Escitalopram21: WD from escitalopram and quetiapine

[Happy2Heal]

37 minutes ago, Escitalopram21 said:

I feel like i can’t live without them! I have been on them for my whole adult life! I dont know how to handle anxiety without them.
i dont know what it means when people write in their drugdescriptions ”symptom free - loving life”.

I was not loving life BEFORE the meds either. I was just a scared and traumatized little girl who couldnt function. I feel like i have been faking beeing an adult who has it all together since i dont feel that way after seizing my meds 😭 even on my meds i have had months when i couldt get out of bed, but then i only had one little child. I dont know what to do! 

@Happy2Heal

sounds like you may have PTSD....??

 

that is what I have, although it took decades before I was "officially" diagnosed

 

you dont' really need any official diagnosis, just read up about it and the symptoms

 

there are ways to deal with PTSD 

it is a struggle to live with, but you can have a good life and start to feel safer and more at peace within yourself

 

you would want to find other survivors of trauma for a support system, ppl who don't have PTSD rarely understand the difficulties we face

 

 

[Escitalopram21]

I am not sure what would have caused my to suffer from ptsd. 
My traumas are mostly from beeing not beeing seen or heard as a child, always felt as an outsider since my family were structly religious, had nightmares about what i heard in the Church. My mom has a lot of traumas herself that she projects on to my dad who spend his days working to dont have to deal with things at home.
I always knew i wanted to be a mum to do better than mine did. Married a man who is emotionally unavailable (just as my parents) and as you can imagine, beeing a great mum in my situation isn’t the easiest. 
 

i mostly suffer from derealization, excess worrieing, avoiding places and situations due to anxiety, i fear beeing Held accountable for things so i dont want any responsibility over other people than my family. 

[Escitalopram21]

I had been what i thought to be ”symptomfree” for years when i came off them. 
Meaning i did not expericence my original symptoms like derealization, anxiety and so on. This is what i have been doing my whole life, turned back or fleed everytime something gets hard. No matter what it is, i always do this. I go hide in my bed, and when hiding in my bed didnt help, i took a pill. Or two. Don’t know how to break that Cycle and for my kids i only want to function like a ”real” human. I am so embarrassed when my 8y old Asks me why i am not working right now. Embarrassed to tell him and sad, angry and embarrassed that i can’t help my kids to selfsoothe because i am so unregulated myself in my nervoussystem. 

[Escitalopram21]

The worst part is the obsticles that I am putting for myself. I can’t even scroll instagram without beating myself up for the things that i ”can’t” do. Meaning that i get flashbacks from  situations when i have had a lot of anxiety or situations that has overwhelmed me to ”pull back” into my Shell of beeing scared and practicing selfpity to the point where i can’t do anything but Rely on my drugs. Because i can’t rely on myself.

[Escitalopram21]

The main reason for me to updose At this point is because i have so many things in my life right now that are superhard to deal with. I Wasnt in a stable place when i started tapering my drugs and that is probably the biggest mistake i did on this Journey so far.

[Happy2Heal]

I am very sorry you are going thru such a hard time

 

 

[Escitalopram21]

Thank u @Happy2Heal

Looking up ptsd made me realize i might suffer from cptsd or borderline personality disorder.

[Escitalopram21]

@Happy2Heal

can i ask how healing from and learning to live with ptsd is different from ex anxiety? 

[Happy2Heal]

14 minutes ago, Escitalopram21 said:

@Happy2Heal

can i ask how healing from and learning to live with ptsd is different from ex anxiety? 

 

 I imagine it's at least slightly different for everyone, depending on your traumas and triggers.

It helps to identify your triggers, I helps immensely to learn to live in the present and when you're triggered by past events (or have flashbacks or nightmares) to consistently remind yourself that those things were in the PAST and you are safe now. 

It helps to find ways to ground yourself, both in the present, and in your own body.

It helps to learn ways to soothe yourself and ways to calm yourself when you are triggered.

 

There is a You Tube therapist who does some Therapy in a Nutshell or something like that, she gives tips for helping with these things. Be aware that she is Christian and mentions her spiritual beliefs from time to time, just in case that might be a trigger for you. If she brings up that stuff, I switch to another video of hers or just try to get the good stuff from what she's saying and kind of block out the stuff that doesn't apply.

 

many trauma survivors have unrealistic expectations of themselves (and sometimes others) many trauma survivors hold outdated or unhelpful beliefs about themselves and others. This is where CBT can be very useful, in helping you to examine those beliefs and challenge them and change them to more helpful and positive beliefs and outlooks.

 

in general it's helpful to learn that basically, we are what we think.

 

for example if we think we can not do something, that is absolutely true. if you think you can't- you can't.

you've already decided by the way you're thinking about something that it's not going to work out.

same goes for saying I've always been this way... therefore I can't change. You can change, if you want to.

This is not to say simply believing you can do something will be enough, nor that believing you can is always going to work out, but if you don't at least start by thinking it's possible, you'll get nowhere.  
It's very helpful to approach challenges with  a sense of wonder: say to yourself, something like, well, I've not been especially good at this in the past, but I wonder what would happen if I tried a doing things differently. I wonder if I change my attitude about it, if that would change the outcome. It may or it may not, but you start off from a different place. 

 

you'd be surprised what you are capable of. I know I was, and continue to be. I don't always or even maybe often, live up to my own advice, I have to admit, but when I do these things, my life improves incredibly.

 

so I keep at it. 

it's a process, a life long process of learning and discovery

it's what makes getting up in the morning joyful and exciting (at least on some days lol)

 

you have a child or children? try to see things thru their eyes, try to capture that sense of wonder that all children have.

it's fun and it'll definitely bring you more light and happiness

 

try to remember when you are anxious, that right here, right now, you are safe, nothing is wrong, you are feeling a feeling you don't like but that feeling "bad" does not in any way mean that things are actually bad. Feelings are not facts.

This was such a revelation to me!
I had assumed all my life, that if I felt say, angry, then of course there was something bad happening that I could not or would not tolerate, when instead it was a feeling, based on what I was thinking, on what was in my own mind and thoughts. The anger or anxiety or whatever did not exist in an event , events are neutral. We put our own values and judgements on them to make them scary or angering or whatever the case may be.

 

oh my it's 3 am, I hope I am making sense! I'm tired but couldn't sleep, I have some upheaval in my life lately. I don't know if any of this helps you but I hope it does 

 

 

[Escitalopram21]

Oh yes, it helps very much! I am so grateful for your answers! They are so insightful and kind ♥️ They are a true lifeline to me right now when i am drowning in my own thoughts and what the doctors thinks. 
Thank u for taking the time to answer me!!! @Happy2Heal

 

What you wrote Sound wonderful and still having such a hard time seeing it for myself! It Sounds absolutely lovely and that doing what you described makes you feel more in Control of your own life! Turning to yourself instead of a Substance makes so much sense.
 

How did you know when was the right time for you to not rely on meds anymore? 
I am absolutely freaked out byt the thought of not having them to turn to every time things get hard. For 12 y i have been thinking everytime anxiety or any other symptom hits ”be calm, you are on your meds” when i should have learned from the Beginning to sooth myself with believing in my own ability 💔

[Happy2Heal]

On 9/28/2021 at 3:23 AM, Escitalopram21 said:

How did you know when was the right time for you to not rely on meds anymore?

this will be different for everyone

I didn't believe I was "relying on meds"- I had been brainwashed into believing the thoroughly debunked "chemical imbalance" theory

and thought my brain "needed" these chemicals.

 

It was when I started to learn the truth that I realized how I'd been lied to, and how much damage believing those lies had cost me

 

four decades of my life, it cost me.

 

for everyone the cost/benefit analysis will be different

 

you have to decide what YOU want

 

 

[Escitalopram21]

I have never believed in the chemical imbalance (i think) it has always been somehow clear to me that my ”illness” is caused by various traumas. 
I handle triggers VERY poorly and somehow the therapy i have attended for 10y has reinforced the belief about myself that i need these meds because i handle my traumas so poorly. But in 10 y I have been given a maximum of 10 tools to do on my own. Which is crazy. 
 

Thank you for the suggestion to check out Therapy in a nutshell. I have spent today watching clips from her and also a woman called Crappy childhood Fairy. She suffers from cptsd (which i am btw very sure i suffer from and maybe some borderlinetraits too). And i Will now start implementing what she teaches into my Daily life. 
 

And I know I dont want to be on these drugs for the rest of my life! Since updosing i feel Numb. Both mentally and physically. (Even though Numbness felt like a relief after having terrible withdrawalsymptoms.)
the 3 months without my drugs this summer were the best months of my life! 
I just dont know how to find the strenght and courage to start this Journey. But I Will find it. I know i Will. 
 

Sorry you couldnt sleep. Are the things causing your sleeplessness something you would like to talk about?

[Escitalopram21]

So i did believe my doctor and therapist and updosed to 3 mg on monday. Which wasnt great in any way. I was desperate because i am unemployed and my doctor was threatening that he wouldnt write a paper i needed to get money from my ”workinsurence” can’t find the right Word for it.

 

i am feeling kind of ok for 3 days but ofc having some symptoms. I somehow thought that updosing would make my symptoms go away, which ofc it didnt. 
 

My symptoms now are flashbacks from different episodes in my life when i felt really poorly, today i had very intrusive irrational thoughts, losing words and can’t Follow up discussions sometimes, a little bit of anxiety and diarrhea, tension. 
 

What could be the best for me to do now? I HAVE to be as stable as possible in 3 weeks when i start working. 
Should i stay on 3 mg or what should I do?

 

@Altostrata @Happy2Heal @brassmonkey

[Altostrata]

Have any symptoms gotten better on 3mg? How has the updose affected your sleep and daily symptom pattern?

[Escitalopram21]

@Altostrata

it has not affected very much. I Wake up the same time, diarrhea in the mornings. I feel happy and confident the whole morning and afternoon, taking 3 mg at 3 pm. Feeling a little tired after taking it, but at ease. Some moments of tightness in my chin.

A little bit of tingling in my legs and feet. 
Have a few times had a little trouble following up conversations in the evening because i loose the thread. 
Yesterday (day 4) after updosing a little bit of anxiety in the evening but had a jobintervju so a big stressor. 
This morning (day 5) a little bit of anxiety. 

And to be superclear, At this point in my life, having kids and beeing unemployed, staying in bed some days is not working for me. I have to stay on the meds for as long as i have too because i need to function. So its not a matter of the Journey beeing longer than expected its just the most stability i am looking for.

[Escitalopram21]

@Altostrata

Today have been pretty though. Woke up with anxiety, have been extremely tired, have a hard time recalling names, words etc. Tightness in my chin, tension in my body, a little feeling of ”floating” outside my head. 

[Altostrata]

17 hours ago, Escitalopram21 said:

I feel happy and confident the whole morning and afternoon, taking 3 mg at 3 pm. Feeling a little tired after taking it, but at ease.

 

If this is how you feel, I'd suspend worrying and allow your body to recover.

 

What are you doing for exercise? That can help the recovery process.

[Escitalopram21]

@Altostrata

Mostly i am feeling ok but the symptom i seem to catch every time starting a drug or as in this case, updosing is a feeling of beeing choked, but from inside. Have also experienced more derealization then in a long time but i am also very happy inbetween. 
I am doing daily Walks, weekly yoga and daily meditation. Also trying to reconceptualize how to deal with traumaresponses.

[Altostrata]

Do you feel better or worse after updosing?

 

Otherwise, it sounds to me like you should stop changing your drugs and allow your nervous system to settle down for a while. before finally tapering off.

[Escitalopram21]

I feel happier and more confident! Could also be because I am ovilating which sometimes makes me feel like i am on top of the world. Also been Listening to traumaexperts like gabor mate and many others and feel more confident on my Journey which propably have contributed to feeling better. @Altostrata

Yes absolutely, i wont see any doctors now for a while so they wont get to me in this. I’ll stay on my dose now until feeling confident enough to try tapering.

[Altostrata]

Good plan. Please continue to let us know how you're doing.

 

After you feel relatively well for a few months, you may wish to taper again.

[Escitalopram21]

Urgh I feel very bad. My symptoms just keep changing. One day its physical anxiety that is the worst, an other day i have psychosis like symptoms when doing yoga for example. And everything in between. Sometimes there is glimpse of something better but at this point i am soooo tired and it feels so hopeless. How long until anything might settle down???? Havent changed my dose in over a month, Can’t take this

 

@Altostrata@Grateful@Happy2Heal

[CharlieBrown13]

Dear Escitalopram21,

I have just read your story and many things seem so familiar to me.  Symptoms such as rapid heartbeat several hours after ingestion, the morning anxiety attacks, diarrhea, and so on and on.

For me, a dose increase from 25 mg to 25.5 ! (you should think homeopathically, far from it), massively worsened the symptoms that I already had (was not a smart idea of mine, the dose increase ...) and from then on the whole thing took its course.
The mini dose increase led to increased serotonintoxicity, which started with anxiety attacks, diarrhea every day, sweating, tachycardia, later first only slight, then more DP / DR and many other symptoms.  
Another dose increase at that time would probably have got me to where I am now, namely in the hospital, even faster.

The whole time I thought I was withdrawing from the last dose cut. But, on the contrary,  I was overdosed and only Altostrata opened my eyes.  And the symptoms always worsened ca 4-5 hours after taking escitalopram and in the morning (I don't know whether escitalopram might accumulate a bit in the night, I haven't found that out yet…).

I could imagine that you are taking too much, Altostrata has already mentioned that, although the mods know definitely a lot better than me.  
Escitalopram can trigger all of these symptoms, anxiety, DR, tachycardia, etc. Too high a serotonin triggers anxiety attacks!  
So don't let any doctor or therapist persuade you to take more than you want (I learnt that the hard way). In the end my body literally screamed that it didn't want anything more - with everything it had. Although my doctor wanted to increase the escitalopram dose to 40 mg (and triple venlafaxine to 150 mg). Because of my „depression“ 🤬)

I could imagine that you will feel much better with a much smaller dose (but please don't change anything without consulting the experts here!).  
 

I keep my fingers crossed for you that your condition will soon stabilize and you feel better!

 

Warm greetings

 

 CharlieBrown13

[Altostrata]

@Escitalopram21 What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages? How do you feel before and after each dose?

 

Have you taken any of your drugs irregularly lately? Skipped a dose? Taken it off schedule? Had any alcohol?

[Escitalopram21]

@Altostrata

i take 3 mg at 3 oclock very considtently. I always take it within a timerange of 10min. 
 

I had a few sips of wine last friday and passed out. After that anxiety has been worse but even before that i have experienced a lot of dp/dr, anxiety and more.

[Altostrata]

15 hours ago, Escitalopram21 said:

I had a few sips of wine last friday and passed out. After that anxiety has been worse but even before that i have experienced a lot of dp/dr, anxiety and more.

 

No alcohol, your system is sensitized. It should gradually calm down over the next few weeks. I wouldn't make any drug changes at this time.

[Escitalopram21]

@Altostrata

Thank you so much for your answer and support. I have now read about alcohol on the site and alcohol was a really bad idea i now understand. 
It seems like it is calming down a bit everyday now. 

[Escitalopram21]

Thank you so much for your kind reply @CharlieBrown13

I stupidly had a few sips of wine last friday which seems to have set me into a spiral of anxiety and many other symptoms. I have now read the threads about alcohol and I am definitely staying away from that in the future. 
 

I read your thread. So sorry that you are going through this horrible thing.
Can’t imagine the things your doctor have told you to do. So scary that even those who are working in this profession don’t know anything about how to prescribe these drugs.

I hope you are doing better soon. 
 

Best regards,,

[CharlieBrown13]

13 minutes ago, Escitalopram21 said:

 

I stupidly had a few sips of wine last friday which seems to have set me into a spiral of anxiety and many other symptoms. I have now read the threads about alcohol and I am definitely staying away from that in the future. 

I think that's a very good idea!  Leave out everything that irritates the nervous system.  I only drink water, you can get used to it… .😊

 

14 minutes ago, Escitalopram21 said:

I read your thread. So sorry that you are going through this horrible thing.
Can’t imagine the things your doctor have told you to do. So scary that even those who are working in this profession don’t know anything about how to prescribe these drugs.

I hope you are doing better soon. 

Thank you, that’s so kind of you.
I was so so mad with this person 😡yesterday afternoon (but not good for the nervous system either..😬), I think she stole many months of my life from me, and my 86 year old mother is so desperate about it all. It’s really hard to accept that for me.

I told my doctor (the one who prescribed that s…) on the answering machine, that I want to talk to her.  If she refuses that, I'll write a review about her practice and this one won't be kind ...
I am certainly partly to blame that I, stupid sheep that I was, went through all this and thought that all these terrible symptoms were just side effects that you have to endure. I never even thought it was toxicity.  
 

I’m not sure, what would have happened, if I hadn’t found this forum when things got worse and worse. 

Today it is actually a little better, I'll go for a walk afterwards.  

 

I wish you all the best from Germany, stay strong!!

[Escitalopram21]

Hello!

just Wanted to step by and tell you that i have had 2 really good days in a row. Feeling almost normal and been able to enjoy my everyday life!!

 

[Greatful]

@Escitalopram21

That's great and well  deserved.❤️

[Escitalopram21]

As We all know i should have been prepared for the relief didnt last for long. I havent felt any relief now in 8 days. I keep go to work and besides that i just cry and ruminate. My kids are withdawing from me, why would they not? I am not a mum i would want either.

 

Saw my therapist on wednesday. She is such a tremendous help in this but she does not believe in wd. 
she wants me to go back on a small dose of Quetiapin since she believes what i am going through is caused by my parents divorce amongst other things. And franckly i am so weak right now, so tired. Trying to keep things together in the family and at work. Fighting ”crazy” thoughts all the time, i am superscared of anything that reminds me of my religious trauma or anything else supernatural. Anything can trigger my mind to got to deep into my traumas and make me feel like i am going crazy. Literally crazy i can’t even put it in words and then my body reacts and i keep ruminating over if i really am sane or what is going on with me. Help 💔

[Greatful]

@Escitalopram21

I am surprised that your therapist recommended Seroquel,  first you are not psychotic. which is what the drug is for.  They have done research that anti psychotic drugs can shrink the brain.  Second she is not a doctor and has no training on drugs....  Cheeky's  new doctor was shocked that she was put on Seroquel when she was not psychotic. 

Do some research on any drugs first for sure about anti psychotic's

 

How old are your kids?  Are you reading to much into it?  

 

I really feel your pain about the religious trauma.   From my childhood trauma I developed some confusion  on my faith and now in WD I am have developed some crazy distorted thoughts that have me in a world of pain, ocd, loops of what is right and wrong, affecting other people in there salvation or mine.  Deep down I know that it is all distorted but the "what if's " are crazy  and strong.  

 

Were you able to control it in when you were in a wave?  Do you have a more rational brain then?

 

My heart really does go out to you❤️

 

 

 

 

[Escitalopram21]

I have been on Seroquel for six years which made me feel supergood for 4 y. Then i Guess due to changes in my metabolism (?) i started experiencing brain fog and soon suffered from memory loss for almost 2 years. Maybe because i was pregnant, breastfeeding and some time after that started smoking again and using alcohol occasionally. After stopping seroquel and decreasing Escitalopram i dont suffer from brainfog anymore which is the only reason i have been able to stay off. because my mind keeps telling me how good i was doing on seroquel. 
 

My religious background is probably the reason to my main symptoms which are exactly the same as when i first got ”mentally ill”. 
i experience some kind of dissociation almost all day when my mind is superaware of the outside world. Like my mind is constantly keeping track of the sky and heaven (?). 
Then blended with an intense fear of anything supernatural. Like today i got so anxious watching a kidsmovie with my daughter about technology taking over the world. I know it sounds so silly but it caused so much distress and my mind went so deep into it. And there are so many small things happening that cause this symptom. 
when i am not in a wave its a bit better but not very good ofc. But after having some time of not feeling so poorly my mind can relax a tiny bit.
 

My kids are 4 and 8 years. I know they withdrew from me During the last two years because my forgetfulness, my depression and my inablilty to actually see them in all my own pain. 
i just want to be able to live and actually be there for them so they dont get their own traumas because of me.

 

thank you @Greatfulfor your answer! It means the world to me. 
 

 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

5 hours ago, Escitalopram21 said:

As We all know i should have been prepared for the relief didnt last for long. I havent felt any relief now in 8 days. I keep go to work and besides that i just cry and ruminate. My kids are withdawing from me, why would they not? I am not a mum i would want either.

 

Saw my therapist on wednesday. She is such a tremendous help in this but she does not believe in wd. 
she wants me to go back on a small dose of Quetiapin since she believes what i am going through is caused by my parents divorce amongst other things. And franckly i am so weak right now, so tired. Trying to keep things together in the family and at work. Fighting ”crazy” thoughts all the time, i am superscared of anything that reminds me of my religious trauma or anything else supernatural. Anything can trigger my mind to got to deep into my traumas and make me feel like i am going crazy. Literally crazy i can’t even put it in words and then my body reacts and i keep ruminating over if i really am sane or what is going on with me. Help 💔

I am sorry to say this but I think ur therapist is unacceptable for suggesting an antipsychotic ….. i am not a moderator but i don’t see how ur symptoms can be helped by such a drug. I wonder if ur therapist would ever take an antipsychotic herself if she was dealing with some kind of trauma. 

[Greatful]

@Escitalopram21 How are you doing?  Do you think you have pure OCD and some DR/DP going on. 

 

I see you quit Seroquel about the same time as I did. I ct'ed  it the end of March after 6 weeks on it. You were on 50mgs and I had worked my way up to 150mg in the 6weeks.   I am so glad that I got off of it. Not the right way I know.

I was all most delusional, I thought the birds might start talking to me, I was worried the wind might turn into a man voice, I worried that eyes might be trying to tell me something.  I knew enough to know it was crazy thinking, but my brain would not let it go. I was under the feeling that I should be afraid of something, I would look around to see if there was something there.

 

I thought popped into my brain that what if my hubby's snoring will turn in to talk to me or is trying to tell me something. I would look around to see if there was something there.

 

 I had  DR/DP last summer, then I went into flashbacks now I am bouncing between them all but getting better and episodes don't last as long. 

 

 Do you think you can give you brain a little more time to get it's self together?

When you change doses, up/down your brain doesn't always like that and can create unusual/crazy thinking. 

I cut my lex 2 weeks ago and I had some pure ocd thoughts that scared me again yesterday morning.

 

I might have given this to you before but here it is again.  It is about a woman who recovered from benzo, she explain "What is happening in your brain"  Altro equates it to anyone who has been affected by drugs/chemicals

http://What is happening in your brain?  

 

Here is part of a post from Farout to Liimizz  who is about beside herself with awful thoughts. I will delate the gory ones in case you trigger easily.

[TRIGGER ALERT]

•  

• I had one moment of being terrified of the moon (don't know why);

• I had deeply, shamefully racist thoughts (very unlike me);

• I thought similarities or dates in movies had some hidden, terrifying meaning so I couldn't watch TV, look at social media or open messages in case they triggered something;

• ;

•  

• I once saw a baby being held by it's mum and recoiled because it looked/felt - I don't know - corrupted? Prompt more harm OCD (Normal me loves babies and will always be the one holding one and playing with the toddlers at gatherings);

• I felt like liquids changed consistency in my mouth; and

• once I got a handle on the harm intrusive thoughts (see below) my theme became about contamination (again, totally unlike me)

I haven't ever experienced that before I took the SSRI and I haven't experienced it since I have been recovered.  It was like living in a nightmare This thing attacks what you hold most dear and exploits some of our earlier hidden fears & sense of self (& puts them on steroids!). It happens that way to get your attention. For me it was harm directed at myself and my family - because I am a gentle, empathetic soul.  Over the years I have spoken with a runner who couldn’t use her legs, a profoundly faithful person who became fearful of God, an extrovert who couldn’t be around people, and so on post adverse reaction. 

 

 

Looks like you maybe going through some chemical effects from the drugs I don't know? I don't want to tell you what to do.

I do know that I can relate to the how scary and real everything feels like.  As you can see you are not alone and not crazy.❤️

 

 

 .