VaultOne

[VaultOne]

Hi, 
 My situation - I jumped off Zoloft January 1, 2021 after a 10% monthly reduction from 100 mg. I jumped off during a period of stability with less than 10% milligrams which I realize now was a mistake. I should have gone down further.  At that time i began and have continued,  talk therapy weekly, eliminated all sugar, carbs, caffeine, alcohol, and do cardio and meditation daily. I knew it was going to be a difficult journey even in the best case scenario.  After two weeks WD symptoms began. I have experienced most all WD symptoms; lightheadedness, band around the head, depersonalization, derealization, crying spells, fatigue, digestive issues, brain zaps, etc. All of these came and went over the four months. I felt that I was past the worst but I had constant muscle tension in the shoulders and neck and extreme tension through most of the day. This did not subside for two weeks. I felt like my entire system was turned upside down. Then insomnia. Zero sleep and I panicked. Called psych doc and he reinstated. Another huge mistake but at this point, like so many, I was debilitated, exhausted and desperate. I thought I knew enough to slowly increase up to his recommended dosage which was 50 mg. I did so at what I thought was slow enough. Third mistake.  He also prescribed .25 of Xanax for sleep. Fourth mistake.

I felt OK the first 2 to 3 weeks after reinstatement. But random insomnia pursued and then panic returned.  I assumed the panic was on boarding side effects for the Zoloft. However as my use of the Xanax increased, not amount, still only .25-.50 per use, but frequency for insomnia, I began to feel worse during the day for the past 7-10 days. I felt as if I was going through interdosing withdrawal during the day.  I took my last Xanax two nights ago never touch it again. The past two nights I have again slept zero hours.

However I feel as if I am now hypersensitive and/or must be experiencing benzo withdrawal. Prickly nerve endings, extreme shaky legs, hyper sensitive anxiety type feelings, tight shoulders and neck, high anxiety etc. Somewhat different from my WD experience with Zoloft. OR Is this the infamous kindling? or just coming off the Xanax?

I called my psych doc today. He said that I should not experience any more withdrawal from the benzo‘s because I only took them less than 20 days total at a low dosage. However he never really acknowledge that I might be in a very sensitive state from withdrawal. 

He also prescribed Seroquel for insomnia. Which I do not intend to take. Like so many Docs, he did not even want to hear about me feeling like my nervous system was shredded and I should not add anything else to it at this point. 

If I did throw myself into kindling by utilizing the Xanax or up dosing any ideas on how long it will last?

My intention is to stabilize at the 50 mg Zoloft for as long as needed and then begin to re-taper. 

I think I was pretty stable for the first couple of weeks even though I went to far up too fast.  Now that I’ve gone through this with the Xanax I just don’t know.

I have read the section here on insomnia and will be trying some of those tips tonight. It is very difficult going 48 hours with zero sleep as I’m sure some of you can attest.

Thanks in advance for any insight. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @VaultOne

 

Yes, you could be experiencing benzo withdrawal syndrome. Your psychiatrist is wrong. Print this out for him.

 

September 2020 FDA Requiring Labeling Changes for Benzodiazepines
 

Quote

 

Physical dependence can occur when benzodiazepines are taken steadily for several days to weeks. 

 

 

 

 

How has your sleep pattern change in the last 2 weeks? Do you have any Xanax left?

 

How has increasing to 50mg Zoloft affected you? What time of day do you take it?

[VaultOne]

20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Welcome, @VaultOne

 

Yes, you could be experiencing benzo withdrawal syndrome. Your psychiatrist is wrong. Print this out for him.

 

September 2020 FDA Requiring Labeling Changes for Benzodiazepines

 

Quote

How has your sleep pattern change in the last 2 weeks?

I have had insomnia for about two months, it began during WD and before reinstatement.

 

Do you have any Xanax left? I do but haven’t taken again.

 

How has increasing to 50mg Zoloft affected you? My anxiety is still present but less, Some either WD or onboarding side effects have returned/started and have yet to abate after five weeks of reinstatement. IBS, nasal vibration sensation, lightheadedness, fogginess and of course the insomnia.

 

What time of day do you take it? I take it in the am.

 

I feel I am stuck between WD or Onboarding a new drug.    

 

Should I begin to taper again or wait it out until the eight week mark to see if these side effects diminish and I stabilize more?

 

Thank you.

 

[Altostrata]

When you go on and off drugs, you can react poorly to dosages you previously took without major problems.

 

We don't think much of enduring adverse effects during "onboarding" here. We're not about treating "depression", we just want to make going off drugs more comfortable.

 

It takes less than a week for Zoloft to reach steady-state in your bloodstream. When did you increase to 50mg? How did you feel at lower dosages?

[VaultOne]

 

I see. Thank you for the clarification. I increased to 50 mg five weeks ago. I felt better the first two weeks and then the episode with the Xanax on and off I think really set me back and confused whatever good, (or bad) the reinstatement of the Zoloft was doing. 

 

As of today, I am felling ok, still the WD symptoms I described above, IBS, nasal vibration sensation, light-headedness, fogginess, some panic and of course the insomnia.

 

My question, should I just hold at the 50 Zoloft in hopes that these side WD symptoms subside then re taper?

 

I did a search for kindling. However I am still a little confused on the symptoms of Kindling or crashing are to keep a look out for them as I move through this process.

 

Thank you.

 

[Altostrata]

Kindling occurs when you add a drug to a sensitized nervous system, not when you go off a drug.

 

Since you went off Xanax only last Monday, some of your symptoms may be due to benzo withdrawal. How did your sleep pattern change after you stopped taking Xanax?

[VaultOne]

That makes sense. That is why I did not want to take the Seroquel. Not the only reason mind you but certainly one of the reasons.

 

It got much worse the two nights immediately following going off the Xanax but has slightly improved towards the end of the week. Averaging 3 to 4 hours a night and not consistent. Meaning I sleep wake up sleep wake up sleep wake up. Probably like a lot of people who have been through this I’m just going to have to be patient and try all the tips given here and it will eventually come back.  

 

Thank you

[Altostrata]

8 minutes ago, VaultOne said:

Averaging 3 to 4 hours a night and not consistent.

 

This is not too bad for just having gone off a benzo. Being patient and letting your system settle down is on the right track.

 

Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if that Zoloft dosage is causing problems.

[VaultOne]

Boy I made a huge mistake. A quick history: I was on various AD’s over 20 years. The latest was Zoloft 150 mg. I weaned off at 10% a month for over a year. After all that work, I made an error and jumped off at little less than 10 mg. According to my Pdoc I was well below the therapeutic dose so it wouldn’t make any difference and I would not have any effects. After two weeks I hit WD and stayed there for five months. Once the insomnia hit, I threw in the towel and decided to reinstate. Knowing there was a risk I went slowly but still in retrospect I went to too high a dosage. However, after three months I did mostly stabilize at 50mg. I was still having some breakthrough anxiety, minor sleep issues, week extremities and some flu like nasal sensations but mild. But most of the other WD symptoms had settled down. My new Pdoc which does at least acknowledge WD to some degree really wanted me to go up more on the Zoloft, to 75. She really thought that the last of the WD issues would resolve. I hesitantly agreed to go up but slowly. 

My misstate was I went up too much and I had a very adverse reaction. I added 5mg. I think I kindled myself. After the third day at 55mg I noticed that my anxiety went through the roof, twitches/muscle spasms begin throughout my body and eyes, hyperactivity, sensitivity to sound went through the roof, flu like symptoms, face and teeth sensations, extreme shoulder muscle tension, vision problems and nighttime and morning anxiety peeked, and sleep sucks. 

 

Is this kindling? On day five I immediately dropped back down to 50mg however I am still experiencing the above to some degree.

 

I feel as the reinstatement has helped the WD symptoms but has not helped with the original reason I was on Zoloft which was Panic Disorder. I think that ship has sailed.

 

Any guess how long until I might stabilize again?

 

Should I hold at 50 for a while and then begin to reduce or reduce a little now, like 1 or 1.5% to hopefully alleviate the current effects? 

My suggestion to anyone reading this is to heed the advice of the mods and suggestions on this site. I thought I might have a different experience, but I was wrong. 

[VaultOne]

Boy I made a huge mistake. My new Pdoc which does at least acknowledge WD to some degree really wanted me to go up more on the Zoloft, to 75. She really thought that the last of the WD issues would resolve. I hesitantly agreed to go up slowly. 

My misstate was I went up too much and I had a very adverse reaction. I added 5mg. I think I kindled myself. After the third day at 55mg I noticed that my anxiety went through the roof, twitches/muscle spasms begin throughout my body and eyes, hyperactivity, sensitivity to sound went through the roof, flu like symptoms, face and teeth sensations, extreme shoulder muscle tension, vision problems and nighttime and morning anxiety peeked, and sleep sucks. 

 

Is this kindling? On day five I immediately dropped back down to 50mg however I am still experiencing the above to some degree.

 

I feel as the reinstatement has helped the WD symptoms but has not helped with the original reason I was on Zoloft which was Panic Disorder. I think that ship has sailed.

 

Any guess how long until I might stabilize again?

 

Should I hold at 50 for a while and then begin to reduce or reduce a little now, like 1 or 1.5% to hopefully alleviate the current effects and then continue my tapering?

 

My suggestion to anyone reading this is to heed the advice of the mods and suggestions on this site. I thought I might have a different experience, but I was wrong. 

[getofflex]

Previous post moved to your intro topic to keep your history all in one place.  Please post questions and discussion about your situation in this one thread, to avoid confusion and duplication of efforts.  Thank you.  

[VaultOne]

Absolutely. Thank you for doing that.  

[VaultOne]

Anyone have any suggestions? I am still having feeling the results of trying to increase. Should I hold at 50 or will my adverse reactions only subside if I deacrese slowly? I have never kindled beofre, which is what I think happened. 

 

Thanks, 

[VaultOne]

@brassmonkey

@Altostrata

@getofflex

 

 I know you Mods are so busy helping so many. I was just hoping you could guide me on my next move. As stated above I think I kindled going up 5 mg. I am experiencing hypersensitivity/activity, restless legs, twitches, increased anxiety and more.

Should I hold at 50 or should I begin to taper down? When someone kindles from an increase and drops back down will they stabilize eventually? Or did I open pandoras box and ruin the benefits of reinstatement? Any recommendations are really appreciated.

 

Thank you so much. R  

 

[Altostrata]

You went back to 50mg Zoloft 6 days ago? How has your symptom pattern changed over the 6 days?

 

You might inform your doctor that your reaction to that increase is an example of kindling.

[VaultOne]

Thank you for taking the time to speak to me. Yes I reduced back down to 50mg from 55. six days ago. I spoke to my Dr. and she agreed. 

 

Still feeling active, increased anxiety and some other effects. 

 

Do you think I can stablize again at 50? I was woundering if I runied my reinstatment with the increase. 

 

Thank you again.  

[Altostrata]

Have you felt any changes in your symptom pattern over the last 5 days?

[VaultOne]

 I have felt a slight improvement in a few and none in others. Improvement in Moring anxiety, restless leg and some of the muscle twitching and irritability. No improvement in overall general anxiety, sound sensitivity, vison ‘haze’ and DP/DR feelings. I suppose that some improvement is good. 
 I reinstated 3 months ago and while I was feeling quite a bit of relief from most WD symptoms I haven’t had more than a few days without some symptoms and anxiety, although milder than before I reinstated. I really want to begin tapering again as soon as possible. I feel lucky I didn’t have an adverse reaction getting to 50.
Once sensitized from kindling, when I do begin to taper, do I need to go even slower than 10% reduction? I definitely will implement the Brass Monkey method of reduction this time. 
 

[Altostrata]

You will need to wait until your system has settled down from the change.

[VaultOne]

 

Thank you. 

[VaultOne]

I know it’s  possible to experience windows and waves after/during reinstating but for how long? 
I jumped off at about 10 mg. and I was in protracted withdrawal for five months before reinstating Zoloft. I titrated up to 50 mg until my symptoms began to improve and I have been holding at 50 for 3 1/2 months. Most of the WD effects have definitely improved but I still have some feeling of WD every day. Mostly it’s weak legs, anxiety, muscle twitches, sporadic insomnia, vision problems, some DP/DR, flulike symptoms, light headed, restless legs at night etc. not all at once but rotates based on the day or week. Definitely improved but still present.  I’m functioning better than I was.  I have read incessantly about reinstatement and understand that any improvement is a good sign. 

 

At what point should I determine that this is good as it’s going to get and begin tapering again?

 

Should I continue to hold at 50 for more months and stabilization before beginning to taper again?

 

Can I expect more stabilization?

 

Can kindling occur when tapering or just when adding a drug? . 

 

thank you.
 

@Altostrata

@Shep

@brassmonkey

[brassmonkey]

You want to see several weeks with no big swings in symptoms. Then you can start to consider tapering again.

[VaultOne]

Thank you @brassmonkey

 

In your experience have you ever noted a reinstatement to prolong WD symptoms? Or if a reinstatement does show improvement early on does that improvement increase with longer holding time?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

7 hours ago, VaultOne said:

Mostly it’s weak legs, anxiety, muscle twitches, sporadic insomnia, vision problems, some DP/DR, flulike symptoms, light headed, restless legs at night etc. not all at once but rotates

 

What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages? Are these symptoms better or worse at any particular times of day? How has your sleep pattern changed in the last month?

[VaultOne]

I take the 50 mg every morning at 8:30 with food. Yes my sleep patterns have changed coincidentally the past two nights I’ve had severe insomnia. Sleep had improved  but due to an extremely stressful week last week I believe the insomnia is a delayed reaction.  I also have recently begun restless legs and pretty consistent twitching throughout my legs which is relatively new.  
 

my symptoms are typically worse in the morning and improves about the day except for the restless leg which is at its worst in the evenings.  

 

I guess I just don’t know what constitutes a successful reinstatement to hold at before tapering.

 

thank you for taking the time to speak with me.

[Altostrata]

What do you mean by restless leg?

 

Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

[VaultOne]

I do keep a daily journal I will add that here.

 

I feel like in the evenings my legs are very energetic and I have to get up and walk around and do stretches to get them to calm down. They also twitch pretty consistently throughout the day. This is a new sensation for me.

[lookingrelief]

@VaultOne how have you been doing? are you still staying at 50 mg?  have you found some stability?  Has your insomnia gotten any better?

When you did your reinstatement of 5, 10, 20 and 30 mg how long did you wait until each updose and why those particular mg?

[VaultOne]

@lookingrelief I titrated up over several weeks. I believe it was four. My psychiatrist at the time was encouraging me to get to 50. He wanted me to start at 25 and then jump to 50 but I knew that seemed too fast. I have been holding at 50 for 3 1/2 almost 4 months now. My insomnia has improved but is very sporadic. I’ll sleep good like five -six hours a night and then have a night where I’m awake all night.  Then I’ll sleep pretty well a couple of  nights and then I’m up and down another night. I chalk it up to daily stressors that I need to manage better. My reinstatement has gone OK considering I waited five months to reinstate. I now know that was very risky. And most of my WD symptoms have calmed down, some gone, some few and far between and others are minor but are still present daily. Some are relatively new like the twitching in my legs. 

[92sharks]

@VaultOneI came to your intro. You seem like you are doing all the right things. And you seem like you are able to get attention from some good people. It is so clear how much you want answers and how much you want to feel better/have fewer wd symptoms. It also seems like you really have been suffering. One of the most difficult things about wd is our healing time is unpredictable. There is no way to know when we are going to feel better. I had vertigo for 8 days with my last drop (plus a forgotten dose). In looking at my signature 8 days sounds doable. No big deal. What was I worried about? Yet during those 8 days I was panicked, knowing I had screwed myself and thinking I could be this way for weeks, months, or the rest of my life, all while having to go back up on my ADs. None of that happened. After 8 days I was back to where I had started. My point is, wd has it's own time line. Our CNS recovery has it's own time line. No one can tell you when you'll feel better. BUT, in reading your posts, you are doing better. Incredibly slowly, but you are doing better. And occasionally there are additional symptoms that seems to tell you something else is going wrong. Try to look at it that if there's something new and you've stayed on course, no changes in meds, that your CNS/brain is adjusting. It is working to get better; healing. As awful as restless legs are and especially as difficult as poor sleep is, your brain is making changes in order to function with less medication.  And some of these symptoms feel worse, like you're moving in the wrong direction, but your brain will fix them. I used to view the wd and outside events/stress as separate entities. Now I realize that no matter the source the same CNS is being affected. So I am more careful to acknowledge life's stresses, even a cold or the Covid vaccination, can wreak havoc on a sensitive CNS. Read the last sentence of your signature. "Trying to stabilize at 50mg". That is EXACTLY what your CNS is trying to do. Your job, as bad as it feels right now, is probably to hold at 50mg (I think). That you can keep constant. Do not add any drugs. Put the tapering in the back of your mind. Listen to yourself, your body, your mind. Your are desperate because you feel so bad. We've all been there or are currently there with our own symptoms. It is completely understandable. Keep at your current dose. Keep posting. Keep reading other's stories in moderation if it causes you anxiety (it does many of us). Keep asking questions. But don't even think of tapering anytime soon. Live your life. Look back at your symptoms in a couple of weeks to see if you see any improvement. Try some vagal stimulation breathing, mild exercise, meditation(even 5-10min), acupuncture, anything that makes you feel the tiniest bit better. I'm glad you see a therapist. Focus on doing those things and stop focusing on when you can taper. You've gone through A LOT medications wise in the last couple of months. Most of the time, more meds are not going to help. MDs and psychiatrists are BIG on adding meds. So are some therapists. I have had to say no to additional meds on more than one occasion. And thank goodness I had the sense to do so or I would be trying to get off of multiple meds. I did not have strong arguments for why I said no, but what I did know from taking ADs for many years was that meds aren't what I needed more of. Eventually, when I was not supported by my psychiatrist on tapering, I quit and have since just asked my family physician to write prescriptions for my ADs. You will have to stay strong and true to what you want and what you believe in. Remember, you know what is best for you. Even people on SA, including myself don't know what is best for you. If anything I have said doesn't feel right for you, don't do it. I am definitely not a licensed medical expert. Try getting relief through slow, self-care routines. Time is your best friend. Use it. I would not think of tapering for several weeks or months. You WILL get off of Zoloft. But the goal is to feel the best you can and live the best life you can while slowly tapering. It is not to hurry and get off and then you'll feel better. You won't. Wd will find you. We have to outwit and out-patience wd and these ADs. The meds have made physiological changes to our brains and CNSs. Our brains and CNSs have the ability to heal themselves, but it takes lots of time of holding and very small, slow tweaks in tapering. It isn't fair. But that's our job if we want to be free of these meds. ❤️❤️