Cage190: My cold turkey history

[ChessieCat]

On 11/24/2021 at 5:57 PM, Cage190 said:

fter reading your signature, I can see clearly that your mistake was wearing off so fast from clompiramine. Just try it with a little bit, maybe 3 mg and wait.

 

@Cage190

 

Please do NOT make dose suggestions to members.  It is okay to talk about reinstatement, but it would be better to say that the member should ask the staff about this in their own Introduction topic.

[Lilly998]

@Cage190 Thanks so much for ur advice really appreciate it 

[Cage190]

On 11/24/2021 at 6:08 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

@Cage190

 

Please do NOT make dose suggestions to members.  It is okay to talk about reinstatement, but it would be better to say that the member should ask the staff about this in their own Introduction topic.

 

Sorry, she just asked and I just wanted to be polite. I thought about adding the classic "please I'm just a newbie ask to the staff" (you can check in any post that I always add this).

 

I believed that trying that dose (3 mg) seemed an a good option. The poor girl has been 8 months battling an a really difficult WD with an a minimal improvement. She doesn't show an a clinical picture of neurotoxicity, so it seemed clear to me that reinstantment at a low dose was an a good idea.

 

Anyway, please @Lilly998 obey what the staff says. My apologies to the staff. 

[Lilly998]

On 11/24/2021 at 5:57 PM, Cage190 said:

 

@Cage190 I am so sorry that my question to u caused this 🌸🙏🏻

U are such a Good man, really 

God bless u 🌸🙏🏻

[DataGuy]

On 11/24/2021 at 5:23 PM, Cage190 said:

Update: After 2 months, the improvement has been being more and more notable. I believe that in 2 years I'm going to be able to return to my studies. 

 

I still have waves - and for some days they hit really hard - but the windows always compensate that. I have both in a 50-50% relation. As you said, @DataGuy, they are some weeks that the improvement is so mild that I cannot feel any improvement. But soon or later, the improvement follows. 

 

By now, my brain is still - in some ways - disabled. I still have intrusive thoughts (but less than 2 months ago), my anger is getting vanished but I'm still suffering from anger outbursts (always mental/non physical). I can feel how, every month, I can reconnect myself with reality (I live in a little town, in a mountain environment) and feel the nature. I feel more human, more alive, more calm. My akathisia is getting mild everyday, in a very, very gradual way. But I'm afraid that the improvement is going to eventually stop (Murphy's law) and my improvement is going to get stucked. Hope not..

 

Despite the cognitive difficulties, I can feel hopeful. I feel more optimism, more enthusiasm, I can see the world with much more strength. I thank god that everyday I'm getting better. 

 

Thanks to all of us. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel

 

That is great to hear, @Cage190. Hope you continue to improve 🙏

[Cage190]

On 11/25/2021 at 2:08 AM, ChessieCat said:

 

@DavidPT

 

Please do NOT make dose suggestions to members.  It is okay to talk about reinstatement, but it would be better to say that the member should ask the staff about this in their own Introduction topic.

 

  Lesson learned

[kostakonkordia]

May I ask you why you want to stay on 12,5 MG Zoloft indefinitely. I'm just curious as I stumbled across you're introduction... 

Greetings 

Kosta

[Cage190]

6 hours ago, kostakonkordia said:

May I ask you why you want to stay on 12,5 MG Zoloft indefinitely. I'm just curious as I stumbled across you're introduction... 

Greetings 

Kosta

Because at 12.5 mg I'm feeling improvement almost every week, in a very slow way. By the moment, there's no need for more. I have been 5 months at 12.5 mg, 

and the improvement has been constant every month. If after several months, the improvement stops, I'm going to consider the idea of increasing. But, by the moment, I'm going to stay at this dose. 

 

I'm also afraid of possible kindlings, if I increase. 5 months ago, I increased only 3 mg (after being 90 days on 9.5 mg) and I suffered and a awful kindling, with severe cognitive difficulties, suicidal thoughts and lose of reason. Lasted thanks to God, only three days, but it was hard enough to be aware how dangerous is kindling. 

 

The problem here, is the kindling. If that wouldn't be a problem, I probably would be at 25 mg or 37.5 mg. But unfortunately, I cannot jump easily from one dose to another. 

 

Hope this answer helps, 

[Foxclover6]

On 9/3/2021 at 1:18 PM, DataGuy said:

Hi @Cage190,

 

Yes, 4 months is a short period. You are doing great if you are improving every day. It is also normal to have periods where you don't notice improvement or feel worse. Some people go weeks or months without noticing much improvement. It is the general pattern of gradual improvement that matters. 

 

Given the benefits you've experienced, I would not increase the dose. In fact, there is likely no need to ever increase the dose if you are currently stable after 4 months on 12.5mg.  

 

This is just a hypothesis, but likely there are a couple components to PAWS (post-acute withdrawal syndromes). One part would be that the brain needs to adapt back from the receptor changes caused by taking the medication. In the case of sertraline, 5-HT receptors would need to upregulate. 

 

The other component of a withdrawal syndrome likely results from damage or toxicity from overly rapid withdrawal. This can happen with benzodiazepine withdrawal, which can result in seizures and/or death. In rapid withdrawal from antidepressants, some people will experience extreme symptoms like brain zaps, akathisia, even seizures, as well as many other symptoms that are typical of someone who has suffered a brain injury, such as light and sound sensitivity, impaired cognitive function, sleep problems, depression, aggression, anxiety, vision problems, headaches, lack of impulse control etc as seen in the diagram below:

 

 

I think it is reasonable to hypothesize that the rapid withdrawal has caused some damage via a shock to the nervous system, which then gets stuck in a hyperaroused state because it cannot adapt quickly to life without the drug. What the exact cause of the damage is would likely depend on the drug. Damage also may occur from taking the drug, such as if you experience serotonin toxicity (serotonin syndrome), or develop akathisia or a movement disorder. But in your case it was likely the rapid withdrawal. I'm not a neuroscientist, so I can't explain how the injury occurs, but I do know that hyperexcitability of the nervous system is associated with injury and excitotoxicity. So it could be that the nervous system becomes dysfunctional and loses control, and the state of excess excitability results in damage and death of neurons.

 

This could explain why the withdrawal syndrome can last so long in some people (years in some cases, as documented in this study and others like it). You can still recover, it just takes a long time, with only slow improvement expected, since your body can only produce a relatively small number of neurons per day via neurogenesis. There is an academic debate about the possibility and extent of it neurogenesis, which you can read a bit about here, but needless to say, plenty of people have recovered from withdrawals like yours. It's great that you continue to improve. There is no reason you cannot heal the 'damage' part of the injury when you are taking the sertraline. The receptor adaptations will likely only happen once you withdraw from the drug, though. I believe I originally said that "reinstatement will not heal your brain". By that I only meant that reinstatement will not itself make you 100% better. It will only - at best - reduce symptoms and make them more tolerable. I did not mean that you cannot heal or improve after reinstatement. 

 

Did that answer make sense?

Just wanted to say this is so well written.  

[Thelongestroadhome]

On 1/3/2022 at 1:31 AM, Cage190 said:

Because at 12.5 mg I'm feeling improvement almost every week, in a very slow way. By the moment, there's no need for more. I have been 5 months at 12.5 mg, 

and the improvement has been constant every month. If after several months, the improvement stops, I'm going to consider the idea of increasing. But, by the moment, I'm going to stay at this dose. 

 

I'm also afraid of possible kindlings, if I increase. 5 months ago, I increased only 3 mg (after being 90 days on 9.5 mg) and I suffered and a awful kindling, with severe cognitive difficulties, suicidal thoughts and lose of reason. Lasted thanks to God, only three days, but it was hard enough to be aware how dangerous is kindling. 

 

The problem here, is the kindling. If that wouldn't be a problem, I probably would be at 25 mg or 37.5 mg. But unfortunately, I cannot jump easily from one dose to another. 

 

Hope this answer helps, 

I’m so glad that a small reinstatement worked for you. I was on a small dose of lexapro (2mg) for a couple of years during my withdrawal and it was just enough to keep the wolves from the door! 
look forward to hearing about your continued improvements 🙏

[Cage190]

Hi everyone, here's my update.

I'm getting better every month, in a very slow way.

The pattern windows-waves has changed. I still have them in a 50-50 proportion, but I'm having the window and the wave the same day. Usually, I have the wave when I wake up at the morning, and at the evening I experience the window. Sometimes I have an a wave all the day, and other days the opposite. But normally I have both the same day.

I'm still practising mindfulness, and this has been an a major factor at the time of healing me. Everyday, after practising (usually I practice an a 30' session, following a rest, and then I do the another sessions) I can feel how my brain is getting calmer. I also practice yoga, that makes my brain more functional and improves my cognitive performance. If one day I forget MF or I do less than 2 hours, the next day I can feel weakier and impaired in terms of cognitive functionality.

I can feel hopeful, I'm seeing improvements every month. But, being honest, I believe that this is going to take about 4 years to get fine. 2 years was an a too short interval.

I'm going to update my status every 3 months, the day one.

Functionality: it seems that is getting better. I'm still suffering cognitive deficits but seems less and less every month, in a very gradual way. I still suffer language difficulties and difficulties to express myself but it seems that I'm getting better, and I'm recovering stability.

Mental wellness: I'm still suffering from intrusive thoughts, but I can bear them more easily. It seems that I'm recovering the control of my mind. The mental anger is also getting mild every month.

Physical disorders: my akathisia is getting better and better, but I'm still suffering from it. It seems that is the hardest thing to minimize.

Emotional: Since I restarted Zoloft I have recovered part of my self steem. I'm also getting better at the time of feeling hopeful, I feel calmer and happier every month. It seems that the emotional part is what has improved the most.

Two months ago I believed that in two years I was going to return to my studies... but I believe that I said that while experiencing a window. I believe that in 4 years I'm going to be able to return to my studies.

I'm gonna handle at 12.5 mg indefinitely. I have been 6 months at this dose and the result has been satisfactory. But as Alto said, it's never fast enough.

Thanks to everyone,

[CeruleanSea]

@Cage190 ! Buenos días! Espero qu ud sigue mejorándose cada mes con este plan.   (Estoy escribiendo en español porque cree que Ud. vive en España, aunque soy Americana.)
 

Acabo de leer a su historia aquí. Yo también tenia dificultades en pensar e recordar a palabras cuando deje de tomar a sertraline. Para mi eso fue hace casi 3 años y he tomado a 50 desde entonces.

Me alegro de que este mejorando con un poquito de medicina y la meditación.  Estaría siguiendo su cuento en los meses que vienen. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cage190]

On 1/31/2022 at 9:00 PM, CeruleanSea said:

@Cage190 ! Buenos días! Espero qu ud sigue mejorándose cada mes con este plan.   (Estoy escribiendo en español porque cree que Ud. vive en España, aunque soy Americana.)
 

Acabo de leer a su historia aquí. Yo también tenia dificultades en pensar e recordar a palabras cuando deje de tomar a sertraline. Para mi eso fue hace casi 3 años y he tomado a 50 desde entonces.

Me alegro de que este mejorando con un poquito de medicina y la meditación.  Estaría siguiendo su cuento en los meses que vienen. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gracias por tu apoyo. Qué bonito español tienes, felicidades. Puedo preguntarte, ¿desde que reinstalaste, cuánto tiempo tardaste en encontrarte bien? 

[Dee7]

Hi @Cage190 just wanted to say I'm pleased to read your story and hear that you are doing well. I was prescribed two drugs - Mirtazapine and Zoloft - in 2019 and waited a long time like you to heal naturally - two years - but just felt worse. Sam currently trying a micro-dose reinstatement of Mirtazapine @ 3.5 but I often wonder if I could benefit from going higher with that, and sometimes wonder about reinstating Zoloft too (though I have PSSD which is unlikely to be helped by that). 

 

I wondered why you re-instated Zoloft at a higher dose to the usual advised micro-dose reinstatement level? And if you thought the higher level of 12.5mg after all this time is significant / helpful to you?

 

My symptoms have been the same for a long time now: SI, Anhedonia, Emotional Anesthesia. Depression, Depersonalization and I am trying to consider all options to try and survive.

 

Thanks

 

 

[Dee7]

Sorry sent too soon, try again....

 

Hi @Cage190just wanted to say I'm pleased to read your story and hear that you are doing well. I was prescribed two drugs - Mirtazapine and Zoloft - in 2019 and waited a long time like you to heal naturally - two years - but just felt worse. So I am currently trying a micro-dose reinstatement of Mirtazapine @ 3.5 but I often wonder if I could benefit from going higher with that, and sometimes wonder about reinstating Zoloft too (though I have PSSD which is unlikely to be helped by that). 

 

I wondered why you re-instated Zoloft at a higher dose to the usual advised micro-dose reinstatement level? And if you thought the higher level of 12.5mg after all this time is significant / helpful to you rather than a lower dose?

 

My symptoms have been the same for a long time now: SI, Anhedonia, Emotional Anesthesia. Depression, Depersonalization and I am trying to consider all options to try and survive.

 

Thanks a lot

[Dee7]

@Cage190 I forgot to ask, do you feel like your old self as a result of the 12.5 reinstatement?

 

Thanks

[Cage190]

On 2/1/2022 at 2:13 PM, Dee7 said:

Sorry sent too soon, try again....

 

Hi @Cage190 just wanted to say I'm pleased to read your story and hear that you are doing well. I was prescribed two drugs - Mirtazapine and Zoloft - in 2019 and waited a long time like you to heal naturally - two years - but just felt worse. So I am currently trying a micro-dose reinstatement of Mirtazapine @ 3.5 but I often wonder if I could benefit from going higher with that, and sometimes wonder about reinstating Zoloft too (though I have PSSD which is unlikely to be helped by that). 

 

I wondered why you re-instated Zoloft at a higher dose to the usual advised micro-dose reinstatement level? And if you thought the higher level of 12.5mg after all this time is significant / helpful to you rather than a lower dose?

 

My symptoms have been the same for a long time now: SI, Anhedonia, Emotional Anesthesia. Depression, Depersonalization and I am trying to consider all options to try and survive.

 

Thanks a lot

 

I started at 6.25, then increased to 9 mg, and finally 12.5 mg. The reason I increased to this dose was because I didn't know what minimum dose was needed. I wasn't aware of the forum recommendations. So I just followed my instinct. 

 

Definitively, 12.5 has been much more better than 6 or 9 mg. I wonder all the days if I have to increase, but I end up thinking that 12.5 mg is enough. The biggest part of my improvement comes from mindfulness and yoga. The low dose AD is just working as an a catalyst of the improvement. 

 

On 2/1/2022 at 2:25 PM, Dee7 said:

@Cage190 I forgot to ask, do you feel like your old self as a result of the 12.5 reinstatement?

 

Thanks

 

It seems that very slowly, with the pass of the time my brain is getting better, and I'm recovering the old David, yes. But always, in a very slow way and with the help of mindfulness. 

[Dee7]

Thanks a lot @Cage190 do you mind me asking what type of mindfulness or yoga helps? Kundalini?

[Cage190]

On 2/1/2022 at 2:50 PM, Dee7 said:

Thanks a lot @Cage190 do you mind me asking what type of mindfulness or yoga helps? Kundalini?

 

Mindfulness, I practice vipassana. Yoga I don't know the class, I use an a book called Yoga for Depression, from Amy Weintraub. I'm not sure what kind of yoga it is.

[Cage190]

@DataGuy @Altostrata 

 

Dear Alto and Dataguy, 

As I said in the update, the pattern windows waves has changed. Now, I'm suffering waves every morning, from 9 AM to 2 PM, achieving the peak after lunch, and all the afternoon and evening (from 4 PM to bedtime) I'm experiencing the window. 

 

Why this has changed? This can be an a good or bad signal? From all the week, 5 days I experience this pattern, 1 day I experience an all day wave and the other day I experience - all the day also - all day window. 

 

Thanks

[Altostrata]

Good to hear you're doing better. See The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

[DataGuy]

Glad you are doing better, @Cage190. The windows and waves pattern can be very unpredictable. I would not get too worried that it changed. Many people can go a long time (weeks or months) without experiencing much of a window. Some can have prolonged windows lasting weeks and then fall back into a long wave. I think having them at the same time every day is probably a blessing. At least you can predict when you will feel better and when you will feel worse, then you can plan accordingly. If you are feeling agitated in the morning, this may be a good time for exercise. If you're calmer in the evening, it might be a better time to read a book or sit down with friends. Sometimes in wd it is best to just take what our body gives us : )

[JanCarol]

On 2/2/2022 at 8:07 AM, Cage190 said:

Yoga for Depression, from Amy Weintraub

Good stuff, I have both of her DVD's, and it can be somewhat challenging - and I don't always go in for the Sanskrit chants (somehow, even in the privacy of my own home, I feel self conscious about them?)

 

The type of yoga is:  Yoga for Depression (she made her own style, combining postures & transitions from a number of sources)

But - it's definitely a practice in the right direction for settling mood & symptoms!

 

I hope you see the sun today,

 

JanCarol

[Cage190]

Update:

 

On March of this year, I increased to 18.75, remained there 15 days, and there increased to 25 mg. I stayed on 25 mg another two weeks, and finally, I increased to 37.5 mg, and stayed one month. 

 

On May 9th, I increased the dose finally to 50 mg. I have been on this dose, 6 months - 180 days - and I have been improving a lot. I haven't suffered kindling. My theory is, that after a whole year of being on a low dose - at some point - my brain began to tolerate the drug. I don't know how happened, only that really happened. I have been able to increase without any problem until I attain 50 mg. By the moment, Im going to stay on 50 mg indefinitely. 

 

In my opinion, when your brain crashes after a CT, your whole brain collapses, with the 100.000 neurotransmitters involved in a very complex way. That makes, once the CT, very hard to recover by itfself and you need a push. For me, that push, that help has been reinstating, sport, yoga, but above everything, meditation (buddhist). Omega 3 DHA, magnesium citrate, multivit and Vit D really helps too. And I have added pulsatilla 200 ch - an a homeopathic remedy - that also improves my healing immensely. I'm going to add Astaxanthin 4 mg daily, to improve evenmore my healing and protect my brain (astaxanthin promotes neurogenesis and bdnf). 

 

I also practice 2 hours of meditation daily. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Only one hour of meditation, increases BDNF, GABA, serotonin and dopamine noteworthy. Also sustained meditation over long periods of time increases endogenous melatonin, DHEA, and glutathione substantially. All this studies and research can be found on internet. 

 

I'm still suffering from waves, but everytime less and less. Anger outbursts, violent thoughts and all this stuff is getting vanished slowly. What seems to improve the first is the oldest part of your brain, related with reason, reality perception, self-control and movement. Then, improves the psychologic part of your brain (self-steem, intrusive thoughts, happiness) and all this things. 

 

Finally (and what I really desire the most) is the functional part, the newest that was developed by the brain (frontal lobe, frontal cortex). Involved with learning, speaking, and all this things. That's what takes more time, and takes a lot of patience (in my humble and probably incorrect opinion). 

 

Greetings

[Altostrata]

Yes, gradual increase in dosage is not likely to cause kindling. Please let us know when you're ready to taper your drug.

[Cage190]

I'm absolutely convinced that what happens in my brain is a mixture between PTSD and TBI. Both were unleashed by the cold turkey. Here there is an a image that explains it: 

 

 

Except maybe hypervigilance, vision problems, and the digestive symptoms, I've all the symptoms, adding akathisia. I've made changes in my diet, eliminating gluten - from all sources, including oat and rye - and I'm following an alkaline diet. I eat only fruit for the first meal fo the day (hypocaloric and alkaline) like lemons, oranges and pomegranates. I've eliminated all dairy, including cheese, and all milk-derived foods (I've been avoiding milk for two years until now). I'm eating more legumes, everyday a salad with alkaline foods, avoiding all kind of sugar and instead trying stevia. And for the last meal, I'm eating 500 grams of cruciferous, with a vegetable cream and organic seeds. I'm avoiding meat, most kind of fish, eggs, dairy products, all-kind of sugar, pastries and refined grain. And of course, gluten. 

 

I've been following the intermittent fasting routine 16-8 for two weeks. Theoretically, it increases BDNF, balances neurotransmitters, and promotes autophagy. In two months, I'm going to jump to 18-6 routine, three months later, to the 21-3 routine, and finally, the 24 hours routine (or OMAD). Maybe, I'm going to try also the keto diet. 

 

I recently added turmeric to my list of supplements. I'm taking everyday: 

- Multivitamin with all-kind of minerals and vitamins 

- Omega 3 EPA-DHA 

- Magnesium Citrate 225 mg (plus 100 mg from the multivitamin, 325 mg in total). 

- Vitamin D 2000 UI

- Astaxanthin 4 mg 

- Turmeric 

 

In a brief period of time I'm going to add Choline and Inositol. All supplements from Lamberts, that in the opinion of my herbalist, is the better label (at least, here in Europe). I'm trying pulsatilla 200ch, that helps with depressive symptoms.  

 

To be honest, I'm a little bit tired of being at the same point again and again, like the groundhog day. I've been on 50 mg of Sertraline for 8 months until now, feeling an a improvement, but somedays (like today) it's so light and unnoticeable..  The days that I practice more meditation (like 3 hours) the next day I feel better. And this has been the only improvement for a while in terms of cognitive performance, and I feel more peaceful. The antidepressant has helped me with reason, reality perception, and maybe a little bit improvement related with cognition, but anything else. The truth is, that I'm a little bit desperate. 

 

I don't know what else I can try. For a matter of time and other things, I'm not practising sport and yoga. Maybe I should again, they really helped. Turmeric and astaxanthin also helps, and both promotes neurogenesis and helps with anxiety-depression symptoms. Also helps with TBI injuries. Seems that maybe the therapeutic effect is going to last a while to take place.. 

 

Any council here is desired and well-received. 

 

Thanks for reading, 

Not Nicolas Cage

[Cage190]

*All supplements from Lamberts, that in the opinion of my herbalist, is the better brand (at least, here in Europe). 

 

Sorry for the mistake

[Cage190]

Double correction: 

 

About the post of November 9, I was probably experiencing an a window. And at last post, I was experiencing an a wave. That's why I seem so contradictory. I've improved substantially, notably with everything related with reason, psychological aspect and reality perception, and in a mild-moderate way about functional cognitive terms. It's so weird all this... 

 

I must say that the pattern windows-waves has changed. Now I'm having the window usually at the morning (I don't know why, maybe are the natural pills) and while the evening I'm suffering waves. I don't know why. For example, this morning I feel good. But yesterday, I was suffering from an a strong wave all the evening, feeling nervous and annoyed, and before going to bed I had moderate suicidal thoughts - feeling so hopelessness - that eventually changed. This has been the only time in about 2 months (about suffering suicidal thoughts). I thank God that the suicidal thoughts subsided. 

 

Time, time and time... meditation, patience, meditation, patience... 

[Altostrata]

Good to hear you've completely reversed your cold turkey, gone back to your original dosage, and are feeling a lot better.

 

Your theory that your ill-advised cold turkey -- an action well known to cause severe withdrawal syndrome -- resulted in a combination of PTSD and TBI is very creative. You'll probably be able to find a psychiatrist who will endorse it.

 

Right now, it does not appear you have an interest in tapering your drug. No need to post here to tell us of your ongoing drug treatment. Please let us know when you want to taper a psychiatric drug.

[Cage190]

Dear @Altostrata, 

 

Thanks for your quick response and approval. I'm not going to post anything until tapering, as your wish. 

 

Cordial greetings

[Cage190]

Dear @Altostrata and @DataGuy, 

 

Finally, after being on this dose for 10 months, without seeing a noteworthy improvement, I'm going to wear off slowly the drug. I'm going to reduce it an a 5% every 15 days. Right now, I've lowered the dose from 50 mg to 47.5 mg, and in 15 days, another 5%. And following this way, I'm going to reduce it until I attach 25 mg or 12.5 (or 17.5 mg, I don't know). 

 

I felt an a strong stabilization and improvement on 12.5 mg, and when I increased to 50 mg, the improvement has been really minimal. The strong and most important improvement was when I stayed at 12.5, so I'm going to reduce it to that dose. 

 

As you said @DataGuy, the reinstantment has helped me with making feel more stable and control some symptoms. But hasn't healed me. Seems that I still suffer from most of the symptoms of TBI. By now, I control most of the symptoms with meditation, yoga, sport, diet, IF (Intermittent Fasting), naturopathic substances (Omega 3, Magnesium, Vit. D, Astaxanthin, Turmeric, Multivit... ) and homeopathy. Time, patience, time, patience... 

 

I'm afraid that staying too much on 50 mg can cause brain damage and biochemical imbalances in my brain. So, there's no need to get worry, especially if at this dose I haven't felt an a major improvement. My plan is to slowly, really slowly reduce until I arrive to 25 mg or 12.5 mg. Or maybe, 17.5 mg. Probably I'm going to get back to 12.5 mg. I shouldn't have increased that dose. My plan is to get back to that dose throughout an a whole year. 

 

My plan so is to get back to 25/12.5 and stay indefinitely, while I still practice all the things I mentioned above. 

 

Thanks for your council, patience and wisdom, 

 

Not Nicolas Cage

[Cage190]

* And following this way, I'm going to reduce it until I attain 25 mg or 12.5 (or 17.5 mg, I don't know). 

[Altostrata]

On 3/15/2023 at 4:43 AM, Cage190 said:

Finally, after being on this dose for 10 months, without seeing a noteworthy improvement, I'm going to wear off slowly the drug. I'm going to reduce it an a 5% every 15 days. Right now, I've lowered the dose from 50 mg to 47.5 mg, and in 15 days, another 5%. And following this way, I'm going to reduce it until I attach 25 mg or 12.5 (or 17.5 mg, I don't know). 

 

To make this a properly gradual taper, you will need to make your calculations based on the last monthly dosage, where monthly reductions keep getting smaller. Your method should be similar to that described in Why taper by 10% of my dosage? except instead of one 10% reduction per month, you're making 2 5% reductions.

 

On 3/15/2023 at 4:43 AM, Cage190 said:

Seems that I still suffer from most of the symptoms of TBI.

 

What symptoms are these?

 

What was the event that caused your TBI?

[Cage190]

On 3/17/2023 at 12:01 AM, Altostrata said:

 

To make this a properly gradual taper, you will need to make your calculations based on the last monthly dosage, where monthly reductions keep getting smaller. Your method should be similar to that described in Why taper by 10% of my dosage? except instead of one 10% reduction per month, you're making 2 5% reductions.

 

 

What symptoms are these?

 

What was the event that caused your TBI?

 

Dear @Altostrata, 

 

yes, I was planning to do it in that way. 

 

The symptoms are akathisia, being unable to concentrate, having memory problems, difficulties to read or talk, horrible memory, headaches, also an a emotional pain - sometimes like "agony" - and sometimes I feel lobotomized, but every day, week and year that elapses I feel better. And maybe one day per week I have anger outbursts, but much more less than maybe a year ago. 

 

Theoretically, as @DataGuy said on a earlier post, my coldturkey caused TBI-like symptoms. 

 

I'm going to slowly get off the drug until I at least attain 25 mg or 12.5 mg. I wasn't feeling comfortable on 50 mg, for me was too much. I've also enlarged my list of supplements, they're really helping a lot. My actual list is the following: 

 

- Multivitamin

- Multimineral

- Vitamin D 4000 UI

- Magnesium 400 mg

- Omega 3 EPA + DHA (600 mg + 400 mg)

- Vegan Algae Omega 3 DHA 250 mg 

- Vitamin C 600 mg PR (Prolonged Release)

- Curcumin

- Astaxanthin 8 mg

- Green tea extract 

- Lion's mane 500 mg (I'm planning to augment  it to 1000 mg)

 

Theoretically all this things are helping me. I feel really better thanks to them. I also take all this to protect my brain from the brain damage caused by the antidepressant drug, even if we are talking about an a 12.5 mg dose. I really believe this pills cause brain damage, as this study denounces. 

 

Being on 50 mg for almost a year has helped me, but what is really helping me are all the natural tools I've added. I also take Omega 3, Vitamin C, Astaxanthin, Curcumin and Lion's mane to protect my brain from the brain damage caused by the antidepressant. Hope I get better with more time.  

 

I want to make clear that I'm going to reduce to 25 mg or to 12.5 mg and I'm going to stay on it indefinitely, until I believe I'm cured. The reinstantment has helped me a lot, but the jump from 12.5 mg to 50 mg hasn't been really clear be helpful. Sincerely, I haven't felt any great improvement with this "high" dose. So, I'm going to lower it. @DataGuy was right, the reinstantment was going to help to bear with some symptoms, but hasn't healed me. 

 

Thanks @Altostrata,  we keep in touch. 

 

[Altostrata]

10 hours ago, Cage190 said:

The symptoms are akathisia, being unable to concentrate, having memory problems, difficulties to read or talk, horrible memory, headaches, also an a emotional pain - sometimes like "agony" - and sometimes I feel lobotomized, but every day, week and year that elapses I feel better. And maybe one day per week I have anger outbursts, but much more less than maybe a year ago. 

 

That is a description of typical protracted withdrawal syndrome. I would hesitate to call it a TBI, that means physical brain damage.

[DataGuy]

@Cage190 sounds like a good plan. Just make sure any changes to dose are gradual, so as not to produce a shock to your system. Alto is right, it is tough to call it a brain injury, but there is some emerging evidence of neurotoxicity with these drugs. And the symptom overlap with TBI is pretty remarkable. This study notes that claims that neurogenesis are flawed, because the test used to detect neurogenesis does not distinguish whether there is a net increase in neurons or whether the neurogenesis arises as a result of injury. 

 

As for the supplements, I typically don't recommend taking any. It can be tough to tell if these are causing more harm than good and there have been quite a few studies suggesting they are at best unnecessary. You can probably cut a few out of your regimen and save some money without suffering any ill effects. Hope you are able to continue to stabilize and feel better : )

 

DG