KayC: getting off venlafaxine 300mg

September 19, 2021

Greetings!

A bit of history:

I sought mental health support the second semester of my freshman year in college (1997) at the college counseling center, and within months, was put on my first antidepressant - Prozac. Many followed suit.

Misdiagnosed Bipolar 1 (although I repeatedly told him I NEVER have had a manic episode and did not really fit any of the DSM criteria well) and treated as such from 2001-2014.

Finally properly diagnosed as having CPTSD, or Developmental Trauma, by a therapist in 2015.

Tapered off all drugs after working with the trauma therapist except the Venlafaxine. Tried tapering twice using the 10% rule and suffered severe depression within days. I have no social support, this is not an option for me currently as I am a single mom and work full time.

I am currently on 300 mg of Venlafaxine IR. I believe it is causing me serious issues, possibly the major cause of a "mystery" illness I've been suffering from for 5-7 years that no blood work so far has been able to explain. (My most recent test was for Lyme....we'll see.) Been on some combination of Effexor/Venlafaxine with other drugs or singly at least for 15 years now.

Here are my symptoms:

1) Sleep issues - (QUALITY SUCKS)

- Vivid, intense, often disturbing dreams every single night

- Insomnia (takes 1.5-2 hrs to fall asleep without aids)

- Waking frequently through the night (I had a sleep app show me I was waking at least 11 times during the night, but I'm not sure how accurate the app was)

- NEVER feel well rested upon waking, no matter how long I sleep

- Severe bruxism (as in, having to purchase a rigid mouth guard splint every 3-4 years to replace the one I wore down)

- Talking in my sleep, acting out my dreams: kicking, flailing, falling out of bed trying to escape something, once I even stood straight up in bed and then lay back down. (No history of sleepwalking)

2) Cold hands, feet, and nose (peripheral vascular disorder)

3) Frequent "icky" feeling, like "poison running through my veins."

This isn't just nausea. I really don't know how else to describe it. Nothing helps.

4) Frequent headaches (though this could be due to bruxism and or caffeine)

5) Chronic runny nose

6) Heat intolerance (I am not perimenopausal according to my OBGYN, at 43 it seems a bit early and my mom went into it in her 50s)

7) Other weird, random, mysterious symptoms like heart palpitations, chest pain, stomach cramps etc.

TODAY, I'm afraid to take the Venlafaxine because I don't want to feel like there's "poison in my veins" like yesterday. My first questions are, do you think taking the 300 mg all at once as an IR could be causing this? And would it be worthwhile to space it out while I run out of pills and then request an XR prescription for the time being? I do take it with food.

My long-term plan for getting off Venlafaxine is currently under review for two options, would love feedback for these too:

1) Start on Prozac as a bridge and then taper off the Venlafaxine. Current doctor is looking for a specific schedule for this - anyone have one? No one here has any kind of experience with getting off Effexor other than, I quote, "It's a bear!"

2) Go to a rehab facility and get off in 2-3 months with support and care (I am really leaning towards this because I seriously need time off work, I am all out of sick/vacation leave, and FMLA would keep my job for me), but I need to check to see if my insurance would cover this.

THANK YOU!!!

_________

Drug history (to be updated with more detail soon):

Starting November 1997: Prozac (10-20 mg)

In quick succession (1997-2001): Effexor XR, Wellbutrin trial (1 mo), Zoloft, Celexa, Serzone

Misdiagnosed BP1 2001-2014: singly and in various combinations - Depakote, Trileptal, Tegratol, Lithium (which proceeded to affect my parathyroids, thyroid, and kidneys before I was taken off - now have hypothyroidism and CKD3), Lamictal, Remeron, Cymbalta, Geodon, Risperdal, and Abilify. Effexor/Venlaxine frequently was combined with these.

Since 2015: Tapered off Abilify over 1.5 yrs, got off Lamictal in 1 month, tried to get off Venlafaxine twice.

Now: Just Venlafaxine IR 300 mg daily. Also on Pravastatin 80 mg for high cholesterol and Levothyroxine 68.5 mg for hypothyroidism.

September 21, 2021

Welcome, @KayC

On 9/19/2021 at 12:22 PM, KayC said:

I am currently on 300 mg of Venlafaxine IR.

You are taking 300mg immediate-release venlafaxine? That is unusual. Why not the extended-release version? What time o'clock do you take it?

Your symptoms indicate activation from too much of the drug is getting into your system at once, or your overall dosage is too high.

Please put ALL your drugs in this Interactions Checker and post the report or a link to it in this topic.

To help us out, follow these instructions Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

September 21, 2021

Yes! I don't know how that happened. I had a horrible psychiatrist, honestly. I think I was previously on XR, and then just switched to IR because according to my pharmacist, "if you just eat a meal, it does the same thing," and my psychiatrist didn't catch it. At the time I was taking other medications, so it didn't seem to make a difference. But now that I'm ONLY taking the Venlafaxine IR, the side effects are awful. I'm currently checking with my mail-in pharmacy to find out why I don't have better guidance on the label. It just says, "take 3 tabs daily," and I've always taken them all at once, with food, because no one ever told me differently. I think I wanted to stay on IR at one point because the sexual side effects went away in the evening when I was more likely to be sexually active, where with XR, they persisted. I stopped seeing this psychiatrist in 2016 and transferred care to a behavioral health facility. I had issues with one of their psych nurses (he triggered my PTSD - also not listening to me), and left. Now my PCP refills the prescriptions. I usually take it in the morning with food, right after breakfast, maybe 10 am.

Honestly, if I could sue the original psychiatrist for malpractice, I would, because he just didn't listen to me when I said I'd never had a manic episode. I never had a formal assessment to diagnose me properly. Also, while I was under his care and taking Lithium, I experienced hyperparathyroidism and had surgery for parathyroid removal, hypothyroidism, which is now chronic (thus the Levo); and kidney scarring, causing CKD3. I also had a negative drug interaction once from a few drugs he prescribed at the same time.

Thank you so much!

Drug Interaction Report - Drugs.com.pdf

September 25, 2021

On 9/20/2021 at 8:21 PM, KayC said:

"take 3 tabs daily," and I've always taken them all at once, with food, because no one ever told me differently

Someone should have told you to take these 8 hours apart.

You reduced from 300mg venlafaxine IR to 225mg 5 days ago? That would be a 25% reduction. How are you feeling?

I'm so sorry you have long-term health consequences from that psychiatrist's treatment. Yes, he does sound like a very bad doctor.

Making a pdf of your drug interaction report is very sophisticated. We prefer links so we don't have to download anything. At any rate, it looks like you don't have any significant drug interactions.

September 25, 2021

Thank you so much for your feedback. Actually the schedule I'm now following (today is day 😎 8.) is the last one recommended by a psychiatric nurse I went to a year ago. I take 225 mg one day, then 300 mg for two days, then 225 mg, and so on for one month. This is kind of how I tapered off the Abilify (I made my own schedule on that one). I thought it was the 10% rule. But I looked back on my notes and now I'm not so sure. So far I'm doing better than I did in the past when I tried this regimen. I don't feel any different yet. But last time it took 12 days before the severe depression returned and I think I was just scared. My moods have always been all over the place and what made them worse was thinking that was a bad thing. Now I have an attitude of radical acceptance...this is just the way I am, and yes, some days suck, but it isn't necessarily bad. I also had my doctor fill a prescription for 10 mg Prozac so I could attempt a bridge if I felt it was necessary. I feel so much like I'm flying blind with this and I don't like it.

I didn't know how to make a link to the drug interaction page, but I can try to do that if it's better.s8pan widgetspan widget

September 25, 2021

I accidentally put an emoji in and I don't know how to get rid of that!

October 10, 2021

UPDATE:

So, at first I tried taking the tabs later in the day after a big meal to try an ameliorate the side effects (especially the nausea). This way, I seemed to suffer fewer side effects during the day, but then my insomnia got way worse, even with sleep aids. That wasn't tolerable to me.

I stopped tapering the "Psych Nurse" way (really, why are they so clueless?) and started a modified 10% method, taking 275 mg (which is a bit less than 10% of 300 mg, I know, but it's easier to break the tabs into quarters), and spacing up the dosing, since I'm on IR. So far, this is the longest I've gone without an episode while tapering. I'm hopeful, but it's early yet.

The Psych Nurse recommended regimen:

Started September 19, 2021: 225 mg

9/20: 300 mg

9/21: 300 mg

9/22: 225 mg

9/23: 300 mg

9/24: 300 mg

9/25: 225 mg

9/26: 300 mg

9/27: 225 mg

9/28: 300 mg

9/29: 300 mg

9/30: 275 mg

10/1: 300 mg

Start the (modified) 10% method:

10/2 - 10/5: 275 mg daily (all at once with food)

10/6: Decided to break up my doses the way IR is designed to be taken; 150 mg am (w/ food), 125 mg pm (w/ food)

Having to plan to take the dose with food is a big pain, because I have to eat enough not to feel the nausea the pills will induce on an empty stomach, but not eat so much I get bloated. I don't have a strict meal schedule, either. I eat three meals a day, around the times people generally eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

As far as feeling withdrawal, I am feeling the brain zaps a bit more, but they are not one of the more troublesome side effects for me. One day I actually felt like "my old self," in that I was super sad ALL DAY. I made myself just sit with it. And remembered before the meds I used to just get sad sometimes, and it lasted all day. That was just me. Radical acceptance is everything. "It's OK not to be OK."

The GOOD thing is, I haven't had a severe depressive episode (YET), and it's been 21 days...the longest I've tried tapering. Maybe it won't be so bad for me! (Crossing my fingers!)

I also have some more social support in my life recently, which is super helpful. And am trying to get into an exercise routine of sorts. Exercise is so important for EVERYTHING. Especially the anxiety/restlessness. I've always had horrible anxiety, which gets worse if I frame it as "bad," or try to get rid of it. But exercise really does help.

October 10, 2021

Good you've found a calming technique to surf the bumps!

25 minutes ago, KayC said:

started a modified 10% method, taking 275 mg (which is a bit less than 10% of 300 mg

It's fine to taper at less than 10%.

If you're getting brain zaps, please stop tapering right now. That's a yellow flashing "caution" from your nervous system. You need to stop making drug changes to let it settle down.

If you're tapering by 25mg at a time, that's a linear taper. You'll be within 10% exponential reductions until you get to 225mg. At that point, a 25mg reduction is larger than 10%, and will become a greater and greater reduction rate if you continue that reduction schedule. I strongly suggest you look carefully at Tips for tapering off venlafaxine (Effexor) You've had failed tapers before, this puts you at elevated risk of withdrawal.

You can copy the link to your drug interaction report from the drugs.com browser bar and paste it here.

November 30, 2021

Update (November 30, 2021)

Due to physical and mental exhaustion I requested a long-term hiatus from work and resolved to focus on proper tapering off my Venlafaxine IR. It took about 3 weeks of rest for me to feel like I had the capacity to properly manage anything. I bought a jeweler's scale and started breaking up the 275 mg dose into equal parts, to be taken 12 hours apart (9:30 am and 9:30 pm) with food. I calculated that 275 mg was about a 7.7% reduction. I also started taking a omega oil vitamin. During this time, some of my side effects/withdrawals have significantly improved, noted below:

Improvements:

Insomnia much less common

Waking less frequently during the night

Nausea gone

Headaches less common

Heat intolerance gone!

Other symptoms less frequent (occasional heart palpitations)

No improvement:

Vivid, intense, often disturbing dreams every single night

NEVER feel well rested upon waking, no matter how long I sleep

Severe bruxism

Talking in my sleep, acting out my dreams

Cold hands, feet, and nose (peripheral vascular disorder)

Chronic runny nose

I plan to start my next taper (7%) December 1st.

Drug interaction report: https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2296-0,1463-0,1929-0

January 28, 2022

Update (January 28, 2022)

Ok, so I started my second 10% taper on MLK day, January 17th.

The first 10% taper was considerably rocky because I was still trying to sift through all the conflicting information from the medical community telling me one thing and peer supports telling me another and trying to get things in order to do it properly, so my poor nervous system was a mess. You really do have to be exact with the math, weighing, and taking every crumb. Eyeballing it does not work.

First, you need to get the total weight of the tabs from your starting point. The tabs include inactive ingredients, so they are not going to equal your dosage. For example, I took 3 tabs - 100 mg each - to equal a 300 mg dosage of Venlafaxine IR, but when I weighed three tabs, the scale did not equal 300 mg. Also, the tabs do not all weigh the same! So I weighed 3 tabs 7 times and then took an average of the weights.

Using my Gemini-20 jeweler's scale, I found an average 300 mg dose of Venlafaxine to weigh approximately 1205 mg (1.205 g).

For my first 10% taper, which I took nearly three months to get right, this meant a 10% reduction was about 121 grams less. 1205 subtract 121 is 1085 mg.

Since I'm taking IR, I had to break the dose into two equal portions, to take 12 hours apart. Half of 1085 mg is 543 mg. I chose to take the first dose at 9:30 am and the next at 9:30 pm. At first I struggled to remember, especially since my sleep was so off, but then I put an alarm on my phone and worked hard to take it at exactly 9:30 (or within 10 minutes) with food.

I tell ya, this is tough for someone struggling with the side effects and withdrawals of this drug as well as mental and physical burnout and exhaustion from life. But I did it.

I wasn't perfect. I would cut up the tabs into the exact weights, but there were often crumbs and bits that would get lost or stuck in the pill container...that meant I wouldn't get an exact dose, and I'd go through withdrawal. If I didn't eat enough with it, I'd feel sick. If I waited too long (30 minutes), I'd get withdrawals. I ended up buying empty gelatin pill capsules at a health food store and pouring the crumbs into the capsules to make sure I didn't miss any.

By the beginning of January, I had it down and felt pretty stable and back to normal. It had been two weeks since I felt any significant emotional upheaval and awhile since I'd had physical symptoms, so I decided to try my next taper the middle of January. During this time I'd started back to work after my FMLA. I'd worked three weeks without having to take sick time.

Now, I wish I would have waited. (Well, sort of.)

I timed it so I'd have emotional support during the first week. I'm in a long distance relationship, so I asked my supervisor if I could work remotely and stayed a week with my significant other, working from his house. That was fine, I had a lot of physical stuff, but it was ok, and I was able to work a full week without issue. I forgot it takes about a week for the emotional stuff to begin. That was my first mistake. I came back home and was alone when the emotional stuff struck.

That was this last week, and it was really rough. I've always struggled with obsessive thinking and accompanying anxiety, but it became exponentially worse. I became convinced my new boyfriend wanted out of the relationship. I knew rationally this was false but my brain wanted me to think and worry about it and feel the pain and grief it produced. My sleep was awful. I'd lay awake worrying about this, and the physical symptoms increased as well...heat intolerance and cold extremities. I put on clothes, and took them off, pulled my sheets up, and threw them off, all night. During the days, my work started to suffer.

At the same time, I felt my "real self" start to emerge...this was what was incredible. She knew my obsessive thinking was bullsh*t, and she said so. I started journaling intensively and worked through some CBT skills. I went to bed the second night KNOWING I was going to be ok and life wasn't going to implode. I took a sleep supplement. All night my brain FOUGHT sleep. I'd wake up completely foggy and groggy from the sleep med and be like, "What the heck?!" then turn over and fall back into troubled sleep...all night. My obsessive thinking kept coming back to irrational thinking, causing anxiety and panic. My boyfriend was going to break up with me, I'd lose my job, I'd end up destitute, etc. My dreams reflected my confusion and added color and vivid disturbing visual images including torture, death, and apocalyptic weather and events.

The next day I was nearly hypomanic, while continuing the obsessive thinking all day. I had one of my most productive days at work. I was positive, energetic, on top of the world. However, I didn't sleep well again that night.

The day after (yesterday) was one of the worst. I only worked 2 hours and had to stay home the rest of the day. I was physically uncomfortable and mentally unfit. I finally contacted my supervisor and told her I'd need some time off this week - 3 weeks after coming back from FMLA. Yeah, you can imagine how I felt that would go over. I spent the day surfing the internet and reading on this forum and on supportive Facebook sites about withdrawal. I concluded that I shouldn't have tried to do this without a plan in place to handle the incapacitation withdrawal would induce. I need social support in place.

I tried to nap midday. I lay there for 1 1/2 hours without sleeping. Just lay there. I was exhausted and groggy, but sleep wouldn't come. About 2 pm, I decided to try and reinstate a bit. I actually was able to do the math, and reduce the 10% to a 7% taper. I somehow figured out the difference based on what I took that morning and weighed out the dose...a few crumbs! An hour later I felt groggy, but that evening I felt better physically and mentally. That night I took a sleep supplement again and was able to get somewhat restful sleep.

Today (Friday), I have terrible brain fog. I did try to work a little this morning and checked in with my boss. She advised me to take the rest of the day off. We made a plan for me to check with HR to see about more accommodations. I decided to continue to maintain the 10% taper, and not go back to 7% since I started it already and have made it this far, and the withdrawals, while at times are disturbing, have not incapacitated me substantially.

I have today and the weekend to recover. I'm nearly through two weeks of this. I am hoping it will be enough and I can resume a normal workweek next week. I'll have to fudge it somehow if I can't. After this taper I have decided to maintain my dosage until my life changes and I can have in-home social support and until I find a job that can accommodate a flexible schedule. I need to be able to work when I feel well, whether that's 10 pm at night or on Saturday. I also need to do more research and read these forums on this page and make a better plan.

But what's great is that there is a huge positive to this experience, even though the experience was difficult..I can feel my "real self" coming back. This means the me that knows my worth. I know I am worthy whether or not I have a job - this is totally new! I am worthy whether or not I have a boyfriend, or whether or not I have any friends, or whether or not I have a home, money, etc. etc. I am worthy, and awesome, and any employer or mate or friend is privileged to have me in their lives. I have made it through so much. I have made it through pain, and emotional panic...(none of which has ever come true), and my life is relatively secure. I've never ended up hospitalized, or near death, or near homeless, or any of the other things my obsessive brain decides to torture me with. True, I do mostly live alone, and I've done it for 7 years, nearly 8. I made it through a two year pandemic, and still have a job and money in the bank. I have hope for the future. I want to write. I want to go back to school and get a MFA.

February 3, 2022

Update: February 3, 2022. Week three of taper and still suffering significant withdrawal symptoms.

On Tuesday, February 1, these are the symptoms I noted in my withdrawal journal:

Physical:

1) Insomnia and trouble sleeping worsened

2) Feel groggy, sleep deprived

3) Gut issues - some gut-related nausea before breakfast. May be due to diet, I am downing fiber as much as possible to help ameliorate what this stuff does to your digestion, I may have overdone it.

4) Heat intolerance/Hot Flashes (these are NOT menopause related; also no sweating, just hot)

5) Runny nose

6) Cold extremities (hands, nose, feet)

7) Mild brain zaps midday

Mental:

1) Some brain fog, slowness

Emotional:

1) Relatively good mood upon waking: motivated, positive

2) 10 am: I want to go back to bed

Today, Thursday, Feb. 3 - I have horrible brain fog today, and had to take the day off work again. I feel like I am viewing everything through a screen (isn't that called derealization? Huh, I've never had this before). My anxiety about work is heightened, so that I am thinking about work while off the clock and also while trying to sleep. I feel like my stress about work is exacerbating the withdrawal symptoms and making me a less capable employee. Interesting enough, my mood is fine, and physical symptoms (other than a mild headache) are not bad today. I even went out to shovel snow earlier. Talking to HR tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully it will be good news.

March 19, 2022

Update: March 19, 2022

Note: I've been holding my last dose drop since January 17 because of stressors in my life and waiting to feel more stable, but that doesn't seem to be happening. See below for today's journal entry.

I am pretending to be well today so my 16-yr old doesn’t worry. I have bad Effexor side effects/withdrawal symptoms today. I am exhausted, and every time I stand up or move my heart rate goes way up, my nose is freezing, and I have a bad headache that nothing seems to help with. Even Excedrin, which usually does the job. It started last night. I took 2 aspirin for it and a Benadryl to go to sleep, and woke up with it. This morning I took my meds and supplements (Venlafaxine IR, 0.488 g; fish oil, magnesium, Pravastatin 80 mg) at 9 am with food and then some Excedrin, it’s now noon, and I still have the headache and exhaustion.

I don’t know where these awful side effects came from, I haven’t deviated from the schedule much. We had a time change, and so instead of 8 am/pm, I am now taking it at 9 am/pm (Spring Forward). Maybe the latest I took a dose was 12 minutes after the hour. I did change the type of Magnesium I am taking...a different brand. Same stuff. I have been feeling awful all week. Heat intolerance too.

I am ready for another dose drop because of how awful I feel. But I am extremely stressed right now since I’m leaving my job. I can’t even manage to brush my teeth most days, much less maintain healthy strategies like yoga or eating right. The best I can do is radical acceptance, which seems to help a lot, and separating myself from my mean thoughts when I can. My house is a mess and I have no one to help. It’s going to take years to get off this drug - 2 or 3 if I stick to a regular schedule, maybe a decade if I can’t, like now.

I have a buzzing/ringing in my ears. I’m light sensitive. I feel so disabled. And I have so much to do.

Add in twitching, and now the gut nausea.

August 6, 2022

August 6, 2022

Buckle up, here we go....

At the end of March, I left my job. I have been off work for four months with no intention of going back. I am pissed. I am pissed off about everything. I am going through a humongous existential shift that involves quite a bit of self realization, all the while understanding just how exploited I've been all my life. They got me. I was an easy target. I'm talking, of course, about Capitalism and the Pharmaceutical Industry.

Here's a plot twist no one saw coming: I believe now that I am on the autism spectrum. Growing up in the 80s and 90s, of course this was overlooked because I'm a female. Not only did I have a traumatic childhood, but I had a different way of thinking and viewing the world that just made it difficult to be alive. And I didn't understand this until a week ago. At 43 years old. 4 months after leaving a job that was incredibly ableist and ALLOWED TO BE in 2022. F' them.

I do not owe ANYONE a single minute more of my time, effort, or money. Least of all the society I grew up in. I have been exploited to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars. I don't know the exact sum, but I know it is close to this because I was awarded an $80,000 health savings account in my divorce, and guess how long it took that to be gone? 5 years. That went to the insurance companies I didn't understand how to navigate and to the healthcare industry that I recently realized (to my absolute horror) is a business, like everything else. Why did it take me so long to realize this? Well, I am naive, yes. I grew up believing someone was always going to take care of me, and like an idiot, I believed it until my ex divorced me. AND probably because I'm autistic and that means I thought the way society was set up was to HELP the individuals that make it up. I believed this for a very long time, probably because that's what I was taught in school. And for a very very long time I believed if I followed the rules, everything would be ok. Thank you COVID-19 for disabusing me of that knowledge. You know what working for Public Health during the COVID-19 pandemic taught me? That in this country BUSINESSES are more important than people. We gotta save the businesses. Well, they got my money. Now it's my turn....wait, what do you mean no one cares?

Getting back on the subject: Pharmacology made me sick. Instead of accommodations, compassion, and understanding, I was made to believe I was irreparably broken at 19 years old. Years later, my marriage fell apart under this stress. I was taking frickin' psychotropics WHILE PREGNANT at 25 years old because I believed I needed them. (My child is fine. She is wonderful. She is a beautiful 16 year old girl who I realize is also probably on the spectrum, but she is happy and content, despite living in two very different households, because I love her no matter what and I make absolutely sure she knows it every single day.) Even though no one said a word about it after I gave birth, I NOW know that my precious newborn suffered for (at least) a week while she withdrew from the drugs I put into her system while pregnant. So much could have gone wrong. All to make some rich guys more money. There you go. There's my humanity you effers.

Pharmacology made me an anomaly at specialists' offices. I would sit among much more elderly, much sicker people, and when called back, the first thing the doctor (endocrinologist, nephrologist, urologist, etc.) would say would inevitably be, "You're too young to be in this office." I suffered from hypoparathyroidism, which pumped my system full of calcium that could have weakened my bones, and went through surgery to have one removed. I suffered from hypothyroidism, which caused me to sleep 12 hours a day while my toddler played quietly on the floor next to me, and prevented me from getting up for her in the middle of the night (and my spouse resented me for). I suffered from stage 4 chronic kidney disease, which a specialist told me I'd need to have a kidney transplant for some day (at 31) and prevented me from conceiving another child because it would have been unwise, even though we were ready for another. My kid would have enjoyed a sibling.

When I successfully dropped from 300 mg to 243 mg over those months, at first my labs went haywire and I was terrified I was causing more damage to my already compromised organs. But then they settled. There is good news. I no longer have Chronic Kidney Disease. They are ALMOST back to normal functioning. The body has amazing healing properties, and I am young, and very lucky. I still have hypothyroidism, but now take about half the dose I did before.

The bad news is, now that I am taking the instant release Venlafaxine properly, twice a day, I struggle with sexual function. I realized I have never had a normal sex life because when I was put on Prozac at 19, it was before I was sexually active. I was on psychotropics all through my marriage. I am determined to get off this poison before perimenopause hits so I can possibly experience what sex is supposed to feel like. It is incredibly fundamental to humanity. I realize I am incredibly lucky to have lived as long as I have and that I am tremendously privileged, but I am so angry at all I have lost. I could have done so much more with my brilliant self if someone had bothered to really look at me, notice patterns that are glaringly obvious to me now, and handed me the tools to be successful.

These are the tools: COMPASSION, KINDNESS, UNDERSTANDING, "THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. YOU ARE HURT, IN NEED OF HEALING, AND YOU ARE SO, SO, SPECIAL. WE WILL HELP YOU SUCCEED."

Guess what, world? I have done all this almost entirely ALONE.

I am f'in amazing, and I am going to go on to share my story and change lives and do amazing things.

August 18, 2022

August 18, 2022

“I’ve been wondering about your employment situation. How is that going? Well, I hope.”

Here's the response I want to give to this text from a well-wisher (but won't because I don't want to distress him):

“Keeping myself alive while simultaneously poisoning my body with the drugs I am physiologically dependent upon because the pharmaceutical companies successfully marketed their products to the clinicians who treated a young, vulnerable 19-yr old in distress over twenty years ago is pretty much taking up all my time. I’m doing a great job supporting capitalism by continuing to purchase their drug and engaging in our profit-driven healthcare system to ameliorate the damage done to my internal organs. It would be nice to be reimbursed at some point, or even be supported enough financially to break even each month. But currently, I’m living off savings and wondering if I need to take out a loan against my house while I wait for a disability decision.”

Edited August 25, 2022 by ChessieCat
unbolded

August 25, 2022

August 24, 2022

Well, that was a dumb thing for me to write because I triggered myself into an emotional flashback (hallmark CPTSD symptom). I've only ever triggered myself (to my knowledge) once before in writing, and it tends to be dark stuff that sends me there.

I am planning my next taper. I have held on Venlafaxine IR at 0.488 g twice a day since January 17, 2022. Over that time the tolerance withdrawals have come and gone. Interestingly enough, when I got a COVID vax (3rd and 4th doses) I noticed an improvement in everything. But it seems to wear off and I get back to feeling the same way.

My worst symptoms are insomnia (nightly), extreme fatigue, heart palpitations, and high blood pressure. My thyroid, parathyroid, and kidneys were damaged, now I am worried about my heart. I am also restless. Occasionally I suffer from akathisia, but luckily, not very often. It seems to happen when I take another medication - usually to help with sleep, such as Trazodone or Clonadine. I try not to take any medication at night because I will eventually drop off (whether it's at 2:30 or 6:30 am), but when I am super fatigued and ruminating, I will. Sometimes I get a full body type of nausea and then also extreme irritability just because I feel like crap.

Even with the regular schedule of taking the Effexor every morning at 9:30 am with breakfast, I can't seem to get restful sleep. Often, I am so groggy and fatigued I can't get going until 1 pm. I am absolutely useless before then. Sometimes I'll sleep all night and then have to nap during the day, too.

I want to do the taper right this time, and that means plenty of preparation and making sure I have my supports around me. Tomorrow I am seeing a new psychiatric nurse practitioner (at the request of my PCP, who is superbly frustrated at me for bombing her with emails for help). Our healthcare system is a mess. I asked to see an endocrinologist in May, and they finally called me a few weeks ago. My appointment is in November. I also asked for referrals to a cardiologist and a sleep specialist months ago. Haven't heard back. My reason for this is basically to have professional witness to my distress, and any data I can mine. I also want the documentation in place in case I have to apply for disability, which, unfortunately, is seeming more and more likely. I'm hoping any tests or charts I can procure showing the physiological distress I am under can help further research into how to help others like me.

I signed up for support on The Withdrawal Project, and plan to peruse the materials there over the next few weeks. I'm also finding Will Hall's materials extremely validating and helpful.

Coping strategies I find helpful:

1) Being with friends - I find this particularly helpful with my CPTSD (and possible neurodivergence) because being with others seems to help me co-regulate. I feel much calmer and more positive after a social interaction with a friend or friendly person.

2) Hot water - a shower or bath, just feels good.

3) Stretching or yoga, also feels good. Noticing how my body moves.

4) When I can manage it, which unfortunately isn't often, I find that cardio exercise such as running helps for days afterwards. I do take daily walks, but cardio seems to be especially effective.

5) Singing along with music (I have to be in the right place for this)

6) Being out in nature, chasing and documenting critters and plants. Sometimes all it takes is for me to notice one little thing - like the wind blowing through the weeds, or the feel of the sun on my skin, or watching clouds.

7) Rocking - very soothing (especially while in bed) to help with rumination and tolerate distress.

8 ) A "feel good" movie can pull me out of just about anything. But I get stressed trying to choose one. Same with books.

9) Massage.

10) Experimenting with essential oils. My favorites are Rose Geranium and Lavender. I also love Trader Joe's Lemongrass Body Oil and Lavender Bath Body Scrub. Any kind of pampering can help. Probably because it's related to self compassion.

11) Journaling or writing creatively.

12) Pema Chodron: "When Things Fall Apart."

Glennon Doyle "Untamed" and her podcast, "We Can Do Hard Things."

Also, as a 43-yr old woman with CPTSD and possible autism/adhd, I found Hannah Gadsby's memoir "10 Steps to Nanette" extremely validating and powerful

What doesn't help:

1) Acupuncture. I tried it about 5-6 times. It hurts! The only good thing I get out of it is I allow myself to lay quietly for about 45 minutes and feel relaxed during the session, but it doesn't seem to help with my anxiety, stress, or insomnia.

2) Writing negative or dark material, doomsdaying, etc.

3) Scrolling social media. The only thing I find useful out of this are keeping up with other people, funny memes, inspirational or helpful memes, giving and receiving advice from strangers, and occasionally resources. But people are really on there to make money off of you, and I don't appreciate that. It's also easy to find negative/dark material and fall into the pit of adding to it.

4) Supplements. I haven't found any that have made any difference whatsoever.

5) Arguing or interacting with people who think they know better than I do what I should do. This, unfortunately, includes family members and that boyfriend I was with back in March (he WAS thinking of breaking up with me, cause he did), as well as several providers. Look, I am pro-science. I was educated as a scientist. I can read and understand scientific literature. I KNOW how good peer-reviewed stuff is. The problem is, science hasn't caught up to everything yet. There are no peer-reviewed studies on people who've been on these drugs over 20 years. Also, "Woo" stuff all has an element of truthfulness, whether or not it's the placebo effect. The key is to not go to either extreme of: well, science doesn't say it works so it must not be true (the medical establishment is to be trusted at all costs) OR the other, ALL medical advice/findings/science are a big scam or have ulterior motives ($$). Whether or not the motive is $$, medical science does save lives. It just isn't perfect or 100% reliable, because of capitalism. LIVED EXPERIENCE IS VALUABLE.

6) The "Calm" app (yes I paid for a year, dammit) or guided online meditations. Usually my mind flies off in a million different directions, or it's so basic I get bored.

7) Brown or white or any color kind of noise or music for sleep

Edited August 25, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed white space at bottom of post

September 3, 2022

September 2, 2022

Repeat after me, Kay: "I will not start my taper too soon. I will not start my taper too soon. I will not start my taper too soon."

I realize how tremendously sensitive I am to any type of change. Early August I increased my levothyroxine, dropped a fish oil capsule (still take one), and added back a statin due to the health complications I have from being on this drug, and the changes triggered more withdrawals. My goal was to get everything as good as it could be before dropping again. I'm also under a tremendous amount of stress right now in my life because I'm not working (managing my life is work) and starting the process to apply for disability. I'm sick, yet I have to take care of myself and manage my finances. Last night I hit a super low spot and started in on suicidal ideation. I didn't fall asleep until about 5 am and woke up scared and distraught. I finally allowed myself to ask some of my friends for help with cooking. I can't believe how disabled I am at times. It's difficult to prepare food - even just microwave it, because my kitchen is a mess and I can't find things. Every extra step just adds to my distress. Trying to keep my friends in the loop by arranging get-togethers and attending therapist and doctor's appointments can be really hard because my physical and mental states are continually changing. On my good days I sometimes get way ahead of myself and decide I need to tackle healing more of my CPTSD, but this is really hard without help, and can actually make things worse if I'm not ready to deal with the emotions that come out of it.

I checked my tapering schedule today to calculate my dosage for my next drop and counted the years it'll take me to get to zero. Four. Four years. I thought at most it would be 2.

Some days I wish I could be placed in a coma to just let my body rest and recover. Who knew resting could be such hard work?

There are joys to be discovered in this lifetime I can't even begin to fathom.

The stories we tell ourselves matter.

September 3, 2022

1 minute ago, KayC said:

I checked my tapering schedule today to calculate my dosage for my next drop and counted the years it'll take me to get to zero. Four. Four years. I thought at most it would be 2.

The realisation of how long it is going to take can be very ovewhelming. I had a similar thing happen to me. I arrived at SA when I was 58 and was expecting/hoping to be off by 60. My first day at 0mg was the day before my 64th birthday, so a 6 year taper.

But the good news is that during the taper I only experienced minimal withdrawal symptoms and I have now been off successfully for 9.5 months. Even though it took me a long time it was worth it. I noticed that I started being less numb emotionally when my dose reached about 10mg which was about half way through my taper. I started getting more excited about things. I can remember jumping up and down on the spot when I unexpectedly saw some whales when my daughter and I were looking at a second hard car whose owner lived on the coast.

September 26, 2022

September 25, 2022

I just wanted to document what it's like trying to have a normal day with the crushing fatigue Venlafaxine causes. For me, fatigue is one of the most common and most troubling symptoms. For reference, I am still holding at approx 243 mg.

Today is Sunday, and I had an idea to buy and complete Lego sets together with my daughter, who loves Lego. I'm actually focused enough and in a good mood to be able to plan a bit. So today at 2 pm, we set out to drive to our local big box store (don't judge, I'm off work) where we knew they'd have the best variety and price. I asked her to write a list of other items we needed for the week.

It took a bit because we had to decide which ones we wanted without spending too much. Then off to buy food at the other end of the store. I don't know about other countries, but here in the U.S., it is common practice for stores to periodically rearrange the store so people end up walking the aisles looking for items and spending more money on impulse purchases. This is a disaster to someone with fatigue issues. I also was terribly distractable today - the med has caused bad brain fog lately and that seems to make it worse.

Finally we made it to the checkout. I had agreed to buy my daughter's more expensive Lego kit if she halved the price with me. Well, the cashier messed up after my daughter made her payment, and we had to wait for a manager to remedy the situation. I'd already put up with lots of sensory input by this time - kids screaming, a squeaky wheel on a cart, the overhead music, lots of people and carts to navigate around, and at the checkout, my anxiety level was pretty high because I had to concentrate on using two different methods of payment and separating my kid's buy from our groceries. I had my ear plugs in and my neck fan going, but my energy was fading pretty fast, and I could feel myself getting distressed. I found myself wishing for a chair. I was suddenly very exhausted standing there. I rested by fixing my feet firmly on the ground and propping my arms on the cart so I could bend down without it rolling away. I was breathless as well. The people behind us left to go to another line. My daughter kept asking if I was ok and I was too anxious and tired to answer her properly. Finally the manager came and took some time remedying the problem. When it was time to buy my groceries, I needed to squat down on the floor to rest until finally it was time to pay. I knew it would be inappropriate to actually sit down in the checkout lane, but that's what I felt like doing!

I found myself thinking about people who use wheelchairs but are partially ambulatory. Would I have to ask for a wheelchair at some point? What about those grocery carts that are automatic - they seem awfully awkward and slow to navigate, and I preferred to walk while shopping. I decided it might be best for me to find a small camp chair to carry around. When I told my daughter this, she said, "Yeah, but that's a lot to remember to bring to the store." This is true. I have a hard enough time remembering to bring my reusable bags. Executive dysfunction and disability are not easy things to navigate together.

Luckily, we made it home ok and after getting something to eat and drink, I was good as gold. We had fun making our Lego sets together.

October 11, 2022

October 11, 2022

On October 2, 2022 I started my 3rd hyperbolic (10%) taper off Venlafaxine IR. After holding at approx 243 mg (0.488 g 2x/day) for 6 months I felt it was time.

I calculated 10% of my previous dosage weight. My new number is 0.439 g 2x/day, or approximately 219 mg.

Since then, I expected things to follow roughly how my 2nd 10% taper went - the first week mostly mild physical symptoms, and then everything kind of exploding after that with emotional symptoms. However, my life is in a very different place, and things seem to be (I'm crossing my fingers and holding my breath) much milder this time.

The first week down (October 2 - 9), I did notice an elevation in physical distress. I had more days of crushing fatigue. Heart palpitations were more noticeable. I also noticed my inner critic/intrusive thought pattern/anxiety increasing substantially. However, yesterday and today that seems to have lightened somewhat. I feel "looser" inside my body and in my mind. I feel settled and able to see things/plan things with more intention and clarity. I have also been able to fall asleep without aids a few times this week.

I've been following the withdrawal community on Twitter a bit. A few weeks ago, Newsweek released an article about a study showing antidepressants are only about 15% more effective than placebo. This made me think about the power of the placebo effect in our lives. I have long believed many supplements were effective primarily due to the placebo effect, since they aren't regulated at all and the studies done are few and far between to prove their effectiveness. So much of what we consume in this society is directly influenced by marketing. Pharmaceuticals and supplements are no different. In poking around reading about the placebo effect, I came upon another concept called the "nocebo" effect. Basically the opposite. If we don't believe something is going to work, or believe it will harm us, it will. The more I vilify and hate this drug, no matter what the facts, it is quite possible the narrative I believe about it will make my experience coming off much worse than it needs to be. Can I do a reverse nocebo effect? Can I believe that I am healing, becoming my true self, breaking through, and refuse to engage in the (very valid) fear-based messages out there: the horror stories. After all, I have my own horror story, but my life isn't over yet.

After I emerged out of the difficult weekend of loneliness and fatigue that made it very difficult to get out of bed, my inner critic/intrusive thoughts/anxiety tampered down a bit. It came to a bit of a boiling point in about 2 in the morning when she was mulling over SI again. And then something came through, saying, "This is ridiculous. You are doing this to yourself. I don't want to die. I don't. It's not going to happen." I consciously decided to detach myself from the thoughts because they made no sense. I said, "You are being demoted. My BODY knows the truth. She is here, now. She is safe. She is alive. Our heart is beating. She will persist as long as SHE wants to. You are no longer in charge." And I wanted to laugh, because it was true. No matter what the horrible thoughts my mind threw at me, she didn't have the power to destroy me because my body was going to persist. My mind gave up a long time ago on this life. She said, "This is too much. I don't want to do this." But my body won't cooperate.

I read that fall is the time to withdraw and rest. That women were meant to take nourishment during the dark times in order to be able to continue to perpetuate new life. In my support group, our facilitator said in order to be able to best share our gifts with the world, we need to focus on nurturing ourselves so we can continue. I've taken the concept of nourishment to heart. I focus a little bit at a time on what feeds me, both literally and figuratively.

I am so grateful I've been able to find a small pocket of peace during this process. I just need to continue to trust myself.

October 14, 2022

October 13, 2022

Today is the 11th day since I dropped and the physical symptoms have worsened. I am incredibly fatigued, my chest aches - I can't tell if it's my lungs or my heart, the palpitations are almost painful. I've taken 1/2 a Clonidine to help ameliorate them around 7 pm today and yesterday. I found this helps, although last time I dropped I tried Clonidine for sleep and it only gave me akathisia the next day. I also had a headache upon waking. It went away with some generic Excedrin (caffeine + aspirin + tylenol).

I was obligated to go out today, even though I tried to get out of it, and in the short meeting I had to attend, I was short of breath and found myself breathing heavily. I felt very cranky and close to tears all day. No appetite, no motivation to do anything other than sit on the couch and read or surf social media. Some nausea. I watched a movie this evening and found I had trouble focusing my eyes for a short bit.

I'm glad I am still functional enough to care for and entertain myself. But I can't manage to clean the house, walk my dog, or get out to do much at the moment, and this is demoralizing.

October 17, 2022

Hi KayC,

Last taper was October 2nd, to 219 mg of Venlafaxine and a 10% taper.

I'm taking that from your signature.

And just want you to know someone is reading.

Is this typical of your after taper time line and symptoms?

Clonodine is a BP medication. Do you typically have high BP(blood pressure)?

And if taken regularly will require tapering.

Here's our topic:

Tapering BetaBlockers or AlphaBlockers

And none of this is meant to be demoralizing KayC. Geeze, proofing it.......it can read that way. You are trooping along. It's a bear when we can't do all we would like to due to WD symptoms. I mean having to rest, and sometimes letting things pile up. It gets better, and will for you. Hugs.

Any luck with the 2 supplements that we do recommend for tapering. Many find them calming. And if you haven't started or tried either yet, just start with one, at a low dose, and then increase while making observations all along. So that you know what helps. Many of us do have hypersensitive systems too, once exposed to the psychoactives, and then with WD.......so stick with one change at a time, one single ingredient, etc.

BASIC SUPPLEMENT TOOLKIT

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

The rule of 3KI's simple, slow, stable

And then.....stability or WDstability is good to read about too. You don't want to taper when other stressors are happening......real life hardships, or moves, or new jobs, etc. I used to think that if life was hard the solution was to get off my drug or drug(s) only to find that made it far more difficult. Then I got it, more or less, that if I was to succeed off medications/drugs I had to find new ways of dealing with challenges, other than trying a new drug, or getting off a current drug. I'm a slow learner myself I think.

And then......you could always consider micro-tapering and/or the brassmonkeyslide method of tapering

Go to the first post in the underlined links first too please. You'll see the links to tapering by less than 10%, in the first post of the brassmonkey slide topic. Some of my links seem to take members to the last post instead of the first......so I'll work on changing some setting........and you may have to scroll back to the first topics for now, when you check a link.

Okay, thanks for updating so nicely all along the way. And you ARE doing well. I read you doing things when you don't at all feel like it. Good quality to have.

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited October 17, 2022 by manymoretodays
additional

October 20, 2022

October 20, 2022

The fatigue is incredible. I've never felt so disabled in my life. Yet my mind keeps churning and churning.

It is approx 2.5 weeks since I dropped.

I'm considering finding a home for my dog. She doesn't deserve to be depressed.

Am I doing this right by replying to my own entries and responses like above?

Thank you for the response! It is heartening to know someone is reading and following. I do admit at the beginning I felt a little buried.

I don't know what is typical anymore because the first two 10% drops were a huge mess. I was learning as I went and then life imploded on me as I was being forced out of my job and broken up with at the same time. Lots of rage then. Now it's just heart palpitations and immense fatigue. Now, active withdrawal doesn't seem too much different from when I was holding for the last 6 months. There has been no stability.

Effexor gave me high blood pressure. I still haven't been treated for it, per se, because my providers dismiss it as appointment anxiety every time I go in, and the healthcare system is so broken I;ve been waiting for a referral for a cardiologist to go through for over a year. So, on my own.

A previous Psych Nurse gave me Clonidine for my presenting anxiety while I was tapering. The fact it was a blood pressure medication was secondary, but I'm finding it helpful when the palpitations become too much. Although it has triggered akathisia at least twice. Am I spelling that right? Akathisia? I get red underlines. I think that's right. Effexor is also underlined in red. I only take it when I feel I really need it - definitely not daily. Same with anything else I take except the Levothyroxine and Pravastatin.

I do take a supplement - a high dose fish oil. I haven't found it or the magnesium I tried to make any difference whatsoever to my moods or physical symptoms. The fish oil did seem to lower my triglycerides for a bit but when I stopped the statin for a period of 6 months, all that went haywire. Effexor, of course, causes high cholesterol as well. The supplements are expensive.

I don't believe in supplements, so that may be the issue, lol. Placebo effect and all.

My life is incredibly stressful, but I see no way out but through. I live alone, I have no family other than my daughter, in a rural area two hours drive away from any "major" city or area. I alone am responsible for keeping myself alive and safe, which means procuring and preparing my own food, household supplies, cleaning and maintaining my house, caring for two cats and a dog, driving to appointments, seeing friends, filling medications, gathering information for my disability case (which I have postponed twice already), filling out paperwork for government aid, being here emotionally for my 17-yr old daughter and navigating co-parenting with a very unsupportive ex, and trying to do my own version of "work" so I feel I have some purpose other than keeping myself alive. This week it was clearing out old emails. And one of them stirred up some old trauma resulting in a spectacular breakdown in my new therapist's office. I have been trying to meet people through dating apps for months, but I think people have dating-app fatigue because no one seems to be trying too hard, and I worry that I'm really too much of a burden for anyone to take on. Who wants to date an unemployed disabled person? The last guy found it too much.

Some days I feel like I'm only here to be an example for other people....witnessing my life will help others. I feel I have so much love to give and no one to give it to. I am extremely disheartened by the actions and progress of my country and how it has treated other people. I don't feel I belong here.

Wow, this is super depressing, but it is my life. After I gave my therapist in training some good practice, I came home and went through a box of stuff I've kept from my childhood. Report cards, certificates, rewards, art, poetry, my journals. I did everything right. That's all I have to say. I did everything right. I never fell into illicit drugs or alcohol. I was a good girl. I still am. Still, it's not enough. It never was.

I've been thinking a lot about veterans lately. Our country glorifies them, and at the same time, completely abandons them. But what about our other public servants? Our teachers, public health workers, emergency medical personnel, social workers, therapists. They are underpaid, overlooked, and now, even vilified. I have experienced this first hand and seen my colleagues and friends suffer horrible bullying. The eager, young, freshly graduated set is not experienced enough to handle the huge crisis of NEED the people in my country are suffering.

My daughter was selected for homecoming royalty, so I was obliged to go to the school and support her by attending their parade. I forgot they have the color guard and military display in front of every parade. I could not, in good conscience, stand for the flag. So I sat on the curb. People icily stared at me. I didn't plan to protest, and doing so has caused me emotional flashbacks in the past because it stirs up all kinds of crap about being "bad" through and through. But I had to. For what good? Really, though? Later, an older man with a veteran's hat walked by me and glared at me. Thankfully no one confronted me. I felt so alone and out of place. I cheered on my daughter when her caravan went by and did all the things a proud mama is supposed to do. Then I went home and couldn't get out of bed for two days.

But I have been writing - yay! And inside I am still that girl who did all those amazing things while in school. She's alive and well. I cope by connecting to people and providing emotional support and encouragement as much as I can. I have shared my story and struggles on social media, as well as my writing and art in bits and pieces. I have friends here who check on me when they can and who I, in turn, check on as well. So many of us are struggling. I don't know anyone who isn't. I have started unmasking in public and the world doesn't blow up when I am unconventional (inside, my girl goes, YES YES!!!).

My heart - the beautiful thing - is in charge of keeping me alive. As long as she is beating, I will continue. The drug is stressing her out like crazy, so I put my hand over her....right between my breasts, because, dangit, that's where she is, not above...and say, hang on there, I love you, you got this. If my high blood pressure kills me, if I have a heart attack, if I have a stroke, it will have been the drug and societal neglect that did it. I release control and worry. I did everything right, after all.

What I find helpful:

1) Music: Blue Skies by Noah and The Whale, Hands by Jewel, etc.

I have made a playlist on Spotify called "Music for Hope"

2) Watching/witnessing Gen Z break the mold, be unapologetically themselves, and incredible. I have so much love and hope for our young people. They are claiming happiness NOW.

3) Writing and drawing - and especially sharing this with others.

4) Audiobooks - they help me get out of my head.

5) Yoga Nidra - when I can't sleep, nothing is better than doing something that is supposed to help you get the rest you need.

6) Cherishing my body: hot water, massage, nourishment in the form of food (any kind, even CAKE....fed is best), water with electrolytes, tea, essential oils, walking, gentle movement by stretching and yoga. Immediately addressing her needs (bathroom, food, etc.).

I remind myself to check in with what my body needs in the moment with a chime on my phone. If I don't need anything, I just take a deep breath.

7) ALLOWING. My life is chaos. My sleep is chaos. If I fight it, it gets MUCH worse. If my body wants to be wide awake and active between 11 pm and 3 am, who am I to deny it this rare opportunity to do stuff?

😎 Connecting with similar people online....neurodivergent, artists, those in the withdrawal community, writers, activists. People who have the courage to be vulnerable and share their lives and pain to strangers.

Did I answer all the questions? I'm tired now and must sign off.

October 22, 2022

On 10/20/2022 at 12:54 PM, KayC said:

Am I doing this right by replying to my own entries and responses like above?

Thank you for the response! It is heartening to know someone is reading and following. I do admit at the beginning I felt a little buried.

Hi KayC,

Yes this is fine. And you are a great writer. I can relate to parts there too. Especially post divorce, and my son/Sun was at a similar age to your daughters.....just a little younger, and how alone or much I felt like a single parent........ and tough it was. And teaching my therapist about WD and tapering and drugs- check.

And then actually feeling and being dis-abled(mis-labeled too) for so long- check.

I don't know that I asked many questions......just wanted to share information with you, if you had not seen or found it yet, and offer support.

Excellent coping skills.

Keep on updating. You could also offer support to some of the other members if or when you feel up to that. Effexor is a tough one, and......can be kind of a long lonely journey off of it too, if you don't find your people. Good people here KayC.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited October 22, 2022 by manymoretodays

October 24, 2022

On 3/19/2022 at 8:13 PM, KayC said:

I also have obsessive thinking and rumination....that's part and parcel of the PTSD, our brains are literally damaged. I use radical acceptance to help with that "I'm ok...this is ok. I just am" and mindfulness....it really helps, if you are able, to separate yourself from your thoughts instead of identifying with them. This is harder than it sounds, I know. But when I can, I say, "These are just thoughts, my brain is lying to me, thanks brain! I am actually ok. I am safe. My body is safe."

Hey I hope you don't mind me checking in to see how things are with you now. I also have trauma; however mine is from adverse effects of prescribed medication (see my signature). I was doing well for a good few years; however antidepressant withdrawal has triggered me big time and I'm really struggling with obsessive intrusive thinking and rumination. I genuinely feel my brain is permanently damaged now. Your advice is really helpful, thanks.

October 25, 2022

Update for October 24, 2022

Three weeks down and I'm starting to feel better. About three days ago I noticed a decline in the fatigue and heart palpitations, and then I had a massive emotional depressive episode yesterday. They have happened all my life, appear out of nowhere for absolutely no particular reason, and last just one day. I equivocate it to being in physical agony, there is no other way to describe it, just aching, horrible emotional despair, and little does to help. Anyway, THAT is over, thank goodness. Today I feel motivated and back on track. I am so relieved this withdrawal period seemed to follow what other people experience. I am going to hang out another two weeks - this week just to sit, and the next week to prepare. I may get some lab work done at this time, and I am going to try a different supplement. I am currently taking 1 gel of "Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega 2x". These are high quality, however, they are relatively pricey and seem not to have much effect other than reducing triglycerides.

I found the supplement recommendation through "Effexor Should be Illegal" FB page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/221442677940995), in a file curated by Ann Blake-Tacey. The supplement may help support my high cholesterol issue as well as the Omega 3 support. I checked with my PCP, and she said it was worth a try. In my experience, changing dosages or adding anything else will set me off again into withdrawals, so I figure the 5th week after my last drop is a safe enough time to try it. Fingers crossed.

October 25, 2022

17 hours ago, conkaia said:

Hey I hope you don't mind me checking in to see how things are with you now. I also have trauma; however mine is from adverse effects of prescribed medication (see my signature). I was doing well for a good few years; however antidepressant withdrawal has triggered me big time and I'm really struggling with obsessive intrusive thinking and rumination. I genuinely feel my brain is permanently damaged now. Your advice is really helpful, thanks.

Thank you for reaching out! @conkaia. I am glad what i write here can be of comfort to others in the same journey. I'm sorry you are struggling. I do relate heavily to the rumination issue. It gets worse when I am under stress, and antidepressant withdrawal is a big one.

I seem to remember that before the pandemic, I thought I had nipped the rumination problem in the bud. There have been a few times in my life I know I felt like things were going really well (and all my problems were behind me, HA). In 2019 I had finished some intense trauma therapy with the only effective therapist I'd ever seen - a lot of somatic work, EMDR, DBT, CBT and so on. Basically the lady taught me to love myself, which was incredible. My lifelong social anxiety disappeared and I no longer loathed myself. It took about three years. I found what I thought was a great job. I tapered off Abilify and Lamictal and had done some trial runs of getting off Effexor, which failed. Then the pandemic hit and shredded a lot of that good work apart. The pandemic itself was super traumatic, and I was feeling AWFUL on the Effexor. Anyway, long story short, the rumination etc came back full force and is still my biggest cross to bear.

I'm just coming out of my third hyperbolic taper and struggling a lot. But, it's one foot in front of the other, day after day, and trying to reduce as much stress as possible from my life. I take hope from stories from other survivors and the doctors who witness them who say people DO gradually get better. I myself have experienced this healing first hand with my kidneys. Polydrugging ruined my kidneys. I was diagnosed with Stage 4 kidney failure and told I'd have to have a transplant in my future at age 31! After dropping the culprit (Lithium) and monitoring over the past ten or so years, my kidneys slowly improved. After my second hyperbolic taper of Effexor, I was astonished to see my labs return almost to normal. I no longer have Chronic Kidney Disease. They have healed themselves! WHOOT WHOOT!

I also know from the intense therapy I did that the brain is super plastic. My social anxiety was debilitating. I was labeled "quiet" and nearly every social interaction was AGONIZING. Then after the work with my therapist and the pandemic, suddenly I can't stop talking in meetings. I am one of those people everyone else finds super exasperating because it's yabber yabber yabber. Lol. I HAVE to talk now. If I don't talk to people for a few days, my mental health takes a HUGE nose dive. I don't think my high school classmates and teachers would recognize me, seriously. THIS gives me huge hope that my brain CAN and WILL completely heal after I get off this crap. Eventually I will have my whole self back. I am so excited.

I have days, too, when I feel like I will never get there and I am permanently damaged. But I am a fierce fighter. My inner child wants to have the freedom the adult world promised her, and she's ready to put in the work. I find self-compassion to be my biggest ally. Want to eat a whole cake in 24 hours? Go for it. Feel like staying awake until 3 am because fighting the insomnia is just too much? That's ok too. Need to leave a social engagement or event early? Yup, do it. For the first time in my life I'm just fully allowing my big messy self to BE. I think this is what will save me.

Hang in there. ❤️

October 26, 2022

On 10/25/2022 at 4:06 AM, KayC said:

Thank you for reaching out! @conkaia. I am glad what i write here can be of comfort to others in the same journey. I'm sorry you are struggling. I do relate heavily to the rumination issue. It gets worse when I am under stress, and antidepressant withdrawal is a big one.

I seem to remember that before the pandemic, I thought I had nipped the rumination problem in the bud. There have been a few times in my life I know I felt like things were going really well (and all my problems were behind me, HA). In 2019 I had finished some intense trauma therapy with the only effective therapist I'd ever seen - a lot of somatic work, EMDR, DBT, CBT and so on. Basically the lady taught me to love myself, which was incredible. My lifelong social anxiety disappeared and I no longer loathed myself. It took about three years. I found what I thought was a great job. I tapered off Abilify and Lamictal and had done some trial runs of getting off Effexor, which failed. Then the pandemic hit and shredded a lot of that good work apart. The pandemic itself was super traumatic, and I was feeling AWFUL on the Effexor. Anyway, long story short, the rumination etc came back full force and is still my biggest cross to bear.

I'm just coming out of my third hyperbolic taper and struggling a lot. But, it's one foot in front of the other, day after day, and trying to reduce as much stress as possible from my life. I take hope from stories from other survivors and the doctors who witness them who say people DO gradually get better. I myself have experienced this healing first hand with my kidneys. Polydrugging ruined my kidneys. I was diagnosed with Stage 4 kidney failure and told I'd have to have a transplant in my future at age 31! After dropping the culprit (Lithium) and monitoring over the past ten or so years, my kidneys slowly improved. After my second hyperbolic taper of Effexor, I was astonished to see my labs return almost to normal. I no longer have Chronic Kidney Disease. They have healed themselves! WHOOT WHOOT!

I also know from the intense therapy I did that the brain is super plastic. My social anxiety was debilitating. I was labeled "quiet" and nearly every social interaction was AGONIZING. Then after the work with my therapist and the pandemic, suddenly I can't stop talking in meetings. I am one of those people everyone else finds super exasperating because it's yabber yabber yabber. Lol. I HAVE to talk now. If I don't talk to people for a few days, my mental health takes a HUGE nose dive. I don't think my high school classmates and teachers would recognize me, seriously. THIS gives me huge hope that my brain CAN and WILL completely heal after I get off this crap. Eventually I will have my whole self back. I am so excited.

I have days, too, when I feel like I will never get there and I am permanently damaged. But I am a fierce fighter. My inner child wants to have the freedom the adult world promised her, and she's ready to put in the work. I find self-compassion to be my biggest ally. Want to eat a whole cake in 24 hours? Go for it. Feel like staying awake until 3 am because fighting the insomnia is just too much? That's ok too. Need to leave a social engagement or event early? Yup, do it. For the first time in my life I'm just fully allowing my big messy self to BE. I think this is what will save me.

Hang in there. ❤️

Thank you so much for this very helpful reply 🥰

You sound really positive and your journey is very inspiring! Self-compassion is a tool I'm becoming reacquainted with; I'm finding it really helpful and am actually having a better few days since I last posted.

Much love to you on your continued recovery!

October 27, 2022

Update October 27, 2022

I spoke too soon about the withdrawals being over at week 3. I've had a couple more days of severe fatigue, and one with uncomfortable heart palps again. In addition, today I am extremely irritable. And twitchy. The brain fog is severe as well. It probably doesn't help that I am still very busy with appointments and errands. My car needed an oil change Tuesday, and they could only get me in right before my counseling appointment - which I can't cancel less than 24 hrs ahead of time without being fined. The counselor is newish and it was a frustrating session in that I was starting to process trauma actively when he insisted it was time to go, twice. I can't just STOP. I need to finish crying, please. Wednesday I had to be ready with a slew of data for my disability application phone call with a lawyer. I'd put it off twice already, and had used up a lot of mental energy being anxious. Then I had to pick up a medication, shop for groceries, fill the car with gas, and pick up my daughter from theater practice. I was so exhausted I fell asleep rather early - 10:30 pm, but I kept waking up through the night, and then all day today felt half alive. I was supposed to have another appointment today, but had to cancel. It's the third time I've cancelled that particular appointment and I'm crossing my fingers the provider won't give up on me.

October 29, 2022

On 10/28/2022 at 12:46 AM, KayC said:

Update October 27, 2022

I spoke too soon about the withdrawals being over at week 3. I've had a couple more days of severe fatigue, and one with uncomfortable heart palps again. In addition, today I am extremely irritable. And twitchy. The brain fog is severe as well. It probably doesn't help that I am still very busy with appointments and errands. My car needed an oil change Tuesday, and they could only get me in right before my counseling appointment - which I can't cancel less than 24 hrs ahead of time without being fined. The counselor is newish and it was a frustrating session in that I was starting to process trauma actively when he insisted it was time to go, twice. I can't just STOP. I need to finish crying, please. Wednesday I had to be ready with a slew of data for my disability application phone call with a lawyer. I'd put it off twice already, and had used up a lot of mental energy being anxious. Then I had to pick up a medication, shop for groceries, fill the car with gas, and pick up my daughter from theater practice. I was so exhausted I fell asleep rather early - 10:30 pm, but I kept waking up through the night, and then all day today felt half alive. I was supposed to have another appointment today, but had to cancel. It's the third time I've cancelled that particular appointment and I'm crossing my fingers the provider won't give up on me.

I’m sorry to hear this, have things settled down a bit for you now? I had a reasonable couple of days then got floored by a vile intrusive thought yesterday. So feel back to square one again. This is relentless.

November 3, 2022

November 3, 2022 (4.5 weeks since my last 10% hyperbolic drop)

Update on withdrawal symptoms/side effects since last post:

- I had a couple of emotional breakdowns, about a week apart. I was able to use one to process some trauma, which was a surprising and welcome event (even though it was very painful)

- Physical symptoms are less intense, but still very present. Every day is a crap shoot.

- Add on: lingering chest pain and elevated tinnitus in my left ear

- Withdrawal symptoms combined with PMS makes for a very explosive day indeed - BUT I have plenty to rage about, so I go ahead and scream, swear, kick dirt and get it out the best I can. 😂

I really wanted to write today to describe what I realize is my "work" during this time. I am, of course, unable to do any kind of supervised, "gainful employment" (as they say) - ie. be on someone else's clock, or even my own to bring in income. But that doesn't mean I don't work. I work every day as a single mom living alone for one, BUT I also have what I see as very important work, even my duty, to educate medical professionals about the ravages of psychiatric drugs. I didn't really even take this on consciously - I just felt I had to do it, while also giving them all a second, third, or fourth chance to "get it right."

It has been about ten years since I saw an Endocrinologist. In 2008 I was on Lithium, Lamotrigine, Effexor, and possibly also Abilify - that last one may have come in later. Anyway, I was heavily dosed. When you're on that many psychotropics, regular blood work is necessary, and my labs started coming back abnormally for thyroid function. At this point, I'd already undergone two surgeries - one to remove my gallbladder, and one to remove a parathyroid. I was 30 yrs old and in otherwise excellent health, with no family history of thyroid issues.

(I had suspected at the time that my meds may have caused my parathyroid abnormality, but that was brushed off by the medical professionals, even though there were articles showing Lithium can cause issues. "That's not the most common cause." Did they ever try to find out the cause for me, personally? Well, no. This detail is important as it factors into my recent visit about my thyroid.)

Back in February 2022, after my second hyperbolic taper, my labwork came back with some concerning (to me) numbers. It appeared my thyroid and kidneys weren't happy about the stress I was putting my body through by tapering. This was one reason I stopped and waited 6 more months before dropping, but i also insisted on getting specialists - an Endocrinologist and a Nephrologist "in" on my taper journey. A month or two later, my numbers evened out, but the referral for an Endo was taking forever to go through.

Fast forward to yesterday, November 3, 2022 - I finally saw my new Endocrinologist. I had to drive two hours away and stay overnight because my fatigue won't allow a safe four-hour round trip anymore, and she insisted on seeing me in person (this is a HUGE access issue for those of us who live in poor rural areas, but that's another soapbox).

To prepare for the appointment, I filled out (by hand) their intake paperwork they had sent by mail, which required looking up dates for surgeries and other minutia us "chronically-ill" folks have to fill out again and again. AND, signing in to, and filling out info (the same, in many cases) on their online portal. This was really nice because I was able to think about what I wanted my new Endo to know ahead of time and the questions I had. Kudos to the medical system for getting onboard with online stuff - even if it has a long way to go.

Then I had to find a place for my dog to board, get the house secure, make sure the cats were ok for an overnight, pack, ready my car with gas and supplies, book a hotel, and then drive the 122 miles.

During the visit, I told the Endo a brief history, that I had been on a heavy dose of psych drugs and started having medical problems. I mentioned the parathyroid surgery and said I thought it was because of the Lithium. She interrupted me, and said, "That's very very uncommon. Most of the time it just happens and we don't know why." O-kay. (Well, maybe it's uncommon because it hasn't been studied? BUT, I'm no doctor. Then again, this sounds very much like "same song, second verse" to me 😑). THEN I said I believed the Lithium had caused my hypothyroidism. There are articles on that, too, and now even mentioned on public medical websites*. Here are a couple:

"9 Medications that are Toxic to Your Thyroid" https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/9-medications-toxic-thyroid/

"Lithium is accumulated at highly concentrated levels in the thyroid gland (at 3 to 4-fold higher concentrations as compared to its plasma levels). It has been found to inhibit synthesis and release of thyroid hormones, and may lead to increased destruction of thyroid cells….results in an increase in TSH production”

United States National Library of Medicine : https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9827658/

“Lithium is concentrated by the thyroid and inhibits ....thyroid hormone secretion. The latter effect is critical to the development of hypothyroidism”

*caveat on public medical websites: there's a LOT of misinformation out there, especially since alternative methods (supplements, etc.) are not regulated at all. Best to stick to studies. But sometimes layperson language is just easier to understand, and I found the one I quoted above jived with other sites, so I felt ok about posting it here. (Also, sometimes the alternative methods are legit - it's just good to be critical and beware of outrageous claims not found anywhere else.)

She asked if I'd been tested for Hashimoto's, because THAT was the most common cause of hypothyroidism. My original Endocrinologist never mentioned anything about Hashimoto's back when I developed hypothyroidism in 2008, and I thought my PCP had ordered a test for it before I started my first taper in November 2021 (because I asked for it. Turns out, she ordered the wrong test 🙄). So I got a blooddraw for TPO Ab, or antibodies that would show I had developed autoimmunity - ie. Hashimoto's. Labs would return in 24-48 hours.

Guess what it came back as when I checked this morning?

Negative.

My TPO was 8, which is within the "normal" or "expected" range. Anything below 9 means you don't have Hashimoto's.

This is what I expected.

I came home from the appointment yesterday feeling exhausted, of course, because of the trip and mental energy involved with preparing, but I was also sad. It's been over ten years since I last saw an Endo and nothing has changed. This same information I quoted above was available back then as well. I remember my last Endo saying, "You may just have run-of-the-mill hypothyroidism."

Why so much resistance? It makes me doubt myself because I am not a medical professional, and I HAVE made wrong assumptions before. For instance, I had to recently cut my dose of Levothyroxine in HALF in order to keep from going hyperthyroid. I thought maybe it meant my thyroid was healing. But I didn't know the dosage of Levo is based on weight, and I had just lost about 30 lbs.

This reminded me how much we humans like to have our stories tied up in a little bow. It's so hard to hold two conflicting truths at the same time. It's so hard to just not know. At least for me. It's important for me to know WHY these things are happening to my body. It's important because I have a relationship with my body that needs to be cultivated and respected. My mind thinks she runs the show, so I'm trying to get them on the same page so I don't dissociate so much. If I can get my mind to stick to a story about my body she finds fascinating, I'm more likely to tune in to how my body actually feels. So I had to experience a little cognitive dissonance for a few days. Maybe I'm just WRONG about my theory that these drugs hurt my organs. Ok. I will entertain that thought for a bit. Sure. I'll give them another chance to give me hope that maybe they know something I don't.

But then this happens. I want to say, "I told you so" and stamp my foot. 😜 (Just a little.)

Then I take a deep breath, and remember, this is my work now. My new Endo has probably never met another patient whose endocrine system has been ravaged by psych drugs and is educated about it. Now that she's seen the facts, the science coming back from my lab work, she might pause the next time she sees another patient and ask, "Are you on any psychotropic drugs?" when the TPO comes back negative for Hashimoto's, and may be able to save someone's organs from damage before it's too late. I hope so.

November 8, 2022

On 10/29/2022 at 7:05 AM, conkaia said:

I’m sorry to hear this, have things settled down a bit for you now? I had a reasonable couple of days then got floored by a vile intrusive thought yesterday. So feel back to square one again. This is relentless.

I'm finding it hard to distinguish between active withdrawal and my tolerance withdrawal patterns during "holding." I'm now onto week 6, and a couple days ago, I was floored again with fatigue. My chest seems to be hurting more. I don't know if it's my lungs or my heart, but it's an uncomfortable sort of feeling of heaviness and dull pain.

Today feels different, better, in that I feel like I've achieved a bit more clarity in my life. I'm trying to find a balance between allowing my head to lead (which it would like to do 100% of the time) and allowing my body to lead. Allowing my body to lead takes a bit more concentration and dedicated attention. But when I'm able to achieve that, I can really live in the moment and experience joy. I am convinced that obtaining this balance is the key to my wellness. I also decided I want to live a life of intention. On my good days, I am often overwhelmed with possibilities and "to do's." They never end! I could fill notebooks full of the things I want to do. Living a life of intention means not giving in and trying to do them all, but choosing what things I really want to do.

It's been hard to know what I really want to do, because even though something may sound fun, the meds have suppressed what actually is fun for me. In withdrawing I've been able to rediscover simple pleasures I wasn't able to enjoy before! For instance, last week I stayed overnight in a hotel and went to sit in the spa. I was astonished how wonderful it felt. I remember many times when I was so bored just sitting in the water, puzzled why it held no appeal for me.

I know what you mean about relentless. Going on week 6 now, and I'm thinking of holding a bit longer. If I keep doing this, it will take longer than 4 yrs to finally get off. I don't like the idea of that. But I need to trust my intuition - I know that much!

I am planning on trying a different supplement once I get some more lab work done. Have you found the supplements you take to make a difference? I see you are on quite a few. Hope things improve for you soon.

November 16, 2022

On 11/8/2022 at 3:54 AM, KayC said:

I'm finding it hard to distinguish between active withdrawal and my tolerance withdrawal patterns during "holding." I'm now onto week 6, and a couple days ago, I was floored again with fatigue. My chest seems to be hurting more. I don't know if it's my lungs or my heart, but it's an uncomfortable sort of feeling of heaviness and dull pain.

Today feels different, better, in that I feel like I've achieved a bit more clarity in my life. I'm trying to find a balance between allowing my head to lead (which it would like to do 100% of the time) and allowing my body to lead. Allowing my body to lead takes a bit more concentration and dedicated attention. But when I'm able to achieve that, I can really live in the moment and experience joy. I am convinced that obtaining this balance is the key to my wellness. I also decided I want to live a life of intention. On my good days, I am often overwhelmed with possibilities and "to do's." They never end! I could fill notebooks full of the things I want to do. Living a life of intention means not giving in and trying to do them all, but choosing what things I really want to do.

It's been hard to know what I really want to do, because even though something may sound fun, the meds have suppressed what actually is fun for me. In withdrawing I've been able to rediscover simple pleasures I wasn't able to enjoy before! For instance, last week I stayed overnight in a hotel and went to sit in the spa. I was astonished how wonderful it felt. I remember many times when I was so bored just sitting in the water, puzzled why it held no appeal for me.

I know what you mean about relentless. Going on week 6 now, and I'm thinking of holding a bit longer. If I keep doing this, it will take longer than 4 yrs to finally get off. I don't like the idea of that. But I need to trust my intuition - I know that much!

I am planning on trying a different supplement once I get some more lab work done. Have you found the supplements you take to make a difference? I see you are on quite a few. Hope things improve for you soon.

Hi Kay sorry I just noticed your reply. Good on you going to a hotel and spa, this sounds so much fun! Its already taken me four years to taper from 15mg to 2mg Lexapro and I'm going to have to hold for the foreseeable if I ever stabilise. I've been taking supplements for many years prior to WD so its hard to say if they're making much of a difference. Maybe I'd have been worse without them, who knows? How are you now?

November 24, 2022

November 23, 2022 Update

Not sure how many weeks along I am now. For awhile I was waiting to get blood work done to see if my cholesterol had improved and if my kidneys had stressed over the drop, but it requires me to do fasting labs, which requires me to not eat for 12 hrs and then get up in the morning to go to the clinic, and I can't seem to be able to manage that. The sleep issue is really screwing that up. Now I'm just waiting for Thanksgiving to be over.

I have had a persistent headache and brain fog all day today, even though I drank plenty of water yesterday and have been working on improving healthy habits like walking daily, getting 15 minutes of sunlight, yoga, and meditation. Holidays always carry their particular brand of stress since I consider myself an adult orphan of sorts and have spent many alone and in despair. I continue to test out and try coping mechanisms, but sometimes nothing seems to be the cause and nothing helps.

One thing I am trying to be more intentional about is incorporating some sort of "fun" in my life. Play has been worked out of us adults, and the drug consistently snuffed out any kind of enjoyment I might have experienced from various activities, so I got out of the habit of doing things for pleasure. Yesterday, I played a silly board game designed for kids that involved dancing. Then I looked up how to dance the cha cha! I am terribly uncoordinated and have a hard time with verbal instructions, but I felt better just trying it. Then I researched the origin of the cha cha and played the music on a loop for about an hour. Going down rabbitholes is a huge form of pleasure for me. Later I went outside on a walk and made a point to hop, skip, crunch ice, and explore to my neurodivergent heart's content. I was so, so fatigued, all day, but concentrating on this helped pull me out of that and did allow a few hours of glee!

I realize that managing fatigue doesn't involve lying down all day. The last time I tried that, I ruminated myself into suicidal ideation. It involves lots of rest, yes, but also short bursts of manageable activity. Distraction is a valuable coping mechanism.

I ordered an electric pill grinder today. I usually shave and cut my pills in order to weigh them, but I noticed a decrease in side effects when I tried grinding them into a fine powder. I had bought a grinder and tried this method for about a week, then lost the cord to the grinder. It was much more difficult to weigh the powder and come out exact and harder to get the powder in the gelatin capsule (and thus the proper dose in my mouth and not all over the place), but I might just need more practice. Losing the cord was a real issue, I looked hard for it, but my fatigue issues and overwhelm caused it to go on the back of my mind for a long time. I'm going to try again and see if it makes a difference.

I'm going to get through Thanksgiving and try getting blood work again next week, but if I can't manage it, I am planning to drop again anyway, probably December 1st.

KayC: getting off venlafaxine 300mg

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