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How to find hope when there are no signs of recovery?


GeoJeep

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I know that I’ve only been walking this path for 7 months, which is nothing compared to how long some folks here have been struggling with this nightmare, but I just don’t see how I can ever be functional again.

 

I have had a few symptoms go away, but it’s been months since I’ve seen any changes, aside from a gradual worsening of my wellbeing. My memory has worsened. My fatigue has worsened. I’m more emotionally blunted/anhedonic than ever. I have yet to experience any windows of relief. How can I believe that recovery is possible? I’ve seen success stories, but they seem to be vastly outnumbered by all the poor souls who seem to be stuck like this indefinitely. Many people here say that most of us will improve, and that recovery is only a matter of time, albeit a long, grueling time, but I just don’t a reason to believe that this is true.

 

How do you all manage to find hope when things are so grim?

12/23/20 - started fluoxetine 20mg/day

1/2/21 - adverse reaction symptoms appeared

1/5/21 - stopped fluoxetine CT

present - some symptoms have remitted, but most have remained

 

Symptoms that have fully remitted: phantosmia, burning/tingling sensations on skin, muscle spasms

 

Symptoms that have partially remitted: numbness, DP/DR, impaired coordination, panic attacks

 

Symptoms that are still present: mental and physical fatigue, cognitive impairment(memory, concentration, problem solving, executive function, etc…), visual snow/retinal after images, headaches, feeling hungover, anhedonia, aphasia, loss of emotions, confusion/disorientation, loss of appetite, exercise intolerance, sensitivity to light/sound/temperature, depression, anxiety, “nervous system overload” feeling, sexual dysfunction(remitted and relapsed)

 

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JesusSavemefromWD

I am so sorry for ur suffering…Just know you are not alone… I have been having the same question myself… how to find hope when month after month the suffering continues and even new symptoms pop up. I am a short term AD user as well and have been suffering for the last 9 months. I have seen improvements but they are minor and I am still disabled …can’t even take care of my kids, my house or simply just watch TV…

However, these minor improvements do show us that we are in the right track of healing but extremely and painfully slow… Stay strong

Aug. 16-17, 2020, cipralex: went CRAZY! Recovered in 24hrs

 

Aug.28,2020; 3.5 weeks 25mg sertraline/4.5 weeks taper

Oct. 25: Last dose (4mg)

Symptoms while on zoloft

DPDR/out of my body/soul despair/feeling dead;eye floaters/ tinnitus/no appetite; constant fear, anxiety/panics

4 months OFF: pure hell

soul despair, anxiety/fear, brain disconnection/ DPDR, brain feels swollen-numb/crazy/bedridden barely functioning, tinnitus, eye lid twitches; face spasms. Feeling slightly better after 10pm.

- sleep & appetite are fine

9 months OFF: Constant hell, no windows, same symptoms as above  (only eye and face twitches have stopped) plus intense arm/shoulder pain and visual issues. Tinnitus replaced by head buzzing. 

10 months-1 year: all above symptoms, plus Insomnia (out of nowhere), depression, no peace of mind (mental Akathisia?). No windows or feeling better late nights.

Sept 2021-present 2.5mg melatonin 

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@JesusSavemefromWD I’m sorry to hear that you’re still experiencing such agony 9 months out. Does anything help you hold out hope?

 

I used to be a very devout Christian, but I can’t even bring myself to have faith in God anymore. When this all started, I begged and pleaded with God to end my suffering, but it seems as though I was merely pleading with the wind. My spirituality has been utterly destroyed, and I’ve become an absolute nihilist over these past 7 months. Sometimes I still pray, in hopes that maybe I will get an answer, but so far my prayers seem to fall on deaf ears.

12/23/20 - started fluoxetine 20mg/day

1/2/21 - adverse reaction symptoms appeared

1/5/21 - stopped fluoxetine CT

present - some symptoms have remitted, but most have remained

 

Symptoms that have fully remitted: phantosmia, burning/tingling sensations on skin, muscle spasms

 

Symptoms that have partially remitted: numbness, DP/DR, impaired coordination, panic attacks

 

Symptoms that are still present: mental and physical fatigue, cognitive impairment(memory, concentration, problem solving, executive function, etc…), visual snow/retinal after images, headaches, feeling hungover, anhedonia, aphasia, loss of emotions, confusion/disorientation, loss of appetite, exercise intolerance, sensitivity to light/sound/temperature, depression, anxiety, “nervous system overload” feeling, sexual dysfunction(remitted and relapsed)

 

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JesusSavemefromWD

I am a Christian as well but to be honest I feel like God has stopped listening .. I ll continue to pray and add u in my prayers as well. What keeps me going is my two boys … they are to young to loose their mom. Also based on some success stories from short term users it seems like most healing started after the 10 months, so I am hopping I might start feeling better soon. 
My current doctor (who accepts that Zoloft caused all these) has suggested a small dose of Prozac (2mg) as maybe a way to alleviate my symptoms but I have been to scared to start taking it. Reading ur side effects from 2 weeks on Prozac makes me think I shouldn’t try it, no matter how much I suffer. 
Deep down inside I feel 

we will heal with time … we didn’t suffer a permanent brain injury or severe strokes, so our brain should find a way to rewire. It is just I wish we had some nice windows in between to get us going … I don’t really have windows but a slight reduction of symptoms after 10 pm. 
 

Aug. 16-17, 2020, cipralex: went CRAZY! Recovered in 24hrs

 

Aug.28,2020; 3.5 weeks 25mg sertraline/4.5 weeks taper

Oct. 25: Last dose (4mg)

Symptoms while on zoloft

DPDR/out of my body/soul despair/feeling dead;eye floaters/ tinnitus/no appetite; constant fear, anxiety/panics

4 months OFF: pure hell

soul despair, anxiety/fear, brain disconnection/ DPDR, brain feels swollen-numb/crazy/bedridden barely functioning, tinnitus, eye lid twitches; face spasms. Feeling slightly better after 10pm.

- sleep & appetite are fine

9 months OFF: Constant hell, no windows, same symptoms as above  (only eye and face twitches have stopped) plus intense arm/shoulder pain and visual issues. Tinnitus replaced by head buzzing. 

10 months-1 year: all above symptoms, plus Insomnia (out of nowhere), depression, no peace of mind (mental Akathisia?). No windows or feeling better late nights.

Sept 2021-present 2.5mg melatonin 

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It’s good that you have a doctor that acknowledges the effects of these substances. It’s just so hard to believe that this can end, especially with a lack of windows to indicate healing. I’ll keep you and your family in my prayers as well.

12/23/20 - started fluoxetine 20mg/day

1/2/21 - adverse reaction symptoms appeared

1/5/21 - stopped fluoxetine CT

present - some symptoms have remitted, but most have remained

 

Symptoms that have fully remitted: phantosmia, burning/tingling sensations on skin, muscle spasms

 

Symptoms that have partially remitted: numbness, DP/DR, impaired coordination, panic attacks

 

Symptoms that are still present: mental and physical fatigue, cognitive impairment(memory, concentration, problem solving, executive function, etc…), visual snow/retinal after images, headaches, feeling hungover, anhedonia, aphasia, loss of emotions, confusion/disorientation, loss of appetite, exercise intolerance, sensitivity to light/sound/temperature, depression, anxiety, “nervous system overload” feeling, sexual dysfunction(remitted and relapsed)

 

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Surviving82

@GeoJeep, @JesusSavemefromWD, my heart goes out to you. It is crazy how much these drugs are damaging, even after such short term use. I am praying that God will give you guys a nice window very soon. I have been in WD for about 5 months and I already had a nice 2 week window that felt at least 90% back to my normal self. It was so nice! That was my first window and I thought wow, maybe I am healed! But as you can imagine, that wasn't the case and the next wave hit me about 5 days ago. I feel mostly back to where I was before the window, but at about 80% intensity for all symptoms. So far, who knows how bad it is going to get still, but I am trying to not think about that. Having that window renewed my hope that healing is possible! You will get windows too. I can't imagine things going any other way after such a short term use. I know it feels so hard, I really do. I am crying right now as I am typing this. But we have to go on. My kids are my reason to live too. In the hardest days when I feel like giving up I look at them and keep going. Sending you guys lots of virtual hugs and healing vibes!

 

Also, do you guys get a relief in the evening? I do most days, even in the wave. I know that come 6PM and later I start feeling better. The best is probably around 9PM, which is nice. Gives me an opportunity to relax and unwind before bed. Do you get that? For me, knowing that some relief will be coming soon helps me get through the hardest days...

My thread: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24990-surviving82-my-story-wd-from-antidepressants-please-help/

2016-2017: sertraline for approx. 1.5 years for anxiety and OCD outbreak following birth of my son (all the way from 2mg to 200mg), rapid tapered from 150mg for about 6 weeks without issues. Approximately 2 years psych drug free.

 

Nov 2019 - Feb 2020: fluvoxamine to prevent anxiety/OCD outbreak following birth of my daughter. Had to go off due to constant somnolence.

Feb 2020 - Dec 2020: started escitalopram while rapid tapering fluvoxamine. After 9 months decided to get off due to weight gain, rapid tapered from [I think] 15mg for about 6 weeks without immediate issues.

March-April 2021: started excessive strenuous exercise and dieting regimen for weight loss. Was doing great (or so I thought) for 3 weeks until early April 2021 when out of nowhere massive panic attacks, other dysautonomia symptoms. AWFUL CRASH.   

Mid-April 2021: fluoxetine 10mg for 1 week then 20mg for 1 week. Massive side effects, suicidality. Was told to go CT. Side effects gradually started resolving.

Mid-Late May 2021: sertraline for 11 days, fine at low doses but same side effects as prozac at 25 to 50mg. Was told to either drop CT or hold at 1/4 of a 25mg pill. 

April-May 2021: trazodone 50mg PRN for sleep. Do not take every day, the only side effect I noticed is dry mouth.

June 8, 2021: stopped all psych meds. Truing to trust that with God's help, my body will heal on its own. 

September 9, 2021: reinstated escitalopram 1mg. Gradually worked up to 2.5mg by September 30. Reinstatement seems to be helping!

Other: Hashimoto thyroiditis for 11 years (on levothyroxine varying doses, between 88mcg and 125mcg), history of anxiety/GAD including health anxiety, OCD. History of autonomic dysfunction (migraines, vasovagal episodes).

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JesusSavemefromWD

@Surviving82

Thank you for words of encouragement… much needed… happy for you having windows… unfortunately things are still severe for me , it is just hard to accept that few weeks on a low dose of Zoloft has caused so much suffering going on for almost 10 months now, without windows or any light at the end of the tunnel. 
I pray that we all heal at some point . 

Aug. 16-17, 2020, cipralex: went CRAZY! Recovered in 24hrs

 

Aug.28,2020; 3.5 weeks 25mg sertraline/4.5 weeks taper

Oct. 25: Last dose (4mg)

Symptoms while on zoloft

DPDR/out of my body/soul despair/feeling dead;eye floaters/ tinnitus/no appetite; constant fear, anxiety/panics

4 months OFF: pure hell

soul despair, anxiety/fear, brain disconnection/ DPDR, brain feels swollen-numb/crazy/bedridden barely functioning, tinnitus, eye lid twitches; face spasms. Feeling slightly better after 10pm.

- sleep & appetite are fine

9 months OFF: Constant hell, no windows, same symptoms as above  (only eye and face twitches have stopped) plus intense arm/shoulder pain and visual issues. Tinnitus replaced by head buzzing. 

10 months-1 year: all above symptoms, plus Insomnia (out of nowhere), depression, no peace of mind (mental Akathisia?). No windows or feeling better late nights.

Sept 2021-present 2.5mg melatonin 

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Surviving82
17 minutes ago, JesusSavemefromWD said:

@Surviving82

Thank you for words of encouragement… much needed… happy for you having windows… unfortunately things are still severe for me , it is just hard to accept that few weeks on a low dose of Zoloft has caused so much suffering going on for almost 10 months now, without windows or any light at the end of the tunnel. 
I pray that we all heal at some point . 

@JesusSavemefromWD, I know it is very hard to accept and so unfair. My psychiatrist told me that someone need to be on it for at least 6-8 weeks to even start forming dependence and a chance for WD. Obviously this isn't the case. Hang in there. AT least your sleep is fine, that alone is a BIG plus. Insomnia makes everything so much more difficult...

My thread: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24990-surviving82-my-story-wd-from-antidepressants-please-help/

2016-2017: sertraline for approx. 1.5 years for anxiety and OCD outbreak following birth of my son (all the way from 2mg to 200mg), rapid tapered from 150mg for about 6 weeks without issues. Approximately 2 years psych drug free.

 

Nov 2019 - Feb 2020: fluvoxamine to prevent anxiety/OCD outbreak following birth of my daughter. Had to go off due to constant somnolence.

Feb 2020 - Dec 2020: started escitalopram while rapid tapering fluvoxamine. After 9 months decided to get off due to weight gain, rapid tapered from [I think] 15mg for about 6 weeks without immediate issues.

March-April 2021: started excessive strenuous exercise and dieting regimen for weight loss. Was doing great (or so I thought) for 3 weeks until early April 2021 when out of nowhere massive panic attacks, other dysautonomia symptoms. AWFUL CRASH.   

Mid-April 2021: fluoxetine 10mg for 1 week then 20mg for 1 week. Massive side effects, suicidality. Was told to go CT. Side effects gradually started resolving.

Mid-Late May 2021: sertraline for 11 days, fine at low doses but same side effects as prozac at 25 to 50mg. Was told to either drop CT or hold at 1/4 of a 25mg pill. 

April-May 2021: trazodone 50mg PRN for sleep. Do not take every day, the only side effect I noticed is dry mouth.

June 8, 2021: stopped all psych meds. Truing to trust that with God's help, my body will heal on its own. 

September 9, 2021: reinstated escitalopram 1mg. Gradually worked up to 2.5mg by September 30. Reinstatement seems to be helping!

Other: Hashimoto thyroiditis for 11 years (on levothyroxine varying doses, between 88mcg and 125mcg), history of anxiety/GAD including health anxiety, OCD. History of autonomic dysfunction (migraines, vasovagal episodes).

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JesusSavemefromWD

@Surviving82

Unfortunately Last 5-6 days I am getting insomnia as well, I need melatonin to get some kind of sleep. My sleep has been paradise like sleep during all these months and was what was keeping me going. I haven’t changed anything lately so I don’t know why it changed … I have to hope it ll get back to normal 

Aug. 16-17, 2020, cipralex: went CRAZY! Recovered in 24hrs

 

Aug.28,2020; 3.5 weeks 25mg sertraline/4.5 weeks taper

Oct. 25: Last dose (4mg)

Symptoms while on zoloft

DPDR/out of my body/soul despair/feeling dead;eye floaters/ tinnitus/no appetite; constant fear, anxiety/panics

4 months OFF: pure hell

soul despair, anxiety/fear, brain disconnection/ DPDR, brain feels swollen-numb/crazy/bedridden barely functioning, tinnitus, eye lid twitches; face spasms. Feeling slightly better after 10pm.

- sleep & appetite are fine

9 months OFF: Constant hell, no windows, same symptoms as above  (only eye and face twitches have stopped) plus intense arm/shoulder pain and visual issues. Tinnitus replaced by head buzzing. 

10 months-1 year: all above symptoms, plus Insomnia (out of nowhere), depression, no peace of mind (mental Akathisia?). No windows or feeling better late nights.

Sept 2021-present 2.5mg melatonin 

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  • Mentor
Colonial
On 8/11/2021 at 2:29 PM, GeoJeep said:

I used to be a very devout Christian, but I can’t even bring myself to have faith in God anymore. When this all started, I begged and pleaded with God to end my suffering, but it seems as though I was merely pleading with the wind. My spirituality has been utterly destroyed, and I’ve become an absolute nihilist over these past 7 months.

 

It's usually a traumatic life event that forces us to come to terms with who God really is and not who we want Him to be.

When things are good Our spiritual life runs on auto pilot and we can live in a false relationship with the creator.

We can "abuse" a notion of who God is and what and why we expect from Him.

Rarely when things are good do we think of what He expects from Us.

 

Suffering is never pleasant, but, in the Christian tradition, it is the means by which God matures Us.

Even Job in the Old Testament, being as righteous as He was, was tested to "prove" if He was only going to be true to God because God would always bless Him or if, as Satan said, "Take His health from Him and He will curse you."

 

This life really is the proving ground by which from a Christian background, "Work out our salvation with fear and trembling", as St. Paul said.  

We know God chastises those He loves and trials and tribulations are the way we come to maturity and compassion.

As scripture mentions of Christ: " He learned obedience by what He suffered". 

 

That is not to say we brought our illnesses or suffering on ourselves, but they are the means by which the rest of our life can be refined and all the unnecessary and selfish motives and reasons for existing can and will be stripped from us so we are able to focus and mature along the path.

 

I have found at times, that if God comes and "heals" us or rescues us too quickly from Our suffering, individuals can fall right back into the old ways of relating with Him and others and back into dysfunctional behavior patterns that were the reasons many people were put on medications to begin with. 

Trying to work through the process of WD is tough, but it forces you to deal with the reasons why we were compromised in many areas of our lives.

 

Intense prolonged suffering forces us to really learn where our "True Hope" resides.

Not in theory, but in reality.

We realize how much we really thought we knew better what was actually good for Ourselves and how little "Faith" we actually had in God.

 

Many times people want to know: "How long will this last?"

I find it continues to last until we learn and truly grasp what we needed to learn and are willing to accept that that process means a going forward and not a "getting back" to what we once were or was the past "normal". 

 

"Whom God calls He qualifies", and boot camp is kind of rough, but it ends when we are willing to go through the process and learn what we must.

God strengthens us for greater things in the future by growing pains such as months and years in many ways, but suffering is chief.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs  8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/29/21: 0.20mgs

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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On 8/12/2021 at 2:09 AM, GeoJeep said:

I know that I’ve only been walking this path for 7 months, which is nothing compared to how long some folks here have been struggling with this nightmare, but I just don’t see how I can ever be functional again.

 

I have had a few symptoms go away, but it’s been months since I’ve seen any changes, aside from a gradual worsening of my wellbeing. My memory has worsened. My fatigue has worsened. I’m more emotionally blunted/anhedonic than ever. I have yet to experience any windows of relief. How can I believe that recovery is possible? I’ve seen success stories, but they seem to be vastly outnumbered by all the poor souls who seem to be stuck like this indefinitely. Many people here say that most of us will improve, and that recovery is only a matter of time, albeit a long, grueling time, but I just don’t a reason to believe that this is true.

 

How do you all manage to find hope when things are so grim?

 

 

Yep - keeping hope is the hardest bit of all, yet absolutely necessary for healing.

 

I have a scientific background in maths and physics, and Einstein (who is basically a God for me for what he has accomplished for humans and science) said: 'insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results'. To me this sounds very familiar with what we are all doing: sticking to a healthy diet every day, hoping to feel better tomorrow than we did today / a month ago / 6 months ago. 

 

I guess my motivation lies in the fact that I don't have a choice. Losing hope and giving up on life would mean becoming depressed and would essentially ruin all chances of actually getting better. The symptoms are bad, but wallowing in depressing thoughts would make the bad days even worse, and would annihilate your chances of enjoying any of the brief windows. Accepting that symptoms follow a chaotic pattern (rather than any logic) but that you will eventually feel normal at some point in time means that at one point, you will be going through a wave that will be the very last wave. You have absolutely no way of knowing when this will be or even that you are in this last wave when you're in it - but it's a fact nonetheless. In that sense, you can try and tell yourself that every wave you go through brings you closer to the end of the withdrawal.

 

That said, speaking to my therapist made me realise that for me, being too hopeful can be detrimental. The reason is simply: every time I have a window of feeling slightly better, I inevitably start thinking about getting my normal life back: perhaps I'll be able to exercise in a few weeks, or go to my friend's birthday next month... I think this is not helpful, because it means when the inevitable wave surges and sweeps the carpet from under my feet, I end up feeling really down again. Instead I think it's better to stay hopeful with the end goal (you will be feeling normal one day, even if it's in three years), but not tom get enthusiastic for each window of feeling better: make the most of it and be ready for anything the next day.

 

In terms of hardship, there are many things which make these withdrawals harder than anything else:

 

The worst of all is the windows and waves pattern. Everything else I've ever had (chronic gastritis, chronic insomnia, mental pain / grief from losing my mum) always goes away either linearly, or in 'steps' (feel awful for a period of time then suddenly over a week or two things improved, stay at that new level for some weeks and then improve to a better level, etc until I'm back to normal. This time, I've had a few series of days where I almost felt normal again, and I had this awesome feeling that I'd won - what a battle that had been! And yet I must be in my tenth wave by now (almost 7 months in).

 

Another one is the chaotic nature of the symptoms, as in opposed to any rational aspect. Intense Exercising is an obvious trigger for me but aside from that, there is no rule to my symptoms. I can go to bed feeling amazing, sleep well and wake up feeling awful. I can wake up feeling awful and feel better in the afternoon. I can even feel fine, take a 15min nap and wake up feeling terrible for the rest of the day. It's totally unpredictable there is no logic to it. There is also no logic to why it happened in the first place (I withdrew from this med before and went back on without too many issues). Totally irrational things tend to annoy me very much (I actually find correlations for a living in fact...)

 

In terms of things that help me and may help you:

 

1/ finding things that you had not necessarily been exposed to before (or not too much) but that you really like. For me I'm lucky in that my memory / energy / ability to think are not impacted so I am getting educated on climate change, reading a lot of history books, and looking into a range of things. 

 

2/ Some techniques learnt in therapy. Repeating to myself and writing down positive affirmations when I feel down. Writing a diary also helps to see marginal progress over the weeks. Picturing a little devil crossing some wires in my brain just for the sake of annoying me also helps to take a step back from what is going on. Groundin exercises if you are overwhelmed by your negative thoughts. Simple enough but takes time to learn how to use them.

 

3/ Learning about history and what our ancestors dealt with really puts things into perspective. My nan lost 3 siblings and her dad in the space of 1 month to typhoid fever during WW2. That's bad. In my current book, the plot is set in a Japanese POW camp during WW2, where 14 in every 15 people died, and the main character spends three of what should be the best years of his life in there (24-27 YO). That's really, really bad. It doesn't make my symptoms go away, but it does make me gain some perspective on how things are now vs what some people have lived through!

 

As a final word I'd say: you need to find what works best for you. you can get some ideas from this forum, but I wouldn't spend too much time on it if I'm honest: I haven't been on here in about 6 weeks I reckon, as reading half tainted success stories or that took 3 years isn't actually good for my mental health. 

 

Good luck to you, hope you get better soon

-July 2019: 300mg Lyrica

-November 2019: 50mg Amitriptyline, upped to 100mg in December

-Jan 2020: down to 50mg Amitriptyline

-March 2020: stopped Lyrica successfully.

-May-June 2020: taper down to 0 AMT

-July 2020: back on 50mg AMT

-Dec 2020: 37.5mg AMT

early Jan 2021: 31.25mg AMT

Late Jan 2021: 25mg AMT

March 2021: back to 50mg AMT

Late April 2021: 75mg AMT

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I am where you are right now too.  I dont have any hope .  This current wave is awful.  Mostly caused by a debilitating physical symptom that I am having a hard time dealing with everyday.  I often wonder what quality of life this is to live like that?  Like why bother?  such misery.  I know it sounds like a pity party but i cannot help it.  It is genuinly how i feel.  I am really just living for my family now, because I dont want to hurt them.  But i feel like the way I am I am not bringing much value to their lives. They would disagree because they love me.  

 

Really dont want to do this anymore.  :( 

 9/2018- lexapro low dose few days.11/3/2018- zoloft 2 days

11/7/18  - 11/15/18 - Prozac 9 days, from 10 mg for week, to 20

11/16  inpatient put on Lexapro for a few days, Cymbalta, 2 days

11/24-12/8 - gabapentin 100 mg 3xs per day - a very fast taper

1/7 - tbuspar for  three days- blurry vision, jerky eye

1/17/19 - 2/15/19- mirtazapine 15 mg - started taper on 1/30 

2/20/19 gabapentin 600 mg. .  12/20-  taper finished

2/20/19 - seroquel 25 mg current - taken  10 pm

2/20/19- luvox (generic) 25 mg.  4/6/19  to 18.75 mg .held  . Started taper again  1/7/21- 15 mg, 2/7/21- 12.5 mg, 3/7/21 -10 mg, 4/1/21- 9 mg, 5/1/21- 8.1 mg, 5/27/21- updose to 10 mg,  6/21-  in patient updose to 50 mg,  6/25/21- reduce to 10 mg (current) .  9/5- split dose 5mg am/5 mg pm.  9/20- 4 mg am/5 mg pm . 

9/1/21-  took one dose of vistril 50 mg.   

9/1/21-accidental double dose of seroquel- 50 mg 

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I am new here. So just dipping my toe in.

 

I was scared to join to read how others are but something I wanted to do and desperately needed to do.

 

Lockdown had not really changed much for me and my mental health. I was working from home then found out my brother had taken his own life. I had already started to reduce 10% every four weeks and all of a sudden a massive 'wave' this last week. I felt I could of seen it coming and prevented it but apparently this is healing..... But how do we know when we we regain functioning again?. Who knows when I'll feel me again. It's likes having two heads on these medications, awful.

 

 

 

I am hoping we will all survive this that's why I've joined so I know it's not just me as it's a lonely place. I tried listening to the news but I can't even cope with that. Hearing about Afghanistan.... I'm a young woman, 44 with a 13 year old son. I have a job. I'm intelligent but this drug has made me feel stupid. I don't want to be in bed but I've got up, fed the cats, had a piece of toast and drank lots of water, had a bath and become exhausted again. That's my day schedule at the moment.

 

I had a two-week holiday and still got a massive deterioration after it. 

 

 

I guess I'm just going to use this forum to see how I can help myself over the years getting off psychiatric meds. I feel angry and cheated tbh by healthcare. Prescribers not helping pick up the pieces the drugs have caused.

2013 Citalopram 50mg  2014 February Sertraline 50mg 2014 September Fluoxitine 20mg 2015 May Fluoxitine 20mg (Liquid to reduce off)

2015 Septmber Lofepramine 70mg 2016 May Lofepramine 70mg (Liquid to reduce off) 2016 Dec Zopiclone (to aid short term insomnia)

2017 August Amitriptyline 10mg 2016 October Venlafaxine 37.5  rising to 225mg January 2018  2018 January Sertraline 50mg rising to 150mg

2021 January Sertraline 125mg/150mg alternate days (GP advise ... Started micro taper and found this website....2021 May 100mg daily  2021 September 95mg daily

 

 

 

 

Link to post
8 hours ago, dA2021 said:

I am new here. So just dipping my toe in.

 

I was scared to join to read how others are but something I wanted to do and desperately needed to do.

 

Lockdown had not really changed much for me and my mental health. I was working from home then found out my brother had taken his own life. I had already started to reduce 10% every four weeks and all of a sudden a massive 'wave' this last week. I felt I could of seen it coming and prevented it but apparently this is healing..... But how do we know when we we regain functioning again?. Who knows when I'll feel me again. It's likes having two heads on these medications, awful.

 

 

 

I am hoping we will all survive this that's why I've joined so I know it's not just me as it's a lonely place. I tried listening to the news but I can't even cope with that. Hearing about Afghanistan.... I'm a young woman, 44 with a 13 year old son. I have a job. I'm intelligent but this drug has made me feel stupid. I don't want to be in bed but I've got up, fed the cats, had a piece of toast and drank lots of water, had a bath and become exhausted again. That's my day schedule at the moment.

 

I had a two-week holiday and still got a massive deterioration after it. 

 

 

I guess I'm just going to use this forum to see how I can help myself over the years getting off psychiatric meds. I feel angry and cheated tbh by healthcare. Prescribers not helping pick up the pieces the drugs have caused.

 

If I'm honest, I wouldn't spend too much time on the forum... I've found disheartening reading a lot of posts on here. Might work for some but not for everyone so if you feel like you're getting the same feeling I had then it may be worth taking a step back and assessing if it's really helpful or not.

 

I would recommend reading some of the ressources on tapering, on windows and waves etc which are interesting - but reading about people who are struggling every day for years wasn't helpful to me. Take things as they come: for all you know you might feel normal in a few months time.

-July 2019: 300mg Lyrica

-November 2019: 50mg Amitriptyline, upped to 100mg in December

-Jan 2020: down to 50mg Amitriptyline

-March 2020: stopped Lyrica successfully.

-May-June 2020: taper down to 0 AMT

-July 2020: back on 50mg AMT

-Dec 2020: 37.5mg AMT

early Jan 2021: 31.25mg AMT

Late Jan 2021: 25mg AMT

March 2021: back to 50mg AMT

Late April 2021: 75mg AMT

Link to post

Thank you I really appreciate that and it's good to know other members have different perspectives. 

 

I think when you are in the depths of it you are looking for any possible hope and support.

2013 Citalopram 50mg  2014 February Sertraline 50mg 2014 September Fluoxitine 20mg 2015 May Fluoxitine 20mg (Liquid to reduce off)

2015 Septmber Lofepramine 70mg 2016 May Lofepramine 70mg (Liquid to reduce off) 2016 Dec Zopiclone (to aid short term insomnia)

2017 August Amitriptyline 10mg 2016 October Venlafaxine 37.5  rising to 225mg January 2018  2018 January Sertraline 50mg rising to 150mg

2021 January Sertraline 125mg/150mg alternate days (GP advise ... Started micro taper and found this website....2021 May 100mg daily  2021 September 95mg daily

 

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 8/18/2021 at 12:56 PM, HugHK said:

 

 

Yep - keeping hope is the hardest bit of all, yet absolutely necessary for healing.

 

I have a scientific background in maths and physics, and Einstein (who is basically a God for me for what he has accomplished for humans and science) said: 'insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results'. To me this sounds very familiar with what we are all doing: sticking to a healthy diet every day, hoping to feel better tomorrow than we did today / a month ago / 6 months ago. 

 

I guess my motivation lies in the fact that I don't have a choice. Losing hope and giving up on life would mean becoming depressed and would essentially ruin all chances of actually getting better. The symptoms are bad, but wallowing in depressing thoughts would make the bad days even worse, and would annihilate your chances of enjoying any of the brief windows. Accepting that symptoms follow a chaotic pattern (rather than any logic) but that you will eventually feel normal at some point in time means that at one point, you will be going through a wave that will be the very last wave. You have absolutely no way of knowing when this will be or even that you are in this last wave when you're in it - but it's a fact nonetheless. In that sense, you can try and tell yourself that every wave you go through brings you closer to the end of the withdrawal.

 

That said, speaking to my therapist made me realise that for me, being too hopeful can be detrimental. The reason is simply: every time I have a window of feeling slightly better, I inevitably start thinking about getting my normal life back: perhaps I'll be able to exercise in a few weeks, or go to my friend's birthday next month... I think this is not helpful, because it means when the inevitable wave surges and sweeps the carpet from under my feet, I end up feeling really down again. Instead I think it's better to stay hopeful with the end goal (you will be feeling normal one day, even if it's in three years), but not tom get enthusiastic for each window of feeling better: make the most of it and be ready for anything the next day.

 

In terms of hardship, there are many things which make these withdrawals harder than anything else:

 

The worst of all is the windows and waves pattern. Everything else I've ever had (chronic gastritis, chronic insomnia, mental pain / grief from losing my mum) always goes away either linearly, or in 'steps' (feel awful for a period of time then suddenly over a week or two things improved, stay at that new level for some weeks and then improve to a better level, etc until I'm back to normal. This time, I've had a few series of days where I almost felt normal again, and I had this awesome feeling that I'd won - what a battle that had been! And yet I must be in my tenth wave by now (almost 7 months in).

 

Another one is the chaotic nature of the symptoms, as in opposed to any rational aspect. Intense Exercising is an obvious trigger for me but aside from that, there is no rule to my symptoms. I can go to bed feeling amazing, sleep well and wake up feeling awful. I can wake up feeling awful and feel better in the afternoon. I can even feel fine, take a 15min nap and wake up feeling terrible for the rest of the day. It's totally unpredictable there is no logic to it. There is also no logic to why it happened in the first place (I withdrew from this med before and went back on without too many issues). Totally irrational things tend to annoy me very much (I actually find correlations for a living in fact...)

 

In terms of things that help me and may help you:

 

1/ finding things that you had not necessarily been exposed to before (or not too much) but that you really like. For me I'm lucky in that my memory / energy / ability to think are not impacted so I am getting educated on climate change, reading a lot of history books, and looking into a range of things. 

 

2/ Some techniques learnt in therapy. Repeating to myself and writing down positive affirmations when I feel down. Writing a diary also helps to see marginal progress over the weeks. Picturing a little devil crossing some wires in my brain just for the sake of annoying me also helps to take a step back from what is going on. Groundin exercises if you are overwhelmed by your negative thoughts. Simple enough but takes time to learn how to use them.

 

3/ Learning about history and what our ancestors dealt with really puts things into perspective. My nan lost 3 siblings and her dad in the space of 1 month to typhoid fever during WW2. That's bad. In my current book, the plot is set in a Japanese POW camp during WW2, where 14 in every 15 people died, and the main character spends three of what should be the best years of his life in there (24-27 YO). That's really, really bad. It doesn't make my symptoms go away, but it does make me gain some perspective on how things are now vs what some people have lived through!

 

As a final word I'd say: you need to find what works best for you. you can get some ideas from this forum, but I wouldn't spend too much time on it if I'm honest: I haven't been on here in about 6 weeks I reckon, as reading half tainted success stories or that took 3 years isn't actually good for my mental health. 

 

Good luck to you, hope you get better soon

The thing is Hugo.  We are all suffering and trying to undo everything. Because I would say that alot of us, before we went on any drug, not just the withdrawal,  everything that we did before we did flawlessly. I remember as a teenager with anxiety I didn't overthink or ruminate with things. A good existence has to be where we are not interupted in a way that it clouds our brains.  That's why alot of people who try an anti depressant, stop taking them straight away. They realise they feel different in some way. 

 

I should of listened to my thought in my head a year after having venlafaxine.

 

" I would prefer to have my normal anxiety feelings than how I'm feeling now". 

 

Says alot really. 

 

Maybe the people you know have had success with the "drugs" and you believe in the positive things but for alot of us, things are very different. Personally you sound quite arrogant and sound like you don't champion vulnerable people's struggles.

 

And forgot neuro transmitters etc, most drugs in my opinion are designed to shut your system down. Hence the word "numbness". 

 

 

Social Anxiety diagnosis at root.

 

Born. 1983.

 

2001 - 2003  olanzapine and risperidone. 

 

2003 - 2007 Seroxat and prophanol. Cold turkey. Went on venlafaxine straight after.

 

2008- 2014. Venlafaxine. 6 month taper, crushing tablets powder form.

 

end 2014 - present. No meds.

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  • Mentor
16 hours ago, Darren said:

I should of listened to my thought in my head a year after having venlafaxine.

 

" I would prefer to have my normal anxiety feelings than how I'm feeling now". 

 

Says alot really. 

 

Maybe the people you know have had success with the "drugs" and you believe in the positive things but for alot of us, things are very different. Personally you sound quite arrogant and sound like you don't champion vulnerable people's struggles.

 

I think @HugHK Post was well done.

I do not think any of it was arrogant at all but showed a maturity and acceptance of the long term process at which you have yet to arrive.

 

There are also cultural differences with our members, as people from all over the world share what they have learned.

But I think your comment, Darren, is more out a particular generational view than You are actually able to "undo" and go back to the past.

That is impossible for any of us, all we can do is go forward, trying to "go back" or "undo" everything is not productive or realistic.

 

What you don't like about HugHK's post is that it makes you face the truth of that head on.

That there is no going back to the you that you once were, and you have yet to come to acceptance with the truth of that.

 

In the end, Everyone is able to take or leave whatever benefit they find here.

We do not expect everyone to see eye to eye, but we do expect members to be polite and not throw aspersions on other members character.

 

@Darren

The only one sounding arrogant in this exchange was you. That it is coming from your pain and grief is to somewhat understandable, but that does not give you the right to strike out at other members who have moved further along the path of acceptance and maturity than yourself. If you are unable to interact respectfully in your grief, than please do not post in the general forums.

 

 

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs  8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/29/21: 0.20mgs

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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  • Mentor
On 8/18/2021 at 7:56 AM, HugHK said:

3/ Learning about history and what our ancestors dealt with really puts things into perspective. My nan lost 3 siblings and her dad in the space of 1 month to typhoid fever during WW2. That's bad. In my current book, the plot is set in a Japanese POW camp during WW2, where 14 in every 15 people died, and the main character spends three of what should be the best years of his life in there (24-27 YO). That's really, really bad. It doesn't make my symptoms go away, but it does make me gain some perspective on how things are now vs what some people have lived through!

 

This is really a great help for Me as well. There is a younger generation, up to the age of 35 to 40 years old that has grown up in a society of instant gratification and quick fixes to problems. As we know, there is none for WD or adverse reactions. So while this forum is great for a lot of things, there are certain members who, based on their posts over time, are only making themselves worse by spending too much time here in an unhealthy manner instead of accepting the long term nature of the issue and doing their best to move forward.  I think looking back to how Our Ancestors survived years of hardship and how they lived in general is just as beneficial to modern coping mechanisms.

 

My Grandfather was born in the mid 1880's and my Father during the great depression. But I know people my age who's parents were born in 1950's and grandparents in the 1930's.  As a result, they have less, what I call, "Intergenerational Memory" to fall back on when times are tough.  When you come from very "short" generations, (20 year olds having children in their 20's, etc.,) the history is very thin. But if a man has a child in His mid 40's, and that child has a child in his mid 40's, etc., the Intergenerational memory that is past on is quite significant, and with that comes a greater ability to problem solve for oneself and to get through life knowing just how close you are to your own ancestors who suffered much more than you for their entire lives.

 

The average younger person in a first world country doesn't have the emotional maturity someone from other parts of the world does and it is based on intergenerational societal wealth where most people for the past 80 years live lives of ease:  running water, heat, food readily available, etc. All things taken for granted that up until the very recent past, Our ancestors labored daily just to actually survive. 

 

I think some part of the Existential depression so prevalent today comes from just that, people having it so good for so long, they make mountains out of molehills and over react.  Until the day comes that true suffering hits them, and they realize how good they had it for so long.

 

Anyway, great post.

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs  8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/29/21: 0.20mgs

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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Fair enough.  Still think though some of us have been affected by taking medication over the years and are trying to live a more flawless way of living. Ask any methadone user, and they will tell you they are not themselves. They want rid, heroin has just been replaced. I'm trying to work out whats gone wrong and I've kinda worked out how I should feel, and how to be fresh. For me, I think the withdrawal or use has stayed with me, and it affects my mojo, living on my own. It's not nice when your house becomes a thereatining place to reside, read below.

 

To get me back fresher, is to move out and live with someone else. But it's easier said than done. If you read my journal readings I'm trying to find home" for a sense of belonging and healing. Like I say I developed bad OCD while on venlafaxine and it seems to be less intrusive in a comfortable environment, home environment without meds.

 

I never faced the truth 20 years ago and went on mind altering drugs. Everything then got mangled and mixed up. Being off the venlafaxine 6.5 years and was on them 6.5 years. It is now where it's even, but I know now what I need to change. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Social Anxiety diagnosis at root.

 

Born. 1983.

 

2001 - 2003  olanzapine and risperidone. 

 

2003 - 2007 Seroxat and prophanol. Cold turkey. Went on venlafaxine straight after.

 

2008- 2014. Venlafaxine. 6 month taper, crushing tablets powder form.

 

end 2014 - present. No meds.

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  • Mentor
1 hour ago, Darren said:

Still think though some of us have been affected by taking medication over the years

 

Yes, I agree that we are all affected and that can last much longer than doctors or other people think it should.  At some point, like yourself, we all look back and try to find a way to place ourselves in a different drug free reality. It's difficult, no doubt about it, especially since we have no way of knowing where we would be if we had not been drugged.

 

Notice I said where we "would be", not "should be".  The "should be" game can come with a lot of guilt and unreasonable assumptions for ourselves. People can make their state worse by assuming "surely if" they had not been drugged, legal or not, things would have been a certain way and better for them. 

 

I think the truth is that, we really don't know HOW we would be viewing ourselves in the middle of the process. Some people in the long run could actually be worse. I say that not to advocate taking drugs but as part of the realization that the suffering that comes with problems that have no easy way out actually force the truth of a person to come to the top and reveal their true nature.

 

Like any major suffering, drug withdrawals and adverse reactions force people to deal with the truth of themselves. It can make people either more compassionate and loving to others, or more selfish and angry, blaming everyone and the world and even God Himself for all their problems.

 

For some people it's a longer process to come to the end of themselves and their shock and anger, who they really are, what their true problems are, and how much of themselves is their own worst enemy. In the end, regardless of the nature of the intense suffering or life changing event, the true self is revealed, and also who we choose to make of Ourselves going forward.

 

  To be honest I think that is the biggest hurdle for so many that delays their healing, their individual response to the trial and tribulation, and not the particulars. We have members who, after years, still cannot get past and or accept the same issues they were astonished about when they first became ill.

 

"I only took 3 dosages over 2 days." 

"I only took a "small dose" for 4 months". 

"It's been a year and I'm still so sick."

 

In many ways their still in shock, still caught in a moment of time and not able to move forward by acceptance because they are stuck in a paradigm of what should or should not have been. So while it is good to try to reorient ourselves back into some sort of normalcy in a drug free paradigm, just remember to be gentle with yourself and not force yourself into a pre conceived notion of what your life "should" look like.  Many times those preconceived notions come from a place or a societal way of thinking that is just as abusive or as abnormal as what brought people into a medicated state to begin with.

 

For people medicated so young while still in their adolescent brain that journey is even more complex than someone who was not medicated until well into adulthood and who have had more time to experience life as an adult before the drug trauma. The irony though is it seems those drugged later seem to be the ones who have a harder time with acceptance.

 

It comes as a great psychological shock to them when their world falls apart, even though one should only have to live to age 30 to see how life revolves so brutally for others on a regular basis. Those who experience major shock and trauma from an early age are in some ways, able to move past the shock of it quicker than those who's lives were fairly easy for so long.

 

It's what makes the withdrawal journey so different for each person, the drug is only half the problem.

The other half of the problem is the person's mindset.

 

Have a good weekend...

 

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs  8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/29/21: 0.20mgs

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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Thanks for writing. Yeah, I understand what you are saying. I don't know, all's I know  is that I'm struggling living in my own space. Maybe I've always struggled, well I have, but I never had this weird OCD with germs before 2008, the venlafaxine. My journey, your journey, others journeys,  all seeking.

 

All the best

Social Anxiety diagnosis at root.

 

Born. 1983.

 

2001 - 2003  olanzapine and risperidone. 

 

2003 - 2007 Seroxat and prophanol. Cold turkey. Went on venlafaxine straight after.

 

2008- 2014. Venlafaxine. 6 month taper, crushing tablets powder form.

 

end 2014 - present. No meds.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/17/2021 at 10:03 AM, Darren said:

The thing is Hugo.  We are all suffering and trying to undo everything. Because I would say that alot of us, before we went on any drug, not just the withdrawal,  everything that we did before we did flawlessly. I remember as a teenager with anxiety I didn't overthink or ruminate with things. A good existence has to be where we are not interupted in a way that it clouds our brains.  That's why alot of people who try an anti depressant, stop taking them straight away. They realise they feel different in some way. 

 

I should of listened to my thought in my head a year after having venlafaxine.

 

" I would prefer to have my normal anxiety feelings than how I'm feeling now". 

 

Says alot really. 

 

Maybe the people you know have had success with the "drugs" and you believe in the positive things but for alot of us, things are very different. Personally you sound quite arrogant and sound like you don't champion vulnerable people's struggles.

 

And forgot neuro transmitters etc, most drugs in my opinion are designed to shut your system down. Hence the word "numbness". 

 

 

 

Hey sorry haven't been on here in while. Hope you're doing a bit better,

 

I didn't mean for any of this to be arrogant, and to be clear it's just my opinion on the matter of withdrawal. Like everyone else I do what I can to cope, but as someone with a keen interest in philosophy and History, I try and put things into as much perspective as I can.

 

To be clear, this year has been no joke for me. Withdrawal swept the carpet from beneath my feet, I've cried and punched walls and complained and it's been the worst year of my life. It's far from over and I'm approaching the 8 month mark. 

 

But here's another way to view it: if this is to be the worst year of my life, which is possible (it certainly has been so far), when I compare it to what my ancestors will have gone through in their own lives (the wars, violent, unexpected, senseless loss of life in epidemics etc), my experience hardly compares to what people from older generations have gone through. 

 

Of course I have moments where I regret having taken my medication in the first place. But I did, and here I am, and there's nothing I or anyone else can do about this.

 

I did consider taking my doctor the cleaners (ie to court), but as my dad said 'it won't make you feel better'. In fact it would be a long, costly, time-consuming, energy-consuming battle. I'm still unsure on it but for now, I'm trying to come to terms with the fact it's not worth it. 

 

Let's keep in mind that this is just a temporary bad part of our lives, and that one day we'll look back on it and be glad and even proud we got through it. 

 

On 9/18/2021 at 3:30 AM, Colonial said:

I think some part of the Existential depression so prevalent today comes from just that, people having it so good for so long, they make mountains out of molehills and over react.  Until the day comes that true suffering hits them, and they realize how good they had it for so long.

 

I feel like I could write a book about this! Been giving it lots of thought, and speaking as a millennial, I think that people of my generation are obsessed with increasing comfort (as in opposed to happiness) and have lost sight of what real hardship is. It's a good thing that we don't need to experience senseless loss of life for entirely preventable reasons that our ancestors experienced. But it has meant a complete loss of perspective when it comes to the hardships of life. We constantly compare ourselves to people we know which are cruising through life feeling just fine. 

 

I now realise that I never appreciated enough how lucky I was to have lived a mostly great, healthy life up to the start of my withdrawal. Now I swear to myself I will love every single minute of the rest of my life once I am feeling better.

 

As for my 'arrogance', it's not for me to say, but I am happy to admit that I am quite proud of the progress I've made with accepting the current ordeal for what it is. It's been tough but I can actually see that my thinking has changed and it feels empowering. I hope other people get that feeling too, and hence, although I do not tell people what to think, I like to give people some ideas on things that helped me get there. I hope some will find it helpful, but, like I said in my previous post: each and every one of us needs to find what works for themselves.

 

Hope this clarifies a few things, and good luck to you!

 

-July 2019: 300mg Lyrica

-November 2019: 50mg Amitriptyline, upped to 100mg in December

-Jan 2020: down to 50mg Amitriptyline

-March 2020: stopped Lyrica successfully.

-May-June 2020: taper down to 0 AMT

-July 2020: back on 50mg AMT

-Dec 2020: 37.5mg AMT

early Jan 2021: 31.25mg AMT

Late Jan 2021: 25mg AMT

March 2021: back to 50mg AMT

Late April 2021: 75mg AMT

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  • Mentor
Colonial
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, HugHK said:

But here's another way to view it: if this is to be the worst year of my life, which is possible (it certainly has been so far), when I compare it to what my ancestors will have gone through in their own lives (the wars, violent, unexpected, senseless loss of life in epidemics etc), my experience hardly compares to what people from older generations have gone through. 

 

13 hours ago, HugHK said:

I think that people of my generation are obsessed with increasing comfort (as in opposed to happiness) and have lost sight of what real hardship is. It's a good thing that we don't need to experience senseless loss of life for entirely preventable reasons that our ancestors experienced. But it has meant a complete loss of perspective when it comes to the hardships of life. We constantly compare ourselves to people we know which are cruising through life feeling just fine. 

 

This is very well said. Many people have had it so good for so long, they have lost all perspective on what life was for Our Ancestors for thousands of years, nothing but toil, pain and a protect and survive mentality as 85% percent of their lives and outlook, with occasional hours or days of rest or enjoyment.  I have noticed how hard it is for younger people under 40 who have had "hover board" parents keeping them from every single suffering to have to deal with something so hard that there is no escape from. They simply have no personal coping skills on an EMOTIONAL level as smaller family size meant parents doing everything for them and shielding them from having to process real world repercussions of their mistakes.  They become overly anesthetized emotionally from over parenting-sheltering.

 

Then other members who are a little bit older but who were still lucky to have had a charmed life for the most part from being well off and chance going their way for so long, they are just as compromised in their lack of acceptance and traumatize themselves more in the non acceptance and "why me- I can't believe this happened from a few weeks of med" attitude. 

 

The true suffering comes not from the wd per se, but for not living in reality their whole lives of being prepared for tragedy to hit at the turn of a dime, and they waste their remaining hours mourning what they lost and comparing themselves to others around them instead of having a good mindset of: "I'm going to get better and enjoy and not take for granted what ever time I have left".  And your weren't arrogant at all, that's just the very emotional response that comes from someone still stuck in the non acceptance process looking at one who has and not knowing what a good attitude means.  Thanks for all of your posts, they are very done.  Enjoy the week.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Colonial

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs  8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/29/21: 0.20mgs

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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And the internet becomes a bad place. When I wrote that I was feeling crappy I think, probably because stuff wasn't going right. Lol. What you guys say is true, there is a bigger picture , I agree. 

 

Social Anxiety diagnosis at root.

 

Born. 1983.

 

2001 - 2003  olanzapine and risperidone. 

 

2003 - 2007 Seroxat and prophanol. Cold turkey. Went on venlafaxine straight after.

 

2008- 2014. Venlafaxine. 6 month taper, crushing tablets powder form.

 

end 2014 - present. No meds.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/6/2021 at 5:01 AM, Darren said:

And the internet becomes a bad place. When I wrote that I was feeling crappy I think, probably because stuff wasn't going right. Lol. What you guys say is true, there is a bigger picture , I agree. 

 

 

Hey I thought I'd provide some info which is both interesting and illustrates my point about putting our suffering in perspective vs what previous generations have endured.

 

Was reading yesterday about casualties from WW1 in France where I am from (ie The Great War as we call it in Europe), which illustrate what life must have been like a hundred years ago.

 

  • Out of the cohort of French men born in 1894 (ie, who were 20 when the war started in 1894), 22% had already died by 1914, illustrating the ravages of infectious diseases among children especially (TB, Typhoid, dysentery, measles etc). So there was a one in five chance you'd never make it to twenty back then
  • By the time the war ended, another 24% of the initial cohort had died, ie 1 in every 3 men of the age of twenty at the start of the war were killed in this senseless violence 
  • Another 20% of the initial cohort were permanently physically impaired: amputation of a limb, permanently blind from use of gas
  • Out of the war survivors, 20% came back with PTSD. around 75% of that cohort were sent to the war, so that's around 15% of the initial cohort

 

All in all, by 1919 when the 1894 cohort should have turned 25, 46% of French men born that year were dead, and around 35% permanently physically or mentally impaired (bear in mind there was no counselling or medications to deal with PTSD back then, and no acceptance of mental health issues in the general society

 

Note that I focus on statistics for men, but imagine the amount of grief families had to deal with back then...

 

A truly horrible time that isn't that far back, and that shows how our ancestors lived in a context of senseless premature loss of life for entire preventable causes...

 

We've come a long ways in the 75 years since WW2 ended, and that's something to be thankful about at least.

 

Another point on this:

 

I feel like what I found very frustrating about withdrawal is that it's something that happened to me because of someone else. If the GP and the psychiatrist had known about this medication and its potential for withdrawal, I probably would have been fine and wouldn't have lost a year of my life. I am only in y position today because I trusted people who entirely failed me. 

 

But then compare this with the above: in the name of dubious political causes (essentially the defence of empire borders at the time and in the name of military alliances), people were drafted and enrolled by force, and asked to run 200 yards at machine guns without cover or adequate military training prior to that... ie in my opinion, all this suffering was enforced on people by their governments, for nothing in the end, since the borders didn't change, and twenty years there was so much hatred and antagonism festering in Europe that we were all back at it killing each other. 

-July 2019: 300mg Lyrica

-November 2019: 50mg Amitriptyline, upped to 100mg in December

-Jan 2020: down to 50mg Amitriptyline

-March 2020: stopped Lyrica successfully.

-May-June 2020: taper down to 0 AMT

-July 2020: back on 50mg AMT

-Dec 2020: 37.5mg AMT

early Jan 2021: 31.25mg AMT

Late Jan 2021: 25mg AMT

March 2021: back to 50mg AMT

Late April 2021: 75mg AMT

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Everything that's spoken about is true. Definitely a different mentality then. I'm fine, I'm not blaming anyone. Read my posts, I'm trying to find a home".  

 

R.IP to the fallen soldiers of the world. Peace out

Social Anxiety diagnosis at root.

 

Born. 1983.

 

2001 - 2003  olanzapine and risperidone. 

 

2003 - 2007 Seroxat and prophanol. Cold turkey. Went on venlafaxine straight after.

 

2008- 2014. Venlafaxine. 6 month taper, crushing tablets powder form.

 

end 2014 - present. No meds.

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