lillo9546: Is there a possibility of returning to the state of that "person" we knew before starting antidepressant therapy, or, by quitting the therapy, we might just be worse off than before?

July 24, 2021

After starting antidepressants (SSRIs or SNRIs) for a period of time over 6 months, 1 year or even more, if you want to stop gradually, with all the precaution of this world, little by little, Will you ever feel like before you started medication, or you will definetly lose that internal "I", "persona" that we had met and known until the time of taking antidepressants for the first time ever?

July 25, 2021

Hello, and welcome to SA. We are a peer owned and run forum of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.

On 7/24/2021 at 12:39 PM, lillo9546 said:

After starting antidepressants (SSRIs or SNRIs) for a period of time over 6 months, 1 year or even more, if you want to stop gradually, with all the precaution of this world, little by little, Will you ever feel like before you started medication, or you will definetly lose that internal "I", "persona" that we had met and known until the time of taking antidepressants for the first time ever?

I can only speak for myself personally. I'm now over 99% off my Lexapro, and altogether off Trazodone and Xanax. I definitely feel like I am getting my original self back. My husband of 35 years, who has known me for over 40 years, also says I'm now the person I was when he first met me. So, yes, I do believe that eventually we become the person we were before we started on these drugs.

Are you currently on SSRI SNRI drugs? If so, do you wish to get off of them? We will be more than happy to help you do so. If you are on them, would you mind telling us more about your drug regimen? Please give us specific information about your drug history for all drugs you are on and have been on, especially for the past 18-24 months? It would be especially helpful to have the details of your drugs in a concise list (no symptoms), only drug names, specific dates (as best you can say for example early March if you don't recall the day) and dosages of each medication decrease or increase. Please read the link below for instructions. This will allow us to give you the best guidance.

How to List Drug History in Signature

Here is some information about how these drugs actually work.

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

However, it is vitally important that in getting off these drugs, we come off very gradually and carefully to avoid a very uncomfortable withdrawal situation. Tapering is best done extremely slowly, and we taper by 10% of the current dose no more than once every 4 weeks, so that the taper becomes exponentially smaller.

Why Taper by 10% of my Dosage

The primary reason I wanted off these drugs was because I felt like I had lost my connection to the person I really was on the inside. It blunted my emotional and spiritual life to a large extent. I'm really glad I'm almost off.

Please let us know if we can help you in any other way. We will be glad to walk alongside you should you decide to come off any psych drugs.

Edited July 25, 2021 by getofflex

July 26, 2021

On 7/25/2021 at 8:52 PM, getofflex said:

Hello, and welcome to SA. We are a peer owned and run forum of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.

I can only speak for myself personally. I'm now over 99% off my Lexapro, and altogether off Trazodone and Xanax. I definitely feel like I am getting my original self back. My husband of 35 years, who has known me for over 40 years, also says I'm now the person I was when he first met me. So, yes, I do believe that eventually we become the person we were before we started on these drugs.

Are you currently on SSRI SNRI drugs? If so, do you wish to get off of them? We will be more than happy to help you do so. If you are on them, would you mind telling us more about your drug regimen? Please give us specific information about your drug history for all drugs you are on and have been on, especially for the past 18-24 months? It would be especially helpful to have the details of your drugs in a concise list (no symptoms), only drug names, specific dates (as best you can say for example early March if you don't recall the day) and dosages of each medication decrease or increase. Please read the link below for instructions. This will allow us to give you the best guidance.

How to List Drug History in Signature

Here is some information about how these drugs actually work.

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

However, it is vitally important that in getting off these drugs, we come off very gradually and carefully to avoid a very uncomfortable withdrawal situation. Tapering is best done extremely slowly, and we taper by 10% of the current dose no more than once every 4 weeks, so that the taper becomes exponentially smaller.

Why Taper by 10% of my Dosage

The primary reason I wanted off these drugs was because I felt like I had lost my connection to the person I really was on the inside. It blunted my emotional and spiritual life to a large extent. I'm really glad I'm almost off.

Please let us know if we can help you in any other way. We will be glad to walk alongside you should you decide to come off any psych drugs.

thank you very much for the information and affection you show me.

I'm not on antidepressants yet. I've met 2 different Neurologist who prescribed me 2 different therapyes:

1) Daparox (paroxetine)

From 5 to 20 Drops for 2 months.

2) Zarelis (veflaxine)

From 35 to 150 mg for 6 months.

I actually dont really know what to do... I will tell some about my backstory.

I'm a Guy of 25 y.o., who have always suffered have to stay away from home or away from loved ones, but lately, can't leave home, stay alone (I need company), or get out the "comfort zone".

The lockdown really didn't help, but I was in this situation, maybe in a better position, also some time ago. I am pretty sure I started feeling like this very early, like after 12 or 13, but it Got worse really 2 or 3 years ago.

No particular trauma, but instead when I was "away" from home, holidays, or just without my parents, I was always feeling like something would need to happen to me. And I still feel it, in the same circumstance.

Now I am calm of mind, but I have several problems that are triggered when I am influenced by particular factors, for example, the loud sound of an alarm, ambulance or loud sounds in general, bright lights, and the change between light and dark environment too fast, closing the eyes and opening them again after 2 or 3 minutes, too cold or too hot, some strong tastes and smells, and all The ones I've talked about now, like being away from home, doing something alone, taking the car and being stuck in traffic, cycling too far from home. Thoose cause panic, rigidity, like I am diying, I really dont know why.

I do have: perfect sleep, perfect low food dietary, good friends (which unfortunately I miss on going out, but still see them on the street of course), i pratice fitness every day at least 20 to 40 minutes, work 9 to 5 (office is near my house).

Regarding my health, I have gluten sensitivity, so I dont take anymore gluten food, and also Insulin resistant, so my pancreas produce too much insulin, amd because of that i dont eat any sugar, fruit apart.

My schedule was to start antidepressant in 1/2 weeks, because my thinking was like: I can live well like this, but it's like doing everyday the same thing. So i told myself: Why not try the drugs and see what will happen?

But I have many legit doubts and questions in my mind:

1) Do I need this forever, or its just a medication which can I stop and enjoy the results in the future? Or When I stop, Would I need to suffer WD, and go back again at point zero, so without any progress, but maybe getting things worse?

2) Which side effects do I take as a compromise While medication (momentary), on tapering, and after finishing medication (persistant)?

3) Will drugs make me better at resist to weaknesses, or just prone to have more drugs again to fight that difficulty in the near future again?

I dont trust any of the doctor I met

July 27, 2021

Welcome, @lillo9546

On 7/24/2021 at 10:39 AM, lillo9546 said:

After starting antidepressants (SSRIs or SNRIs) for a period of time over 6 months, 1 year or even more, if you want to stop gradually, with all the precaution of this world, little by little, Will you ever feel like before you started medication, or you will definetly lose that internal "I", "persona" that we had met and known until the time of taking antidepressants for the first time ever?

1 hour ago, lillo9546 said:

But I have many legit doubts and questions in my mind:

1) Do I need this forever, or its just a medication which can I stop and enjoy the results in the future? Or When I stop, Would I need to suffer WD, and go back again at point zero, so without any progress, but maybe getting things worse?

2) Which side effects do I take as a compromise While medication (momentary), on tapering, and after finishing medication (persistant)?

3) Will drugs make me better at resist to weaknesses, or just prone to have more drugs again to fight that difficulty in the near future again?

These are all good questions. The answer is no one knows.

It's likely if you are on a psychiatric drug for more than a month, you will need to taper off to avoid withdrawal symptoms. No one can predict if this will be easy or difficult, or leave you with long-term symptoms.

Either paroxetine or venlafaxine both can cause sexual dysfunction in about 50% of the people who take them. Paroxetine is a particularly difficult drug to go off, but venlafaxine is close to it on the list. The risk of withdrawal is also about 50%.

The neurologist is not doing you any favors. Why are you seeing a neurologist? They usually are not involved in treating symptoms such as the ones you've described, which seem more like the type a psychotherapist would help with. In my opinion, at age 25, you are far too young to start daily psychiatric drugs if you can change your life with non-drug methods.

July 27, 2021

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Welcome, @lillo9546

These are all good questions. The answer is no one knows.

It's likely if you are on a psychiatric drug for more than a month, you will need to taper off to avoid withdrawal symptoms. No one can predict if this will be easy or difficult, or leave you with long-term symptoms.

Either paroxetine or venlafaxine both can cause sexual dysfunction in about 50% of the people who take them. Paroxetine is a particularly difficult drug to go off, but venlafaxine is close to it on the list. The risk of withdrawal is also about 50%.

The neurologist is not doing you any favors. Why are you seeing a neurologist? They usually are not involved in treating symptoms such as the ones you've described, which seem more like the type a psychotherapist would help with. In my opinion, at age 25, you are far too young to start daily psychiatric drugs if you can change your life with non-drug methods.

maybe, I would like to do it, but it is really stronger than me ... I have tried in various ways, even succeeding!
But, from time to time, I found myself back to point "zero". It was not something that helped me to integrate from that moment on, the strength needed to level up, but it only helped me to pass the difficult moment, and that's it (Acupuncture). It didn't bring me the level up I needed. After a while, I came back to point "zero".

I cannot understand if there may be any correlation with any organ, for example the pancreas, which to date, is what we know that creates problems for me with excessive insulin production. Maybe there are connections with the brain that have caused this in the long run? I do not know.

One thing I would like to ask about antidepressants: After having the treatment, after having done the tapering, after having had withdrawal symptoms, after having returned to normal, Do You have had the opportunity to level up, so you feel that something in your brain has changed for the better, and You don't feel as bad as before starting the treatment, or do you go back to point "zero" again, or even worse than that?

July 27, 2021

Hello everyone! I will try to make an understandable Introduction and a list of things I do, highlighted in green color, while with the red color those which triggers me. But first, a brief introduction:

Introduction

I am a 25 year old Italian boy, and I feel like I am changed from the boy I used to be, which went to the beach with 40 degrees celsius without caring about anything; No thought about if I had to eat there or at home, no thought about if that too much sun would make me feel bad or that there was traffic on the road and that I could get stuck or If I had enough water for the day, and so much other factors, which, right now, make an influence on my current life.

At 9, I was an always active boy and you could say that, instead of being part of social groups, I was the one who created them. Then came gray times. When I ate at fast food, or sweets, or at parties or I drank sugary drinks, I always had the problem of vomiting or stomach sickness, and I really threw up! So I started to have a bit of fear when I went to eat at parties, or when I had to eat an ice cream with friends, and here we are talking about 11/12 years of age. I remember, that is, memories come to mind that fortunately are very faded, of always having a terrible fear of vomiting, also because I was not helped by my mother, who usually assisted me when I was sick and terrified me to see her scared. She could not give me peace of mind, but on the contrary, it only made the situation worse. I really think these episodes contributed to "a general fear" (mostly when/after eating or when I was out with friends/cousins/family), for most of my adolescence. I remember there was an episode which doesn't reconnect to the "vomiting thing", that while I was traveling by car, my sister was accompanying me to play football, I had thoughts like "who am I", "who am I who am I talking right now"?. This is the only thing I remember, kinda like I had a depersonalization moment? as I remember, It never happend again this strong in my life.

Here we come at 14, the very first "attack of nothing" as I call it: I woke up, and suddenly my whole head started spinning and I threw up for 2 days straight. At the hospital they did not know what had happened and after 1 day of observation I returned home, with motion sickness and easy vomiting. From this moment on I have always felt a little "different", always with a very easy "dizziness" status, especially if I played the rides, those with the force of gravity, I think I could easily faint when I were applyed to too much "G" force... I still have this issue!

At 16, However, I tried to lead a normal life and between going out with friends and the various groups I was part of, I could say that gradually I was able to "mitigate" the various evil feelings or fear I felt. So I was able to leave home alone to go out, even in the evening, to go to parties, even if I didn't eat sweets or sugary drinks, and also to be alone, in relax. Although I am attractive, according to what others tell me, I have never had a serious relationship with a girl, other than a few teenage skirmishes, and that's all! even if I took trips here around Italy, I never moved too far from my home or from my loved ones, precisely because I felt this "general fear", which in addition to a sensation, was converted into stiffness, even muscle, and confusion. But I could totally say that this is a very psicologycal thing, because I had in circumstances proving it.

So at the age of 18 I started working with uncle as a mechanic and I took this job for the 3 years to come, until He had to close his business due to financial problems. I felt like "lost" and "insecure" without a job. At 19 I started to be suspicious about my discomforts, and so, after several tests, it turns out that I am quite intolerant to gluten, and that I am insulin resistant, so I stopped eating gluten and foods that made me produce too much insulin, such as sugars. here the question arises: What if those vomiting problems that I previously had resulted from the fact which I am insulin resistant and that I ate gluten before? I still don't know because I can't go back in the past, but I am pretty sure about it!

So, on the advice of a doctor, I start a sugar/gluten free diet which make me immediately feel much much better in general terms. I also start train in the gym, even if only for 6 months, because I needed to stop due to always feeling tired and fatigued. I met an ophthalmologist because I have a strong sensitivity to lights, both natural but worse the artificial ones, and He prescribe new eyeglesses, with higher gradation and UV Protect. In the years, I don't know why, but this blue light filter make me feel more calm and very less energic.

When I was 20 I started to feel more "confused", and by that, I really mean less power of concentration or reasoning available, like I'm brain-tired. Because I am always very tired after work, I start going out with friends less for the evening, or I try to avoid parties and events. I feel good: I read, I train, I eat healthy, I sleep perfect, I go out with friends, even if only a little, and I feel calmer, less emotional, and I always start mulling over my thoughts, thinking about more and more negative things. I spontaneously become interested in drawing, and I feel really good when drawing. It is a refreshing activity for me, albeit very frustrating at the same time and the things I like most about it, it is not the money you make when you sell a work, but all the reflection and fine tuning behind the work. I begin to feel grateful for anything beautiful and I start to feel the emotions more and more deeply than ever, and I begin to see things from another perspective. It's like I had a change on how I perceive things and emotion.

At the age of 22 I start working for a fast food chain as a crew member for the next 3 years. I never thought someone like me would ever have the mental and phisical ability to do this kind of demanding job. I was always anxious at work (how not to be!), but there was also some relaxing time with colleagues. I began to go out and see my friends less and less. I enjoyed more philosophical activities, such as reading, drawing and writing but at the age of 24 I stopped drawing every day, because I've lost the interest in doing it, and I could not give myself peace, until I was able to find interest in writing. Not that it is still an effective replacement for the practice of drawing, but I find myself really satisfied and interested when I read a novel, whether it is a book or a manga, or even when I watch animation and cinema films. Where I see others getting excited or grimacing during a speech, I always feel serious and very linear in my emotions. There isn't something that really moves me that much, except particular music.

I change my job, because the fast food one took away too much energy from me, even tho I loved working with different people every day, it felt also refreshing on that side. I start working as an accountant in an office, very close to my house. With this job I feel really better from the point of view of energy, however, being a 90% "head" job, I feel much more stressed and under pressure than usual, and therefore when I get home it is as if I lack the desire to do anything, and also because of the lockdown, I found myself in the unpleasant situation of agoraphobia, that is, I can no longer leave home or go far from it, if not only to go to work.

So I first turned to a psychologist and we tried to do a therapy and a path that does not work, because when I try to go beyond my limits and force myself to leave the comfort zone of the space I know, moving away from home, I am always afraid that something will happen and I have to go back immediately. So, for the first time in my life, I decide to hear from a neurologist who prescribe me "Paroxetine": 5 drops (1 week) then 10 drops (1 week) then 20 drops (2 months). Not convinced, I decide to hear from another neurologist, and he too prescribes "Venflaxine": 37.5mg (1 week) then 70mg (1 week), then 150mg (6 months).I have not yet taken any medication to date, I am still waiting and deciding. I am 25 years old, and thinking I have to take a drug that affects my thinking and my brain makes me really strange and afraid for the future, especially for side effects like brain zaps ... In the past I have tried alternative solutions like acupuncture, hypnosis and both have worked, but they have not completely removed my "fear of something" and being away from home, or allowing me to travel away from home. Also, Anime and Manga gave me a point of recreation and hope, expecially positive ones. But I feel as if the more I go forward in time, the more I feel my "fear" getting worse. I feel it more intense than in the past.

Things I do:

- Eating Healty

- Drink Water 2L/day

- Workout 30min/day

- Sleep 8h+/day (no problems)

- Work 7h+/day

- See friends on the street

- Workout 30min/day

- Take bike or car and go to work with it

Things which triggers me to panic:

- Fast Flickering Lights and Flickering PWM Lights: I am only using "Flicker Free" devices.

- High, strong or repetitive sounds and alarms.

- Strong or Chemical smells

- Strong Flavors

- Being alone

- Stuck in the traffic

- closed doors that I cannot open to get out

- being without the phone or the ability to call

- being under the sun for x minutes

- being in a too cold or too hot place

- doing a too cold or too hot

I wanted to seek for help from you:

- Would there still be possible paths that could be taken? I ask myself: "Can I go back to being normal, or feel better, like I've never felt?"

- If I took antidepressants, and allowed my brain to "regenerate" during this time, and after that, go tapering them, Could I go back to the initial state, but in a better form, that is, not having that same fear anymore? Is this a bad idea because virtually, I do not know anything about How it feels to be under antidepressants?

- Could there be other tests that I could do, which could exclude and verify the problem, Which this "current brain state" does not depend on other organs or other factors?

July 27, 2021

You seem to have a lot of philosophical questions about how and why the drugs might be beneficial to you. As this is a site for going off psychiatric drugs, we do not usually offer reasons to take them in the first place. You might want to open a topic in the Finding Meaning forum to discuss your interests.

There is no correlation of antidepressants correcting what's wrong with any organ. In fact, if you are already pre-diabetic, antidepressants and antipsychotics may very well make your condition worse.

If you read other Introductions topics, you will see thousands of people who were told antidepressants would help them in one way or another, or believed that the drugs would help and asked their doctors for them. You can see their experiences on and off the drugs, and ask all the questions you want about whether any of them experienced the miracles you seek.

Otherwise, please let us know when you want to taper off a psychiatric drug.

July 27, 2021

23 hours ago, lillo9546 said:

I do have: perfect sleep, perfect low food dietary, good friends (which unfortunately I miss on going out, but still see them on the street of course), i pratice fitness every day at least 20 to 40 minutes, work 9 to 5 (office is near my house).

It sounds like you have a lot of good things going for you. Personally if it were me, I would try some non drug ways of coping with the panic and anxiety before going on any drugs. But it is your decision to make with your doctor. If you do go on the drugs, it can cause adverse effects for some people, and if you are on them any length of time (1 month or more), it can take many months or years to properly taper off them. Most doctors don't know about this.

Personally, for me, all the antidepressants did was cover up my problems, not help me to solve my problems. It made me less anxious and depressed, but it did nothing to solve the problem that was making me anxious and depressed. Does this make sense? It was like getting a pain killer to deal with a broken bone, without actually setting and healing the broken bone. There are many options for dealing with anxiety and depression, including psychotherapy for deep seated emotional issues. Have you tried this yet? It is important to find the right person who is a good fit for you. there is info on the internet about how to do this.

July 28, 2021

14 hours ago, getofflex said:

There are many options for dealing with anxiety and depression, including psychotherapy for deep seated emotional issues. Have you tried this yet? It is important to find the right person who is a good fit for you.

I didn't tried this method yet. The fact is, I think I have still not found the right theraphy for the right problem (which I, and doctors, still don't figure out), and I 've not found the right person to help me on this journey. I made an introduction post btw

July 28, 2021

Yes I responded to your intro post. 🙂

July 28, 2021

Lillo,

seems like you are looking to the proposed ADs as a way to upgrade your mind/life and hoping that you will not return to your previous version of distress. In my experience, you are not going to get that. I was prescribed ADs at age 22 due to anxiety related to school. Initially, the anxiety got worse for about 6 weeks - I'd have night sweats and morning terrors for about a month, panic attacks. Dr said that would get better and it did. Once those side effects resolved, it felt like things were better because the intervening 6 weeks were so horrible. The next year I was numb for the majority of the time. Not happy, but also not sad - just numb, low drive for anything. Various drugs were added to counteract these side effects and to counteract the effects of those new drugs' side effects etc. Somehow, I stopped most of them and remained on just one. In year 3 stopped the drug cold turkey (didn't know better). Had brain zaps, emotional symptoms etc. and what I now realize 4 month after PAWS (irritability, crying, anger). Went back on the drugs. Now, 18 years later, in hell for 2 years (1 of those years was ok because I was not cutting my dosage) the other one was absolute hell - non-stop nausea for 4 months, akathisia for 1 month, morning terrors, derealization, intense obsessive rumination. Mind you, my symptoms are mild compared to what some other people on this board have gone through.

I was taking this drug for anxiety. But guess what - I had multiple anxiety episodes while on the drugs. I also had the occasional sadness/depressed episodes/ruminations/obsessions - the normal range of human emotions and mental agitation, the way my peers have them.

After I started tapering the drugs I also took therapy more seriously and had to deal with some issues. I wish I had dealt with those issues instead of taking the drugs 20 years ago.

I wish, when I was your age someone had told me that what I am going through is distressing but part of the normal human experience and that it can get better with the right kind of help. I wish I had started proper therapy to deal with some long seated issues. I wish I had never touched these drugs. I wish I had faced my fears and anxieties.

We can't tell you what to do but you can look through the intros and see the suffering that is on this site. It is hard to explain morning terrors to someone who hasn't lived through it. It is hard to understand akathisia if you haven't gone through it. But look at people's signatures to see how once they get onto the merry-go-round of drug switching and trials, getting off becomes the biggest nightmare of their lives. Then you can make your own choices.

In life there are no real shortcuts; not when it comes to facing your problems head on, accepting the yucky, unpleasant, distressing experiences and tackling them head on. You can learn that lesson now or you can learn it the hard way later on like me - 18 years later. I can imagine how hard it is to have agoraphobia and how distressing Covid was. But agoraphobia is treatable with CBT and exposure therapy (which is hard work). What you are going through is tough but it is not an illness, it is a reaction to a distressing situation and time.

Below are some tips on how to cope with anxiety. There are also many many books out there. I would try to get a good therapist and solve the problem at the root rather than treating symptoms only. Drugs are not a way to upgrade your mind/life. They are messy and unpleasant and you may set yourself up for a lot of pain getting off of them.

This might help:

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

July 31, 2021

I didn't read this whole thing, it's a bit overwhelming to read with no white space.

I think antidepressants/psych drugs interfere with learning. Not sure if there are studies to back that up.

Agoraphobia is a learned/"conditioned" behavior. You can unlearn it. Much harder to unlearn it if your ability to learn is impaired due to drugs. Does your therapist do Exposure and Response Prevention therapy? That is supposed to be good for phobias. If you are having to return home immediately, your therapist may not be well trained in ERP.

Therapy/ERP is a lot of work, but if you are unlucky and are the type who has problems with the drugs, it's a lot less work and a whole lot healthier than trying to get off these blasted chemicals, which probably don't work anyway. Or, perhaps they can shut down your fear of leaving the house, but they'll take all the joy in your life along with it. You will pay another price. Just my perspective. Best of luck to you whatever you decide to do.

August 1, 2021

On 7/27/2021 at 9:07 PM, lillo9546 said:

If I took antidepressants, and allowed my brain to "regenerate" during this time, and after that, go tapering them, Could I go back to the initial state, but in a better form, that is, not having that same fear anymore? Is this a bad idea because virtually, I do not know anything about How it feels to be under antidepressants?

Antidepressants do NOT regenerate your brain. They do change your brain however! In a way you never were before. And in a way you probably do not want to be. Just look around on this support site. And you will find a lot of suffering people trying to get off these drugs. Which often takes years, with often very heavy withdrawal symptoms!

Is has never been proven that these drugs make people better. Only severe psychiatric patients in clinics may have some benefit. For most other people they just numb your feelings, give a lot of nasty side effects and are extremely difficult to stop.

You might try meditation (mindfulness would be a good one for you I guess). Acceptance and Commitment Therapy might help. Read the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. He teaches how to observe our ego. And so we can learn we are NOT our ego, but so much more. Also mindfulness helps you to connect with the Observer in you. These methods can be very powerful if you really go for it.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Go2zero

August 6, 2021

On 8/2/2021 at 1:56 AM, Go2zero said:

You might try meditation (mindfulness would be a good one for you I guess). Acceptance and Commitment Therapy might help. Read the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. He teaches how to observe our ego. And so we can learn we are NOT our ego, but so much more. Also mindfulness helps you to connect with the Observer in you. These methods can be very powerful if you really go for it.

I know what you mean because I've tried thoose and it had some positive waves. After a day or two however, I came back to bad again, you know that state when you want to just make an end to all

August 6, 2021

On 7/31/2021 at 5:05 AM, ShiningLight said:

Therapy/ERP is a lot of work, but if you are unlucky and are the type who has problems with the drugs, it's a lot less work and a whole lot healthier than trying to get off these blasted chemicals, which probably don't work anyway. Or, perhaps they can shut down your fear of leaving the house, but they'll take all the joy in your life along with it. You will pay another price. Just my perspective. Best of luck to you whatever you decide to do.

I think I am not in a position to understand just because I live in a circle

August 7, 2021

With a neurologist, I've scheduled to start this 6 months drug therapy based on a venflaxine pill/solid tablet, as follows:

- 7 days on 37.5 mg

then

- 14 days on 75mg

then

- 160 days on 150mg

then

How would you start properly tapering, minimizing WD, but most importantly, how do you split and accurately weigh the tablet??

Also, Why do we need to do thoose BIG dose jump when we start the drugs, and not for example go slowly up? Like a Reverse Tapering?

August 7, 2021

On 8/6/2021 at 9:50 AM, lillo9546 said:

I know what you mean because I've tried thoose and it had some positive waves. After a day or two however, I came back to bad again, you know that state when you want to just make an end to all

These things are not a magic trick. To have really benefit from it you should practice them every day! And if you do, you may notice that you make steps forward. Often 2 steps forward and often 1 backwards then. But if you continue and have trust you will grow and grow!

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

August 7, 2021

5 hours ago, lillo9546 said:

With a neurologist, I've scheduled to start this 6 months drug therapy based on a venflaxine pill/solid tablet, as follows:

- 7 days on 37.5 mg

then

- 14 days on 75mg

then

- 160 days on 150mg

then

How would you start properly tapering, minimizing WD, but most importantly, how do you split and accurately weigh the tablet??

Also, Why do we need to do thoose BIG dose jump when we start the drugs, and not for example go slowly up? Like a Reverse Tapering?

This is a support site for getting off Anti depressants. Not a side which advises how to start them and how to discontinue again.

Please understand that Venlafaxine is one of the most difficult AD's to taper and to stop!

Edited August 7, 2021 by Go2zero

August 7, 2021

Hello everyone.

I am 25 and since I was 12, I have always been afraid or anxious when I had to leave home for occasions such as parties, going out with friends, small trips (never done a long trip), business things, and I've always found a method to manage it... even if I was still feeling the panic, but now, thanks to the lockdown, I can no longer leave home and go beyond some territorial limits, or to stay alone, or I do panic. I have already tried psychological treatments for years - Hypnosis, Acupunture, CBT - and it has helped me, but the real problem persist...

So I consulted 2 different neurologists: w=weeks, m=months
#Neurologist 1: Paroxetine, 5 drops (1w) then 10 drops (1w) then 20 drops (2m). I think 1 drops equals to 1 mg, so it would be 5,10,20 mg.

#Neurologist 2: Venflaxine, 37.5mg (1w) then 70mg (1w), then 150mg (6m).

I think I have no choice but to try to take the drugs. I have suicidal thoughts, and high frustration. I see it as a vicious circle with no way out, I think I need help. I do know that this forum It's a community centered on getting off antidepressant, and I perfectly understand that this post may be out of reason, but I am really searching to be normal "me" in the future. Since I am not as experienced as you in this field, who have experienced the sensations on your skin, I would like to ask whether to choose the Paroxetine or Venlafaxine threatment.

- We know that "Venlafaxine 149mg" equals to "Paroxetine 34 mg", So in this case does "Paroxetine 20 mg" equals to "Venlafaxine 88mg", and means that if I go with Paroxetine, am I getting 4.4 times a lower dose?

- According to "Taper Off", Would I need 6 years to taper off only 2 months of Paroxetine 20 mg therapy, with 2.5 % decrease each week, with 2 weeks to hold?

- If I will bring the dose low to 0 mg, Will I get back all those positive things I had before and in addition a greater self-control of situations, finally without panic attacks, thanks to drug therapy, or, Will I lose it again and in this case I will feel it much stronger negative, due to the lack of drugs, even after a perfect and slow tapering?

Edited August 7, 2021 by lillo9546

August 7, 2021

11 hours ago, lillo9546 said:

With a neurologist, I've scheduled to start this 6 months drug therapy based on a venflaxine pill/solid tablet, as follows:

- 7 days on 37.5 mg

then

- 14 days on 75mg

then

- 160 days on 150mg

then

How would you start properly tapering, minimizing WD, but most importantly, how do you split and accurately weigh the tablet??

Also, Why do we need to do thoose BIG dose jump when we start the drugs, and not for example go slowly up? Like a Reverse Tapering?

Lillo,

as Go2Zero has already told you we cannot support you in getting onto these drugs. If you choose to do so after what we have advised, then it is up to you and your neurologist/psychiatrist to design your treatment. A friend of mine attempted suicide trying to come off of Venlafaxine. These drugs increase violent/suicidal behavior in young people. They increase suicidality in older people as well but not as much. You can choose what to do and bear the consequences, of course. But we can't support you in that decision.

Frontiers | Duty to Warn: Antidepressant Black Box Suicidality Warning Is Empirically Justified | Psychiatry (frontiersin.org)

August 7, 2021

Hello, I merged your new account with your existing account. Please do not register under other names or start new Introductions topics. This is your Introductions topic. Only one Introductions topic to a member.

If you register again or start another Introductions topic, you may be barred from this site.

Your questions have been answered earlier in this topic.

This is a site for going off psychiatric drugs. We do not treat depression, anxiety, panic, or neurological conditions.

If you choose to take an antidepressant, you will have to cope with the uncertainty of possibly serious adverse effects. No one can tell you how likely it is that you will experience these effects, or how severe they may be for you. No one can predict what benefit you might have from them. They are not miracle drugs, no matter what you might like to believe. We cannot tell you that they are.

They will not change your personality, only you can change your personality.

Please let us know if you would like help tapering off a psychiatric drug.

August 8, 2021

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Hello, I merged your new account with your existing account. Please do not register under other names or start new Introductions topics. This is your Introductions topic. Only one Introductions topic to a member.

If you register again or start another Introductions topic, you may be barred from this site.

Your questions have been answered earlier in this topic.

This is a site for going off psychiatric drugs. We do not treat depression, anxiety, panic, or neurological conditions.

If you choose to take an antidepressant, you will have to cope with the uncertainty of possibly serious adverse effects. No one can tell you how likely it is that you will experience these effects, or how severe they may be for you. No one can predict what benefit you might have from them. They are not miracle drugs, no matter what you might like to believe. We cannot tell you that they are.

They will not change your personality, only you can change your personality.

Please let us know if you would like help tapering off a psychiatric drug.

A 2 months therapy would mean nearly 3 years of tapering off, that's what i've learned. and tapering off would mean feel like I am right now, but with side effects which, atm, I don't have.

So which would be the benefit of staying on drugs and then make my best for tapering off for 3 years? Did the therapy that you've done, eliminated that panic thing?

I just panic when I am away from home, or alone, and I couldn't find any solution to this. This is not good...
I dont have mood disorders or bad morning stuff, or anything else. I have "higly active amigdala" how the neurologist call it, and I just panic when I am in "danger".

Since mine it's all a psicological reaction to situation, Would a placebo pills attempt be a good idea?

also

Is there any natural serotonin theraphy which would be useful?

August 8, 2021

@lillo9546 Please read this thread in its entirety:

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

There's no evidence that altering your serotonin levels will help and a lot of evidence of harm.

You may want to find a therapist (someone who can't prescribe drugs) and work on skills such as mindfulness or join a yoga class. Meditation has been proven to calm the amygdala and have a profound healing effect on the brain, mind, and spirit.

There are forums, websites, books, and YouTube tutorials for learning yoga, mindfulness, etc. if you don't wish to seek out a therapist. This is especially true since the pandemic sent many people inside and isolated. If this is the root of your anxieties, you are not alone. Everyone is struggling to adjust to this new normal.

This site is specifically for helping people taper off psychiatric drugs. You may want to join a forum for holistic health and wellness and learn about exercise, nutrition, and other ways of calming your anxieties and living a healthy, happy life.

There are no shortcuts to doing the work required to be healthy of mind and body. There are no magic pills.

August 8, 2021

22 minutes ago, Shep said:

If this is the root of your anxieties, you are not alone. Everyone is struggling to adjust to this new normal.

PostLockdown: 80%

PreLockdown: 30 to 40%

but I've always felt 100% the panic attack coming when I was far away my home, alone, or on a trip (which i don't usually do so often).

22 minutes ago, Shep said:

There are forums, websites, books, and YouTube tutorials for learning yoga, mindfulness, etc.

I tried out mindfulness, but when i go with eye closed for 10 minutes, then at the end, I open my eyes and I get a small panic.

22 minutes ago, Shep said:

Please read this thread in its entirety:

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

In the past I had to do HGH for my height, and my endocrinologist which was giving me therapy at that time, told me that I need drugs to reset my chemical imbalance. How true would that be that this things which I am feeling now may be caused by this uneducated "professional" HGH therapy i've made 15 years ago

August 8, 2021

@lillo9546 this is a site for going off psychiatric drugs. We do not discuss correcting a "chemical imbalance" for emotional problems because it is a waste of time, like debating whether the earth is flat. Antidepressants and other drugs do not correct a chemical imbalance. That is a myth.

You seem set on convincing yourself that antidepressants or whatever are a great idea for you. If you want to discuss this further, please join another site, such as PatientsLikeMe.com or depressionforums.org -- not here.

August 10, 2021

On 8/8/2021 at 6:00 AM, lillo9546 said:

I tried out mindfulness, but when i go with eye closed for 10 minutes, then at the end, I open my eyes and I get a small panic.

Mindfulness isn't about sitting down and closing your eyes - it's about learning to not attach your thoughts to your bodily sensations. One of my favorite mindfulness gurus Mooji says, "Your thoughts are like visitors and you are NOT a hotel! Don't invite them in." (One of his videos I've returned to again and again is here - Nervousness, Anxiety & Fear ~ Spoken by Mooji).

When you attach your thoughts to your bodily sensations, they can easily lead you to an emotional spiral (see Dealing With Emotional Spirals).

Dr. Claire Weekes comes highly recommended for helping people learn how to manage and cope with anxiety.

Dr. Claire Weekes - How To Recover (part 1)

She has several videos in this series.

And this is a great short video on acceptance without adding "second fear":

Dr. Claire Weekes: How to accept the physical symptoms of nervous illness video (1.5 minutes)

This is a great article on "second fear":

The Anxiety Monster Feeds on Second Fear

You can also learn to turn anxiety and nervousness into excitement, since the same physiology that creates fear is also involved in feeling excitement. It's about how you frame your narrative:

Nervous vs. Excited video (2.5 minutes)

As Altostrata wrote, if drugs are what you feel you need, check out the forums she listed. If you want to live drug free, you may want to look into alternative health type of web forums, books, and videos for information on mindfulness, yoga, nutrition, exercise, etc.

August 10, 2021

To be blunt it is pretty simple:

- If you feel like AD's help you and make you life better you are welcome to pursue them. This site is for people trying to get off AD's and do not support their use.

- We do not diagnose medical conditions. If you have a medical condition you feel needs to be diagnosed you can see a doctor. Just be aware that they may prescribe medication that is not supported by this forum.

- This site is if you are taking AD's and want to discontinue. Just know the process is not easy or quick. You may feel worse before you feel better.

- Getting off AD's will eventually result in side effects experienced from AD's going away. But any symptoms you experienced prior to taking them or have since developed outside of AD's will still be present or return.

- If you have issues you want addressed outside of AD's most find a supportive therapist/psychologist who does not promote medication, but rather techniques to teach yourself. Books, relaxation techniques, exercise, and dietary changes also are commonly used.

You need to decide what journey is best for you.

August 10, 2021

@lillo9546, if I were you, I wouldn't take ADs. Nothing in what you said indicates to me personally that the potential benefits of them may outweigh the very real risks. You are young and seem to be very self aware, use that to your advantage. Have you tried therapy? Self-help books? These resources are far more valuable than many people give them credit for.

And back to your question whether it is possible to be the same person before and after ADs, the answer is, sometimes. I previously was on zoloft for 1.5 years and quit and was completely back to my old self in a few weeks. This time I was on escitalopram for less than a year, quit in the early January and still am not close to being myself (8 months later). Some people take ADs their whole life and never have any serious problems. Others struggle for years after taking just a few pills. Which one are you? No one knows until you try. But why play that Russian roulette? If your life is not absolutely unbearable, I suggest trying other things first, before the AD.

April 8, 2023

Hi, I am Marcus, 27M, from Italy.

I'm doing my best to learn and solve problems that I have:
- SAD (Separation Anxiety Disorder): caused by an overly worried parent.
- Agoraphobia: caused by SAD.
- Autophobia: caused by Agoraphobia.
- Anything else: caused by the next phobia.

Most precisely, fear and panic when I leave home or the circle of "comfort zones" and Fear and panic when I'm left "alone", at home, or in public, i.e. without family members or friends I trust near me.

This means I have trouble to do what I'd like/dream to do:
- Travel oustide my country (also, fear of airplane)
- Learn/work and try to make a living oustide my country
- Small travel/explore withing my country, even with a car/train/plane.

Resolution attempts:
1) Cognitive path with Psychologist (not sure if it was TCC): It worked for 10%
2) Visit with 1 Neurologist: He prescribes me SSRI/SNRI antidepressant drugs. I don't take them
3) Visit with 2 Neurologist: He prescribes me SSRI antidepressants. I don't take them
4) Personal Path: (Exposure theraphy) Little by little with my bicycle, I've started to enlarge my comfort zone. but I still cannot drive a car far away. But, I came to a point where Im stuck now.

What I've noticed:
Exposure Theraphy Methods (I've done my best, but I am stuck in the circle).
- #1 I've noticed: I have fear to go from point A to point C because I know that I need to pass point B first, which I haven't done yet. I take my bike and I go to point B, then I stay for 10 minutes, but even If I try to go to point C, I can't yet. I repeat this for a week, until it gets familiar, then I can try to go to point C. It works! But now see point #2
- #2 I've noticed: I can see progress, so for example, as above, I can go from point A to point C passing trought point B, but then, If for some time like a week, I will not visit point C trought point B, I will have trouble to go from point B to C when I like to revisit it. It's like I lose the progress or just If I don't go trought "B to C" frequently, so the next time I'd like to do that route, I will feel light fear and panic. Is there a name for this?

Goal:
I need to understand how my brain works and make a trick to keep this process of exposure theraphy until it will heal by itself.
The MAIN GOAL is to keep this process, make a system, and snowball it step by step. So for example: from bike, to car, to train, to plane, etc.

Psicologyst/Neurologist and any "professional" just told me what books or government practice tell them to do. For them, I should take a drug which would help the brain "chemical inbalance".

Thanks for listening to my story!

April 9, 2023

@lillo9546,

I have moved your thread from the Symptoms and Self Care forum to your own intro thread. Your story goes here, the S&S thread is to discuss specific symptoms and see what people have done for it. Please do not start threads there unless it is for a symptom that has not yet been discussed (do a search for).

We like to keep your story in the intro thread so we can refer to it quickly when needed.

OMW

April 10, 2023

On 4/9/2023 at 3:39 AM, Onmyway said:

@lillo9546,

I have moved your thread from the Symptoms and Self Care forum to your own intro thread. Your story goes here, the S&S thread is to discuss specific symptoms and see what people have done for it. Please do not start threads there unless it is for a symptom that has not yet been discussed (do a search for).

We like to keep your story in the intro thread so we can refer to it quickly when needed.

OMW

Thanks! I've made another post because I thought that would be another topic.
Would be possible to switch the title to the newer post?

April 21, 2023

On 4/8/2023 at 10:25 AM, lillo9546 said:

Hi, I am Marcus, 27M, from Italy.

I'm doing my best to learn and solve problems that I have:
- SAD (Separation Anxiety Disorder): caused by an overly worried parent.
- Agoraphobia: caused by SAD.
- Autophobia: caused by Agoraphobia.
- Anything else: caused by the next phobia.

Most precisely, fear and panic when I leave home or the circle of "comfort zones" and Fear and panic when I'm left "alone", at home, or in public, i.e. without family members or friends I trust near me.

This means I have trouble to do what I'd like/dream to do:
- Travel oustide my country (also, fear of airplane)
- Learn/work and try to make a living oustide my country
- Small travel/explore withing my country, even with a car/train/plane.

Resolution attempts:
1) Cognitive path with Psychologist (not sure if it was TCC): It worked for 10%
2) Visit with 1 Neurologist: He prescribes me SSRI/SNRI antidepressant drugs. I don't take them
3) Visit with 2 Neurologist: He prescribes me SSRI antidepressants. I don't take them
4) Personal Path: (Exposure theraphy) Little by little with my bicycle, I've started to enlarge my comfort zone. but I still cannot drive a car far away. But, I came to a point where Im stuck now.

What I've noticed:
Exposure Theraphy Methods (I've done my best, but I am stuck in the circle).
- #1 I've noticed: I have fear to go from point A to point C because I know that I need to pass point B first, which I haven't done yet. I take my bike and I go to point B, then I stay for 10 minutes, but even If I try to go to point C, I can't yet. I repeat this for a week, until it gets familiar, then I can try to go to point C. It works! But now see point #2
- #2 I've noticed: I can see progress, so for example, as above, I can go from point A to point C passing trought point B, but then, If for some time like a week, I will not visit point C trought point B, I will have trouble to go from point B to C when I like to revisit it. It's like I lose the progress or just If I don't go trought "B to C" frequently, so the next time I'd like to do that route, I will feel light fear and panic. Is there a name for this?

Goal:
I need to understand how my brain works and make a trick to keep this process of exposure theraphy until it will heal by itself.
The MAIN GOAL is to keep this process, make a system, and snowball it step by step. So for example: from bike, to car, to train, to plane, etc.

Psicologyst/Neurologist and any "professional" just told me what books or government practice tell them to do. For them, I should take a drug which would help the brain "chemical inbalance".

Thanks for listening to my story!

Honestly I was stung by the worst agoraphobia ever just before I got on meds, I genuinley thought the meds were helping but I don't think they were doing anything, what really helped me way just doing things until they became a none issue, like you said your doing exposure therapy and that's really good.

Although try to make it less of a therapy, I would have this thing I would do where I'd think "damn it's hot, I could really go for a can of coke" , I'd then know that if I didn't walk the 10 minutes to the shop that I wasn't getting this can of coke. It sounds silly but it would be a little prize. After a while craving a can of coke became a thing that would have me just get up and go get one.

It sounds so silly but it helped alot over the years

SI xx

May 7, 2023

On 4/21/2023 at 6:28 PM, SertralineIssues29 said:

Onestamente sono stato punto dalla peggiore agorafobia di sempre prima di prendere le medicine, pensavo davvero che le medicine stessero aiutando ma non credo che stessero facendo nulla, ciò che mi ha davvero aiutato a fare le cose fino a quando non sono diventate un problema, come hai detto che stai facendo la terapia dell'esposizione e questo è davvero buono.

Anche se cerco di renderlo meno una terapia, farei questa cosa che farei dove penserei "dannazione fa caldo, potrei davvero andare a prendere una lattina di coca", allora saprei che se non lo facessi cammina per 10 minuti fino al negozio in cui non avrei preso questa lattina di coca cola. Sembra sciocco ma sarebbe un piccolo premio. Dopo un po' il desiderio di una lattina di coca divenne una cosa che mi avrebbe fatto alzare e andare a prenderne una.

Sembra così sciocco ma ha aiutato molto nel corso degli anni

SIxx

If you took drugs, in what did those helped/not helped?

lillo9546: Is there a possibility of returning to the state of that "person" we knew before starting antidepressant therapy, or, by quitting the therapy, we might just be worse off than before?

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