lex1989: escitalopram / Cipralex and clonazepam / Rivotril / Klonopin

[Greatful]

@lex1989  Oh Man, you are getting hit with the drops I bet.  What's going on?

 

Please do not reach for a quick fix.  I did that last winter and then had to suffer all summer with the added drug of Lexapro and you know still not stable.

Your cns is on over drive. Dig down deep, way deep grab a hold.   It feels really horrible and almost more then a human can bare but know that nothing bad is going to happen to you,  it's all in the mind.......Anxiety is a physical sensation that's all and it can only reach a certain point and that's it.  

What are you doing to manage the symptoms?  Remember all you have to do is make it to your pillow tonight.

 

As Bayylissa Frederick say's in her book recovery and Renewal ( recommend you read it if you can) about acceptance(hard I know)   She has a web site also www.baylissa.com

"Imagine you are on your way home.  You know without a doubt you will arrive you look ahead and notice there is a massive traffic jam.  You are stuck.  There is no way out but through.  All you can do is resign yourself to waiting.  This is withdrawal.

 

Hang in there

Edited January 17, 2022 by Greatful

[lex1989]

36 minutes ago, Greatful said:

@lex1989  Oh Man, you are getting hit with the drops I bet.  What's going on?

The drops where 0.24 mg in total which is less than 5%. Last cut was 11% and did feel it much much less worse.

The problem is that I did cut, while cutting missed a dose, also split the dose, then got back to full dose (+ broken my sleep schedule and problems with fiancee). Those all around made this hell on earth. I need to start to learn to make one change at a time, because this is my second mystake like this and it hit be terible.

Also added 2 new supplements (folic acid and another one) , that makes it 6 changes at once.

 

43 minutes ago, Greatful said:

@lex1989

Please do not reach for a quick fix.  I did that last winter and then had to suffer all summer with the added drug of Lexapro and you know still not stable.

Your cns is on over drive. Dig down deep, way deep grab a hold.   It feels really horrible and almost more then a human can bare but know that nothing bad is going to happen to you,  it's all in the mind.......Anxiety is a physical sensation that's all and it can only reach a certain point and that's it.  

What are you doing to manage the symptoms?  Remember all you have to do is make it to your pillow tonight.

 

42 minutes ago, Greatful said:

 

 

Don t want a quick fix, I know there is none. Just want a reasurance to have if things get worse and unbearable.

I m fighting as much as I can to not take anything and stabilize “naturally”.

Is hard to get over it when friends and familly keep pushing to go to doc, rehab or take some benzos to feel better, when they don’t know the harm those can make.

56 minutes ago, Greatful said:

As Bayylissa Frederick say's in her book recovery and Renewal ( recommend you read it if you can) about acceptance(hard I know)   She has a web site also www.baylissa.com

"Imagine you are on your way home.  You know without a doubt you will arrive you look ahead and notice there is a massive traffic jam.  You are stuck.  There is no way out but through.  All you can do is resign yourself to waiting.  This is withdrawal.

 

Hang in there

Thank you very much for the suggestions, I will check it. I ve read At Last a Life by Paul David and Help Self Your Nerves by Claire Weeks, the same acceptance is applied. 
 

I wish you the best as well 🤗

[Greatful]

I hope you can get some personal support from at least one or two in your family.

 

I know it is hard but have you printed out information about wd and how these drugs change our brain.  Maybe let them go on SA  and learn about it themselves.....

My goodness you have it from one doctor the damage lex is doing to your liver.

 

I am going to chalk it up there their panic  and seeing you in so much pain that they would suggest you seek out more drugs......

 

I like to read from someone who has recovered and their story like Baylissa Frederick, she can give person hands on validation and helpful encouragement.  She went through post-acute WD and protracted WD.  Who is Paul David?  Did he go through WD?   I think Claire Weeks is helpful too.

You are going to okay🤗

[lex1989]

35 minutes ago, Greatful said:

I hope you can get some personal support from at least one or two in your family.

 

I know it is hard but have you printed out information about wd and how these drugs change our brain.  Maybe let them go on SA  and learn about it themselves.....

My goodness you have it from one doctor the damage lex is doing to your liver.

 

Most of them undestand, as I explained everything, they just want to see me better, they don’t know the harms of this medicine exxactly, but getting there.

 

36 minutes ago, Greatful said:

 

I like to read from someone who has recovered and their story like Baylissa Frederick, she can give person hands on validation and helpful encouragement.  She went through post-acute WD and protracted WD.  Who is Paul David?  Did he go through WD?   I think Claire Weeks is helpful too.

You are going to okay🤗

Paul David got through anxiety 10 years, tried everything and nothing work, except the acceptance of his “tired” brain, while puting no more logical stress on top of the disorder /chemichal one, he recovered. Check him up.

 

I definatelly will check Baylissa Frederick.

[lex1989]

@Frogie I stabilized, feeling "good". 

I will start in 2 days to split the Clonazepam.

 

Will do a 2h shift to move 0.15 mg to 12 AM. In 6 days this shall be finished, then stay a little bit more to see how it is and continue my tapper.

 

 

[Frogie]

That's great that you stabilized.

 

Just take it easy and don't go too fast.

[lex1989]

17 hours ago, Frogie said:

That's great that you stabilized.

 

Just take it easy and don't go too fast.

Will do. Thank you !

[Frogie]

@lex1989

 

Sounds great. You've got a good head on your shoulders. I'm sure you'll do fine.

[lex1989]

@Frogie Thank you >:D<.

 

I have a question. I found some data on theinnercompass.org regarding the storing of the powder made from solid drugs.

As you know I am tapering using powder, I crush it and store it in a normal medicine jar at the room temperature.

Do you think it's ok ? Or does Lexapro and Klonopin have some restrictions due to this ?

[Frogie]

@lex1989

 

I think you are fine storing it in a dark medicine container. Just don't store it in the bathroom where it will get hot. Or where sunlight can get to is. Keep it in a cool dry place. But it doesn't need refrigerated either. I used to store mine in a kitchen cabinet away from any heat source, until I switched to liquid.

[Frogie]

@lex1989

 

I was just checking in on you?

[lex1989]

7 hours ago, Frogie said:

@lex1989

 

I was just checking in on you?

 
Thank you for checking @Frogie, I had actually a very good week considering wd, better than just beeing stable.

 

That beeing said I started to split the Clonazepam dose.
Unfortunatelly I need to stop this change, at least for the moment, because my fiancee decided to leave me (I guess the inevitable has happen), as she does not want to support me anymore in this hard time of wd… She does not like the “new me”, in this wd situation + some personal problems we had. 
 

I hope I will have the toughness to cope with this, without increasing the benzo, as I managed very well to not do it until now, this is so anoying and hard that it happened

[Frogie]

@lex1989

 

I'm sorry to hear about you and your fiance. That is hard to deal with, let alone during wd.

 

You may need to hold off on splitting for a while, as you said, to let your nervous system stabilize during this situation.

 

When you feel better and more stable, you could try splitting it again and see if that helps.

 

Keep your chin up. Please keep me posted on how you are doing.

 

Take care.

[Frogie]

@lex1989

 

Just checking in on you?

[lex1989]

I'm ok as I can be in this situation. Thanks for checking @Frogie.

I was kind of stable and decided to still split the Clonzepam dose, will stop splitting if I feel not being up to it.

[Frogie]

@lex1989

 

I'm really sorry you are dealing with this and with your personal stuff right now. That is a difficult situation to be in.

 

Just be careful with the splitting, and most of all hold.

 

Be kind to yourself. It does go a long way.

 

Keep me posted please.

 

Take care,

Frogie

[lex1989]

Update :

Split of Clonazepam is kind of done. Taking 0.15 mg at 00 and 0.15 at 3PM. 
 

The worst part is I am doing awful, had 3 very hard days now, after having 3 functional - ok days. 
 

I don’t have anymore windows / dirty windows in late evening / night like I always had in WD and also my sleep is bad / v bad for this couple of nights.

Maybe I did to many changes these past weeks and it got to me, I am not sure, at it seem that I stabilized quikly.
 

I will try to hold and see improvements, but if I don’t see any this split was fail, like the Lexapro one.

[lex1989]

Update 2: Things are starting to get much worse, instead of getting slightly better.
 

I have constant chest burning with extreme sensation of something I cannot describe, maybe terror, panic, extreme discomfort or restleness, idk…

 

I also, for the first time, cannot cry, I feel emotional flat, I usually do cry when things happen to be very bad and feel better, now I cannot do it.

 

@Frogie I know deep down I need to wait this to pass, but my sleep became horrible, I cannot rest and the days are horrible as well, I just cannot understand how a benzo split could do this, how is it possible…? 
 

I took a buspar this morning, did not helped at all, I feel even worse tbh.

 

Shall I raise the Clonazepam dose? Shall I go back to full dose at night as before ? Shall I take half of Bromazepam to help cope with this horrible simptoms? 
I don’t know what to do…

Edited February 12, 2022 by Frogie

[Frogie]

@lex1989

 

I thought I'd drop by really quickly and shed a little light. I'm still out sick.

 

You have been through MAJOR changes in your life lately and then the splitting of the Lexapro not working and now this, I think your body has said that's enough.

 

I'm going to tag @Shep and @Altostrata and see if they can determine what the next thing to do would be.

 

But in my opinion, all the things in your life, the lexapro and now the clinazepam, you've gone way too fast and you just need to hold, hold, and hold some more. Don't make anymore changes at this time. As I said you had to be careful with the split.

 

I should be back tomorrow, I'm almost healed where I can actually function. But in the meantime, hopefully one of them can help.

[lex1989]

This is the 5th day after I started to hold in the Clonazepam split, also the 9-10th day after first starting to split. 
 

Chest burning, extreme terror (I am not sure if that is, I cannot describe it). Also I cannot cry, it’s insane. 
 

[Altostrata]

Hello, @lex1989 Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

[lex1989]

Hello @Altostrata.

 

I usually get in ~70% of the cases more increased symptoms after taking the Lexapro at 1 PM, as always.

The adr from this is clear, as we talked in the past. 

While things get slightly better in late evening and much better before sleep at night.

 

I want to make a short resume of what happened in only 5 weeks time, because it may be very relevant. @Frogie is aware as she was along me this time.

 

I am sorry for the following long post, I know you don't like it, but there is no other way.

 

• Stabilized in late December and started the 0.08 mg / 4 day Lexapro cut
• I broke my sleep rhythm in holiday, putting my self very late to sleep
• After few days took by mistake a Lexapro dose instead of a Clonazepam one and did not took it the following day because of that
• Stopped the 0.08 mg / 4 day Lexapro cut
• Tried 3 new supplements
• After few more days tried the Lexapro split (as for idea of ultra-fast metabolizer would help).
• Crashed. Got back to full dose. Hold
• Stabilized very quick in a couple of days, did actually v good.
• Problems with my fiancée, wanted to move out and break up (lucky me). Destabilized again
• Made up with her. Stabilized quick again.
• Started the Clonazepam split in few days.
• First days, my sleep started to become a little worse
• Hold for 2 days. In this 2 days I tried ANSileve SOS (hemp seed oil, Ashwaganda, Hawthorn, Lavander) + ANSileve all night (dried hop cone extract, talc, ethylcellulose, glaze) with 200 mg hop extract, L-theanine 200 mg, dry lime flower extract 75 mg, melatonin 1 mg). Was actually v good for these 3 days.
• Re-started the Clonazepam split and finished it (1 x 0.15mg Clonazepam at usual 00 and 1 x 0.15 Clonazepam at 15:00)
• Crashed. Sleep got the most horrible possible (waking each 1-2 hours with extreme chest burn + terror + emotional numbness),  never had this before. While this is happening also in the middle of the day as well.

 

Now, Taking in consideration everything I did in just 5 weeks and thought I can stabilize faster (might actually can, but not at this stupid rate), definitely big mistakes were made. 

Nonetheless the idea that I came up to and actually hit me today was that I broke my sleep trying to split 0.3mg that was before sleep, that actually helped me in WD, as you mention very well, sleep is very important in WD.

 

While already being in WD from Clonazepam, WD and adr from Lexapro, sleep is a very important part of keeping things from falling apart in WD. 0.3 mg of Clonazepam before bed was helping to maintain some of it.

I remember when I was on 0.5 mg, before starting to taper, but being in tolerance with Clonazepam and adr from Lexapro, the sleep was still much better then it was after the fast taper to 0.3mg.

 

Also my sleep seems to get worse and not better, it has been 13 days since the start of split and 5 days since finishing the split.

I personally think I should go back to full dose 0.3 mg before bed. I am in the shape I am because I cannot sleep.

 

I am thinking of up dosing very little (so CNS will not see a much of a difference) 0.05mg the 0.15 mg at 00, to make it 0.2mg to help sleep some, until I came back with other 0.15 mg.

Also was thinking to move very slowly with the 0.15mg from 3 PM, like 1 hour each 2 days, as I am already destabilized.

 

What do you think ? @Altostrata@Frogie

 

[Frogie]

@lex1989

 

I think you've done really well sitting down and analyzing everything that has been going on and what might be causing it. You came to the right conclusion.

 

You did all of this way too fast with everything going on in your life, not just the medications can affect everything in your CNS. And you have been through a lot in the last few weeks. 

 

I think moving it back, even if you do it slower, by 1/2 hour each day if needed is the thing to do. Then you don't want to touch the medications at all for a very long time. You have destroyed your CNS just wanting a "quick fix", and you learned it isn't there. 

 

I'm glad you were able to do this without everyone having to tell you what/how to do it. 

 

I think with a nice long hold and not adding/deleting anything for quite a while, you will stabilize and feel much better.

 

Thanks for the update.

 

 

[lex1989]

Thank you for the response and kind words @Frogie.

 

I did it with my own hand, thinking I can do, what others can, where I was wrong, this is my 3rd mistake and I finally need to learn from it. I still think I can stabilize a bit quicker tough haha, but not on this rhythm I created myself.

 

48 minutes ago, Frogie said:

You have destroyed your CNS just wanting a "quick fix", and you learned it isn't there. 

Unfortunately very true. learned it in the hard hard way and need to learn more acceptance about how long I need to endure this.

But as far as I see it, when you endure less pain you can endure it longer, but the other way around it's nearly impossible.

 

52 minutes ago, Frogie said:

I think with a nice long hold and not adding/deleting anything for quite a while, you will stabilize and feel much better.

 

Thanks for the update.

 

Agree. Thank you as well !

[Yesyes123]

On 9/18/2021 at 2:34 PM, lex1989 said:

I really I very sad of my decision to actually go to the psychiatrist in the first place, but I did now knew much then. As I know now, the symptoms that I had then where really easy compared to the ones I have now

 

Don't blame yourself.

Everyone on this website has this same regret.

We all wish we knew better before taking any of these drugs.

 

The thing is...

We will never be able to change our past. 

It's no use wasting energy in this direction and it might create a spiral of bad thoughts.

 

Focus on what can actually be done, and it is quite amazing how the way opens up.

 

Peace + healing

[lex1989]

1 hour ago, Yesyes123 said:

 

Don't blame yourself.

Everyone on this website has this same regret.

We all wish we knew better before taking any of these drugs.

 

The thing is...

We will never be able to change our past. 

It's no use wasting energy in this direction and it might create a spiral of bad thoughts.

 

Focus on what can actually be done, and it is quite amazing how the way opens up.

 

Peace + healing

Nice seeing you dropping by @Yesyes123.

 

You are right, we are not be able to change our past, so we must not waste efforts on that, unless they invent a time machine lol.

 

For me sometimes, it helps remembering and getting mad about it and giving me power, maybe it’s strange. But it’s same as if I watch podcasts or articles of the lies of this medicines and the harm they did to people. 
 

Pace and healing to you too !

[Frogie]

@lex1989

 

Here's a couple links that might help:

 

Anhedonia, apathy, demotivation, emotional numbness

Digestive problems:  Nausea, Diarrhoea, Bloating, GERD

[lex1989]

I up dosed 0.05 Clonazepam at 00 and cut 0.05 from 3 PM, keeping the same dose. Also slightly started to move from 3PM now to 4PM.

But I think I need to stop making any changes, even this try to remake the full dose as before it seems horrible, my body does not support any more changes.

 

I slept again horrible and woke up with probably akathisia for the first time, I am still not sure, it's still early, will keep updating.

If things are not getting better or get some sort of relief soon, I don't know....

[Frogie]

 

@lex1989

 

I think you are completely correct. Stop what you are doing and give your body a well deserved rest. Your CNS is a mess right now after everything it’s been through and just needs to stabilize.

[Frogie]

@lex1989

 

Could you please provide us with 24 hour notes on your symptoms for a few days so we know more about what it going on. Thanks.

 

Keep Notes on Paper

[lex1989]

Hello @Frogie,

 

I've made some notes to myself and I don't see any pattern whatsoever, or a specific bad reaction to a med / supplement, except the usual reaction to the Lexapro that I had before as well.

 

Usually the day starts with me getting up in complete terror / dread, that somehow subsides a bit in 1-2 hours, then the days goes completely random with the symptoms spiking and going down. But usually bad / very bad overall. If before I had an average of ~4, now it's almost double, 7. (0 - good, 10 - very bad).

 

On some days I have some "breaks" in the late evening / night as I always had, but on other days I don't have them anymore and suffer 24/7, which never happened to me until now.

 

Still doing poorly, I don't see any improvement. I thought about going back to the full dose before sleep, as this change was a disaster (among all other changes I did), but I assume this would be "counted" as one more change as well, idk.

 

I've taken a small dose of CBD to alleviate a bit of the continuous terror.

[Frogie]

@lex1989

 

I think at this point, with a failed split, you should go back to dosing the full dose at bedtime until you get off the Lexapro.  Are you moving the dose back to night one hour each night? That's what you should be doing as you know already.

 

Then hold for a couple of months and reassess the Clonazepam at that time and see how your body is feeling before trying to taper it.

 

It might help to keep notes and post them every couple of days so we know how you are doing.

 

Keep Notes on Paper

 

Keep your chin up. You were stable once, and it will happen again.

 

 

[lex1989]

3 hours ago, Frogie said:

@lex1989

 

I think at this point, with a failed split, you should go back to dosing the full dose at bedtime until you get off the Lexapro.  Are you moving the dose back to night one hour each night? That's what you should be doing as you know already.

 

Will do, starting from tomorrow I will move the dose 1 hour up in hour / day. Hope this will work and get back to "normal" soon.

 

3 hours ago, Frogie said:

Then hold for a couple of months and reassess the Clonazepam at that time and see how your body is feeling before trying to taper it.

 

 

Keep your chin up. You were stable once, and it will happen again.

 

 

 

Agree and agree !

[lex1989]

@Frogie

Update: Need your help!

 

Altought it’s definatelly clear what happened, I destroyed my sleep spliting the doze of Clonazepam that was before bed.

 

I am aware of the mistakes I made and would never repeat them anymore, but at this point I am in a such terrible place that I cannot take it anymore. I cannot sleep, I am 100% sure this unbearable simptoms are due to this, as I was already in WD, sleep kept me going and stable. I need a fix and unfortunatelly it’s that case where I cannot hold and wait it of, I need some small relief at least now.

 

I am with the 0.1mg Clonazepam doze at 6 PM, 6 hours apart from the one before sleep, but feel this will take time and I can t bear anymore with that at this level of suffering and also idk how much will help once I have 0.3 mg before bed again at the state I am now. 
 

I see 3 solutions here (I can still think some rational, but idk how much I will at this state with no sleep) :

 

1. Take 1.5 Bromazepam in the morning, when the simptome of terror and despair are horrible and continue a good portion of hours through the day and take 1.5 Bromazepam before bed to help maintain the sleep while I move the 0.1 mg Clonazepam back to the full 0.3 mg.

To mention that would do this like once every 2-3 days, to help me survive, to be honest, keeping this schedule I don t know how fast I can become dependent on Bromazepam.

 

2. Updose Clonazepam before bed to 0.3-0.4 mg directly and keep the 0.1 mg in the day. I am unsure how this will work, as I am already dependent on Clonazepam, but at least I won’t risk any more complications of adding a new benzo that would involve tapering from that as well.

 

3. Take Bromazepam as needed, when I cannot take it anymore (mostly all the time now), but this would mean something similar to 1.

 

 

I am sorry if I let you down, I definatelly don t see myself with my head on my sholders now. The simptoms are so brutal and constant, that are simply unbearable, I wake up almost every hour at night with a grip in my chest and heavy terror. In the first good part of the day the terror I feel is inimaginable.

I cannot believe how I arrived at this state, while couple of weeks ago beeing stable.

 

[benesh]

https://www.meetup.com/global-psychmed-support-network/
 

@lex1989

 

I found this on meetup. 
 

This tapering from Lexapro is such a challenge. 
 

Hope these help you.

I am a believer in Jesus and wish I could find a sg with that worldview. 
Until then I pray, cling and trust one day freedom will occur.

[Frogie]

@lex1989

 

I think with all that is going on, in my opinion I would just stop moving the Clonazepam and just move the full dose to the evening, instead if moving by an hour every night.

 

You could also try upping it in the evening to the original dose and then add the .10 in the morning.

 

At least you have realized that you have made a mistake and are willing to stop and hold. That is the main thing to do at this point.

 

Let me know how you want to proceed.

 

Hang in there.