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Yersinia: 150 mg Effexor XR for ~16 years


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Yersinia

Hi,

 

I am so glad I found this site but I wish I found it before I quit my 150 mg Effexor XR prescription (83 days since I quit).  I had brain zaps and nausea at first.  Then really vivid dreams and a hyper sensitive sense of smell.  Now I have insomnia and bad anxiety.  Sometimes I can sleep 6-7 hours but mostly I wake up after a few hours with anxiety and dread and the realization that I'm still trapped in my WD which just makes it worse.  I'm kicking myself for not tapering more slowly - I had heard that you have to taper off ADs (which I tried to do by alternating one 75-mg pill with two 75-mg pills each day for a week or so before I quit) but now I realize how much more slowly I should have gone.  I hate my psychiatrist which is part of the reason I just quit - he was like a drug dealer with an office - 15 minute consultation every six weeks to ascertain how my mood was and then he'd write a script for some venlafaxine.  Last time, he forgot to call my prescription in and I couldn't reach him so I figured I'd try my hand at quitting.  Bad mistake.

 

I'm realizing that the anxiety that I feel now, I've felt off-and-on for a long time, since I was ~15 (I'm 48 now).   My stomach hurts all the time and I have loose stools.  I throw up a lot too.  I've started walking for 30 minutes a day (when my achy feet permit it).  I'm also trying meditating and got some Mag supplements (spray and pills - I will be careful to not ingest too much).  I'm shaky all the time and feel like my heart might pound out of my chest.  Although the rational side of me knows this will most likely diminish/end, I'm terrified that I'll be trapped in anxiety for the rest of my miserable life.  I alternate between feeling hopeless and remembering that there are meditation techniques, supplements and psychotherapy that could help.  At this moment though, I feel like I'm drowning.  

 

Thanks you so much for this site.  I feel like so many people would be lost without it.

 

 

 

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

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So far, so good. I didn’t experience a negative reaction yesterday. I felt pretty good but I’m not sure if it was due to the actual reinstatement or just the knowledge that I’d begun reinstatement. I

@Yersinia I want to share some things that REALLY helped me overcome my sleep anxiety. When I would wake in the night I always checked the clock to see how much I slept. I woke up a lot so did this of

Hi,   I am so glad I found this site but I wish I found it before I quit my 150 mg Effexor XR prescription (83 days since I quit).  I had brain zaps and nausea at first.  Then really vivid d

  • Moderator
getofflex

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a peer owned and run forum of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  I'm very sorry to hear that you are dealing with all the withdrawal symptoms that you describe from a fast taper off Effexor.  

 

3 hours ago, Yersinia said:

I'm kicking myself for not tapering more slowly

Please don't be too hard on yourself.  The vast majority of people, including doctors, have no idea how to properly taper off these drugs.  It's not your fault. 

3 hours ago, Yersinia said:

I hate my psychiatrist which is part of the reason I just quit - he was like a drug dealer with an office - 15 minute consultation every six weeks to ascertain how my mood was and then he'd write a script for some venlafaxine. 

Unfortunately, this is all too common with psychiatrists.  It's really a sad state of affairs.  Mine was similar, only he spent more time with me (about 30-40 minutes) and seems pretty empathetic, but in the end it was basically just treating the issues with drugs.  

 

3 hours ago, Yersinia said:

At this moment though, I feel like I'm drowning. 

😟  My heart goes out to you.  It sounds like you may be feeling overwhelmed and very discouraged.  Think of SA as your life saver.  There are many others here with similar stories to yours, and most are recovering, or have recovered.  The key is time and patience.  

 

Thank you for providing your drug signature.  

 

Here is some information about how these drugs actually work.  This will help you understand why you are having the withdrawal symptoms.  

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

 Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

What is Withdrawal Syndrome?

 

 

Also, as we are recovering, we suggest keeping things slow, simple, and stable. This is extremely important. 

Considerations About Stability Stop Jumping Around

 

Keep it Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

When we recover, there are times of feeling OK mixed in with times of feeling bad.  This is called windows and waves.

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 


Magnesium

 

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

Finally, going back on a small dose of your drug, which we call reinstatement, might be a good option for you.  Reinstatement is best done very carefully.  This is temporary, and after stabilizing you would then taper gradually off of this.  There is some risk involved, however, since you quit the drug fairly recently (within the last 3 months) you have a decent chance that it will help you. I will confer with the other staff, and one of us will give you a reinstatement amount.  

 

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Reduce Withdrawal Symptoms

 

I've given you quite a bit of information here.  I hope you find it helpful.  Take your time to read and digest it all.  Feel free to ask any questions, or voice any concerns.  There is a light at the end of the tunnel and if you take care of yourself, you will recover from this.  It just takes time, and is very gradual.  Hang in there.  

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 '02 - 10 mg;  Apr 2 '20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07 

Benadryl 50 mg, Ibuprofen 800 mg, or Tylenol 1000 mg

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, calcium

suppl PM: magnesium 350 mg, GABA 750 mg, Estroven, melatonin 2.5 mg

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  • getofflex changed the title to Yersinia: 150 mg Effexor XR for ~16 years
  • Administrator
Altostrata

Welcome, @Yersinia

 

Did you have the type of Effexor XR capsules filled with tiny beads? If so, you might want to try a reinstatement of 10 beads. We find a small amount often reduces withdrawal symptoms. You'd stabilize for a while, then taper off bead by bead later.

 

See 


What is withdrawal syndrome? 
 
About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms 
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Mentor
Greatful

@Yersinia  Welcome, I am so  sorry you have to go through this painful journey.  Rest assured it will get better.  High anxiety is  par for the course in W/d.  I know it feels overwhelming, but you are in good hands.  The mods here are very good at what they do.

 

There is so much information here on SA.  It will keep you busy for awhile, but you will learn a lot.

 

If I were to suggest something to get started on is mediation.  I never thought I would meditate,  that is until I went into W/D all bets are off when you feel out of control.  It has helped to slow down the thoughts and reduce anxiety.  Let me know if you are interested I'll send you a really good guided meditation.

 

I see you are already taking magnesium, good that should help with anxiety.  Click on the link for magnesium in the post from getoflex.  it will explain the best way to take it.

 

Remember you are not alone.  There are many members that are here to help you with support and encouragement.  So post as much as you want to.

 

You will heal☺️

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24894-greatful-is-this-withdrawal-or-to-many-med-changes-at-once/

1995? Prozac,  tried several Paxil, Serzone, St John's Wart back to Prozac and Trazodone ct:d Traz

 Lexapro. Tried to stop Crash in 2015  Kindled   Hospitalized, Vybrid, Seroquel, Effexor, Abilify  Pristiq, Wellbutrin 2016  ended back on 2016  Prozac and Lamictal 200mg

5/2020  through 12/2020 taper from 20mg  Prozac  down to 3mg.  Crashed  12/13/2020 Zoloft 50mg 1/29ct  1/29/2021 Seroquel 50mg ct  Trazadone 50mg 4/25  25mg 2/5/ 2021 Lamictal 150mg.  2/24  100mg   4/9  75mg   4/21 37.5  2/12/2021 Wellbutrin 75mg.  Became hypo manic 2/16 ct

2/16/2021 Seroquel 50xr  3/3 100mg  3/17  150mg  side effects ct   4/3 2021 Lexapro 5mg  4/14  7.5mg  4/30 10mg  5/10  7.5mg   5/16  5mg

 5mg Lexapro   37.5 Lamictal   25mg trazadone,   xanax  .0625mg  3x a day   Magnesium glycinate 200mg. Omega 3 , Melatonin L Theanine 

Lexapro 2021/01/09 4.90mg  05/09  4.75mg

 

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Yersinia
9 hours ago, Greatful said:

 

 

If I were to suggest something to get started on is mediation.  I never thought I would meditate,  that is until I went into W/D all bets are off when you feel out of control.  It has helped to slow down the thoughts and reduce anxiety.  Let me know if you are interested I'll send you a really good guided meditation.

 

Yes - please send me the guided meditation. Thank you!

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

Link to post
Yersinia
12 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Welcome, @Yersinia

 

Did you have the type of Effexor XR capsules filled with tiny beads? If so, you might want to try a reinstatement of 10 beads. We find a small amount often reduces withdrawal symptoms. You'd stabilize for a while, then taper off bead by bead later.

 

See 


What is withdrawal syndrome? 
 
About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms 
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

I don’t have any capsules left unfortunately.

 

thank you for the suggestion.

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

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  • Administrator
Altostrata

Strongly suggest you get a prescription for 37.5mg Effexor XR (the name brand, it is the capsule filled with tiny beads) and take 10 beads every day at the same time, to decrease withdrawal symptoms. We have many people here who have done this.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Yersinia

@Altostrata I could only get a prescription for the generic for 37.5 mg Effexor XR.  Is there anything I can do with it?  What's the weight equivalent of 10 beads of the brand name stuff? 

 

Sorry, this was the best I could do.

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

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Yersinia

@Altostrata I'm a research chemist - I have access to scales, pipettes, solvents, etc.  so I can accurately make up a solution...  Thanks!!

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

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  • Mentor
Greatful

https://youtu.be/3RNXvq3oCHA

This is Chronic Pain Meditation   Pain can be anything, anxiety, I used it once for my depression

This should be the link

Let me know if it worked

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24894-greatful-is-this-withdrawal-or-to-many-med-changes-at-once/

1995? Prozac,  tried several Paxil, Serzone, St John's Wart back to Prozac and Trazodone ct:d Traz

 Lexapro. Tried to stop Crash in 2015  Kindled   Hospitalized, Vybrid, Seroquel, Effexor, Abilify  Pristiq, Wellbutrin 2016  ended back on 2016  Prozac and Lamictal 200mg

5/2020  through 12/2020 taper from 20mg  Prozac  down to 3mg.  Crashed  12/13/2020 Zoloft 50mg 1/29ct  1/29/2021 Seroquel 50mg ct  Trazadone 50mg 4/25  25mg 2/5/ 2021 Lamictal 150mg.  2/24  100mg   4/9  75mg   4/21 37.5  2/12/2021 Wellbutrin 75mg.  Became hypo manic 2/16 ct

2/16/2021 Seroquel 50xr  3/3 100mg  3/17  150mg  side effects ct   4/3 2021 Lexapro 5mg  4/14  7.5mg  4/30 10mg  5/10  7.5mg   5/16  5mg

 5mg Lexapro   37.5 Lamictal   25mg trazadone,   xanax  .0625mg  3x a day   Magnesium glycinate 200mg. Omega 3 , Melatonin L Theanine 

Lexapro 2021/01/09 4.90mg  05/09  4.75mg

 

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Yersinia

@Greatful - the link works - thank you so much!

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

Link to post
  • Administrator
Altostrata
1 hour ago, Yersinia said:

@Altostrata I'm a research chemist - I have access to scales, pipettes, solvents, etc.  so I can accurately make up a solution...  Thanks!!

 

Is your venlafaxine XR a tablet or capsule filled with beads? The weight of the beads varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. You can work with what you have.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Yersinia

@Altostrata it’s a capsule. 

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

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Yersinia

@Altostratathis is the content of one capsule… quite a lot of variation in bead size 😬 What’s the target mass for ingestion?

 

thanks for all your help!

218EF62D-B03C-4F99-BF37-F9B608C9913A.jpeg

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

Link to post
Yersinia

@Altostrata I carefully opened and weighed the contents of 17 capsules.  The average weight of the contents of a capsule is 112 mg.   37.5 mg of the capsule material is venlafaxine (weight percent of 33.5%).  Is that reasonable?  2/3 of the material is filler?  (I guess the special time-release coating has to weigh something).

 

How many mg of Effexor should I take?  I saw in the thread below that 5mg was recommended:

 

 

But I also saw in the "About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms" that I should start very low to avoid kindling.  Should I start with 3 mg Effexor?  Should I use weight percent to calculate the total amount of capsule material to take?  Like if I want to start with 3 mg Effexor, I should actually weigh out 9 mg of capsule material?

 

Please - I'm really anxious right now.  I'm so scared that I'm going to miss my window for reinstatement.  I've already been off nearly three month.  Thanks for your help.

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

Link to post
  • Administrator
Altostrata

@Yersinia, 10 beads is an arbitrary approximation, meaning "a little". We don't worry about filler, we figure the active ingredient averages out among the beads.

 

Since you have scales available, you can be more accurate in your approximation. Since you went off 2.5 months ago, your nervous system might have re-adapted somewhat by now. Figure out what close to 3mg in beads would weigh (it would be informative for us if you could estimate the number of beads for this). Take that weight of beads every day at the same time. It will take about 4 days for the dosage change to reach steady-state. Please let us know the effects over this period.

 

Believe it or not, this tiny amount may be enough to stop withdrawal symptoms. We'll have to observe for longer to see if you might need more.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Yersinia

Thank you so much.

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

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Yersinia

I weighed out 12 doses of 8.8 mg of capsule material (should be ~3mg of Effexor) and put them in empty veg caps.  The number of beads per dose varies widely: 5, 8, 10, 7, 9, 5, 9, 8, 11, 7, 8, 8.  But you can see from the picture of the capsule material that there is a lot of variation in bead size.  Reassuringly, the the beads are larger in the doses that contain fewer of them.  

 

I'm leaving work now to take my first reinstatement dose at home.  I will report on how it goes.

 

I cannot thank you enough for your help.   

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

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  • Moderator
getofflex
Posted (edited)

It sounds like you are on the right track.  I look forward to hearing how it goes for you. 

Edited by getofflex

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 '02 - 10 mg;  Apr 2 '20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07 

Benadryl 50 mg, Ibuprofen 800 mg, or Tylenol 1000 mg

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, calcium

suppl PM: magnesium 350 mg, GABA 750 mg, Estroven, melatonin 2.5 mg

Link to post
Yersinia

So far, so good. I didn’t experience a negative reaction yesterday. I felt pretty good but I’m not sure if it was due to the actual reinstatement or just the knowledge that I’d begun reinstatement. I also had an appointment with a CBT therapist who I’m optimistic about working with. So yesterday was pretty good. Today I’m feeling lots of anxiety but occasionally I can get enough perspective on it to realize it’s a false narrative.

 

Beginning the process of reinstatement and waiting for stability reminded me of the expression from AA (I got sober in 2004) that “time takes time”.  But, as everybody on this site knows, it’s very difficult to sit with a broken brain while it heals and, in the process, tells you that the world is ending, that you’re dying, that something is terribly, terribly wrong. 
 

I am so angry at the drug companies and complicit doctors. The “chemical imbalance” theory was shown to be false decades ago. I’m embarrassed to say that I only became aware of this within the last month (I’m a biochemist - I should have known this already, FFS). Not to mention the meta-analyses of FDA trial data that show ADs have no clinical significance over placebo in treating depression. The drug companies (and the doctors that enable them) are giving us drugs that significantly remodel our CNSs but they don’t actually help depression? Then, when we want to quit, unless we taper off at glacial pace, we have to walk through literal hell?  My heart aches for the people on this site and everywhere who trusted their doctors and ended up in W/D.  
 

I want to get better so that I can play some small part in taking the drug companies down. In my mind, what they’ve done here is no different from the Sachlers and the opioid epidemic. It’s beyond disgusting that people can unleash this much pain, suffering and death just because they want to be rich. 

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

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  • Moderator
getofflex
2 hours ago, Yersinia said:

oday I’m feeling lots of anxiety but occasionally I can get enough perspective on it to realize it’s a false narrative.

It sounds like you already have some good non drug coping skills.  

 

2 hours ago, Yersinia said:

 it’s very difficult to sit with a broken brain while it heals and, in the process, tells you that the world is ending, that you’re dying, that something is terribly, terribly wrong. 
 

Yes, it most certainly is.  It requires supreme patience.  Acceptance is how I deal with that.  But since you are sober and in AA, I know you already know that.    

 

2 hours ago, Yersinia said:

I am so angry at the drug companies and complicit doctors. The “chemical imbalance” theory was shown to be false decades ago. I’m embarrassed to say that I only became aware of this within the last month (I’m a biochemist - I should have known this already, FFS). Not to mention the meta-analyses of FDA trial data that show ADs have no clinical significance over placebo in treating depression. The drug companies (and the doctors that enable them) are giving us drugs that significantly remodel our CNSs but they don’t actually help depression? Then, when we want to quit, unless we taper off at glacial pace, we have to walk through literal hell?  My heart aches for the people on this site and everywhere who trusted their doctors and ended up in W/D.  

You really get it.  I feel very much the same way.  It's all about the money for big pharma.  

 

2 hours ago, Yersinia said:

I want to get better so that I can play some small part in taking the drug companies down. In my mind, what they’ve done here is no different from the Sachlers and the opioid epidemic. It’s beyond disgusting that people can unleash this much pain, suffering and death just because they want to be rich. 

Hear hear!!!   

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 '02 - 10 mg;  Apr 2 '20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07 

Benadryl 50 mg, Ibuprofen 800 mg, or Tylenol 1000 mg

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, calcium

suppl PM: magnesium 350 mg, GABA 750 mg, Estroven, melatonin 2.5 mg

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Yersinia

@Greatful thank you for the meditation video link. Really helpful. I hope you are doing well.

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

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Yersinia

Last night was difficult - I’ve started hating to go to bed because I know I won’t sleep. Once in bed, my heart pounds out of my chest with worry. I slept about two hours and then woke up and agonized over whether my reinstatement will work or if my decision to CT has consigned me to years of WD hell. Eventually I got out of bed, took 50 mg Mg, surfed the SA website, went back to bed, couldn’t sleep, woke my husband up in a panic, got out of bed again, took 25 mg Mg and actually fell asleep on the couch for two hours.  Then I took 50 mg Mg, returned to bed and couldn’t sleep but tried to practice acceptance of my overwhelming anxiety. I tried to thank it for alerting me to something being wrong a few weeks ago (which prompted me to realize that I was in WD and find SA). 
 

Now that I’m up, I’m experiencing the nervous shakiness I’ve had for a few weeks, the racing thoughts and dread. I’m trying to take another page out of the AA playbook: “act as if”.  I want to be better, to go back to my life without being plagued by worry all the time… so I’m going to act as though everything is OK and go about my life as best I can.  I wonder about overdoing it though, which brings me to a question for the moderators/veterans: if I pretend everything is OK and do normal things, do I risk making the WD worse by stressing my system?

 

 I have another question: I’ve noticed when I try to fall asleep, I’ll have memories of people/places I haven’t thought about in a long time, sometimes accompanied by strong sorrow. Is it appropriate to look on these experiences as just my brain trying to heal so strange thoughts are coming up? I’ve been having some weird thoughts recently in general. Is it just part of the CNS healing process? 
 

Thanks.

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

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  • Moderator
getofflex
4 hours ago, Yersinia said:

if I pretend everything is OK and do normal things, do I risk making the WD worse by stressing my system?

It depends upon what normal things you are talking about.  For me, I waited until I was retired and my kids grew up to get off the Lexapro.  So I had the luxury of being able to spend a lot of days in early recovery doing very little.  We generally suggest to avoid overdoing it and try to avoid things that are physically and mentally stressful, if you can.  I realize many of us don't have this option, though.  For example, when I would do an intense workout at the gym, it would send me into a wave, so I cut back my exercise to walks around the neighborhood.  If it were me, I would slow down and take it easy, at least to a certain extent, and allow myself extra rest.  

 

4 hours ago, Yersinia said:

I’ve noticed when I try to fall asleep, I’ll have memories of people/places I haven’t thought about in a long time, sometimes accompanied by strong sorrow. Is it appropriate to look on these experiences as just my brain trying to heal so strange thoughts are coming up? I’ve been having some weird thoughts recently in general. Is it just part of the CNS healing process? 

I've had very similar experiences, only I get this in the evening several hours before bed.  I believe, at least for me, it is a combination of 2 things.   1) neuro emotion.  These are emotions that are caused by our nervous systems being out of whack from withdrawal.  2) real emotions.  My emotions were numbed by the antidepressants, and now that those are mostly gone, a lot of old emotions are resurfacing that I never worked through or dealt with directly.  

 

Neuro Emotions

 

Grief and Loss of Capacity from Drug Effects

 

I Grieve

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 '02 - 10 mg;  Apr 2 '20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07 

Benadryl 50 mg, Ibuprofen 800 mg, or Tylenol 1000 mg

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, calcium

suppl PM: magnesium 350 mg, GABA 750 mg, Estroven, melatonin 2.5 mg

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92sharks

Hi Yersinia,  This site is your best bet for support and answers. The moderators are very knowledgeable, open, and honest. I don't want to give you incorrect advice, but I will share my experience. About 15 years ago, I thought I was weaning myself from Effexor. However, my last dose/wean was from 37.5mg to zero. I had terrible w/d for over 6 months. Brain zaps, dizziness, nausea, low, low, low self esteem, pain in extremities, wanting to die when faced with another day, exhaustion, and depression. I couldn't work, couldn't function, couldn't take care of my family or myself. The voice in my head was relentless and very, very negative. I believed that suicide was the best and only way I would be free from the w/d symptoms. I thought if I waited long enough I would feel better. I was told by my psychiatrist that my depression had reoccured. I now know it was w/d syndrome. I resumed my Effexor dose, resigned I had a chemical imbalance, and would be on Effexor for the rest of my life. I pretty instantly felt better, so that also convinced me I had a "chemical imbalance". My internal negative voice disappeared immediately. There was so little on the internet the first time I came off of Effexor. Luckily, I found SA a few years ago. Fast forward to today. I started gradually weaning off Effexor again about 3 years ago from 188mg. I have been counting beads and am now down to 12mg. It is ABSOLUTELY a test in patience. It is very clear when I'm going too rapidly and I have to slow down. It is no different today than when I started. I forgot to take my Effexor once this week and I felt symptoms 24hrs later. I am dropping 1 bead every 7 days and right now that is feeling too rapid. But, I will get off of it. From experience, I strongly encourage you to get back on some Effexor and then begin very, very slowly reducing your dose following the advice and guidance from SA moderators. When I decided to try to get off of Effexor again I decided that I would just have the reduction going on in the background of my life. It's like getting out of debt....it is painfully slow, but if you want to do it, slow and steady is the way. It isn't free. There will be depression still, the same issues will be there that you went on Effexor for in the first place. But antidepressants aren't the answer in my opinion. Again, my opinion, the answer is working on the issues with help from your therapist or family or friends; facing them head on. I just want to say that there are many of us that know EXACTLY the w/d feelings (physical and emotional) that you are having and they will get better. However, from my experience only, the w/d symptoms that you are having will not just go away with time. Your brain needs the Effexor to help you function and prevent w/d, but only for now. As you taper very slowly, your brain will adjust to needing less Effexor and you will be able to get off. 

1999 began Wellbutrin, and Zoloft, then off both, tried Lexapro, then eventually Effexor XR

2009 slowly weaned self off Effexor XR  experienced 7 months of withdrawal syndrome, became suicidal

2010 went on Prozac (dose ?), then off Prozac (agitation/anxiety), resumed Effexor XR

2010-2014 titrated up to Effexor XR 150mg and Effexor 37.5mg

2014-2018 have been on this dose for 4 years~Effexor EX 150mg and Effexor 37.5mg (Total 188mg)

January 22, 2018, began decreasing dose of Effexor 37.5mg (Continuing 150mg dose unchanged)

February 19, 2018 Effexor XR 150mg + 29 balls of Effexor 37.5mg capsule (29mg?????) x 2 days

August 15, 2020 Effexor ER 60mg x 5 months

August 10, 2021 Effexor ER 10mg Experiencing vertigo since last taper (from 11mg to 10mg) 4 days ago.

August 21, 2021 Vertigo gone 🥳(lasted 8 days) Will stay at 10mg. 


 

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Yersinia

Thank you @92sharks for reaching out to me. I’m on my 3rd day of reinstatement with ~9 beads Effexor. I really want my WD symptoms to recede so I’m hoping the reinstatement works. I’m heartened by your story that you didn’t reinstate for 6 months and it still worked for you. Are there other accounts of people who are tapering off Effexor that you follow? 
 

Thanks again.

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

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  • Mentor
Greatful

@Yersinia  I am sorry you are struggling.  This can be a very difficult and painful. 

 

I was going to tell you to go to the Symptoms and Self- care forum and you will find information on the many weird and painful symptoms of w/d.  I found relief from there when I was having intense fear and didn't know what from.  Well it turns out it is common in w/d.  They have a topic where people were experiencing like you, things coming up from the past and weird stuff like that.  So in answer to your question Yes this is common.  You will be relieved and amazed at all the things that have happened to people.  OCD is another one. One is Withdrawal causing repetitive and intrusive thoughts, rumination and increased panic.

 

Sending you a big boost of strength and encouragement☺️

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24894-greatful-is-this-withdrawal-or-to-many-med-changes-at-once/

1995? Prozac,  tried several Paxil, Serzone, St John's Wart back to Prozac and Trazodone ct:d Traz

 Lexapro. Tried to stop Crash in 2015  Kindled   Hospitalized, Vybrid, Seroquel, Effexor, Abilify  Pristiq, Wellbutrin 2016  ended back on 2016  Prozac and Lamictal 200mg

5/2020  through 12/2020 taper from 20mg  Prozac  down to 3mg.  Crashed  12/13/2020 Zoloft 50mg 1/29ct  1/29/2021 Seroquel 50mg ct  Trazadone 50mg 4/25  25mg 2/5/ 2021 Lamictal 150mg.  2/24  100mg   4/9  75mg   4/21 37.5  2/12/2021 Wellbutrin 75mg.  Became hypo manic 2/16 ct

2/16/2021 Seroquel 50xr  3/3 100mg  3/17  150mg  side effects ct   4/3 2021 Lexapro 5mg  4/14  7.5mg  4/30 10mg  5/10  7.5mg   5/16  5mg

 5mg Lexapro   37.5 Lamictal   25mg trazadone,   xanax  .0625mg  3x a day   Magnesium glycinate 200mg. Omega 3 , Melatonin L Theanine 

Lexapro 2021/01/09 4.90mg  05/09  4.75mg

 

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92sharks

@YersiniaIn all honesty, I have never figured out how to search this site successfully. I'm certain it is not difficult, but I have never spent the time to figure it out exactly. So, no I don't consistently follow anyone else tapering Effexor. I read things hit & miss. And when I've posted, one or more of the moderators always respond, thus offering encouragement and advice. I try to follow their suggestions and if I find myself questioning, I will always log on and post. I also remember their advice and listen to my body. So, it isn't too hard for me to go painfully slow and see what happens. 😂 This is what has worked for me. I have noticed lately that there are a lot of could be w/d symptoms (anxiety, brief periods of emotional panic and feeling like I won't be able to control my thoughts, lots of negative thoughts, ruminating, etc). I appreciate the suggestion @Greatful made to go look at the Symptoms and Self-Care Forum. I imagine I will confirm that I need to slow down my tapering for a while.  I learn something new every time I am on the site. The people are so supportive and knowledgeable. ❤️

1999 began Wellbutrin, and Zoloft, then off both, tried Lexapro, then eventually Effexor XR

2009 slowly weaned self off Effexor XR  experienced 7 months of withdrawal syndrome, became suicidal

2010 went on Prozac (dose ?), then off Prozac (agitation/anxiety), resumed Effexor XR

2010-2014 titrated up to Effexor XR 150mg and Effexor 37.5mg

2014-2018 have been on this dose for 4 years~Effexor EX 150mg and Effexor 37.5mg (Total 188mg)

January 22, 2018, began decreasing dose of Effexor 37.5mg (Continuing 150mg dose unchanged)

February 19, 2018 Effexor XR 150mg + 29 balls of Effexor 37.5mg capsule (29mg?????) x 2 days

August 15, 2020 Effexor ER 60mg x 5 months

August 10, 2021 Effexor ER 10mg Experiencing vertigo since last taper (from 11mg to 10mg) 4 days ago.

August 21, 2021 Vertigo gone 🥳(lasted 8 days) Will stay at 10mg. 


 

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Yersinia

Yesterday, about two hours after I took my Effexor, I felt a little better. My anxiety wasn’t as prominent. I also got more sleep last night and when I woke up, my heart wasn’t pounding in my chest.  It seems too early to definitively say that reinstatement is working but I’m cautiously optimistic.  If it does work, I owe SA my life.

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

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  • Moderator
Onmyway
On 7/25/2021 at 2:10 PM, Yersinia said:

I have another question: I’ve noticed when I try to fall asleep, I’ll have memories of people/places I haven’t thought about in a long time, sometimes accompanied by strong sorrow. Is it appropriate to look on these experiences as just my brain trying to heal so strange thoughts are coming up? I’ve been having some weird thoughts recently in general. Is it just part of the CNS healing process? 

 

Welcome Yersinia, 

(I like your nickname :))

 

What you describe here is quite common and someone even gave it the name dystalgia (which also stands for something else) for bad nostalgia. I had it for a few months - every little place I visited would remind me of something that made me sad - I walked teary eyed through my niece's graduation, visiting a place I had lived in and so on). It is a neuro-emotion. It might help to read on those and on emotional spirals. These are all caused by WD and they do go away. Just observe them as an interesting phenomenon (it's easier when you are not in the middle of experiencing it). 

 

Regarding the insomnia - a lot changed for me when I realized that not having slept will be fine, helped me relax and not compound the anxiety. 

 

OMW

 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months (don't remember dates), trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax/day, then 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/2719 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!)

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

Link to post
Yersinia

@Onmyway Thanks for the reassurance.  The WD symptoms are so overwhelming sometimes 😔

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

Link to post
Yersinia

Although I slept more last night, I still feel overwhelmed by anxiety. Just a bunch of “what if’s” piling up. Im the one who pays the mortgage so I go into a panic cycle… what if I can’t work bc my WD gets so bad? My husband, my dogs and I will be homeless. Im so scared.

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

Link to post
Yersinia

I feel like increasing my Mg intake might help with my anxiety (I currently take 50mg, four times a day) but Im holding off on making this change during the first week of reinstatement. (I don’t want to mistake the benefits of increased Mg for evidence of reinstatement working, if it isn’t) But I feel so anxious right now… can I increase my Mg?

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

Link to post
Yersinia

I did 30 minutes of yoga and listened to some of Dr Claire Weekes’ Hope and Help for your Nerves and I’m feeling a bit better. If I start thinking about the future at all (e.g. what if I can’t work because of w/d? What if we lose the house? What if?) I spin out into massive anxiety. I guess I just can’t think about the future. It’s not like fretting about the future actually changes the future. One day at a time. 

2004 - prozac then wellbutrin (don't recall dosages)

2005 - 150 mg Effexor Rx (or generic equivalent)

April 28, 2021 first day without Effexor after very rapid titration off (probably equivalent to CT).

July 23, 2021 Reinstatement of ~3mg of Venlafaxine ER (~8.9mg of capsule material).

 

50 mg Chelated Magnesium, 4X a day

1000mg DHA+EPA Fish oil 2X day

 

 

Link to post
  • Moderator
getofflex
5 hours ago, Yersinia said:

I feel like increasing my Mg intake might help with my anxiety (I currently take 50mg, four times a day) but Im holding off on making this change during the first week of reinstatement. (I don’t want to mistake the benefits of increased Mg for evidence of reinstatement working, if it isn’t) But I feel so anxious right now… can I increase my Mg?

I think you would probably be OK to increase your magnesium, but I suggest you do so gradually and carefully by small amounts.  Please see

 

Magnesium

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 '02 - 10 mg;  Apr 2 '20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07 

Benadryl 50 mg, Ibuprofen 800 mg, or Tylenol 1000 mg

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, calcium

suppl PM: magnesium 350 mg, GABA 750 mg, Estroven, melatonin 2.5 mg

Link to post
wantrelief
1 hour ago, Yersinia said:

Thank you so much for writing this.  It describes how I feel when I wake up.  It's so reassuring to know others feel/felt this way.  Also, I'm going to try to follow your lead in accepting that however much sleep I get is good enough.  Since I started on this W/D journey, I've been agonizing over not getting enough sleep.  Before I reinstated, it was *awful* (2 hours if lucky) but for the last two days I've gotten a bit more.  I will try to accept that it is good enough.  Otherwise, I just pile more anxiety on top of the mountain I already have.  

Hello @Yersinia:

 

Thank you for your kind words over on Sleepan's thread.

 

I am glad I could provide some reassurance that others feel the way you do when you wake up.  It is so hard to describe that sensation but it is a distinct withdrawal feeling.  It will get better for sure.

 

I can't say I am always so accepting of how much sleep I get - it is one of those things that is easier said than done in reality :) but I try.  I am very happy to hear you are starting to get more sleep with your reinstatement....that is a very good sign of it starting to work.  

 

I think what you said is very wise - that if we don't accept the sleep we get as good enough it can just create more anxiety.

 

I am wishing you all the best on your reinstatement - I will be keeping my fingers crossed you feel better very soon!

-1/06 - 3/07 Cymbalta. Fast taper; withdrawal symptoms after 4 mos (didn't realize was WD)

-10/07: 100 mg Zoloft; 1 mg Klonopin - tapered off Klonopin
-Tried several times to slowly taper Zoloft by 10%, then 5% every 4-6 weeks; could never get below approx. 40 mg - spring 2012 experienced major WD symptoms due to stress; tried to updose but no relief, back on Klonopin 1 mg.
-Switched over 5-6 mos from Zoloft to Citalopram. Finished Zoloft 1/13; Citalopram 35 mg and 1 mg Klonopin.
-8/13: 27 mg Citalopram; 1 mg Klonopin

-11/14: 12.6 Citalopram - began to have bad withdrawal symptoms; out of desperation increased to 1.25 mg Klonopin at the beginning of December.  12/13/14 16 mg Citalopram - going to stay here to try to stabilize; stabilized on 16 mg Citalopram after 4-5 months

-7/15 - 3/16: reduced to 15 mg; ~ 2 months later w/d hit hard (probably r/t stress); 6/16 updosed to 20 mg Citalopram and trying to stabilize. Updosed to 1.5 Klonopin as well. Stabilized on 20 mg Citalopram after 4-5 months

8/17-9/17: feeling withdrawal symptoms at 20 mg Citalopram (due to stress) - slowly increased to 25 mg. No change in symptoms after 6 months (? tolerance ?)  - decided to start citalopram taper February 2018 (still on Klonopin 1.5 mg).

Supplements: fish oil; magnesium; vitamin D3; curcumin

Citalopram taper:  2/2018 - 12/2019: 25 mg - 11.03 mg I 2020: 10.89 mg - 7.9 mg

2021: 1/3/21: 7.8 mg (1.27% drop); 1/24/21: 7.7 mg (1.29%); 1/31/21: 7.6 mg (1.17%); 2/7/21: 7.5 mg (1.19%); 2/14/21: 7.4 mg (1.34%); 2/28/21: 7.3 mg (1.25%); 3/7/21: 7.2 mg (1.25%); 3/21/21: 7.1 mg (1.25%); 3/28/21: 7.0 mg (1.25%); 4/25/21 - 5/5/21 : generic clonazepam switch; 5/16/21: 6.9 mg (1.25%); 5/23/21: 6.85 mg (1.25%); 5/30/21: 6.8 mg (1.25%); 6/6/21: 6.7 mg (1.25%); 6/27/21: 6.6 mg (1.25%); 6.5 mg (1.25%); 7/11/21: 6.4 mg (1.25%); 7/18/21: 6.36 mg (1.25%); generic citalopram switch; ; 8/15/21: 6.3 mg (1.25%); 8/23/21: 6.2 mg (1.25%); 8/30/21: 6.1 mg (1.25%); 9/7/21: 6.0 mg (1.25%); 9/21/21: 5.97 mg (1.25%)

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