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan31=4.60 mg✔️ April24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️ Aug 28=4.20 ✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov1=4.10 ✔️ Nov21= 4.05✔️ Dec13= 4mg ✔️2022 ➡️ Jan8=3.95✔️ Jan31=3.90✔️ March2=3.85 ✔️ April4=3.80 ✔️ June16=3.75✔️ July26=3.70✔️ Sep2=3.65✔️ Oct21=3.60 ✔️ Dec8=3.55✔️2023➡️ Jan 26=3.50✔️ March 17=3.45✔️ June12=3.40✔️ July30=3.35✔️ Sep14=3.30✔️ Oct31=3.25✔️This is NOT medical advice.Consult your doctor.

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Hi JanCarol,

 

Good to hear from you! as you would say yourself.  It's a pity about the cat mint for your cat - it's dead easy to put down and like all mint it will spread very quickly and doesn't really need any care at all - the gardener who came last year put it down.  Tiny pot, just one small shovel and stick it in the ground.   If you're in pain it's literally 10 to 15 minutes to do max.  I deal with the pain too but I do a small bit and then stop and then do a bit more.  It was hilarious the first time I looked out the window and saw the ginger cat rolling around on it and biting it and pulling it with his paws - I had no idea!  Yesterday morning they were both out rolling around in it and when it was smaller there were regular fights over who got access to it between the two of them.   I don't know why the world says dogs are man's best friend - cats were there first in the very first civilisation in Mesopotania  because they kept away the rodents!  Although there is another mice infestation now and while both of them look mildly interested when they hear scurryings in the kitchen, they are too lazy to do anything about it.  

 

I suppose I can understand in some way why Inner Compass developed a paywall as the email I got said that only 60 out of roughly a 1,000 subscribers were paying a subscription and it was very expensive to run a non profit.  Then yesterday I got an email from MindFreedom International who seem to be barely surviving because they are being turned down for funding everywhere.    I think Mindfreedom as far as I know originated from the civic activism of the 1970's in the pre neoliberal days that were genuinely inclusive and democratic  i.e. it didn't matter if you had no money - you were still included.   

 

Unfortunately in the world we live in now, to have a voice that is listened too, I think perhaps that one needs to be monetised, whether that's on Youtube on elsewhere like on the Inner Compass sites.  I have looked at the team breakdown on Inner Compass - they're all white and from reading their bios, I doubt that any of them have ever been in danger of homelessness  or the lack of choice that comes with having to live longterm on a government SSIA payment that is dependent on accepting a 'mental health label' without any other form of financial support.   I think from looking at the glossy photos and highly polished website that they will be successful in gathering around them a community of people who can pay, yet another example of us and them.  I find it depressing to be honest personally as I recall in one Q&A session I saw with Laura Delano around a year or so ago, she was speaking out against the corporate, profit driven culture ...oh well.   

 

But what happens if you don't have money behind you?  Mindfreedom Intermational are hampered in what they can do as they can't get funding.  The Mindfreedom International website needs a serious update and overhaul.  The late great psychiatric survivor Celia Brown and previous leader of that organisation who led the MFI International's United Nation's team who died in the last few months still has a bio and photo of her as alive on the site.  They might not have the funds in order to update their website.  Things like that matter unfortunately if people are to see you as a force to be reckoned with. 

 

The email from Inner Compass stated that they were reliant on a handful of donors to keep them afloat and that if any of them stopped the funding as they were  a tiny non profit with no government or institutional grants that they could not continue to operate.  From that sense it is like an insurance policy I suppose to keep them afloat. 

 

The other reason offered for the paywall to me was ridiculous - that by introducing a paywall that they were filtering out 'bad actor's and 'those who were not aligned with the values of the community'.  Bad actors do exist but all that is required to keep them out is good moderating and banning them.  I have seen that in action here and on the various Facebook sites that deal with drug withdrawal.  The one thing that they have filtered out by their paywall are the people who can't afford to pay, people who are the most vulnerable.  I took a look at the scholarship form - questions were asked like 'what have you contributed to the community so far?'  Dear God!!!  Imagine asking people who may be already vulnerable and isolated to apply like an interview to see if they are eligible for the privilege of interacting with those who can pay like a private club. 

 

The one great advantage to Facebook is that it is free for everyone (I know that it is moderated along Meta lines and is harvesting your information for marketing purposes but who cares? - most of us are not that important).  

 

The Chelsea Flower Show is on this week in London and I look at it on the BBC and there was one guy there who designed a beautiful garden with the theme of homelessness with an empty fire hearth built into the wall as a centerpiece to signify the heart of a home that was no longer there (the garden is designed as a wasteland).  He was interviewed and said 'well I didn't want to come back but I've been asked by Centerpoint (a homeless charity) to design a garden so I came back' (I am paraphrasing).   I can see why he said he did not want to come back - he was surrounded by the privileged - those people from the home counties and the leafier parts of London who can afford the privilege of a well maintained garden because they have a home and are not stuck in the high rise with plastic cladding in Tower Hamlets ( a poor borough in London) or even worse on the streets.   That is the mentality I see operating in Inner Compass Exchange initiative whatever.  I could be wrong about the privilege of the team but I doubt it.  Ordinary people don't get to do interviews about their psychiatric journey in magazines like 'The New Yorker'.  

 

Hi Carmie,

 

Thanks very much for replying - it has definitely helped - I was surprised - now to keep it up!  I am not good at keeping up things I say I will do - I did not do the Daily Practice from Crappy childhood fairy at all this week as I was too anxious - there you go.  I was reading your last few gratitude lists - you have so many friends.  I can see a bit why.  I really hope that you get a bit of relief from the breathing and CFS but in the meantime it is great that you can rest properly.

 

Oaktree1

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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Dear @Oaktree1 Just wanted to thank you for visiting my thread, I hope your day brings you some joy💛

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, for chronic pain. Had Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March10=7.25mg ✔️ April17=7.0✔️ June5=6.75✔️ July14=6.50✔️ Aug28=6.25✔️ Oct10=6.20  ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️ Dec16=5.80 ✔️ 2020➡️ Jan 21=5.60 ✔️ April2=5.40 ✔️ May29=5.20 ✔️ Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan31=4.60 mg✔️ April24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️ Aug 28=4.20 ✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov1=4.10 ✔️ Nov21= 4.05✔️ Dec13= 4mg ✔️2022 ➡️ Jan8=3.95✔️ Jan31=3.90✔️ March2=3.85 ✔️ April4=3.80 ✔️ June16=3.75✔️ July26=3.70✔️ Sep2=3.65✔️ Oct21=3.60 ✔️ Dec8=3.55✔️2023➡️ Jan 26=3.50✔️ March 17=3.45✔️ June12=3.40✔️ July30=3.35✔️ Sep14=3.30✔️ Oct31=3.25✔️This is NOT medical advice.Consult your doctor.

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Update on my topic: after four and a half weeks of little sleep I finally had a decent sleep last night.  I am going to drop again soon as today marks 6 weeks since the last drop of Mirt to 3.7 (3.4).

 

I feel very anxious a lot of the day and sad too but I just try to keep going and busy myself with stuff - which is variously gardening, housework and looking after my cat which is difficult as he is suffering and I hope I know when is the right time to euthanise him. 

 

It is not great seeing an animal you love slowly decline and I remember last year a sibling just said to me when I was considering having to move to a flat where I could not take my cat 'could you not just get another cat?' as if he was interchangeable.  No sorry sibling - my cat may just be an animal but he gave me more love in the time I have had him than I ever got from you.  Lesson learnt finally - it only took most of my adult life but I finally realised not to give any more energy or time to people that care very little about me if at all.  

 

One parent is not doing that well and once that parent is gone I will be in bandit territory - still living in in the original family home but at the mercy of hostile and indifferent people.  I don't know what will happen to me then but I am trying to prepare for it.  The parent that remains will really hit the bottle then although he is giving the bottle a real blast at the moment - he's an alcoholic and has been one all his adult life really.   Before I would have joined him at the table, drank along with him and deluded myself that I was having some sort of a relationship with him but all I was doing was enabling him.  Now I just don't join him as I don't drink anymore and his abuse of alcohol is more glaringly obvious.

 

I have gotten to the stage now after being forcibly medicated for much of my life that I am really sick of all drugs - recreational or so called psychotropics.  I have no tolerance for people that want to snort coke and this country is having an epidemic of it at the moment.  I feel  sorry for people that live in anti social areas in bad family situations like mine but with less money who use drugs as an escape from their pain...but well heeled people in their 30, 40's 50's and 60's with four wheeled drives who take coke recreationally - I have no time for them. Apparently they are showing up with heart damage - idiots.  I have no time anymore for people who have too much money and spend it on rubbish.  I can understand spending it on a nice car or house or garden but cocaine? ?? If I had money I'd get a Tesla in the morning as I've a weakness for cars but drugs...I suppose in order to get all that money they have to be very ruthless and confident in various jobs and cocaine does help you do that. 

 

Very ranty and angry this evening - it's very hot here and has been for ages and I feel trapped as usual.  I am just journaling here - there are thousands of stories on here and I'd rather ramble on here than elsewhere.   I am really sick of drink and all that rubbish.  I look at observant Muslims with envy - they never have to experience that sort of drug addiction in their homes.

 

I also gave away all the paraphernalia for a rock star that I used to follow since adolescence.  I worshiped him like a god. He was like a god as they created a shrine to him when he died and all the great and the good talked about what an amazing person he was and a genius yada yada yada.  This man had a brother who introduced him to jazz, beat poetry and some druggie author Burroughs.  His mother had had a fling with a French barman during WW2 and this man's brother was the result and then she remarried and gave birth to the rock god.  The mother and step dad treated the brother like a black sheep - in other words they severely neglected and mistreated him and he started to go down the mental illness route as a young man.  He was in and out of institutions for years.  The rock god's first wife was very good to him - she is kind of villfied now as she committed the cardinal sin for women - got old etc.  But eventually his miserable life going in and out of asylums and taking neuroleptics and social exclusion and poverty got too much for the brother and he left the asylum he was in at the time and threw himself in front of a train.  The rock God hadn't even bothered to visit him in the hospital for years.  He just abandoned him - didn't even show up to his funeral.  He had some lame ass excuse that he didn't want his appearance to distract from the solemnity of the occasion - talk about narcissism.  He didn't want to be associated with his brother but he turned up and was photographed at Marc Bolan's funeral who had died because his girlfriend crashed the car he was a passenger in  while under the influence of recreational drugs.   He went to some colleague's funeral in a fedora and a black leather coat and yet he didn't bother showing up for his own flesh and blood, for someone who had helped introduce him to music.  He treated his own brother like a leper because he had mental illness - I am so done and over with those sorts of people.   The rock god  was cremated after he died - good riddance - I hope his ashes are providing fertiliser somewhere - I will never listen to his music voluntarily again.

 

I gave all my collection to charity - just dumped it there in a box - didn't even bother selling it.  This man was at one stage in my adolescence my entire world.  I would spent hours and hours listening to his music on my own.  I would play the same record over and over again and I got the collection on cassettes and then on CD's.   I got to see him live and it was like I was seeing... I don't know...an actual divine supernatural being.  His music holds no enchantment for me any more - it's funny since I started withdrawing from drugs no music does really and I used to be a huge music fan - no more.  Now it's just annoying noise.  I can really see how narcissistic most of those musicians are - so many of them - their kids and step kids just totally ruined from neglect and as for sheer monsters like Steve Tyler...well the less said really.  

 

Tempting fate - eczema still gone.  No serious histamine issues - just chronic anxiety that is like an internal motor that doesn't go away; it goes down sometimes if I am in the garden mainly, or sitting in the car away from the house but never in the house.  I suppose I know that I am a sitting duck in the house.  I only have a licence to live here and I am not really safe here but will not leave while my cat is dying and I can't afford to buy anyplace so that's it really.  It really is important to have your own money and be financially independent - without it you are just a leaf in the wind. 

 

Oaktree1

 

 

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Dear @Oaktree1  It takes incredible stamina to get off these drugs.  Please know my thoughts are with you.

Arbor

Zoloft: 1995 - 2015

Prozac: 2015 - 2018 (tapered from 40mg x day on July 31 to 30mg on August 31 to 20mg on September 31 to 10mg October 31 to 0mg on  December 15, 2018

Gabapentin: 2016 to 2019  (tapered from 300mg x day to 150mg on August 31, 2019 to 75mg on September 15 to 50mg on September 31 to 25ishmg on October 15 to 0mg on December 1, 2019

Enalapril: 2010 - 2019

Lipitor: 2017 -2017

Metformin: 2000 - 2020

Liothyronine: 2007 - 2019

Levothyroxine: 2000 - 2022

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Thanks @arbor

 

Any thoughts in my direction are appreciated at present.  I now know the drugs were prescribed to me in the first place because I could not handle difficult feelings as a result of stuff that happened to me resulting in withdrawal and breakdown.  The question is whether I can handle the feelings generated now given that much of my life was lost to a combo of psychiatry and my own maladaptive coping methods...as of this evening I have to say I don't know.  

 

I hope things continue to improve for you.

Oaktree1🌻

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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  • Moderator
29 minutes ago, Oaktree1 said:

Thanks @arbor

 

Any thoughts in my direction are appreciated at present.  I now know the drugs were prescribed to me in the first place because I could not handle difficult feelings as a result of stuff that happened to me resulting in withdrawal and breakdown.  The question is whether I can handle the feelings generated now given that much of my life was lost to a combo of psychiatry and my own maladaptive coping methods...as of this evening I have to say I don't know.  

 

I hope things continue to improve for you.

Oaktree1🌻

Hi @Oaktree1

The good news is that you can learn to manage emotions and cope with the difficulties of life even if you've struggled with that before.  This will be easier without the fog of medication and with the support you can find here. 

 

Omw 

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Dear @Oaktree1  I can imagine the trepidation you might feel.  And I'm touched by your ability to simply not know.  It's such an honest place to be--one can in a sense relax into it, even float (Claire Weekes style!).

If it can be useful to you, I'll share that buddhism (the dharma) has felt lifesaving for me.  It's teachings continue to give me reliable wisdom into dealing with the strong feelings that come up, especially during w/d.  It would have been a plus to have grown up learning it in an environment of loving kindness, for sure, but I didn't.  Two teachers whose compassion I particularly appreciate, are Thich Nhat Hanh and Pema Chodron.  Good places to start can be, Start Where You Are (PC) or The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching (TNH).  Or you can watch talks online.  Oh, speaking of online, there are a lot of Alan Watts videos that given your sense of humor, you might like.  Maybe you already know these people.  Please forgive me if this is old hat for you or if I'm imposing.  I hold no expectations that you find it useful for yourself.

Just glad you're there🌞

Arbor

Zoloft: 1995 - 2015

Prozac: 2015 - 2018 (tapered from 40mg x day on July 31 to 30mg on August 31 to 20mg on September 31 to 10mg October 31 to 0mg on  December 15, 2018

Gabapentin: 2016 to 2019  (tapered from 300mg x day to 150mg on August 31, 2019 to 75mg on September 15 to 50mg on September 31 to 25ishmg on October 15 to 0mg on December 1, 2019

Enalapril: 2010 - 2019

Lipitor: 2017 -2017

Metformin: 2000 - 2020

Liothyronine: 2007 - 2019

Levothyroxine: 2000 - 2022

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Dear @Oaktree1, thank you so much for popping around my neck of the woods, that was very kind of you. 
 

How are you doing today? Have you started incorporating a small habit recently? I’m finding that the making sure all the dishes are done before bedtime is already a habit now after two weeks. It does take longer than that to make something a habit, but because that used to be a habit of mine in the past for a really long time my brain already had some connection there and it’s just second nature now. It’s glorious waking up without a million dishes waiting for me and then me not having the strength to do them. Much better doing them throughout the day while I can and wake up to no dishes. 
 

Sending you hugs🤗

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, for chronic pain. Had Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March10=7.25mg ✔️ April17=7.0✔️ June5=6.75✔️ July14=6.50✔️ Aug28=6.25✔️ Oct10=6.20  ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️ Dec16=5.80 ✔️ 2020➡️ Jan 21=5.60 ✔️ April2=5.40 ✔️ May29=5.20 ✔️ Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan31=4.60 mg✔️ April24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️ Aug 28=4.20 ✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov1=4.10 ✔️ Nov21= 4.05✔️ Dec13= 4mg ✔️2022 ➡️ Jan8=3.95✔️ Jan31=3.90✔️ March2=3.85 ✔️ April4=3.80 ✔️ June16=3.75✔️ July26=3.70✔️ Sep2=3.65✔️ Oct21=3.60 ✔️ Dec8=3.55✔️2023➡️ Jan 26=3.50✔️ March 17=3.45✔️ June12=3.40✔️ July30=3.35✔️ Sep14=3.30✔️ Oct31=3.25✔️This is NOT medical advice.Consult your doctor.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Update: Am badly and have been doing badly for quite a while  

 

My rage is constant.  I had a big piece written here and did not post it.  I am unsure of my reactions at present.  The rage comes out at odd intervals.  I used to be a group member of the FB group 'A view from your window'.  It was nice to see some of the views from people's windows but then today someone posted a view from the hospital window in which he is sectioned and when someone posted about not being allowed to take photos from their bed when they were sectioned it got the better of me and I posted about 'mentally ill' people not being treated with the dignity and respect accorded to 'normal' people.  Well I got rounded on badly as expected and one of the attackers was a psychiatrist with 'long' experience.  I removed my comments and left the group.  The photos of the back gardens of very affluent people doing well in life was really beginning to get to me if I am honest. 

 

I am powerless to do anything about what happened to me and about my future.  I will always be seen as a 'mentally ill' person and I think that I am to be honest.  I don't feel any hope - not reaching out for help as per rules here, just marking it here.  I am very lonely and I don't have a future.  There are very few people challenging the narrative - thankfully there are a few but you can't really challenge it from a position of isolation and powerlessness.  You can only really do so from a position of strength; having one or more of these things -   people around you who support you and love you; having financial independence;  community;  a job.   I know from reading the threads here - you have to have at least one of those things to succeed - to live.  I don't.  That's it really.  Sorry to be annoying.  I really wanted to get off drugs and be one of the success stories but I can't see any future for myself at this point even if I did get off them.  Been feeling this for quite a while really but haven't posted it; been reviewing the past to try and extract something that I could go on with but there isn't anything really.  Looking at Jordan Peterson videos - I've been the victim of both tragedy and malevolence but I can't really do anything about either of them at this stage - it's too late in my own life. 

 

So the message really is in the guidelines of this group to people before going off drugs - if your life is chaotic it's not a good time to get off them.  I would add to that that if you don't have a good support structure in your life and by that I mean one of the above i.e. job, good friends, your own place financial security etc. - you're probably better to just stay on them.  I have very little support structure and as a result probably shouldn't have come off.   I came on here because of Cymbalta which I was told to get off by doctors and have tried to stay off - it's kind of pointless.  Sorry for wasting people's time.  

 

Oaktree1

 

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I'm sorry you're hurting, @Oaktree1  Hang in there💜

Arbor

Zoloft: 1995 - 2015

Prozac: 2015 - 2018 (tapered from 40mg x day on July 31 to 30mg on August 31 to 20mg on September 31 to 10mg October 31 to 0mg on  December 15, 2018

Gabapentin: 2016 to 2019  (tapered from 300mg x day to 150mg on August 31, 2019 to 75mg on September 15 to 50mg on September 31 to 25ishmg on October 15 to 0mg on December 1, 2019

Enalapril: 2010 - 2019

Lipitor: 2017 -2017

Metformin: 2000 - 2020

Liothyronine: 2007 - 2019

Levothyroxine: 2000 - 2022

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Thinking of you @Oaktree1

Zoloft: 1995 - 2015

Prozac: 2015 - 2018 (tapered from 40mg x day on July 31 to 30mg on August 31 to 20mg on September 31 to 10mg October 31 to 0mg on  December 15, 2018

Gabapentin: 2016 to 2019  (tapered from 300mg x day to 150mg on August 31, 2019 to 75mg on September 15 to 50mg on September 31 to 25ishmg on October 15 to 0mg on December 1, 2019

Enalapril: 2010 - 2019

Lipitor: 2017 -2017

Metformin: 2000 - 2020

Liothyronine: 2007 - 2019

Levothyroxine: 2000 - 2022

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  • 2 weeks later...

When I wrote the last update I had visited my GP and asked for a referral to another shrink for ECT because I felt so low.

 

I have been reading Brendan Kelly a psychiatrist's book 'In Search of Madness'.  It was quite an enjoyable read.  It's a travelogue to mental hospitals throughout the world and in my own country with the history of how 'mental illness' was and is treated.  Each chapter starts with a case history of one of his own patients.  The tone is compassionate and I think this man genuinely believes he is doing good. 

 

The fact is that in this world if someone gets to a point of severe despair or disconnection from reality - the psychiatric system is the only place to put them, whether that's a unit or a forced drug order.   Kelly freely admits that psychiatrists do not know how drugs or ECT work on the brain and that all the neuroscientific research of the last 30 years has yielded little or no clues for why mental illness occurs.  There is little evidence of coercion in his treatment of his patients.  However the horrors of psychiatry are watered down considerably in his syntax.  Lobotomy is classed as a one of the 'greatest mistakes' in psychiatry.  Cotton's removal of his patient's organs resulting in the death of 45% of them is explained in the context of the desire at the time to bring down the large numbers of people in asylums and find other sorts of treatment that would enable their discharge - that he got carried away in his enthusiasms for a cure.  There is generally a description of his physical environment like an entertaining interlude in an Indian taxi before he launches into a description of the psychiatric system.  It has the effect of anesthetizing the reader to the full horror of what follows.  Andrew Scull wrote a book last years on psychiatry.  The material was the same - it was the treatment that was different.

 

This evening and the last few days even though I know my future is probably hopeless, I decided to go on and continue with my taper. 

 

I have been able to go on for one reason and one reason only - pure unadulterated rage.  I know too much about the results of being on the drugs.  I know I was never given the chance to give an informed consent to the drugs and I was given two of the worst - Paxil and Cymbalta.  I was told I could 'just stop' the Cymbalta as I was on 'such a low dose - 30mg'.  I know that I suffered severe akathisia after a too fast taper of the cymbalta which was partly done as a result of the dangerous liver and cholesterol levels in my blood thanks to the drug.  I know that any remaining sex drive I possessed completely died once I started Cymbalta and never recovered.  I know that the last few years I have been suffering severe PAWS from that withdrawal which was too fast at eight months.  I know that the eczema and burning hands and feet were a result of the Cymbalta.  

 

I know that I have been the victim of multiple labeling by the psychiatric system which resulted along the drugs and the trauma of my early life which was never dealt with in that system in the crapped and miserable life I have led. 

 

I know that I was never loved.  It is rage that has kept me alive - that and a lot of fantasy about myself and my abilities.  Growing up has required me to stop the fantasy that I could do things that were out of my reach and to stop the fantasy that I was basically loved and cared for.  It is pure rage now that is keeping me alive.  I am not going to say that life is worth living and that human beings are basically good and that there is hope.  I can only write from my own experience and i cannot write that human beings are basically good - that would be a lie because that was not my experience.  The truth is that life is Darwinian and that if you are weak or sick in any way you will be abandoned - you will be left behind.  That is the nature of our species.  I think it was always that way.  It is the toughest that survive and we venerate those at the top of the hierarchy.  Look at the two top 'movies' today - one concerns a pretty Australian actress at the height of her beauty playing what is considered the pinnacle of what constitutes being female - a pretty white blond doll.  The other movie focuses on the male equivalent - a scientist who designed the first atom bomb.  We venerate women for their youth and beauty and men predominantly for achievement.   It doesn't matter that the achievement was the first weapon of mass destruction.  It was the achievement and the power that are important to us.  Barbie and Oppenheimer - two people at the top of the human hierarchy.  No danger of Barbie in a strait jacket or a 60 year old wrinkled and plumb Barbie ever being manufactured  Equally there's rarely a film made about homeless or unsuccessful men unless they manage in the film to somehow become suddenly successful.  

 

The last therapist I saw actually said to me that we 'were all connected through love'.  What an idiotic thing to say but I suppose it enables her to get up in the morning.   I have a long and dreadful experience with therapists.  They're just another branch of the mental health industry - most of them deeply indifferent but I need one on side as an independent witness - I don't see her that often.  I will never trust a therapist again after my last few experiences.  It's money for old rope and most of them have their own psychological issues that they're working out through their clients.  That was my experience by and large.  I know for a fact that we are not connected through 'love' whatever that ridiculous and overused word actually even means.  I believe we all try to survive because it is inherent to the nature of an organism to do that.  That is all I am doing.  When I chase a fly around the room it senses the threat and buzzes frantically trying to save itself.  It has a tiny little brain and yet it tries to survive.  That is all I am doing.  I don't put what I am doing in the category of rubbish like 'it's never too late'; or 'things can always get better', 'where there's life there's hope'.  In my opinion that is doubtful at my stage.  But I am staying alive here in order to continue to taper off these drugs and add my voice here to the massive crime committed by the pharmaceutical companies and the over zealous and greedy doctors that support them.   Well not mainly even that to be honest.  This thread could be wiped or archived and probably the reality of what these drugs do to people won't be fully accepted by the mainstream for another 20 years.  Then all the psychiatrists and pharma heads involved will be retired on fat pensions or dead and indifferent - a corpse is always pretty indifferent I think.  No one will be held accountable.  That's in the nature of humanity. 

 

For example today in my kip of country they are going to the trouble of setting up an organisation that is going to identify the DNA of 700 or so dead babies from a mother and baby home.   The nuns threw their remains in a septic tank in Tuam throughout the early and middle years of the 20th century when the Catholic church held sway here.  The guy in charge of this ridiculous enterprise was on the radio today.  He talked about reunited the remains with their families.  That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have heard in a while.  Their families were the ones that put the women in there in the first place because they didn't want the shame.  The families are all presumably mostly dead now.  Think of the expense of this window dressing exercise in public restitution and dignity for the dead that was denied to them and their mothers in life.  That money could be spent on the thousands of children that are currently being abused in unsafe foster care instead.  That is what I mean about what is happening to the thousands of people struggling with the effects of being put on these awful drugs.  Nothing will be done in our lifetime but in another sixty years they'll probably erect some stupid sculpture about it or make a public 'apology' when there is no longer any danger of anyone being alive to make a legal claim.  It will all just be window dressing to remind ourselves or how virtuous or basically 'good' we are even though the people that knew did nothing at the time.  What a joke.  

 

Our days as a species are numbered anyway I think thank goodness but the more voices that are on record about these drugs the more chips can be taken out of the existing narrative.  If I get off this drug I will be writing to my GP  and putting her on notice of what  I went through and the damage that was done to me.  I won't do it before as she might stop my prescription.  The one thing I have learnt throughout this whole process is that you cannot trust doctors on any level.  They're really just exhausted pushers for the pharma industry most of them and they've little respect for patients with mental illness.  That's just the Gp's but psychiatrists - they're a whole other level of awful and it is awful to have two of them in family of origin.  I would rather have a family member that was a member of a violent illegal drug gang than a psychiatrist.  The arrogance of one of them is breathtaking.  

 

I don't believe that the mighty ever fall and I don't believe in karma.  By and large evil people get away with what they do - that's the nature of our species.  There are predators and prey - that's it really.  People who fall into the mental health system are prey.  Prey that is fed on by the fat cats - the shrinks that talk to the media as experts, that have summer homes in luxurious places ( think Allan Frances the father of modern psychiatry who along with some other academic shrinks pushed the sales of risperidone off label for large sums of money from Janssen).  I saw him give a talk once where he said 'he loves the beach'.  I bet he does with all the kickbacks from pharma.  'Psychiatry is a noble profession'.  Just keep saying that 'doc'.  The Nazis I think discovered that - keep repeating a lie often enough and it becomes true.  That's how stupid and gullible most people are.  That's how predators always win.  Johnson and Johnson's talc (Janssen's parent company) was a comforting childhood smell after a bath - now we know it's cancerous.  They're the same gang that manufacture risperidone and got Allen and his buddies to increase its market share by getting it prescribed off label to vulnerable foster children and older adults in care homes. I used to rely on certain smells to feel calm in a traumatic and violent childhood - the smell or Johnsons' talc was one such smell - that smell signifies something different now -  that period of ignorance is long over.  

 

I know my little rants here probably don't fit in with the protocol because they are not tied to my symptoms but they're my own journal.  No one has to read them - just flick on.  I write them for me predominantly because if there is one thing I have learnt in my 50 plus years on this benighted planet, it's this - you are on your own, you are on your own and you are on your own.  And remember the usefulness of rage - one of the old seven deadly's.  It has kept me alive when nothing else did.

 

Thanks Arbor for your posts to keep hanging in there - that was kind of you.  

 

Oaktree1

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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  • Mentor

@Oaktree1

I am so glad that you decided to keep moving forward on your journey to get off these drugs...Do it for yourself Oaktree. 

I do think love is important.  I can see that you have a great amount of feelings inside of you, I think that you care very deeply for yourself or you wouldn't feel so much hurt and anger, so if you can focus on that and help to grow self care and love towards yourself, maybe that is what  can help you get through this. There is human kindness out there.   I care about you as I am sure that other here do too.

 

I can relate to some of the anger and frustration towards the harm that was not or is not being acknowledge when it comes to these drugs..... My psychiatrist admitted to me that these drugs are poison to some people.

She did also say that they help some people.   My guess is the mass majority of people on these drugs really don't need them and some may even get worse on them.  The amount of people that are on drug cocktails show me that they are missing something.. One drug is not working for whatever reason, so add more on, withdrawal or adr, drug poop out so let's add something on.  Sometimes I am not sure but  you seem to think that you are mentally ill at times (as we all do) but really it could just be your drugs/withdrawal/ptsd/childhood trauma/.  Hold on, fight to find out who you really are after you heal from this TEMERARY brain injury.   I wonder if we are the generation that is coming out and showing the long term hurt from these drugs.  I am 60 years old and started these drugs in the mid to late 1990's.  Guinee pigs.  All we can do is take care of ourself first and try to speak out about what happened and is happening to us.

 

Please do this for you Oaktree.  I may not be with you physically but I am, as well as many other,  walking the same path to healing from these drugs.  I care about you and hope you can feel that and hold it in your heart.  We are so close to being drug free, focus on that day when you can look in the mirror and say you did it, be proud of yourself and your courage to fight on to see who you really are.

 

Heidi

 

 

 

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24894-greatful-is-this-withdrawal-or-to-many-med-changes-at-once/

1995? Prozac,  tried several Paxil, Serzone, St John's Wart back to Prozac and Trazodone ct:d Traz

 Lexapro. Tried to stop Crash in 2015  Kindled   Hospitalized, Vybrid, Seroquel, Effexor, Abilify  Pristiq, Wellbutrin-- 2016  ended back on   Prozac and Lamictal 200mg

5/2020  thru 12/2020 taper from 20mg  Prozac  down to 3mg.  Crashed  12/13/2020 Zoloft 50mg 1/29ct  1/29/2021 Seroquel 50mg ct  2/12/2021 Wellbutrin 75mg.  Became hypo manic 2/1  6ct Trazodone 50mg 4/25  25mg 2/5/ 2021 Lamictal 150mg.  2/24  100mg   4/9  75mg   4/21 37.5 

2/16/2021 Seroquel 50xr  3/3 100mg  3/17  150mg  side effects ct   4/3 2021 Lexapro 5mg  4/14  7.5mg  4/30 10mg  5/10  7.5mg 

2021/ 5/16  5mg Lexapro   37.5 Lamictal   25mg trazadone,   xanax  .0625mg  3x a day   

Lexapro  Taper> Sept/01/2021  4.90mg>  Sept/25  4.75mg>   Oct/19 4.69mg > Nov/14 4.2mg    Jan/30/2022-- Split dosing 2x a day All liquid  4.2mg  (2.20mg at 8am & 2mg at 4pm) 2/17 4mg>  2/24  3.8mg  slow taper to  Aug/12/2022 2.04mg  2023> 2mg,  1.90mg, 1.80mg, 1.70mg, 1.5mg, 1.4mg, 1.3mg 1.2mg, 1.1mg, 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.8mg, 0.7mg 0.65mg, 0.6mg, 0.55mg, 0.5mg, 0.45mg, 0.4mg, 0.35mg, 0.3mg, 0.25,mg, back to once a day dosing 0 .1mg, 0.07mg

Lamictal  taper  4/17/ 2022 25mg, 9/9/ 22 -20mg, 9/25/22- 15mg , 10/20/22-   0

 Trazodone..2023.>down to 14mg, 7mg, 6mg  July 2023   0

Xanax  0.0625 3 x a day,  2023>  0.042 3x a day

Supplements  Magnesium glycinate, Omega 3, D3, vitamin c , zinc, NAC 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Glad to hear from you @Oaktree1  I hear in your rage a lot of my own.  To look truthfully often means having to stand alone--which is very difficult to do, and then harder still when we're dealing with neuro-emotions.  (Right now I can find it hard to register good feelings, and nearly impossible not to feel the terrible.)  Please know that for whatever it's worth, I am with you.

Arbor

Zoloft: 1995 - 2015

Prozac: 2015 - 2018 (tapered from 40mg x day on July 31 to 30mg on August 31 to 20mg on September 31 to 10mg October 31 to 0mg on  December 15, 2018

Gabapentin: 2016 to 2019  (tapered from 300mg x day to 150mg on August 31, 2019 to 75mg on September 15 to 50mg on September 31 to 25ishmg on October 15 to 0mg on December 1, 2019

Enalapril: 2010 - 2019

Lipitor: 2017 -2017

Metformin: 2000 - 2020

Liothyronine: 2007 - 2019

Levothyroxine: 2000 - 2022

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On 7/21/2023 at 4:59 PM, Greatful said:
On 7/21/2023 at 4:59 PM, Greatful said:

My psychiatrist admitted to me that these drugs are poison to some people.

She did also say that they help some people.   My guess is the mass majority of people on these drugs really don't need them and some may even get worse on them

do think love is important.  I can see that you have a great amount of feelings inside of you, I think that you care very deeply for yourself or you wouldn't feel so much hurt and anger, so if you can focus on that and help to grow self care and love towards yourself, maybe that is what  can help you get through this. There is human kindness out there.   I care about you as I am sure that other here do too.

Greatful,

 

Thank you for your kind and insightful post on my thread.  You have a lot of empathy and wisdom and  compassion in you.  I think that is why you can connect so well with so many people on here.  I don't have much of your attributes - that is partly why I don't connect so well with people among other things.  I tried hard to connect with others throughout my life but couldn't really by and large.  From the site the Crappy Childhood fairy I see a little bit why that was and why I was excluded so much but it doesn't make me like people any better because I was still excluded and the experience of that is painful. 

 

Being publicly diagnosed with multiple mental illness and seeing most of your family as a result treat you like garbage in addition to having my so called friends discard me does not endear me to my own species and the resulting distrust and anger and fear emanating from me makes me even less endearing to my own species so it's a vicious circle haha.   

 

I agree with you - I do think that 'love' is important but in my own experience it was conditional or transactional - something that could be taken away.  I was never really loved unconditionally in my entire life.  I suppose the fact that you put a kind post on my thread means that there is kindness out there but I tend to wear out my welcome.  I find self love difficult because if no one ever really loved you then how do you start with that   (rhetorical question)?  I don't really know what love is to be honest - I only really knew people who were wrapped up in their own needs and desires and were unable to look outside of themselves to others. 

 

Even the only woman that I thought ever cared for me was on that selfish trip herself.  She wanted a kid of her own and she was ultimately an employee (my mother's nanny) in that family.  She drove the wedge that already existed between me and my mother even wider while I was a child by telling my mother that I preferred my father to her and encouraging my dependence and reliance on her over my mother.  If I went to call my mother she would say in a sarcastic voice 'Oh she wants to go  back to her little mummy'.  She wanted effectively to be my mother; she liked having that power.  That damaged the relationship between me and my mother even further and she encouraged my reliance on her throughout my childhood and young adulthood - encouraging me not to stay in the university residence and stay with her because 'it was lonely' in the residence.   She was a good woman and had a lot of kindness in her but ultimately it was her own need that drove her to encourage me to stay dependent on her - something that started in early childhood and continued well into adult life. 

 

Therapists have said to me 'well she didn't realise what she was doing' but I wonder.  I do know that she was thinking of herself when she encouraged me to remain dependent whether it was conscious or not.  She never wondered to herself while I stayed with her during my adolescence why I didn't have any friends never mind a  boyfriend and why I spent most of my time in my room.  She was happy that it was that way because I was with her.  She didn't mind that I did not develop as a separate person but remained reliant on her.  She grew me like an plant (which she was very good with ) to depend on her.  She tried this to a lesser extent with my other two siblings.  One of them was ruthless and cut her off completely.  The other one knew how to establish strong boundaries while remaining kind and keeping in contact with her.  Of course if I had been more mentally healthy and had developed strong  boundaries of my own, this would not have happened.  But I wasn't like that  - I was fragile and volatile and she was the only person I felt 'safe' with so the years passed and the relationship continued like that. 

 

If my parents had been able to provide parenting rather than participate in a drama of their own, that dependence would not have developed but it did.  If my parents had loved me but they didn't - there it is.  Maybe in the future AI will be able to predict which people should procreate and which people should not and further pain to defenseless and vulnerable children will be avoided.   Although with the way the powerful of us operate it's probably be just another variant of eugenics - the creation of a disease free super- race.

 

The closest I came to love was a cat and a dog.  Animals never reject or abandon you no matter what state you are in - they may not speak or be able to earn money but they never turn away from you.  One day when I came home from my crappy customer service job taking abuse on the phone all day I was sitting out in the yard crying  and the dog came over and licked the tears off my face.  I never experienced that with a human being though so it's hard to know how to love myself at all.  But it is a good idea of you to suggest it  - if all we have is ourselves one at least has to learn to accept, if not love, oneself.  

 

I saw a young boy around 12 or 13 the other day sitting on the footpath with his legs splayed out in front of him - he looked so forlorn and sad.  On Stephens Day (the day after Christmas day which is a big celebration in the kip i live in) I went for a walk on the pier on my own and I saw a boy around the same age - maybe a bit older 14/15 walking by himself with a rucksack.  We were both on our own while surrounded by families that were out walking off their Stephens Day lunch with their dogs.  The families were mostly I would imagine replete with food and full of happiness, laughing and talking among themselves.  I had seen the boy earlier sitting on a wall that jutted out into the bay by himself.  He was just looking out a the bay.  He looked so lonely and sad.  We both walked at a distance from each other.   I don't know what this boy's story was - was he homeless or trying to get a few hours respite from an abusive 'home'.  You don't need to be psychic to know that something in his life was wrong.  Teenage kids do not go out walking on their own on a major 'family' holiday. 

 

It always the lonely kids I feel sorry for - those who are not part of a gang - who don't have the comfort of friends.  You see them out the odd time.  I can see it too occasionally in families.  I once saw a father out with his two children - a boy and a girl.  He treated the girl with great cruelty, alternatively ignoring her or speaking to her contemptuously while lavishing praise on the boy.  I looked at the girls face - it was all shriveled up with fear while she hurried along trying to keep up with her 'father' and brother.    It's moments like that that I really hate people, hate them with real passion.  A family can be a petri dish that cultivates the destruction of small souls.  And that commandment in the Bible to 'honour your father and mother' in the light of what parents do to vulnerable children all over the world is a barbaric edict. 

 

Your Quote "

My psychiatrist admitted to me that these drugs are poison to some people.

She did also say that they help some people.   My guess is the mass majority of people on these drugs really don't need them and some may even get worse on them"

 

i can't seem to copy and paste the multiquote properly - it is really annoying.  I think you are right there although that won't get past most psychiatrists and I have met a lot of people who wouldn't even think of giving up their drugs.  They don't question it at all.  They say things like 'well I had come off my meds' and blame themselves for their bad decisions and resultant emotional lability.  I have heard it on a few occasions.  They don't make the link between the drug and their emotional state.  I've seen people in support groups slump over and say 'well I'm just back from 'x' hospital  They just have to get the med cocktail right' and they go in and out and in and out of the hospital with total resignation to it.   I used to be one of them too at one point.

 

On 7/21/2023 at 4:59 PM, Greatful said:

Hold on, fight to find out who you really are after you heal from this TEMERARY brain injury.   I wonder if we are the generation that is coming out and showing the long term hurt from these drugs.  I am 60 years old and started these drugs in the mid to late 1990's.  Guinee pigs.  All we can do is take care of ourself first and try to speak out about what happened and is happening to us.

 

Yes that is all we can do if we can and we were guinea pigs like all psychiatric patients have been down through the years.  I often think well if I had been born in the 1930's I would have lived most of my life in an asylum and been given insulin therapy or maybe a lobotomy so I suppose it could have been worse. 

 

I was reading about James Joyce's daughter last night -she was diagnosed eventually as schizophrenic and spent most of her life in an asylum.    She had been a successful dancer but had a series of bad love affairs which appear to have driven her around the twist along with a hothouse relationship with her father while her mother hated her (probably jealous).  She became violent - threw a chair at her mother and had rages and was locked up.   Her father loved her and tried to help but once he died, her mother and brother who appear to have been really really really horrible people just locked her up and threw away the key for the rest of her life.  The 'family' burnt all her correspondence too - the letters between her and her father.  Yes - sometimes - families are just deeply toxic and some members are destroyed to allow the survival of others.    Trying to look at the bright side of it that I was not put in an asylum as there are none left.  It is good that you are speaking up to your psychiatrist about it and that is all we can do.   

 

On 7/21/2023 at 4:59 PM, Greatful said:

We are so close to being drug free, focus on that day when you can look in the mirror and say you did it, be proud of yourself and your courage to fight on to see who you really are.

Yep, that is about it - we just have to fight on.  You have gone down really low in your taper and are getting there.  I do listen to Mad in America podcasts too sometimes to buoy myself up a bit the odd time.  Thank you for your empathy and understanding Greatful.  I appreciate it. 

 

Oaktree1

Currently tapering Mirtazapine; previously tapered Cymbalta 30mg from June 2018-Feb 2019 and Seroquel 150mg to zero from Oct-December 2020.

Supplements for Hashimoto's disease and histamine issues relating to Mirtazapine:   Vitamin D3 1,000mcg, bio-identical HRT, Selenium, Quercetin, Lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega 3.

Mirtazapine Taper: 2021 16th Aug -  transitioned to liquid from tablet by dissolving two 15mg tablets into a solution of 15 ml water and 15 ml maple syrup on a starting dose of what I thought was 7.5ml; 17 Sept  - 7.31; 24 Sept  - 7.13; 15 Oct  - 6.95; 6 Nov  - 6.78; 21 Nov  - 6.61; 5 Dec  - 6.51;

2022 - 1 Jan 6.41; 1 Feb  - 6.1; 9 Mar -  5.8; 13 Mar - 5.9; 7 Apr - 5.8; 21 Apr - 5.7; 7 May - 5.63; 23 May - 5.55; 8 June 5.50;  (got COVID on 12th June so held); 1 July 5.4; 15 July 5.32; 8 Aug 5.2; 15 Aug 5.1; 22 Aug 5; 19 Sept 4.9; 2 Oct 4.81; 13 Oct 4.71; (COVID Booster 17/10/22 so longer hold ); 1 Nov 4.65; 3 Nov 4.60; 10 Nov 4.55; 13 Nov 4.50; 17 Nov 4.45; 20 Nov 4.40;  2 Dec 4.30mg; 9 Dec 4.20mg; I discovered that the volumetric container measured 33ml rather than 30ml in Dec 2022. Following helpful advice from moderator OnMyWay (see her  reply of the 5th March) discovered taper with the dilution was 3.8mg (calculated by dividing 30/33 so that every 1ml of solution has  0.90ml of Mirtazapine.  7.50 - 0.90= 6.6ml which was the starting dose on 16th Aug 2021 not 7.5ml).  I decided to keep using the solution as I didn't want more change to deal with than I had to.

2023 17 Mar 4.1(3.7); 26 Mar 4.0(3.6); 14 Apr 3.9(3.51)28 Apr 3.8(3.42); 6 Jun 3.7(3.33); 19 Jun 3.6(3.24); 30 Jun 3.5(3.1); 19 Jul 3.4(3.06); 27 Jul 3.35 (3.01); 29 Jul 3.3 (2.97); 4 Aug 3.25 (2.92); 7 Aug 3.2 (2.88); 21 Aug 3.1 (2.79); 14.09 3 (2.7); 29th Sept 2.9(2.61); 15 Oct 2.8(2.52); 30 Oct 10 2.7(2.43); 13 Nov 2.65(2.38); 20 Nov 2.6(2.34); 26 Nov 2.55(2.29); 10 Dec 2.5(2.25); 

2024 - 14 Jan 2.45(2.20); 22 Jan 2.40(2.16); 29 Jan 2.35(2.11); 2 Feb 2.3 (2.07);15 Feb 2.25(2.02); 22 Feb 2.21 (1.98); 29 Feb 2.17(1.95); 7 Mar 2.13(1.91); 21 Mar 2.05 (1.84);

 

This is not 'medical advice' - my 'non medical advice' is don't get any more 'medical advice' or you may end up getting more 'medical treatment' i.e more drugs, DSM labels and/or ECT.   Please do not PM me thanks.

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