Kat66: should I reinstate or plough on drug free?

[Greatful]

@Kat66

Hi Kat,  I was wondering how you were doing.  This is a beast for sure.  I think taking care of yourself and being as kind to yourself as you to yourself can be is a good idea.   

The distorted thoughts are hard.  Can you float with them?  Sometimes I try to think of a white dove flying or a white fluffy cloud.   I am glad you see that WD has a part in the distorted thoughts and anger.  When your angry picture a large red dot away from you and say to yourself that this is not me, this is WD. 

Be careful that you don't assume or mind read your husband and what he is thinking or feeling.  You may need to try and have some conversations with him and discuss some of these thoughts with him.  My therapist reminds me that mine is doing the best that he can with this.  

 

Seeing a therapist can be helpful.  Just know that it would be beneficial if they have any knowledge or believes in on  withdrawal and the negative affects these drugs can have on us.   If they are not up to date on the information ask if they would be interested in learning/educating themselves on it.

My therapist is being made aware of these things through me and another client.  I speak fairly open about it and even rant and rave sometimes.  She is aware of that I am a member of SA.  She agrees that the drugs are handed out to easily.  I say like candy.  

 

Did you ever watch Medicating Normal?  Well worth the small fee to watch.

Here is a link to their web site and a trailer you can watch

http://www.medicatingnormal.com

 

Here is a great therapist on you tube that has her own mini sections on therapy. You may find some help there.  I think she is good at explaining things.

https://www.youtube.com/c/TherapyinaNutshell  My therapist recommend(when I told her about something I watched on it) that I watch them more.

 

Hang in there Kat❤️

[ThatOneGirlStitch]

You are working through this, how amazing. In no way can that be easy. Im sorry you are still struggling with connecting to your husband. I am constantly irritable and when I snap, I really snap. Things literally go flying. I wish I could control it more, it takes a lot of energy. I am so sorry you are stuck in a distorted view. Are you having dpdr? 

[getofflex]

4 hours ago, Kat66 said:

Update; I've gone down to 1.8mg as of 6/1/22. I've been on 2mg since August 21 so I figured it was as good a time as any

Good for you, on doing a 10% reduction.  

 

4 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I'm going to get some psychotherapy to try to get to the bottom of my issues.

That's good - I hope it helps.  Just be careful if they try to give you drugs.  Keep us posted on how the reduction goes.   

[Sunnylight]

I am amazed that you are still be able to work. That must be so hard in this condition, it sounds horrible what you have to experience. I can relate to the anger/ rage things, I have them as well and afterwards I have a complete meltdown (my system can not handle it) and I am ashamed of myself. I do not want to be that person.... I am wondering what you mean by sorting out issues with a professional? Of course you do not have to tell anything about this but these anger spirals/ attacks are 'not you' right? Also not feeling for your partner I can relate to, it is a horrible feeling but it is temporalely, it will defenitely come back!

I really hope you get some relief soon, hang in there @Kat66 ❤️

[Kat66]

23 hours ago, Greatful said:

The distorted thoughts are hard.  Can you float with them?  Sometimes I try to think of a white dove flying or a white fluffy cloud.   I am glad you see that WD has a part in the distorted thoughts and anger.  When your angry picture a large red dot away from you and say to yourself that this is not me, this is WD. 

 

I find it hard to just exist when the thoughts are at their most intense. I am in a permanent state of extreme fight or flight and find it hard to do anything but just sit there. I can't talk and often cry.

 

 

23 hours ago, Greatful said:

Did you ever watch Medicating Normal?  Well worth the small fee to watch.

Here is a link to their web site and a trailer you can watch

http://www.medicatingnormal.com

 

Here is a great therapist on you tube that has her own mini sections on therapy. You may find some help there.  I think she is good at explaining things.

https://www.youtube.com/c/TherapyinaNutshell  My therapist recommend(when I told her about something I watched on it) that I watch them more.

 

Hang in there Kat❤️

 

I did see Medicating Normal yes, and have just started reading Anatomy of an Epidemic. I wish it was streaming free - it's something everyone needs to watch that's involved with this issue.

 

Yes I've come across Therapy in a Nutshell - she's very helpful. 

 

21 hours ago, ThatOneGirlStitch said:

Are you having dpdr? 

 

When I'm very anxious and in the grip of distorted thoughts, I feel somewhat 'detached' from myself and life around me - is that DPDR? It's a very weird feeling!

 

20 hours ago, getofflex said:

Just be careful if they try to give you drugs. 

 

I don't want to go an any more ADs but I was thinking about asking the doc for a short 'as and when needed' prescription for valium, for when I'm in an extremely anxious state. I can barely function when I'm like that! Any thoughts?

 

58 minutes ago, Sunnylight said:

I am amazed that you are still be able to work. That must be so hard in this condition, it sounds horrible what you have to experience. I can relate to the anger/ rage things, I have them as well and afterwards I have a complete meltdown (my system can not handle it) and I am ashamed of myself. I do not want to be that person.... I am wondering what you mean by sorting out issues with a professional? Of course you do not have to tell anything about this but these anger spirals/ attacks are 'not you' right? Also not feeling for your partner I can relate to, it is a horrible feeling but it is temporalely, it will defenitely come back!

I really hope you get some relief soon, hang in there @Kat66 ❤️

 

Thanks for your message @Sunnylight it gave me hope in many ways and I needed to hear it right now - mainly that I'm not alone in feeling these specific things like rage and lack of feelings for my husband. I don't want to be this person but it's like 'this person' has been within me for months now and I can't see her ever leaving, although everyone on here says it's all temporary. These changes in our personality feel so real and permanent don't they!!

 

When I talked about sorting out issues - I mean issues from my past which are unresolved. I want to dig deeper than I have done with something like CBT. Does that make sense?

 

Thanks all of you for checking in with me - love to all xxx

 

[Greatful]

@Kat66

3 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I find it hard to just exist when the thoughts are at their most intense. I am in a permanent state of extreme fight or flight and find it hard to do anything but just sit there. I can't talk and often cry.

 

I can totally relate.   I often times in the freeze mode of the fight or flight stage.  I am in a panic but stuck in place.  I can't do much of anything, super tense. Sometimes I have  brain panic and body panic.  Eventually I get to the point of a total melt down. 

Sometimes I am just in the freeze mode and super tense just  because.  This is the pits that's for sure. 

 

Do you get the tingling sensation throughout your body.  It's like there is something in your body that is moving around,  I feel it a lot in my arms and legs.  I think all of this is a part of inner akathisia.  The brain panic too.   

 

I can have DR just to have it lol..... I am here but not connected to anything or anyone.  And when the brain is in total disconnect  and you can't think let alone think with any common sense really makes you feel like you are half here or half human.  It can be scary at times.  I think my dr  is getting better from last summer though.

 

Kat did you have any personal or childhood trauma?  Can this be some of the anger issues?  You can also have drdp from that. 

 

3 hours ago, Kat66 said:

but I was thinking about asking the doc for a short 'as and when needed' prescription for valium,

I can certainly understand this but I would be careful with this.   I was using Xanax a lot last winter. Now I  have to taper this also.  It doesn't take much to get dependent on. 

There are so many factors to take into consideration starting a benzo type med.  Ask a  mod what there take is on it.   

 

You cut a little while ago, how is that affecting you?

 

My heart goes out to you Kat.  I am pulling for you❤️

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Greatful

[Sunnylight]

On 1/8/2022 at 7:01 PM, Kat66 said:

Thanks for your message @Sunnylight it gave me hope in many ways and I needed to hear it right now - mainly that I'm not alone in feeling these specific things like rage and lack of feelings for my husband. I don't want to be this person but it's like 'this person' has been within me for months now and I can't see her ever leaving, although everyone on here says it's all temporary. These changes in our personality feel so real and permanent don't they!!

Yes off course, I totally understand! It is extremely difficult to keep a clear mind and looking at yourselves 'from a distance' and thinking that's not me, that's just temporarily. It is extra difficult because you are feeling so bad already. I was at the point (this was actually before I went om AD and my lowest point) that I didn't really feel for my partner and didn't care also, I wouldn't have mind if it just ended (we are not married, together for about 5 years now). Am I so happy that we stuck together 🙏 but yes I can totally relate.

 

On 1/8/2022 at 7:01 PM, Kat66 said:

When I talked about sorting out issues - I mean issues from my past which are unresolved. I want to dig deeper than I have done with something like CBT. Does that make sense?

Yes, off course, and if not, it was ok too 😉 I can imagine that unresolved issues can function as an easy underlying trigger, like an button you maybe are not even aware of. But I can also imagine it can be hard and cost a lot of energy  to adress that in your condition now as well. But on the other hand maybe it can help you? Whatever you decide I wish you all the best! Sending love and light from Holland. ❤️

 

[Greatful]

 

@Kat66

Thinking about you and how you are doing? ❤️

[Kat66]

On 1/8/2022 at 9:28 PM, Greatful said:

@Kat66

I can totally relate.   I often times in the freeze mode of the fight or flight stage.  I am in a panic but stuck in place.  I can't do much of anything, super tense. Sometimes I have  brain panic and body panic.  Eventually I get to the point of a total melt down. 

Sometimes I am just in the freeze mode and super tense just  because.  This is the pits that's for sure. 

 

Do you get the tingling sensation throughout your body.  It's like there is something in your body that is moving around,  I feel it a lot in my arms and legs.  I think all of this is a part of inner akathisia.  The brain panic too.   

 

I can have DR just to have it lol..... I am here but not connected to anything or anyone.  And when the brain is in total disconnect  and you can't think let alone think with any common sense really makes you feel like you are half here or half human.  It can be scary at times.  I think my dr  is getting better from last summer though.

 

Kat did you have any personal or childhood trauma?  Can this be some of the anger issues?  You can also have drdp from that. 

 

I can certainly understand this but I would be careful with this.   I was using Xanax a lot last winter. Now I  have to taper this also.  It doesn't take much to get dependent on. 

There are so many factors to take into consideration starting a benzo type med.  Ask a  mod what there take is on it.   

 

You cut a little while ago, how is that affecting you?

 

My heart goes out to you Kat.  I am pulling for you❤️

 

 

19 hours ago, Greatful said:

 

Thinking about you and how you are doing? ❤️

Hi Greatful, so sorry for the delayed reply!  So, yes the bl**dy horrible panic freeze response. It's not getting any better I guess it just needs to be ridden out. I'm not sure about the tingling sensation; in the sense that my whole body feels like it's been plugged in at the wall and electricity is running through it, then yes. And if by brain panic you mean a feeling in your head that you can't move because of intense fear, then yes I get that too. Sometimes I don't move my head, just my eyes, my head is in such a frozen with fear state.

Oh yes I can relate to the feeling of being half there, half human. In answer to your question about trauma, then yes. I have had a couple of major traumas in my life, and possibly minor ones. This is the reason I want to have some psychotherapy, to try and get to the bottom of why my life sometimes unravels into deep depressions. I didn't know anger and DPDR could be the byproducts of trauma, that's interesting, and as the trauma in my life is probably unresolved, would explain a lot LOL!

 

Yes, I'm wary of starting on a benzo for the very reason you stated, I won't make this decision lightly believe me! @Onmyway @getofflex what are your thoughts on an 'as needed' prescription for valium to cope with intense anxiety spells?

 

I don't honestly know if the cut I made has affected me in any way - in all honesty every day is pretty much the same at the moment. It was a .2mg cut so (daft question) would that potentially make a difference to symptoms?

[Kat66]

On 1/10/2022 at 2:50 PM, Sunnylight said:

Am I so happy that we stuck together 🙏 but yes I can totally relate.

 

Yes, off course, and if not, it was ok too 😉 I can imagine that unresolved issues can function as an easy underlying trigger, like an button you maybe are not even aware of. But I can also imagine it can be hard and cost a lot of energy  to adress that in your condition now as well. But on the other hand maybe it can help you? Whatever you decide I wish you all the best! Sending love and light from Holland. ❤️

 

Hey @Sunnylight did your feelings return for your partner?

 

You raise an important point about going through therapy when in a sensitised state. It's hard even in a non sensitised state to confront challenging issues! But we don't seek therapy when everything's ok do we, so maybe now is as good a time as any?

 

xx

[Greatful]

@Kat66

10 minutes ago, Kat66 said:

I'm not sure about the tingling sensation; in the sense that my whole body feels like it's been plugged in at the wall and electricity is running through it, then yes. And if by brain panic you mean a feeling in your head that you can't move because of intense fear,

Yep the feeling of electricity or ant crawling under your skin in your veins.  Mine is most intense in my arms and legs. I get  inner shaking to. My brain panic is like it is franticly looking for a way out of this maze, terror like.   I can't think I can't think, happens a lot with it.  The thoughts stuck  half way and can't think all the way through. Just panic and terror of escape.  But my body is tense and feels stuck.  As you know I get also of brain sensations and painful ones sometimes.  Learning it's okay to feel and be vulnerable is scary and it's a strange uncomfortable awareness.  Especially if you have been wearing a emotional shield and hid inside yourself.  

 

You may have read that I see a therapist and she is helping me through my childhood trauma.  She does not recommend trauma therapy when I am in WD.  But because of WD and the meds not dulling me things are coming to the surface that I didn't even know fully and deeply the pain goes. I have been seeing her for many years but the real issue didn't fully arise until WD so now we can work and me. 

 Since I have been able to share some of my deepest fears/pain and thought distortions she is able to work with me on how to get past them.  Boy have I sobbed and exposed my pain to her lately.  I think she even had tear in her eyes once.  Sometimes just letting things out and letting the talk go where it may is helpful.....Sometimes I have a list of things I want to share with her....A flashback, the pain of WD, I even go on and on about these drugs, my fears, when and what I should push myself with.  Crazy as it is I will have epiphanies sometimes just by talking about my things. It is very liberating if you can get to the point of really feeling the pain and letting it out.  I sab a lot harder now and really let it out.  Even WD pain.

CBT is something that everyone should learn.  It's crazy how much negative cognitive distortion we have.  This impacts how we deal with/view things. 

Learning it's okay to feel and be vulnerable is scary and it's a strange uncomfortable awareness.  Especially if you have been wearing a emotional shield and hid inside yourself.  

 

Do you have flashbacks?

 

https://www.cumberlandheights.org/blogs/17-symtoms-of-pts

 

https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd-and-complex-ptsd/complex-ptsd/

 

I'll quit there.  I know I get long winded. If you find a good therapist, one that you connect with I think it will be helpful.  Remember you have to expose yourself, but that will come in time when you are ready and feel safe to share.

 

You will heal both from these drugs and your own personal growth and healing❤️

 

 

 

 

[Onmyway]

9 hours ago, Kat66 said:

Yes, I'm wary of starting on a benzo for the very reason you stated, I won't make this decision lightly believe me! @Onmyway @getofflex what are your thoughts on an 'as needed' prescription for valium to cope with intense anxiety spells?

 

There are varying opinions on this. You have to make your own decisions but the risks are that it might destabilize you further or that you get a paradoxical reaction. Dr Shipko says that you can occasionally. Before coming off of citalopram I LOVED xanax (alprazolam). It was the only drug that would quickly get me out of anxiety and also actually make me happy. I used it very very rarely - once or twice a month and at the lowest dose - 0.25. In the beginning of withdrawal I used it for a month quite regularly at 0.25-0.5mg a day and started clock-watching so stopped CT. Now, when I take 1/5th of xanax it just makes me nauseous and depressed, does make extreme anxiety slightly better but I pay for it the next two days. I have done this maybe 2-3 times in the last year.  For me Sainsbury's Mindful Moments (lemon balm, ashwagana, camomile ) tea makes a much bigger difference although it can make me dizzy and sometimes also nauseous so I also reserve that for the severest moments  (I react to everything with nausea!)  

Are you still taking the D vitamins? What dosage are you doing? I would lower that to as little as possible - enough to not make you deficient. Would you consider cutting your dose of Kilovance by a bit to see if that will make a difference? Sometimes WD makes us more sensitive to other drugs. It can cause depression (1/10 side effect) and anxiety or make such  worse. I am suggesting that because I am extremely sensitive to birth control pills - they plunge me into unimaginable depression and possible that HRT may impact you as well and even more in WD. 

 

9 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I don't honestly know if the cut I made has affected me in any way - in all honesty every day is pretty much the same at the moment. It was a .2mg cut so (daft question) would that potentially make a difference to symptoms?

Yes, at times I have reacted to a 2% cut severely. But it doesn't mean that you will always react that way. What I would suggest is to give yourself until the summer without any further cuts or increases and if you are in a good place you can start tapering then cautiously. Is there a reason to hurry your taper? Did you have adverse reactions to citalopram? I can't remember the details and your thread has had a healthy growth spurt   If no ADRs, then waiting to stabilize further can help. Remember that you have made quite a few changes since the CT including reinstatements and quitting alcohol so your nervous system has had a beating. 

 

Do your symptoms change during the day? What about when you take your meds or your supplements ? Can you separate those to see how that will relate? This can help us see if some of the supplements or drugs impact you badly. 

 

Please be gentle with yourself. 

Hugs, 
OMW

Edited January 13, 2022 by Onmyway

[Kat66]

22 hours ago, Greatful said:

 

You may have read that I see a therapist and she is helping me through my childhood trauma.  She does not recommend trauma therapy when I am in WD.  But because of WD and the meds not dulling me things are coming to the surface that I didn't even know fully and deeply the pain goes. I have been seeing her for many years but the real issue didn't fully arise until WD so now we can work and me. 

OK, I confess I'm a bit confused. If your therapist doesn't recommend trauma therapy whilst in WD why is she seeing you? Is the therapy not just overwhelming for your CNS? Or does it genuinely help you?

22 hours ago, Greatful said:

CBT is something that everyone should learn.  It's crazy how much negative cognitive distortion we have.  This impacts how we deal with/view things. 

Learning it's okay to feel and be vulnerable is scary and it's a strange uncomfortable awareness.  Especially if you have been wearing a emotional shield and hid inside yourself.  

 

Do you have flashbacks?

 

I agree about CBT being an essential skill we should al learn. My cognitive distortions are OFF THE FREAKING SCALE and are getting worse, hence wanting to start some therapy to try and get things back on track. What worries me though is that these cognitive distortions are WD induced and therefore is it appropriate to seek therapy whilst in WD or better to wait until things are better. But things are so bad I need something to stop me going full on 'crazy'! I do seriously worry sometimes that I'll have a full on meltdown in public, or just simply go insane because my brain can't handle my thoughts any more!

 

I don't have flashbacks as such, just 'monkey brain' body responses to certain situations which remind me of the traumas I went through, if that makes sense? 

 

Sending love xxx

[Kat66]

17 hours ago, Onmyway said:

For me Sainsbury's Mindful Moments (lemon balm, ashwagana, camomile ) tea makes a much bigger difference although it can make me dizzy and sometimes also nauseous so I also reserve that for the severest moments  (I react to everything with nausea!)  

 

Thanks OMW for the advice about benzos - it's an incredibly tempting thing to do especially reading what you said about it getting you out of anxiety very quickly. However, I take on board what you said and might try the Mindful Moments tea instead for now. I already take a cup of lemon balm tea before bed most nights and it does help my sleep. I know EXACTLY what you mean about nausea and dizziness. I too react to stronger things this way. Not the reaction you want is it?!

 

17 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Are you still taking the D vitamins? What dosage are you doing? I would lower that to as little as possible - enough to not make you deficient. Would you consider cutting your dose of Kilovance by a bit to see if that will make a difference? Sometimes WD makes us more sensitive to other drugs. It can cause depression (1/10 side effect) and anxiety or make such  worse. I am suggesting that because I am extremely sensitive to birth control pills - they plunge me into unimaginable depression and possible that HRT may impact you as well and even more in WD. 

I take one tablet a week of vit D @1000IU. Do you think that's OK? I haven't yet considered doing anything about the kliovance as I didn't want to start messing with another drug when I'm already doing that with citalopram. What are your thoughts on that, cut the pills in half, alternate days, that sort of thing? So the kliovance could possibly be contributing to or worsening my depression/anxiety? Wow. To be honest I'm not sure if they're doing anything anyway - I'm guessing you can taper off them like you'd taper off anything else?

 

I appreciate your advice OMW

Take care xx

[Onmyway]

37 minutes ago, Kat66 said:

I take one tablet a week of vit D @1000IU. Do you think that's OK? I haven't yet considered doing anything about the kliovance as I didn't want to start messing with another drug when I'm already doing that with citalopram. What are your thoughts on that, cut the pills in half, alternate days, that sort of thing? So the kliovance could possibly be contributing to or worsening my depression/anxiety? Wow. To be honest I'm not sure if they're doing anything anyway - I'm guessing you can taper off them like you'd taper off anything else?

 

I appreciate your advice OMW

Take care xx

 

Hi @Kat66, 

By the way, in the very beginning my doc prescribed clonazepam when I wanted to get some sleep. It did make me sleep for a few hours but also made me so nauseous and miserable for a few days after and I didn't realize that it was the cause. So benzos in withdrawal are a mixed bag. 

 

I think 1000 IU a week of vit D should be ok. Does it increase your symptoms within a couple of hours after you take it? Maybe you can take it spread over the whole week - TESCO has small dose pills, everyone else has really large amounts. In the UK everyone is pretty much deficient in the winter months and sometimes that can also be bad for mood. Rock and a hard place! I am always deficient and sometimes it helps my mood a bit though it can also make me very edgy. I recommend a vacation to the tropics

 

Regarding the Kilovance, do the same thing, try tracking your symptoms after you take it - does it make a difference? Here are the side effects. I know there is also a thread on HRT here, it might be helpful to look at it. Some people find it helpful, others don't. 

 

Kliovance - Patient Information Leaflet (PIL) - (emc) (medicines.org.uk)

"Common side effects (affects 1 to 10 users in 100)

• Headache
• Depression, new or worse than before
• Nausea

Uncommon side effects (affects 1 to 10 users in 1,000)

• Nervousness. "

 

If you think it changes your symptoms, then you should definitely taper slowly. I wouldn't skip pills after what I know about SSRI tapering but might use a scale or dissolve in liquid. 

 

What coping skills do you find helpful these days? At different times I have found epsom salt baths (e.g. Westlab bathing Salts Sleep 1kg | Boots), walks, music, distraction through gaming (usually in person), reading, writing or lighthearted TV series. Did you get access to therapy? 

OMW

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Onmyway

[Greatful]

@Kat66

 

29 minutes ago, Kat66 said:

OK, I confess I'm a bit confused. If your therapist doesn't recommend trauma therapy whilst in WD why is she seeing you? Is the therapy not just overwhelming for your CNS? Or does it genuinely help you?

My therapist is MS LMFT  I think the lmft is for License Marriage and Family Therapist.  There are therapist that specialize/train in trauma therapy, OCD therapy, sex therapy,  many other.  I think she learns about most therapy but is not trained per say.  So I guess general therapy, like a Family doctor,  not a pediatrician, heart doc, etc.  She is skilled in helping me in CBT, I can't think straight right now on how to explain it. 🥴 I think you could use the talk therapy and learn how to redirect your thought and distorted thinking.  Letting thoughts, feelings, fear, concerns out is only going to help you understand who you are and how to heal.

I bet you had some cognitive distortion thinking even before WD.  

Here are 10 common cognitive distortions: 

These are from the book "Feeling good" the new mood therapy by  David Burns MD. He teaches you how to counteract these thought.  He also has "When panic attacks"    

1-All or  Nothing Thinking

        You see things in a black or white categories.  If you performance falls short of perfection, you see yourself as a total                 failure.

2-Over Generalization 

        You see a single negative event as a never ending pattern of defeat

3-Mental Filter 

      You  pick out a single negative detail and dwell on it exclusively so that your vision  of all reality becomes darkened, like             the drop of ink that colors the entire beaker of water.

4-Disqualifuiing the Positive

       You reject positive experiences by insisting they "don't count" for some reason or other.  In this way you can maintain a             negative belief that is contradicted by your everyday experiences 

5-Jumping to Conclusions 

        You make a negative interpretation even though there are o definite facts that convincingly support conclusion.  

               a. mind reading. You arbitrary conclude that someone is reacting negatively to you, and your don't bother to check                         this out.

               b. The fortune teller error.  You anticipate that things will turn out badly, and you feel convinced that your predictions                      is already- established fact.

6- Magnification (catastrophizing) or Minimization

        You exaggerate the importance of things (such as your goof-up or someone else's achievement), or you                                       inappropriately shrink things  until they appear tiny (your own desirable qualities or the fellow's imperfections).  This is               also called the "binocular trick"

7- Emotional Reasoning

       You assume that your negative emotions necessarily reflect the way things really are: "I feel it, therefore it must  be true".

8- Should Statements

        You try to motivate yourself with should's and shouldn'ts as if you had to be whipped and punished before you could be             expected to  do anything.  "Must's" and "ought's" are also offenders.   The emotional consequence is guilt.  When you               direct should statements toward others, you feel anger, frustration and resentment.

9- Labeling and Mislabeling

        This is extreme form of overgeneralization.  instead of describing your error, you attach a negative label to yourself: " I'm          a loser"   When someone else's behavior rubs you the wrong way, you attach a negative label to him: "He's a louse".

         Mislabeling involves describing  an event with language that is highly colored and emotionally loaded.

10- Personalization

         You see yourself as the cause of some negative external event which in fact you were not primarily responsible for.

       

48 minutes ago, Kat66 said:

I don't have flashbacks as such, just 'monkey brain' body responses to certain situations which remind me of the traumas I went through, if that makes sense? 

 

Do you ever feel like you are back in the time, feel the same feeling, terror, fear, sadness or even happiness depending on the flash back.  You can  almost feel the air/smell the smells.

I have things, sounds that remind my of of things but I mean totally feel the sensation as you  felt them then? 

 

You are doing great Kat.  I'm pulling for you❤️

 

[Sunnylight]

On 1/12/2022 at 7:03 PM, Kat66 said:

Hey @Sunnylight did your feelings return for your partner?

 

You raise an important point about going through therapy when in a sensitised state. It's hard even in a non sensitised state to confront challenging issues! But we don't seek therapy when everything's ok do we, so maybe now is as good a time as any?

 

xx

Yes, they definitely returned! And now I feel that the feelings for him fluctuate with how I feel myself. So, if I feel better I feel lots of love for him, and when I am at my lowest I feel nothing, not for him but also not for other things. I feel numb. So, I know we are good it is just me how is going through some hard times.

 

Anb about the therapy, I am not an expert on this. I understand what you are saying about, not seeking for therapy when everything is ok. Be gentle with yourself, don't expect too much of yourself right now. There is nothing to be 'fixed' you are doing great as it is. Enduring this and taking it hour by hour is already a big thing!

 

Xx

[Kat66]

On 1/13/2022 at 5:58 PM, Onmyway said:

 

TESCO has small dose pills, everyone else has really large amounts.

 

 

I recommend a vacation to the tropics

 

 

If you think it changes your symptoms, then you should definitely taper slowly. I wouldn't skip pills after what I know about SSRI tapering but might use a scale or dissolve in liquid. 

 

What coping skills do you find helpful these days? At different times I have found epsom salt baths (e.g. Westlab bathing Salts Sleep 1kg | Boots), walks, music, distraction through gaming (usually in person), reading, writing or lighthearted TV series. Did you get access to therapy? 

OMW

 

Thanks OMW I'll check out the smaller dose pills, it's not realistic to cut a tiny 1000IU tablet into 7 pieces LOL. 

 

A vacation to the tropics sounds wonderful right now!

 

I'll look into the HRT issue more - I'm scared to come off it in case all kinds of menopause horrid symptoms follow though.

 

Coping skills...hmmm, well, lots of escapist TV (soaps, Friends, Downton Abbey, films), gaming, light exercise, reading, meditation music, dog walking, lemon balm tea.

 

I'm still working on the therapy issue - not sure whether it's the best idea to dig up all kinds of trauma during WD. But at the same time I need something to address my insanely distorted thoughts.

 

xx

[Kat66]

23 hours ago, Greatful said:

Do you ever feel like you are back in the time, feel the same feeling, terror, fear, sadness or even happiness depending on the flash back.  You can  almost feel the air/smell the smells.

I have things, sounds that remind my of of things but I mean totally feel the sensation as you  felt them then? 

 

You are doing great Kat.  I'm pulling for you❤️

 

Thanks @Greatful I am (and have been for decades) on first name terms with ALL those thinking patterns LOL. It's really useful to see them written down and to 'touch base' with them. Makes me realise how twisted things have become in my brain. 

 

My feelings about the trauma don't exactly extend to actually viscerally feeling like I'm back there, more the sensations of utter terror when something happens in the present day to trigger a memory of that trauma.

 

Thanks so much for your support, together we'll get through this xxx

[Kat66]

3 hours ago, Sunnylight said:

Yes, they definitely returned! And now I feel that the feelings for him fluctuate with how I feel myself. So, if I feel better I feel lots of love for him, and when I am at my lowest I feel nothing, not for him but also not for other things. I feel numb. So, I know we are good it is just me how is going through some hard times.

 

Anb about the therapy, I am not an expert on this. I understand what you are saying about, not seeking for therapy when everything is ok. Be gentle with yourself, don't expect too much of yourself right now. There is nothing to be 'fixed' you are doing great as it is. Enduring this and taking it hour by hour is already a big thing!

 

Xx

When did your feelings return? I sometimes feel a little better generally (more energy, more optimistic about things) but still no feelings for my husband, makes me worried we'll end up separating...this causes me endless worry and stress.

 

Yeah, I'm not going to rush into anything as regards therapy - it's a big decision to do it at the best of times, but during WD.....hmmm...

 

xx

[Greatful]

@Kat66  I've been thinking of you.  How is it going?

[Kat66]

18 hours ago, Greatful said:

@Kat66  I've been thinking of you.  How is it going?

Hey @Greatful I'm in a little, I think you call them, 'dirty window' at the moment. I have a little more energy, am managing to do more 'things' but I still feel numb, easily overwhelmed, and disconnected to my hubby. That is so worrying and upsetting, but what can I do. Apparently anhedonia, or emotional numbness, is one of the last symptoms to resolve, so I just have to wait and hope I guess. How are you doing? xx

[Greatful]

@Kat66  I'll take a dirty window anytime........lol  I had a few days last week of the dirty windows

Now I am do a crossover to liquid so hitting not so dirty window again. .lol

I bought the book Recovery and Renewal by Baylissa Frederick.  So inspirational to read. Not done with it yet, but I will probably have to read several times. You know how the brain works right now 🥴 Have you heard of her?  Look at her web site www.baylissa.com.  She recovered from acute withdrawal and protracted withdrawal from benzo's.  I recommend her book and checking out her web site.  Never can get enough encouragement and advice.  

 

You will get better.  We are healing every second, minute of the day.   Just the pits when your in it though lol.

 

[Kat66]

On 1/18/2022 at 5:21 PM, Greatful said:

@Kat66  I'll take a dirty window anytime........lol  I had a few days last week of the dirty windows

Now I am do a crossover to liquid so hitting not so dirty window again. .lol

I bought the book Recovery and Renewal by Baylissa Frederick.  So inspirational to read. Not done with it yet, but I will probably have to read several times. You know how the brain works right now 🥴 Have you heard of her?  Look at her web site www.baylissa.com.  She recovered from acute withdrawal and protracted withdrawal from benzo's.  I recommend her book and checking out her web site.  Never can get enough encouragement and advice.  

 

You will get better.  We are healing every second, minute of the day.   Just the pits when your in it though lol.

 

Hey @Greatful sorry for the late reply - the dirty window has gone and I'm back in hell. I've booked s psychotherapy session for Tuesday. Yes Ive heard of Baylissa, she's a wonderful resource. Right now my brain just isn't working. I'm trying to read some stuff on here about HRT and catching up with other people and none of its going in! Guess my brain's had enough for one week. I'm shattered! Hope you're OK? xxx

[ThatOneGirlStitch]

On 1/21/2022 at 12:49 PM, Kat66 said:

the dirty window has gone and I'm back in hell. I've booked s psychotherapy session for Tuesday.  

I'm sorry your window left. I am hoping your next window will be clearer after this wave.

 

Quote

my brain just isn't working. I'm trying to read some stuff on here about HRT and catching up with other people and none of its going in! Guess my brain's had enough for one week.

I understand that feeling. I have to have my partner read things for me sometimes. She'll tell me something like it says here you need more x in your diet. I'll tell her I don't really understand what that means, but if you can be my brain right now I would appreciate it.  Last night we were talking a little and in the middle of it my brain pooped out. I laid down and stopped responding, like I hit a wall.

 

I hope our brains can reboot for the better. Wishing you another window soon and the will to get through this wave.

[Kat66]

On 1/22/2022 at 7:32 PM, ThatOneGirlStitch said:

in the middle of it my brain pooped out. I laid down and stopped responding, like I hit a wall.

 

I hope our brains can reboot for the better. Wishing you another window soon and the will to get through this wave.

It's a strange feeling isn't it? Like there's nothing you can do - your brain's just....done. I found the only thing that helps is sleep and rest, and not doing anything that taxes the brain, even slightly. So watching telly works, but nothing too strenuous....something light and funny, like Friends!

 

How are you at the moment? xx

[ThatOneGirlStitch]

4 hours ago, Kat66 said:

It's a strange feeling isn't it? Like there's nothing you can do - your brain's just....done. I found the only thing that helps is sleep and rest, and not doing anything that taxes the brain, even slightly. So watching telly works, but nothing too strenuous....something light and funny, like Friends!

That is the truth. I wish we would see some improvement on this front.

[Kat66]

@ThatOneGirlStitch I think we will, it’ll just take time, which is infuriating, but we must accept it xx

[Greatful]

@Kat66

How are you doing.  How is the brain connection/focus/concentration going? I can so relate to the dark side of this journey....

Have you done another cut.  You should be proud of yourself Kat , you are still working and getting by day by day.....Okay, minute by minute some days🙄

You will heal.  You brain is healing as we speak......

Yeah I know you hear the same thing over and over.....We all have lol

Some how the days go by and time drags us into the future to the day we will be on the other side of this experience.......Okay I'll say it, this confusing and painful journey😬

 

I hope your appt. goes good and you connect with the therapist......

I hope you get a break here soon.  It will remind you that you are still normal and in there....Just waiting for your brain to figure things out❤️

[Kat66]

18 hours ago, Greatful said:

@Kat66

How are you doing.  How is the brain connection/focus/concentration going? I can so relate to the dark side of this journey....

Have you done another cut.  You should be proud of yourself Kat , you are still working and getting by day by day.....Okay, minute by minute some days🙄

You will heal.  You brain is healing as we speak......

Yeah I know you hear the same thing over and over.....We all have lol

Some how the days go by and time drags us into the future to the day we will be on the other side of this experience.......Okay I'll say it, this confusing and painful journey😬

 

I hope your appt. goes good and you connect with the therapist......

I hope you get a break here soon.  It will remind you that you are still normal and in there....Just waiting for your brain to figure things out❤️

Hey @Greatful thank for checking in! My psychotherapy appointment went well, it was the first session so nothing deep but she reckons she can help me with all my emotional baggage, all of which has been amplified by W/D, well you know how it is.

It's funny, I don't feel depressed but am still very withdrawn, shaky, and angry. This W/D thing is sooooo contradictory. I have the energy to do exercise (within reason), housework, even work, but it doesn't take much to throw me off course. Does that make sense. My brain is still very slow, but at the same time I want to read and read and read. xx

[Greatful]

@Kat66

I'd say that this is a huge improvement.  It wasn't long ago that you couldn't read or do much of anything.  What do you read?  How is the anxiety?  

This sure is a wild and unpredictable ride  lol

Does your therapist understand wd?  If not I hope she is willing to be open and learn.

 

Molly my therapist told me she is learning through me.  She even has told another client that was not reacting well to the med she started  and Molly told her to get off of it.  She is going to watch Medicating Normal.  She watched the trailer and was intrigued.   I actually pressed her a little harder our last visit.  Expressing that she is on the front lines and can help/watch out for her clients.  

 

 

 

 

[Kat66]

7 minutes ago, Greatful said:

@Kat66

I'd say that this is a huge improvement.  It wasn't long ago that you couldn't read or do much of anything.  What do you read?  How is the anxiety?  

This sure is a wild and unpredictable ride  lol

Does your therapist understand wd?  If not I hope she is willing to be open and learn.

 

Molly my therapist told me she is learning through me.  She even has told another client that was not reacting well to the med she started  and Molly told her to get off of it.  She is going to watch Medicating Normal.  She watched the trailer and was intrigued.   I actually pressed her a little harder our last visit.  Expressing that she is on the front lines and can help/watch out for her clients.  

 

 

 

 

I don't think she's an expert, no, but like you I think she's happy to listen to my experience of WD. She knows she needs to be gentle with me and is against long term use of ADs. She's interested in psychedelics and sees the potential of them. I'm hoping it'll be a fruitful therapeutic relationship. It's got off to a good start. Finding experts in WD is hard as it's still a relatively newly acknowledged experience I guess? 

 

Reading wise, I'm part way through Anatomy Of An Epidemic, which is fascinating and infuriating in equal measure! Next is Man's Search for Meaning, about the author's experiences in Nazi prison camps, then it's Psychology for Dummies....I think it's all probably a distraction from all the stuff going on in my head, but it's a step up from watching soaps I guess!

 

[Greatful]

@Kat66

You've been pretty quiet.  Things going okay😊

[Kat66]

22 hours ago, Greatful said:

@Kat66

You've been pretty quiet.  Things going okay😊

Hey @Greatful so, I've been feeling a little better and have had my 2nd psychotherapy session today. My WD symptoms have reduced quite a lot, although I still have some anger. The depression and anxiety have subsided quite considerably. I don't know whether it's a window or if that's it, I'm healed. I guess it would be naïve to assume the latter as next week it could all come crashing down! I suppose if one's feeling a little better one naturally spends less time on here? xx

[Sunnylight]

Hi @Kat66 so happy to read you are doing a bit (or a lot?) better! At least for now. Wow that sounds so good! Hope the therapy is bringing you something good. And definitely sounds really logic, when you feel a little better you have other things in life where you attention will go. Wish for you that this will last a bit longer! Xx

[ThatOneGirlStitch]

Glad you are feeling better. Window or not. Make the most of it! Have you had a window before? Are all your symptoms gone?