lidram: psychiatrist said to cold turkey

[lidram]

On 5/15/2015 at 9:18 PM, wantmyhubbyback said:

might be worthwhile to point out that published medical info on tapering schedules is incredibly wrong

 

https://www.documentforsafety.org/pub/forms/tapering_of_antipsychotic.pdf--25% a WEEK! yikes

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/529317#vp_2-- "4-8 weeks" -- yikes again!

http://www.nmsis.org/pages/preventdiscontinuationsyndromes2.asp-- "4 weeks to 3 months" -- still wrong.

 

who are the people writing this crap?

it continues to floor me that the psych community still doesn't understand or seem to care about getting people off of these drugs. i get the whole revenue stream, big pharma, "fox in henhouse' thing ...but still, wow.

 

I asked my psychiatrist to wean off and he instructed to abruptly stop all medication. Is it maybe because my medication is not so powerful? Reading all these notes about how important it is to taper off slowly, I am quite afraid to obey.

Also, I am hoping that abrupt stop will be very hard for a few months, but stabilise faster, as opposed to tapering off which will take a long time.

 

Please let me know what you think.

[brassmonkey]

Hi Lidram-- welcome to the group I'm so glad you found us. Thank you for providing a signature block, it will really help us to understand what is going on.  This thread is to be your home base for asking questions, collecting information, keeping records and making friends. The first two posts have to be approved by a moderator, then you will be free to post anywhere on the forum.

 

First question, have you actually stopped taking your medication? If so, when? and how?

 

I see from your pm that you have found the thread on Emotional Spirals. A lot of members have found that information very helpful. The techniques take a little practice but can be quite useful in controlling "anger issues".

 

Some other threads you should read would be:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/20161-how-to-talk-to-a-doctor-about-tapering-and-withdrawal-what-to-expect/

 

There are a lot more, but let's not overload things right off the bat.

[lidram]

I have Persistent/Chronic Depression (Dysthymia) caused by genetic inheritance as well as personality traits which cropped up from childhood.

 

I stopped medication last Thursday, abruptly, following the psychiatrist orders. He confirmed this yesterday with my therapist when she showed reservations to an abrupt stop.

 

I started feeling the side effects today, with severe dissiness and emotional instability. i feel i want to cry every moment. I know it will be extremely hard, but if this is the path to get off the bloody pills as fast as possible, i want to do it. i was still very suicidal with them anyway.

 

I was dumped by my partner a few weeks ago. She had been very supportive during the relationship but during break up blamed it all on my depression and inability to support her, so i have been very very suicidal.

I am currently seeing 2 different therapists. One to help me with the depression and another the sexual dysfunction.

[Faure]

Have you looked at other people’s posts? Many are really really suffering with stopping cold turkey - and not suffering just for a few weeks - for months and years.  Would it be possible for you to tell your psychiatrist you’ve changed your mind and want to stay on, then do a taper as suggested by this website without telling him?  I’m sure the mods will give you their advice ☺️. A slow and steady taper means you are much more likely to be able to continue with your life undisrupted.

[lidram]

I have only seen posts saying that it is bad. I have not seen the actual experiences being recounted. If you can supply some links? At the same time, i don't want to read that because it makes me believe that the same will happen to me, but i want to believe that i can beat this.

 

But then again, i was still suffering immensely. Over the last 3 weeks i've had hundreds of moments of suicidal thoughts, and 3 instances of preparing for suicide including plans, tools and suicide notes. And all that while i was still on the meds. So right now my reasoning is, what the hell if it's this bad with the meds, might as well do away altogether.

[Faure]

I’m sorry you are feeling so bad. It must be very hard to know what is for the best. You might look at AlumPA and most anyone’s posts on here. Rosetta is another. But I understand it’s very difficult to read these accounts, so perhaps not if you are not feeling up to it. I wish you all the best.

[Greatful]

 @lidram   My heart goes out to you.  Being in so much pain is hard but you can heal.  Let try to figure out a plan to do that and keep you safe.

 I think you should read some success stories first.  Start with these before you read threads of those people who are still in recovery for years.  They are getting better and healing but I think you need full success stories first.  Many of the success members are still on line and will offer you help and encouragement.   As well as all other members here that are trying to heal from these drugs. 

 

Read Kena thread,  he has not completed his success story yet but he is very close

 

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/22768-☼-kena-8-months-in-withdrawal-after-ct/

 

 

 

The are 3 from the success forum.  There are many more.  Go to the forums section on SA and you will find all sorts of information there

 

 

 ☼-cocopuffz17-paroxetine-free-but-not-trouble-free

 

 Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7761-☼-aeroman-hello-from-aeroman/?st=0

 

You may want to reinstate a small amount of meds to stay stable, than taper off.  WD can be pretty hard.

 

Please take care of yourself.

Keep reaching out, you are not alone.

 

[lidram]

@Greatful much appreciated. Yes, reading through all the problems is only making me more desperate. I see how much pain awaits me and this is so frightening.

 

I read how people had problems with sexual dysfunction and this makes me despair. One of the main reasons i broke off with my partner last month was because for the last 2 years i could not be properly intimate, and without intimacy it is so hard to build a relationship (i have been with her for only 2 years). So i feel very guilty that i did not stop this medication before, because then maybe we could be still together. And also because i have no one to support me or hug me.

 

Worse still, i am extremely afraid that afraid this pain that i will go through, i have no assurance that i will be OK again.

 

I really apologise for being so negative. i am all the time trying to reason things out and reflect on what happened. And every time i come to the conclusion that it is my fault. And i think that was the best partner i could ever hope for, so if i didn't work with her i will never work.

[Greatful]

@lidram  I am sorry that you felt you couldn't have a relationship with your girl friend.  Did she feel neglected?  

How are you feeling today?

Do you have any support to help you through this?

Do you see  a therapist?  That might be a good place to start.  They can help you heal emotionally.  

Do you meditate?  That also would help you learn how to not get caught up in your thoughts and redirect yourself.

Did you get a chance to read any of the success stories or reach out to any of them?

I know you said that you didn't feel good on the medication, do you feel worse now, or the same?

 

Take care of yourself and know that you can heal.

[lidram]

@Greatful yes she felt very neglected. i don't blame her. there were other issues she mentions but i think they could have been easily sorted out if i wasn't depressed and neglected her.

 

sorry for taking long to reply. i have become immensely anxious and paranoid. I fear that i will never gain self-confidence. that i will never have a person whom to gully trust. that i will always need external validation. everything that happens around me, i blame on myself. and the toughest of all this is that this ex-partner i just broke off with, Abigail, was the only person in ever met with whom i could open up entirely. My therapist says that she was still judgemental towards me, and often told me what not to do. but I don't understand that yet. So no, i have no-one to open up with. I have a pretty unorthodox past. I would never open up with my brothers or mum for example.

 

I am currently seeing 2 therapists simultaneously, because the first therapist was not comfortable when i started discussing sexual dysfunction so i had to find another. They have helped me a lot.

 

I do not meditate. I think i need to but starting alone seems hard. i had downloaded an app but didn't quite like it.

 

i read the success stories. very few to be honest. some people have been through so much pain and it scares me. i also didn't find one where i associate myself.

 

Where am i now? I remember how anxious i used to be before i started the medication, and am afraid that i will never control it and will revert to medication again. of course i wasn't always anxious. but will i ever revert to that? My inability to handle stress is very concerning.  I get upset extremely easily.  Minor things put me into an anxious state.  I have flashes of anger.  Everything irritates me but i am making an extremely conscious effort to let go. so for example everywhere i'd go i would be picking up pieces of plastic. street, sea, beach. i forced myself to realise that this is insignificant and useless so i just let them be.

 

i get frequent (every few minutes) brain zaps but i don't mind those. dizzyness was terrible but it seems to be getting better. focusing at work is impossible but i am managing to hide it somewhat (cracks started to show up this week !!!!) . no other side effects i think.

 

i have stopped having suicidal thoughts. just the usual feeling of wanting to not wake up, wanting to disappear.

 

maybe, if i could get rid of my anxiety, the rest could be managed.

[Greatful]

@lidram  

1 hour ago, lidram said:

My inability to handle stress is very concerning.  I get upset extremely easily.  Minor things put me into an anxious state.  I have flashes of anger.  Everything irritates me

These are very typical WD symptoms.  There may be a small bit of truth to them but they are very morphed when you are in WD.  So please be kind to yourself and patient.  I will share what I try to do  when I am angry, depressed, anxious jealousy and so on.  I color code them anger (red)depression (black) and so on.  So when I am depressed I will visualize a black blob/dot in front of me in my mind and think that depression is not me, it's just an experience.  Separate it from you.  Look deep inside and see who really are.  I bet you are a very caring, compassionate, fun, respectful person.  Don't let your distorted negative thoughts deflect who you really are.

 

1 hour ago, lidram said:

I am currently seeing 2 therapists simultaneously,

Are you working on CBT  cognitive therapy?   I have a really good book that I think would be a big help.  In fact I think everyone should read it.

It is by David Burns "Feeling Good   the new mood therapy"  It goes over cognitive distortions.  

There are 10  All or nothing thinking, Overgeneralization, Mental filter, Disqualifying the Positive, Jumping to conclusions, Magnification (catastrophizing) or minimization, Emotional Reasoning, should statements, Labeling and mislabeling, Personalization.      He explains what each of these means and how to counter act these thoughts.  (you'll be amazed on how much your distorted thoughts dictate how you feel. 

I also recently bough his book "when panic attacks" for anxiety.

Ask your therapists if they have heard of these books.

 

1 hour ago, lidram said:

I do not meditate. I think i need to but starting alone seems hard

I use  Head space   I think they have a free trail period.  All you do is find somewhere comfortable ( I like to lay down)  close your eyes (I put my hands on my stomach) focus on your breathe(feel you stomach go up and down) when your mind wonders and thinks(and it will) you gently pull your mind off of your thoughts and refocus on your breath.( you can count your breaths, sometimes I will say in and out as I am breathing.)  Don't get mad or frustrated with yourself when your mind wonders,  this is normal, just keep practicing and it will slowly help you  get  away form getting so stuck in your thoughts.  Our thoughts can create anxiety and depression.  Do this for 5 minute at a time  to start out with. You can do it several times a day

I also do a guided meditation called "Healing Chronic Pain"  Pain comes in all forms emotional and physical.  This one will work along side the color coded idea I gave you earlier.  I use the same concept with this Meditation, if you try it you will understand.  

 

Sorry this is so long😏

I really would like you to get on your feet and beat this craziness.  You can do it. You will heal.  When you are healed from the WD and from the internal  pain you will be ready to find someone to spend the rest of your life with☺️

I hope I am not overwhelming you🙄

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Greatful

[Greatful]

@lidram  How are you doing?

[lidram]

Hello. Hello.

In response to your comments, yes i am often told that i am very caring. But i also get frustrated quickly when i am not understood and cannot explain myself, which removes all the appreciation to my efforts.

I know my feelings are distorted. But, as i am sure you know well enough, it is close to impossible to believe that they are not the truth. Yes i remind myself the many times i've been throught this and later realised i was wrong. I try. But i usually just end up crying myself to sleep.

No i am not doing CBT. I am doing psychotherapy. With one therapist i work on general issues. With the other on sexual difficulties (over the last years as the depression got hold of me i lost confidence and interest in sex and in turn this made me more depressed).

I am trying your idea on breathing, thanks. it helps. I am also starting to do free diving which involves a lot of breathing exercises. i hope this will help me.

In general in the last week i have been very upbeat. I managed to complete an 11km open water swim race. I'm meeting friends every day. I met a woman and we have some kind of relationship. She is OK to stay without committment which is very important for me. i know that if we commit i will fall in her arms for support and not face my own issues. and then i will feel weak and get stuck in the depression. i feel extremely good about being able to face my issues on my own. it makes me feel empowered.

but the anxiety is still there. lots of it. the slightest thing makes me despair. i shakes me inside and out. Last week i almost lost my job because of a sudden flash of frustration and anxiety at the office.

the dizziness is mostly gone, thankfully. it returns when i am anxious, but generally I am OK. All the other side effects are still very much there. So Instability (Dizziness, lightheadedness, difficulty walking), Mood changes (Anxiety, agitation, panic, irritability, anger, mania, and mood swings), Confusion (especially at work where i am a senior officer and need to take decisions), Trouble concentrating, Trouble remembering things (i keep making double appointments because i forget i have something else for example), and Diarrhea (quite bad).

Thankfully, Tremors, suicidal ideation, depression, and Appetite loss are mostly gone. At least for these last few days.

So i think that that i doing really great considering. at least i am not feeling dependant on the medication and this alone to me feels empowering. Do you think the side effects will stay for long?

[Greatful]

@lidram  I am so glad to hear you are doing better.   Remember to put yourself care first,  you need to take care of yourself.😊

I still think it is a good idea to learn some CBT skills.  Try and meditate at least once a day.

You are doing a great job pulling yourself together and learning how to take care of yourself😊

[Needofwisdom]

On 9/3/2021 at 12:34 PM, lidram said:

 

the dizziness is mostly gone, thankfully. it returns when i am anxious, but generally I am OK. All the other side effects are still very much there. So Instability (Dizziness, lightheadedness, difficulty walking), Mood changes (Anxiety, agitation, panic, irritability, anger, mania, and mood swings), Confusion (especially at work where i am a senior officer and need to take decisions), Trouble concentrating, Trouble remembering things (i keep making double appointments because i forget i have something else for example), and Diarrhea (quite bad).

Thankfully, Tremors, suicidal ideation, depression, and Appetite loss are mostly gone. At least for these last few days.

So i think that that i doing really great considering. at least i am not feeling dependant on the medication and this alone to me feels empowering. Do you think the side effects will stay for long?

 

Hello lidram, 5 months ago I too abruptly stopped Lexapro/Escitalopram in early april after a short reinstatement of 6 or 8 days (cant remember). I have and had the exact same withdrawal symptoms as you do for months after months. Everyone is different but speaking from my personal experience the symptoms went from bad to even worst later to the point where I could no longer function at all and was having extreme s ideation and urges. In my opinion any doctor /,psychiatrist telling you to go cold turkey off of your psych meds does not understand the harm it can cause or just doesnt care. The absolute hell you experience from these drugs and their withdrawals I understand how we would want to get off them but the withdrawals become so much to deal with over time.

 

The drug escitalopram was making me angry,distant,uncaring as well and during the time I was on it I had hardly recognized it but when i weaned off the 1st time i understood the difference. Somehow I was stupid enough to try it again 5 months later not knowing the consquences it would cause. Now Im stuck on a .5mg dose trying,hoping and begging that I can slowly come off it somehow so I can reclaim my life. Still very depressed but im trying hard to get little bit better day by day so I can eventually feel strong enough to get out of this terrible experience.

[lidram]

@Greatful

Try and meditate at least once a day

Thank you for reminding me about this. I have only some little experience and to do it by myself it feel hard. But i must try.

 

You are doing a great job pulling yourself together

So kind to say that. I don't feel like that. i keep blaming myself for the relationship that broke. I keep telling myself that i will remain lonely, and that i will not come to terms with the issues i have (i constantly seek for validation from others about everything i do and think). But you think i am doing something right, and that gives me some hope at least :).

 

@Needofwisdom You cannot imagine how much i feel you. The feelings you describe become so much part of the daily life that i start to think that this is normal. Feeling anxious about everything. And getting so irritable. My daughter also told me that i have become very irritable and angry :(. And now i think this is the normal me. Maybe it's the withdrawal. After a decade of meds and a decade before that of being in a choking relationship when i was always told i am wrong, i really don't even know who i am. This is me now, and i don't know if i will ever change. You say that you had the symptoms for many months. And you were only taking them for not even two years! I was having them for almost 10 years. My GOD THIS IS SCARY! Can i ask what kind of ideation and urges? At the moment i have very strong urges for intimacy... obviously a very bad timing without a partner. Maybe this is related???

[Needofwisdom]

1 hour ago, lidram said:

 

@Needofwisdom You cannot imagine how much i feel you. The feelings you describe become so much part of the daily life that i start to think that this is normal. Feeling anxious about everything. And getting so irritable. My daughter also told me that i have become very irritable and angry :(. And now i think this is the normal me. Maybe it's the withdrawal. After a decade of meds and a decade before that of being in a choking relationship when i was always told i am wrong, i really don't even know who i am. This is me now, and i don't know if i will ever change. You say that you had the symptoms for many months. And you were only taking them for not even two years! I was having them for almost 10 years. My GOD THIS IS SCARY! Can i ask what kind of ideation and urges? At the moment i have very strong urges for intimacy... obviously a very bad timing without a partner. Maybe this is related???

 

Hello lidram im sorry to hear you are struggling i understand the struggle and we have to do what we can day by day to get better not worst.

Its not normal you its the withdrawals, yes i only took it for 10 or so but before that i was severely depressed for 10+years i was just not on any medication i was using marijuana on a daily basis over time the marijuana had hit tolerence long ago i wss basically just smoking just to feel anything. Yes there qre very strong urges for intimacy someone you can talk to someone to hold you someone you can comfort yourself in.

 

That is your heart trying to reach out for someone to love. When on the escitalopram you become cold distant and can do without the intimacy because it makes you into that. When you come off your heart is there trying to reach out for help holding onto anything or anyone for comfort.. after 4 or so months cold turkey i could not take the pain anymore the crashes were too much i felt like my world was coming down. I made a mistake and reinstated too high of a dose this had the opposite effect intended symptoms became worst. I then reinstated at the minimal dose 0.5mg or so and felt relief and symptoms began to stabilize. I now have trouble getting accurate doses each and everytime. My sleep has become poor again after 4 months of withdrawals previous to reinstating sleep was restored for the most part now it is broken. I believe you were on too high of a dose from the get go they overprescribe and they over dose patients. This escitalopram is 2 or 3 times more powerful mg for mg than most ssris.

 

Keep your head up try to be gentle to yourself and others there is hope in all of this.

 

[lidram]

@Needofwisdom again thank you so much for the response. It is amazing how even though we are worlds apart and our backgrounds are so different, the feelings are so similar. It helps a lot to see that it's not just me.

 

Yesterday i had the 2nd major incident as a result of the withdrawal. I was on the motorbike and because of the dizzyness i didn't control the speed well. Then the anxiousness kicked in and i lost control. Thankfully the damage is not so huge. No broken bones. But i have a few nice pieces of skin missing now I keep telling myself i can beat this and control myself. But evidently i cannot. I have to adjust my lifestyle to who i am now and accept that i cannot do whatever i want

 

You talk about crashing after 4 months. This means that my worst is still to come. And maybe from reading other comments, any idea how long it can be until withdrawal goes away and we can live again?