Kat66: should I reinstate or plough on drug free?

[getofflex]

Kat66 you have come a long way since you came in here almost a year ago.  I've seen a lot of progress in your recovery, as well as in your coping ability to deal with withdrawal!  I know you will make it!  I'm sorry this wave is happening.  Many of us are on edge about the situation in Ukraine.  Keep up the great work! 

[Greatful]

@Kat66  How is it going Kat......

[Kat66]

On 3/15/2022 at 4:16 PM, getofflex said:

Kat66 you have come a long way since you came in here almost a year ago.  I've seen a lot of progress in your recovery, as well as in your coping ability to deal with withdrawal!  I know you will make it!  I'm sorry this wave is happening.  Many of us are on edge about the situation in Ukraine.  Keep up the great work! 

 

Thanks @getofflex that means a lot. I do feel more knowledgeable about the whole WD experience and what to expect. Re Ukraine, I suppose something as momentously awful as the current situation is bound to negatively affect those of us who are psychologically vulnerable. I do try and keep news consumption to a minimum now. When it first started I watched the news solidly for the first 24 hours and that kicked off this current wave, I'm convinced of it. Sorry for the delayed reply btw I've been up in Scotland trying to stay away from all things digital. Hoping you're doing ok.

 

52 minutes ago, Greatful said:

@Kat66  How is it going Kat......

 

Hi! So I'm not feeling too bad - I'm in a weird place, not remotely back to myself but functioning reasonably well, if that makes sense? I'm sorry to hear about your bout of depression - how are you doing now? Again, sorry for the delay in responding, I've been up in Scotland trying to do some kind of digital detox. 

 

I'm 8 sessions into psychotherapy which also I think makes you feel quite 'exposed' emotionally, as you're dealing with all your 'demons'. Still, one foot in front of the other....gotta keep going.

[Kat66]

I really was hoping I wouldn’t be back here but I’m back in an evil nasty insidious wave. I thought waves would become gentler as time went on. Yet here I am, unable to peel myself off the sofa despite it being sunny and warm out, unable to motivate myself to do the ‘easiest’ of tasks, unable to motivate myself to make conversation, unable to be around anyone, unable to be anything other than angry, unable to focus on anything, unable to smile, unable to laugh. I can’t believe I’m back here. 😱😭

[Kat66]

Worsening symptoms the lower the dose?

 

Hi guys, has anyone else felt worse the lower the tapering dose they go? I thought things have been bad over the last year/18months, but this last wave has been worse than any of them. I am down to 1.5mg citalopram and have been tapering by 10% and am now tapering by .1mg. I've a horrible feeling this is a thing and it'll only get worse.

Any thoughts/experiences to back this up?

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[Ariel]

@Kat66

Yes, absolutely. Generally the lower the slower. Cuts at lower doses are often felt more strongly due to receptor occupancy being disproportionately greater at low doses than at high doses. (I think that's how the reasoning goes, but don't hold me to it.) So we feel the difference more acutely. There's a tapering graph that illustrates this, I'll try to find it for you. 

Bottom line: you are definitely not alone in your experience! Things can get tricky at the low doses for sure. 

Another thing that can play a role is that the effects of numerous small drops over time can catch up with you. Sometimes it can be helpful to do longer holds between cuts to mitigate that. 

 

Check out this excellent help topic, Managing the Endgame Taper

 

[Ariel]

Scrountz gives a fairly simple explanation of SERT occupancy:

 

   On 4/29/2022 at 5:41 AM,  Scrountz said: 

Even low doses of SSRIs can have a pretty potent effect on the nervous system. A lot of doctors don't appreciate that the minimal dose of an antidepressant medication is still really strong. This link here illustrates this. If you don't have a science background it can be a bit hard to understand, but basically even the lowest dose of an antidepressant still fills about 80% of the receptor sites that its supposed to. Increasing the dose of medication does not increase its effectiveness proportionately.

[Ariel]

This help topic contains the relevant info, including graph and links to further reading:

 

 

[Ariel]

On 3/28/2014 at 5:20 AM, dcrmt said:

 

Now a couple of interesting things:

-at minimum therapeutic doses in every case, there was about 80% SERT occupancy. That shocked me personally. Even the minimum doses are locking down 80% of your brains reuptake ‘capacity’. Higher doses do more but it’s obviously not linear – they actually have plotted curves, and they’re quite a good fit statistically, particularly for the blood concentrations. Really good in fact. 

Point here though is that there’s a long way between 0% at no drug and 80% at the minimum dose.

 

-the curves man, look at the curves. This gives a fairly good indication of why some people find tapering necessary. You NEED a percentage taper just to get a linear decrease in SERT occupancy. Linear decreases in dose will actually hit you with exponentially increasing drops in SERT occupancy, particularly drops between the minimum therapeutic dose and 0

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

13 hours ago, Kat66 said:

has anyone else felt worse the lower the tapering dose they go?

 

Q:  Have you been drinking alcohol, consuming a lot of caffeine beverages, taking antibiotics, overdoing the exercise, had trouble coping with the Covid situation etc, had any stressful events happen (eg relationship or financial issues, change of job, moving house, death of a friend or relative?)

 

Any of the above can cause a worsening of symptoms.

 

Many members have found that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go, reducing less and/or holding longer.

 

Ariel has already given you the link to the SERT occupancy topic.  I have added a link in Post #1 of that topic for a video clip which explains why this happens.  I will give it again:

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

[Kat66]

On 6/1/2022 at 8:30 AM, ChessieCat said:

 

Q:  Have you been drinking alcohol, consuming a lot of caffeine beverages, taking antibiotics, overdoing the exercise, had trouble coping with the Covid situation etc, had any stressful events happen (eg relationship or financial issues, change of job, moving house, death of a friend or relative?)

 

Any of the above can cause a worsening of symptoms.

 

Many members have found that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go, reducing less and/or holding longer.

 

Ariel has already given you the link to the SERT occupancy topic.  I have added a link in Post #1 of that topic for a video clip which explains why this happens.  I will give it again:

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

Thanks @ChessieCat I’ve had the odd drink but no caffeine or antibiotics. I’m dealing with a past trauma and have been diagnosed with PTSD, so there’s that too. 
 

Guess I’ll just have to be super careful at this point in my taper. I’ll stay off the alcohol. I was going to have some EMDR therapy, do you think that’s a bad idea?

[Kat66]

On 5/31/2022 at 7:44 PM, Ariel said:

@Kat66

Yes, absolutely. Generally the lower the slower. Cuts at lower doses are often felt more strongly due to receptor occupancy being disproportionately greater at low doses than at high doses. (I think that's how the reasoning goes, but don't hold me to it.) So we feel the difference more acutely. There's a tapering graph that illustrates this, I'll try to find it for you. 

Bottom line: you are definitely not alone in your experience! Things can get tricky at the low doses for sure. 

Another thing that can play a role is that the effects of numerous small drops over time can catch up with you. Sometimes it can be helpful to do longer holds between cuts to mitigate that. 

 

Check out this excellent help topic, Managing the Endgame Taper

 

Thank you so much for everything you’ve sent @Ariel it is greatly appreciated even though a lot of it goes right over my head 😉 I’ve started going down by .1 but I should go back to doing 10% of previous dose then? My symptoms are unbearable!

[ChessieCat]

Please see this post:

 

before-you-begin-tapering-what-you-need-to-know

 

And this topic:

 

emdr-has-anyone-tried-this-eye-movement-desensitization-reprocessing-therapy

[Ariel]

Hi @Kat66

 

2 minutes ago, Kat66 said:

it is greatly appreciated even though a lot of it goes right over my head

 

Yeah, it's kinda perfect how right when our brains are scrambled/scrambling more than ever before, this is the time we find ourselves trying to learn/understand the neuroscience. Haha!

 

5 minutes ago, Kat66 said:

I’ve started going down by .1 but I should go back to doing 10% of previous dose then? My symptoms are unbearable!

I'm sorry your symptoms feel unbearable. 

 

I can't personally weigh in on your current taper but will ask one of the more experienced mods to get back to you. 

 

Hang in there, Kat! 

And good on you for experimenting with cold water therapy. Just keep doing what you can and you will get there. 

[Kat66]

59 minutes ago, Ariel said:

Hi @Kat66

 

 

Yeah, it's kinda perfect how right when our brains are scrambled/scrambling more than ever before, this is the time we find ourselves trying to learn/understand the neuroscience. Haha!

 

I'm sorry your symptoms feel unbearable. 

 

I can't personally weigh in on your current taper but will ask one of the more experienced mods to get back to you. 

 

Hang in there, Kat! 

And good on you for experimenting with cold water therapy. Just keep doing what you can and you will get there. 

Yeah, I have trouble understanding soap plot lines at the moment so neuroscience? No way! 😜

 

Thanks @Ariel for asking the other mods about my taper, that would be great. 
 

xx

[Ariel]

2 minutes ago, Kat66 said:

Yeah, I have trouble understanding soap plot lines at the moment

Nobody understands soap plot lines -- not even the neuroscientists!

(That's why every single episode is the same)

[Kat66]

17 minutes ago, Ariel said:

Nobody understands soap plot lines -- not even the neuroscientists!

(That's why every single episode is the same)

🤣

On a serious note though, soaps help to distract my overactive brain and help me escape from WD hell for 20 mins!

[Ariel]

1 hour ago, Kat66 said:

On a serious note though, soaps help to distract my overactive brain and help me escape from WD hell for 20 mins!

I hear you, Kat. Whatever works! 

I'm a big fan of distracting, too. 

 

Incidentally, that's one of the ways cold water is said to help remedy unpleasant physical sensations. The cold kinda distracts your nerves, on a physical level, from whatever other discomfort there is. Cold water also does lots of other good stuff, but it's funny how it's a kind of "change the channel" message we can give our bodies. 

 

More on that in this excellent essay, What is happening in your brain?

 

I recommend reading the whole thing (a little at a time, as necessary), but here's an excerpt from the bit about confusing the nerves:

 

NERVE REGENERATION CAN CAUSE UNPLEASANT SENSATIONS. As counterintuitive as it is,  HEALING CAN FEEL LIKE HURT. 
But it's NOT further hurt or damage. It's the REVERSAL of damage. 

Um  - yeah - okay. Great - but what do I DO about it.

[...] much the things that I have discovered that help through this healing are to "CONFUSE" the nerves as much as possible, IF possible. 
What? Confuse the nerves?

You know how you get a cut or an insect bite and you immediately press on it to make it feel less painful? What you are doing when you press or squeeze the area is "desensitizing' the entire skin region of the cut by applying pressure to ALL the nerves in the area. That way, the ONE sensation of pain from the cut isn't the only thing your brain is feeling.  The pressure from pushing down on  ALL the nerves in the area helps to send multiple sensation to the brain to "counteract" the pain sensation.  And it works.
Similarly, other things can help "confuse" nerves:
-Heat
-Cold
-[...] Pressure
- Massage
-creams like "Icy Hot" with menthol

All of these things have helped me cope in recovery.

 

. . . . 

 

The broad idea here is that
1) Healing is happening.
2) The sensations that feel like injury are NOT injury. They are the CORRECTION of nerve injury.  They just "fire off" as they heal.
3) We can use some things to cope.
4) It's going away in time.

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Ariel

[getofflex]

2 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I’ve had the odd drink

Bingo.  We've discussed this before.  You may enjoy the drink at the time, but then pay the price later.  Is it worth it? 

 

2 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I was going to have some EMDR therapy, do you think that’s a bad idea?

We don't recommend doing any type of trauma therapy during withdrawal.  If it were me, I would wait until I was done with tapering before doing EMDR or other trauma therapy, especially since you are having WD symptoms.  Chessie Cat posted a link recently that explains this.  

 

2 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I’ve started going down by .1 but I should go back to doing 10% of previous dose then?

Instead of going back up to the previous dose, you could try doing a partial updose, to 1.55 mg. Since you made this reduction several weeks ago, your brain has probably already partially adjusted to the lower dose. 

 

 

[Shep]

On 11/8/2021 at 9:03 AM, Kat66 said:

Thanks @getofflex that helped a lot. I think it’s really starting to sink in that booze isn’t helping. I know that must sound dumb but when you’ve used it to mask pain for as long as I have it takes a while to really ‘get it’. On Saturday night my anxiety was dialled up to 11 so I had a couple of bottles of cider. The effects were instant but short lived and for once I thought to myself, ‘this isn’t the answer is it?’ Being honest with myself about this is so hard, but necessary. 

 

 

@Kat66 You posted this 7 months ago. But drinking is continuing to be a problem, as you just posted: 

 

3 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I’ve had the odd drink but no caffeine or antibiotics. I’m dealing with a past trauma and have been diagnosed with PTSD, so there’s that too. 
 

 

When you're in a stressful, anxious state, it's important to find a non-drug (and non-alcohol) solution for self-soothing. 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Learning this skill is extremely important:

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Learning to "change the channel" can keep you from going into spirals:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

On 3/22/2022 at 3:04 PM, Kat66 said:

I'm 8 sessions into psychotherapy which also I think makes you feel quite 'exposed' emotionally, as you're dealing with all your 'demons'. Still, one foot in front of the other....gotta keep going.

 

You posted this in March. Are you still going to this type of psychotherapy? 

 

As @getofflex wisely noted, now is not the time for trauma work. 

 

Instead of psychotherapy, EDMR, etc, which bring up trauma, are you able to find a therapist who can help you with mindfulness and learning to use healthy distractions to cope with emotional pain? While you're dealing with neuro-emotions due to withdrawal, it's really not the time to do a lot of trauma process work. You can do that after your nervous system is recovered from withdrawal.

 

You need to find another coping tool besides alcohol or you're never going to get to the place where you no longer numb yourself to function, be it alcohol or psych drugs. 

 

Many of us go through withdrawal feeling like we're re-living a lot of old trauma. But this goes away during the healing process. It's possible some of your intense emotional pain right now is because the fear center of your brain is on high alert and your nervous system is hyper-reacting to any stressor due to withdrawal. That's not the time to go into trauma therapy. It's the time to rest and find calming activities and ways of healthy distracting and self-soothing. 

 

[Onmyway]

Hi @Kat66, 

I am on the other side of the trauma work recommendation here so my views are not SA's views (take them with a grain of salt) - just want to make that disclaimer. I do agree with @getofflex and @Shep that if trauma is not bothering you (i.e. you are not having flashbacks etc.) you shouldn't go poking the bear and attempt to resolve life-long issues. However, I differ in that I think that if trauma is getting activated during withdrawal, it may be inevitable to address it and addressing it may help bring some relief. Otherwise stick to CBT. I have been doing EMDR and IFS work to deal with trauma. Both have proven partially helpful. But I have to say that my current symptoms are not awful. I could not have done this in the beginning of withdrawal. What is more important though is to find a trauma therapist that both 1) accepts withdrawal and understands that you have heightened emotions and are more vulnerable and 2)understands how important it is to do trauma work safely. My old therapist (who specializes in trauma) was extremely careful. She does EMDR but didn't do it with me for about 2 years into withdrawal because she didn't think it was safe for me given my level of distress from WD already. I have found EMDR helpful. But if you are doing it, don't do it while you are in wave or immediately after you have made a cut or when there is another distressing situation. 

 

I want to also reiterate the importance of not doing alcohol. Here is how you can think of alcohol. Imagine that you have a wound on your arm. It is slowly healing but taking its time. Imagine then that occasionally you rub spoilt meat on it. The meat is cold and it gives you relief at the time but it is also infected. So now you have infected that wound, bacteria are feasting on it and your body has to start a new inflammation process - the wound gets infected/red/raw/hot. Your body is amazing, it will heal eventually but it will get worse for a month or longer. It is also possible that one of those times the infection will be so bad that you may have to go to hospital and the healing may take months. That is what alcohol is like for the brain in withdrawal. 

 

When the symptoms get really bad, try Claire Weekes' methods. Lean into the emotion instead of trying to avoid it. It should slowly pass. For anhedonia and lack of motivation - do things anyway - you liked drawing but it doesn't give you joy now - draw anyway - in time it will start giving you joy. Have a look at this too: 

Behavioral-Activation-for-Depression.pdf (umich.edu)

Hope you start feeling better soon.

OMW

[Kat66]

On 6/3/2022 at 11:50 AM, Ariel said:

 

NERVE REGENERATION CAN CAUSE UNPLEASANT SENSATIONS. As counterintuitive as it is,  HEALING CAN FEEL LIKE HURT. 
But it's NOT further hurt or damage. It's the REVERSAL of damage. 

Fascinating, thank you. This definitely feels very real for me at the moment. I am experiencing an almost constant feeling of unidentifiable pain, more emotional than physical, but the physical element is concentrated in my gut.

 

 

On 6/3/2022 at 12:46 PM, getofflex said:

Bingo.  We've discussed this before.  You may enjoy the drink at the time, but then pay the price later.  Is it worth it? 

 

On 6/3/2022 at 1:21 PM, Shep said:

But drinking is continuing to be a problem, as you just posted: 

I have been off SA for a while (the sheer amount of pain everyone was going through was overwhelming me, so I had to take a break), and had a longish window earlier in the year. I made the mistake of thinking I was 'OK' and started drinking again, not to excess, but moderately as before all this started. I was OK for a while then the sh*t hit the fan. We offered to look after a friend's puppy while they were on holiday for two weeks which was very stressful and pushed me back into the worst wave I've ever had. I 'took my eye off the ball' and, on revisiting SA have realised at this point in my taper it's obvious that I need to stop the alcohol. I find lemon balm tea and kalms tablets help, so I'll swap them out whenever I feel like a drink. I'm also working on methods to calm the vagus nerve (cold water, humming, yoga etc) which are taking a while but I'm told they work eventually by building up the resilience of the vagus nerve.

 

12 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Here is how you can think of alcohol. Imagine that you have a wound on your arm. It is slowly healing but taking its time. Imagine then that occasionally you rub spoilt meat on it. The meat is cold and it gives you relief at the time but it is also infected. So now you have infected that wound, bacteria are feasting on it and your body has to start a new inflammation process - the wound gets infected/red/raw/hot. Your body is amazing, it will heal eventually but it will get worse for a month or longer. It is also possible that one of those times the infection will be so bad that you may have to go to hospital and the healing may take months. That is what alcohol is like for the brain in withdrawal. 

This really hit home. Thanks @Onmyway.

 

 

On 6/3/2022 at 1:21 PM, Shep said:

Many of us go through withdrawal feeling like we're re-living a lot of old trauma. But this goes away during the healing process. It's possible some of your intense emotional pain right now is because the fear center of your brain is on high alert and your nervous system is hyper-reacting to any stressor due to withdrawal. That's not the time to go into trauma therapy. It's the time to rest and find calming activities and ways of healthy distracting and self-soothing. 

This makes perfect sense to me. I'm really not sure what to do about the trauma work. On the one hand it makes perfect sense to avoid it, like you say @Shep and @getofflex, but on the other hand, the intense ruminative intrusive thoughts and feelings and the constant high alert state I am in makes me want to address the trauma. @Shep You asked if I was still in therapy. I have had to take a break as it was making me feel worse not better. Perhaps precisely because this sort of intense scrutiny of past trauma is not the thing to do during WD. My therapist recommended I practice self compassion, which does work to calm me down, so I think I will concentrate on ways to self-sooth and self-comfort, as well as grounding and mindfulness.

 

 

The bottom line is that coming back on SA has reminded me that I'm still very much in WD and, as frustrating as it is, I'll have to just stick it out till the bitter end.

 

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply so thoroughly xxx

 

[Greatful]

@Kat66

I think it will be okay to do some of the breathing-naming and describing where you feel the sensations in your body--it talks about this in the book The Body Keeps Score---

I don't think doing deep trauma work is the key right now--self care-learning how the trauma is in your body -doing things like you are doing-  strengthen your vagus nerve- self compassion. 

Can your therapist gently guide you in just some CBT-compassion-validation-

just listening to how you feel that day and suggest things to help you with that

Is your therapist sympathetic to WD?  

My therapist let's me do a lot of talking and expressing how I am feeling--emotions-fears-right now I think we need to feel some validation and a listening ear, compassion, gentle guidance. She does try and keep me focused on myself and things to do to help me.  If I have something specific that I am dealing with we will talk about it and do some work on that.  

 

One day at a time Kat♥️

 

 

 

[Kat66]

On 6/4/2022 at 6:55 PM, Greatful said:

@Kat66

I think it will be okay to do some of the breathing-naming and describing where you feel the sensations in your body--it talks about this in the book The Body Keeps Score---

I don't think doing deep trauma work is the key right now--self care-learning how the trauma is in your body -doing things like you are doing-  strengthen your vagus nerve- self compassion. 

Can your therapist gently guide you in just some CBT-compassion-validation-

just listening to how you feel that day and suggest things to help you with that

Is your therapist sympathetic to WD?  

My therapist let's me do a lot of talking and expressing how I am feeling--emotions-fears-right now I think we need to feel some validation and a listening ear, compassion, gentle guidance. She does try and keep me focused on myself and things to do to help me.  If I have something specific that I am dealing with we will talk about it and do some work on that.  

 

One day at a time Kat♥️

 

 

 

My therapist is sympathetic to WD but isn't an expert. She recommended I try EMDR but it's clear now that the trauma work I've been doing recently with her has set me back so I'm going to just practice self care and self compassion for the foreseeable. I'm going to check in with Baylissa's site and Claire Weekes too. And of course carry on with The Body Keeps The Score.

[Kat66]

Guys I’m really struggling and just have to get this all written down. I feel like my life is spiralling out of control. My life has become so small as the slightest thing sets off my CNS so I’m on permanent high alert. So I sit on the sofa during most of my free time just trying to stay still and quiet. I’m either on here seeking reassurance, or attempting to read ‘the body keeps the score’, only my ability to concentrate is hugely impaired, so I can’t even get relief from the simple act of reading. My only relief comes in the form of sleep and soaps, which distract me for 30 minutes then it’s back to panicking about how deep into the rabbit hole I’ve fallen and how my life feels like It’s over. My only exercise is walking the dog and a little gentle yoga. Before all this I was doing strength workouts several times a week and HIIT sessions too. I am so angry and irritable I can barely speak to my husband, and on top of that I have such awful anhedonia i don’t feel anything towards him, or anything for that matter. I can’t stand being around people. Life has lost its meaning, joy, and purpose. I am practising all the right things, self compassion, meditation, radical acceptance, but it all feels so empty. Things are getting worse not better. Sorry, I just needed to get all that out of my head and onto ‘paper’.

[Roserdl]

Hi Kat

 

I understand.  I have the same symptoms except for cog fog.

 

It might be helpful to try and break up routine.  Even if it's to go outside and sit in sun and Journal and maybe switch over to general positive health content.  Make small goals to do something each day non withdrawal related

 

I'm trying lens neurofeedback to help with the depression and being stuck in fight or flight loop.  I will let you know if it helps.  It's very tough when the depression is so intense.  I'm trying non med interventions to help it so if anything works I'll pass it along

[LotusRising]

@Kat66

 

I can relate so wholeheartedly with everything you just said!

 

My husband has been my main source of support and while I'm ever grateful for him, it's hard to reciprocate any kind of emotion - I feel pretty trapped in my own head most of the time. I get stuck in the same thought spirals day after day and struggle to stay positive and without feeling like a victim to this process. As much as I try to contain my irritability, my family definitely gets the brunt of it. My mind is always going to where I was before - successful career, daily workouts, energy, good mom to my kids - but some days when I actually take the time to sit with my thoughts, I know that they aren't always true - a career doesn't define me, my body will be strong again and I think I'm still a good mom to my kids, even if some days I don't believe it. We are all just doing the best we can, right?

 

I think it's great that you're getting out to walk your dog and if gentle yoga is all that your body can handle, then so be it. I'm not enjoying people at all right now either, no one can really relate to what I'm going through, so I'm just keeping my world small for now and I've just accepted that this is the way it has to be at the moment. Finding purpose is a tough one - I just started volunteering for a small organization that helps people in need of little tasks like shopping, organizing, or conversation- mostly elderly. It gets me out of the house, but without the stressful commitment of a job. Would some kind of volunteer opportunity maybe work to bring you some purpose as well?

 

The healing process is just a lot of time, isn't it? It sort of feels like life is just passing by. But if I had to say one good thing about this process, it's that I'm getting a lot of time to really look at myself and where I am, where I was and where I want to be. Not everyone gets that opportunity because they are busy racing from one thing to another. I just try to tell myself that it's a gift I've been given to discover a better, more true to me life, without a mask.

 

I'm sorry you're feeling this way, but know you're not alone 💕 

[Kat66]

2 hours ago, Roserdl said:

Hi Kat

 

I understand.  I have the same symptoms except for cog fog.

 

It might be helpful to try and break up routine.  Even if it's to go outside and sit in sun and Journal and maybe switch over to general positive health content.  Make small goals to do something each day non withdrawal related

 

I'm trying lens neurofeedback to help with the depression and being stuck in fight or flight loop.  I will let you know if it helps.  It's very tough when the depression is so intense.  I'm trying non med interventions to help it so if anything works I'll pass it along

Thanks @Roserdl that sounds like good advice to break things up a bit. When you say general health content you mean on the internet and not necessarily WD related? What is lens neurofeedback? I really need to get out of this ever spiralling negativity which is probably neuroemotions but feels too real. Let me know if anything works for you?

Thanks for understanding and replying, and caring. I need this validation today, I feel so alone in this! 

[Kat66]

2 hours ago, MedRN said:

@Kat66

 

I can relate so wholeheartedly with everything you just said!

 

 

Thank you @MedRN for understanding and letting me know you get it. This journey can feel so lonely sometimes. It's so good that you feel able to accept where you are and that this is how things are right now. I find this really tough. Patience has never been one of my strong traits and it's being tested to the max right now. I work part time three days a week which does help and I was a volunteer at the Samaritans until I had to give it up as I couldn't give what I needed to give. Volunteering does sound like something I could revisit though. 
 

That feeling of being trapped in your own head though....ugh. Do you ever feel like you might have a full on meltdown and might end up being sectioned or something? When you get into the thought spirals this sort of stuff starts popping into your head. My anger in particular worries me. That's why I prefer to sit on my own. The slightest thing p*****es me off. How do you cope with your irritability, anger? Does anything help you?

Thanks again for understanding x

[Roserdl]

I was referring to overall positive health content related to healing.

 

Lens is used in traumatic brain injuries and many other physical and emotional conditions.  It uses a very low frequency radio wave to help reset stuck brainwave patterns.  It's passive unlike traditional neurofeedback and supposed to help much quicker.  Four to 11 sessions instead of 20 to 40.   

 

I know you are down and it's tough to remember but you have made progress with windows and you can get back there. Many stories on here with people reporting a really bad wave only to then turn the corner.

 

Did anything happen to make it worse?

 

You are doing great holding on.  Pm anytime if you need support

 

 

 

[LotusRising]

@Kat66

 

To be honest, I think my level of acceptance varies from day to day and minute to minute sometimes - I definitely feel angry a lot. Why me? Why us, right? I used to get my anger out with a good workout, or by numbing with a few glasses of wine, but my body just can't handle the strenuous exercise right now and drinking just doesn't seem worth jeopardizing how far I've come. I've tried walking, but it doesn't give me the same rush as a good workout. Withdrawal has a way of really making you feel all the feels, doesn't it? BUT, I do love music, so if I need a boost, I'll put on some good music - you know the kind that gives you goosebumps? yeah, that kind. I blast it in the house and in the car with the base and volume maxxed and just let my body feel and move with it. It really helps. I also love a good sunny day, so when the sun is out, I make sure to get my but out there, so my body can feel it. 

 

I also have a great therapist and I can tell her pretty much everything. She doesn't get withdrawal, but she gets the invalidation I feel from the medical system and the anger and shame I deal with for even taking medication to begin with. Her eyes don't glaze over when I tell her about my symptoms and how crappy I feel - helps me to get it all out. 

 

How about you? Do you like music? Have a good therapist you can hash out your feelings with?

[Greatful]

@Kat66  

I with you on the finding it hard to accept putting our lives on hold....Can you break it down and say I am safe, I  will be okay day.  I will deal with tomorrow tomorrow.  

 

1 hour ago, Kat66 said:

That feeling of being trapped in your own head though....ugh. Do you ever feel like you might have a full on meltdown and might end up being sectioned or something?

Oh my gosh, there times that my brain is in a panic, it's  frantically trying to find a way out.  So if you see a crazy woman running by your house waving my arms like a lunatic, with men in white coats running after me with a big needle with a hefty dose of Haldol or some sort of sedative that's me🏃‍♂️

  Sadly I've had that urge one to many times that I can tell myself that it will pass.  Then I have to hold out long enough telling myself I am not going crazy or I am not going to snap. 

 

More days then not I have to work hard on the low mood and sadness and fear of not healing.    

WHO AM I?   The crazy woman running down the road, the scared  inner child, the person I think and want to be  that's deep inside of me.

 

I agree with trying to do something little everyday.   Molly told me instead of asking  yourself why this or that ask yourself what you can do today.  So as the day goes on try to add on little things.  Shower, dog walk, water plants.   If there is a day were there isn't much you can do, that's okay too.    Sometimes I hate that word accept LOL..I guess like you I don't have a lot of patience and the local stores don't sell it.  So what choice do we have but to dig down deep and do what we can each day to make it to our pillows.❤️

 

You know we are here for you, you are never alone, someone is always online❤️

 

I also think it is hard to reach out sometimes, no energy or will to write, but just do it anyway and find some comfort that a open ear is always waiting to listen.🌞

[Kat66]

Guys I’ll reply at more length when I can, but I have a full on family  weekend which will finish me off I know! For now, sending hugs xxx

[Kat66]

15 hours ago, MedRN said:

I also have a great therapist and I can tell her pretty much everything. She doesn't get withdrawal, but she gets the invalidation I feel from the medical system and the anger and shame I deal with for even taking medication to begin with. Her eyes don't glaze over when I tell her about my symptoms and how crappy I feel - helps me to get it all out. 

 

How about you? Do you like music? Have a good therapist you can hash out your feelings with?

What kind of therapist do you have? I've been seeing a therapist recently to try and understand myself better, but I made the mistake of starting trauma work with her and now I feel worse than ever! Maybe I should revisit her and use the sessions to explore the symptoms, and just vent, get it all out there. It sounds like that helps you a lot.

 

I love music, but I am a highly sensitive person (HSP) and as such,  I can't handle the insanely strong emotions music triggers in me right now. All I can manage to listen to is meditation music/birdsong/sounds of waves. 'Normal' music is just too triggering for me, does that make sense?

 

15 hours ago, Greatful said:

@Kat66  

I with you on the finding it hard to accept putting our lives on hold....Can you break it down and say I am safe, I  will be okay day.  I will deal with tomorrow tomorrow.  

 

Oh my gosh, there times that my brain is in a panic, it's  frantically trying to find a way out.  So if you see a crazy woman running by your house waving my arms like a lunatic, with men in white coats running after me with a big needle with a hefty dose of Haldol or some sort of sedative that's me🏃‍♂️

  Sadly I've had that urge one to many times that I can tell myself that it will pass.  Then I have to hold out long enough telling myself I am not going crazy or I am not going to snap. 

 

More days then not I have to work hard on the low mood and sadness and fear of not healing.    

WHO AM I?   The crazy woman running down the road, the scared  inner child, the person I think and want to be  that's deep inside of me.

 

I agree with trying to do something little everyday.   Molly told me instead of asking  yourself why this or that ask yourself what you can do today.  So as the day goes on try to add on little things.  Shower, dog walk, water plants.   If there is a day were there isn't much you can do, that's okay too.    Sometimes I hate that word accept LOL..I guess like you I don't have a lot of patience and the local stores don't sell it.  So what choice do we have but to dig down deep and do what we can each day to make it to our pillows.❤️

 

You know we are here for you, you are never alone, someone is always online❤️

 

I also think it is hard to reach out sometimes, no energy or will to write, but just do it anyway and find some comfort that a open ear is always waiting to listen.🌞

 

WHO AM I is a question that becomes more relevant with each passing day! I feel like I have changed so much in the last two years. I literally do not know who I am any more, other than an angry, crazy woman. I love the image of you being chased by men in white coats!!

 

I like Molly's thinking, stop with the whys and concentrate on doing something little. I have so many layers of thoughts, spirals, and loops, but underneath is a person who needs to find a way to get 'to her pillow' each day as you say.

 

THIS IS THE HARDEST THING I HAVE EVER HAD TO DO IN MY LIFE. PERIOD.

 

I don't know what I'd do without this site,

Sending love and support to everyone on this *%&^$(£^**ing horrible journey xxx

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

13 hours ago, Kat66 said:

What kind of therapist do you have? I've been seeing a therapist recently to try and understand myself better, but I made the mistake of starting trauma work with her and now I feel worse than ever! Maybe I should revisit her and use the sessions to explore the symptoms, and just vent, get it all out there. It sounds like that helps you a lot.

 

Many members are lacking in non drug coping skills.  Some members find it helpful to learn general life coping skills so that when they get off their drug they are able to manage any issues without resorting to a drug again.  I found CBT helpful and many of the non drug coping skills that I learned during my taper are being used for other health issues and coping with life now I am off my AD for 7 months.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

Acceptance

[Kat66]

Thanks @ChessieCat I’m in my 50s and have never felt less able to cope with life.