Kat66: should I reinstate or plough on drug free?

[Kat66]

Thank you so much for your message @Greatful. SA is a great resource, but sometimes my brain struggles with the sheer volume of information. I’ve noticed like yourself my brain can’t keep up with a lot of things and even simple mental puzzles I struggle with. And like you if I push myself either mentally or physically I soon know about it. I won’t give up though and will slowly work my way through everything on the site. It is hugely reassuring to read others’ stories and realise I’m not alone with these insane symptoms. I was going to ask you a question but have completely forgotten, what a surprise! Thank you again for your support it is very much appreciated x

[getofflex]

Can you please give us a thorough and complete list of your symptoms and how severe each one is? Thank you.  

[Altostrata]

10 hours ago, Kat66 said:

anxiety, anger, irritability and anhedonia

 

What do you mean by anxiety? Do any thoughts accompany your spurts of anger or irritability?

 

Are any symptoms worse after you take citalopram every day? What time of day (o'clock) do you take it?

 

You've been on one antidepressant or another continuously for 8 years. Emotional anesthesia is an outcome of long-term antidepressant use, it can be unmasked when you come off, or it can be a withdrawal symptom. We see that it very gradually dissipates over many months. You've been off the drugs only 5 weeks.

 

Do you also have brain fog?

 

Are you still drinking alcohol?

 

10 hours ago, Kat66 said:

My sleep pattern remains unaffected really, just broken.

 

What is your sleep pattern?

[Kat66]

1 hour ago, getofflex said:

Can you please give us a thorough and complete list of your symptoms and how severe each one is? Thank you.  

Anxiety and intense fear; ruminating, overthinking, catastrophising, in particular about my marriage, and how my life will be in the future. Intense fear of my future and around my husband, worrying if I still love him. Stuck in permanent fight or flight mode.  SEVERE.

 

Anhedonia; taking very little pleasure in life, everything is dull and boring. SEVERE.

 

Apathy; very little motivation to do anything. Not really caring much about anything or anyone, including myself. SEVERE.

 

Fatigue; lack of energy to do even the most basic of tasks. MODERATE to SEVERE.

 

Irritability and short tempered; My temper turns on a knife edge and I’ll explode at the slightest thing, even when there’s no reason. SEVERE.

 

Self-loathing; hatred of myself and my lack of motivation to ‘get on with stuff’, whatever the ‘stuff’ is. MODERATE to SEVERE.

 

Brain fog; finding it difficult to think clearly, read effectively, process conversations, remember things. SEVERE.

 

Rage; again, similar to irritability above, I can explode into rage from nothing, and find it difficult to control. SEVERE.

 

Thoughts of suicide; just thoughts, but ideation sometimes that not being here would be preferable to this endless Groundhog Day of nothingness. MODERATE.

Inability to focus; finding it hard to concentrate for longer than a couple of minutes. SEVERE.

 

Feeling like my nerves are shot; not being able to take much stimulation or loud noises, startling easily, needing a lot of quiet time. SEVERE.

 

Feeling disconnected from my surroundings and other people; as if nothing is real. Im in the room with people but am disconnected somehow, difficult to describe. SEVERE.

 

Something similar to depression; but not depression, feels like an intense version of depression, this one’s really difficult to describe. The emptiness and lack of feeling is there, but it feels different from episodes I’ve had in the past. MODERATE to SEVERE.

 

is that detailed enough @getofflex or do you need more?

 

 

[Kat66]

49 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

What do you mean by anxiety? Do any thoughts accompany your spurts of anger or irritability?

 

Are any symptoms worse after you take citalopram every day? What time of day (o'clock) do you take it?

 

You've been on one antidepressant or another continuously for 8 years. Emotional anesthesia is an outcome of long-term antidepressant use, it can be unmasked when you come off, or it can be a withdrawal symptom. We see that it very gradually dissipates over many months. You've been off the drugs only 5 weeks.

 

Do you also have brain fog?

 

Are you still drinking alcohol?

 

 

What is your sleep pattern?

…by anxiety I mean intense fear accompanied by ruminating and overthinking/catastrophising which leads to basically feeling like a rabbit in headlights. I get stuck in permanent fight or flight mode.

 

When I have an angry outburst I have no thoughts, just seeing red and lashing out. 
 

When I’m irritable (usually with my husband) my thoughts are usually critical of him and frustration that he’s messed up yet again, or that I’m fed up of him. This is my perception of his actions as usually it’s a huge overreaction on my part.

 

I take citalopram at around 9 am every day and to my knowledge my symptoms are no different before or after, they tend to be worse early on in the day and later in the evening. 
 

I have brain fog yes, and I drink alcohol, not excessively but enough to anaesthetise the anxiety. 
 

I go to bed around 10.30-11.30 and have no great problems getting to sleep. I tend to wake around 5am and struggle to get back to sleep due to racing thoughts. I do usually fall asleep again and wake up around 7.30/8am. Upon waking, my anxiety is usually sky high. Does that help?

[Kat66]

I’ve also realised there’s a lot of panic with the anxiety and intense fear, it feels very visceral. 

[Greatful]

@Kat66  I am so sorry you are in so much pain.  

  I know about how the  panic, desperation, and most of everything you described feels.  You feel like you are losing your mind. 

 

It does slowly get better, slowly unfortunately.  When I ct'd my Seroquel after 6 weeks I thought I was going crazy.  I became paranoid and almost had a break with reality.  I thought when the birds were singing,, what if they are going to start talking to me,  went I was out side and the wind would blow I was worried that I would hear a mans voice talking to me.  I would get the intense fear, sometimes I would have fear that was so real I would have to look around and see what is around me that I should fear.  Creepy!  I was afraid to go outside for awhile.  Things are slowly getting better.  I am not worried about the wind or birds anymore.  Point is our brains are scrabbling to work right.  I would like for you to read this story about a woman recovering from Benzo W/D. Altro  said this will apply to anyone recovering from drugs affecting their brains.

 

Please do not put any pressure on yourself right now.  There is nothing you feel you should be doing that is more important than healing and taking care of yourself.  ♥️

Click on the title and it should open.

 

 

 

[Cheeky]

Hey Kat, 

I just wanted to say hi and hope your managing the best you can . 
Cheeky

[Kat66]

Hi Cheeky, I’m hanging in there, didn’t drink last night which took a lot of willpower. How are you doing? X

[Cheeky]

7 minutes ago, Kat66 said:

Hi Cheeky, I’m hanging in there, didn’t drink last night which took a lot of willpower. How are you doing? X

Yeah just feeling really dad today, this is just really cruel. I’m such a confident person and when I feel like this , it’s like revert to being back as a baby. 
It’s a good thing you’ve stopped the alcohol even though we can’t even enjoy  anything in life . Hang in there hun

[Kat66]

Hi @Greatful I know something of what you mean about being paranoid, I just feel everyone’s annoyed with me especially my husband so I react by picking fights . None of it is real it’s my mind having a meltdown. I do feel like I’m slowly losing my grip on reality and worry I’ll end up doing something at best publicly embarrassing or at worst, getting fired of arrested. But again this is all catastrophising and probably to anyone not going through this, sounds like the ramblings of a crazy person.

 
incidentally I’ve just painted a ceiling. It might have well have been the Sistine chapel it was exhausting and now I need to sit down for an hour to recover. Crazy.

I’ll read that story now. 

Xx

 

[Kat66]

1 hour ago, Cheeky said:

Yeah just feeling really dad today, this is just really cruel. I’m such a confident person and when I feel like this , it’s like revert to being back as a baby. 
It’s a good thing you’ve stopped the alcohol even though we can’t even enjoy  anything in life . Hang in there hun

Hi @Cheeky, so sorry you’re having a rubbish day. Me too. I too feel like I’ve gone back to being helpless. I took two propranolol last night along with some lemon balm tea and some of the anxiety dissipated. But today it’s back to being sky high again, along with all the other symptoms. As far as alcohol goes, I don’t know if I will be able to quit 100% as I rely on it sometimes to take the edge off the worst psychological symptoms when I need a break from them. 
{{hugs}}

[Cheeky]

3 minutes ago, Kat66 said:

Hi @Cheeky, so sorry you’re having a rubbish day. Me too. I too feel like I’ve gone back to being helpless. I took two propranolol last night along with some lemon balm tea and some of the anxiety dissipated. But today it’s back to being sky high again, along with all the other symptoms. As far as alcohol goes, I don’t know if I will be able to quit 100% as I rely on it sometimes to take the edge off the worst psychological symptoms when I need a break from them. 
{{hugs}}

I could’ve done with a bottle today 😆 to get rid  of the aniexty.

[Neon]

Hey, I just wanted to drop by and give you my support. It is mind-boggling what these drugs can do and what they do to ones life and I just wanted to say you are not alone in this.

I really hope you are feeling better soon and reinstatement works soon. Big hug and love 🙂 

[Kat66]

1 hour ago, Neon said:

Hey, I just wanted to drop by and give you my support. It is mind-boggling what these drugs can do and what they do to ones life and I just wanted to say you are not alone in this.

I really hope you are feeling better soon and reinstatement works soon. Big hug and love 🙂 

Thank you so much @Neon honestly I’m blown away by the support on here. Same back to you xx

[Kat66]

13 hours ago, Greatful said:

wow, that was quite something to read. It’s true when they say knowledge is power. Knowing all this madness we’re feeling is the brain healing itself is strangely comforting.

Thank you for sharing xx

 

 

 

[Greatful]

@Kat66 I really found relief when I read that.  Now I can see why I was so delusional for awhile there.  But we are human when we are suffering so much pain (in a wave or new to the W/D) we can't always think rationally, like telling yourself well this pain and disruption is my brain healing.  I printed it out so I can reread it or show people like family what it feels like to go through W/D. 

 

Hang in there.

One minute at a time, one hour at a time, one day at a time.😊  When all this started it was extremely, horrendously hard to make it through the days.  I would get panicky think how am I going to make all day in this pain. It is getting better.

Big waves bring the panic back and I have to revert back to time segments through the day

 

[Kat66]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but it feels like it's getting harder by the day. I thought a couple of weeks ago things were hard, but every day my brain and body seem to struggle more. Your advice is therefore particularly relevant @Greatful to take it in short time segments and remind ourselves of this article about the brain healing itself xx

[Altostrata]

@Kat66your symptom pattern indicates your symptoms are from withdrawal, not from 1mg citalopram.

 

22 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I have brain fog yes, and I drink alcohol, not excessively but enough to anaesthetise the anxiety. 
 

I go to bed around 10.30-11.30 and have no great problems getting to sleep. I tend to wake around 5am and struggle to get back to sleep due to racing thoughts. I do usually fall asleep again and wake up around 7.30/8am. Upon waking, my anxiety is usually sky high.

 

This indicates that 1mg citalopram may be wearing off by early morning. What time (o'clock) do you take it?

 

Suggest you go to 2mg and observe the effect. It will probably take several days to ramp up.

 

Do you have a drink every night? Is this a long-term habit? It would be best if you gradually stopped drinking. The symptoms you report may be from the effect of alcohol on your shaky nervous system. Even if you feel it's immediately relaxing, the effect of alcohol may well be worsening your withdrawal symptoms.

[getofflex]

2 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I can't believe I'm saying this, but it feels like it's getting harder by the day.

I think you will probably be significantly helped if you stop drinking, as altostrata suggested.  The alcohol is a psychoactive substance, and can destabilize the nervous system even more.  It may give you short term relief for a few hours, but can cause problems in the longer term.  

[Kat66]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

This indicates that 1mg citalopram may be wearing off by early morning. What time (o'clock) do you take it?

 

Do you have a drink every night? Is this a long-term habit? It would be best if you gradually stopped drinking. The symptoms you report may be from the effect of alcohol on your shaky nervous system. Even if you feel it's immediately relaxing, the effect of alcohol may well be worsening your withdrawal symptoms.

I take it at 9am every day. Should I be taking it before bed then?

 

I’ve always been a drinker, and enjoy it. At the moment I drink most nights yes.  I don’t drink excessively, usually just one drink each time. Nevertheless I take on board what you and @getofflex say, that it’s not the best idea when I’m in W/D. I didn’t drink last night and my symptoms are no better today despite no alcohol for one day.
 

I’ll go up to 2mg and see what happens.

[Kat66]

34 minutes ago, getofflex said:

I think you will probably be significantly helped if you stop drinking, as altostrata suggested.  The alcohol is a psychoactive substance, and can destabilize the nervous system even more.  It may give you short term relief for a few hours, but can cause problems in the longer term.  

I hear you. I just can’t imagine never being able to enjoy a drink ever again, pathetic I know 😉

[getofflex]

You may be able to enjoy a drink in the future when you are healed from this.  😉

[Altostrata]

5 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I didn’t drink last night and my symptoms are no better today despite no alcohol for one day.

 

If your nervous system is shaken up by drug changes or alcohol, it may take weeks before it settles down. You cannot expect one day of anything to set you right.

[Cheeky]

Hey Kate, 

hang in there hun. It’s awful that we have to wait this out but unfortunately that’s how this beast goes . Reach out to us when your feeling awful, we know too well what your going through. 

[Onmyway]

On 7/31/2021 at 10:23 AM, Kat66 said:

I’m on 1mg citalopram reinstatement (two weeks) and am struggling with horrible symptoms. Has anyone tried theanine, lemon balm or magnesium or anything else that helps take the edge off? I do take magnesium but it doesn’t do anything…. Perhaps I’m taking the wrong type? I do drink alcohol to take the edge off but know this isn’t sustainable.

 

Any advice would be welcome, thanks!

Hi Katt66, 

I am so sorry you are struggling. It is, unfortunately, the nature of early withdrawal. 

The one thing that I would STOP right now is alcohol. While it may help the immediate calming of the symptoms, it is the one sure disruptor of withdrawal that has set many people way behind on their withdrawal path. Trust me on this one - I drank a little alcohol by mistake and it set me back severely. Once you do this, the reinstatement should start setting in and you should start stabilizing. But before you stop the alcohol it is hard to advise what to do. And no, we are not saying this because we are anti-alcohol or anti-fun etc. It is from the experience of many of the people here. Even people who have almost recovered are set back by the drinking of a glass of wine or beer. 

 

OMW

Edited August 3, 2021 by Onmyway

[Kat66]

5 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Hi Katt66, 

I am so sorry you are struggling. It is, unfortunately, the nature of early withdrawal. 

The one thing that I would STOP right now is alcohol. While it may help the immediate calming of the symptoms, it is the one sure disruptor of withdrawal that has set many people way behind on their withdrawal path. Trust me on this one - I drank a little alcohol by mistake and it set me back severely. Once you do this, the reinstatement should start setting in and you should start stabilizing. But before you stop the alcohol it is hard to advise what to do. And no, we are not saying this because we are anti-alcohol or anti-fun etc. It is from the experience of many of the people here. Even people who have almost recovered are set back by the drinking of a glass of wine or beer. 

 

OMW

Thanks @Onmyway, it’s very hard when you enjoy a glass of wine or a beer, but I will try my best to stay away from it. I may slip up every now and again but I’m only human 😉

[Onmyway]

Hi Kat, 

 

it is really up to you what you do with the information and advice that we give. The consequences of your actions are going to be suffered by you and only you. We can say we are sorry on the forum when you complain but that's the extent of how much we can help beyond advice. This advice is the result of lots of suffering and trial and error by thousands of members here over the years. We give it so that others don't suffer and come out of this nightmare as quickly and smoothly as possible. The rest is up to you. 

 

I understand the desire for respite and the relief of the relentless unpleasantness that this is. But for every shortcut you take you pay with longer and worse suffering. This is like hell in more ways than one. 

 

Since there are other threads on the questions that you've asked, I am going to move this to your intro thread. 

[Onmyway]

I see that others have also given you this advice. It is up to you now what you do with it. I would strongly recommend trying the non-drug techniques in the symptoms thread. Some of them work some of the time and often that is enough to give you some respite. It might help to get on the waiting list for NHS therapy - CBT helped me in the beginning of withdrawal to manage some of the symptoms of anxiety. It didn't fix them but was nevertheless helpful. You can self refer and your GP doesn't even need to know if you don't want him to know. 

 

Find an NHS psychological therapies service (IAPT) - NHS (www.nhs.uk)

[Kat66]

Thanks @Onmyway, I have now gone three nights without alcohol and gone up to 2mg citalopram. I’m not craving a drink which is what I was really worried about. I’m also taking more magnesium glycinate and vegan omega3. Instead of alcohol I’m drinking lemon balm tea and have a hot water bottle as a ‘comfort blanket’. My head feels a little clearer. I don’t know if it’ll last but there’s definitely a little improvement. 

[Onmyway]

Excellent news Kat, keep at it. 

👏

 

I liked Sainsbury's Mindful Moment teas for calming down but I am not sure if they would make things worse (I've stopped drinking them as ashwagandha seems to have some effect on the nervous system). I don't know much about lemon balm. Have you tried Claire Weeks' audio? Magnesium should also help. This will get better if you keep still and stable. I perfectly understand how hard it is to do when you are suffering as the need to seek relief is strong but patience and waiting is really the only thing that helps here. 

 

Walking really helped me dissipate the nervous energy so if you can do it (i.e. it doesn't make you worse) try it out as well. 

OMW

 

[Kat66]

15 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Excellent news Kat, keep at it. 

👏

 

I liked Sainsbury's Mindful Moment teas for calming down but I am not sure if they would make things worse (I've stopped drinking them as ashwagandha seems to have some effect on the nervous system). I don't know much about lemon balm. Have you tried Claire Weeks' audio? Magnesium should also help. This will get better if you keep still and stable. I perfectly understand how hard it is to do when you are suffering as the need to seek relief is strong but patience and waiting is really the only thing that helps here. 

 

Walking really helped me dissipate the nervous energy so if you can do it (i.e. it doesn't make you worse) try it out as well. 

OMW

 

I haven’t heard of Claire Weeks, what does she do?

My symptoms have returned today sadly but it was nice to have a little window where I felt a bit better. 
I do find walking helps, we have two dogs so I don’t have a choice! 

[Onmyway]

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

 

The Dr. Claire Weekes Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

[Kat66]

Thanks @Onmyway I’ll check those out x

[getofflex]

 

On 8/1/2021 at 4:21 AM, Kat66 said:

I’m willing to increase to 2mg, my only reservation is that I’ve read on here that if your symptoms worsen upon reinstatement it’s not a great idea to continue, that’s all.

 

 

 

The danger with reinstatement is the possibility of kindling, which would be indicated by a sudden strong onset of severe symptoms after the reinstatement.  Based on what you have told us, this is not so.  Earlier when I asked you how you felt after your reinstatement you ou said "overall I feel slightly worse", on July 28.  So that is why Altostrata suggested that you could increase your reinstatement to 2 mg from 1 mg.  If you are still feeling really bad, you may want to consider doing this.  At any rate, let us know how you are doing. 

[Kat66]

Hi @getofflex, I have been on an increased dose of 2mg for 4 days now and my symptoms are the same if not worse. They are severe, so maybe I just have to ride it out 'til things settle on the new dose?