Leland: Hello! Panic Attacks and Prozac taper gone awry

[ChessieCat]

I understand your eagerness to get off the drug; been there, done that.  However it has nothing to do with how strong or determined you are as a person.  It depends on your brain.  I think understanding that helps us to be more patient and relaxed about the process, which means that you will not be as stressed and anxious which allows the brain to recover, because it is not having its attention diverted to coping with the stress/anxiety which it sees as something threatening your safety and therefore works at keeping you alive.  The brain cannot keep you safe from a threat and work on the recovery process at the same time.

[conkaia]

15 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

It depends on your brain.  I think understanding that helps us to be more patient and relaxed about the process, which means that you will not be as stressed and anxious which allows the brain to recover, because it is not having its attention diverted to coping with the stress/anxiety which it sees as something threatening your safety and therefore works at keeping you alive.  The brain cannot keep you safe from a threat and work on the recovery process at the same time.

This makes sense thanks.  I'm currently in a wave of doom following a stressful situation over the weekend.  It helps me to understand the process behind this.

[Altostrata]

@Leland, how old is your Prozac liquid?

[Leland]

7 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

@Leland, how old is your Prozac liquid?

Pretty new, picked up a new batch about 3 weeks ago

[Altostrata]

Your prior bottle of Prozac liquid was how old? Did you start the new bottle at the same time you changed your technique to 2 syringes?

[Leland]

Before, I had been getting the 240 ML bottle, so those lasted about 6-8 weeks. I got the most recent bottle (120 ML) about a week before Halloween. Which was about 10 days before making the switch to two syringes. The newest bottle I got was the same solution from the same pharmacy I normally go to, in Berkeley. 

[Altostrata]

It sounds like there was variation between the 2 bottles. It would take about 10 days before you might feel this. Were both bottles of fluoxetine liquid from the same manufacturer? Were these both compounded by the pharmacy? (Liquid fluoxetine is available pre-packaged, by prescription.)

 

What was the change in your symptom pattern between the 2 bottles?

[Leland]

Oh interesting! I figured it was due to the change to 2 syringes, and a drop of .05 mg, but that's certainly possible. I want to be sure I account for everything. 

 

I've always gone to the same manufacturer, both compounded by the same pharmacy. Have been going there since August 2021 with no withdrawal symptoms outside of my drops in dosage. 

 

My symptoms started last Wednesday, and they were tension, restlessness, anxiety, DPDR, and headaches. Luckily the last couple of days my symptoms have really calmed down, so hopefully this means I'm stabilizing. Or entering a window. 

[Leland]

Hello all, 

 

A few updates. 

 

At the end of December 2022, on two syringes measuring 4 MG, I decided to start a slow taper. I started by dropping .01 mg every three days. 5 days after my first drop, now down to 3.98, I started noticing withdrawal symptoms. I remember having lots of sugar that day. As I continued tapering, I got to 3.95 and felt dissociation, tension, headaches, and my usual withdrawal symptoms. I decided to keep tapering since, to me, I was going so slow that it was safe. Continued eating sugar. At the end of December, indeed on New Years Eve, I had a very bad day with many withdrawal symptoms. I then got anxious about my symptoms, and my symptoms got worse. I didn't sleep that, every nerve cut like a knife. So, I reinstated to 4 MG. 

 

Still on two syringes, I stayed on 4 MG through the rest of winter. I dealt with several difficult factors during that time: my cat getting sick and passing away, consistent gray and stormy weather keeping me in the house, and running out of medicine for 4 days and having to use the 4x stronger 4 ML to 1 MG medicine, before I got my regular 1-1 back. Without being stable, I had some alcohol in february. I moved apartments that month. I was eating a lot of sugar, and occasional coffee. I did not feel good. 

 

Things were ok in March and April, but went bad again in May. I was anxious, withdrawn, and miserable. Nothing worked. I wasn't drinking alcohol or coffee, but I felt awful. 

 

So on May 19 I switched back to using 1 syringe. 4 MG. Immediately I felt better, although slightly overstimulated. I felt essentially all of my withdrawal symptoms ease. How was it possible that going from 2 syringes measuring 4 MG to 1 syringe measuring the same amount caused me to improve? I figured that I had to actually be getting more medicine with the one syringe. 

 

A week ago i travelled to Boston for vacation. Wasn't sleeping well. Wasn't stable, but feeling ok. I had 3 drinks at my cousin's wedding, and one more the next day. Lots of sugar. I felt awful the next two days. My feelings of over-stimulation came back, and my sleep degraded further. 

 

That brings us to today. My whole body is shaking, I shook all night in bed last night and hardly slept. This feels more like over-stimulation (kindling) than withdrawal, but I'm certain that drinking alcohol contributed to this. It's hard for me to be disciplined about alcohol, coffee, and sugar, but I know that giving them up is my quickest path back to recovery. 

 

The lines on my syringe are relatively fat, and I had been playing around with pulling to the center of the 4 MG line, vs the top of the line. I don't know if details like that make an actual difference, or if I'm just causing myself more anxiety. 

 

In any case, I'd love your guidance. How can I return myself to stability, outside of giving up the obvious bad things like alcohol? I have an appointment to speak with a psychiatrist soon, but this board knows more about potential kindling/withdrawal than anyone else. 

 

Thanks!

[Leland]

Hey all, 

 

I have a quick question. Would it be preferable to use the same *exact* syringe everyday (to ensure accurate measurements), or is it sufficient to use syringes from the same manufacturer and the same box every few days. The reason I ask is that, I bought a box of BD 5 ML syringes, and they are easy to use and easy to measure. The issue is that, after 5 days they get stuck and basically unusable, so I have to use a new one (from the same box). There shouldn't be any differences in the syringes correct? They're from the same manufacturer, in the same packaging. I just want to be sure I'm taking the same dose each day. 

 

Thanks all. Been holding at 4 ML for awhile now, and trying to clear my physical symptoms of anxiety so I can continue tapering. 

 

Leland

[ThatOneGirlStitch]

If it is by the same company and is the exact same products from the same box then in theory there should not be a an issue. I would also want to use the exact same syringe. But better a usable product than a faulty one that might mess up your dose. This is just my opinion.

[Leland]

6 hours ago, ThatOneGirlStitch said:

If it is by the same company and is the exact same products from the same box then in theory there should not be a an issue. I would also want to use the exact same syringe. But better a usable product than a faulty one that might mess up your dose. This is just my opinion.

That makes sense, thanks. I think the key is to not push each syringe past its useful date, because then the rubber measure inside gets warped. Each syringe in this box is smooth and easy to use at least through 3 days, so that can be the timeline to open a new syringe. 

[Leland]

Hey all, 

 

Not sure what to do. Switched syringes back around January 15. Still measuring 4 ml exactly to the line everytime. 5 days later started showing symptoms of withdrawal. Since then, gradually, my symptoms have become worse and worse, to now it feels like my nerves are on fire. 

 

How can this happen? I only switched syringes to the same dose, and if anything my new syringes are EASIER to measure. They do, however, only last 3 days. 

 

I'm on a few supplements that might be agitating. I take 1 capsule fish oil, 1 multivitamin, 1 capsule B12, 480 mg of magnesium. 2000 mg of NAC, and 4 capsules of Inositol. 

 

I have no idea what's causing my symptoms. Even if there was a drop in amount between 2 syringes, measured at the same amount (don't know why there would be) I've been taking the new syringe everyday the same way for almost 8 weeks. How have my symptoms gradually been getting worse during that time? 

 

I'm going to pause the fish oil, since that has been activating for me in the past. If that doesn't work, I might return to my old syringes, which were harder to measure but I felt much better while using them. 

 

Anyway I know that's a lot. I'm happy to answer any questions. I'd appreciate a response please, thank you!