Clomiwithdrawal: Clomipramine withdrawal, cause of extreme OCS?

[Clomiwithdrawal]

Hello all,

 

I'm Marco, hitting 50, and live in the Netherlands and lurking for some time now.

 

I know its usually about SSRI, but maybe u can help me with some advise.

 

I was set on Clomipramine back in the early 90s cause of anxiety to go outside. Had a real tough childhood wich i spend lots, lots of times in hospital for surgeries and many inflamations of a huge (non deadly) tumor on the lymphs. So i was bound to get anxiety i guess.

 

Around 1993 it hit me hard, and i was put on Clomipramine wich worked great! Tapered of every couple of years to a maintanance-dose of 10mg.

But...was getting more and more sideeffects during the years. Restless legs, burnung legs, bruxism wich costs me some theeth and the biggest concern, my heart. I have heartissues and a new aortavalve and parrtly aorta and suddenly it started skipping beats, In the end it skipped beats 4000! times even on B-blockers every 24 hrs measured by the cardiologist who advised me at some point to try to quit, and increased the B-blockers to get my heart at a bit better rate. So getting of them seemed a logical step cause hey, how much will 10mg do to my anxiety?  I do and go everywhere without any form of anxiety.

Tried one cold turkey from 10mg wich went well for 4 months before the withddrawal hit me hard and i was put back on and was feeling great again within 4 days! So was bound to try again within a few years.

 

Sine i really had totally no anxiety at all i assumed, since i has such a low dose, it would be fine to quit and taking a long time to do it. I used 10mg retard pills wich i churgically made smaller every couple of weeks for almost two years. At the time i was around 1mg i noticed i was getting some tingeling in my right cheeck and in the morning a very soft beep in the right ear and some strange behaviour wich could only be OCS. Since i know i had a bit of OCS in my early childhood (around 10 years old) i knew it was better for me to taper up again. But....at that time my pills run out and when ordered new ones i heard the factory (sandoz) stopped making this dose. I got 25mg from another brand (Mylan). So i get those, and with a microscale brought the dose to 2mg for start. What happend was for me never expected. I got a horn in my head so loud, i barely could hear people talking. After three days i quit the medication since i was already on 1mg for a while without issues and the whistle in my head disappeared.

 

I felt bad after couple of days, real bad. Couldnt walk, high breathin when walking, totally derealisation, my head was a mess.

This lasted for about two weeks and it started to clear up.

 

Then the Tinnitus kicked in, extremely schratchy wich hurt. I leved trough it with white noise on my earplugs It came and went for three months and finally faded out. Wat was left was noises, beeps, etc. whenever it feels like it. Had days with, and days without tinnitus and this still continues after.

 

I immidiately contacted my GP when i quit, and asked for help during the withdrawal. So i got an pschycologist and psychiatrist to help me get trough this period.

 

The problem is, the OCS has gone way over the top, and i mean really over the top. I cant even watch tv without seeing something that has to be re-seen again with for example my eye not blinking at certain scenes or whatever strange issue that comes up. Its really madness, going to the toilet can take ages cause i have to step from carpet to wooden floor whilst thinking of an image and not any other, then into bathroom, doing your thing but has to have that image in mind, tapping doorknobs, stepping over lines with certain toughts, etc.etc. Every move i make is that way. It has to stop.

 

Since the OCS is really affecting my family and me going outdoors they want me back on medication (citalopram, cause of the bad experience with taper up for couple of days).

 

I cant figure it out. Should i go back on medication, cause i cant control the OCS anymore. But... what will it do to my head, y tinnitus. I'm so frekking scared it will go trough the roof when taking the medication. Anyone who had the same issues with the tinnitus and going back on medication? Did it worsen, wat did it do for u?

 

And, i was in the select group for an early vaccine, still i havent got it for the same reason, so scared it will affect my fluctuating tinnitus in my head..will it affect my receptors wich seem like still doing ups and downs after so many years of medication?

 

Im really looking for some stories or advice from someone who had somewhat the same issues with tinnitus when going back on and what to do on the vaccine. Cause if it goes back to those three days i tried to taper up the clomipramine is unbearable.

 

Thanks for reading and if u have any, your help or story.

 

Medication:

Atorvastatine 80mg  (quited one month into total withdrawal cause of tinnitus side-effects)

Esomeprazol 20mg  (quited one month into total withdrawal cause of tinnitus side-effects)

Bisoprolol 2,5mg ( not tapered this one yet without consent of cardiologist)

Acenocoumarol

Tramadol 50 retard 1 a day, painmedication. (tapering the marbles every week one at the time, 16 marbles off now) Use to be 6-7 pills a day.

 

 

 

 

 

[Clomiwithdrawal]

Hello all,

 

 

I'm Marco, hitting 50, and live in the Netherlands and lurking for some time now.

 

 

I know its usually about SSRI, but maybe u can help me with some advise.

 

 

I was set on Clomipramine back in the early 90s cause of anxiety of going outside. Had a real tough childhood wich i spend lots, lots of times in hospital for surgeries and many inflamations of a huge (non deadly) tumor on the lymphs. So i was bound to get anxiety i guess.

 

 

Around 1993 it hit me hard, and i was put on Clomipramine wich worked great! Tapered of every couple of years to a maintanance-dose of 10mg.

 

But...was getting more and more sideeffects during the years. Restless legs, burning legs, bruxism wich costs me some theeth and the biggest concern, my heart. I have heartissues and a new aortavalve and partly replaced aorta and suddenly it started skipping beats, In the end it skipped beats 4000! times even on B-blockers every 24 hrs measured by the cardiologist who advised me at some point to try to quit the AD, and increased the B-blockers to get my heart skip less. So getting of them seemed a logical step cause hey, how much will 10mg do to my anxiety? I do and go everywhere without any form of anxiety. Only scared of flying, but i do that anyways.

 

Tried one cold turkey from 10mg wich went well for 4 months before the withddrawal hit me hard and i was put back on and was feeling great again within 4 days! So was bound to try again within a few years.

 

 

Since i really had totally no anxiety at all i assumed, since i has such a low dose, it would be fine to quit if i take a long time to do it. I used 10mg retard pills wich i churgically made smaller every couple of weeks/months for almost two years. At the time i was around 1mg i noticed i was getting some tingeling in my right cheeck and in the morning a very soft beep in the right ear and some strange behaviour wich could only be OCS. Since i know i had a bit of OCS in my early childhood (around 10 years old) i knew it was better for me to taper up again. But....at that time my pills run out and when ordered new ones i heard the factory (sandoz) stopped making this dose. so i got 25mg from another brand (Mylan) from the pharmacist after i called all others in nearby cities if they had the old ones. So i get those, and with a microscale brought the dose to 3mg to taper up. What happend was for me never expected. I got a horn in my head so loud, i barely could hear people talking. After three days i quit the medication since i was already on 1mg for a while and the whistle in my head disappeared.

 

 

I felt bad after couple of days, real bad. Couldnt walk, high breathin when walking, totally derealisation, my head was a mess.

This lasted for about two weeks and it started to clear up a bit, i still have the derealisation tho.

 

 

Then the Tinnitus kicked in, extremely schratchy wich also hurt. I lived trough it with white noise on my earplugs. It came and went for three months and finally faded out. Wat was left was noises, beeps, etc. whenever it feels like it. Had days with, and days without tinnitus and this still continues after.

 

 

I immidiately contacted my GP when i quit, and asked for help during the withdrawal. So i got an pschycologist and psychiatrist to help me get trough this period. But all they want to do is get me on SSRI.

 

The problem is, the OCS has gone way over the top, and i mean really over the top. I cant even watch tv without seeing something that has to be re-seen again with for example my eye not blinking at certain scenes or whatever strange issue that comes up. Its really madness, going to the toilet can take ages cause i have to step from carpet to wooden floor whilst thinking of an certain image and not any other, then into bathroom, doing your thing but has to have that image in mind, tapping doorknobs, stepping over lines with certain toughts, etc.etc. Every move i make is that way. It has to stop. Could this be a withdrawal-issue also? Will it face like my anxiety and derealisation?

 

 

Since the OCS is really affecting my family and me going outdoors they want me back on medication (citalopram, cause of the bad experience with taper up clomipramine for couple of days).

 

 

I cant figure it out. Should i go back on medication, cause i cant control the OCS anymore. But... what will it do to my head, y tinnitus. I'm so frekking scared it will go trough the roof when taking the medication. Anyone who had the same issues with the tinnitus and going back on medication? Did it worsen, wat did it do for u?

 

 

And, i was in the select group for an early vaccine, still i havent got it for the same reason, so scared it will affect my fluctuating tinnitus in my head..will it affect my receptors wich seem like still doing ups and downs after so many years of medication?

 

 

Im really looking for some stories or advice from someone who had somewhat the same issues with tinnitus when going back on and what to do on the vaccine. Cause if it goes back to those three days i tried to taper up the clomipramine is unbearable.

 

 

Thanks for reading and if u have any, your help or story.

 

 

Medication:

Atorvastatine 80mg (quited one month into total withdrawal cause of tinnitus side-effects)

Esomeprazol 20mg (quited one month into total withdrawal cause of tinnitus side-effects)

Bisoprolol 2,5mg ( not tapered this one yet without consent of cardiologist)

Acenocoumarol

Tramadol 50 retard 1 a day, painmedication. (tapering the marbles every week one at the time, 16 marbles off now) Use to be 6-7 pills a day.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @Clomiwithdrawal

 

Why do you refer to an SSRI in your title?

 

When was your last dose of clomipramine? This is what happened after you quit?

On 9/3/2021 at 6:22 AM, Clomiwithdrawal said:

I felt bad after couple of days, real bad. Couldnt walk, high breathin when walking, totally derealisation, my head was a mess.

This lasted for about two weeks and it started to clear up.

 

Then the Tinnitus kicked in, extremely schratchy wich hurt. I leved trough it with white noise on my earplugs It came and went for three months and finally faded out. Wat was left was noises, beeps, etc. whenever it feels like it. Had days with, and days without tinnitus and this still continues after.

 

Were you also tapering tramadol at the same time? When did you last reduce tramadol? What effects do you feel after a reduction of tramadol?

 

How has your sleep pattern changed in the last 3 months?

 

On 9/3/2021 at 1:00 PM, Clomiwithdrawal said:

I immidiately contacted my GP when i quit, and asked for help during the withdrawal. So i got an pschycologist and psychiatrist to help me get trough this period. But all they want to do is get me on SSRI.

 

I understand this OCS (we'd call it OCD in the US) is a long-standing tendency? How has your psychologist helped you manage it?

 

We cannot advise you on treatment for OCS, we don't treat OCS here. However, people do learn ways to manage it without drugs.

[Clomiwithdrawal]

 

Thanks for your answer.

I referred to SSRI in the title cause i was on a TCA and it seems there arnt much TCA WD-ers here? Anyways, i dont mean anything by it. They want me on citalopram for my OCD now, only then they want to help me with threatment for the OCD.

My last dose was in the last week of may. Thee last tree days of the medication i was on 5mg when i tried to taper up for 1 1/2 weeks from 1mg to 5mg cause i noticed OCD coming up but then the tinnitus, a horn wich was extremly loud, kicked in and i quit taking clomipramine after 3 days on the new brand. Its very hard to taper when u get a new brand and dose to work with whilst trying to stabilize and taper up a bit right at that time. I tapered up for a week with the "old" pills before i run out and got the new brand and dose. It shouldnt be to much? When i started back then i started at 75mg.

I wasnt really tapering tramadol at that time, i was stable on a 50mg retard once a day dose with 10 marbles removed a day for some time at that moment. I did tapered further after the WD cause i didnt knew it could affect eaxhother till i found this forum. i'm on 17 marbles, but staying there for now. Also cause i dont want the pain to come back, i dont need to have that together with the WD symptoms now.

I dont feel any different when i taper down tramadol with a marble at a time. Never did. Only when i tried to go from 100 to 50 a day in one step couple years ago, i got restless legs and  feeling of ants running under your skin in the arms for 4 days, but not when taper it marble-wise.

My sleep still stays about the same, 8-9 hrs. I might wake up sometimes at night, but i didnt really loose any sleep. In the beginning of quiting i sometimes woke up sweating and in anxiety/panic, and totally maybe 2 or 3 days i couldnt catch sleep right away over the whole period of not taking the AD.

I am very anxious to start any new medication for OCD, and also to take my vaccin cause of the idea my receptors might be still totally inflamed or something and cant handle the vaccin and trigger more tinnitus cause thats one of the symptons thats unstable till now.

 

I experience daily ups and downs in the tinnitus. I have a low electric-like noise all around my head, but multiple times a day a beep in the top of my head, drop of hearing in the right ear, beep in the right ear, and always had a low noise in my left ear wich doubles in intensity at times.

I think i can get back to around december when i had a rootcanal. around that period i starte noticing strange tingling in my right cheek, at my right upper jaw. Some time later i had a very low beep every morning in my right ear and later on it all came together and my right side of my face felt strange some times a day with loosing hearing and the feeling like someone hit u on the ear. I went to the dentist, to my doctor, and a therapist. non of them made the link with the tapering so neither did i. Later on, about two months ago when i found this forum, i saw it was a WD-symptom. Never had any idea this could be from the WD.

 

I do notice a upwards trend in my state. But its so hard to deal with it all and i just barely can handle it all. I get mostly physical symptoms.

Derealisation
dizzyness only few times
Low energylevel
Emotional
Burning legs, arms, face, mouth.
Tinnitus
Right face/ear feels numb, loss of hearing
pressure on my head
Bad sight, up close, and far
Aura from migrain, no headache.
And more i cant think of right now cause im in a bad state atm today.

 

I got the AD back in the day cause of anxiety, there's no trace of anxiety that i can find. I was afraid to go out the door, thats when i got them. But thats not an issue anymore. I go wherever i want to go without having any feelings about it before or during the trip.

The OCD i had was when i was about 10 years old, i washed my hands about 30 times a day and dint ate the part of the food i touched with my hands. I know i got off of it myself when i was sick of it and say "look mommy, i touch me sandwiche and eat it, i'm tired of this". It was over right then and there. Later on i had some minor issues of touching things extra time and switching the lights tree times, but nothing really serious. It wasnt even mentoined when i was at the therapist back then. So where the extreme version at wich im even locked indoors because of it, came since i tapered, i have no idea! I guess its been inside my head always, and bursted out now.  Like mentioned in my first post, my therapist will only help me if i take the medication. I really dont want to take new AD yet. All i will take them for then is the OCD, not for anxiety. I dont want it only for OCD. So i'm already on a waitinglist at another practice where they might be willing to help me without demanding medication.

 

Im especially worried about the tinnitus and taking the vaccin. Im really scared cause i know it can cause tinnitus and since its a non stable factor at the moment, friday i woke up with barely any tinnitus at all, and the next day i wake up with a beep, im really not eager to get the vaccin.

Same for getting back on AD like they want me too for the OCD. I tapered up, and i got the tinnitus,  It was extreme. So thats a huge part thats keeping me from getting on AD again, it scared me for any new medication. And i just dont want too, i know that i had some good dayparts where i felt like before the withdrawal.

I really like to find any advise or experiences that will advise and/or motivate me to keep this up and keep fighting cause i have a family living here too. And, like u all know, its hard for them too!

 

[Altostrata]

I cannot tell you if reinstating clomipramine would resolve the tinnitus or make it worse. If tinnitus is your most prominent withdrawal symptom, you may not want to risk another antidepressant.

 

The tinnitus may be related to tramadol. You will need to observe it each day and see if peaks and valleys in the symptom correspond in any way to your tramadol schedule.

 

In my opinion, the covid-19 vaccine would be lower risk than taking another antidepressant. Of course, getting covid could make you a lot worse, and that is a higher risk than the vaccine.

[Clomiwithdrawal]

Thank u for your reply and help.

 

It just didnt felt right to get back on AD again just for OCD and not for the anxiety i experienced back then. Even when they tried to obligate me to take them before getting treatment. I had an intake due for this morning with another pshycologist and he sayed it almost certain i can be helped by  them without medication, wich, he said, will never be an abligation to get help with the OCD from them.

 

BTW, i forgot to mention, i have in my title "cause of extreme OCD"? The reason i typed that is that when i'm having a good daypart/some good hours the OCD seems very low, just barley some issues. I know u dont treat OCD here, but could it be my brain is 'triggering' this at bad times in some sort of chemical way? Seems almost logical to me.

 

The tramadol...

I didnt think of that one till two weeks ago when i found out it acts as an AD. I tought it was for pain only. My tinnitus has waves, but there are two spikes who seem to occur at the same time every day. Thank u for pointing it out. I'm gonna try to see if i can find a link between them by changing the time of intake. Will keep u posted about that.

On the other hand, since i found out the tramadol is acting somewhat like an AD i'm a bit scared of taping this of to 0 at this point. I have more moments of feeling good and i dont want to be set back or ingrease the tinnitus by tapering it ( to 0) now. Do u have epxerience with this kind of situation? What would be your advise? Lowering it some more by taping but not quit yet?

 

Experienced some minimal visual snow onesided today. First time. Rightside.

I am known with migrain wich can be a trigger for it? I only get the aura, no headache (maybe cause i was on AD?). I experienced it with headache in my childhood, but since then only the aura.

 

Vaccin:

Still not sure about it. Would love to see stories from people who have the same kind of spikes in their tinnitus and didnt trigger it. I know that too is personal, but it would strengten my believe in it. I dont know, the tinnitus feels so...electric. As if there's "still some work to be done" there, and i dont want to ruin that.

 

 

Thank u for the advise. It already have given me help and more hope. Stay safe!

 

[Clomiwithdrawal]

@Altostrata

 

I tried to pinpoint the tinnitusspikes with the tramadol. I cant figure out if its the tramadol, i only take once a day(59mg retard, minus 16 balls) and tried to take it at different times, but i cant see a significant difference.

I do have a huge difference in tinnitus when i take 3 marbles more in a capsule a day, the tinnitus is way less for a couple of hours and i feel more 'normal' during that time till the tramadol wears out.

 

Like i mentioned i try to taper tramadol too, but it now seems that lowering the daily dose triggers a increase in my physical overall feeling, restlessness and anciety. I already felt like what can be discribes as a big flu, but the feeling gets even worse.

 

So i dont know what to do now. If tapering tramadol will makes me feel even worse like i already do and cant barely get myself off the couch. But will it interfere with my WD from the clomipramine if i keep taking it once a day untill i'm feeling better? I got oxazepam and xanax here, never took the xanax yet, only the oxazepam when it was really unbearrable. But like no more than once a week, and no more than one. Happened once i took a second a day. I learned it interferes with the healing?

 

 

Its really hard, how can i make it more comfortable for myself? WIll CBD oil do anything? Did anybody tried hypnosis, accupunctre, anything like that?

I have shiftings in what i get as a withdrawal, got cold chills last week for instance, and this week i'm gasping for air alot and my head seems like its getting crushed.

Will i ever feel better? I was on a low dose, but i was on it for long. I want to feel a bit better again for when i get the call for the start off my OCD therapy i'm waiting for.

If i feel like this'i'm not able to drive the car to the practice to get the therapy.

 

I take magnesium and vitamin B12 and eat fish for omega-3 two times a week.

And take a banana every day, i read banana's are good for natural ingrease of serotonin?

[Altostrata]

What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages? What times of day do you have spike in tinnitus?

 

Please take all psychiatric drugs on a consistent daily schedule, taking them off-schedule can result in odd symptoms. If you want to experiment with the drug schedule, you need to be systematic -- one change at a time. 

 

Unless you observe the results of a tramadol change over several days to a week, you're not going to be able to identify whether a change in schedule moves a drug-induced symptom.

 

We do not treat OCD here, we help people go off drugs if they choose to do so. If you feel you need to go off your drugs, you will need to learn ways to manage your OCD with non-drug means, such as coaching from a psychotherapist.

[Clomiwithdrawal]

@Altostrata

 

I did it systematic. I changed the time i take the tramadol and didn't got a real change of the tinnitusspikes, but i does calm my symptoms when i ingrease the dose a little bit, i tried that yesterday. I dont use any other psychatric drugs. I know u dont treat OCD here, its not what i asked.

 

I don't take benzo's really, i take one a week, i did in the beginning of the complete stop in eind of may, but no more than 2,5 mg of valium a day and skipped days as much as possible. But quited. Could that be whats bodering me too, that i did

 

I'm really going crazy here. I cant sit still, have to walk, my skin feels like there are ants crawling underneath them, my tinnitus is changing all day through and makes me want to bang my head trough the wall,  i'm going mad here!

 

I really dont see it anymore why i started this. Quiting feels so useless now and makes me think my life will never be as it was ever again. I had a good life, went everwhere and did everything and tought it would be just tapering and quiting the pills and live on. If i knew it would be such a torture i wouldnt have quit the medication. already starting to have dark toughts. I dont know what to do. I cant reinstate, but i cant go on like this. HELP!

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

21 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages? What times of day do you have spike in tinnitus?

 

Please answer this.

 

8 hours ago, Clomiwithdrawal said:

I don't take benzo's really, i take one a week, i did in the beginning of the complete stop in eind of may, but no more than 2,5 mg of valium a day and skipped days as much as possible. But quited.

 

What was the period when you took Valium every day? When was your last Valium?

[Clomiwithdrawal]

@Altostrata

 

I tried to take the tramadol 50mg, wich i take out 18 balls, at another hour.

I took them usually around 13:00 and changed that to 10:00. No change was found.

But....the every couple of hours appearing beep has disappeared. My tinnitus is still constantly changing.

 

What am i suppose to do?

Will it get even worse when i try to quit tramadol by tapering, will it get worse if i dont?

What does the bisoprolol i take for my heart do for my tinnitus? I cant just quit this medication....

 

The valium was never taken more than 2 days in a row and not more than 2,5mg a day.

I always started with a quarter of a 5mg tablet and let it set in to see if i needed a bit more. I tried to keep at least one or two days between them.

Its been over a month now since i took the last tiny piece of valium.

[Altostrata]

5 hours ago, Clomiwithdrawal said:

But....the every couple of hours appearing beep has disappeared.

 

Did this occur when you took tramadol earlier?

 

Were you taking Valium for 2 days, skipping a day, then taking it for another 2 days?

 

5 hours ago, Clomiwithdrawal said:

What does the bisoprolol i take for my heart do for my tinnitus?

 

Please consult a reliable source to review adverse effects of bisprolol.

 

Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs (ALL DRUGS), their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.