Shellbell: Struggling really bad

[Shellbell]

@Altostrata

 

I honestly don't know if my dr will prescribe or not. the only reason I had the diazepam was left over from my surgery 3 months ago. I was adamant about not taking anything anymore. But it's been so rough I was desperate.

So I will check to see if I can get. a script for a low dose. Benzo's are hard to get and even harder for Dr's to understand withdrawals

 

Thank you for all your help. you are an amazing person

[Frogie]

Hi,

 

Would your dr consider giving you 0.5mg or do you only have access to 5 mg?

 

If you can only get the 5 mg, the easiest way to do this would be to weigh 10 of the tablets to get an average weight. Then divide the average weight into 10 to get the weight on 0.5mg as you can’t cut a small tablet into 10 equal pieces. Then you would crush the piece and put it in a gel cap. Or you could make your own solution.

 

 I hope I explained it so you understand it. It can be confusing.

 

Let me know if you have any questions or I can help you in anyway.

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

[Shellbell]

@Frogie

 

thank you for replying to me. I don’t know if my dr will give me any at all. I have apt on the 10th. So I’ll ask. 
in the meantime I will attempt to weigh and go from there. It sounds very confusing. 
I have 9 pills left since I took one whole one already. So I am not sure I’m understanding how to do this. I don’t have a scale. 

it’s been 7 months since I’ve been off the Klonopin. So I’m worried about taking anything. But I’m desperate for relief right now

[Frogie]

Hopefully the dr will give you more. If you talk with them about you needing them to taper off safely maybe they will?

 

If not, we will figure something out with the 5 mg ones you have left. Just don’t take another5 mg one. As Alto said, it will last quite a while in your system. Valium lasts up to 200 hours so you should be ok for while.

 

You could dissolve one in milk. And then take a syringe and draw up 0.5 ml/mg and take it that way. You would dissolve it in 5 ml/mg of milk so you have a 1 to 1 ratio since your Valium is 5 mg. It will last several days in the fridge. Just shake it well before you draw it up in a syringe.

 

 

 

 

[SeekingAnswers]

5 hours ago, Frogie said:

If you can only get the 5 mg, the easiest way to do this would be to weigh 10 of the tablets to get an average weight. Then divide the average weight into 10 to get the weight on 0.5mg as you can’t cut a small tablet into 10 equal pieces. Then you would crush the piece and put it in a gel cap. Or you could make your own solution.

Hello @Frogie could you explain how to do create a 0.5mg dose from a

10mg tablet of Celexa with this method?I am not good at math things like this and would not want to make a mistake. I am not going to do this right away I just want to have the info on file for future use if needed. Thank you so much

[brassmonkey]

@Frogie, @SeekingAnswers there is a typo in both of your posts that will cause problems with trying to calculate an accurate dose. You seem to be referring to 5mg and 0.5mg as the same thing. 5mg is 10X more that 0.5mg. The equivalent would be 5mg or 0.005g. It's a common mistake but can cause big problems.

 

Celexa does not dissolve well in milk, it is much better to use water, vodka or a combination of the two.

 

To make a liquid from a 10mg Celexa tablet you would dissolve it in 10mL of one of the above mentioned liquids. This gives you a 1:1 dilution ration where 1mL of liquid contains 1mg of active ingredient. Depending on the meaning of you post above and my correction to get a dose of 5mg you would measure 5mL of liquid. To get a dose of 0.5mg you would measure a dose of 0.5mL.

 

When it comes time for you to try this please ask about it and one of the mods will be happy to talk you through the details.

[SeekingAnswers]

11 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

o make a liquid from a 10mg Celexa tablet you would dissolve it in 10mL of one of the above mentioned liquids. This gives you a 1:1 dilution ration where 1mL of liquid contains 1mg of active ingredient. Depending on the meaning of you post above and my correction to get a dose of 5mg you would measure 5mL of liquid. To get a dose of 0.5mg you would measure a dose of 0.5mL.

 

11 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

To make a liquid from a 10mg Celexa tablet you would dissolve it in 10mL of one of the above mentioned liquids. This gives you a 1:1 dilution ration where 1mL of liquid contains 1mg of active ingredient. Depending on the meaning of you post above and my correction to get a dose of 5mg you would measure 5mL of liquid. To get a dose of 0.5mg you would measure a dose of 0.5mL.

Thank you @Frogie and @brassmonkey , much appreciated! I meant to ask how to get to 0.5mg so thank you for explaining. 

[Frogie]

2 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

@Frogie, @SeekingAnswers there is a typo in both of your posts that will cause problems with trying to calculate an accurate dose. You seem to be referring to 5mg and 0.5mg as the same thing. 5mg is 10X more that 0.5mg. The equivalent would be 5mg or 0.005g. It's a common mistake but can cause big problems.

 

Celexa does not dissolve well in milk, it is much better to use water, vodka or a combination of the two.

 

To make a liquid from a 10mg Celexa tablet you would dissolve it in 10mL of one of the above mentioned liquids. This gives you a 1:1 dilution ration where 1mL of liquid contains 1mg of active ingredient. Depending on the meaning of you post above and my correction to get a dose of 5mg you would measure 5mL of liquid. To get a dose of 0.5mg you would measure a dose of 0.5mL.

 

When it comes time for you to try this please ask about it and one of the mods will be happy to talk you through the details.

@brassmonkey

 

I thought we were talking about 5 mg Valium, not Celexa? If you divide a 5 mg Valium into 10 pieces you get 0.5 mg, isn’t that correct? I was referring to @Shellbell

 

Valium dissolves in milk, but she would indeed need 5 ml milk to dissolve a 5 mg Valium?

 

Thanks😊

Edited September 1, 2021 by Frogie

[Frogie]

2 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

@Frogie, @SeekingAnswers there is a typo in both of your posts that will cause problems with trying to calculate an accurate dose. You seem to be referring to 5mg and 0.5mg as the same thing. 5mg is 10X more that 0.5mg. The equivalent would be 5mg or 0.005g. It's a common mistake but can cause big problems.

 

Celexa does not dissolve well in milk, it is much better to use water, vodka or a combination of the two.

 

To make a liquid from a 10mg Celexa tablet you would dissolve it in 10mL of one of the above mentioned liquids. This gives you a 1:1 dilution ration where 1mL of liquid contains 1mg of active ingredient. Depending on the meaning of you post above and my correction to get a dose of 5mg you would measure 5mL of liquid. To get a dose of 0.5mg you would measure a dose of 0.5mL.

 

When it comes time for you to try this please ask about it and one of the mods will be happy to talk you through the details.

@SeekingAnswers

 

Brassmonkey explained this very well for the Celexa😊

[SeekingAnswers]

Thank you so much, @Frogie!

[Shellbell]

@Frogie

 

I am just worried about reinstating after 7 months of being off the Klonopin. I just am so scared to take anything right now. I am worried about taking the 5mg of Valium two days ago. Sorry just been having such a hard time with life these days. It's unbearable. Everything sends me into panic mode lately

[Frogie]

@Shellbell

 

So you haven’t taken the Valium consistently? How often have you taken it? If it was that only one then you shouldn’t have a problem if you don’t take anymore.

[Altostrata]

@SeekingAnswers please post your questions in your own Introductions topic, we need to focus on Shellbell here.

[Shellbell]

@Frogie

 

yes the 5mg of valium was the only one I took.

Alto was suggesting to reinstate a small dose to see if it would help my horrific symptoms. And I am so grateful for her advice. I am just scared that the reinstatement after 7 months might make things worse.

I am so paranoid about everything these days. However being as that some days are so horrific and no sleep for weeks at a time, I am just wanting to try anything right now.

 

I am not familiar at all with benzo's. Thought I was taking a small amount for a short time for insomnia related to mirtazapine withdrawals. So I didn't think that the benzo had anything to do with how I am feeling with the constant panic and insomnia. But when Alto brought it up it does make a lot of sense.

 

I am just torn between waiting it out a little longer or doing the reinstatement with a low dose. Sorry for rambling on. I am grateful to both you, Alto and everyone else on this sight I know it's my decision. Just feeling so desperate

 

[Frogie]

Alto knows what she’s talking about. She’s very knowledgeable about this. 
 

If you think it might help you could try to reinstate a very small amount, as she suggested. Stabilize for a few months and then taper off very slowly. Your CNS is probably very sensitized.

 

That’s a decision you must make unfortunately. And you don’t want to take it if your dr will not give you a prescription for it so you can do it properly. 

 

Have you tried some magnesium? You could try a very small amount and see if that helps.  Or an epson salt bath before bed? You might try a small amount of melatonin, 0.3 mg is the suggested dose. Turn your computer off an hour or two before bed and the tv. Try meditation? A sleep mask and ear plugs, make sure your room is dark. I’m just trying to throw out suggestions to you if you don’t want to reinstate.

 

 I’m sorry you’re going through this. I know what it’s like not to sleep. I’ve gone a long time without a full night, but I tapered way too fast and now I’m paying for it.

 

Think about what you might want to do and let me know. I’ll be glad to help you.

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

[Shellbell]

@Frogie

 

i truly appreciate you and Alto both. I will give it some thought for sure and reach out for help

 

i take magnesium and melatonin both already. But for some reason the past couple weeks it stopped working for me. I think my symptoms just change weekly. 
 

anyway. Thanks again for all your time and help. 

[Frogie]

You’re very welcome.

If you decide you want to try the Valium to relieve the symptoms let me know I’ll be glad to help you.

[Altostrata]

17 hours ago, Frogie said:

And you don’t want to take it if your dr will not give you a prescription for it so you can do it properly. 

 

This is true, but if Shellbell can make 45 0.5mg doses of her 9 5mg diazepam tablets, those 45 days might at least allow her nervous system to adapt some more, and stopping the 0.5mg won't be as much of a shock.

 

It would be better if she could continue on a prescription until she fully stabilizes -- if a benzo reinstatement does, in fact, work.

 

@Shellbell, what effect did you feel from the 5mg diazepam on Monday night? How has your symptom pattern changed since Monday?

[Shellbell]

@Altostrata

 

HI Alto this week has been pretty decent, insomnia is still a severe issue. Previously I was feeling very suicidal. However taking the 5mg diazepam seemed to help with the severe panic I have been feeling. I am scared to reinstate after 7 months of being completely off though. So I am debating

I am wondering if this would be ok to take just take in extreme emergencies only? 

what are your thoughts about reinstatement so far of being off?

I not sure why the episodes are hitting me so hard. Maybe a mixture of coming off the mirtazapine and then 2 months later the Klonopin?

 

[Altostrata]

On 8/30/2021 at 3:20 PM, Altostrata said:

According to your signature, you took a benzo from November 20 to February 3. That would be more than 8 weeks. When you went off, you probably were already physiologically dependent on it. It's very possible some of your symptoms are benzo withdrawal symptoms.

 

If I were you, I would reinstate a very small amount of Klonopin twice a day. You were taking 0.25mg per day, or more than once a day?

 

 

You may be experiencing benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome.

[Shellbell]

@Altostrata

@Frogie

is kindling a risk with the reinstatement of a very low dose?

im having another really bad wave today after 3 decent days. I’m worried that taking the diazepam set me back worse?

[Elyssa143]

@Shellbell I am so very sorry your suffering! I’m not healed yet but I am improving! I can relate to everything your saying 100% and it’s been 42 months for me! Don’t let that scare you I see so many heal well before me. You never know how strong you are until that’s your only decision. I know how horrifically painful this is, I never had a normal thought until 22 months. This year has been my best year yet but I still struggle same symptoms just not as horribly intense and I have times of more normalcy. Times where I can focus on regular life I’ve come along way. Your not alone I promise! I also promise it gets better. I still need reassurance and I still get scared this is my life but it’s not like it was the first 3 years, so I can only hope next year will be better. Suicide is such a hard subject I have and have had intense urges, si and constant suicidal ideations. I sat in the sun for hours upon hours and in the bath in hot water, whatever I could do to stay alive. Staying alive is the name of the game. From everywhere I’ve read it’s not permanent. Baylissa has been doing this for 15 years and seen so many people. If I was the same as I was before I’d truly believe it was permanent but it’s not better slowly ever so slowly it’s frustrating I still have the same symptoms but it’s better. Hang in there ok? And I truly believe kindling is what has made this so awful for me. More fuel on the fire. This isn’t my first protracted Withdrawl so there is no med option for me. 

[Frogie]

@Shellbell

 

Shep put this information on another members thread that explains kindling:

 

Benzo Info.com - Kindling

 

Diazepam has a long half life of 200 hours or so. 

[Shellbell]

@Frogie

 

thank you for sharing that. I read up on it. Just still debating about reinstating or just trying to tough it out

i appreciate all your kindness 

 

@Elyssa143

 

thank you for reaching out. I’m happy that you are doing much better. I pray that is myself here pretty soon. Struggling a lot at the moment 

[Altostrata]

We would not suggest reinstatement of a very low dose of diazepam if we thought there was a high risk of kindling.

 

You did not experience kindling when you took that 5mg tablet. Please do not worry about kindling.

[Shellbell]

@Altostrata

thanks my mind just can't stop ruminating about all the crazy stuff. 

I think I will try the reinstatement and just give it a chance

 

@Frogie

Can you please help me figure out how to do it? 

I know you said dissolve in milk. Do I crush it up and I guess I need a small dropper?

[Frogie]

@Shellbell

 

You’ll want to get a 1 ml syringe. You can ask the pharmacy if they have one, that’s where I got mine. Or a veterinarian office sometimes will give you one. Otherwise you’ll want to order one on Amazon.

 

then dissolve your 5 mg diazepam in 5 ml of milk. You can break it up and let it dissolve. Make sure you put it in a container with a tight lid. Shake it before you draw up 0.5 ml. It will keep for several days in the fridge.

 

Will your dr give you a prescription?

Edited September 4, 2021 by Frogie

[Shellbell]

@Frogie

 

i don’t know if she will or not. I have an appointment next Friday to talk about everything that’s going on

maybe I should wait until then b4 starting?

 

Also the container to store it in? does it need to be glass? I don't really have anything that small except plastic Tupperware

[Frogie]

@Shellbell

 

You can use a plastic container as long as it seals so you can shake it.

 

That is the choice you need to make about waiting as you don’t have a lot until you go see the dr.

[Shellbell]

@Frogie

so I ended up reinstating. However I’m pretty sure I got a little more than .5. More like .6 or so. It’s very hard to measure. Wish me luck I guess. Extremely anxious about it. And pray it doesn’t make things worse 

 

thanks to you and @Altostratafor your help

[Frogie]

Keep me posted on how you feel and hopefully the dr will write a prescription for you to taper properly. I would ask for a much smaller mg diazepam if you can.

[Mia1]

Good luck @ShellbellI really hope this works for you.

[Shellbell]

@Mia1

 

thank you. I do as well. I’ve suffered for so long. Feel discouraged and disappointed that I couldn’t remain med free

but I would rather try meds than be dead. So I will try it and see if it works 

[Shellbell]

@Frogie

what is the timeline as far as starting to taper down. Do I stabilize for a month then start? Or go by symptoms?

just not sure what to do next. 
I will ask my dr for the lowest dose possible. Maybe even a liquid form if available 

[Altostrata]

Most likely, it will take months for your system to settle down. Please do not be in a hurry.

[Frogie]

@Shellbell

 

It would be great if you could do a liquid. It would make it so much easier.

As far as stability, it could take months just as Altostrata said. You have to allow you’re body be the guide, not a schedule.