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Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia


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2 hours ago, Onmyway said:

 

Hi Whatishappening, 

your symptoms are created from the withdrawal from the drug. The fact that there is variation in the doses can definitely make things worse but it is not the main cause of the issue. I am not familiar with the Effexor beads situation - I think there are threads on the various drugs on this website and you can learn from the wisdom of the people here. My poison is citalopram and I am lucky that it comes in a liquid so I can dilute. There are a few principles in tapering that I have learned on this website: 

 

1) Going up on your dose does not necessarily solve withdrawal (also see ChessieCat's answer above) 

       1a) if you are going up on your dose go very slowly, by small amounts. Sometimes 1 mg or less will improve your symptoms sufficiently. I reinstated at 2.5

           and it was sufficient.  I wish I had tried 1mg but this was before I knew of SA. 

 

2) Going up and then down and then up and down again can create something called kindling - i.e. make your nervous system more sensitized

3) You need to take your drug as consistently as possible - both in terms of timing and dosage 

 

The issue with drugs like Effexor is that they have a very short half life - i.e. they get eliminated very quickly from your body. In the case of Effexor it seems to be only 4 hrs. That means that you need to dose it very frequently and very consistently if you are not taking the XR version or it may cause inter-dose withdrawal symptoms. A friend on this would not be able to skip even a day without getting physically ill - flu symptoms, nausea. I presume (but am not an expert on this) that variations can precipitate a kindling reaction. So if you go away from the XR version, you will need to be very careful to take it multiple times a day -  2-3 a day and this may need to be even more frequent if you are on lower doses. Please have a look at the Effexor thread. In this journey, I would trust SA over a doctor every single day. 

 

 

I am so sorry that you are on this drug as it seems to be one of the hardest to get off of. A friend's mom (79 yrs old) was just prescribed this because she has night sweats which were presumed to be from anxiety. She ended up at A&E with panic attacks (did not have them before). GP did not inform the woman why she was prescribing this drug, of potential side effects or withdrawal symptoms. Poor woman thought this would help with the night sweats, did not know this was even a brain drug. It did nothing did nothing positive for her symptoms in 7 days, it actually made things worse. I suspect this woman has dysautonomia as many of her symptoms seem similar to ADWD without her having taken any ADs before venlafaxine but no one is considering that diagnosis and I only think of it as an analogy to ADWD. After my advice and another friend's horror stories coming off of this, she is off of the drug now. These drugs are another form of abuse inflicted often on women, esp. elderly women. I was/am so furious. 

 

 

 

Onmyway, thank you for your time in responding and the information you provided. I appreciate that there is someone out there willing to put in the time to help a complete stranger😊

 

 yes I am very diligent regarding the time I take my medication and I never ever forget a dose. I have a pill box with the days of the week. 
 

I absolutely trust the folks in SA. If it’s one thing I’ve found during the past 4 years since my failed taper in 2016, is that doctors are f#^king clueless. I wish they would take these meds themselves so they could get a dose of their own medicine and know the dangers they invoke. 
 

I’ve only updosed .5mg since 3 days ago (from 3mg to 3.5mg). I’m being cautious. It was suggested that I go up to 5mg but I’ll cross that bridge it needed. Like you said, do the bare minimum when updosing. Wait and watch.

 

Sleep still eludes me. But trying to stay positive. I have recently added magnesium glycinate 200 mg and taurine so I’ll have to report back on that. I’m such in a hyperarousal state that it’s really hard to say that anything will work aside from just time.

Effexor XR 37.5mg (1st time 2003-2004 / 2nd time 2007-2008 / 3rd time 2010-current) Attempted to get off again in July of 2015 and did a year long taper only to reinstate by June 2016 due to failed taper. By July 2017 started to give this another try.

 

7.01.17 - 37.5mg fast forward to 3.25.18 - 26 mg  / 4.27.18 - 23.4 mg  / 5.20.18 - 21 mg  / 6.24.18 - 18.9 mg / 9.7.18 - 17 mg  / 10.13.18 - 15 mg / 11.10.18 - 13.5 mg 12.24.18 - 12 mg / 2.10.19 - 11 mg  / 3.6.19 - Updose to 13 mg and was better only for a month so decided to continue with tapering process. / 5.18.19 - 12 mg / 6.12.19 - 11 mg  / 7.7.19 - 11 mg  / 8.22.19 - 10 mg  / 10.4.19 - 9 mg   / 11.29.19 - 8.5mg / 12.16.19 - 8 mg / 1.24.20 - 7.5mg / 3.15.20 - 6.5mg / 3.29.20 - 6 mgs / 5.9.20  - 5.5 mgs / 5.23.20 - 5 mgs / 6.29.20 - 4.5 mgs / 7.10.20 - 4.25mgs / 7.24.20 - 4 mgs / 8.18.20 - 3.75mg / 9.1.20 - 3.5 mgs / 9.29.20 - 3 mgs but Horrendous insomnia suddenly appear preventing further tapering.

 

10.9.20 - Effexor Updose to 3.5mg

10.18.20 - Effexor Updose to 4 - 4.5 mg but no relief and insomnia got worse so.....

11.04.20 Effexor jump! with direct switch to Prozac 10mg.

12.4 - prozac 7.5mg 

12.20 - prozac 4mg 

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Does anyone suffer from anything like following:

 

After a night of very poor sleep or not sleeping at all, the next day I have episodes of feeling EXTREME fatigue, and my body basically says "You need to sleep NOW."  So I go to bed and try, but still can't sleep due to my hyped up nervous system. The agony from this is severe, and I end up groaning continuously and writhing on the bed. Often, my chest hurts as well.  My eyes I can barely keep open, but sleep is still impossible.  I think maybe it's so bad for me is because previously on lexapro when doing "well" for much of my life I averaged 11-12 hours of sleep a day, and the difference my body just can't handle as I'm nowhere near that.

 

For the most part, I CAN deal with the lack of sleep despite how awful it feels, but these episodes are way beyond that (they're agonizing) and last for hours each day.  The draw toward ending it all during these times is so difficult to resist because the suffering is so intense.  I know people like to say "It's just insomnia, you'll live" That doesn't comfort me at all -- I'm not afraid that I will die of this, I'm afraid that I won't! 

1997-2019 Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Effexor, Serzone, Wellbutrin, Amitryptiline, Mirtazapine, Lexapro (mostly, 10-20mg)

Jan 16-Feb 2019 Fast tapered Lexapro after spontaneous kundalini syndrome 

Feb-Jul Used various herbs to deal with severe anxiety (bacopa, gotu kola)

Sept 2019 Developed histamine intolerance and daily panic

Currently taking high DHA fish oil, magnesium.  Occasionally l-ornithine, l-lysine, l-glycine, melatonin for sleep.  Dayvigo for sleep, and l-thp or seroquel (haven't settled on dose) for sleep when in sleep deprivation crisis

 

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8 hours ago, lucidity said:

Does anyone suffer from anything like following:

 

After a night of very poor sleep or not sleeping at all, the next day I have episodes of feeling EXTREME fatigue, and my body basically says "You need to sleep NOW."  So I go to bed and try, but still can't sleep due to my hyped up nervous system. The agony from this is severe, and I end up groaning continuously and writhing on the bed. Often, my chest hurts as well.  My eyes I can barely keep open, but sleep is still impossible.  I think maybe it's so bad for me is because previously on lexapro when doing "well" for much of my life I averaged 11-12 hours of sleep a day, and the difference my body just can't handle as I'm nowhere near that.

 

For the most part, I CAN deal with the lack of sleep despite how awful it feels, but these episodes are way beyond that (they're agonizing) and last for hours each day.  The draw toward ending it all during these times is so difficult to resist because the suffering is so intense.  I know people like to say "It's just insomnia, you'll live" That doesn't comfort me at all -- I'm not afraid that I will die of this, I'm afraid that I won't! 

Lucidity, my heart goes out to you.  I, too, am getting of Lexapro, and have experienced the kind of agony you are talking about.  Lexapro is more powerful than other SSRI's, and I suspect that the WD from it is worse than from other SSRIs.  From the stories I've read, it seems people have a particularly hard time getting off of it.  It could be that you are still experiencing the effect of your fast taper.  I, too, did a fast taper, and several reinstatements, that really threw my nervous system out of whack.  However, to reassure you, I'm doing much better now than I was.  I'm currently going extremely slow on my taper.  I'm almost at the end, and I only taper 0.01 mg of liquid Lexapro at a time.  Believe it or not, I can actually feel the tapers, even at that minuscule amount.   Hang in there, it will slowly get better. 

Please do not private message me.  Only tag me for urgent questions about tapering and reinstating - thank you.  

 

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

 

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 2010 - 10 mg;  started taper August 2017, recent taper info: Apr 2 '20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07, Oct 6 - 0.06, Nov 21 0.05, Dec. 17 0.04, Jan 14 '22 0.03, Feb 19 0.02, Apr 18 0.01, May 15 0.005,  Jul 8, 0.00.  Psych Drug Free as of July 8, 2022!!  Woohoo!!!

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

magnesium in small amounts at 4 AM, before bed

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, multivitamin, zinc

suppl 8 PM: magnesium 350 mg, extended release vitamin C, melatonin 2 mg

 

Paxil 2002 - 2010, switched to Lexapro 2010 

Trazodone 50 mg. 2002 - 2019, fast tapered in 2019 

Xanax 0.5 mg as needed 2002 - 2019, up to 3x weekly 

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Getofflex:

Thanks for the kind words.  I have cycles where my sleep and anxiety improve, but crushing depression comes in.  Oh well, what can we do but keep going? 

 

Everyone else: 

I see some sleep "experts" say to make sure you go to bed and wake up at the same time every day.   Then other experts say "don't force yourself to sleep."  So which is it? Not forcing yourself to sleep sounds right to me, but the result for me is that I don't get actually sleepy and end up staying up all night. By daytime, I start to get sleepy but the sleep deprivation has built up so much anxiety/cortisol that cannot get to sleep.  So for me it seems the answer is to force myself to sleep, no matter how wrong that feels.

 

1997-2019 Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Effexor, Serzone, Wellbutrin, Amitryptiline, Mirtazapine, Lexapro (mostly, 10-20mg)

Jan 16-Feb 2019 Fast tapered Lexapro after spontaneous kundalini syndrome 

Feb-Jul Used various herbs to deal with severe anxiety (bacopa, gotu kola)

Sept 2019 Developed histamine intolerance and daily panic

Currently taking high DHA fish oil, magnesium.  Occasionally l-ornithine, l-lysine, l-glycine, melatonin for sleep.  Dayvigo for sleep, and l-thp or seroquel (haven't settled on dose) for sleep when in sleep deprivation crisis

 

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@lucidity  I am very sorry you are going through this.  It sounds like the attempts to make yourself sleep during the day are causing most of the despondency you feel.  When I was having insomnia I would also go back to bed during the day to catch up - it never worked and just stoked my anxiety.  So I would just sit up in a comfy chair (not in the bedroom), turn on the tv to something low key and have the goal be to just rest my body.  Sometimes I would doze off briefly, but that was rare.  But at least I wasn’t causing myself more grief by forcing myself to sleep, something that isn’t really under my control anyway.

 

From your signature it looks like you take a lot of supplements.  Unless you are sure they are doing something good for you, reconsider using them.  They can sometimes have a paradoxical effect.  For instance, magnesium keeps me up at night, and that was when I was a perfectly healthy person before the psych drugs.

 

It goes without saying you should be using good sleep hygiene at night, which has been covered in detail here on SA.  Again, you cannot force sleep but it is under your control to make your actions and environment conducive to it.

Started .25 mg. clonazapam Oct. 2016

Started 10 mg. Celexa Dec. 2016

Started 10 mg. amitriptyline January 2017

Also took 60 mg. Dexilant Oct. 2016 through April 2017, successfully tapered off

Stopped Celexa successfully Oct. 2017

Fast taper of amitriptyline Dec. 2017, had major WD symptoms and reinstated at 10 mg. Jan. 2018

Slow amitryptyline taper started Mar. 2019, reduced from 10 mg. to 0.93 mg. currently

Also still taking .25 mg. clonazapam daily in late evening

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@bijay Well not exactly, it's the agonizing episodes of extreme "fatigue" (not sure how I can describe that feeling, it's quite a bit more than fatigue) that are distressing me the most.  The failed attempts to correct this during the day are just frustrating. 

 

Yes, I've experimented with a large number of supplements.  I do re-evaluate them often to see if they seem to be helping, doing nothing, or harming.  Right now I'm taking most of them on an "as-needed" basis.  Until very recently, I was slowly but steadily improving.  I am gauging that by sleep, however, and that may not be entirely accurate.  It's possible (and I hope) that I am improving, just not in a straightforward manner. 

 

Magnesium is a strange one for me.  At first, it helped me sleep. Then it did nothing perceptible. Then it started causing anxiety, sleeplessness, etc. until I stopped for a while.  After a few weeks if I take it again it's back to helping me sleep again. It doesn't seem like I'm getting tolerant to it, because everything else I get tolerant to also gives me a withdrawal syndrome. It seems like it's depleting something instead, or maybe just correcting a recurring deficiency? I haven't had much luck yet figuring this out 

 

I'm well versed in sleep hygiene, but so far all of the advice has amounted to nothing perceptible; my sleep issues are likely too major to be fixed that way at this point.

1997-2019 Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Effexor, Serzone, Wellbutrin, Amitryptiline, Mirtazapine, Lexapro (mostly, 10-20mg)

Jan 16-Feb 2019 Fast tapered Lexapro after spontaneous kundalini syndrome 

Feb-Jul Used various herbs to deal with severe anxiety (bacopa, gotu kola)

Sept 2019 Developed histamine intolerance and daily panic

Currently taking high DHA fish oil, magnesium.  Occasionally l-ornithine, l-lysine, l-glycine, melatonin for sleep.  Dayvigo for sleep, and l-thp or seroquel (haven't settled on dose) for sleep when in sleep deprivation crisis

 

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@lucidity  Keep in mind that most of the time healing is not a linear process.  Sometimes it’s one step forward, two steps back.  It is good to hear that until recently you were seeing improvement, and this is likely a temporary setback.  Don’t forget to do whatever self-care you can manage whether it is meditation, walking in nature, or binging on Netflix.  Keep checking back here too.  Sending good thoughts your way ...

Started .25 mg. clonazapam Oct. 2016

Started 10 mg. Celexa Dec. 2016

Started 10 mg. amitriptyline January 2017

Also took 60 mg. Dexilant Oct. 2016 through April 2017, successfully tapered off

Stopped Celexa successfully Oct. 2017

Fast taper of amitriptyline Dec. 2017, had major WD symptoms and reinstated at 10 mg. Jan. 2018

Slow amitryptyline taper started Mar. 2019, reduced from 10 mg. to 0.93 mg. currently

Also still taking .25 mg. clonazapam daily in late evening

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I slept not a wink last night.  My CNS is exquisitely sensitive.  I had a stressful night in 3 ways, and that did it for me.  

Please do not private message me.  Only tag me for urgent questions about tapering and reinstating - thank you.  

 

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

 

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 2010 - 10 mg;  started taper August 2017, recent taper info: Apr 2 '20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07, Oct 6 - 0.06, Nov 21 0.05, Dec. 17 0.04, Jan 14 '22 0.03, Feb 19 0.02, Apr 18 0.01, May 15 0.005,  Jul 8, 0.00.  Psych Drug Free as of July 8, 2022!!  Woohoo!!!

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

magnesium in small amounts at 4 AM, before bed

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, multivitamin, zinc

suppl 8 PM: magnesium 350 mg, extended release vitamin C, melatonin 2 mg

 

Paxil 2002 - 2010, switched to Lexapro 2010 

Trazodone 50 mg. 2002 - 2019, fast tapered in 2019 

Xanax 0.5 mg as needed 2002 - 2019, up to 3x weekly 

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@getofflex that's an awful feeling, so sorry!

 

I've been having early morning awakenings which is also miserable, but I think this is due to work stress.

Now: 100 mg Zoloft am, 50 mg Trazodone.  Daily drug burden decreased from 2050 in 2018 mg to 150 mg 🐢🐢

Zoloft: 1/24/23 increased to 100 mg after suicide attempt 9/17/22 cut 6 mg, 8/14/22 cut 6.5 mg, 5/7/22 cut 12.5 mg 3/20/22 cut 12.5 mg 10/26/21 cut 6 mg 10/17/21 cut 5 mg, 9/17/21 Cut 3 mg,  9/13/21 cut 4 mg, 8/29/21 Cut 2 mg 8/8/21 Cut 3 mg  7/30/21 Zoloft: Converted 25 mg to liquid. Also take 100 mg pill & 25 mg pill=150 mg total
🌞 Feb 28, 2021 0 mg Gapapentin 2021 Gaba each dose 4x/day: Feb 27 7 mg (one dose only), Feb 10, 7 mg, Jan 14 10 mg 2020 Current taper schedule from Aug 30-present: drop 8 mg every 2-3 weeks. Aug 20 31 mg, Aug 18, 33 mg, July 29, 35 mg, July 23 38 mg, July 22 40 mg Jun 24 42 mg, Jun 15 44 mg, Jun 9 48 mg, May 22 50 mg, May 14 54 mg, May 7 56 mg, Apr 16 58 mg, Mar 28 60 mg, Mar 18 62 mg. Feb 26 64 mg. Feb 19, 66 mg. Jan 23, 70 mg. 2019 Dec 19, 72 mg. Nov 14 ,76 mg. Aug 8, 80 mg. Aug 6, 85 mg. Jul 26, 90 mg. Jul 11, 95 mg.

Jul 16 trazodone from 100 to 50 mg.

Jun 17-July 10 Slowly changed gab fr pill to liquid at same dose 100 mg 4x/d.

Apr 24 Stopped klon!!! 🌞 Apr 4  Decreased gaba to 400 mg (100 mg 4x/day)-Apr 4, 2019   0.25 klon March 11  Klonopin .5 mg twice daily, varied dose til Apr 15. Started Klon fast taper 25%, short use

Mar 16, 450 mg gaba 3x/day cut 600 mg--not exact!--updose after learning w/d

Feb 20, 2019 1800 mg gabapentin; MD taper; off 3 days=mvt disorder & autonomic instability. July 2018 temazepam 15 mg 1-2; prn several x/wk til Jan/Feb 2019 when cold turkey, flu illness for months

July 2018 started gabapentin 100 3x/day; titrated up to 1800 mg (600 3x/day)

Buspar, I forget how much, 2 pills a day Jan 2017-July 2018 cold turkey. On Zoloft since maybe 2004? After trying many.

*I speak from my experience. Nothing I say is medical advice. I'm not a doctor.

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As a long-time veteran of the sleep wars in withdrawal (worst case was being up for over 72 hours straight), there are a handful of things you can do that may help some, but the reality is that it takes a lot of time for many of us to see improvement in the entire sleep architecture.  Panicking and throwing a lot of "stuff" at the wall to see if it will help usually has a paradoxical effect and is not recommended.  From a supplement standpoint, some people see benefit with magnesium and VERY SMALL doses of melatonin, taken at sunset to help reset the circadian cycle.  Most other things like OTC meds (think benadryl, Advil PM, etc.) work for a day or two and then turn on you.  Sleep meds can help in the worst cases but should be taken very, very carefully.  There is a good thread on careful use of the Z drugs which we do not regularly recommend but some have used in very small amounts when things were absolutely awful or when sleep was so essential the risks were outweighed by the rewards.  

 

Things that help some are the standard advice for sleep hygiene:

  • blackout shades
  • warm shower before bed
  • a sleep ritual including gentle yoga and/or meditation
  • consistent sleep and wake times
  • cold room
  • staying off devices for at least 2 hours prior to bedtime and using bluelight blocking glasses in the evening
  • herbal teas with things like chamomile in the early evening (but not so close to bedtime that the need to urinate is an issue)
  • no caffeine after 2PM
  • no exercise after dinner time
  • finish last meal at least 3-4 hours before bedtime

But, alas, even with all of those being followed religiously, for some of us it is a matter of time.  I went through a stage where I was thrilled if I got more than 3 hours a night -- and this was for many months.  I can now report that most nights I sleep at least 5 hours, probably average 6, and have many nights that are 7+.  For the vast majority of people the sleep situation does get better.  Of course, many of us have this coincide with middle to later age so it's hard to know how much of the sleep disturbance is "purely" withdrawal and how much is part of the aging process.  It would be a mistake to constantly say, "but I used to be able to sleep..." because you aren't who you used to be on many levels.

 

The most important thing in my mind is that when you can't sleep you try to rest and not stress too much about the lack of sleep.  It's the anxiety that lack of sleep creates that does the most damage.  Recognize that even in withdrawal when the body REALLY needs to sleep it will make sure that it does.  And the other thing I would suggest is to find some kind of stillness, mindfulness or meditation practice (not necessarily for the middle of the night but during the day). Studies have shown that the rest the brain gets in deep meditation is more restful and restorative to the brain than sleep is so you can supplement brain health through such a practice helping you ward off any adverse brain changes due to sleep deficits.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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1 hour ago, apace41 said:

As a long-time veteran of the sleep wars in withdrawal (worst case was being up for over 72 hours straight), there are a handful of things you can do that may help some, but the reality is that it takes a lot of time for many of us to see improvement in the entire sleep architecture.  Panicking and throwing a lot of "stuff" at the wall to see if it will help usually has a paradoxical effect and is not recommended.  From a supplement standpoint, some people see benefit with magnesium and VERY SMALL doses of melatonin, taken at sunset to help reset the circadian cycle.  Most other things like OTC meds (think benadryl, Advil PM, etc.) work for a day or two and then turn on you.  Sleep meds can help in the worst cases but should be taken very, very carefully.  There is a good thread on careful use of the Z drugs which we do not regularly recommend but some have used in very small amounts when things were absolutely awful or when sleep was so essential the risks were outweighed by the rewards.  

 

Things that help some are the standard advice for sleep hygiene:

  • blackout shades
  • warm shower before bed
  • a sleep ritual including gentle yoga and/or meditation
  • consistent sleep and wake times
  • cold room
  • staying off devices for at least 2 hours prior to bedtime and using bluelight blocking glasses in the evening
  • herbal teas with things like chamomile in the early evening (but not so close to bedtime that the need to urinate is an issue)
  • no caffeine after 2PM
  • no exercise after dinner time
  • finish last meal at least 3-4 hours before bedtime

But, alas, even with all of those being followed religiously, for some of us it is a matter of time.  I went through a stage where I was thrilled if I got more than 3 hours a night -- and this was for many months.  I can now report that most nights I sleep at least 5 hours, probably average 6, and have many nights that are 7+.  For the vast majority of people the sleep situation does get better.  Of course, many of us have this coincide with middle to later age so it's hard to know how much of the sleep disturbance is "purely" withdrawal and how much is part of the aging process.  It would be a mistake to constantly say, "but I used to be able to sleep..." because you aren't who you used to be on many levels.

 

The most important thing in my mind is that when you can't sleep you try to rest and not stress too much about the lack of sleep.  It's the anxiety that lack of sleep creates that does the most damage.  Recognize that even in withdrawal when the body REALLY needs to sleep it will make sure that it does.  And the other thing I would suggest is to find some kind of stillness, mindfulness or meditation practice (not necessarily for the middle of the night but during the day). Studies have shown that the rest the brain gets in deep meditation is more restful and restorative to the brain than sleep is so you can supplement brain health through such a practice helping you ward off any adverse brain changes due to sleep deficits.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Wow thank you for your best advice and tips. I'm going through bouts of insomnia now in my lower dose (with no theraputic value but for the mere fact that I'm tapering slowly as suggested on the site). I'm suddenly having ear worms and snippets of phrases pop into my head which doesn't sound like my own voice and it is usually when trying to fall asleep and rest. This has been preventing sleep even with my good sleep hygiene. Any advice on how to get through those symptoms?

 

I feel like the lack of sleep is triggering them definitely. Lack of sleep is the first problem fueling the later symptom and now the later symptom is preventing the first....ughhhh

Effexor XR 37.5mg (1st time 2003-2004 / 2nd time 2007-2008 / 3rd time 2010-current) Attempted to get off again in July of 2015 and did a year long taper only to reinstate by June 2016 due to failed taper. By July 2017 started to give this another try.

 

7.01.17 - 37.5mg fast forward to 3.25.18 - 26 mg  / 4.27.18 - 23.4 mg  / 5.20.18 - 21 mg  / 6.24.18 - 18.9 mg / 9.7.18 - 17 mg  / 10.13.18 - 15 mg / 11.10.18 - 13.5 mg 12.24.18 - 12 mg / 2.10.19 - 11 mg  / 3.6.19 - Updose to 13 mg and was better only for a month so decided to continue with tapering process. / 5.18.19 - 12 mg / 6.12.19 - 11 mg  / 7.7.19 - 11 mg  / 8.22.19 - 10 mg  / 10.4.19 - 9 mg   / 11.29.19 - 8.5mg / 12.16.19 - 8 mg / 1.24.20 - 7.5mg / 3.15.20 - 6.5mg / 3.29.20 - 6 mgs / 5.9.20  - 5.5 mgs / 5.23.20 - 5 mgs / 6.29.20 - 4.5 mgs / 7.10.20 - 4.25mgs / 7.24.20 - 4 mgs / 8.18.20 - 3.75mg / 9.1.20 - 3.5 mgs / 9.29.20 - 3 mgs but Horrendous insomnia suddenly appear preventing further tapering.

 

10.9.20 - Effexor Updose to 3.5mg

10.18.20 - Effexor Updose to 4 - 4.5 mg but no relief and insomnia got worse so.....

11.04.20 Effexor jump! with direct switch to Prozac 10mg.

12.4 - prozac 7.5mg 

12.20 - prozac 4mg 

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5 hours ago, whatshappening said:

I'm suddenly having ear worms and snippets of phrases pop into my head which doesn't sound like my own voice and it is usually when trying to fall asleep and rest. This has been preventing sleep even with my good sleep hygiene. Any advice on how to get through those symptoms?

 

Other than trying some white noise I can only say that with time and reduction in stress on the body it will in all likelihood go away.

 

Try not to obsess about it because, as we all know, the obsession makes it more noticeable when you are focused on a symptom like this.

 

Good luck with this.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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2 minutes ago, apace41 said:

Try not to obsess about it because, as we all know, the obsession makes it more noticeable when you are focused on a symptom like this.

 

Acceptance

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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On 10/16/2020 at 9:21 AM, ShiningLight said:

@getofflex that's an awful feeling, so sorry!

 

I've been having early morning awakenings which is also miserable, but I think this is due to work stress.

Thankfully I actually slept almost 8 hours last night, so feel 100% better today.  This AD WD really is a roller coaster ride.  I hope eventually it settles down. I'm close to the end - I'm at 0.15 mg liquid Lexapro, but I'm taking it extremely slowly, as I have a lot of stress in my life.  I have an extremely stressed husband and other issues besides.  

Please do not private message me.  Only tag me for urgent questions about tapering and reinstating - thank you.  

 

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

 

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 2010 - 10 mg;  started taper August 2017, recent taper info: Apr 2 '20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07, Oct 6 - 0.06, Nov 21 0.05, Dec. 17 0.04, Jan 14 '22 0.03, Feb 19 0.02, Apr 18 0.01, May 15 0.005,  Jul 8, 0.00.  Psych Drug Free as of July 8, 2022!!  Woohoo!!!

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

magnesium in small amounts at 4 AM, before bed

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, multivitamin, zinc

suppl 8 PM: magnesium 350 mg, extended release vitamin C, melatonin 2 mg

 

Paxil 2002 - 2010, switched to Lexapro 2010 

Trazodone 50 mg. 2002 - 2019, fast tapered in 2019 

Xanax 0.5 mg as needed 2002 - 2019, up to 3x weekly 

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How long can one go without sleep?

 

How long was your latest no sleep or less than 1 hr sleep binge gone?

 

What do you do when you lay in bed and nothing happens? Get up? Stay still hope and pray?

Effexor XR 37.5mg (1st time 2003-2004 / 2nd time 2007-2008 / 3rd time 2010-current) Attempted to get off again in July of 2015 and did a year long taper only to reinstate by June 2016 due to failed taper. By July 2017 started to give this another try.

 

7.01.17 - 37.5mg fast forward to 3.25.18 - 26 mg  / 4.27.18 - 23.4 mg  / 5.20.18 - 21 mg  / 6.24.18 - 18.9 mg / 9.7.18 - 17 mg  / 10.13.18 - 15 mg / 11.10.18 - 13.5 mg 12.24.18 - 12 mg / 2.10.19 - 11 mg  / 3.6.19 - Updose to 13 mg and was better only for a month so decided to continue with tapering process. / 5.18.19 - 12 mg / 6.12.19 - 11 mg  / 7.7.19 - 11 mg  / 8.22.19 - 10 mg  / 10.4.19 - 9 mg   / 11.29.19 - 8.5mg / 12.16.19 - 8 mg / 1.24.20 - 7.5mg / 3.15.20 - 6.5mg / 3.29.20 - 6 mgs / 5.9.20  - 5.5 mgs / 5.23.20 - 5 mgs / 6.29.20 - 4.5 mgs / 7.10.20 - 4.25mgs / 7.24.20 - 4 mgs / 8.18.20 - 3.75mg / 9.1.20 - 3.5 mgs / 9.29.20 - 3 mgs but Horrendous insomnia suddenly appear preventing further tapering.

 

10.9.20 - Effexor Updose to 3.5mg

10.18.20 - Effexor Updose to 4 - 4.5 mg but no relief and insomnia got worse so.....

11.04.20 Effexor jump! with direct switch to Prozac 10mg.

12.4 - prozac 7.5mg 

12.20 - prozac 4mg 

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4 hours ago, whatshappening said:

How long can one go without sleep?

 

How long was your latest no sleep or less than 1 hr sleep binge gone?

 

What do you do when you lay in bed and nothing happens? Get up? Stay still hope and pray?

@whatshappening

My WD insomnia is/was always about walking up early and in extreme anxiety so the following tips are not from my own experience but may be worth trying. Unfortunately I don't have the original sources but you can look then up somehow in Google?

 

1. Practice gratitude - now we've all heard this is good for you yada yada, but this woman was saying how anxiety/insomnia are caused by a perception of scarcity so when you're doing this you're telling your brain it's ok to relax

 

2. Tapping in a rhythm on your thighs or arms (hug yourself) for a couple of minutes - sort of like the clock tap-tap while over time slowing the rhythm. Focus attention on rhythm - this came from a TEDx talk

 

3. Get a blue light blocker on your phone - I love "Blue Light Filter 

- night mode". I like the colour temperature of 500k 

 

Hope these help. Also, this does get better with time.

 

OMW

 

 

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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On 10/15/2020 at 9:10 AM, lucidity said:

it seems the answer is to force myself to sleep, no matter how wrong that feels.

 

the harder I try to sleep, the less it works. I don't see how you can make yourself sleep, you can only allow it - it's the opposite of forcing. 

so I don't understand what you mean. 

 

On 10/22/2020 at 8:56 AM, whatshappening said:

What do you do when you lay in bed and nothing happens? Get up? Stay still hope and pray?

 

the hardest and most important thing I learned about insomnia is when you don't go to sleep fairly quickly (10- 15 minutes) you are supposed to get out of bed and do something nonstimulating, and not go back to bed until you feel sleepy.

 

this is most difficult when it's cold, I find, and I want to stay in my warm bed. but lying there "trying" to sleep is practicing the opposite of what you want, which is your brain associating being in bed with GOING to sleep, not with lying there thinking/praying/trying, etc. 

 

at least, those are my thoughts on the subject this morning! 

 

Bless all those with insomnia, it really is hard. 🥰

Currently taking Ramapril (blood pressure) 5 mg twice a day

Omeprazole 10 mg AM and 20 mg PM  (the taper has gone nowhere after the first cut)

Famotidine   once a day (and I still needs tums sometimes)

magnesium 200 mg at night

as of yesterday 2 fish oil capsules "EPA-DHA 1000"

 

off Lexapro as of 5/2018  - last dose had been 5 mg every other day for a couple years

 

highest dose had been 20 mg at which point I was diagnosed with Bipolar II, which went away when I cut the lexapro down to 15 mg. 

 

I spent years on Paxil before Lexapro (can't remember dose), briefly on Effexor and Abilify and others I have forgotten. in fact, when I was diagnoses with BPII I was put on all kinds of things which made me feel so bad I stopped them cold turkey within maybe 3 or 4 weeks, thank goodness. since then I've known these pills were terrible and I weaned down the Lexapro with zero help or support over I'm not sure how many years. 

 

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7 hours ago, JackieDecides said:

 

the harder I try to sleep, the less it works. I don't see how you can make yourself sleep, you can only allow it - it's the opposite of forcing. 

so I don't understand what you mean. 

 

What I mean is, I will go lay down in bed at my usual bed time and wait to get sleepy.  If I keep staying up waiting to become sleepy, it won't happen.  The only time I get actually sleepy is the middle of the day, and I'm unable to sleep then 

 

7 hours ago, JackieDecides said:

 

the hardest and most important thing I learned about insomnia is when you don't go to sleep fairly quickly (10- 15 minutes) you are supposed to get out of bed and do something nonstimulating, and not go back to bed until you feel sleepy.

 

This doesn't work for me either -- I haven't found anything that's "nonstimulating" for me.  Practicing this method, I'll end up staying up all night 

1997-2019 Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Effexor, Serzone, Wellbutrin, Amitryptiline, Mirtazapine, Lexapro (mostly, 10-20mg)

Jan 16-Feb 2019 Fast tapered Lexapro after spontaneous kundalini syndrome 

Feb-Jul Used various herbs to deal with severe anxiety (bacopa, gotu kola)

Sept 2019 Developed histamine intolerance and daily panic

Currently taking high DHA fish oil, magnesium.  Occasionally l-ornithine, l-lysine, l-glycine, melatonin for sleep.  Dayvigo for sleep, and l-thp or seroquel (haven't settled on dose) for sleep when in sleep deprivation crisis

 

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Jumping in to offer my favorite breathing technique to help facilitate sleep. Since withdrawing in 2016, I'm trying to find as many tools as possible to help people. I got certified as an XPT Coach in 2018, and much of the modalities focus around things like ice baths and breathwork. Here's my favorite for sleep:

 

Grab an unopened, big bag of rice. 

Lie on on your back and put the bag of rice on your belly. The tactile effect of the rice on your belly can be quite comforting and also help with exhaling.  

Inhale through your nose, and exhale while humming. Focus on making that hum as long and low register as possible (like the reverberation is in your lower throat/chest, as opposed to your nose/head.)

Try and go for 100 breath cycles (1 breath cycle is a full inhale and exhale.) 

 

Hopefully you nod off before you hit 100. And if you turn over...no matter. That bag of rice is sealed up. :)

 

Effexor XR 37.5mg and Wellbutrin XL 150mg from age 15-30 (2001-2016). Hell withdrawal. Drug free (and happy) since 2016.

 

I am the founder Happiness Is A Skill, a weekly newsletter dedicated to helping people heal from depression by learning the skill of happiness. Join hundreds of others and subscribe here: http://learnhappy.brookesiem.com/

 

I wrote this for the The Washington Post: I spent half my life on antidepressants. Today, I'm off the medication and I feel all right.

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  • 4 weeks later...

hello anyone out their looking for a cheap way to make your bedroom black is to use aluminum foil, just sticky tape it on, cheaper than buying blackout curtains and blinds, better than the eye masks and easily gotten rid of if no longer needed...buy it just from a supermarket near the clingwrap isle, you need no more than one roll of it...hope that helps

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to Oct 2017 stopped cold turkey

Only on Zyprexa from now on :   10mg solid form 1998 to Oct 2017

7.5mg solid form  Oct 2017 to Oct 2019 5mg solid form  Oct 2019 to Apr 2020

3.75mg solid form Apr 2020 to May 2020 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to Feb 2021 2.5mg solid 3/4 and 1/4 liquid w/ 5mls water 6th Feb 2021 to 2nd Apr 2021 2.5mg 1/2 solid and 1/2 liquid w/10mls water 3rd Apr to 26th Jun 2021

 2.5mg dissolved in 25mls of water from 27th Jun 2021 to 22nd Oct 2021 2.5mg 1/2 solid, 1/2 dissolved in 10mls of water from 23rd Oct 21 to 7th Feb 2022 water titrating from 7th Feb 2022 to 13 Aug 2022:  2.2425mg

 

 

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Look like a drug house!  Well I suppose in some ways it is, especially with our crushing and weighing and measuring liquids.

 

It would probably be a good idea to get the stronger version of it because the cheap version tears very easily.

 

Edited by ChessieCat

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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lol, but it does allow me to keep my cream coloured curtains...

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to Oct 2017 stopped cold turkey

Only on Zyprexa from now on :   10mg solid form 1998 to Oct 2017

7.5mg solid form  Oct 2017 to Oct 2019 5mg solid form  Oct 2019 to Apr 2020

3.75mg solid form Apr 2020 to May 2020 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to Feb 2021 2.5mg solid 3/4 and 1/4 liquid w/ 5mls water 6th Feb 2021 to 2nd Apr 2021 2.5mg 1/2 solid and 1/2 liquid w/10mls water 3rd Apr to 26th Jun 2021

 2.5mg dissolved in 25mls of water from 27th Jun 2021 to 22nd Oct 2021 2.5mg 1/2 solid, 1/2 dissolved in 10mls of water from 23rd Oct 21 to 7th Feb 2022 water titrating from 7th Feb 2022 to 13 Aug 2022:  2.2425mg

 

 

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This is an extremely long thread, so forgive me if someone already posted about this.  Insomnia has been the most bothersome symptom for me during WD.  I came to realize that I sleep better on ordinary days when I get 3 modestly sized balanced healthy meals per day.  On Christmas of this year, I ate a lot of sweets in the middle of the day, and slept very badly that night.  I've always had some issues with hypoglycemia, even though I'm not diabetic, so I decided to research it.  Sure enough, I came across this article that recommends having a high carb snack before bed to keep our blood sugar steady.  Apparently, low blood sugar while asleep can trigger the production of adrenaline and cortisol, which wakes us up.  

 

https://www.mentalhelp.net/blogs/hypoglycemia-and-sleep-quality/

Please do not private message me.  Only tag me for urgent questions about tapering and reinstating - thank you.  

 

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

 

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 2010 - 10 mg;  started taper August 2017, recent taper info: Apr 2 '20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07, Oct 6 - 0.06, Nov 21 0.05, Dec. 17 0.04, Jan 14 '22 0.03, Feb 19 0.02, Apr 18 0.01, May 15 0.005,  Jul 8, 0.00.  Psych Drug Free as of July 8, 2022!!  Woohoo!!!

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

magnesium in small amounts at 4 AM, before bed

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, multivitamin, zinc

suppl 8 PM: magnesium 350 mg, extended release vitamin C, melatonin 2 mg

 

Paxil 2002 - 2010, switched to Lexapro 2010 

Trazodone 50 mg. 2002 - 2019, fast tapered in 2019 

Xanax 0.5 mg as needed 2002 - 2019, up to 3x weekly 

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11 hours ago, getofflex said:

This is an extremely long thread, so forgive me if someone already posted about this.  Insomnia has been the most bothersome symptom for me during WD.  I came to realize that I sleep better on ordinary days when I get 3 modestly sized balanced healthy meals per day.  On Christmas of this year, I ate a lot of sweets in the middle of the day, and slept very badly that night.  I've always had some issues with hypoglycemia, even though I'm not diabetic, so I decided to research it.  Sure enough, I came across this article that recommends having a high carb snack before bed to keep our blood sugar steady.  Apparently, low blood sugar while asleep can trigger the production of adrenaline and cortisol, which wakes us up.  

 

https://www.mentalhelp.net/blogs/hypoglycemia-and-sleep-quality/

A recent large scale study concluded that eating unhealthy is directly correlated to bad sleep, although pasta and sweets makes us sleepy - the sleep quality is worse and shorter. 

This is due to infact partly to the blood sugar:

When you eat sugar or simple carbs your blood sugar rise, this makes your body make insulin to control that and return you to baseline, the sugar is blocking your suppression of grehlin the hunger hormone which makes you hungry shortly after even tho you just ate, this not only makes you fat but also cause a vicious cycle of blood and insulin rise which, had been shown a direct link to various chronic diseases. 

So infact sugar and simple carbs dose in fact makes you sleepy but - the sleep is more broken and less quality.

Because the sleepiness you feel after eating simple carbs is your blood sugar dropping fast after rising fast, same as you get energy from the blood spike, there are other reasons why sugar makes your sleep worse in the northwestern study, and a recent Israeli one, but it's probably partly because of the sudden rise and fall of blood sugar which creates a domino effect of inflammation and other bad biomarkers, which affect melatonin and sleep architecture.

Compared to a low carb high fat diet*

From studies and my own experience high fat low sugar and simple carbs - makes me more stable, less hunger, less sugar craving, better sleep (when I do sleep) and more stable mood.

This isn't surprising it's simple biology 

The natural world has many "brakes and checks" when it comes to food -

Fruits are covered with fiber to slow down the glycemic factor and prevents bloodspike, blood drops and insulin rise.

Fat in a natural diet such as butter for example is a natural grehlin suppressor,and prevents cravings. And tend to make you more full for longer quicker. 

Traditional sourdough bread contains the grain's vitamins,  and contains biotics that breakdown the toxic ingredients in the grain especially gluten. 

And of course fiber

When you take the sugar out of sugar cane - that is packed naturally with plenty of fiber that mitigates the sugar spike and slow digestion- it's the same as taking cocaine out of coca leaves:

Coca leaves aren't harmful but if you chemically process it to make it cocaine- the body has no tools to deal with the overflow.

Food isn't supposed to make you crash on the couch, if you ever tried to eat a large plate of steaks only you might have noticed that you don't feel so exhausted as eating pasta, because meat and fat are easier to digest comparable to modern pasta.

This is only true when it comes to modern food 

200 years ago white bread wasn't a thing, 

White bread is so processed (for racial reasons, and costs) that it makes the body responsed in the same way as eating candy,

Because the bread is stripped from the nutrient kernel, and it isn't fermented naturally, so the gluten and other toxins are still present, also white bread is white (because "Black is inferior" racial trope) and because the only part that is left is the carbohydrates, simple carbs, that are too easy to digest which makes you: rise in blood sugar, rise in insulin and drop in blood sugar - so fast like candy.

Studies have shown that this insulin cycle is very bad for us and its linked to heart disease, stroke, Alzheimer's, weight gain and practicality all modern diseases. 

and that lack the fibers to slow down the sugar spike.

This is a wide topic 

The YouTube channel what I've learned has a quick explanation 

 

 

 

 

 

 

weston a price basically showed this in principle in his book: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration,[7]

comparing+brothers.jpg

And another case study can be the immigrants to the USA that came from undeveloped countries in the 20th century,  and also the jewsih 'olim' to Israel that mostly came from third world countries-

Especially the beta Israel and yemenite jews that showed excellent health in the first and second generations but extream degeneration in the third. 

Processed food typically lacks what our body needs to function properly- whether it's fiber and fermentation to neutralize toxins and lower glycemic rate, or vitamins and minerals for important body processes. 

Also its important to clarify that when a low carb diet is menitod in a n scientific study is usually refers to low:

Bread

Pasta

Cookies

Cake etc

Not all carbohydrates are created equal:

A cabbage is a carbohydrate 

But it's complex carb, full of fiber and vitamins minerals and low in sugar.

Cake is a carbohydrate 

But is simple carb

High in sugar

Low in good fat

Low in fiber and no vitamins and minerals. 

So it's important to focus on what you're eating 

Not the simple terms.

The same as a steak is full of nutrients and vitamins but has more calories then cereal, calories makes sense in a lab, but the human body process food different, and the calorie myth had been debunked.

The most simple advice is just stick to a traditional diet, any.

Any diet that contains no process food, and the American diet recommendation,  

It that simple.

It's more important to focus on what youeat rather then the individual ingredients. 

 

 

 

 

CIPRALEX 10MG(M) TAB (Escitalopram): 29/01/2014-08/05/2016
VIEPAX 37.5MG TAB (Venlafaxine): 08/05/2016-26/06/2016
PRIZMA TAB (Fluoxetine Hydrochloride): 26/06/2016-18/08/2016
ELATROL 25MG TAB (Amitriptyline Hydrochloride): 18/08/2016-05/01/2017
WELLBUTRIN XR 150MG (M) TAB (Bupropion-Wellbutrin): 05/01/2017-16/01/2017
WELLBUTRIN XR 300MG (M) TAB (Bupropion-Wellbutrin): 16/01/2017-05/2018
SERTRALINE TEVA 50MG TAB (Sertraline): 29/05/2017-
SERENADA 50 MG TAB (Sertraline): 03/07/2017-16/07/2018
ARIPLY 5MG<><>(28) TAB (Aripiprazole): 17/06/2018-24/06/2018
BRINTELLIX (M) 10MG TAB 28 (Vortioxetine): 24/06/2018-16/07/2018
CLONEX 0.5 MG TAB (Clonazepam): 29/05/2017-16/07/2018 when needed not constant

May 2018 cold turkey: SERENADA 50 MG TAB, WELLBUTRIN XR 300MG TAB, SERTRALINE TEVA 100 MG TAB. June 2018 - partial reinstatement: ARIPLY 5 MG TAB, BRINTELLIX 10 MG TAB, SERENADA 50 MG TAB. July 16 2018 - cold turkey again. October 4 2018 - reinstatement: SERTRALINE TEVA ~ 0-25 MG TAB Overall: 29/01/14 - 16/07/18 + 27 days >>>> 4 years, 6 months, 1 week, 6 days, 8 hours, 40 minutes. 

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Also, here's a broad examination of the literature on the connection between sleep and diet:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5015038/

CIPRALEX 10MG(M) TAB (Escitalopram): 29/01/2014-08/05/2016
VIEPAX 37.5MG TAB (Venlafaxine): 08/05/2016-26/06/2016
PRIZMA TAB (Fluoxetine Hydrochloride): 26/06/2016-18/08/2016
ELATROL 25MG TAB (Amitriptyline Hydrochloride): 18/08/2016-05/01/2017
WELLBUTRIN XR 150MG (M) TAB (Bupropion-Wellbutrin): 05/01/2017-16/01/2017
WELLBUTRIN XR 300MG (M) TAB (Bupropion-Wellbutrin): 16/01/2017-05/2018
SERTRALINE TEVA 50MG TAB (Sertraline): 29/05/2017-
SERENADA 50 MG TAB (Sertraline): 03/07/2017-16/07/2018
ARIPLY 5MG<><>(28) TAB (Aripiprazole): 17/06/2018-24/06/2018
BRINTELLIX (M) 10MG TAB 28 (Vortioxetine): 24/06/2018-16/07/2018
CLONEX 0.5 MG TAB (Clonazepam): 29/05/2017-16/07/2018 when needed not constant

May 2018 cold turkey: SERENADA 50 MG TAB, WELLBUTRIN XR 300MG TAB, SERTRALINE TEVA 100 MG TAB. June 2018 - partial reinstatement: ARIPLY 5 MG TAB, BRINTELLIX 10 MG TAB, SERENADA 50 MG TAB. July 16 2018 - cold turkey again. October 4 2018 - reinstatement: SERTRALINE TEVA ~ 0-25 MG TAB Overall: 29/01/14 - 16/07/18 + 27 days >>>> 4 years, 6 months, 1 week, 6 days, 8 hours, 40 minutes. 

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  • 6 months later...

Hi has anyone else stopped an antidepressant and have experienced being jolted awake every time you dozed off by panic/anxiety? This is keeping me up all hours of the night and causing terrible insomnia. I’ve tried melatonin and sleepy tea… I’m getting so helpless. 

First ever psych drugs started June 1st 2021 at 24 years old 
 

-June 1st-June 7th= Prozac 20mg/Klonopin 0.5mg as needed 

-June 7th-June 14th= Prozac 10mg

-June 14th- stopped Prozac cold Turkey due to adverse reactions

July 11th- Ativan 0.5mg as needed instead of klonopin. 
July 31st-last benzo ever. 
Aug 1st-hospitalized for 5 days

Aug 1st- Trileptal as mood stabilizer 300MG twice per day//Aug 3rd- Trileptal 600MG twice per day//Aug 14th started tapering down off Trileptal due to terrible side effects

Oct 27th- Trileptal 225mg AM and 450mg PM//Nov 7th- Trileptal 150mg AM and 450mg PM//Hydroxyzine 10mg as needed

Trazadone 100mg as needed for sleep

 

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Yes, a very common occurrence. Gets better over time. Some people find weighted blankets helpful for just leg jerks. There are multiple threads on sleep that you may want to explore.  Hypnic / hypnagogic jerks when falling asleep - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

 

A sleep hypnosis app on Spotify helped me in the very beginning. Some people have found specific music helpful. There are good suggestions in the various sleep forums. 

 

From one of the forums:  

"This is some of Alto's story, the explanation for the arousal is in it:

 

"Reacting with "fight or flight" to the least stimulation, the dysregulated alerting system causes inappropriate production of the "fight or flight" hormones norepinephrine, noradrenaline, and cortisol. Spurts of elevated cortisol cause many symptoms, from muscle stiffness and pain to waves of anxiety, panic, and despair. CNS instability causes symptoms my doctor calls "autonomic dumping." Excessive glutamatergic activity and inappropriately raised cortisol at night causes the awful withdrawal insomnia.

 

Sleep disorders are very, very common in withdrawal syndrome.

 

The cortisol level may be elevated enough to show up in conventional testing, but since it is not related to adrenal or pituitary tumor, medicine doesn't know what to do with that information.

In my case, because of damage from withdrawal, my alerting setpoint has been set too low -- hyper-vigilance. My doctor calls this a meta-homeostasis.

 

The brain wants to keep us alert to respond to (non-existent) threats, spontaneously sends out waves of anxiety, and wakes us up when we become too inattentive. Tragically, the alerting response is triggered by the relaxation of sleep. This is not a circadian rhythm disorder. It is entirely iatrogenic.

To re-establish the brain's natural ability to sleep, the glutamatergic system has to be gradually tamed. Too strong an intervention, even deep sleep, will cause the meta-homeostasis to increase glutamatergic activity. The paradoxical nature of the condition is particularly hard to understand."

 

 

Edited by Onmyway
added info

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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@Laurennnbb Yes! And it feels horrible. I remember it well.  For me I would jolt awake at 2AM and 4AM, or thereabout, with what felt like a panic burst. Cortisol is not a friend during withdrawal.  It’s been several years but I believe magnesium helped.  If only oxytocin were nose sprays available - Oxytocin being a cortisol buffering hormone.  
 

It was a relief when they began to subside… and they will. Our body’s (our brain) seek homeostasis, so eventually it will learn what it needs to do to counter those surges. 

1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg (with a few stops and starts)

Fall 2012: Returned to 40mg after discontinuing and horrid withdrawal 

Fall 2013: 40mg Fluoxetine, added 150mg Wellbutrin to treat fatigue 

Winter 2014: Attempting to taper both (too fast)

April 2014: 9mg Fluoxetine + 37.5 Wellbutrin 

Summer 2014: 8 mg Fluoxetine + 0 Wellbutrin (way too fast a drop)

Late summer/Early Fall 2014: Debilitating Withdrawal symptoms 

Fall 2014 - Wellbutrin successfully kicked to the curb but…

Oct- Dec 2014: Panicked reinstatement of Fluoxetine ->30mg - held for 5yrs

Jan 2021: taper to 20mg Fluoxetine  then tapering by 1mg every 2-3 months

Fall 2022 - held at 10mg->December 2022: 9mg->Feb 2023: 8mg ->March 2023: brassmonkey slide begins: 7.8mg -> 7.6 -> 7.4->2 week hold (April)->7.2->7mg->6.8->2 week hold->6.6-> 1-month hold ->(June)-6.5->4-week hold-> (July)-6.4 (discontinued brassmonkey slide and slowed taper)-> (Aug)-6.2->(Sept)-6.0->(Oct)-5.9->(Nov)-5.8->(Dec)-5.7->wave!->(Jan)-5.8->(Feb)-6mg and holding.

 

My 2014 withdrawal experience: https://rxisk.org/antidepressant-withdrawal-a-prozac-story/

 

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  • Shep changed the title to Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia
  • 4 months later...
On 6/15/2011 at 7:47 PM, Altostrata said:

From our friend Gianna Kali's blog Beyond Meds https://bipolarblast.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/recipe-for-a-good-nights-sleep/

 

Recipe for a good nights sleep

 

5 cups Epsom Salts

 

1 cup Baking Soda

 

Poor both ingredients into a large tub and fill with water as warm as you can tolerate comfortably.

 

Soak 10 to 20 minutes.

 

Go to bed and pass out. Sleep delightfully deeply for 7 to 9 hours.

 

No kidding. This works for me like nothing else has. Epsom salt baths are widely talked about in withdrawal groups and circles as well as alternative medicine sites. The thing is no one ever really says how much to use. This is a whole lot of Epsom salts.

 

We found sources of bulk salts and the baking soda both. It can be pretty darn cheap.

 

This knocks me out. Now it may be because I’ve never tolerated much magnesium supplementation and most of us withdrawing from psych drugs need mag really bad. Not everyone’s gut can handle supplementation with magnesium though.

 

When magnesium is taken in through the skin it completely bypasses the gut and so there is no gastro discomfort.

 

....

So give this a shot. I’m utterly shocked at the difference it’s made.

 

It also gets rid of my body pain. I have really bad pain that seems to be similar to those who are diagnosed with fibromyalgia. And in point of fact this bath is also recommended in fibro circles. I have no idea what my pain is caused by but I’m assuming it’s simply the withdrawals and hope it will eventually pass.

 

The bath makes the pain remit long enough for me to fall asleep.

....


Can you use it as a foot bath if you don't have a bath tub?

Zoloft, November 2019.  I worked up to 50 mg and stayed there until 1 year later. I tapered for 3 months, which should consider to be cold turkey.
Tapering schedule:
Month 1: 37.5 mg

Month 2: 25 mg

Month 3: 12.5 mg

Month 4(Half the month): 6.75 mg
Month 4(Other half): 0 mg December 9, 2020

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  • Moderator Emeritus
18 minutes ago, curiousnootropics said:


Can you use it as a foot bath if you don't have a bath tub?

 

Yes you can use a bucket or foot bath.

 

See:

 

magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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  • 3 weeks later...

HELP please!

So I missed one dose of my Zoloft on 12/11/21.  It started me on a bad cycle of cortisol rushes that made me stay awake all night and day with anxiety and panic. It cleared up after a week. 

 

I stabilized for a week so I lowered my dose again, which at the persuasion of others and my earnestness to get odd this stuff-I increased the taper to 4% which means I’m now at 19 mg Zoloft and went to this dosage amount on 12/28/21.

it’s been a week and I’m having the cortisol rushes and now tachycardia that kicks in whenever I get close to sleep.  It’s been 3 days of no sleep and this appears to be day 4. I took less than .5 mg of melatonin last night, it made me tired but my body would do the whole panic thing if I got close to falling asleep.  I tried the .5 mg of melatonin again tonight and then 50mg hydroxyzine per my dr.  I’m super sleepy, but once again my body won’t let me sleep.


 I have read the cortisol rushes topics and couldn’t find anything helpful.  Am I out of anything I can do? How long can I go without sleep and with my body doing this?

I also have COVID, it’s been around 5 days.  It’s relatively mild thank you God. Is my brain freaking out?? I don’t understand how this can be okay to not sleep when I’m sick.  I don’t know what to do and I just want to fall apart right because I’m so tired and my chest feels like it is going to explode as soon as I get to the sleep point.  
 

please help me if you have any advice.  

1992-1995 Prozac+klonopin, 11 y/o

1996 - 1997 Celexa and lithium

1998-1999 Paxil; 2000 -2008 Prozac

2006-2007 Gabapentin, CT’d (for a herniated disc injury) still took prozac

2008-2010 Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Klonopin

2008 to present - Zoloft

Started tapering from 200 mg Sertraline/Zoloft in 2014.  Stayed at 25 mg for 2.5-3 years, went back up to 37.5 mg due to the pandemic anxiety in March/April 2020

Started slow taper from 37.5mg in Nov 2020.  2022: 5/9 17.4 mg.  6/06 17 mg. 7/06 16.7 mg.  7/20 16.3. 8/15 15.7. 8/24 15.4.  9/23 15.1. 11/16 13.3. 12/14 12.8. 2023: 4/18 10.3. 5/23 9.8. 7/11 9.2 10/17 7.2. 12/05 6.5. 2024: 01/24 5.5.

Supplements: Mag glycinate, Omega 3, Multi Mins, Lithium orotate, D3, K2, Niacinamide, C, desiccated liver, glycine, soy lecithin, B12, B6, B9, evening primrose oil, probiotics, biotrophic plus.

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  • 3 months later...
  • Moderator

This article on the importance of darkness while asleep just came out on NPR. Reinforces the idea that darkening a room may help not only with the withdrawal insomnia but our body's physiology as well. 

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/04/01/1089997121/light-disrupts-sleep

 

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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Just want to drop by and let you know what worked for me.  I lost my ability to sleep when withdrawal syndrome hit.  Ended up taking ativan for a bit, then hyrdroxyzine which I slowly had to wean down.  This wasn't the way to go.

 

What worked was when I started taking 400mg of magnesium glycinate, 1mg of melatonin and 200mg of l-theanine at bedtime, along with a bedtime routine, steady go to bed time and wake time, ocean sounds and background fan.  I was also taking 200mg of l-theanine 2-3 times during the day.  Within a month my ability to sleep returned.  Sleep gradually got better from there.

 

I have no idea if this will help you or not, as our systems are all very different, but I wanted to share.

 

Take care,

Crochet

2012-present - Escitalopram currently 2.55 mg

Supplements:  Daytime- Green Lipped Mussel 1200mg, Omega-3s 1710mg, Wheat Germ Oil 770mg, Multi-Min 2 tablets, Liposomal Glutathione 4 pumps, Probiotic 1 capsule, Beyond Balance herbal tinctures for lyme and gut healing (including one only taken during menstruation); Nighttime - L-theanine 200mg, melatonin 1mg, magnesium glycinate 400mg.

History:

2012-2017- Escitalopram 10mg

2017-2020 - Escitalopram 5mg

07/2019-11/2019 - Valium 10mg, every 2-3 days, then stopped

11/2020 - Stopped Escitalopram 5mg abruptly (crashed January 2021)

1/2021-12/2021 - Escitalopram Reinstated 2.5mg to 5 to 10 to 7.5 and then started slow taper

1/2021-2/2021 - Ativan .5mg - Took 13.5 pills over the course of 22 days and stopped

2/2021-9/2021  Hydroxyzine - 50-100mg tapering down to .8mg, then cross-tapered to Claritin and stopped

9/2021-9/2022 - Claritin 5 mg (tapered off)

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On 10/25/2020 at 7:56 AM, lucidity said:

 

What I mean is, I will go lay down in bed at my usual bed time and wait to get sleepy.  If I keep staying up waiting to become sleepy, it won't happen.  The only time I get actually sleepy is the middle of the day, and I'm unable to sleep then 

 

 

This doesn't work for me either -- I haven't found anything that's "nonstimulating" for me.  Practicing this method, I'll end up staying up all night 

@lucidity, how long did you deal with this? Did it resolve? This is where I am at, with 70 hours not sleeping, 9 hours after a sleep pill, then 41 awake and 4 after a sleep pill. The days are exhausting with barely keeping my eyes open and if i try and lay down it is cortisol rushes and the nights I am calm and awake and not sleepy. 

2013-2016 Setraline, Desvenfalaxine, Lexapro & Fluoxetine. CTd. 

Aug 2016 RI- Lex 40mg, Zyban 150mg. 

Feb 2017 - Lex 20mg, 150mg Zyban. 

July 2017 10mg Lex Zyban 150mg. 

2020-2021 CT Zyban. Lex taper to 5mg 1xday, then every othr day, then 1-2x a week. 

Early 2022- Lexapro 2.5mg 1-2 a week. 

17/Mar Crash & CT

RI Lex 0.25mg 16 Apr. | 0.35 23rd Apr. | 0.5 1 May. |0.75 17 May

Temazepam 5mg 17|4, 10mg 19|4, 10mg 20|4

Valacyclovir 31|05,1|06

Other: Melatonin 1mg at night. Occasional single Panadol or Ibuprofen. 1 decaf 25|05

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On 4/20/2022 at 1:50 AM, TentacleFinn said:

@lucidity, how long did you deal with this? Did it resolve? This is where I am at, with 70 hours not sleeping, 9 hours after a sleep pill, then 41 awake and 4 after a sleep pill. The days are exhausting with barely keeping my eyes open and if i try and lay down it is cortisol rushes and the nights I am calm and awake and not sleepy. 

It hasn't resolved, but I've had something like this for two decades before PAWS so that's not much of a surprise.

 

I am now feeling somewhat more normal in a different way, as in I'm groggy when I wake up in the morning, since I started fermented wheat germ extract (spermidine). It both lowers cortisol and is known to have positive effects on the circadian rhythm

1997-2019 Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Effexor, Serzone, Wellbutrin, Amitryptiline, Mirtazapine, Lexapro (mostly, 10-20mg)

Jan 16-Feb 2019 Fast tapered Lexapro after spontaneous kundalini syndrome 

Feb-Jul Used various herbs to deal with severe anxiety (bacopa, gotu kola)

Sept 2019 Developed histamine intolerance and daily panic

Currently taking high DHA fish oil, magnesium.  Occasionally l-ornithine, l-lysine, l-glycine, melatonin for sleep.  Dayvigo for sleep, and l-thp or seroquel (haven't settled on dose) for sleep when in sleep deprivation crisis

 

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  • 1 month later...

How do I increase the duration of sleep? I am on Clonazepam and Zolpidem, which helps with the sleep onset, but, I can't maintain sleep, I keep waking up and total sleep time is 4 to 5 hours. This was before I started any tapering, so I guess, my tolerance has built up, but even increasing the dose doesn't help.

Before 2020:

On and off various different antidepressants, antipsychotics, benzodiazepines.

2020: Sertraline, Lithium, Clonazepam
2021 May: Tried to taper, doctor confused withdrawal with relapse, all drugs were reinstated.

2021: Lamotrigine was added for mood instability, Zolpidem for sleep, Risperidone for Treatment-resistant OCD

2022 (Currently): Sertraline(200mg), Lithium(400mg reduced from 800mg; Rebound Anxiety, Otherwise Okay), Risperidone(0.5mg reduced from 1mg), Lamotrigine(100mg), Clonazepam(2mg), Zolpidem(10mg) 

 

Excessive use of Nicotine(Inhaled, not Smoked) and Caffeine.

I intend to keep the sertraline and lamotrigine for a while and get rid of the rest, gradually, hopefully.

 

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